Name That Party - Special CYA With The CIA Edition

The NY Times reports on House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's credibility problem with the CIA enhanced interrogation program and gives us a couple of chances to lay "Name That Party!".  The Times open with some background and a warm-up opportunity to play "Name That Party":

WASHINGTON — Congressional Republicans on Friday accused Democrats of full complicity in the approval of the Bush administration’s brutal interrogations, citing a new accounting that shows briefings for some top Democrats on waterboarding and other harsh methods starting in 2002.

The new chart of briefings, prepared by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, was the first full listing of briefings to members of Congress and their aides. It appears to call into question the longstanding assertion of Speaker Nancy Pelosi that she was never told that waterboarding and other methods were actually used, only that the Central Intelligence Agency believed they were legal and could be used.

Adm. Denis Blair, the Director of National Intelligence, was appointed by Barack Obama.

Next, Ms. Pelosi's tortured denials:

The chart said that at the first briefing, on Sept. 4, 2002, Ms. Pelosi, then the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, and Representative Porter J. Goss, the committee’s Republican chairman, were given a “description” of the interrogation methods that “had been employed” against a prisoner, Abu Zubaydah.

On Friday, the speaker issued a statement defending her previous account.

“Of the 40 C.I.A. briefings to Congress reported recently in the press, I was only briefed once, on Sept. 4, 2002, as I have previously stated.” She said she was “briefed on interrogation techniques the administration was considering using in the future” and that the techniques were determined to be legal.

What?  The CIA was proposing to commit in the future what Nancy Pelosi's base has now reminded her are outrageous crimes against humanity.  But that was OK with Ms. Pelosi because the CIA hadn't actually done anything yet?  How does Congressional oversight work in Pelosi-world - conspiring to commit war crimes in the future gets a pass, but actually committing them is a problem?

The Times moves on:

Ms. Pelosi also noted that Leon E. Panetta, the director of the C.I.A., had warned lawmakers that the descriptions of briefings provided in the new report were based on notes and recollections of C.I.A. officers. “In the end, you and the committee will have to determine whether this information is an accurate summary of what actually happened,” Mr. Panetta wrote to several members of Congress.

Leon Panetta threw her a lifeline.  Hmm, is that Leon Panetta, career intelligence professional?  Not exactly - how about, Leon Panetta, career Democratic pol?

Perhaps we can hear from another Democrat.  Eric Holder's Justice Department prepared a narrative describing the evolution of the OLC legal opinions.  Their is a brief mention of the Pelosi briefing; the level of detail won't convict anyone but the verb tense cuts against Pelosi:

In the fall of 2002, after the use of interrogation techniques on Abu Zubaydah, CIA records indicate that the CIA briefed the Chairman and Vice Chairman of the Committee on the interrogation.

"The interrogation", not "the proposed interrogation".  Would the DoJ lawyers really have fluffed that detail?

In any case, Ms. Pelosi's non-excuse excuses nothing.  She admits to being aware of what she now imagines is criminal activity before the fact, and is only getting a whisper of support from a career Democrat who is trying to walk a line between a troubled House Speaker and the troubled CIA professionals who have been worried about a shift in the political winds from the outset of this program.

Well.  Rep. Pete Hoekstra says that the CIA files actually contain a more detailed accounting.  One might think so - per this Times story, CIA officials were worried about their political and legal exposure if and when the political climate changed.  A related anecdote appears in this Times account of the genesis of the enhanced interrogation program in 2002:

Mr. Tenet's descriptions of each proposed interrogation method was so clinical and specific that at one briefing Mr. Ashcroft objected, saying that cabinet officials should approve broad outlines of important policies, not the fine details, according to someone present. The attorney general later complained that he thought Mr. Tenet was looking for cover in case controversy erupted, the person said.

I think Ashcroft pegged it.  And if Tenet was being cautious with the Bush Administration, why would that caution lapse with the Congressional Democrats, who were clearly the most likely to turn on him in the future?

