Trust No One

The Times is tough on Nancy Pelosi's explanation that everyone else is lying about the CIA enhanced interrogation briefings.  They also get some thoughts from the previously silent Senator Shelby (R).  The too-cute statement from Porter Goss, who attended the famous September 2002 briefing with Ms. Pelosi, reappears.  Finally, retired Senator Bob Graham is included.

First, some Pelosi-bashing:

Pelosi Says She Knew of Waterboarding by 2003
By CARL HULSE

WASHINGTON — The House speaker, Nancy Pelosi, acknowledged for the first time Thursday that she knew by early 2003 that the Central Intelligence Agency had subjected terror detainees to waterboarding but saw little recourse to challenge the practice except by achieving Democratic control of Congress and the White House.

Ms. Pelosi offered her account at a tense news conference as she was pressed for a full accounting of when she became aware that the Bush administration had sanctioned harsh interrogation techniques.

The issue is emerging as one of the toughest tests of Ms. Pelosi’s tenure, as she finds herself fending off accusations of hypocrisy from Republicans for criticizing the interrogation methods, even though she had known about them, and from liberal critics who say that she should have raised the alarm earlier if she knew what was transpiring.

In her roles as both Democratic leader after 2004 and then speaker after Democrats won control of the House in 2006, Ms. Pelosi has been an outspoken critic of the administration’s treatment of detainees, saying the specter of torture had damaged the nation’s reputation and put military forces at risk.

But it was not until late 2007 that it was disclosed that, as the senior Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, Ms. Pelosi had been briefed to some degree on the interrogation methods.

Let's reprise the too-cute Porter Goss:

Porter J. Goss, a former C.I.A. director who as a Republican congressman from Florida attended the September briefing with Ms. Pelosi, said in an article published in The Washington Post that lawmakers were suffering from “amnesia” if they “claim to have not understood that the techniques on which they were briefed were to actually be employed; or that specific techniques such as ‘waterboarding’ were never mentioned.”

His verb usage makes me tense.  If the September briefing was clear that waterboarding was used on Zubaydah in August, why did Goss write that the techniques "were to actually be employed"?  Surely it it would have been simpler to write 'They told us the techniques had already been employed'.

Well.  If Goss is saying that waterboarding was mentioned and that the techniques were described as "to be used", that is troublingly consistent with part of Pelosi's story.

Here is Silent Shelby (sort of), who was the ranking Republican on the Senate side; he was briefed later in September with Bob Graham:

An aide to Senator Richard C. Shelby of Alabama, the senior Republican on the Intelligence Committee in 2002, said Thursday that Mr. Shelby recalled that in a separate 2002 Senate briefing, “not only did the C.I.A. briefers provide what was purported to be a full account of the techniques, they also described the need for these techniques and the value of the information being obtained from terrorists during questioning.”

Since the value of the program was discussed, one presumes that the past tense was employed.  But what does "purported to be a full account of the techniques" mean?  Was it or was it not a full accounting of the enhanced techniques as Shelby now understands them?  My goodness, are there no suspicious minds at the Times or among their readership?  A more detailed presentation of Shelby's statement provides some reassurance but leaves new questions:

"As Vice Chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence in 2002, Senator Shelby was briefed by the CIA on the Agency's interrogation program and the existence of Enhanced Interrogation Techniques (EITs)," said Jonathan Graffeo, a spokesman for Shelby. "To his recollection, not only did the CIA briefers provide what was purported to be a full account of the techniques, they also described the need for these techniques and the value of the information being obtained from terrorists during questioning. The Senate briefing also included an explanation of how these techniques were consistent with the law and with the national security interests of the U.S. To his recollection, while there was a great deal of discussion, there were no objections raised during the Senate briefing he attended."

When asked whether Shelby was informed that waterboardbing was being used, Graffeo responded: "Waterboarding was one of the EITs the CIA briefed Sen. Shelby on."

First, note that the waterboarding response does not indicate whether Shelby was told it was being USED.

Finally, Bob Graham:

Former Senator Bob Graham of Florida, chairman of the intelligence committee at the time, has said he did not recall discussions of waterboarding during the briefings.

If Graham does not have it in his notebook he does not remember it (I know the feeling...).  He was not allowed to take notes of his briefing, so there we are.

Eric Holder's DoJ has this on the early Senate briefings:

In the fall of 2002, after the use of interrogation techniques on Abu Zubaydah, CIA records indicate that the CIA briefed the Chairman and Vice Chairman of the Committee on the interrogation. 

So Shelby and Graham were briefed "on the interrogation" of Zubaydah.  Hardly definitive.

Graham does note some early CIA confusion on dates; this is from Sam Stein:

"When this issue started to resurface I called the appropriate people in the agency and said I would like to know the dates from your records that briefings were held," Graham recalled. "And they contacted me and gave me four dates -- two in April '02 and two in September '02. Now, one of the things I do, and for which I have taken some flack, is keep a spiral notebook of what I do throughout the day. And so I went through my records and through a combination of my daily schedule, which I keep, and my notebooks, I confirmed and the CIA agreed that my notes were accurate; that three of those four dates there had been no briefing. There was only one day that I had been briefed, which was September the 27th of 2002."

