Neither Can Live While The Other Survives

So, the Speaker of the House has accused the CIA of repeatedly and brazenly lying to Congress.  Her fellow Dems admit this is a big deal.  Eric Holder, no believer in prosecutorial discretion, thinks (at least in the context of the OLC memos) that we must follow the law wherever it takes us.

How does this end in something other than a train wreck?  if the CIA has in fact been lying, Panetta and Holder need to do some serious investigating and root out a major problem, while continuing the still-active war on terror.  Sort of a "ride the tiger while perfroming root canal" effort - have fun.

Or, if Ms. Pelosi has been fantasizing in public, Panetta has to assure his troops that, despite the little hiccup with the House Speaker, their work is highly valued and they continue to have the support of the President, the Congress, and the public.  And someone has to explain to Nancy that, well, it's time to come home to reality.  Good luck.

Captain Ed has a good question - why did Ms. Pelosi only announce just now that the CIA has been lying lo these many years?  Waterboarding was in the news in 2005; here is Porter Goss defending it in March of that year (my emphasis):

In the session, Mr. Goss was challenged by Senator John McCain, an Arizona Republican who spent years as a prisoner of war in Vietnam. When Mr. McCain asked Mr. Goss about the C.I.A.'s previously reported use of a technique known as waterboarding, in which a prisoner is made to believe that he will drown, Mr. Goss replied only that the approach fell into "an area of what I will call professional interrogation techniques."

He vigorously defended "professional interrogation" as an important tool in efforts against terrorism, saying that it had resulted in "documented successes" in averting attacks and capturing important suspects. Mr. Goss said that Congress had been kept fully informed of the techniques used by the C.I.A., and that those currently being used did not constitute torture, which is prohibited by law.

Ms. Pelosi should have sounded the trumpet about CIA lies right there.  Well, assuming House members follow the news from the Senate.

Comments

[Danube of Thought]

I believe she's circling the drain.

[Mike Huggins]

I like this dispassionate journalistic effort that appeared today (prior to Pelosi's latest gaffes today) in a Pelosi-home-district newspaper:

"Senate testimony painted a stunning picture Wednesday of panicked Bush administration officials resorting to harsh interrogation techniques, while House Speaker Nancy Pelosi remained mum about what she knew when about torture.

Pelosi, a San Francisco Democrat, ironically has taken the brunt of the fallout from President Obama's releasing of Bush administration "torture memos," which were made public last month against the advice of Central Intelligence Agency Director Leon Panetta, a former congressman from Monterey.

[dude08]

So Pelosi did/did not know.

And this matters because?

[Danube of Thought]

I can't imagine why anyone but the hopelessly deluded would leave the "did not know" option open.

For openers, it matters because if one believes there was a criminal conspiracy to violate the law, she is a co-conspirator. Second, she has lied, and lied repeatedly, in public about her knowledge, which some consider important in the person second in line to succeed the president.

And third, it matters because the whole thing is more fun than a barrel of monkeys.

[Danube of Thought]

That's some irony the fourth-estate watchdogs at SFGate have uncovered there.

Could it also matter because she has now accused some CIA professionals of a crime?
Doesn't the truth of her charge need to be investigated? Aren't we compelled to follow the evidence? Is any man above the law?

Let's get to the bottom of this, and fast. Swear 'em all in, and cross-examine.

[PaulL]

We want a weak, wounded, and thrashing Pelosi pulling down other Democrats with her. We don't want someone replacing her right away, if ever. Slower, please!

[Mike Huggins]

One thing DOT, the SF Chronicle article at the Gate apparently hasn't been updated from this morning's (Thur.) dead-tree edition, prior to SanFranNan's accusations against the CIA. I guess we have to wait a little longer for the Chronicle to weigh in on the latest. Likely, irony will runneth over.

[Mickey]

It is obvious she has known and lied about it, isn't that what politicians do? It just happens to be that she is not getting away with this one because she was caught. Just standard ole politics as usual, burn another before they burn you.

[clarice]

DoT. I think it's time for us old timers to gird our loins and head to the Hill for yet another fight for truth, justice , the American way (oh, and irony).

[clarice]

TM, You are getting more dramatic by the moment--at least your headers. I do believe you are having an uncommonly good time with the Perils of Pelosi

[Mike Huggins]

Since the left seems so sure of their absolutist truths on "torture" and are keen to have All Truth Commissions, All the Time, why stop at the Iraq War? Let's haul some old GI and Marine vets before an inquisition and find out about soldiers of Nippon who were "taken over the hill." "What did General Marshall and Secretary Stimson know, and when did they know it?"

