Wood Burns (II)

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Comments

[TCO]

Rot in hell, bailout-Republicans. Go home. We won't vote for you. You can't scare us. You can't play the lesser evil game. Just go...and take the fat fucks like Rove and Lott with you.

http://www.palmettoscoop.com/2009/04/17/barrett-booed-at-greenville-tea-party/

[Danube of Thought]

How does it go down if you add a drop of Vermouth and shake it over ice?

[Ignatz]

We are your go-to site for breaking news on "black liquor".

Actually it appears someone was into the black liquor before you, TM.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

TCO, it's too early to be that drunk.

[Thomas Collins]

Internal Revenue Code provisions being used to benefit companies that were not necessarily the intended beneficiaries? This is news? The news would be that an out of control Congress, which uses the Internal Revenue Code as much or more for industrial policy as for revenue raising, would successfully target a provision to the intended beneficiaries.

Oh, by the way, what about those tax provisons that stick it to people who weren't the intended stickees? The individual alternative minimum tax was enacted with a view towards preventing millionaires from using tax planning (including tax shelters) to zero out their federal income taxes. Now it socks the middle class, and Congress, although providing some relief from time to time, refuses to change permanently those alt min provisions that affect the middle class.

[Jane]

Hey TC,

What's the deal at UMAss?

[ben]

TCO is reintroducing himself to society via Tea Parties. Very nice, but with our luck, CNN will single him out for an interview.

[Thomas Collins]

What about UMass, Jane? What's going on there? I was at UMass Amherst last Thursday to see former Governor Cellucci speak. It was an interesting speech. He spoke at length about his time as Ambassador to Canada, in addition to his term as Governor of Massachusetts. It will have been the last event held in my son's term as Prez of the UMass Amherst Republic Club.

If you are talking about the events involving the Vice President of the UMass Amherst Republican Club, I'd be happy to post on it, but I don't think it would be of much interest to most JOMers. It was a difficult situation for my son to handle as Prez, and I think he handled it well.

[ben]

Daniel Ortega berated the U.S. for fifty minutes while Obama quietly took notes. Meanwhile, the gift Chavez gave Obama was a book critical of US colonialism. Welcome to the United States of Banana Republic.

[Thomas Collins]

Make that "Republican Club" at the end of the first paragraph.

[matt]

what an assclown. To just sit there and listen to these corrupt scumbags denounce American imperialism as if it was 1968 makes me sick to my stomach.

This guy is going to piss of so many people eventually that he won't be electable as dog catcher in 4 years.

[Jane]

TC,

I saw something about it yesterday, the whole anti-republican speech thing has escalated. It sounded almost dangerous.

[glenda]

Jane & TC...and they call us dangerous and extreme? What a world...what a world!

Bravo, to your son, TC!

[Pofarmer]

This guy is going to piss of so many people eventually that he won't be electable as dog catcher in 4 years.

Probably won't have to be elected in 4 years.

[Thomas Collins]

The last speaker of the year is Mike Adams, who is likely to draw protestors.

See LUN for the article on the former Vice President of the UMass Republican Club. My son received a lot of criticism for simply telling the Daily Collegian "no comment" on the charges against the Vice President for violating the restraining order. Many said my son should have gone on to decry violence against women. I'm glad he stuck to his guns and didn't say much. Anything he said could have been twisted by supporters of the accused or opponents of the UMass Amherst College Republican Club.

What happened subsequent to the events mentioned in the article is that my son insisted that the Veep resign. My son was criticized for that by supporters of the Veep. So, he was getting it from both the Veep's supporters and the critics of the UMass Amherst Republican Club. He had a public relations nightmare on his hands as he was looking for a post-graduation job and finishing up his honors thesis (he is Phi Beta Kappa and, assuming he doesn't waste too much of his time watching the NBA playoffs and completes his course work, will be graduating either summa or magna cum laude). The Veep is no longer in office after the Veep's supporters put up a vigorous battle and even threatened to have my son impeached for abuse of power (I am trying to describe this as neutrally as possible, but make no mistake that I believe my son acted fairly towards all parties in this case, and maintained the appropriate balance between the institutional interests of the entity of which he is Prez, and fairness to the accused).