That could be simple confuson - someone at the CIA found a log noting two Congressional briefings in September, and whoever was talking to Graham did not look deeper. 

Comments

[verner]

The Good Doctor is IN! LUN

[I love the sound of popcorn in the morning.]

And Cheney keeps hammering away for the memos that demonstrate the results which saved lives. This is grand and hilarious; fundamentally it's all about national security, and when al-Qaeda strikes again the Democrats are going to be exposed in all their tender belly magnificence. Who'd a thunk that this fabulous issue for the Republicans is actually none of their doing. Well, not Obama, not Axelrod, not Panetta, not Rahm, but maybe, heh, Dick Cheney.

[FredrikI]

Darth Cheney strikes again !

[saveliberty]

It's hard to know where the political covering of one's assets begins and the poor listening comprehension skills end.

[R C Dean]

For God's sake, what difference does it make what verb tense was used. Nancy and the rest were told that waterboarding either had been or would be used and raised no objection. That is all that matters.

Don't get sucked into the completely irrelevant argument about whether it had been or would be used. Its a distinction without a difference when it comes to Congressional oversight of an ongoing program.

[verner]

RC, She admitted she knew in 2003. Case closed. So why did she go and have to accuse the CIA of being law breakers and lying about the 2002 briefing?

She has GOT to go. Surely the democrat higher ups realize this.

She is going to be the poster child for a repub victory in 2010.

[Pofarmer]

The Sarah Palin effect?

Gallup Abortion polling.

51% now consider themselves prolife.

LUN.

[bio mom]

This, from the Shelby account you post, would indicate that they were told the techniques were used.

...the need for these techniques and the value of the information BEING OBTAINED from terrorists during questioning.

[bad]

Just a small cautionary note, TM. You are looking for accuracy from congresscritters. Might as well ask for fiscal restraint.

There just ain't any.

[centralcal]

When watching Pelosi at these pressers (present and past) I am always struck by her strange arm/hand gestures. It is hard to focus on what she is saying because that right arm and hand is flailing away so wildly.

As to the subject at hand, we are being asked to decide if the Speaker is a liar, or if the CIA are liars. This is a classic lose/lose situation for the Liberals.

And, I like it!

[verner]

Also, as Little indicated, the CIA is standing by the info in the released schedule, which states quite plainly that in Sept 2002, the TECHNIQUES USED on A-Z were given to Pelosi and Goss.

The only reason she is stonewalling is because a) she has been assured by Panetta that he will not release and b) if it's leaked, she will continue to say that the CIA is lying.

The woman is a psychopath. If the lie is big enough, the faithful will swallow.

[pagar]

Surely the democrat higher ups realize this.

Democrat higher ups? Would that be the one who can't find his birth certificate, or the ones that say that's OK - one does not need an American birth certificate to be president of the USA?

[Bill in AZ]

The question in my mind about the verb tense is whether it is actual quotes of what the congresscritter said, or in one case the congresscritters spokescritter. Or is the verb tense inserted to match the meme? Sort of like how gratuitous talking points are inserted into just about anything you read from the dysfunctional media anymore. I get interviewed by the local paper fairly often, and I'm genuinely surprised when the get my name right, much less anything else I said.

[BumperStickerist]

Nancy Pelosi has been Speaker of the House since 2006.

During her tenure, Nancy has had better, more important things to do than fret about torture.

... as such, I'll give "torture" the same priority that Nancy does when discussing the issue with the good folks at FDL or TalkLeft or DailyKos, or our resident lefties here.

Nancy Pelosi: Torture Ain't No Big Thing

.

[Captain Hate]

When watching Pelosi at these pressers (present and past) I am always struck by her strange arm/hand gestures. It is hard to focus on what she is saying because that right arm and hand is flailing away so wildly.

I think that's an indication when she's really really nervous because she knows she stepped in it badly. It's hard to believe that she has a staff of anything other than witless toadies if they're willing to let her go out and make a complete fool out of herself; although I can't imagine anybody with more than an ounce of brains or self-respect willing to work for such a clueless harridan.

[verner]

Anyone who has a democrat congresscritter--give them a call, and tell them that Pelosi needs to go!!!!

[Sue]

The problem I have is we are now up to version # 5 from Pelosi. If it is finally the truth, why did she wait until v5 to use it? She is lying. Her every action yesterday screams liar. And a liar that is caught.

[hit and run]

Verner:
Anyone who has a democrat congresscritter--give them a call, and tell them that Pelosi needs to go ... on tv every day. More Pressers!

[It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World]

Off topic, but Obama now has count two of his fundamental insanity in evidence. He is claiming that the level of debt is unsustainable, and that what is driving us into debt are the inefficiencies of our present health care paradigm. He is using the fear of future debt to hang us with government healthcare, which will make the boondoggle of Medicare pale into historical insignificance. His first evidence of fundamental insanity was believing that raising the price of energy will encourage 'sustainable' alternative energy, fundamentally believing that such energy is 'free'.

He really is deluded. These things just don't make sense in the real world, but they do in an artificial hothouse of Alinsky organizing. He will come a cropper over these psychoses.

