Anonymous Sources Versus Reality

Zachary Roth of Josh Marshall's TPMuckrakers delivers a newsbreak described as yet another reason to doubt the accuracy of the CIA report on who was briefed when on enhanced interrogation techniques:

Almost every briefing described in the document -- including the September 2002 Pelosi briefing that's directly at issue -- refers to "EITs," or enhanced interrogation techniques, as a subject that was discussed. But according to a former intelligence professional who has participated in such briefings, that term wasn't used until at least 2006.

Uh huh.  Then do my tired eyes deceive?  Here in the opening sentence of the May 30 2005 OLC memo to CIA Counsel John Rizzo I see this:

You have asked us to address whether certain "enhanced interrogation techniques"...

As if by eerie coincidence the phrase also appears in the May 10, 2005 memo.

Well.  I can't find the phrase in the 2002 memo and it may well have not been in vogue when Ms. Pelosi was briefed, but I am skeptical of this 2006 dating on offer from the Muckrakers.

MORE:  No usage of "enhanced interrogation techniques" appears in the Times prior to 2006; maybe that was what the former intelligence professional had in mind.

WHATEVER:  OK, the TPM people are now offering 2004 as the correct year, not 2006.  Their source?  A clever Nexis search and an AP story.  Top shelf.

Comments

[Semanticleo]

You got to be kidding....

Not sure how vital it is that Josh got the date wrong, but I doubt that's the salient point of the issue, just the salient point of Maguire's deflection.

What did I say about commentary on typos in the down thread? Same smell,,,,

[matt]

another liberal meme. Focus on one minor point, legitimate or not, to try and refute the underlying argument. Sophistry at its finest.

These guys must have spent countless hours arguing the fine points of Chairman Mao's little red book while in college."When is the Marxist Leninist dialectic in contradiction with Chairman Mao's philosophy of the party moving through the proletariat like fish in the sea, comrade?...why never, of course". It was bullshit 30 years ago and remains so.

[clarice]

Let me guess the person described here--"But according to a former intelligence professional "--is c member of VIPS.

Whether they called it EIT or netti training, it is inconceivable to me that the full operational details were kept from Congress. The entire point of the many briefings given Congress during the Bush Administration was to be (ahem) TRANSPARENT about what they wewr3e doing, for if the Administration were not transparent Congressional approval would mean nothing.

[fdcol63]

EIT's (Enhanced Interrogation Techniques), HIT's (Harsh Interrogation Techniques), torture, or whatever euphamism/nomenclature you want to use.

Who Cares?

Pour water down their nostrils until they gag, puke, think they're gonna die, fear God, and then cough up some intelligence.

Whatever. Nancy knew, said nothing for years, then lied to cover her skanky botox-filled butt.

[Danube of Thought]

And if I said that the Wright Brothers took credit for inventing the "airplane," would I be wrong because at the time it was called an "aeroplane?"

[Semanticleo]

" was to be (ahem) TRANSPARENT"

>chuckle. I would choke too, if I were you Clarice. Try some baking soda in water to quash the reflux.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Not sure how vital it is that Josh got the date wrong,...

Well, since he's using the notion that the term wasn't used before 2006, and Tom (with no particular time spent on the search clerly) found two such uses in 2005, it's germane because

(1) it's a direct refutation of Marshall's point, proving his argument to be ill-founded, and

(2) it shows Marshall isn't doing a lot of research or fact checking himself, calling into question his general procedures for these things.

So, it shows that in this local case he's wrong, and calls his more global reliability into question.

Other than that, I guess it's not particularly vital.

[Elliott]

"EIT, phone Rahm."

[Semanticleo]

"I guess it's not particularly vital."

So, it's kinda' like a typo?

[fdcol63]

From what I could tell, the date issue was the core of Josh's argument.

As such, proving that this critical element is wrong completely undercuts his argument.

But such things don't mean much to those who quibble in semantics.

[clarice]

So Marshall runs with anonymously sourced crap facts and Mo Dowd plagiarizes from Marshall...and we are expected to pay for such information?

[Semanticleo]

Look, you wingers just don't understand: it doesn't matter if tpm is completely wrong about the dates when the term was used.

The point is, they're right about the dates when the term was used and you're all wrong.

Like usual.