[Thomas Collins]

So, how is year 41 going, glenda? Has the stud been tamed, yet? :-))

[Jane]

Geez TC, imagine the possibility of that headline if he was VP of the democrats, or socialists or even fascist. Instead we would see:

NICE SMART BOY ARRESTED

[Thomas Collins]

Well, Jane, just think back to Bill Clinton, and how accusations against him by Juanita Broaddrick, Kathleen Willey and Paula Jones were handled by MSM. MSM may be in trouble, but it still is substantially able to frame the narrative, even in cases in which, as Howard Fineman might say, the facts don't fit the narrative.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

MSM may be in trouble, but it still is substantially able to frame the narrative, ....

But less so every day.

[matt]

and then Steve Schmidt, McCain's strategist warns about the Republicans becoming the "religious" party. Since churchgoing is still pretty popular in this country, I'm a bit confused about the issue.

Representing God, Country & Family versus Obama, Pelosi, Reid, and Barbara Lee would seem to be a winning proposition to me.

[JM Hanes]

Matt:

I'm not a big Michelle Malkin fan, but she nails down another similar phenomenon:

Before the grass-roots Tea Party movement took them by surprise, Beltway GOP strategists argued fervently that the party’s traditional focus on taxes and spending had become outdated. The re-branders pitched their own expansive ideas to replace the anti-tax-and-spend agenda and inspire new voters. These included Gingrich’s “green conservatism,” David Frum’s proposal to raise carbon taxes, and open-borders Republicans’ plans for alternative forms of amnesty. Newsflash: Eco-zealotry and in-state tuition discounts for illegal aliens didn’t bring out thousands of first-time activists on the streets. Stay-at-home moms weren’t up all night making signs that read “Tax me more, please!”

What resonated on Tax Day were non-partisan calls to roll back pork, hold the line on taxing and spending, end the endless government bailouts, and stop the congressional steamrollers who have pushed through mountains of legislation without deliberation. This is a teachable moment for GOP public relations peddlers in Washington. While they search for the Holy Grail of Re-branding in tony salons and country club conferences, the agenda for 2010 is smacking them in the face. It’s the three T’s, stupid: Too Many Taxes, Trillions in Debt, and Transparency.

Tony salons and and the Holy Grail of re-branding -- this woman can write!

[Gmax]

Malkin can be shrill, but she is dead solid perfect on this matter. "Its the spending, stupid." should be tattooed on all of these beltware strategists foreheads, if it will fit on those pointy little heads.

[Rick Ballard]

"Before the grass-roots Tea Party movement took them by surprise, Beltway GOP strategists" had their heads so far up their... well, neuroproctologists have found a new and very lucrative market among the bien pissants of the Republican dirigiste.

There really are sacks of hammers laying in the back of old tool sheds which could out think these "strategists".

[Gmax]

When I first read the title I thought we were going to get a commercial for Schlitz Malt Liquor!

[glenda]

Oh, TC...41 is fine---the mr. is out of town and the 2nd daughter and grandson and I are eating chinese and watching whatever we want on the tube. We were going to stimulate the economy today, but the weather has been scary stormy! Worst storms since Hurricane Ike!

Tell your son to be strong---we need good young leadership in the GOP; soon!!

[Thomas Collins]

OK, glenda, enjoy that Chinese food. I like hot and sour soup and shrimp with lobster sauce. Of course, never having been to China, I have no idea whether that is real Chinese food, but I enjoy it anyway!

I hope the storms calm down, both for your sake and the economy's sake, and that you get to do some shopping this weekend.

I'll tell my son that you're behind him. This weekend, he is interviewing for a teaching job in Louisiana. He called me from a Motel 6 last night and said in amazement that the room fee was only 38 dollars. I forget at times how expensive it is to live in Massachusetts.

[glenda]

TC...
Louisiana needs some good teachers. I really love to visit there as much as I can.
The food is fabulous and the people are kind(conservatism growing and strong, there).
What city is he in?

[RichatUF]

JM Hanes (from earlier today)-

The re-branders pitched their own expansive ideas to replace the anti-tax-and-spend agenda and inspire new voters. These included Gingrich’s “green conservatism,” David Frum’s proposal to raise carbon taxes, and open-borders Republicans’ plans for alternative forms of amnesty.

Wow, if the current crop of "strategists" in the GOP get their way, they'll be in permanent minority status much like the Tories over in the UK.

