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May 18, 2009

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Topsecretk9

FYI,


Senior intelligence officials yesterday acknowledged that two al-Qaeda operatives, Abu Zubaida and Khalid Sheik Mohammed, had been questioned about alleged links between al-Qaeda and Iraq when the two men underwent CIA interrogation in 2002 and 2003. But the officials denied that the questioning on Iraq had included waterboarding.

"The two top priorities driving so-called enhanced interrogation techniques were information on the locations of al-Qaeda leadership and plots against the United States," one intelligence official said yesterday, speaking on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the subject publicly. "Questions were asked about Iraq, but the notion that waterboarding was used to extract from either an admission that Iraq and al-Qaeda had a relationship is false, period," he added

Pincus, WAPO LUN

Although, this is the same group that said Plame was covert so not sure they can be trusted.

narciso

I don't know if facts matter anymore,
honestly, this supposed Rasmussen poll that gives Pelosi the benefit of the doubt on this thing, makes me ill. Maybe they should let KSM and Zubeydah go, on good behavior of course, they won't kill or maim tens of thosands, just because they've done it before, they were just pissed off by a little waterboarding.

Topsecretk9

Wait though Narciso:

The CIA is viewed favorably by 63% and unfavorably by 24%. For Pelosi, the comparable numbers are 35% favorable and 55% unfavorable.

Fifty-nine percent (59%) of all voters believe it’s at least somewhat likely that harsh interrogation techniques such as waterboarding helped secure valuable intelligence information.


Fifty-eight percent (58%) of U.S. voters said in late April that the Obamaadministration’s release of CIA memos about the harsh interrogation methods used on terrorism suspects endangered America's national security.

While Pelosi and other senior congressional Democrats want to investigate further how the Bush administration treated terrorism suspects, 58% of voters oppose any such probes.

Jack is Back!

Pretty soon, Biden will reveal that al-Libi was "enhanced" in the basement of the Naval Observatory where Cheney had his secret hide-a-way and torture chamber.

Appalled

narcisco:

If the Truth Commission does not come off, Pelosi really does skate.

If such a thing does happen, then you have to contrast the benefit of the doubt she extends to herself against the benfit of the doubt she refuses to give to other administration personnel. And, in that situation, I don't think she gets such nice Rasmussens.

Charlie (Colorado)

Or, Powell knew the report was problematic but later chose to explain his disastrous UN speech by blaming Tenet and McLaughlin.

Y'think?

narciso

Appalled, don't make me bring up the "A Few Good Men" reference from Col. Markinson again. After Gorelick's role on the 9/11 commission, after Berger's obstruction and destruction of the 2000 after action report,
after the Iraq Study Group's flawed records on prognostications, including the success of the surge,(one of the players in both
commission is Obama's chief nationalsecurity
speechwriter, Ben Rhodes, another figure
Christopher Kojm is one of Obama's point men on Iran.

matt

One good note; the Supremes just sid that 800 Muslim men detained after 9/11 cannot sue Ashcroft & Mueller.

Jane

Why isn't everyone all over Holder for trying to replace the AG that is after Edwards? AS bad says - we wouldn't want to have a double standard.

narciso

I meant to say, I have no confident in any of these commissions, because of themakeup. I'll take the Feldman/JOM or McCarthy/
Toensing commission with a few other investigators, The 9/11 commission focused a large part on triage issues, not
preemption, those elements like terrorist
surveillance, finance tracking,etc; were
compromised by the Times and the Post, the immigration plank, of course was demagogued.

andycanuck

As to explaining Colon Powell,
A Freudian slip typo?
;^)

narciso

Speaking of apropo movie references, from Spinal Tap, regarding Newsweek's idea to rebrand itself, into a publication like the Economist, yes they call it Businessweek, when it's too glossy, they call itPortfolio,
talk about an 'ever more selective' circulation base

K

narciso: I must agree, there is little reason to trust any commission or inquiry today. And even less to trust one in this matter.

That is the point politics has reached in the US. And in many other places.

I have no personal doubt that extremely harsh methods were used on some prisoners. Or that innocents are sometimes mistaken for the enemy. No doubt that soldiers sometimes shoot first and reflect later. Or not at all.

Or that all nations have had covert agents or sources "disappear." Or that we do not always hear the truth about assassinations and unusual deaths. Or that agents of all powers deliberately sabotage on some occasions.