[Neo]

$80M to relocate 240 detainees. That’s about 330,000 each. Are they each getting their very own ride in Air Force One over New York City for a photo op, on their way to Club Fed?

[fdcol63]

I'm sure the cost includes a one-night stay in the Lincoln Bedroom with Michelle O. LOL

[Elliott]

I don't think Marshall himself is the author. The correction now posted is very funny (unintentionally, of course).

[syn]

What angers me the most is that my right to live a secured and defended nation is being castrated by a woman, whose face is stretch so tight that her eye balls are popping out of her skull, every time she attacks our intelligence agents who are risking their lives defending the nation which allows the right for the female to exterminate babies.

I admit I am beginning to despise my gender for the weak sister She has become.

And I don't want to hear any lectures from Feminists and how wonderful they believes themselves to be; I am woman hear me roar 47 years of the weak sisterhood and now I hate with every fiber of my being anything remotely associated with Feminists!

An Amazonian woman would cut off her right breast to fight, Nancy Pelosi and her brigade of feminist whores stuffs theirs with plastic-fantastic silicone.

I am furious what She is doing and I will not apologize, so don't ask.

[Semanticleo]

I have a pair of Maggie's drawers I stole from her dresser. Now that she's gone, it's all I have to sniff.

[Semanticleo]

I think you forgot to change the name, PUKe.

[Semanticleo]

I told you I didn't need to take my medication every day.

My imaginary son called me from Iraq and told me it was okay to skip Tuesdays.

[matt]

you know, sematicleo, you use the term right winger far too much. Exactly what is wrong with having strong ethics and morals, fiscal responsibility, and a sense of duty? Conservatives tend to be the ones who pay their bills on time and go to church and give to charity. Is there something wrong with this? If so, please tell us.

I had 6 uncles and a father who fought real right wingers. What still astounds me the most is that if you compare a left winger and a Nazi, there' not much real difference. The antisemitism is there, the lack of respect for life is there, the statism is there, the blind obedience of authority is there. The evil is there. You can call us any names you want, but understand that your argument is built on a very weak foundation.

[jwest]

I could break a lot of news from my confidential sources…….if you promise you won’t check anything.

It’s must be so much easier being a liberal.

[Rick Ballard]

"It’s must be so much easier being a liberal."

Now, maybe. Back before zippers and Velcro they spent the better part of the day trying to get dressed.

[verner]

Yeah SYN! You go GIRL!!!

[MayBee]

It shows how reliable some of these former Intelligence professionals are, doesn't it?

It was probably Ray McGovern anyway.

[verner]

Did it ever occur to the Ivy educated geniuses that the term EIT was used because the memo in question was written in 2009! DUH.

Who said a rose by any name would still smell as sweet? Uh Huh.

[Jim,MtnViewCA,USA]

Is it OK to occasionally comment off-topic?
Just had to share this with someone....was reading a glowing report on home building yesterday and compared then and now.

the BAD OLD Bush days:
"Sentiment among U.S. home builders slid in June [2007] to the lowest level in more than 16 years... the National Association of Home Builders said Monday.
[The index] fell ... to 28 in June"
wow! 28. pretty bad.

moving fwd into the idyllic Obama days:
"U.S. homebuilder sentiment jumped to its highest level in eight months in May...supporting views that the three-year housing slump might be close to an end...The National Association of Home Builders/Wells Fargo Housing Market Index rose to 16."
wow. 16. relief!

The bottom line:
"Readings below 50 mean more builders view market conditions as poor rather than favorable."

Links:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/US-home-builder-sentiment-rb-15279619.htm l?sec=topStories&pos=main&asset=&ccode=

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/housing/2007-06-18-home-builder-sentiment_N.htm

[Appalled]

Even if the TPM folks had gotten their dates right, they would still be talking about a summary document compiled from the original materials well after 2002/3. It would make sense that a CIA compiler, probably working in 2006 (or even 2008-9) would use the current acronym, rather than "Nancy Pelosi briefed on stress positions, belly slaps, and the proper placement of bugs."

You really do need the original meeting document to resolve this controversy. And that thing is never going to appear.

[verner]

Appalled, let's release the docs Hoekstra is demanding and we'll know.