[PD]

When I hear people talk about the Republican party and how they think it needed to be "branded," I want to throw up.

It's not about "brand," it's about principles. Our essential liberties and freedoms are not a matter of "brand."

[JM Hanes]

We should be so lucky, Rich! Assuming we're talking about a minority of Frumm & Brooks et al., of course.

[bad]

Check this out PD. It's Meghan McCain.

“There are those who think we can win the White House and Congress back by being ‘more’ conservative. Worse, there are those who think we can win by changing nothing at all about what our party has become. They just want to wait for the other side to be perceived as worse than us. I think we’re seeing a war brewing in the Republican party, but it is not between us and Democrats. It is not between us and liberals. It is between the future and the past. I believe most people are ready to move on to that future… I am concerned about the environment. I love to wear black. I think government is best when it stays out of people’s lives and business as much as possible. I love punk rock. I believe in a strong national defense. I have a tattoo. I believe government should always be efficient and accountable. I have lots of gay friends. And yes, I am a Republican.”

Here's a new brand.

[Stephanie]

I'd like to brand her. Big honking "L" (Loser) on her forehead.

She already has a tattoo, so it will up her "street cred" and as she says, she is all about the cred... principles, not so much.

[bad]

She uses I almost as much as O.

[Stephanie]

What is it about people that do that, Bad?

Shallow, check.
Clueless, check.
Self-Absorbed, check.

Like anyone gives two sh*ts about what they are up to, want to do, have done, believe in (who do they think they are, Sean Penn)... and they are absolutely the worst people for reading body language... you give them "go away" language, and they just ignore it.

Add one more L to the Meagan list.... Lame, as in Look At Me Everybody!!!!

Countdown to her founding a "Conservative" version of Code Pink. Just to be all trendy and all...

[bad]

I'm still trying to figure out what wearing black, having a tattoo and gay friends, listening to punk music and being concerned about the environment have to do with her "I'm a republican" pronouncement.

Is she into stereotypes? So sad in one so young...

[Stephanie]

Just establishing her "street cred." Her tweets, as I've seen them relayed on some sites, are all about rebranding the party to make it more appealing to the younger crowd. She fancies herself as the pied piper leading the youngsters to the party cause she is "way cool."

Gag. Me. With. A. Spoon. (inserts finger in mouth and makes barfing motions)

Like. Oh. my. God. Wigerals.... (flounces off with a hair flip for effect)

[daddy]

Meghan McCain's juvenile infatuation with what is fadish, trendy, and politically cool among young tuned in hipsters reminds me of something I posted on Jane's blog a few months back:

Jane, Concerning perceptions of a Politician’s style and coolness amongst the media and mass populations:

Last week I finished Walter Isaacson’s “Einstein”. Einstein had moved to Princeton in 1933 and remained there until his death in 1955. During the 30’s, he was world famous, beloved, quirky and kind. To my surprise, in a section called Prewar Politics, the author writes the following on page 445.
“A survey of incoming freshmen in 1938 produced a result that is now astonishing, and should have been back then as well; Adolf Hitler polled highest as the “greatest living person.” Albert Einstein was second.”
This passage had a footnote which I followed to the back of the book. Here is the footnote:
“Hitler Is ‘Greatest’ in Princton Poll: Freshmen Put Einstein Second and Chamberlain Third,” New York Times, Nov 28, 1939. The story reports that this was for the second year in a row.”

Simply food for thought and a possible worthwhile rejoinder when discussion turns to the perceptions held by our best and our brightest of the ‘coolest’ Politician of the day."

In Meghan's case, as in so much of our modern society I unfortunately think this applies.

[Stephanie]

What is funny is that all of her yakking about tats and wearing black and the other stuff establishes her firmly as a follower not a leader and much like her dad, a reactionary personality without principles. If it will garner approval or votes, then she is on that bandwagon.

All hat, no cattle...

[Elliott]

daddy,

You are a font of great information. Thank you for sharing with us. Here is a preview of the Times' report.

[Stephanie]

Fortunately, someone must have picked the wrong weekend to quit sniffing glue...

[The Obama administration has decided "with regret" to boycott a U.N. conference on racism next week over objectionable language in the meeting's final document that could single out Israel for criticism and restrict free speech, the State Department said Saturday.]