Comments

[clarice]

Frau he is a pig and to think he's been able to buy such a patriotic state--

[Fresh Air]

PD--

The Huffers missed the John Kerry moment at the burger joint:

Hiding the mustard

[narciso]

I had left out Syed Qutb, for some reason, he was the centerpiece on which Wright wrote
"The Looming Tower", he was a certifiable nut, by the account of the Greeley, Colorado church social, which Martin Amis and Mark Steyn have remarked upon, from their various perspectives. Two of the figures I mentioned, Adel, a Egyptian army colonel before joining AQ, and Atef was a policeman of some rank. The accounts of Al Aswany and even Dan Silva, are rather harrowing enough. What do they say in the rendition business; if you want information
you go to Syria, if you want somebody to dissapear you go to Egypt. Maybe his speechwriter, Ben Rhodes of the 9/11 and Iraq Study Group, doesn't know this detail.

[PeterUK]

"I think it's the Central Pit of Malebolge for Jay."

I don't think Jay qualifies for Malebulge.

[Mark]

"Now I'd like to see the whole thing out on the table."
The problem is that if Pelosi did green light EIT outside OLC guidelines, she was one of few democrats to do the right thing. Almost everyone making decisions was GOP. The problem is that intelligence is not pretty, mistakes are made in every endeavor, and it is so easy to look back and criticize and criminalize.

More disclosure may hurt a few democrats in the eyes of the left and the NYTimes, good sporting; but a lot more good republicans will get demonized. It is certainly not good enough to see Pelosi squirm to justify instilling fear of prosecution and endless retrospectoscope in our front line intelligence personnel. It is bad precedent.

If she green-lit the EIT then she was playing ball to stop terrorism. Although she deserves to be expose for being a fraud, I don't want to see her standing in front of a truth and reconciliation commission; our leaders would never have the balls to make tough decisions again.

[Boatbuilder]

Mark--agreed. I don't want the politicians doing truth commissions. But a few healthy counter-leaks and the press being compelled to take a hard, skeptical look at the Dems. Do you think that the Dems would hold back if they had worse stuff on GWB, Cheney, or anybody who could be tied to them?

[Boatbuilder]

...would not be a bad thing.

[clarice]

there was never going to be a truth and reconciliation commission--as usual the Dems hoped they could pitch shit , avoid the truth about their activities (acting rationally for a brief period after 9.11)and then have the entire inquiry aborted leaving them with spotless togas.

[boris]

"a lot more good republicans will get demonized"

Don't be such a ninnyhammer. After 9-11 the dimorats demanded the opportunity to double down on everything to do with the war on terror. Now they want to pretend they held back or wanted to but were "forced" to blindly follow by the bullies, exaggeraters and liars in the GOP.

That kind of poseur "concern" sounds exactly like the crocodile tears when W and Cheney declassified some of the PRE-invasion NIE findings. Whoop-de-doo on such a damaging "leak".

[jr]

I agree BigBad. There's a more than even chance Obama is throwing Pelosi under the bus here. There's no reason the NYTimes would print CIA leaks critical of democrats unless the White House is sanctioning it. Look out, Nancy, you're too independent of The One so you're going down.

[Extraneus]

Although she deserves to be expose for being a fraud, I don't want to see her standing in front of a truth and reconciliation commission; our leaders would never have the balls to make tough decisions again.

She deserves a hell of a lot worse than that, as does that execrable Jay Rockefeller and the rest of her lying traitor allies. And if by some miracle they get what they deserve, it will be a very good thing, and make it more likely that future leaders would have the confidence to do what's right rather than protect their own asses, which is what'll happen if the dirty Dems don't get what they deserve.

Dropping it all would be a net negative for the future of the country, I think. Only if the Dems pay a price will we be able to recover from the damage they've done in the name of politics.

[Topsecretk9]

Does anyone else wonder how the career professionals at the CIA are going to view their new boss publicly inviting Congress to doubt the memories and record keeping of said career professionals?

