A Little Bit On The Holocaust Memorial Shooter

Some stray thoughts on James von Brunn, the execrable Holocaust memorial shooter:

1.  What set von Brunn off?  I have a notion that his age, 88, was significant, since "88" is a big number in his circles, as explained by a former housemate:

His new housemate also soon showed that "he was big into the Hitler thing," Aulbach said.

At times, they would be watching television together, "and you'd just hear '88.' And I didn't know if the guy maybe had Alzheimer's or something, maybe he was losing his mind a little bit. I kept asking Eric, 'Eric, what is he saying?' Finally, he said, 'H is the eighth letter of the alphabet and 88 is HH. Heil Hitler.' And that's what he told me."

So, did von Brunn want to make a last bid for immortality while 88?  When is his birthday, anyway?

[A troubled aside - I would have promised that I had blogged on "88" in response to a James Taranto "Best Of" piece a few years ago.  Is memory an unfaithful servant, or am I betrayed by Google?  Hey, go with Bing!  Google can't even find the Taranto piece, but Bing puts it at the top.  Doesn't explain my Epic Fail of a memory, though.]

2.  Was von Brunn attempting a suicide-by-cop?  According to the Times (which describes a note that does not really read like a suicide note) he took his .22 rifle to the Memorial and left the heavier 30/30 at home.  I have a hard time believing von Brunn expected to survive his attack at the Memorial.  That said, I also have a hard time believing he went with the lighter weapon because he hoped to spare others.   One guess - as a convicted felon, von Brunn could not legally buy rifles; the Times speculates that he bought both weapons before his 1981 incident at the Federal Reserve.  Do 30/30 rifles not age well? Perhaps someone with more knowledge of rifles can shed some light on the weapons choice here.

3.  Von Brunn claims his Social Security had been recently cut.  That should be easy to verify.

James W. von Brunn was growing despondent.

John de Nugent, an acquaintance who describes himself as a white separatist, noticed the change when they last spoke two weeks ago.

"He said his Social Security had been cut and that he was barely making it," de Nugent said. "He felt it was the direct result of someone in Washington looking at his Web site."

Was his Social Security cut with no legal proceeding because of his website?  Sounds like paranoid lunacy, but if it is true, the denials and cover-up will be comedy gold.

Well, the guy was a nutjob, so guessing at his motivation may be hopeless.  That said, economist Paul Krugman is a sufficiently insightful psychologist to know that von Brunn was set off by Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, and the Republican Party, even though the Buchanan wing of the party has been given the heave-ho.

Comments

[Dan D]

Tom, 30-30 rifles are among the most durable and simple long arms. Many country bumpkins have dragged an old Winchester or Marlin through the brush for years on end with little attention other than cleaning.

I wouldn't expect that rational thinking on choice of guns was a big part of this creep's actions. Sympathy to the guard's family, such a shame to lose a hero to this deranged jerk.

[Blue Ox]

Mr. von Brunn brought a .22-caliber rifle and a .30-30 rifle when he moved into an apartment in Annapolis, Md., two years ago, according to the affidavit. The police recovered the .30-30 as well as ammunition for a .22 from his bedroom after the museum attack.

No mention of finding 30-30 ammo. Maybe he didn't have any? (it would be less common to obtain)

Also nothing telling us if the .22 was a semi-auto vs. a bolt action .30-30, etc.

The .22 would also be lighter and smaller, therefore easier for an 88 year old to handle.

[verner]

TM, range was no issue, and I imagine the Nazi nut would have an easier time handling a .22 at "88.". And blue Ox your point about ammo is a good one too--as a felon, I doubt he could just walk into a gun shop and buy it.

I think this post is the coup de grace.

The guy was a nutter who hated Jews, Christians, neo-cons, the Weekly Standard, Fox News, George Bush, and the idea that the Twin Towers were taken down by islamofascists.

Not only was the guy not a conservative, conservatives were on his hit list.

Charles Johnson--you've been PWNED.

[Original MikeS]

I'm offended when famous liberals insist that, as a conservative, I am am somehow responsible for the actions of this crazy old man. I don't agree with von Brunn. I never read any of his writings or contributed to any of his causes, and I most certainly did not spend most Sundays, for the last 20 years, listening to him preach his hate.