I suspect there is one, and only one reason Panetta is not doing so. He is giving Pelosi one last chance to shut her trap and let this all go away. Indeed, he has practically put it in 5X20 Neon letters.

[Rick Ballard]

"Is it OK to occasionally comment off-topic?"

No. No one on this board ever makes an off topic comment.

Nice catch on the agitprop flimflam on yesterdays "green shoot". I wonder if SBW can get into the AP archives and find articles by a single propagandist demonstrating the same doublespeak? SBW - check Martin Crutsinger, if you can do so. He has a nice mastery of the genre.

[Enlightened]

"the salient point of the issue"

Oh please. Pelosi hasn't touched a salient point in a decade.

Funny how liberals keep moving those goal posts....EIT's were called harsh techniques or rough techniques, or counter resistant strategy or whatever the hell was the feel good term of the day....Nancy never heard those either - just like Bambi never heard a word of the Rev. Wright's sermons for 20 years....

Here's what they called it Nov 2002:

Dec 2002 Rumsfeld memo
Page 5
JTF 170-J2
c) Category III
3) "use of wet towel and dripping water to induce the misperception of suffocation"

Hi All! Still working, although a new department so very limited free time...

[Enlightened]

Hah....these liberals are so funny. Their favorite wingnut - Hitler - and his Gestapo coined EIT - long before 2002.

But of course the CIA never knew about that, so therefore saying it in 2009 is not the same as knowing about it in 1940???

I love it - keep it up Cleo, you morons are still right on target.

[Rick Ballard]

Verner,

Panetta cannot "know" that all copies of the vidotapes made of the interrogations were destroyed. I'd be rather unsurprised to find out that the Gang of Four had seen a waterboarding or six on tape - with a notation of the viewing included in the memo prepared by the briefers.

That would make a fine finish to Madame Botox - hopefully not too soon though.

[Molon Labe]

What a ridiculous argument. The CIA memo was a retrospective summary of the briefings. Of course they would use current lingo in describing the subject matter discussed.

[PeterUK]

Septic Dear,You're getting the hallucinations again aren't you.I haven'nt posted on this thread.
BTW Tape worm,it's Mr Puke to you.

[Cecil Turner]

The Times broke the story in 2005 about the CIA IG calling the techniques a violation of the CAT treaty in 2004. No plausible contention can be made the term wasn't in use before then. According to ABC News, their CIA sources were using the term much earlier:

The CIA sources described a list of six "Enhanced Interrogation Techniques" instituted in mid-March 2002 and used, they said, on a dozen top al Qaeda targets incarcerated in isolation at secret locations on military bases in regions from Asia to Eastern Europe. [emphasis added]

In both this and the current case, they're referring to long-past events, and may well have updated the terminology, but it's obvious they've been doing that at least three years. So it's hard to see anything compelling in the TPM claim, even if you discount the implication here that the term was in use in early 2002.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

So, it's kinda' like a typo?

No.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

it doesn't matter if tpm is completely wrong about the dates when the term was used.

The point is, they're right about the dates when the term was used.

That's gotta be a new record.

[Danube of Thought]

I would say this one has been pretty thoroughly blown out of the water.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Nice catch on the agitprop flimflam on yesterdays "green shoot"

Oh, come on, guys. If you don't want to use phrases like "first derivative", how about "it's an improvement if it gets better, even if it's really bad."

[narciso]

I guess when you call yourself Talking Points Memo, well then truth is not a prerequisite, is it,Propaganda Points is probably a better name for his site. He did seem to have something with Cunningham and Dusty Foggo, but much of the other
conjecture regarding the Us attorneys firing; what ever did happen to Iglesias by the way, really was overblown, just more chaff being disbursed to hobble our
intelligence establishment. Which I suppose is the point. McGovern's been out of the business for the last 19 years or so, of course his less frantic rants were published without fail in the Miami Herald along with crazy former NSA man and Chavez
pen pal, Wayne Madsen, they have noeditorial
judgement over here, In the LUN, on a totally unrelated topic, the FEC threw out the complaint generated by CREW, the left's Judicial Watch, over certain wardrobe items from last December.

[Semanticleo]

Fake, but accurate. TMP can be wrong about the dates but his narrative is right.

Cheney is the Torturer-in-Chief and yer wingnutters will agree or yer'll find yerself listening to Obama speeches all day in the re-education camps.