Posted by: Oh, those guys and their memories. Hah, hah. | May 09, 2009 at 08:58 AM

Yeah, that was a special touch wasn't it?

I just feel so sad for all the nutroots that wanted to believe so badly that their leaders were just incompetent r-tards not flat out lying sacks. That's why that commenter at Ace's said about all of this

"Demcrats and other stupid people hardest hit"

And yes, Maybee, that "nobody cares about Rockefeller" is one of my favs

And hey, Cryptic is back!!!!

[Topsecretk9]

Someone better put Empty of 24 hour surveillance, she is so freaking out about Pelosi lying - she's in full on "Amritage is NOT THE LEAKER!!!" mode right now. Sad.

[bad]

This is either an incredibly crappy and logically false article--or either Harman or DiFi is out to prove that Pelosi learned about waterboarding via non-CIA means before it became public in 2004-2006.

Or both.

Hey Tops!! Emptywheel is ready to throw Harmon AND DiFi under the bus for Pelosi.

Kewl

[bad]

where'd my formatting go? The first two paragraphs are from Emptywheel at firedoglake. LUN

[daddy]

Please don't let it be forgotten that the instant Nan's butt sat down in that chair for that 2002 EIT Briefing, that she already fully knew about our Military being waterboarded as interrogation practice on a regular basis for 30 years in her own state of California. Rockefeller knew that stuff likewise. So to pretend that they sat in these EIT Briefings and never heard word 1 about waterboarding as a method of interrogating prisoners is absolute Bull$#*t. That point needs to be driven home repeatedly to muddle America.

[Old Lurker]

Hello JOMers...

Happy to report the Lurkers are in a great bar in Bermuda "recovering" from the wedding last week. (the Brit heritage of G&T's has translated well, I must say, but if there are typos herein...blame the gin) Makes me feel like DoT when he jet-sets around.

For the Ricks/Rich in the group, this visit was (don't tell Mrs. L) to re-establish connection with some old trust company pals about moving assets off-shore, but alas tax treaties with the US since my younger days makes this not a destination for that, sad to say.

But did I say the G&T's are really really good here?

Best to all...

[bad]

Drink one for me, Old Lurker. Aw shoot!! It's Saturday night.... drink a bunch.

[Topsecretk9]

Hey Tops!! Emptywheel is ready to throw Harmon AND DiFi under the bus for Pelosi.

Kewl

Bad, I know. She's also deemed the CIA to be unreliable as they put out lies all the time or something. I guess Empty thinks they became this way March 17, 2007.

[clarice]

Hoist one for me OL..

[Caro]

OL, please try a Dark'n Stormy in Bermuda. It is what all the old sailors swear by. I am sooo envious!

[JM Hanes]

TSK9:

That thread over at FireDogLake is a stitch! Moving the goal posts this time must really hurt. I almost registered, because I soooo wanted to suggest that maybe Patrick Fitzgerald could sort out all those conflicting recollections for them.

[centralcal]

anybody gonna watch the DC Prom on CSpan?

[Extraneus]

Might I suggest Bach's Toccata and Fugue in D-Minor with digital visual tracking of organ keys, from Jonah Goldberg's odd-link girl Debby at the Corner? It's very cool.

[DrJ]

Sorry, Ext. Too much info lost -- you lose the lower pedal and the upper register. I'd rather see the score and follow along. It is all there.

Perfect pitch helps. So shoot me.

[PD]

Y'all won't want to miss the White House Correspondents' Association Dinner, being carried LIVE on C-SPAN.

I'm watching Michelle O chatting with Helen Thomas. Wow, I didn't realize Helen was so short.

[PD]

Jennifer Loven:

"They say that if you want a friend in Washington, get a dog. I don't understand that. Mr. President, haven't we been fawning enough?"

Now that's speaking truth to power.

Followed by: "I'll eating as soon as Robert Gibbs spoonfeeds me my dinner."

[PD]

Those are really astonishing earrings that Loven is wearing.