Or that documents are fabricated. Facts adjusted, inconvenient truths ignored or forgotten, and files purged.

What to do? Every one of those actions can make sense at one time or another. To me the key is whether they are routine acts and accepted policy. Or are they rare and seriously evaluated exceptions.


verner

I'm listening to Obama and Bebe right now.

It brings home the point--left wing loons, would you please STFU! The world is about to explode. We need to all be serious and united--for ONCE.

As for Bebe, he has said that the Arab states and Israel have never been so united in facing a common threat as they are now.

So Arab States+Turkey+India+Israel against Iran. Get with the program Obama, and quit linking this mess with a Palestinian State.

Soylent Red

Hey did anyone see if Zero bowed to Bebe? Or does he only do that for Arabs?

narciso

True an Iranian bomb, would kick start every nuclear program from Algeria to Egypt & Saudi Arabia; those are the parameters of A.J. Venter's Islamic bomb, Palestinians should realize they're not immune from fallout's effects.

In the LUN, a rare commentary from Ishmael Jones, on the nature of CIA congressional briefings, and the appropriate changes they need to do through; the ones Reuel Marc Gerecht pointed out almost exactly eight years ago, in the Atlantic

Scooter Libby

The Straw Wars continues it's successful run on the JOM stage.

If Cheney is Sith, then you must listen to the diminuitive leader of the Jedi;

"Of the Sith, two there always are"

Conspiracy is the game, rules are to blame.

Cheney like Vader, is a victim of the Dark Side. He only meant to protect us.

Give him a break.

Soylent Red

and quit linking this mess with a Palestinian State.

You're missing the point verner.

A Palestinian State is a means to an end for Obama. That end is a Nobel Prize and international acclaim for being the One who brought peace to the Middle East, blahblahblah. He doesn't really care about a Palestinian state for its own sake.

The promises about Iran are simply arm twisting to get Israel to acquiesce, because in Obama's world, Israel is and always has been the hitch in the gitalong. He needs them to comply so he can get all the glory, laud and honor a Messiah so rightfully deserves.

clarice

His buds Ayers and Wright have already linked elbows marching for PEACE in the Middle East--that is, throw Israel under the bus. (See Sweetness & Light for pics and details).

Jane

A Palestinian State is a means to an end for Obama. That end is a Nobel Prize and international acclaim for being the One who brought peace to the Middle East, blahblahblah. He doesn't really care about a Palestinian state for its own sake.

I was just thinking the same thing.

(And it occurs to me that if I want people to think I am smart I could just say: "I was just thinking the same thing" around here a lot.)

Peter

I will keep saying that there isn't a parent or grandparent out in the USA that wouldn't waterboard, or for that matter, gouge out the eyes of every suspected terrorist in the world to save his or her child from so much as a skinned knee.

They may SAY otherwise because it's stylish but in their hearts it's hand me the sharpened spoon.

Original MikeS

Narciso called for "the Feldman/JOM or McCarthy/
Toensing commission"

Neo

Palestinians should realize they're not immune from fallout's effects.

There was a story in the Jerusalem Post a couple of years ago describing that Palestinians, now nearing 50% of the inhabitants of Israel, would be part of the first targets hit by Iran, if there ever were a nuclear exchange between Iran and Israel.

GMax

Totally OT but quite typical for the Hope and Change Administration, I fgot this off the MBS newswire:
Last week, the Secretary of the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) announced that home buyers would be able to use the $8,000 first-time homebuyer tax credit for down payments on FHA loans through the use of bridge loans. HUD also posted the information on its website (HUD Mortgagee Letter 09-15). Since then, HUD has completely removed the information from its website, leading to speculation that the program is on hold. While no official explanation has been given, it appears that HUD and the IRS are researching the details of the program, leaving its status uncertain. As soon as any new information is available, we will let you know.

So did the change part mean, "change your mind"?

Why do I keep getting this images of the clowns piling out of the car at the circus, everytime one of the Cabinet speaks?

matt

I would add that the Iranian guidance systems are not much better than those of Saddam's missiles. @ a 60/40 chance of hitting within 2 miles of the target. That's a huge window, especially considering the probability that the Israelis would use their Patriots. I wonder if they've hacked/stolen our anti missile software yet.

fdcol63

I think Israel's Arab neighbors have shown time and again that they don't really care about their Palestinian "brothers". Instead, they look down on them as the terrorist leeches they are.