[Topsecretk9]

Also, when she tried to throw Harman under a bus in 2007 the letter was revealed and the news accounts included sources saying IC heads were briefed on EIT WBoarding and she did NOT tell us all the CIA was lying and mislead her in 07

[clarice]

Niters--whoever can predict Nan's next version takes the cake.

As someone who watched in horror the Dem lies about the war as soon as it hit a rough patch I want them to really suffer now for what they did/ Really suffer.

[Topsecretk9]

I want them to really suffer now for what they did/ Really suffer.

Me too.

[Mike Huggins]

(Sorry to go OT), but for some revealing depictions of torture, has any JOM'rs been following the current PBS limited series, "World War Two Behind Closed Doors?" It's premise has been pretty much, "well everyone knows about the Nazi atrocities, but let's see a whole bunch of Soviet atrocities." Pretty amazing stuff for a joint BBC-KCET production (and no academic apologists, either). If you were a Pole in >1939+, you were screwed 50 different ways. I can imagine having nightmares after seeing that living "lady" SMERSH agent's interview.

[Soylent Red]

Just a couple of thoughts percolate in my head this morning...

First, when CIA records of the briefings emerge (and they will), Pelosi will claim they are forgeries. Remember the CIA has its own division devoted to making forged documents. She will make this claim and she will truly, in her mind, believe it, because she is insane.

Second, stipulating she is not insane, there is no way a person floats a whopper like "the CIA lies to us all the time" unless you think you can manipulate or influence the discovery of the truth. Pelosi may have just thrown any chance of a troof commission right out the window.

We know Obama would rather concentrate on staying under the electorate's radar for as long as possible, and these commissions won't help that. Pelosi suggests that a broader examination of the very lies that elected Obama ("Bush lied! Torturer! Shred the Constitution!) would pull Dems down with it. Highly publicized hearings would circumvent the press running interference for Dem lies.

Yep. Unless Pelosi is crazy, looks like the Code Pinkos and Kossacks are going to have to wait for their kangaroo court.

[fsteele]

"Let's get to the bottom of this, and fast. Swear 'em all in, and cross-examine."

Hold the hearings naked in a 50F room, as was done to the prisoners.

[Extraneus]

While Nancy flops around with that poison dart in her, perhaps we can turn our attention to the even more distasteful Jay Rockefeller, who is also questioniung the CIA's accuracy as it relates to his briefing?

On Feb. 4, 2003, a briefing on “enhanced interrogation techniques” for Sen. Pat Roberts, R-Kan., and Sen. John D. Rockefeller IV, D-W.Va., revealed that interrogations of Abu Zubaydah and Abd Al-Rahim Al-Nashiri were taped.

In addition, that briefing “described in considerable details” the techniques used, including “how the water board was used.”

Earlier this week, he claimed

We are not in a position to vouch for the accuracy of the document. We can tell you that in the particular entry stating that Senator Rockefeller was briefed on February 4th of 2003 with an asterisk also noting him as later individually briefed -- that is not correct, or at least is not being reported correctly by people reading the document. The Democratic staff director attended a briefing on Feb. 4, but Senator Rockefeller was not present and was not later briefed individually by anyone in the intelligence community. He was first personally briefed by the intelligence community on Sept 4th, 2003.

[verner]

Has Rasmussen done a poll on whether or not the public believes Pelosi?

Since it's Friday, we may not see too many good CIA leaks, but come Monday morning...

Bill Sammons was very encouraging on the "leak" front last night. And O'Rielly invited CIA agents to give him a call.

I really don't see how she can survive this mess. Stennie for Speaker!

[Jane]

So what will be the Friday news - the stuff the administration doesn't want us to see?

And Good Morning!

[verner]

Jane how is it in Mass? Looks like a lovely day here. My Peonies are quite gorgeous, and the rosebushes are bending over with blooms.

[Jane]

Verner,

We are coming into spring. Actually we are almost there. But it is cold and overcast today.

In another week I can plant my window boxes.

[Pofarmer]

"World War Two Behind Closed Doors?"

I watched a segment of it the other night. I too was amazed that it was on PBS. Good stuff, every Soviet apologist should have to watch it. And, yes, the Poles suffered terribly from every direction.

[Bill in AZ]

"rosebushes are bending over with blooms."

I'm raising tomato cutworms this year. I've probably fed them $30 worth of tomato plants already this year.

[sbw]

Bill, do tomato cutworms like Diatomatious Earth? A cheap, safe approach to controlling some unwanted critters.