[Extraneus]

Perhaps a beat-up session for Gordon Brown might be easier on your ear, DrJ?

(Wow, PD, Jennifer Loven? There aren't many more sycophantic than her. She must have been dissed.)

[Topsecretk9]

Allah posted from Vanity Fair Twitter on media elite circle you know what

At Tammy Haddad's brunch, Ann Curry yelled at the crowd: "You are the most powerful people in the world!" let's hope not. about 6 hours ago from txt

vanityfairmag
VANITY FAIR

Ann Curry has dementia it seems.

[DrJ]

Ouch, Ext! A bit different than the House or the Senate, yes?

Don't get me wrong -- the Toccata and Fugue in D Minor is wonderful. But it is all there in the score.

[daddy]

Remember the old Sherlock Holmes story about the dog that didn't bark? Dick Armitage, IIRC, told Al Jazirah a few months ago that if he had known any waterboarding was going on at all he would have resigned. Wouldn't it make sense, if any reporter was trying to confirm Pelosi's BS Story, that somebody would contact Armitage to confirm Pelosi's account that the CIA had a history if never saying squat about waterboarding to upperlevel officials. Wonder why nobody on her side or in the Press has contacted the Former Number 2 in Bush's own State Department for corroboration of CIA incompetence in EIT briefings. Such incuriosity is curious.

[PeterUK]

Gordon Brown is the most unpopular Prime Minister since polls began in 1943.
Remember though this man has his finger on a nuclear button. He is being harried from pillar to post,current signatures on the petition 55,733. The chance is he will bomb Britain.

[clarice]

I adore the telegraph's expense acct stories, PUK.

[PD]

PUK, I see G.B. is apparently not availing himself of Silky Pony's hairstylist.

[PeterUK]

Clarice,
How about Obama and the financiers. Obama's rich backers have just twigged he really is a class warrior.

[PeterUK]

PD,
It isn't the hair that worries me,it's the pout.

[clarice]

PUK--Why didn't I marry someone that rich and stupid. *smacking head against wall--Another EIT known as called "wallboarding"*

[David Block]

That's no bus then, it's a C-130. There's not that much room under the bus for the oversized egos...

[Charlie (Colorado)]

BTW, folks, Steve Green has a great review of the new Trek coming up soon at Vodkapundit. I got a line in it.

[Danube of Thought]

Marty Peretz at TNR has grown sick of Pelosi. LUN

[Extraneus]

My favorite is by Virgil Fox, Doc, but I bet kids would love that digital key visualization.

[clarice]

DoT, IIRC he's also sick of A Sullivan. He gave up a lot to be reinvited to Georgetown Cocktail parties.

[Extraneus]

(Not that performance, btw. His "Bach Organ Favorites" CD is great, though.)

And yes, I realize this is quite OT. :-)

[bloa]

It's not Plame's torturers working Bill - it's the NEW Star Trek and Vulcan(that planet allot like lucifer's ears)and Spock finding he is, in fact, luciferian because he isn't a human perverted by lucifer, but created by him.......like Obama figured.

LA sure is sunny.

[Topsecretk9]

Can someone translate this Marty Peretz paragraph please:

"Every top Democrat is trying to cover her or his ass. Now that they are making such a fuss about the Bush administration having held everything in secret the news that it hadn't is mortifying to the Democrats now in power."

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet]

A bit around the bend, Top. He is saying that since 2001, the Dems put a lot of money on the meme that the Bush Administration was a secretive organization that tried to hide its sins from responsible Congress Critters (i.e. Dems).

That bluff has now been called and like bad poker players the world over, the Dems have lost a bundle and have egg on their face.

If even Peretz sees this, the jig is up.

[boris]

"Every top Democrat is trying to cover her or his ass. ... Now that they are making such a fuss about the Bush administration having held everything in secret ... the news that it hadn't is mortifying to the Democrats now in power."

IOW Pelosi tried to hide behind Bush admin secrecy about EIT as an excuse for not knowing about it ... and now it has been exposed that the Bush admin was NOT secretive about it.