LUN

[daddy]

Stephanie,

"What is funny is that all of her yakking about tats and wearing black and the other stuff establishes her firmly as a follower not a leader..."

I could have copied the whole thing but you are so absolutely on the money in just that bit of your comment that I stopped right there.

Elliott,

Thanks much for posting that. Wonder what page of the paper they would post a similar article today?

[JM Hanes]

Good Morning, Elliott!

[Jane]

JMH - How odd to see you here at this hour!

[clarice]

Good morning,JOM!

[Caro]

Meghan would be a better person if she had also joined the Navy.

[Caro]

And good morning to all you JOMers. I woke up in NYC this morning. There are 16 wireless networks popping up and four are not locked.

Daddy, what an interesting (and frightening) poll you have told us about.

[clarice]

Isn't it, Daddy why not blog that to AT?editoratamericanthinker.com

[centralcal]

Good morning everyone. Wow, daddy, that was very interesting info you posted.

I think Megan McCain is to the RINO right, what Cindy Sheehan was to the left.

Normal people just see them both as sad and bonkers.

[PD]

Is she into stereotypes?

Seems to me she's trying to say, "I don't fit into the usual (unnamed) stereotypes of what a Republican is, yet I'm a Republican." The implied subtext being that non-Republicans should give some thought to the possibility that they too consider becoming Republicans. I suspect that accounts for the weird mix of policy-related statements with personal-quirk statements.

[Jane]

Someone should muzzle Peggy Noonan.

[Rick Ballard]

Meghan is precisely the variety of fruit that a huge ego tree would be expected to produce.

Daddy,

Thanks for the report on the NYT poll of young morons going through the credentialing process in 1938. It is quite easy (due to the fog, smoke and mirrors generated by the "progressives" at the NYT) to 'forget' that Il Duce and Mein Fuehrer were simply shoots from the same rotten tree which gave us the protofascist Wilson, with his dedication to the same scientistic racism which allowed Margaret Sanger to fire up the baby killing machine still so deeply loved by the current (D)irty Socialist inhabiting 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. Hitler remained popular with the credentialed moron class until his unfortunate tiff with his cousin, Uncle Joe, in June of 1941.

It's fascinating that the pig ignorance displayed by our credentialed morons, from the Fabian Wilson straight through those promoting the "fashionable" concept of anthropogenic global warming today has always been supported by a level of "scientism" which is risibly separated from actual science at the root.

If you can't 'show your work', it ain't science.

[Captain Hate]

I think Megan McCain is to the RINO right, what Cindy Sheehan was to the left.

Normal people just see them both as sad and bonkers.

Hard to say how "normal people" really see them because you have to take into account of how the media frames it (and like it or not, they're still how most normal people view them). In Sheehan's case you had a shallow ditz who was presented sympathetically as giving credence to everything the left was saying while in bonbon girl you have a shallow ditz being presented sympathetically against the evil extremists of the right.

[clarice]

Daddy, since you seem to have vanished, I'll pass your magnificant post on--more people should see it.

[centralcal]

Agreed, Captain Hate. But the media uses and discards. Seeing much of Sheehan lately? Megan doesn't have much of a following does she (media, excluded)?

[Thomas Collins]

Shreveport, glenda. He was told he would hear within 7-10 days if he got the offer.

I usually am pretty good about preparing myself internally for future happenings in my life. I typically can map out my reactions. But I find that I was totally unprepared for my internal state regarding my adult children's comings and goings, successes and failures. I thought that as they grew up, I could achieve some internal emotional distance about them (which I think is a necessary part of "letting them go"). Instead, I find it more difficult than when they were youngsters. I now realize my mistake: when they were youngsters, they were always in close physical proximity, so that when something went wrong, I was there to do whatever had to be done, even if what had to be done was to tell them they messed up and apply the appropriate punishment. Now, it's all out of my hands. Of course, ultimately, it always was out of my hands and in God's hands.

[Captain Hate]

But the media uses and discards. Seeing much of Sheehan lately?

You're quite correct in a sad kind of way; it's really a disgrace how such an obviously unbalanced person was used strictly to advance a transparent agenda. If only those bottom-feeders had an ability to critically examine their own actions based on a reasonably comprehensive code of ethics.

Yeah right; I can't believe I typed that.