[bored at work]

Four shots of a .22 would equal .88, no?

[Rocco]

Numbers and symbols are used by all gangs.

I believe there are 22 letters in the Hebrew alphabet. 22 x4 = 88. I wonder how many rounds were in the rifle?

[Porchlight]

I wonder what Jeremiah "Them Jews" Wright has to say about this.

[Rocco]

Sorry bored...didn't see your post

[Mark O]

The 88 gets even more sinister: it's the number of keys on a piano, and piano, as a music dynamic means soft, and Bach was one of the first to use that term in his notations, and, this is so telling, Bach was German.

Go figure.

[sbw]

Perhaps there is a scientific experiment here:

How long will ostensibly intelligent people read columnists whose writings include demonstrable gibberish before they recognize its lack of credibility and CEASE TO READ IT AT ALL!

One could set up one test case with Paul Krugman, another test case with Kos, another with Josh Marshall, etc.

I suspect one would answer the hypothesis with the conclusion that the pool of ostensibly intelligent people are not so much, and are instead, to paraphrase Richard Mitchell, at best clever children.

The initial question is recursive because Marshall will cite Kos who will cite Krugman. The only way to recover sanity is to step outside the destructive loop.

Which brings me to my point: Tom, you read all three.

[Mark O]

I forgot to mention what may well be the most important feature of 88:JFK. Had he not been killed by unknown and unseen forces, in 2005 he would have been 88.

[Jane]

OT

Rockefellor is guilty of Kidnapping and something else. (The 2 worst charges)

[Rocco]

An #88 tattoo

[GMax]

Well that would explain everything! JFK, of course.

[Rocco]

Another

[Ignatz]

Don't forget the best known and most lethal gun of the Nazis was the "German 88", an 88mm gun used as artillery, tank gun, AA, etc.

[GMax]

By the way my own experience is virtually all truthers are lefties. Well of course nazis being "National Socialists" are lefties too, the left just does not seem to want to claim them.

This guy was definitely a hater, and if he was posting on a bulletin board at HuffPo, there would have been a lot of amens.

[Jack is Back!]

Wikipedia on the neo-Nazi meaning of 88:

As a Neo-Nazi symbol
Eighty-eight is used as code among Neo-Nazis to identify each other.[2] H is the 8th letter of the alphabet, so 88 is taken to stand for HH which in turn means Heil Hitler.[1] For example, the number is used in the song "88 rock'n'roll band" by the neo-Nazi group Landser. The late convicted Order terrorist David Lane wrote "Fourteen Words" and 88 Precepts, and the numbers are often found in combination (1488, 14/88, etc.). This form of the number has inspired the naming of the groups Column 88, Unit 88, and White Legion 88.

[Richard Aubrey]

Ignatz.
Bill Mauldin, in his "Up Front" said that word of an 88 ahead would usually take the steam out of an Allied advance. He was speaking of small units.
He had a cartoon of an intel officer interviewing a German and saying angrily to a bystanding GI, "I'll let ya know if I find th' one wot invented th' eighty-eight."

[Cecil Turner]

I also thought the choice of a .22 was interesting. ISTM it does bolster the suicide-by-cop theory, because though a .22 is a fairly deadly weapon (it has good penetration and even a novice can be expected to have good accuracy with one), it has practically zero knockdown and doesn't make a lot of noise (comparatively speaking). So it will rarely stop people from shooting you, though it may kill them later. Hence it's a very bad choice for a multi-shooter shootout unless you're trying to get killed. And if the bios are correct (claiming this guy is a MENSA member), he may have had precisely that motivation.

A 30-30 is a very light rifle round (the lightest of what's generally considered a "deer rifle"--but still much more powerful than a pistol), usually a lever-action and relatively compact, and overall an outstanding choice. His chances of survival would've gone up appreciably; and judging by his size, he should've had no trouble handling it.

Both ammo types are ubiquitous and relatively unregulated (as opposed to pistol ammo). But I don't know if, as a convicted felon, he should've had to beg or borrow it. The biggest distinction between the two is price (.22 is much cheaper) . . . and I suspect that very mundane explanation is most likely.

[Original MikeS]

The number of 'sheets' in a standard roll of toilet paper is 352. 352 divided by 4 is 88!
Coincidence? I think not.