[PD]

Obama's speaking at the correspondents' dinner now.

Man, is he lame.

[Sue]

Such incuriosity is curious.

Posted by: daddy | May 09, 2009 at 08:47 PM

Only to someone not familiar with UGO.

[PD]

Sasha and Melia are grounded. "You can't just take Air Force 1 for a joy ride."

Oh, har.

Points out that tomorrow is Mother's Day. Says that Rahm isn't used to saying "day" after "mother." Whoa!

[PD]

Bitter dig at Cheney.

[PD]

Obama's laughing at his own jokes when no one else does. The surest sign of not funny.

[PD]

"John Boehner is also a person of color. Although not a color that appears in the natural world."

I don't get that one.

[Danube of Thought]

Way to go on Rockefeller, Clarice--skinned that bastard alive.

[clarice]

OT: Oscar Arias (Costa Rica) speaks for US when our own President is too stupid and blinkered to do so (From Gateway Pundit)

La Prensa (Managua, Nicaragua) 5/7/09

(Full translation of speech by Oscar Arias, President of Costa Rica, at the Summit of the Americas meeting in Trinidad & Tobago on April 18, 2009)

“I have the impression that every time Caribbean and Latin American countries get together with the president of the United States of America it is to ask for things or to demand something. Almost always it’s to blame the United States for our past, present and future ills. I don’t believe that is at all just. We cannot forget that Latin America had universities before the United States created Harvard and William & Mary, which are the first universities of that country. We cannot forget that in this continent, as in the whole world, at least until 1750 all Americans were more or less the same: all were poor.

When the industrial revolution came about in England, other countries hopped on that wagon: Germany, France, the United States, Canada, Australia, New Zealand…… and thus the Industrial Revolution passed over Latin America like a comet, and we didn’t realize it. Certainly, we lost the opportunity.

There’s also a very big difference. Reading the history of Latin America, compared with the history of the United States, one realizes that Latin America did not have a Spaniard John Winthrop, nor a Portuguese who might have come with a bible in hand, ready to build “a City on a Hill”, a city that would shine, as was the wish of the pilgrims who arrived in the United States.

Fifty years ago, Mexico was richer than Portugal. In 1950, a country such as Brazil had a higher per capita income than that of South Korea. Sixty years ago, Honduras had more riches per capita than Singapore, and today Singapore – in something like 35 or 40 years – is a country with $40,000 annual income per person. Well, we Latin Americans did something wrong.

What did we do wrong? I cannot list all the things we did wrong. To start, we have a seven-year schooling. That is the average length of schooling in Latin America and it’s not the case with the majority of Asian countries. It’s certainly not the case in countries such as the United States and Canada, with the best education in the world, similar to the Europeans’. For every 10 students who enter high school in Latin America, in some countries only one finishes. There are countries with an infant mortality of 50 children per thousand, when in the more advanced countries it is 8, 9 or 10. We have countries where the tax load is 12 percent of the gross national product, and it’s no one’s responsibility, except our own, that we don’t tax the richest people of our countries. No one is to blame for that, except we ourselves.

In 1950 each American citizen was four times richer than a Latin American citizen. Today, an American citizen is 10, 15 or 20 times richer than a Latin American. That is not the fault of the United States, it’s our fault.

[clarice]

Thanks,DoT..

[PD]

He thinks cable news is something that he has to "contend with."

Yeah, they don't love you enough already, save one channel.

[clarice]

Apparently Boehner sports a fake tan much of the time, pd.

[Danube of Thought]

What an absolutely elegant and eloquent set of remarks by Arias. It will be highly interesting to see the reactions of some of the tin-pot firebrands down there.

For any who missed Clarice on the popinjay, LUN.

[PD]

clarice: Ah, that would explain it. Does he turn orange like Kerry?

[clarice]

More like mud,pd.

[clarice]

I started to read Empty's screed complaining the WaPo article I site to is a pack of lies about Rockefeller. If I were registered there, I'd post the last graph that i quoted where Rockefeller's own press statement is in contradiction to his claim he had been denied access to the OLC memos' content.