[Danube of Thought]

Arnold basked in the Rose Garden while we in California went to the polls today. They don't close until 2000 PDT, so you in the East will probably have to wait until morning. Here's what's at stake"

"'California is a trendsetter state,' Christian Probasco wrote in a 2007 magazine article. 'Every Californian fad eventually makes it way over the Sierras.'

"Let's hope this is no longer true, because this today, those Californians who choose to go to the polls almost certainly will guarantee California will be the first state to go bankrupt.

"In February, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger and the legislature 'solved' a $42 billion budget deficit with a mixture of (real) tax increases and (mostly cosmetic) budget cuts.

"But the deal was contingent upon voter approval of five ballot measures to extend tax increases, and to permit the state to raid funds set aside for early childhood education and mental health services. Polls indicate all of the measures are trailing, four of them badly. If the voters say no, California could run out of money as soon as July, the chief budget analyst for the legislature warned May 7."

It is my fond hope that many a political career, including Arnold's, will be ended by today's vote. The rage is not nearly as palpable as it was for Prop. 13, but it's there, and in an expected low-turnout day I think the No's will hold sway. I've got my fingers crossed.

[hit and run]

Enlightened:
Hi All! Still working, although a new department so very limited free time...

Yay! I've been thinking about you the last couple of days.

[RichatUF]

Charlie-

Good grief. It's getting less bad from lows set in 1959-1960 when the US population was half the size it is today-and wouldn't that be the second derivative, a change in inflection? The point was the nakedly propagandist presentation of the data and the obvious Sorosian reflexivity talking point of "green shoots".

[Thomas Collins]

Even Pelosi has acknowledged learning of the waterboarding in 2003 (although I believe she is still claiming that she didn't know in 2002). Folks who want to pull this nonsense may want to revisit her news conference so they can better coordinate their propaganda with what she has actually acknowledged.

[narciso]

In troubling times like this, isn't it conforting to have a vicepresident who has
a solid understanding of the issue (sarc) from his Wake Forest commencement

[clarice]

DoT--I think you are right about the implications of low turnout. Bankruptcy would be an eyeopener but what will happen then? The feds who've already done so poorly with GM rush in? Turn over 55% of the state's treasure to the unions?

[RichatUF]

Or a President more worried that you haven't bought your Dem Electro-Widowmaker yet.

Wasn't that a pretty creepy press conference today-half expected him to take a victory lap in a Government Motors 110V Golfcart to hail his victory over the US auto industry. I suppose DoT was happy today though, because the Governator was helping terminate the US auto industry and not in California helping terminate the CA economy.

[MayBee]

I'm going crazy trying to figure something out.

How does Obama have any authority to set a National Cafe Standard that companies must abide by?
And what authority does he have to keep a state from raising the standards again.
What has he done here, and how?

[bad]

Maybee, my mother was just on the phone howling about federalism and how O is trying to control everything. She wouldn't be more specific so I don't know if the CAFE standards set her off or just a collection of actions.

Hoenestly, I didn't know my mom knew about the 10th admendment.

[Jane]

I don't know the answer Maybee but I'm pretty sure Zero has no idea what he has the "right" to do, and couldn't care less. He's a one man federal legislature. YES HE CAN

[peter]

A long series of bad Supreme Court decisions going back to the 1930s increasingly allow federal meddling with the motor vehicle industry. Protest Obama, drive an old clunker, preferably a '65 Pontiac.

[cathyf]

would I be wrong because at the time it was called an "aeroplane?"
What?!?!? You want to fly an AER-O-PLANE?!?!? Do you want buttered scones with your tea?!?!?

[cathyf]

Hah....these liberals are so funny. Their favorite wingnut - Hitler - and his Gestapo coined EIT - long before 2002.

C'mon, Enlightened, that was their favorite socialist.

[matt]

Narciso;

Biden's commencement address at Wake Forest has to be one of the most inane in many a year. Yup, the country's in the best of hands with Barack and Joe....

[RichatUF]

Maybee-

**How does Obama have any authority to set a National Cafe Standard that companies must abide by?**

The EPA and the millions of donations from the environmentalist special interests. Obama has to destroy the US auto industry in order to save it.