Arabs have just used the Palestinians as an excuse for all of their collective failures.

fdcol63

Close bold

hit and run

Some have speculated that Pelosi's troubles are a signt that Obama wants Pelosi out of the way.

But think about it...who else might want Pelosi out of the way?

Well.

If Pelosi is knocked out of the way, and http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/0509/Byrd_hospitalized_for_minor_infection.html>Byrd is in the hospital . . . who would be moved up two spots in the presidential line of succession, directly behind Biden, who is never more than one open mic night from being from being politically frog marched out of the administration?

"It's 3AM and there's a phone ringing in the Secretary of State's office..."

hit and run

bowled....

Appalled

Make it stop!

cathyf

just keep posting...

cathyf

just keep posting....

cathyf

...until we get to the bottom of the page!

PaulL

It cannot be stopped for some browsers until we get to page 2.

clarice

Jane, I was thinking the same thing.

Appalled

OK...Blog rule....he who neglects to close a tag will post "I will not forget to close a tag" 50 times.

Charlie (Colorado)

Hit, wouldn't someone else just move up to be Speaker?

clarice

I beg you folks--why not just use these [] brackets ? It lets the reader know your intention and if you fail to close the command properly it will[b] not[/b] screw up the thread.

JM Hanes

Original MikeS:

I like it! We could keep this scandal going for years!

bad

[b]A Palestinian State is a means to an end for Obama. That end is a Nobel Prize and international acclaim for being the One who brought peace to the Middle East, blahblahblah. He doesn't really care about a Palestinian state for its own sake.[b]

Soylent, the peace prize would have to be awarded very quickly because a Palestinian state won't mean peace for Israel.

hit and run

Charlie:
Hit, wouldn't someone else just move up to be Speaker?

That's why it has to be timed perfectly where Nancy was out and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_Succession_Act>no one yet has replaced her.

If, at the time when under subsection (a) of this section a Speaker is to begin the discharge of the powers and duties of the office of President, there is no Speaker, or the Speaker fails to qualify as Acting President, then the President pro tempore of the Senate shall, upon his resignation as President pro tempore and as Senator, act as President.

Same wording if the President pro tempore of the Senate is unavailable...


matt

I'm sure the Nobel committee already has a nomination for Obama just because he's so neat and cool and not Bush. Not that he's actually accomplished anything yet.

Pofarmer

From the

We. Are. So. Screwed. Dept.

Obama to Set New Vehicle Rules, First Carbon Limit (Update1)

Soylent Red

Not that he's actually accomplished anything yet.

As if that matters anymore.


he who neglects to close a tag will post "I will not forget to close a tag" 50 times.

At DKos.


Hit's on to something. I have been thinking for a couple of days that this has the scent of an inside job. I thought at first Hoyer, but the Hillary angle is most intriguing.

Almost Rovian, dare I say it.

Soylent Red

Man...

Typepad sucks maximum ass.

madawaskan

There is a third detainee who is consistently redacted; since al-Libi belongs in the roster,let's guess it is him.

Why? Why assume that because it fits the Liberal narrative?

He who follow Liberal trail end up with sinus infection.

There is a third detainee who is consistently redacted.

Did you look at the date on that particular CIA memo with the name redacted-?

I think it is dated May 2005.

And IIRC-in that very same sentence with the name redacted it refers to "redacted" as being part of a PRE-election threat.

madawaskan

So logically-that would not fit your pre-Iraq scenario.

PeterUK

Why look at this in terms of personalities? What is the usual stone in a presidents shoe? The legislature.If Obama can take down the Speaker,he can take down anybody in the House.
This looks more like Stalin's purges of the Party.

Captain Hate

Palestinians should realize they're not immune from fallout's effects.

Let me know the next time you hear about the palis doing anything intelligent or in their short or long-term interest. These were the same vermin that were cheering the scud missiles that were randomly exploding in their midst during the first Gulf war.

PaulL

Almost at page 2.

PaulL

Page 2.

verner

A Palestinian State is a means to an end for Obama. That end is a Nobel Prize and international acclaim for being the One who brought peace to the Middle East, blahblahblah. He doesn't really care about a Palestinian state for its own sake.

Oh Soylent, I know all that. But reality bites. there can not be a Palestinian state because a) they will not agree to recognize Israel's right to exist, and b) there's no one there to deal with and c) there is no one there capable of governing.