[clarice]

**Cite to**

[Captain Hate]

I agree Tops; usually Marty writes much more coherently than that semi-random upchuck of verbiage. Maybe he's been smoking some herb with his buddy Weird Al.

[narciso]

I was struck by one line in his peroration, then I switched to a movie about demons devouring cave explorers, because it was more believable. He goes with that line about having to talk to your enemies, not just your friends. Pronoun trouble, Mr. President, our enemies or yours. Yours are
Rush Limbaugh and Sarah Palin, people who in varying degrees want to help this country
succeed. Ours are people like Ahmadinejad who has done his best to kill Americans and Israelis where they gather, who wants to annihilate Israel, with the nuclear weapons
they are building in part with help from the
likes of Vladimir Putin. Or the Castro Bros, or Chavez, who has used Venezuela's resources to turn the region except for Colombia, a dark shade of crimson. Then again you have no problem with this.

[Rick Ballard]

Contrast Arias' words with those of Ogabe's Best Fascist Friend in Venezuela. He's treating the oil companies almost as badly as Ogabe has treated Chrysler creditors.

[clarice]

Arias has obviously read and agreed with "Guide to The Perfect Latin American Idiot" and Obama has not.

[Captain Hate]

He goes with that line about having to talk to your enemies, not just your friends.

Are we officially into emperors new clothes territory when repeated banalities like this are regarded as wisdom?

[clarice]

This B.S. from a man who will not call upon the Fox WH correspondent at pressers.

What he means is that he wants to talk to OUR enemies because they are HIS friends, I think.

[Thomas Collins]

The problem with Obama talking to our enemies is not necessarily that he talks to them, but what he says to them. It would be fine with me if Obama had a chat with Persian Top Dog Mullah Ali Khamenei, and, after calmly expressing the unacceptability of Persia continuing its nuclear program, quietly asked AK whether there was anything about the word unacceptable that AK didn't understand. In a similar spirit, it would be fine with me if Obama had a smile fest with Hugo Chavez in which Obama, smiling all the time, told Chavez that Obama was looking for a third rate tinhorn dictator with which Obama could express his inner Teddy Roosevelt.

[DrJ]

And yes, I realize this is quite OT. :-)

What, a JOM go off-thread? Heaven forbid!

I'm afraid I'm not that fluent with great organists. I'm a pianist (though I will never give up my day job) so the organ always holds quite some fascination. Virgil Fox is well-known, but you are right: the clip you linked to is a bit too Chopin-influenced for Bach. I'd prefer a more Kempff-like approach. They undoubtedly exist, but I'm not familiar enough with the players to know who they might be.

The thing with organ is that they have all of these different keyboard levels, stops, and they can carry a melody (or whatever) with their feet. We pianists can do sostenuto (for most or bass-only registers) or shift the hammers so that the volume and sound quality changes -- quite a different thing. Organ also can sustain a note like no piano can, but it cannot shade the volume either. It is more like a harpsichord in that.

So when I hear organ performed, I focus on what the feet are doing, particularly in the high 20 to 50 Hz range (particularly if it is sustained), and the voicing of the treble registers. That color is just not available on the piano.

So the flashing graphics didn't do it for me, since it trivialized those portions that are important to me. It simply looses too much information, and *rich* information that is readily available from the score.

I do think that the ability to read a musical score should be part of any liberal education. Not many may be able to read a score and hear it completely (as I can), but a rudimentary ability to read music really should be taught uniformly. Sadly, it is not.

So I did not mean to sniff at your link -- it really is pretty cool. Still, the score has richness in it that cannot be replicated by such a simple means.

Yes yes yes this opens the thread for all sorts of organ jokes, such as the number of kids Bach had because his organ had no stops, but I'll live with it.