[Appalled]

Pelosi has framed this as "Believe me! The CIA lies all the time." All of this with hand gestures and body language which suggest panic, panic, panic. Yeah, she's credible.

This stuff of torture reminds me of the days of impeachment, when the GOP thought they finally had Clinton down and out. End result -- Bill Clinton skated away from trouble, and suddenly, plenty of Republican big wigs had their affairs revealed and careers demolished.

Voters do not like the bipartisan Congressional habit of looking for people to destroy. Maybe if these attempts at destruction keep backfiring, they'll stop.

[BB Key]

I think it was Karl Rove's piece in yesterday's WSJ that pushed Pelosi over the edge.

Do any of you know if Pelosi's dad(Big Tommy D'Allessandro) crashed and burned in politics by getting on the wrong side of an issue and refusing to back off?

[Rick Ballard]

Verner,

They all need to go. I would think that encouraging Pelosi to fight 'til the last drop of botox might have better effect. She's a fine symbol for the (D)irty Fascist wing of the Democrat party, embodying the low cunning matched with low intelligence which is the hallmark of the committed leftist.

What we need is a good parsing battle, one that will bring Jeff and his recursive sophism back into play with long tedious posts explaining how to hold your head at just the right angle and squint while looking directly into the sun in order to find the "truth".

If we can get her to fight for a while it will give the CIA the opportunity to feed information concerning her husband's looting into the press. Who knows, perhaps they'll "accidentally" expose Feinstein and Boxer while they're at it.

[Ranger]

BTW, military commissions are comming back... Of course it is going to take Obama another three months to actually write the "new" rules, so all that he has really accomplished is posponing these trials for 6 months and letting one really bad guy go free. This one was a twofer for Obama, the left gets screwed (he promised them no more military commissions), and America gets screwed (by letting one really bad guy go rather then go forward with his trial).

[verner]

What we need is a good parsing battle, one that will bring Jeff and his recursive sophism back into play with long tedious posts explaining how to hold your head at just the right angle and squint while looking directly into the sun in order to find the "truth".

Hee Hee. You are right of course Rick, the embarrassment to the democrat brand is priceless.

But I'm still an American, and she is a national disgrace.

[MayBee]

TM is getting sucked into EmptyWheel's game.

Pelosi knew about waterboarding. Also, the long-repeated story that Congress people weren't allowed to bring aides or discuss this with staff has proven to be a lie.

Pelosi and her aide didn't raise any objections to waterboarding, then pointed at Bush and called him a torturer for political reasons.

The end.

[MayBee]

Rick:" What we need is a good parsing battle, one that will bring Jeff and his recursive sophism back into play with long tedious posts explaining how to hold your head at just the right angle and squint while looking directly into the sun in order to find the "truth"."

Exactly. That's the game. They find one word or phrase they determine to be the accurate kernel of the story, then call all contradictory information wrong, a lie, or inaccurately reported.

Nancy knew about water boarding, she was able to talk to her aide about it, and she didn't care until it became politically beneficial.

[Topsecretk9]

TM is getting sucked into EmptyWheel's game.

Big Time.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Both Goss and Shelby suffer in general from a near inability to make a simple declaration, or to say something in five words when 15 can be made to serve.

[RichatUF]

Appalled-

Voters do not like the bipartisan Congressional habit of looking for people to destroy.

Really, could of fooled me. The muddle doesn't want their tv interrupted and gets in line whenever the media picks it enemy of the state (AIG? Chrysler bondholders? "The rich"). The Democrats problem is that there aren't enough Republicans left in DC to credibily foist scandals on anymore and the Dem haigographic coverage these last few weeks aren't selling enough papers.

We really ought to encourage the CIA and the Dems to go to the mat over this issue. Madam Speaker, please, double, double down-the CIA are liars and everyone knows it.

[Faith]

I think what is clear is that they were told what it was and that it was going to be used. However, I also firmly believe that Pelosi is a functioning idiot barely able to go about her daily life without adult supervision and a helmet. She's a moron. I can fully believe she simply lacked the mental capacity to understand what was being told to her.

[Topsecretk9]

Exactly. That's the game. They find one word or phrase they determine to be the accurate kernel of the story, then call all contradictory information wrong, a lie, or inaccurately reported.

They spent a whole day disputing Cheney's request for 2 memos, calling him a liar, because his words were "I've asked the CIA to declassify" not "Using the appropriate protocol I sent a letter to the archives to request the CIA declassify 2 memos"

[BumperStickerist]

No, seriously.

Pelosi has known of this for Quite Some Time. She has known about TORTURE! TORTURE!
TORTURE! during the Entire Time that she has been Speaker of the House.

She did not bother to find out what her aide knew.

She did not bother to figure out if the CIA had lied to her.

She hasn't really done much of anything on this Oh So Important issue.

Can we at least agree on that, while emptywheel and the Left starts trying to pick Nancy's rhetorical fly poop out of the pepper.

.

[BD57]

I dunno, I have a couple of theories:

(1) TM might be playing devil's advocate here. It's a worthy exercise - any litigation attorney worth his briefcase does the same thing (it's really the only way to shoot holes in the opposition's theory).

