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May 13, 2009

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clarice

And it seems to me we should applaud every tiny drop of common snese--like this that this misbegotten administration can muster.

Mark O

Sorry. It's just politics, not common sense. Don't go overboard.

bad

I'd like to believe its common sense and not just ass covering now that everybody knows congressional dems have been aware of what was going on all along.

Porchlight

CYA, plain and simple. Dems only want information released when they are sure no Dems will be harmed, only Republicans. Once it became clear where this was going, Obama ordered the limo to be turned around.

clarice

Actually, I disagree.
CYA would explain why he will not overrule the CIA and declassify the briefing information.

This decision means he listened to grown ups who pateintly explained it would only further endanger the US and its people abroad, including the soldiers, that no good purpose was to be served by it..even though the moonbats will be disappointed.

Porchlight

Maybe so, clarice. But it's sad to think that he needed grown ups to explain that to him.

bad

One of O's most committed lefties at Tapper just stated that he believes O is operating out of political calculation.

I do not support this move by Obama, but I can accept it. There are more pressing issues that he needs to spend political capital on, he can leave this one on the back burner in the courts for now. As long as he continues to accept the constitutional authority of the courts, I will wait to see how this ultimately plays out.

I would guess he's gambling on the Supreme Court ultimately requiring the release so he can get the transparency necessary for public education without having to spend the political capital on it.

Even O's adoring fans don't believe in his "concern for the troops" story.

Charlie (Colorado)

Sorry. It's just politics, not common sense. Don't go overboard.

I don't think it matters to what you attribute the change; personally, I'm increasingly convinced he became convinced that he'd Look Bad.

now the trick is to figure out how to make him think he'll Look Bad on other things.

bad

Please Chaco, as if he could be so lucky as to look "bad."

Danube of Thought

Remember when the left fretted about Abu Ghraib being a "recruiting tool?" And now they want to put the pictures out there?

I'm confused...

Pofarmer

I dunno. This doesn't settle the issue, it keeps it alive. Drip, Drip, Drip, seems to be Obama's MO on this stuff. He can bring it back up at any time he likes, any time at all.

hit and run

Clarice:
This decision means he listened to grown ups

Well, this decision offers the possibility that he listened to grown ups -- but it certainly doesn't prove that he did.

I think it equally plausible that he listened to David Axelrod tell him that the polling said you don't bring harm to the troops without taking a political hit -- and that he could put up a half-hearted attempt to keep the photos out of the public sphere, get credit for "listening to adults", then pass the buck to the courts, removing as much of the political hit as possible.

But, yes, it is still the right move for him to make, even if it is for the wrong reasons or not. Yay.

maryrose

Obama put his finger in the wind and finally realized releasing the photos was a loser proposition. I think Cheney has knocked them all back on their heels.

matt

he was for it before he was against it before he was for it......He had to be told the release would erupt into all out warfare with the CIA and military, and would be an absolute disaster on the PR front. What a buffoon.

Pat

Obama has seen the damage a CIA leak did to Pelosi. Releasing those photos could have unleashed a flood of leaks from the CIA and DOD designed to make the Dems look even worse.

Cecil Turner

I think it equally plausible that he listened to David Axelrod tell him that the polling said you don't bring harm to the troops without taking a political hit . . .

I suspect that's exactly what happened. This would not play well in Peoria. Moreover, it's a lot easier to get political mileage out of using enemy propaganda to bash political opponents when you're not responsible for conduct of the war. Everything gets harder when you're in charge.

glasater

I hope this back step by Zero does NOT deter leaks from the CIA.

daddy

I simply say that the next time that Golf Reporter re-tells that off color joke about the soldier in the elevator with Pelosi, Reid, and Obama, that he makes sure that our good Serviceman has more than 2 bullets.

Semanticleo

I hope the ACLU files a FOIA request to force this administration to start releasing photos/videos of the innocent Pakistanis we're routinely firebombing when Obama "misses" the targets of his illegal extrajudicial assassination attempts.

Otherwise I might lose faith that leftists organizations like the ACLU are more interested in exposing wartime atrocities than they are in manufacturing selective outrage for partisan political gain.