[Gmax]

If you were Einstein how would you have liked to lumped in with the likes of Hitler ( the essence of Evil) and Chamberlain ( Appeaser extraordinaire )? Not likely to be company that would be picked for a dinner party by the smartest man alive. How is it that the best and brightest thought it so? Just think what Hitler and Chamberlain might have accomplished with Twitter to aid them!

[JM Hanes]

PD:

That was basically my reaction too. I know how Meghan feels myself. I would just put it a little differently: I'm not a conservative, I'm a Republican from the Republican wing of the Republican party. I don't think her personal remarks were quirky or narcissistic, I think she was just saying I don't fit the profile/stereotype.

I don't disagree with her premise either. How many times have we heard the term RINO? How many times does it take to realize that there are, in fact, divisions in the Republican party? Over the past decade, the terms Conservative and Republican have become so conflated that people & press use them almost interchangeably. That trend simply obscures the fact that the Republican party is a coalition of social, fiscal and political conservatives. I happen to be a social liberal, which is where most of my disagreements with people on this board have come. I'm also not the only social liberal here, but like Meghan, that certainly doesn't even begin to make any of us a good fit on the Democratic side of the political divide, and it certainly doesn't make us RINOs.

I admire and respect Ronald Reagan, but I don't think his deification has been particularly helpful politically. It's difficult to argue that conservatives have not pushed pretty hard to sideline Republicans like Rudy Giuliani and Christie Todd Whitman -- quite brutally in Whitman's case. Like Meghan, that strikes me as a form of cutting off your nose to spite your face and is mostly a function of how you order your conservative priorities. I also don't see John McCain's loss as anything close to a confirmation that we need to return to our putatively conservative roots. He was sui generis, and I had to hold my nose as tightly as anyone to cast my vote. Ironically, in the runup to the nomination, I was one of his severest critics, having long since vowed that he would never, ever, get my vote.

If Meghan McCain can help bring more of her generational peers into the Republican fold, more power to her! We're going to need that demographic in our coalition. If we don't go after it now, we won't get it when we really need it down the road. She is speaking to their concerns, and it behooves us to listen and to cheer her on, not belittle her -- whether or not we're completely on board with her personal vision of a Republican future. She could conceivably be the best thing that ever happened to Republican groups on liberal college campuses which are, as almost everyone on this side of the divide relentlessly points out, one of the primary political battlegrounds where we are demonstrably losing the long term fight.

[MayBee]

Oh, man, JMH. Here comes my bi-yearly proposal of marriage to you.

I was at a GLAAD event last night, and so many thoughts such as this were churning through my mind. Referebces ti Barack Obama got gigantic applause, but then so did a mention of Steve Schmidt's plea for Republicans to consider gay marriage.

I don't expect everyone to agree with me on this, but I just sat there wondering how it has come to this- that all of these people feel completely ostracized from the current Republican party when they will be affected by the crazy spending and horrible foreign policy as everybody else.

[MayBee]

whoa!
References to

[JM Hanes]

We were clearly made for each other, MayBee!

Alas, as usual, I seem to have dropped this in at the end of thread after everyone else (save thee and me) has moved on. I've been similarly saddened by the abysmal treatment of Log Cabin Republicans when their fiscal and political hearts are smack dab in the middle of conservative territory. At a pre-election Republican confab in Greensboro, they had to put up their booth outside on the sidewalk because they were refused any floor space inside! Truly jaw dropping.

[Jane]

If Meghan McCain can help bring more of her generational peers into the Republican fold, more power to her!

That was exactly my thought. Thank you for saying it so I don't have to.

[Daddy]

MayBee, JMH and Jane,

I absolutely adore your gal's toughness of character and independence of thought. Can I get in on this group marriage thingy?

[centralcal]

JMH, MayBee, Jane (and Daddy?):

One of the nicer discoveries during the long battle between Hillary and Barack, was the Hillbuzz website.

In their own words, they illuminate some of the points you have been making.

As to Ms. McCain, I just don't care for her much (care even less for her Dad). She needs to develop a following if she wants to be effective in broadening the Republican party. So far, her only fans seem to be the Liberal media (and Righty bloggers opining on her).

[JM Hanes]

Well, you're certainly a man after my own heart, Daddy! I think you'd have to clone yourself a couple of times to make it work though. OTOH, do you have a jump seat in your cockpit?