(2) TM's secret "Congress-speak" decoder ring is on the fritz or, in a moment of amnesia, he forgot to use it.

Congress-critters (kinda like that!) don't speak English - even if they keep detailed notes of a meeting, they know others have done the same and seem to live in fear of being contradicted (witness Pelosi's hysteria).

Not to mention the narcissist personality HATES being contradicted - can't tolerate it at all.

So ..... they speak weasel all the time; nothing is direct, nothing is unqualified, nothing that can be said in 20 words will be said in less than 100.

[Captain Hate]

Who is emptywheel?

[Danube of Thought]

Dick Morris said last night she'll be out of the Speakership (replaced by Hoyer) in a month. Of course, Morris has a record of being correct about 22% of the time.

I absolutely love this entire "distraction." A fight between a congressman and the CIA is a "contest" in the same way that a hanging is a contest between a man and a rope.

Rest assured, the spooks are coiled like a cobra on this one. They won't strike today or tomorrow, but at the time of their choosing they will cut that lady's kite string for good.

[Topsecretk9]

I think this has been forgotton:

By Porter J. Goss
Saturday, April 25, 2009

A disturbing epidemic of amnesia seems to be plaguing my former colleagues on Capitol Hill. After the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, members of the committees charged with overseeing our nation’s intelligence services had no higher priority than stopping al-Qaeda. In the fall of 2002, while I was chairman of the House intelligence committee, senior members of Congress were briefed on the CIA’s “High Value Terrorist Program,” including the development of “enhanced interrogation techniques” and what those techniques were. This was not a one-time briefing but an ongoing subject with lots of back and forth between those members and the briefers.

Today, I am slack-jawed to read that members claim to have not understood that the techniques on which they were briefed were to actually be employed; or that specific techniques such as “waterboarding” were never mentioned. It must be hard for most Americans of common sense to imagine how a member of Congress can forget being told about the interrogations of Sept. 11 mastermind Khalid Sheik Mohammed. In that case, though, perhaps it is not amnesia but political expedience.

Let me be clear. It is my recollection that:

– The chairs and the ranking minority members of the House and Senate intelligence committees, known as the Gang of Four, were briefed that the CIA was holding and interrogating high-value terrorists.

– We understood what the CIA was doing.

– We gave the CIA our bipartisan support.

– We gave the CIA funding to carry out its activities.

– On a bipartisan basis, we asked if the CIA needed more support from Congress to carry out its mission against al-Qaeda.

I do not recall a single objection from my colleagues. They did not vote to stop authorizing CIA funding. And for those who now reveal filed “memorandums for the record” suggesting concern, real concern should have been expressed immediately — to the committee chairs, the briefers, the House speaker or minority leader, the CIA director or the president’s national security adviser — and not quietly filed away in case the day came when the political winds shifted. And shifted they have.

[John]

The Pelosi-CIA cage match is good. Let her feel the wrath of all those wonderful people whom her fellow dems protected from the wanton ravaging of mean republican Sen. Shelby when he was D-CIA for a brief time and tried to reform that place.

I think undermining morale at the CIA is no big deal. They really are a useless bureaucracy of careerist seat-warmers (the operations people are so few that I don't think they make much of a difference - the good ones have probably all left for private security firms or the FBI/DIA anyway).

I don't think CIA keeps America safe. I think the NSA-DIA-FBI-DoD do that.

Note I omitted Homeland Security from that list.

[cathyf]

Ok, maybe I just haven't been paying close enough attention here, but I'm really confused. Can somebody please help me?

So why does it matter whether Pelosi found out about waterboarding in Sep 02 or Feb 03?

Pelosi's story is that she found out about waterboarding before it happened, while the CIA's story is that she was briefed after one guy was waterboarded and before the other two. Ok, I can understand why she might want to claim that she found out after all three were waterboarded, because then she could claim that she had no opportunity to exercise any real oversight, since it was a done deal by the time she found out. I can see it if Pelosi and the CIA had positions exactly reversed -- then Pelosi could say "they shoulda told us before they waterboarded anybody, because only then could we have exercised proper oversight."

I'm just perplexed -- it seems to me not only that Pelosi is lying, but that she has completely lost track of whatever story she was trying to support with the lies. I certainly have!

[Rick Ballard]

"I can fully believe she simply lacked the mental capacity to understand what was being told to her."

Faith,

I agree completely. She was a "connected" affirmative action hire in the first place and she's doing as well as anyone could possibly expect, given her extraordinary limitations. It's even hard to sustain an argument concerning any sort of betrayal of principles given that she's a committed "progressive". She's just not as good a liar as the progressive movement generally produces. I'm not sure I want a better liar as Speaker at the moment.

[CaptDMO]

Blah blah blah Barry Goldwater...mining the bay...
What did folks call it the LAST time a pol
got caught outright lying, by the testemony the folks that were actually there and stuff?

Oh yeah, Swift-boating.

Strangely, Ms. Pelosi is bestowed immunity
from prosecution for lying to Congress, and the public, in her party's neverending story construct of "the previous administration".

[MayBee]

Captain Hate- she blogs at Firedoglake, and the New York Times loves her. She can tease more meaning into one word than a hairstylist giving a bouffant.