Rick Ballard

"What a buffoon."

Matt,

Yep. We should all be thankful that he demonstrates the craven cowardice embodied in his total lack of principles or convictions. Who knows, perhaps this demonstration of lack of spine will inspire a few Wall Street bankers to get off their knees?

He's just a cheap and not particularly bright thug. To grant him any higher status is an error.

Appalled

My guess --Obama has seen how his torture releases have echoed through the political system. The results seem to have been:

1. A summoning of Dick Cheney from his undisclosed location with an odd thing for Mr. Cheney -- a legitimate grievance; and

2. The slow-motion embarassment of Nancy Pelosi.

This can't be what Obama anticipated. Since Assuming Obama learns from his mistakes, it would appear that he is taking advantage of a reasonable argument to shut down a political problem.

The question -- will Obama's allies play along? And will the CIA stop doing unto Pelosi what it did unto Bush?

bad

Hot Air has the video of Schumer being all for "whatever it takes" back in 04 but pushing for prosecutions last month.

Schumer is so predictable.

Danube of Thought

Andrew McCarthy explains how Obama could end this matter this very day if he wants to, or he and the congress could end it together. LUN

matt

someone needs to fund video advertising that shows what the dems said then and what they say now. The lies are spectacular, and people might actually put one and one together and get two.

maryrose

matt:
Great idea!

Thomas Collins

I vote for both politics and growing up. Some of it is Obama moving from exclusive use of diapers to occasional trips to the potty chair of judgment. Related to growing up, however, is his realization that soiled diapers may despoil the Democrat side of the day care center as well as the GOP side.

Charlie (Colorado)

Otherwise I might lose faith that leftists organizations like the ACLU are more interested in exposing wartime atrocities than they are in manufacturing selective outrage for partisan political gain.

Now you're getting it, Leo.

Extraneus

Now here's an interesting one.

Senate GOP Blocks Obama Nominee for First Time

bad

DoT, Andy McCarthy makes it pretty clear that O could nip this in the bud right now.

peter

Tom Collins posted (quote):
I vote for both politics and growing up. Some of it is Obama moving from exclusive use of diapers to occasional trips to the potty chair of judgment. Related to growing up, however, is his realization that soiled diapers may despoil the Democrat side of the day care center as well as the GOP side.(end quote)

Result: perfect imitation of a Danny Thomas coffee spit take all over my keyboard. I thought Rusty Hamer, Angela Cartwright and Hans Conreid were in the room.

Terry Gain

Spin analysis. This is win/win/lose/win for Obama.

Win - he looks like he's taking charge and saving American lives.

Win - he'd like to be transparent but can't be because of Bush.

Lose - he's let down the base.

Win- how heroic of him not to take orders from his base.

The Ace

Another fun trip down memory lane,

    And I’d like to interject a note of balance here. There are times when we all get in high dudgeon. We ought to be reasonable about this. I think there are probably very few people in this room or in America who would say that torture should never, ever be used, particularly if thousands of lives are at stake.

    Take the hypothetical: If we knew that there was a nuclear bomb hidden in an American city and we believed that some kind of torture, fairly severe maybe, would give us a chance of finding that bomb before it went off, my guess is most Americans and most senators, maybe all, would say, Do what you have to do.

    So it’s easy to sit back in the armchair and say that torture can never be used. But when you’re in the foxhole, it’s a very different deal.

Senator Charles Schumer, Senate Judiciary Committee hearing on June 8, 2004.

War Criminal!!!

clarice

DoT I think McCarthy's article got the grownups moving on O..And how is it that Bill Kristol telegraphed this was going to happen before anyone else had a clue?

Schumer's a prick. If he'd gone to my school instead of one in Brooklyn he'd have had the carp beaten out of him every recess.Now, unfortunately, it['s a little too late for that.

bad

It's never too late, Clarice. Pitchforks are admin approved.

Jane

This decision means he listened to grown ups who pateintly explained it would only further endanger the US and its people abroad, including the soldiers - I'm with you up til now Clarice. But I think the following sentence should read: "And he could get blamed for that."

clarice

Faqir enough, Jane. I didn't mean to imply that he did it out of the goodness of his heart..Mr. I Vote Present is nothing if not pragmatic.