**And what authority does he have to keep a state from raising the standards again.**

IIRC this is to genuflect to California interests and the "agreement" is that the states won't change their standards. The auto industry is praying that the Government doesn't alter the agreement further (which is the purpose of the campaign contributions).

Nicely played. The US auto industry will be shutdown, the DOE money will be exported to countries that have already developed the technology, and the dead enders at the UAW will get to bolt together kit cars which are mainly built in China while the smart ones take ever dwindling cash buyouts.

[Elliott]

Do you want buttered scones with your tea?!?!?

There is no acceptable substitute for Devonshire cream.

[Mike Huggins]

Carolyn Lockhead (sic) of the SF Chronicle still has "Fighting" Pelosi's back in an article just posted at the Chron's website:

In a sun-soaked Rose Garden ceremony announcing tighter auto emissions and mileage standards, Obama opened by heaping praise on Pelosi, saying she has "just been cracking the whip and, you know, making Congress so productive over these last several days. We are grateful for her."

Lots of good stuff here: Members "were told that Saddam Hussein has weapons of mass destruction and if you don't vote for this war bill, he's going to come in and kill your constituents," said one Democratic aide. "The idea that hippy Nancy Pelosi, the liberal from San Francisco, secretly supported torture is just too delicious for Republicans to pass up."

[Mikey NTH]

So Nexis is going to reveal the terms the CIA used in its briefings to Congress? Secret briefings?

If so, then why does anyone have a spy agency? I'm sure a Nexis account would be much cheaper.

[Scott]

Maybee

"Mr. Obama will direct the E.P.A. and the Transportation Department to jointly write enforcement regulations."

I would expect some challenges both in rulemaking process and after rules are released. And most especially after republican election in 2012!

[pagar]

Since the title speaks of reality, I believe this is close to on topic.

Words I never thought I would hear a Democrat say.

"Reid said. "We will never allow terrorists to be released in the United States."

Link

I tried to post this before from Firefox so if more than one show up-Sorry for the extra posts.

[Mike Huggins]

Hmm... html tags not working?
URL: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/05/19/MNMR17N5CL.DTL&hw=pelosi&sn=003&sc=1000

Nancy, you are our hero!!!!

[Extraneus]

Hey, another great "if you idiots took offense at what I said, I'm sorry about the fact that you idiots took offense" apology, complete with a shot at Fox:

Anderson Cooper Says "Teabagging" Comment Was "Stupid, Silly"

[Mike Huggins]

Firefox going nuts? Tags don't work and then they do? I blame Leon! or Cheney! or Landru!

[Extraneus]

Speaking of OT, I might have missed if anyone commented on the excellent Steele speech today. Didn't know he had it in him.

If the link doesn't work, HotAir had the video:

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/05/19/rnc-shocker-steele-delivers-good-speech/

[Charlie (Colorado)]

If so, then why does anyone have a spy agency? I'm sure a Nexis account would be much cheaper.

Actually, there are a lot of people at Langley reading Lexis/Nexis, local newspapers, watching local TV... this is called "open source" intelligence, a term that far predates Richard Stallman.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Mike, it's not Firefox, it's some damn thing with typepad. The HTML changes if you refresh the page.

[matt]

so what happens next in California? #1, the bond rating will tank and the market for California securities will dry up to nothing.

The state will begin to stop paying its bills, and its suppliers and contractors will stop deliveries and contracts.

Payrolls will not be made. What happens to vital services then? Medi-Cal will also be affected, so low income residents will face a possible unavailability of services. It could be a real mess.

No one is going to want to loan a dollar to a failed state. Technically, BK is not an option, so it is going to throw the legal system into some turmoil.

If California's problems spill over, which I believe they will, we will then see Michigan, New York, New Jersey, and Ohio implode as well. This could be our very own Kredit Anstalt.

And yet everyone in government knew they were spending at insane levels. Tar & feathers, anyone?

[DrJ]

Turn over 55% of the state's [CA] treasure to the unions?

CA essentially is doing so as an annuity already.

The polling place I visited at 3:00 had only had 47 voters appear all day.

[narciso]

The National Recovery Administration was eventually overturned, and that had as large
as scope as the American Recovery & Restoration Act, the stimulus, with the logo, but a more competent administrator in General Hugh Johnson.