Arafat had the best chance anyone could ever want with Clinton and Barak--and rejected it outright. The only thing difference now is that the Palestinians are in a Civil War, and even more entrenched in their anti-Israeli hatred and intra-Palestinian power struggles.

hit and run

Tapper on twitter:

i dont mean to be a naysayer but @markosm and @michellemalkin will marry before theres peace in the middle east

HAH!

Best tweet evah!

Extraneus

Lanny Davis: Cheney gets results

God forbid, there is a terrorist attack, Mr. Cheney can be the first to blame it on Mr. Obama's policies and say, "I told you so."
Lanny Davis. Weren't he and Leon Panetta best buds?

Soylent Red

Oh verner...I know you do.

But it is helpful for all of us to, from time to time, remember that the real goal of all U.S. foreign and domestic policy is to maintain proper inflation of Zero's ego.

You know, to save the planet and all.

Sue

Ex,

That's funny. Even Obama's AG can't define waterboarding as torture and he wants Cheney indicted for it? These people are truly deranged. Cheney spoke out against Obama and "dems fighting words" in Lanny world.

Sue

I wonder how complicit Lanny was in Clinton's rendition program? I would so love to have this show trial these people are screaming for. I want it all out on the table. How many people were actually tortured while Clinton maintained plausible deniability?

Semanticleo

I love bolded text.

You guys should change yer Pelosi underwear.

You've obviously changed the Bush Boxers
with the attendant yellow and brown stain.

A little bleach and their good as new.

Have you seen the GQ article and the scriptural justification for the War of Choice, Iraq?

THAT stain is a little tougher to remove.

 Ann

Extraneus,

Besides Lanny trying to compare Mr. Cheney to Gary Hart (LOL), he ends with this stupid double dare:

So as to Mr. Cheney: I think it is time to take him up on his implicit dare and indict him for violating the 1994 federal law against torture.

Not to do so, in light of Mr. Cheney's arrogant public challenges, may reinforce the notion that Mr. Cheney can get away with lawbreaking, and be proud of it, because he is a former vice president, and because he is the tough, intimidating Dick Cheney who everyone (at least many) in the Bush administration feared.

He sure got an earful in the comments...loved that!

clarice

I'm sure Davis had nothing to do with it--He was a lawyer in private practice who was rolled out to defend them as a talking head from countless scandals.

**Aside--I am having the strangest experience today. My high school class is having its 50th reunion and set up a website to post everything. I'm reading thru all the bios, looking at old pics, crying in remembrance of those who've passed on as the site plays the music of that era--Short shorts, Venus, Turn Me Loose, Calendar Girl, Lollipop, Venus, Under the Boardwalk...
Very peculiar rush of conflicting emotions.

Sue

[I'm sure Davis had nothing to do with it--He was a lawyer in private practice who was rolled out to defend them as a talking head from countless scandals.]

Stop bursting my bubbles. ::sigh::

Extraneus

From the comments Ann referred to.

wnaegele

Cheney is a man that Lanny and the rest of the Washington metrosexuals best leave alone...

Annoying Old Guy

I pondered the HRC Scenario a while back. It's the only way to explain why she took the position in the first place.

Captain Hate

It was difficult to determine which was the most disgusting piece of human filth associated with the Clintoons: Lanny Davis or Sidney Blumenthal. I suspect it was Sid because they couldn't even trot him out for the gabfests where the gibbering Lanny set new limits on the level of cluelessness that a purportedly intelligent individual was willing to assume in order to excuse the behavior of Slick and Muffer.

tryggth

There seems to be a tiny bit of confusion about what happened to Al-Libi after leaving Bagram Air Base but before ending up in Egypt. I have seen all of the following: USS Bataan, Poland and Gitmo. (The Bataan reference is on Wikipedia, Gitmo is pretty easy to find with Google, and I've misplaced the Poland reference... don't even know if Poland was operating at that time.)

The fact that its a bit difficult to find an authoritative narrative of that time period is only slightly less mysterious than why he didn't end up in Gitmo with KSM and why his recent location was a state secret.

tryggth

There seems to be a tiny bit of confusion about what happened to Al-Libi after leaving Bagram Air Base but before ending up in Egypt. I have seen all of the following: USS Bataan, Poland and Gitmo. (The Bataan reference is on Wikipedia, Gitmo is pretty easy to find with Google, and I've misplaced the Poland reference... don't even know if Poland was operating at that time.)