[JM Hanes]

centralcal:

I'm not sure how she could develop a following, if the liberal media weren't giving her air time, so that doesn't really bother me. Maybe Jane could wrangle a Friday morning interview! Righty bloggers would probably complain that Meghan was just phoning it in...

Thanks for reminding me about Hillbuzz. I don't know why it never made it into my bookmarks. It's really nice to think there's a Dem site out there that's not mindlessly flaming Republicans -- something that is really worth supporting.

[glenda]

Oh, TC..you sound well-prepared, and so do your children. Life does happen when we just settle into that easy chair, it seems.
Just keep praying and have faith, as will I.

daddy, that Einstein mention was eye-opening. Did he further opine about facism?
I believe Einstein was autistic(Asperger's)-it just wasn't a label in the early/mid 20th century. I hope studying Einstein will help children like my grandson. Actually, I hope anything will lead to a cause/cure!

Jane, JMH, Maybee...brilliant thoughts! How can anyone be against love? The only thing we take with us when we die is love and the good things we have done--(the night I had my M.I. accompanied by sudden cardiac death is a whole other story)--labels and biases are left behind. Even after living through that epiphany, I still need to remind myself to be more tolerant, and as my Dad says--"less bossy".

[JM Hanes]

glenda:

" I still need to remind myself to be more tolerant, and as my Dad says--"less bossy""

LOL. I'm considerably less bossy in real life than I am on the web. In fact, I'm a real failure as a boss, because I don't boss at all, and find it hard to delegate much of anything but dusting up and lawn mowing. Employees love me, of course, because I can hardly bring myself to take them to task for almost anything. In fact, I gravitated to the web because it was one of the few places I felt like I could flat out speak my mind -- and argue with people instead of always being the intermediary smoothing the waters. There was a long dry spell while my kids were young when my only intellectual outlet was serving on one board that actually wanted me for my brain, not my hostess skilz. When the internet finally came along it was a major Wow! With night people! All over the world!

[clarice]

TC:"But I find that I was totally unprepared for my internal state regarding my adult children's comings and goings, successes and failures."

You can say that again. And I'd add they will never know it until their turn of the wheel makes them parents of young adults.

The notion that the Republican party is hostile to gays must come from somewhere but i can tell you in D.C. a large part of the Republican inside the beltway movers and shakers are--like the rest of the city--gay.

[clarice]

Hmm--I want to make myself clearer than I did..I meant that a large part of these groups are like a large part of D.C.--gay.We have the greatest percentage of gays in the country.

[Daddy]

Glenda,

"daddy, that Einstein mention was eye-opening. Did he further opine about facism?"

Yes M'am he did. The book was a good read, (though not as good as Isaacson's wonderful biography of Ben Franklin), but the author did a good job of showing how slowly Einstein morphed from a complete Pacifist to a military realist, due to the encroaching dangers of Hitler's Nazism, Stalin's Sociaism, Musolini's Fascism, and any other liberty strangling 'ism' one could name. I read it now about 4 months back, but if I recall correctly Einstein was appalled at that poll of incoming freshman, and what with his already dreadful dealings with those 'ism's in Europe, and causing him to flee to America, it must have stunned him how folks could be so blind to such encroaching threats. I am very glad finding that poll has seemed to strike a chord amongst us today, because we desperately need such examples to point to of the sort of cliquish, addled group-think that so frightened Einstein.

[clarice]

It was a fabulous catch,Daddy..and certainly food for thought.

[glenda]

daddy & clarice...

Can I hear an amen? Hallelujah!
When I finally lay my head on the pillow at night, I pray that there ARE more of us, than the Garafolo/Olbermann/any Chicago politician/named Murtha/writer of DHS crapola/liberal atheist professor with tenure....uh,oh; more patience and tolerance. (♥)♥

and more JOM!!!

[clarice]

I just got an email from someone who read Daddy's bit on the poll and he loved it and recommended a book by Larry Johnson called "Intellectuals" which explains why they never should be near the levers of power.

[clarice]

JMH--I was there first! I think we should all take a flight somewhere with Daddy at the helm. (Helm? Do you call that a helm when the piloting is in the sky?) Well. Whatever.