[narciso]

I think that was the point I was going for, clarice. Among Wanda's 'great wit' was a line comparing the 20th hijacker, Mohammed Manea Al Quahtani, the recipient of mercy from one of his would be victims, Dick Durbin, with Rush Limbaugh. A joke even obliquely about 9/11, with the 'punchline'
such as it was, ostensibly about Rush. I know she's too stupid to see the obscenity of that statement

[Ann]

Here's a must read:

Obama Bans the Commonfolk from Normandy

I miss my humble cowboy...

President George W. Bush.

[RichatUF]

Rick-

Classy move from Chavez sending the army to seize property. Obama must be envious right about now.

"The move appears targeted at specific service companies that have been hampered by severe cash flow problems due to lack of payment by PDVSA, which as of last year owed some $8 billion to contractors and providers."

A broke oil company, when oil traded for $147 bbl less than a year ago.

[Topsecretk9]

Thanks Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet AND Boris for the Peretz translating. I had to pop out just after I asked for the help.

[RichatUF]

Ann-

That was a depressing story.

[Topsecretk9]

I know Captain, my eyes were crossing trying to decipher that paragraph.

Obama's laughing at his own jokes when no one else does.

Did he do this - pre giggle at his lame jokes reading them -- at some dinner where John McCain knocked it out of the ballpark?

[Melinda Romanoff]

DrJ-

William "Count" Basie on 2 cuts on the Hammond B3.

He learned to play in church, like Waller.

LUN.

[Melinda Romanoff]

or so I understand.

[peter]

Another Saturday night. Vacuous story at LUN.

Peace, everyone, peace out.

[Rick Ballard]

Rich,

I'm beginning to think that the deepwater plays are a means of protecting production from fascist thugs such as Chavez and Ogabe. Chavez can keep pumping sludge out of Orinoco for a few years without much technology. His boys couldn't even find Jack or Tupi.

Jack is the oil majors St. Jane's.

[J.M. Heinrichs]

For DrJ:
You might enjoy watching Karl Richter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zd_oIFy1mxM

Cheers

[Topsecretk9]

Another WAPO article on EIT - interesting, going after the interrogators and NOT the memo authors

LUN

[PD]

"Did he do this - pre giggle at his lame jokes reading them -- at some dinner where John McCain knocked it out of the ballpark?"

I believe so. I think it was some occasion shortly before the election.

[clarice]

Yes, at that annual Catholic dinner in NYC--The Alfred Smith dinner:

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/10/obama-and-mccai.html

[Ann]

Remember how Sally Quinn trashed and belittled Sarah Palin?

Read this gag fest:
The Nation's Embracing, and Embraceable, Arms

Gawd, how I loathe and despise women like Sally Quinn!

[Ann]

Oh, HAPPY MOTHER'S DAY EVERYONE!!!

[RichatUF]

TSK9-

Nice to see that Mary McCarthy's work, begun on the front page of the WaPo in 2006, has yet to be completed.

Whoever she was working for must have been very worried about whom the US may have captured and what they may have said.

[Topsecretk9]

Rich

For some reason reading your post Sandy Berger came mind and then I remembered they were buddies.

[RichatUF]

TSK9-

What a tangled web-I'm still trying to wrap my brain around the idea of how the Deputy, then Principal, NIO for Warning could miss during her tenure: OBL's move from Sudan to Afghanistan; the whereabouts of abu Nidal; the merger of Egyptian Islamic Jihad and al-Qeada; 2 al-Qeada declarations of war; the East Africa embassies bombings; the India-Pakistan nuclear tests: and then gets a high level sinecure, then promoted again at the agency.

[Not a Johnie, but wish I'd been one.]

Uh, St. John's College is ahead of William and Mary. It is second in age in the United States only to Harvard. St. John's donated the land for the Naval Academy.

[dick]

I would like to see the whole business interests with the Saudis brought out. Since Prescott Bush was brought into the Saudi business by Averell Harriman whose widow was probably the biggest fund raiser for the Dems in the Clinton days and Brown Brothers Harriman was the broker who handled the Bush family blind trusts, I think the dems might want to stay away from that line of inquiry. It brings into question whether BBH handled the Bush trusts well in the first place and why they got the Bush family so deeply into Saudi oil shares. I wonder if Barney, Dodd and company had anything to do with BBH along the way.