The fact that its a bit difficult to find an authoritative narrative of that time period is only slightly less mysterious than why he didn't end up in Gitmo with KSM and why his recent location was a state secret.

RichatUF

tryggth-

Libya could have asked for him back, they were dropped from the State Sponsor of Terror List and sanctions were reduced during that time. They also had plenty of abu-Nidal's terrorist mates in prison or in guesthouses (those that abu-Nidal couldn't kill). IIRC, Libya was the only country that had an INTERPOL Red Notice filed against OBL during the 1990's. A useful trick for a terrorist state to use.

 Ann

Clarice,

Reunions are always bittersweet, no matter what age.

Cheer Up though because how many of your class mates have such a large, fawning, lovable, funny, intelligent fan base begging to be invited for dinner?

Frau Jedöns

"It's pretty clear that Wilkinson (Wilkerson) is simply reporting overheard gossip ..."

Richard Armitage, gossipmonger with oak leaf clusters, stood around the same water cooler. Didn't these fellows have any real work to do?

clarice

Ann, you are too sweet. I want to stay away from the website (but not the reunion). I mean where the hell did those fifty years go? A number of people have sent in pictures of really old people who they are pretending to be.

 Ann

I don't know where the time goes Clarice. All I know is I had this perfect, beautiful little child and she turned fourteen in a blink of an eye and I still want her to hold my hand.

My husband and I took her to school this morning at 5am to catch a bus for the eighth grade trip to D.C.
She is now in a hotel room at the Comfort Inn in Springfield VA with a 102 degree fever and she wants her mom. Argh!

Is it really a wonder why we age so fast?

My husband is out of town and I guess the dog and I are up til 2am to find out what the latest temp reading is and what they should do. Somebody tell me a joke!

This is all you'll get with government doctors.

It's most likely a virus and self-limiting, needing only fluids, rest, vitamins, and maybe a little tylenol. If the fever doesn't resolve fairly quickly, or if specific signs that it may be bacterial, like pain on urination, sinus tenderness on pressure, earache, nasty purulent cough, or delirium, then she should go to a doctor.

What can a doctor do that a duck cannot? He can stick his bill up his ass.

Jane

I mean where the hell did those fifty years go?

Clarice, It is truly amazing isn't it? You blink and it's nearly over.

Ann,

How is your daughter?

hit and run

Annoying Old Guy:
I pondered the HRC Scenario a while back. It's the only way to explain why she took the position in the first place.

Hah, me too, http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2008/11/hillary-at-st-1/comments/page/4/#comment-140074774>this from November 22.


I'm beginning to think we're becoming ungovernable.

See Michael Paulson in the Weekly Standard for more corruption in the OPR.

H/t Powerline

 Ann

Thanks Dr. Kim and Jane,

Fever broke, all is well and they are on their way to the Washington Memorial. I have five flats of zinnias to plant out front today, so if the local news takes a picture of a woman asleep in a flower bed in Ohio....it is me!!

hit and run

That's great news, Ann...

Hope your weather today is as nice as it is here...

 Ann

That would be the Washington Monument. Sheesh

hit and run

Just tell her not to take the westbound red line to Washington Center.

Wait. Wrong thread?

 Ann

Good Morning, Hit!

It is beautiful today. A brisk 56 but it should warm up to 75 later in the day.

I just know you are going to get some good news soon!!! Thinking of ya.

clarice

Glad she's better, Ann.

hit and run

http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2009/05/wilkerson_strikes_out_on_msnbc.asp#more>Three strikes and Wilkerson's out

Funny, but it's not even baseball, it's tee ball. Rachel Maddow serves as the tee, and she still helps induce the three swings and a miss...

Sue

Speaking of baseball, guess which team is the #1 team in baseball?

hit and run

Uh, the Dodgers.

Followed by the Blue Jays.

Then the Brewers.

Sue

Whatever. You are supposed to read my mind. Texas is #1 in their division. 4 games in front of Los Angeles. How cool is that?

Sue

Besides, you stopped before you got to # 4. The Texas Rangers!

hit and run

::grin::

Sue

It isn't often, hell, let's be truthful here, it is never that I can say that!

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Wilson/Plame