[Old Lurker]

"I'm just perplexed -- it seems to me not only that Pelosi is lying, but that she has completely lost track of whatever story she was trying to support with the lies."

Sounds like you are not perplexed at all!

[Empty lives in a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World]

Emptywheel is Marcy Wheeler, a full-blown example of the power of delusionary progressive thinking. She created an entirely imaginary fantasy of the Plame Affair. Convincing it was, to the Left.

[Topsecretk9]

I think Pelosi is trying to hang her hat now one vague semantics - what the definition of is is.

For instance, at briefing number one they briefed on all techniques with demonstrations which included water-boarding as a technique, then said we have used "EITs" on bad guy last month , so she is trying to say they were like 2 briefings in essence and stretching the limits of what is believable

So perhaps they showed the arsenal of techniques then mentioned they had used EITS on the subject and she's trying to say they never said they had used actual water-boarding, just EIT's, in Sept. 2002.

It's ridiculous.

Besides which, she knew they were coming and when her aide informed her he went to a briefing on interrogations it was her responsibility if she CARED to make sure he told her the details.

[Extraneus]

I'm not sure I want a better liar as Speaker at the moment.

Me neither. She's the best Speaker we could possibly have at the moment.

[Sue]

===it was her responsibility if she CARED to make sure he told her the details.===

It is my understanding she only attended one briefing. If that is correct, was that the only briefing they held? Not according to the briefing schedule released. If she was so concerned about EITs, why didn't she make it a point to attend those briefings to see if the techniques had been used? She is lying. It was politically expedient in 2002/2003 to allow them to be used because otherwise democrats would have been accused of being soft on terror.

[Captain Hate]

she blogs at Firedoglake, and the New York Times loves her.

Figures; I just lurked over there and now feel unclean having been immersed in such stupidity and hubris. How can you guys stand it?

[clarice]

Shall we call this denouement the Swift-boarding of Pelosi?

[Give me five or ten trillion and I'll make the world work the way it should.]

I wonder what must be running through the little pea brains at the CIA, whose funding is entirely dependent on Congress, now that the most powerful member of that Congress has declared war on them. I wonder what must be running through Leon Panetta's little pea brain. I'm happy to think what must be running through Obama's little pea brain when he contemplates the mess he created opening the interrogation Pandora's Box, and how he completely missed the boat on the consequences, despite 'agonizing' over the decision for a month. His little pea brain must quail at the thought of making decisions of really big import when he hasn't got the luxury of 'agonizing' for a month.

I half think our big international enemies are holding their fire for fear of what a mess this tyro can make of things. Things like Mutually Assured Destruction only function when your opponents are dwelling in the real world. We now have someone with the analogue of the mindset and insight of NoKo's Kim in charge. That's got to scare the realists in this world.

[Topsecretk9]

How can you guys stand it?

It was especially tough when she insisted that Armitage was in NO WAY involved in the Plame affair and got hysterical and mocked anyone who suggested so, especially TM, and then when it was finally too hard to deny anymore she took credit for having uncovered his role in an article .

That's what a creep Empty really is. She's insufferable that's for sure.

[narciso]

It's a cheap dodge to avoid the fact, that
'once upon a time' they weren't defense
attorneys for AQ. Maybe it was out of fear, rather than a cold appraisal of what was needed. Their stupidity and that of the Times's Risen and Lictblau who leak the SWIFT and TSP and Dana (Goodfellow)Priest,
who leaked the rendition sites, and their protocols, and James Banford and PBS who expanded on the hardware used to intercept communications.

As hard as I try to, I don't understandthese
people at all, I know Alinsky and Social Democratic theory, figures into this, But it's their strongholds, NY, (JFK, the PART
train, LA (they don't they'll come for the Library Tower, again)The PrudentialBuilding,
in San Francisco, the Sears Tower, as the latest convictions from Miami show; the ultimate sin city, Las Vegas, as Whitley Strieber's otherwise poorly crafted recent novel shows, and frankly considering
Padilla, El Shukrijumah, and 12/10 hijackers
you can't rule out South Florida. What kind of games are they playing.

[Extraneus]

Does anyone understand why Jay Rockefeller is arguing the CIA's report that he was briefed in February, 2004, claiming instead that he wasn't "personally briefed by the intellegence community" until September, 2004? What happened between February and September of 2004 that would expose that weasel?

[dk70]

I don't want her to step down. I want her to step up to the mic daily.

We can't investigate Nancy until we get through this backlog at the ethics committee. I would prefer that she stay through 2010.

[Rick Ballard]

Look! A green shoot!

Remember to read very quickly and stop thinking when you get to "The amount of industrial capacity in use dropped to a record-low 69.1 percent." or Idi & Imelda Ogabe will send union thugs to "help" you.

Boy, it's great to see the bleeding slowing. I'm sure that everything will be fine as soon as they figure out why the blood pressure keeps dropping.

[Ranger]

Well, the interesting question is, how painful does this have to get for the Dems before they pull the plug on her?

I'd say very, very, very painful, because she is the main block to a serious ethics investigation of Murtha and PMA.

Of course she is also doing that out of self preservation, as she was implicated in a DoD IG report as telling two seperate defense contractors from her district that if they wanted earmarks they needed to hire PMA.