[Another lurker.]

Hi Melinda!

[DrJ]

Melinda,

Basie is great, of course, as are Petersen, Evans, Morton and many, many others.

J.M,

Richter's is a very fine performance -- thank you! -- and what a magnificent instrument he performed on! No electronics on that one, and it does make a difference.

[JM Hanes]

Since it's Saturday night, more OT to Extraneus and Dr. J:

I loved the graphical Bach! Whenever I have to work with something complex (vs reading), like the Stimulus Bill, for example, I have to run through it first and highlight headers, sections, amended text, etc. in different colors and sizes, in order to get a visual feel for the thing. When it's all black text, it''s like negotiating a labyrinth. In a similar way, it amazes that people can follow an entire symphonic score, chopped up into a gazillion pages -- and yet it's not that rare a skill.

As a teen, I once spent a summer in Music Camp, where I dropped music theory like hot potato. It was really upsetting to be listening to music on my own, only to end up thinking about how it was constructed, instead of being transported. Not very professional! I still prefer to listen to my operatic favs at home, without being distracted by the stage -- or the story. I don't even know the plots of some them, which is even better.

My first experience with earphones (the hugh ones that covered your whole ear) was listening to E. Power Biggs playing the Toccata & Fugue, and it just blew me away -- sort of a cross between being inside the organ and having an organ in my brain. I'll match your Virgil Fox, Extraneus, and raise you this equally primitive YouTube of Biggs at Harvard. I listen to a different recording at home, but I don't think anyone plays it as well as he used to. Fox is a little more romantic, but when I pump up the volume, Biggs' clarity is a real plus.

All things considered, I thought the rendition in the animation was pretty decent (yes, I missed the depth, DrJ!) and was amazed to discover that it was pieced together. In checking it out, I discovered Malinowski's timeline of computer-mediated musical performance. Click the sidebar link for 1988, where he describes his own spot on the totem pole. Under "Attractions" he talks about recording the Toccata. Under 1993, he talks about working with pre-stored scores, DrJ :-), and clearly this one's for you! My sister trained her ear to pitch, back when she was once put to bed with mono. My mother gave her a bell to ring if she needed help, but after figuring out that it sounded an F, she started to practice by humming a note and then testing her accuracy against the bell. If she had ever really needed help, no one would have showed up.

Back in the early days, I was talking to a musician/composer about computer generated symphonic music. He said that it always sounded artificial, unless you dubbed in a recording of someone playing an actual instrument, like a violin. It only took one such player to change the complexion of the music altogether, which I still think has interesting ramifications in both music and elsewhere.

[narciso]

Ah, Dillon & Read, was the big firm
originally in the oil biz, Forrestal, Nitze
& the other Dillon in the Kennedy Administration,

[Elliott]

Morning, JMH.

Question to ponder on a Sunday morn: Susan Boyle or this dude?

[Fresh Air]

JMH--

I'm pretty sure it was E. Power BIggs I heard perform the last organ concert at the Medinah Temple in Chicago. The organ in there was amazing. They had an incredible pipe hidden up in the top of the rafters somewhere, played a note only dogs could hear.

The temple is where the CSO recorded most of their albums for many years until deciding the acoustics were better at Krannert in Champaign. It's now a Bloomingdale's Home Store. Yeah, that's what happens here.

[JM Hanes]

Meant to include Malinowski's production notes for the Toccata above.

J.M. Heinrichs:

I enjoyed the Richter too. Watching while he plays certainly gives you some perspective on the nature of the beast -- the organ is a many headed musical hydra, and it's a wonder that anybody actually ever thought it up! That guy's nightmares must have been awesome.

Biggs suffered from arthritis as he aged, and I always thought it must have been like the musician's version of Beethoven losing his hearing.