WestWright

Pitchforks it is, where shall we meet?

clarice

**FAIR enough***

bolitha

I agree w/Rick Ballard re "cheap and not particularly bright thug" with some Mafia savy (sp?) thrown in.

hit and run

Clarice:
Schumer's a prick. If he'd gone to my school instead of one in Brooklyn he'd have had the carp beaten out of him every recess.

I would pay very good money to see grade school Clarice beat up grade school Schumer at recess.

Not as much as I would pay to see Clarice and Jane mudwrestling.

But not much less.

maryrose

Yes clarice, Schumer does come across as that obnoxious kid on the playground that needs the snot beaten out of him.

Rick Ballard

"This is win/win/lose/win for Obama."

Terry,

That's pretty good. I'd add one more big WIN - no one is watching the ball. While torture was being tortured beyond endurance the (D)irty fascist budget blew up as tax revenues continued to collapse.

Oh, and the fascists stole a car company and gave it to union thugs.

Let's talk about Ogabe's "growth" instead though. And "green shoots" - clearly visible (using an electron microscope).

Martin

What genius allowed the taking of pictures of this crap in the first place?

clarice

Rick, I am not sure he needed a distraction.
You and TM and Rich and Cathy may be the handful of fellow citizens whose eyes do not glaze over at budget figures..For everyone else there's Miss California and Donald Trump or American Idol or Wanda Sykes or whatever.

verner

Not only has Obama nixed releasing the pics, he has stated that these "crimes" were investigated by the PRIOR administration long before he took office.

As in, BUSHNazi made sure there was an adequate investigation and the evildoers were properly punished.

As in, the Base needs to take a hike on the torture stuff.

Gee, I wonder what the CIA has on him? Must be good for this much of a turnabout.

Cecil Turner

What genius allowed the taking of pictures of this crap in the first place?

That would be these two brainwaves, subesequently sentenced to a combined total of 13 years' confinement.

Strawman Cometh

The Abu Graib photos were taken by the perps.

Cecil Turner

Yeah, and then this genius (Graner's uncle) thought he could use extortion to keep the military from court-martialling his sadist nephew (how'd that work out, cuz?). And this moral paragon (Mary Mapes) thought her journalistic ethics demanded the most lurid exposure possible (and she got away with it . . . that time). Lots of sharp people involved in this one.

hit and run

Rick:
Oh, and the fascists stole a car company and gave it to union thugs.

Well...

Obama: Car Thief in Chief

Strawman Cometh

bravo, Cecil

Captain Hate

I would pay very good money to see grade school Clarice beat up grade school Schumer at recess.

I'd get pay-per-view for that immediately; the only problem would be GS Clarice getting all the oil off her fists. The only chance Little Schmucky would stand would be if a tv crew came to cover it; he might disembowel poor GS Clarice the way that rabbits and cats do with their back legs to get away and in front of the camera.

PeterUK

"Let's talk about Ogabe's "growth" instead though. And "green shoots" - clearly visible (using an electron microscope)."
It's not shoots its green mould.

matt

I can imagine the phone call to his Crackberry in the middle of the night from an untraceable number:

"Mr. Obama, if you release those photos, we'll release some other photos of you".

clarice

If I thought that were so, Matt, I'd rest easier.

I'm afraid it was more like wise counsel saying ."As sson as those appear there'll be demos all over and a US soldier or aid worker kidnapped and killed and the perps will say it's retribution for whatever B.S. is on those photos. Are you prepared to take the heat that will follow?"

maryrose

Hit:
That picture is worth a thousand words.
Obama to Detroit--- Drop Dead!

MayBee

OOOOHHHHHHHH

Politico says Comey is being pushed for Supreme Court!!

verner

That's true Clarice, but from what I heard coming from his mouth on FOX, he went very far to say CASE CLOSED, BUSH TOOK CARE OF IT.

A peace token to Cheney, begging him to please keep quiet? A nod to the CIA?

I think this mess has stung him in ways we can only imagine, and he has finally realized the folly of his ways--especially if this Pak/Afghan war gets as hot as I think it will in the next few months.