[Daddy]

Clarice,

Thank you for your efforts. I don't yet personally feel comfortable posting at AT because I am aware of what areas I need to know more about but currently don't. I'm certainly getting better, because JOM stimulates me to strive to learn more about local history or politics or whatever, so I don't come across as moronic. I'm also limited in that I'm gone so much. Anyhow, thank you for doing so much of the heavy lifting. And are you and Glenda into that group marriage thingy as well?

[bad]

I don't see anti-gay bias in any one group. It's in individuals.

I know plenty of tatted and/or pierced and/or gay and/or black-wearing political conservatives who like many different genres of music, including punk. Perhaps Meghan needs to get out more if she thinks those individuals are not a part of the Republican party.

As to her ability to draw youth to the table, only time will tell. The youth in my sphere refer to her as "bitter" and therefore, someone to be avoided. Something to do with Facebook or MySpace, etc.

[jimmyk]

I admire and respect Ronald Reagan, but I don't think his deification has been particularly helpful politically.

You seem to be lumping Reagan in with the Christian right, which is a misunderstanding. The reason for Reagan's "deification", as you put it, is precisely because he was able to bridge the gap between the Christian right and the more libertarian wing of the party by focusing on what united them rather than divided them.

In any case, the notion that you can expand the Republican party by alienating the right wing of the party is dubious, as this election demonstrated. The people who care a lot about keeping abortion legal and legalizing gay marriage are always going to vote Democrat 90-to-10, and Republicans should not fall for the bait. The better strategy for the Republicans is to focus on economics and national security, because this will unite the whole spectrum from center to right. On the polarizing issues the party should stake out central positions: Against gay "marriage" but willing to compromise on civil unions, against an outright Federal ban on abortions but favoring restrictions.

[bad]

jimmyk, fiscal responsibility and national security are what I will vote for every time.

[JM Hanes]

jimmyk:

"You seem to be lumping Reagan in with the Christian right, which is a misunderstanding."

I'm not sure how I gave that impression, because I don't particularly associate him with the issues that animate the Christian/Social right -- which I think have assumed a dramatically more prominent position in the Republican platform since then.

It think it's a little bizarre how often conservatives take credit for losing Republican elections.

[JM Hanes]

jimmyk

Meant to say that I do agree about focusing on the issues which unite us.

[Appalled]

jimmyk:

A better compromise on gay marriage is not civil unions (marriage that dare not speak its name?), but a commitment to accept legislative or ballot initiative impositions of gay marriage (should they happen), but implacable opposition to the judicial imposition of it.

[boris]

"bizarre how often conservatives take credit for losing Republican elections"

If you and Meg are going to blame them for losing Republican elections you shouldn't be surprised.

[cathyf]

I have often wondered how WWII would have worked out if Hitler had not been an anti-semite. Imagine all of those good German jews -- many of them highly sympathetic to socialism -- working in the army and the industries. Imagine no SS and all of those thugs instead fighting the Allies.

Imagine Fermi staying in Italy and working for Musselini rather than coming to the US because Laura Fermi was jewish. Imagine Einstein staying neutral in neutral Switzerland. They would have for sure gotten the atomic bomb before us.

One of the biggest problem with our dopey education system is that for a huge number of Americans Hitler is equal to the Holocaust, and all the rest of fascism is not in the slightest bit discredited in their minds.

[boris]

"civil unions (marriage that dare not speak its name?)"

So you imply a "gay taint" to civil union rather than a "natural preference" for the traditional form.

Doesn't that make it hard to claim that eliminating the traditional form and renaming civil union as "marriage" is a no harm no foul operation?

[Captain Hate]

The notion that the Republican party is hostile to gays must come from somewhere

Where would something like that come from?

[Porchlight]

I don't enjoy being lectured by Meghan McCain on what the Republican party ought to be or do. Her way is for losers (obviously). Sarah Palin could have been 100% pro gay marriage and she would still have been 100% vilified and despised by Dems and the media. The fissures of the culture wars go way, way deeper than whatever tint of lipgloss Meghan McCain wants to use to attempt to smooth over the cracks. I am not going to don a hair shirt and allow the left to paint me as a cretin just because Meghan McCain wants more punk rockers in the GOP (and for the record I happen to have been listening to punk rock almost as long as she's been alive).

[Appalled]

boris:

I'm not sure what you are asking me. I don't believe in creating another option to the question: single or married. It's actually as simple as that.