[Mark O]

Nancy's on meth. Wild eyes. Duck.

[peter]

It's Friday, people. Take a day off from the Pelosi watch. Time to smell the roses, or whatever. Watch LUN for a while.

[Old Lurker]

"The amount of industrial capacity in use dropped to a record-low 69.1 percent." or Idi & Imelda Ogabe will send union thugs to "help" you.

Silly boy, Rick. When you subtract the industrial capacity from what was formerly know as the US Auto Industry from the base, that 69% goes way up. The Won will get the credit.

[Dorothy Jane]

Because Nancy is a Dem - she has NEVER HAD TO FACE any tough questioning. Not on Meet the Press, not on Stephanopolis, never, ever. She has always looked and sounded like a buffoon. She has tripped over words and sounded inarticulate since she first stepped in front of a microphone in a designer suit all botoxed and pearled - it is only NOW the media is kinda sorta noticing. And I stress kinda sorta.

[hit and run]

Peter:
It's Friday, people. Take a day off from the Pelosi watch.

But Friday afternoons are when the really fun stuff gets dumped...

[Ranger]

Hmmm... Gingrich just went nuclear on Nancy.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2009/05/gingrich-pelosi.html>Gingrich: Pelosi 'Lied,' 'Despicable,' 'Dishonest,' 'Vicious,' 'Trivial'

"I think she has lied to the House, and I think that the House has an absolute obligation to open an inquiry, and I hope there will be a resolution to investigate her. And I think this is a big deal. I don't think the Speaker of the House can lie to the country on national security matters,” Gingrich said.

...

"Speaker Pelosi's the big loser, because she either comes across as incompetent, or dishonest. Those are the only two defenses,” Gingrich said. “The fact is she either didn't do her job, or she did do her job and she's now afraid to tell the truth.”

I wonder if there is some internal polling that tells the Rs this is a way to nationalize the 2010 congressional races.

[Sue]

Australian tv has released a picture purportedly that Obama just said yesterday wouldn't be released. How'd that happen?

[Rick Ballard]

Gingrich might be having flashbacks to his Jim Wright days.

I'd rather have the press desperately trying to postpone oblivion by shredding the Liar of the House in order to prop circ, though. That would be much more entertaining.

[Sue]

Bad English, but you get the idea. Via Drudge.

[Moral preening is disgusting and dangerous. Unless you really are good.]

Oh, I bet so, Ranger. This is a national security issue, and Pelosi and the Dems are simply displaying their hypocrisy and pusillanimity on the issue. Good stuff.

[Semanticleo]

"That could be simple confuson"

Let's start the campaign for Secession today!

Palin/Cheney in 2012 !!!

That's the Ticket !

I remember Rhett Butler's line from 'Gone with the Wind' in which he tells the War hungry neophytes in the Old South...

"All the South has is...cotton....and arrogance."

[RichatUF]

Sue-

That's easy. Obama has stacked the Pentagon with a bunch of America hating Soros bots so it can be looted. Those photos, iirc, were part of the evidence used at various court martials so I'm pretty sure the America hating Sorosbots have already had access to them and leaked them to various journalists. Surprised that Austrailia was the first, figured that it would be Britian.

[Danube of Thought]

I'd be very surprised (and once again disappointed) if the GOP didn't make Pelosi the lynchpin of the 2010 campaign. And I'd be even more surprised if the Dems are unaware of this. I expect they will shove her aside with some sort of transparent figleaf, but one way or another she won't be Speaker a year from now.

On another topic, LUN for a thoughtul article on the Chrsyler fiasco by an authority on bankrupcy law. The constitutional questions are front and center, but no specific lines of legal attack are disclosed. And first, of course, someone has to be willing to be the attacker.

[Leo hasn't got a thing to say about Nahncee.]

Heh, Peter, Pelosi perches atop the Yellowstone Caldera. Yah, and Leo hasn't even any cotton.

[pagar]

Pelosi 'Lied,' 'Despicable,' 'Dishonest,' 'Vicious,' 'Trivial'

Gingrich just found this out?

[Rick Ballard]

"How'd that happen?"

Sue,

Perhaps the defense attorney for the convicted criminals who engaged in the misconduct at Abu Ghraib for which their commanding officer was relieved somehow lost control of his set of the pictures. I wonder if we'll see any of Karpinski in jodhpurs and spurs holding a riding crop.

[PD]

Dear [member of Congress]:

The Pelosi clown show continues. What an embarrassment she is, to the Democrat party, and to the country as a whole.

How long will Democrats in Congress continue to allow her to remain as Speaker? You should replace her with someone who has more credibility. Cindy Sheehan, perhaps.

[Neo]

A new study by researchers at Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution (WHOI) and the University of California, Santa Barbara (UCSB) is the first to quantify the amount of oil residue in seafloor sediments that result from natural petroleum seeps off Santa Barbara, California. The new study shows the oil content of sediments is highest closest to the seeps and tails off with distance, creating an oil fallout shadow. It estimates the amount of oil in the sediments down current from the seeps to be the equivalent of approximately 8-80 Exxon Valdez oil spills.