[RichatUF]

DrJ-

That's disappointing to hear. Any feel if those ballot initatives are going to pass-did ACORN and SEIU whip enough votes to give everyone a surprise?

[Rick Ballard]

DrJ,

Did you go for hanged or shot? I can understand people avoiding the decision, even though they won't be able to avoid the outcome.

[MayBee]

matt- I heard an LA County Supervisor on NPR the other day. Believe it or not, the county operates in the black.
He said they never went crazy over promising in the good times, and they are weathering the bad times. Imagine.

[MayBee]

My polling place had had 150 voters by 3 pm.

[Dave in OC]

Maybee,

Long time lurker here. The EPA has the authority to set national emissions and Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards (CAFE). Here in bankrupt Kahleeforneeeya we were granted the authority to set higher emissions standards (NOT CAFE) in the 60s due to our then record setting pollution levels. In the 90s some Northeast states were granted the ability to use CA standards but not set their own.

The EPA was set to grant us and some other states the authority again and the "compromise" was that a tougher national standard would be put in place instead. IIRC the new 2016 CAFE standard of 35.5MPG was to be achieved in 2020 originally. Of course the current state of technology doesn't allow us to get there by either date.

I believe I saw something that stated that Europe's currently at about 35MPG with a huge mix of mini-cars and lots of diesels. Diesels get about 25% more MPG but only recently have breakthroughs in catalyst technology made them US and even California approved. Of course they cost a couple thousand more per car...

PS - The whole thing today proves what a charade the "transparency" thing is. Some of the new standards rely on using new rulings that are still in the PUBLIC COMMENT stage. Kind of shows what a bunch of filthy liars the whole administration is doesn't is?

[RichatUF]

The Administration isn't even looking for a figleaf for the 363 sale for GM. I suppose it might not be all over but its looking to be.

[PeterUK]

Obama emitting on the BBC. I bet Obama won't give up the presidential limo.

[DrJ]

Rick,

"Did you go for hanged or shot?"

I can't tell the difference in your analogy. I chose bankruptcy, since the measures really were a band-aid on a gunshot wound.

Rich,

"Any feel if those ballot initatives are going to pass-did ACORN and SEIU whip enough votes to give everyone a surprise?"

I can't tell from here. I live in a very conservative rural county, which is not exactly Acorn territory. Too many Mormons.

What is it with HTML tags here today? They all seem to disappear.

[Rick Ballard]

Believe it or not, the county operates in the black.

MayBee,

It it OK to believe the LA COunty Press Release which seems to indicate something somewhat different.

This:

"Fujioka estimates there will be a $300.4 million budget gap in local revenues, which he
proposes to close with $107.2 million in ongoing department budget curtailments,
$115.5 million in bridge funding, and $77.7 million in federal stimulus funding."

doesn't even address the health care hole.

LA County Supervisors speak with triple forked tongue.

[Dave in OC]

Rich and DrJ,

The issue is very convoluted. I believe the SEIU is actually AGAINST the all but 1 of the propositions. Supposedly 1C will bring in more money for health car without raising taxes. Heard that before.

DrJ, what are you doing going to the polls? All of us right wingnuts use absentee ballots. IIRC it's up to about 50% in Orange County.

[MayBee]

I may have overstated the "in the black" thing. Or he may have. One of us.

[pagar]

Speaking of-- American Recovery & Restoration Act,--If you see any of their signs, these guys would like to know:

Article

[DrJ]

DaveOC,

DrJ, what are you doing going to the polls? All of us right wingnuts use absentee ballots.

I guess I'm not a member in good standing. My wife does the mail-in thing (she's the more liberal of us), but I just enjoy the ritual of going to the polls, chatting with the poll workers and casting a vote. On a paper ballot.

[Ann]

Andy McCarthy has another must read at NRO today: "On ‘Torture,’ Holder Undoes Holder"

He reports how two committee Republicans trapped Holder. The two men are: Dan Lungren, California’s former state attorney general, and Louie Gohmert, the former chief judge of a Texas appeals court.

They both will be on Hannity at 9pm.

[DrJ]

Pagar,

Speaking of-- American Recovery & Restoration Act...