[hit and run]

Verner:
My Peonies are quite gorgeous

We planted peonies last year -- and we just got the first bloom this week on one of the plants. On the other, there are about six blooms about to burst. And the hydrangeas are about ready to break out, too. I am horrible at this stuff, and it is a miracle when anything suvives my enhanced interrogation techniques (just ask the azaleas), but I get great joy out of walking out to the peony bloom each morning and lingering at the scent.

Bill:
I'm raising tomato cutworms this year. I've probably fed them $30 worth of tomato plants already this year.

HAH!

[Jane]

I just went out and looked. My peony is a week maybe 2 away from blooming.

[Bill in AZ]

sbw - "do tomato cutworms like Diatomatious Earth?"

You know, I have tried everything else, but completely forgot about that. You must be channeling my dad. Thanks, I'll be right back.

[cathyf]

I have peonies in my front side yard that have never bloomed because of the giant tree over them. So last fall we had to have the tree cut down because it was mortally wounded in a storm. ($900 not covered by insurance -- they will pay for the damage done to your property by a tree, but they won't pay to have the damage prevented...) So, anyway, last fall when the next-door neighbor and I stood there mourning the lost tree (it was a major source of shade for her yard) I said, well, hey, at least we'll get to see what color those peonies are.

My son ran them over with the lawn mower 2 weeks ago. Oh, well...

[clarice]

This year I wised up--I have little space for annuals in my garden especially sunny spots which are all inhabited by perennials. I bought and assembled a plant stand and created potagers of herbs and a few lettuces (arugula and bok choy mainly). I also got stuff from a gardeners supply place that creates water reservoirs in the pots. Previous efforts at pot cultivation did poorly as we hit steamy summertime--morning waterings were insufficient to keep the plants hydrated..also I got special very porous earth and some stuff to put into pots to absorb and hold water (for those pots without reservoirs). Except for the cilantro which I find difficult to grow all the herbs and lettuces are doing well--Oh, and I wanted lots of nasturtiums for summer salads and i found a seed company that carries lots of varieties..I started them in small pots early this spring and I have now transplanted them to the herb potagers or to whatever sunny available slots I could find.

[peter]

Neem oil is very good for cutworms. I have been an organic vegetable gardener for over twenty five years. I tell that to the local pimple faced Sierra club kid when he knocks on my door asking for money, and tell him to go scratch.

[Bill in AZ]

Thanks peter, I'll look into that too. Does it work on hornworms too - assuming I ever get a tomato plant to survive the cutworms?

[maryrose]

Spring is in full bloom here in Ohio. My dogwood trees are gorgeous! The next door neighbor had to cut down a 130 year old tree so now we have lost the shade but have gained more sunlight for our flowers.

[BarbaraS]

My father had a tried and true method of growing tomatos. He loosened the soil in a sunny spot and covered it with a plastic sheet and slitted the plastic. He then put a concrete block on the plastic and put cow dung in the upper side and planted the tomato plant in the other side in potting oil. We had wonderful tomatos with very few bugs. The plants really went wild.

[hit and run]

maryrose:
My dogwood trees are gorgeous! The next door neighbor had to cut down a 130 year old tree

The dogwoods were good here this year too. Unfortunately, our neighbors next door, who moved in last fall, decided they would rather have a big wide open back yard, rather than the one with several islands of 30-40 ft dogwoods, so they cut them down.

To each his own and all that, but since he's best friends from highschool with the neighborhood landscaper, I wish he would have said something first -- I would have tried transplanting a few of those trees in my yard. Besides the trees, maybe the landscaper even would have let me drive his front loader to dig up and move the trees.

All of a sudden, I miss Ignatz.

[bad]

Hit, I can't imagine the pain of seeing all of those dogwoods disappear.

[daddy]

Concerning local California (San Fran Bay Area Newspapers)

Last week on Business spent 2 nights in a rather fancy Hotel on the Embarcadero in San Francisco. Each morning, the paper under the door, was not the Chronicle or Examiner or Oakland Trib etc. Instead both mornings it was The New York Times. And out at the front desk was a stack of Wall Street Journals. Never did see a local paper in the hotel the entire 48 hours, which tells me that even the locals are ashamed of their daily rags.

[clarice]

Neem is such a miracle plant..In India there are reclaiming the desert(Rajasthan) with it. It is a natural insecticide(keeps away mosquitos for example which makes it useful against malaria)--they use it to treat a number of maladies--esp skin problems..If you ever learn of a reputable group looking for contributions to plant these trees at the edges of deserts around the world, please let me know. It's something I'd like to help with .