And just wait til he tells the world that Gitmo stays open, cause there's no other safe place to keep the psycho mass murderers. Indeed, wait til he says we need to send a few hundred more "detainees" to Gitmo!

narciso

Anybody catch this particular bit, it may figure into the decision taken today:

Thomas Collins

See LUN for the Comey article referenced by MayBee. I suspect that Comey is not a serious possibility, but that floating his name gives Obama a chance once again to remind folks of the bad old Bush days and the wonderful increase in our civil liberties brought by the new era. What better way to distract people from Waterwoman Nancygate than by giving some face time to a Bush official who dissented from certain Bush policies.

clarice

Well, I hope he's starting to learn something, verner.

What are you referring to, narciso? The many lost, voided and uncounted military ballots--still a national disgrace..Put me in charge of the damned program and those votes will be counted..

clarice

Comey hasn't a chance--unless he's willing to undergo an actual gelding and estrogen treatments.

verner

Bookmark this link and remember this name

Jeffrey Addicott

His book on terrorism and law is available on googlebooks.

In short, the British used EIT in Northern Ireland, and they were NOT considered TORTURE.

verner

Link on Addicott LUN

Search the book for IRELAND for tasty morsels.

daddy

Well if they do release those detainee EIT photo's, the only thing I can think of off the top of my head to counteract that horrible publicity, (at least within this country) is to release thousands of photo's of US Servicemen being waterboarded at SERE School for some very valuable perspective. I fear it would ultimately result in a negative alteration of the SERE School Curriculum, but since we refuse to allow shots of Americans leaping from the Twin Tower's or of Danny Pearl's head etc, what else have we got as a counterbalance? Hope you guys come up with some better ideas.

clarice

Pics of Pelosi right after plastic surgery?

MayBee

I suspect Comey's name is being publicly floated because Rahm and Chuck still owe him some form of repayment.
Obviously he won't get the nod, but they have to make it look like they are doing something for him.

verner

Daddy, SERE school and the Ireland ruling referenced by Addicott puts an end to this ridiculous torture argument.

The courts ruled that the interrogation techniques used by the Brits in NI DID NOT constitute torture--and they are identical to those used in EI, with the exception of waterboarding.

So you've eliminated all but THREE detainees.

Now, some torture pimps have argued that WBing is "life threatening" and therefore consititutes torture, however, if we've Wbded 20,000 of our best military personnel without a single death or serious physical injury, that's pretty obviously not true.

So yeah, let's have the pics of the 20,000 SERE water boardings. And all those Journo youtubes too.

If it was any more life threatening than scarfing down a peanut butter sandwich without a glass of milk, people would not be volunteering to have it done.

PeterUK

daddy,
You need to ask why the Left do not regard beheading as a war crime.

Whilst they may not publish Daniel Pearl's murder you can use that of Ken Begley. WARNING NOT WORK SAFE>

Danube of Thought

Daddy, keep in mind that what is depicted in these photos are not EITs being undertaken by CIA interrogators. They are supposedly of criminal acts being undertaken by soldiers run amok.

pagar

what else have we got as a counterbalance?

I still don't see why pictures of live infants dying on storage rooms shelves, or infants with scissors stuck in their brain don't end this whole (don't ask terrorists questions in a forceful manner, just be nice to them) debate.

Chicago, Aug 22, 2008 (CNA).- U.S. Sen. Barack Obama, the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, faces further criticism concerning the former Illinois state senator’s explanations of his opposition to an Illinois bill that would have protected infants who survive an abortion. While he has claimed that his opposition derived from concern that the law would be used to undermine Roe v. Wade and Illinois state law concerning abortion, a 2002 transcript from the Illinois Senate shows that Obama also opposed the bill because he believed requiring a second doctor to evaluate and care for a potential survivor of a botched abortion would be too burdensome on the abortionist and on the woman who decided to have the abortion.


dude08

"Unfortunately, back in reality it can be argued that the restless natives with whom our troops and diplomats must engage are less in tune with the ebb and flow of Bush and Barack and more inclined to embrace simplistic messages such as "America is evil" (hmm, sort of like the Upper West Side and Beverly Hills...). If that is true, releasing these photos with the assurance that America isn't like that anymore will fall a bit short."