[Rocco]

Need more proof Mark O

[Jack is Back!]

How does the left reconcile the fact that they in most cases are pro-Palestinian when it comes to the conflict with Israel and people like Limbaugh, Beck, conservative bloggers (most) are on the side of Israel? How the hell can Krugman, supposedly a smart man, even rationalize his theory? Obama is a left wing Marxist by actions and compared to Bush he is more like the PR guy for Hamas and Hexbollah than any Saudi could ever be. Everybody is entitled to their opinion but not their own set of made up facts and history.

[Neo]

If "his Social Security cut" was the real reason for his rampage, then DHS left out a whole category of possible "domestic terrorists" and it's a category whose numbers are very likely to grow in the future.

[Neo]

Has anybody seen any verification of the reports that James von Brunn was registered as a Democrat in Maryland ?

[Ignatz]

--Bill Mauldin, in his "Up Front" said that word of an 88 ahead would usually take the steam out of an Allied advance.--

Richard,

My pop was a crew chief on B17s throughout the war and told me several times the aircrews were far more scared of the 88 flak than they were of German fighters.

[Jane]

Everybody is entitled to their opinion but not their own set of made up facts and history

WEll unless you are the President.

Victor Davis Hanson absolutely nails this issue: LUN

[Danube of Thought]

Per my rant of a while back, I'm just astonished that the Times didn't refer to it as a "high-powered" .30-30.

[PeterUK]

Why on earth did Krugman not note the significance of the number 88 being exactly 13 more than the number of trombones needed to lead the "Big Parade". Thirteen is itself a highly significant mystical prime number.
Coincidence? I think not!

[clarice]

PUK as usual is ahead of the crowd.

[Ignatz]

--it has good penetration--

You think so, Cecil? Not in my experience and especially not if it hits bone. Velocity and mass are too low. People have actually been struck in the forehead with a 22 rimfire, had the bullet travel subcutaneously around their skull and exit the back.
Of course at 10 feet just about anything will penetrate sufficently (including bone)to kill.

--Both ammo types are ubiquitous and relatively unregulated (as opposed to pistol ammo). But I don't know if, as a convicted felon, he should've had to beg or borrow it.--

As a felon he could still, albeit illegally, order ammo (including pistol) through the mail. IIRC all he need provide is a statement he was over 21 and it wasn't illegal in his locality. I think Mass may be the only state which prevents this, but I don't sell ammo, so I'm not sure, but I do know ammo sales are not subject to NICS.

[Ignatz]

--Why on earth did Krugman not note the significance of the number 88 being exactly 13 more than the number of trombones needed to lead the "Big Parade".--

Wouldn't that be twelve, PUK, or is that typical Krugman math?

[Pofarmer]

The only way to recover sanity is to step outside the destructive loop.

Unfortunately, the purveyors of the loop are now ensconced in our govt.

[Jack is Back!]

Speaking of Music Man:

Mothers of Potomac River City!
Heed the warning before it's too late!
Watch for the tell-tale sign of corruption!
The moment he sees Pelosi or Murtha come into the house,
Does he see them hide things in their secret pockets above the knee?
Is there a nicotine stain on his index finger, just like O's?
A copy of The Nation hidden in the corn crib?
Is he starting to memorize jokes from Nasty Dave's
Late Night Show?
Are certain words creeping into his conversation?
Words like 'racist?"
And 'that is so Nazi like"
Well, if so my friends,
Ya got trouble,
Right here in Potomac River city!
With a capital "T"
And that rhymes with "P"
And that stands for Politics.
We've surely got trouble!
Right here in Potomac River City!
Remember the Maine, Plymouth Rock and the Golden Rule!
Oh, we've got trouble.
We're in terrible, terrible trouble.
That game with the 88 and 8 ball is a devil's tool!
Oh yes we got trouble, trouble, trouble!
With a "T"! Gotta rhyme it with "P"!
And that stands for Pathetic politics!!!