Your link didn't come through, but further to the ARRA: I was invited within a three-hour period to serve as a reviewer on three different NIH panels to help evaluate the huge blurp that is going through their system right now.

Your tax dollars at work!

[matt]

As to GM & Chrysler, how do you think a large portion of the country is going to react when looking at new cars? There will be those like me who refuse to buy either brand on political/moral grounds, and then those who simply won't trust the bastids. Either way, they are well and truly screwed.

Without a complete renegotiation of UAW work rules, pension funding, and salaries, there will only be a hulking wreck at the end of all of this.But by then (5 yrs or so), The One will be busy writing his memoirs.

[DrJ]

"how do you think a large portion of the country is going to react when looking at new cars? "

I've wondered about this. I don't know how many people buy cars on this sort of issue (unions, government, bailouts and so forth) and how many buy on what the vehicle is. I personally have never bought a new car, so it does not effect me much one way or the other. And the three I have bought in my life (!) have all been German anyway.

[jimmyk]

"Speaking of-- American Recovery & Restoration Act"

Speaking of that, Mankiw has a nice blog on the accountability issue and the shifting goalposts associated with the administration's propaganda. He points out that the actual unemployment numbers have worse than the baseline "without the stimulus package" scenario envisioned in the administration's January 2009 report.

[pagar]

DrJ, The LUN is working on my post, at least for me. I don't understand why Typepad is messing up so much. I'm clearing every thing after each posting.
Would like to hear more about your review work with the ARRA and the NIH panels.

[pagar]

"The whole thing today proves what a charade the "transparency"

If anyone still believes there is going to be any "transparency" in the Obama Administration, after Ron Sims has moved in to take over HUD, they need to go to Sound Politics.com. Once at the site go to the search this site box and type in Ron Sims.

Here's just a tip of the iceberg story from Michelle Malkin.

"But Sims' key accomplishments in the Pacific Northwest have involved illegally keeping taxpayers in the dark. Despite his long-known notoriety in Washington State as an incompetent manager and obstinate campaign finance law-breaker, President Obama trusts Sims to oversee the day-to-day operations of a federal agency with 8,500 employees, a $39 billion yearly budget, and a chronic history of corruption and cronyism. "

LUN

[Original MikeS]

I don't agree with Zack Roth's claim that the CIA is supposed to write reports using the terminology that was in use at the time and place where the subject of the report occurred. Not only is that hard to write, but it doesn't make sense. Does that mean for example that a CIA report on Iran must be written in Farsi?

I'm trying to figure out how the CIA managed to avoid telling Nancy about 'actually employing' harsh interrogation techniques in 2002. Did the briefer use some kind of code words? Was there another meeting just for Porter Goss where they gave the real briefing?

Why didn't they tell Nancy? Was it because she's a girl? Didn't they realize that she would find out eventually? How could they know that when she eventually did find out she wouldn't raise a fuss about being deceived until 6 years later?

[Rick Ballard]

DrJ,

Think Nash-Kelvinator-Hudson Motors-AMC - oblivion. Or Studebaker-Packard - oblivion.

I just can't see Widowmakers flying off the lots - even with a warranty hand signed by Ogabe himself. It won't necessarily be a political statement. It will be more just common sense concerning a high ticket purchase involving a BK manufacturer. Add in the relentless throttling of debt serfs by credit issuers combined with the death of ABS and the Team TurboZero Dance of the Zombies for Chrysler/GM could be measured in months.

It appears to me that we are seeing a graceful rather than catastrophic failure. That last word is the important one.

[clarice]

I believe there's a lot of money to be made exposing govt fiscal fraud..why not start making buds of HUD employees around the country ..just saying..Under the False Claims Act, an individual who exposes fraud against the government by filing a lawsuit on the government’s behalf may be entitled to a portion—between 15 and 25 percent—of any recovered monies.

[DrJ]

"Would like to hear more about your review work with the ARRA and the NIH panels."

Really? Well, OK...

Briefly, every proposal that is submitted for government funding goes through peer review. Both NIH and NSF got huge ARRA bumps in their funding; some of these will be spent on solid proposals that were not funded before, some solicitations will have their funding amounts increased, and there are some new solicitations in targeted areas for new proposals. The last is primarily at NIH, who have an additional $10 billion to spend.

Their challenge is to fund good work, keep their standards at least reasonable, and spend the money that is coming their way.