Right - it's almost as if the "restless natives" (jeez, Kipling, I thought you were dead) can't tell a Bush from an Obama. That would explain Obama's 48 percent approval rating in the Arab world. Meanwhile, Bush was consistently the most hated world leader in the same region. Yep, hardly in tune at all.

As for them not believing that we don't torture anymore, that's not what Mr. Rove told me on my TeeVee. From Faux News:

"They can now take these memoranda and go to prospective, you know, recruits and say, This is the worst that the enemy, the United States, would ever do to you, and they’ve even forsworn these things. We can help you, prepare you to deal with these things, but even the enemy is so weak they’re not going to use these techniques on you. And it’s given them a tool to make it more attractive to recruit people, and you know, this kind of thing is harmful to us over the long haul."

Now you really got me confused, TM. Herr Rove is telling me that by releasing the torture memos, we have told the enemy we will not torture. And that hurt America, of course. Because it's a recruting tool.

Now, TM is telling me, that by releasing the pics, the "natives" will believe that we do torture. And that will hurt America, of course. Because it will be a recruiting tool.

Wingnut logic. Oh happy day....


clarice

Glad you're happy.
Ignorance IS bliss, they say.

Charlie (Colorado)

What genius allowed the taking of pictures of this crap in the first place?

The same ones who were doing it, I imagine. It's not like this was a planned program.

verner

I think the 08 means class of 08, as in high school class of 08.

If the little dude went to private school, his parents need their tuition money back...

Charlie (Colorado)

BTW, I wouldn't suggest actually going over to Sullivan to read it, but it looks like he's figuring out that Obama really wasn't anxious to push gay marriage or cancel "don't ask don't tell."

I suspect it would be a good day for the beagles to stay out from underfoot.

Rick Ballard

"48 percent approval rating in the Arab world"

I would have thought support among his fellow muslims would be higher. Don't they recognize taqiya?

PeterUK

Why would "torture" be a recruiting tool to the beheading people? Real torture,live beheadings,rape of both sexes and mutilation is common practice amongst them,waterboarding is probably regarded as sissy

Captain Hate

Rick, don't confuse the dood; he thinks 48% is a majority.

matt

dude;

you ass. When the pictures of Abu Ghraib were released there were riots and there was an increase in attacks on American troops and interests and people did die who had nothing to do with "American Imperialism" you stupid F**k. Embassy guards died,American troops died, and innocent civilians died.

And just like SERE school trains our pilots and others to withstand enemy torture, now the enemy knows the rules of the game. One of the fundamental rules of the intelligence game is never, ever let your enemy know your limitations.

Thomas Collins

Dude08, I am not familiar with the poll to which you are referring, but let's assume Obama's poll numbers in the Arab world are around 48 percent. Does that affect policy? For example:

(i) Have the rights of women in the Arab world been improved?

(ii) Are homosexuals less subject to some of the more unpleasant aspects of Sharia law?

(iii) Are buses filled with Israelis less likely to be bombed?

(iv) Are the elements in Pakistan's Interservices Intelligence Agency that support jihadists less likely to do so?

(v) Are Palestinians more welcome in Jordan?

(vi) How has the Taliban changed its behavior?

(vii) Have al-Qaeda and affiliated groups renounced jihad? By jihad, I mean the external kind, not the internal work on your own being Sufi type jihad we are always hearing from the cognoscenti is the essence of true Islam.

(viii) Are Gert Wilders and Ayaan Hirsi Ali being invited to speak to Arab students about the benefits of free societies?

Moving to the Persian world, is Iran in the process of dismantling its nuclear program and ceasing to fund terrorism?

Moving to Europe, are the Europeans more willing to take Guantanamo detainees than they were under Bush?

Moving to Korea, is Kim Jong-il so impressed with Obama that he is suing for peace with South Korea under a deal that will open up North Korean society?

Moving to the Somali coast, are the pirates serenading the commercial ships with a capella choruses of Yo Ho Ho and a Bottle of Rum?