[clarice]

I don't know about glenda. daddy, but I'm a sucker for a guy in uniform.

cathyf, true enough but why is that different than any other bit of knowledge about history we know kids should be getting and are not.

Have you looked at the kind of history books that pass muster by school boards and publishers lately? Ridiculous tidbits of unhomogenized factoids and p.c. ness.

[jimmyk]

I'm not sure how I gave that impression, because I don't particularly associate him with the issues that animate the Christian/Social right

When you said:

I admire and respect Ronald Reagan, but I don't think his deification has been particularly helpful politically. It's difficult to argue that conservatives have not pushed pretty hard to sideline Republicans like Rudy Giuliani and Christie Todd Whitman

you seemed to be associating the deification of Reagan with the faction of the party that is hostile to Giuliani types. Yet Reagan was arguably much like Giuliani: A former Democrat who, even as a Republican, had a pro-choice record, and whose conservatism was focused on economic and national security issues. So what exactly is your beef with the deification of Reagan?

[Jane]

Daddy,

I'll marry you tomorrow but you really can't expect me to put up with 5 other wives - well unless of course I can keep Mark ("Jane won") Karl (the magnificent bastard) and the others....

On second thought it sounds like the perfect arrangement!

The notion that the Republican party is hostile to gays must come from somewhere

I assume it comes from social conservatives.

When I first hired Amy I saw her as a way to expand my market, which is pretty much how I always view that stuff. I came into the employment force when companies were just starting to hire women - by government mandate. I always thought that those who rebelled were limiting their market and that seemed oh so stupid to me. Women run businesses and need lawyers and so do gay people.

Gays are pretty successful as a group, have money and for the most part seem to be capitalists. They are a perfect fit for the republican party.

[JM Hanes]

Jimmyk:

The deification part.

[jimmyk]

Appalled-
A better compromise on gay marriage

I agree with that in part. I was thinking of saying something similar about abortion--let state legislatures decide rather than judges. But the definition of marriage is something that has all sorts of implications for Federal policy--Social Security benefits, income taxes, and so forth. So I don't think Republicans can avoid taking a stand. They could advocate letting state legislatures decide about civil unions, but insist that "marriage" (as far as the tax code is concerned) is between a man and a woman.

[bad]

For those who missed Michael Barone on Friday, it's LUN. He writes of TARP, Chrysler, UAW and Steve Rattner. Baraone's pretty words do not paint a pretty picture.

[Ignatz]

I just got an email from someone who read Daddy's bit on the poll and he loved it and recommended a book by Larry Johnson called "Intellectuals" which explains why they never should be near the levers of power.

Clarice, I love you, but please go wash your mouth out with soap.
The Intellectuals was written by the great Paul Johnson, not the semi lunatic Larry.

bizarre how often conservatives take credit for losing Republican elections"

It's especially bizarre because it's mushy moderates like Bush I, Dole and McCain who actually lose them.

[clarice]

Sorry--Yipes *smacking palm to forehead****

[boris]

I don't believe in creating another option to the question: single or married.

Really? But eliminating traditional marriage and renaming civil union as "new marriage" ... you can believe in that.

There was a compromise proposed that essentially would have allowed both forms to be "marriage" and keep the traditional form as a religious exception. Nope. Traditional form's gotta go. It really isn't about the word.

[glenda]

daddy...any group that includes jane, JMH, Maybee and Clarice...I'm in!!!

[JM Hanes]

Ignatz:

"It's especially bizarre because it's mushy moderates like Bush I, Dole and McCain who actually lose them."

You'd have thought so, wouldn't you? I'd have said Bush I lost it all on his own, myself, but within days of the election, there was Ralph Reed, all over the tube, claiming Bush I lost because he neglected his conservative base. Of course, there were plenty of complaints about how mushy GWBush was too. I think he'd only been around a year or so, when the New York Times announced they were hiring someone to cover conservative fractures in the GOP.

[Rick Ballard]

"Her way is for losers (obviously)."

The fact that "My Friend" McCain lost to a dirty socialist after kissing every butt in sight might have tipped her off. If she had a synapse that actually fired.

Putting out salt and fodder for the Muddle three years out is a waste. There is no way to guess what will be capturing what passes for their minds in 2012.