So the SBIR/STTR (small business) and Academic areas at NIH all have seen a huge influx of proposals that all have to be reviewed. Some panels meet in Bethesda, others are a "paper review" only. That is, you write a review from the proposal without meeting with peers to discuss a particular batch. Often the paper reviews turn into panel meetings with colleagues once the worst proposals are culled.

So there is a massive effort to recruit reviewers to get the bodies to read and evaluate the proposals that have been submitted. Today seems to have been the trigger date for getting those bodies. Those proposals have a unique form, in that they have been streamlined (namely, the page limit has been reduced) to help the reviewers slog through them all.

These will be my first ones at NIH. I've done extensive proposal reviewing for NSF and the Navy, and I expect it will be more the same than it is different. We'll see.

The panels are really enjoyable, as you read (generally) interesting work that is cutting-edge, and discuss them with people who are very good technically. You certainly don't do it for the money, which is not that much different from asking if you want fries with that.

[Extraneus]

Ah, yes, and all for a faith-based theory that just coincidentally happens to further the left's objectives to take us down a few pegs.

Obama's new rules will transform US auto fleet

Link if it doesn't work:

http://apnews.myway.com//article/20090520/D989LN200.html

DETROIT (AP) - Some soccer moms will have to give up hulking SUVs. Carpenters will still haul materials around in pickup trucks, but they will cost more. Nearly everybody else will drive smaller cars, and more of them will run on electricity. The higher mileage and emissions standards set by the Obama administration on Tuesday, which begin to take effect in 2012 and are to be achieved by 2016, will transform the American car and truck fleet.

Imagine that. No more "hulking" SUVs to safely ferry kids around in. Will the next president have to defend against a class-action suit after entire families are crushed to death in the new put-putts? One could hope, but surely they'll address that beforehand.

Dixie Bishop, who runs a plumbing business in San Antonio that uses vans, worries the new requirements will drive up her costs at a time when customers are cutting back on repairs.

Dixie, Dixie, Dixie... What are you saying? It's the planet we're talking about!

Automakers have said they need stable, relatively high gasoline prices to create a market for electric vehicles. General Motors fears rolling out its rechargeable Chevrolet Volt next year with gas at $2 per gallon.

Wait. Higher prices are good! I have to re-think this whole thing.

[DrJ]

Rick,

"I just can't see Widowmakers flying off the lots"

I don't see it either. Saturn basically sells Americanized Opels, and they have not done that well. OTOH, the Malibu, which is well regarded, also has an Opel base.

It really is interesting to see what sort of vehicles people in different regions drive. I spend quite some time in the DC area, and I am always amazed at how small the cars are there. And I do mean cars -- one doesn't often see a full-sized pickup truck. Even a minivan looks large. Heck, there are many SmartCars wandering the streets.

It is quite different here is rural CA (or in Phoenix, when I was there). Here nearly all of what one sees on the road is massive -- full-sized pickup, Suburbans and the big SUVs. Sure there is the occasional compact, but they are comparatively rare.

And there is no practical public transportation here. In contrast, the Metro in the DC area really is good if it goes where you want it to.

That surely has an influence on policy. What the politicos see in DC just does not represent the rest of the country.

Man am I wordy tonight...

[pagar]

"Obama's new rules will transform US auto fleet"

And to help that transformation, Treasury gets another UAW advisor:

"n an unusual assignment for an investment banker, he also advised the United Auto Workers in negotiations with General Motors (Symbol : GM), Ford and . "

LUN

or https://news.fidelity.com/news/news.jhtml?cat=Markets.US&articleid=200905191451STREETCMREALTIME_10503131&IMG=N

[pagar]

DrJ, Thanks for the report. It' good to know someone is looking at this stuff.

[peter (the US version)]

I bet Obama won't give up the presidential limo.

Peter, Michelle's back porch won't fit in one of those econo jobs.

[RichatUF]

DrJ-

I really don't expect Chrysler to last long after it comes out of bankruptcy. They only sold 76,682 units (across all lines) in April and the 800 dealerships they are closing have about 44,000 units which Chrysler isn't buying back. A Chrysler dealership down the road has signs on full sized Dodge trucks for $12k off up from the $10k discount a few weeks back.