I'm trying to figure out, dude08, just what our supposed enhanced image in the world under the Obama Administration has gained us.

centralcal

o/t: I am so enjoying the comments by Fascist Hyena over at Tapper's place.

Amazing how he has actually "cleared the room" on one of the threads - Obamabots have all scampered into hiding.

MayBee

President Mao alert:


The First Lady said all of the children could help the President in his job by doing what they're supposed to do, working hard, listening to their teacher, and lastly, never quitting.

"When something gets hard, because it will be -- there will be plenty of things that will be hard for you all; there are things that are hard for me -- will you promise me that you will not quit?" she asked.
The children agreed to do so.

"Okay, because if you do that, you will help the President so much. If you do that every day -- from now as eight, nine, 10-year-olds until you are grown-ups -- you will help the President. You'll make his job a lot easier," she told them.

Michelle Obama, indoctrinating the children of DC.

Extraneus

Sorry, I know a lot of people are into the intellectual argument over it, but the whole "torture" thing is just stupid.

Would the left waterboard Cheney if they could, especially now that he won't shut up? I'd bet my bottom dollar on it. Bush? They'd pay big to have the honor, and would happily do worse. Carrie Prejean? Sarah Palin? Rush? They'd tie him up by his thumbs.

It's all a matter of who your enemies are. KSM just wasn't their enemy. Many of us are.

verner

Charlie, Andrew has GOT to be having the worst month of his life.

He made O man look the fool over Winnie and torture.

Obama fired the first GAY in the military.

Donald Trump reminds us that Miss California's attitude towards Gay Marriage is identical to Obama's

Obama refuses to release the TORTURE pics, and gives a pat on the back to Bush for investigating and punishing the guilty.

Andrew is going to have to develop another obsession.

hit and run

Awesome. Maxim has published their Hot 100 list for 2009. (from http://hotair.com/headlines/?p=39871>Hot Air)

93. Michelle Obama
He may be dealing with two wars, an economic meltdown, and a rapidly graying dome, but at least our Commander in Chief gets to come home to the hottest First Lady in the history of these United States. (Sorry, Martha Washington!)

Please, oh please, Maxim, let readers comment on your list...

Topsecretk9

OT, but this is pretty funny...

Book your ticket!!!

(you must click on the link)


verner

Try not to be too cruel. Andrew's response to Obama's flip flops---the bride has been left at the altar, but is still in love...sort of.

"My job is to tell it like it is and push for change, not make excuses. Yes, it's too early to write Obama off. A real judgment will be possible as his first term comes to an end. He deserves some lee-way. But he needs to know that we are not eager to acquiesce in our own civil inferiority. We have some self-respect."

matt

what about Jackie? She had much more cultural impact...where's Michelle's pillbox hat?

clarice

Who's Nol 92? Oprah?

bad

LOL, Hit. Thanks for the laugh. If Michelle is in the hot 100 then standards have really relaxed and I'm a babe again.

KEWL...........

Captain Hate

We have some self-respect

*snort*

Get out the micrometers.

MayBee

Funny, Tops!

Thomas Collins

Joanna Krupa is No. 92, clarice. See LUN.

RichatUF

TSK9-

I'm unsurprised that Rattner's old stomping grounds would put The Klingon Warrior on its "hottest" list. Too bad it couldn't have gone the way of the other trash they published.

clarice

Gosh, checking out No 92 I can see it must have been a hard call for the judges..HEH

Sullivan sure looks the fool now, doesn't he?

clarice

ts--I couldn't get the link to work and now it's vanished..

narciso

"That word you're using doesn't mean what you think it does" LOL. I mean is there any honesty even at Maxim since Gutfeld left it, Guess who was No #2 in the politician category last time: LUN

clarice

I think this is the link ts meant:
http://www.nrcc.org/bookyourticket/

Extraneus

There probably are only 92 babes more deserving of the honor than the naked motherly arms, but did they not see the 17-year-old pics of Carrie Prejean so well publicized this week? Come on, Maxim, she's gotta be at least 94.

pagar

It's all a matter of who your enemies are.

Exactly, and Americans like John Kerry and William Ayers identified theirs back in the late 60s/early 70s and have continued in their beliefs ever since.

The comments to this entry are closed.

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