So much for protecting the California coast .. seems they should be out there pumping it out

[Ranger]

Off topic, but McCain is setting a really nasty trap for Obama on the SC http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2009/05/guns-as-a-supre.html>nomination:

According to prepared text, McCain will say in the speech later today that, "As a candidate, President Obama expressed the view that the Second Amendment is an individual right. I hope any Supreme Court nominee he submits to the Senate for confirmation shares his view. And, I believe the Senate has a responsibility to determine whether they do.

Before the Heller case, how many left of center legal types every expressed that view? I'm betting the number is close to 0. And using this specific issue makes Senate Dems from red states very vulnerable.

[matt]

The Dem leadership has a quandary. Pelosi has lost most of her credibility, and yet is the most powerful woman in America. Murtha is her sidekick. They have Chris Dodd and Charlie Rangel to deal with as well. These are not going to go away. Somehow, they are going to have tie this all up into a stinky little package and dump it into Chesapeake Bay with the rest of Washington's effluent.

At the same time, it diverts attention from Obama's further predations on our rule of law and economy, so it's to his advantage in a way.

The challenge from the opposite side is to first check Obama with outside tools such as the courts just as the Left has done for so many years. Alinsky the Alyinskyites, and then keep it going for 2 years while forging a principled, big tent coalition.

[bad]

And we know O means it, Ranger, because he said he wouldn't take our guns even if he wanted to.

And words matter...O said.

[centralcal]

HotAir has a video (from MSNBC) of a Morning Joe appearance with Sen. Kit Bond.

Toward the end, Time's Halperin and Willie Geist join Mika and Joe in talking to Bond.

It is an absolute hoot!!! Please go watch

The CIA Doesn't Brief On Techniques It Ain't Gonna Use

[madawaskan]

Tom Maguire-

Let's see did you watch Pelosi?

In comparison to that performance which by the way came out of her own mouth -{only because we have the videotape!} you are going to give more balance to the verb tense "variable" of Porter Goss in "quotes" from the Washington Post and The New York Times .

Hey just for fun why don't you count up the verb tense conflicts in Pelosi's presser?

Work that formula out.

And here is another thing-

You want everyone to believe you in economics and business when you claim the news and Liberals seem to misrepresent your area of expertise.

You'd think you'd have some empathy therefore-knowing the complications of large scale economics and business-the necessary limit of knowledge in the general public due to 'specialization' and apply that to something much more complicated because we and the enemy are playing at a game with much higher stakes even than that, and which involves matters of-life and death.

The very existence of the state-which by the way supports and promulgates Capitalism-{well at least it use to.}

[Ohio Granny]

I wish the good Speaker of the House the same fate as the former assistant to the VPOTUS. Scooter got caught mixing up what he knew and when he knew it, which is exactly what Mrs. Pelosi is finding out happens when you speak while brain is not engaged, or when you try to smear Cheney, thinking he would go quietly into the night.
If I'm understanding this blog, it is saying Nancy is right and everyone else is leaving her to twist in the wind. Oh those evil Republicans! And yet...., the Big O could end all this by making the actual notes of the meeting completely "transparent" but hey, he never really cared for that woman anyway. She tried to school him in who's the boss. heeheheheheheh
If they weren't bankrupting the country, I'd be enjoying this.

[bad]

Ohio Granny, hang around and gab with us some more.

[narciso]

McCain can't surely be serious about that statement, 'don't call me surely' Obama has had the most explicitly pro gun control stance of any candidate ever, including board membership with Ayers on the Joyce Foundation; among one of the bills he proposed in the Illinois legislature, would
effectively ban all gunshops, in the Greater
Chicago area.

Where are the young turks in the GOP,
aspiring to leadership in the next congress;
commenting on any of this, or the economy,
or cap n trade, or single payer Pence, Ryan,
"crickets" I can't say that with a straight face, instead of Inglis and Flake's half baked carbon tax. Things are getting so bad that one former fraud, Henry Blodget, is attacking a fully credentialed fraud,
Krugman,for noticing the details that Flynn
and others have seen about Russia and China; of course from the wrong end of things

[madawaskan]

Darn it why is Kit Bond retiring-

He blew Nancy Pelosi and Tom Maguire right out of the water-

The CIA doesn't have briefings about what they are not going to do.

Classic!

Oh and yes! The CIA makes it a habit to lie to the people that control them by.....the funding!

They would lie to the senior Democrat Nancy Pelosi without any fear of economic retribution.

[madawaskan]

Jeez Tom-

Number #1 rule Confucius say-

Defend Pelosi end up with smelly stuff on foot.

[bad]

Madawaskan, lying to Pelosi wouldn't require much cleverness. My crazy kitty cat has more brain power and savvy, not to mention loyalty and good taste, than ol' Nutty Nancy.

I KNOW she could hold a better press conference....

[Bill in AZ]

Rick: Look! A green shoot!

The headline: "U.S. Industrial Production Falls Less Than Forecast"
They're painting brown shoots green again.

Someone should tell Gingrich to hush. She does deer-in-the-headlights better than anyone I've ever seen. I would miss a great morning laugh every day if she went away.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

I don't think CIA keeps America safe. I think the NSA-DIA-FBI-DoD do that.

John, I bow to no one in my low opinion of CIA, but it really doesn't work like that. DIA does its own analysis, but they concentrate on order-of-battle and capabilities; NSA doesn't do analysis at all. Synthesis, strategic order of battle, and threats are all done at CIA. They have their problems, but then you never hear about successes either.

[Mike Huggins]

SanFranNan comes out with "Guns Blazing" and the hometown San Francisco People's Daily Chronicle at her back:

"In doing so, Pelosi turned a distraction into a conflagration. She had little choice after two weeks of Republican accusations that it was she who was lying, accompanied by a leaked CIA timeline that said she had been briefed on Sept. 4, 2002, that "enhanced interrogation techniques" - a euphemism for torture - "had been employed."

Democrats quickly closed ranks behind the speaker."

And DiFi had this to say about the CIA:
""The CIA on this issue is in a defensive mode. Who knows whether what they're saying is right or wrong? The CIA is not an agency that is above not telling the truth."

[RichatUF]

Bill-

GM and Chrysler are both in shut down mode (I think Ford is joining them soon for their summer shutdown) and inventories are still being burned off. Should make for an interesting GDP number next quarter as oil has ticked up, companies are not rebuilding inventories, and the auto companies disaster.

DoT, good article on the Chrysler bankruptcy, thanks for the link.

**It also provides a bulwark against arbitrary governmental action taken at the behest of politically influential interests at the expense of the politically unpopular. The government's threats and bare-knuckle tactics set an ominous precedent for the treatment of those considered insufficiently responsive to its desires**

Although in a different context, Kelo might be instructive to understand the Obama Administration's position. It's all a run up for the coming GM bankruptcy which won't have the figleaf of a "buyer" for a 363 sale.

[PeterUK]

What tense and whatever grammar reports of the meetings concerning EIT are couched in is irrelevant.It is the job of Committee members to ask questions."Are these methods being used,have these methods been used to interrogate prisoners"?
It is part of the job.Pelosi fell down on the job.

[Jane]

Democrats quickly closed ranks behind the speaker."

I dunno if I believe that. IIRC She only won with a 60% majority. That means 40% prefer Hoyer. I'm fairly confident that all of the blue dogs - if any still exist, are more than willing to stab her in the back. And I feel confident that President Obama has room under the bus for her as well.

Hopefully it will be a long drawn out process.

[Ann]

My Favorite Picture!

RushLimbaugh.com

[Extraneus]

Someone should tell Gingrich to hush.

Someone should have done that a long time ago, in particular the day he took over as Speaker, but as to your larger point, hear hear!

Just think what the 2004 campaign could have been if we hadn't laughed that nice Dr. Dean out of the primary.

[Bill in AZ]

Heh heh - VDH absolutely skewers the media here.

[Ann]

Test:

[bad]

And DiFi had this to say about the CIA:
""The CIA on this issue is in a defensive mode. Who knows whether what they're saying is right or wrong? The CIA is not an agency that is above not telling the truth."

I wonder what the CIA has on DiFi? We may find out soon.

[madawaskan]

bad-

I have a weird sense of humor so hopefully it doesn't look like I am harshing on Tom too much, but he has always been how do say-never mind-I actually had to stop reading this place because being at the time a member of the active duty community-this place got dispiriting.

In fact-Terrye and Syl I greatly miss around here..

Anyways,you have to take a look at the link centralcal left ...

I-don't want to get into the details but I have people close to me in the military and now working for government agencies.

A HUGE problem consistently is F-U-N-D-I-N-G.

They have to scuttle back and forth briefing all the time.

So it is rather incredulous that the CIA would lie to Pelosi someone who I think would have a great amount of influence and control over their purse strings.

That's politics 101, and the House-that's were they derive most of their power.

[matt]

DiFi said that? Is there any chance of dragging her sorry ass into this mess? As chair of the Senate committee, she's going to be in a world of hurt with the spooks now too (he said gleefully).....

[bad]

Well, madawaskan, I was dead serious about the qualities of my cat vs those of Nancy.

But I do appreciate your funding perspective...

[Bill in AZ]

Should make for an interesting GDP number next quarter as oil has ticked up, companies are not rebuilding inventories, and the auto companies disaster.

Soros News Network (ABC News - radio) made a point of oil ticking up this morning. Must be on the journolist, but I am not sure why. One of those things that makes you go hmmmm. Oil only "tics up" in election years, and there doesn't seem to be any basis for it to "tic up" now. No one is buying, producing, shipping, driving, and we're floating on a sea of oil and gasoline. Maybe it's just the annual pre-Memorial Day, summer vacation "Oil ticking up" headline just to make folks feel even more miserable.

[madawaskan]

I have no idea how the CIA promotes and hires and how they "pick" upper management but-I do believe there is a high probability that there are a bunch of entrenched Democrat appointed bureaucrats over there.

I think Tenet being one of the longest serving CIA directors had an inordinate amount of influence being the longest serving director in recent history.

Charlie(Colorado) probably has a better idea...

Still I don't think they are so stupid that they would lie to Pelosi and wouldn't be able to analyze the fall out and repercussions of doing so.