[Pofarmer]

I don't know if I would go looking for rationality in this guys choice of weapons. 30-30, as far as I know, are all lever actions with a tube feed magazine. They have a high rate of fire and are highly effective at close range, shooting a 150 grain(typically) snub nose bullet at about 1100fps(IIRC). I believe my 30/30 Marlin holds seven rounds. It is pretty time consuming to reload, as you must push each bullet in one at a time by hand. Last 30/30 I bought was around 17 bucks for 20 rounds. I am assuming per the comments, the .22 was a semi automatic. It would shoot a around a 36grain round at up to 1100 fps. Most 22's hold between 11-15 rounds. If it was clip fed, it could be reloaded quickly. Tube fed would be very similar to the 30/30. .22 typically costs between $7 or so for 500 rounds of cheap ammo to $7 for 50 rounds of good match grade ammo. Depending on the size of the 22, physical size probably doesn't vary much between the two. Felt recoil would be much greater for the 30/30, and it would be much easier to find a place to practice with the .22.

[Cecil Turner]

Not in my experience and especially not if it hits bone. Velocity and mass are too low.

The 22LR is probably the most underrated round in existence. Here's an interesting test where the guy shoots through a turkey @ 250/300 yds. It's not the most powerful round in existence, and suffers badly from long range or short barrels, but a standard (high velocity LR) round from a rifle is deadly at close range.

I've heard many times it accounts for more deaths in the US than any other caliber (often cited as "all other calibers combined"), though I can't substantiate that one. Probably more an indicator of how common it is (and of the proportion of kids using it), but still.

[PeterUK]

Ignatz,
Twelve is even more significant,Twelve Apostles,obviously Brunn didn't count himself,twelve months in the year,Twelve Days of Christmas,Twelfth Night,a dozen.
I think you might be on to something here.

[Richard Aubrey]

Ignatz.
My father was an Infantry plaoon leader in the ETO. He said the tankers hated the 88. It was a hell of a tank-killer. Rommel was the one who took them out of their AA role and began using them against Brit tanks in North Africa.

[Danube of Thought]

I think the whole thing was a plot to humiliate me for being 86'd from two gin mills this month.

[bad]

Isn't 88 the collective IQ at the NYT?

[Ignatz]

--The 22LR is probably the most underrated round in existence.--

Cecil,

Agreed. It's probably my favorite.
I'm just saying for thick skin or bone it has relatively little penetration.

OTOH, the Israelis apparently use it for assasinations (small pistols at extremely short range) so it does the job up close, as the unfortunate guard's death demonstrates.

[toronado]

And let us not forget that many Oldsmobiles bore the model designation 88, (Rocket, Delta, Holiday,) and General Motors was just nationalized three short years after discontinuing the Oldsmobile line. Coincidence? I think not.

[Ignatz]

--Ignatz,
Twelve is even more significant..

PUK,

Especially for Obama. The Hajj is the fifth pillar of Islam and they toddle around the old Ka'bah or Kabob or whatever that big velvet rock is, seven times. 5+7, hmmm.

[Phelps]

Ditto the others. A 30-30 is almost certainly a lever action, and the .22 was probably semi-auto. I guess it's a good thing he was Navy instead of Army; the Army guy would probably have taken the 30-30 and done more damage.

[Ignatz]

--Ignatz.
My father was an Infantry plaoon leader in the ETO. He said the tankers hated the 88. It was a hell of a tank-killer.--

Well Richard, the 88 was a terror no doubt, but despite my earlier comments on the .22, I'm afraid IT would have been pretty rough on a Sherman. :(

I believe they put 88s on panzers themselves as main guns didn't they?

BTW my uncle was infantry (can't remember rank) from Normandy to Germany.

[Jack is Back!]

Did you see where Bill Gates and Warren Buffet were disguised as Japanese tourists trying to get into Switzerland from Italy?

LUN

[Jack is Back!]

That didn't work but this will link!

[Cecil Turner]

Rommel was the one who took them out of their AA role and began using them against Brit tanks in North Africa.

I've seen that claim before, but it's dubious (and probably traces back to this action in France '40). The 88 was used in the Spanish Civil War in 1937, and more than 90% of its ammunition used in the Catalonian campaign was for ground targets.

There were also dedicated anti-tank versions of the 88 developed, and German heavy tanks (e.g., Tiger, King Tiger, JagdPanther) also had 88's for their main armament (luckily there weren't many of them, and they weren't terribly reliable).

[David]

Von Brunn was a frequent poster on the far-rightwing hate site "Free Republic".

His hateful screed "Obama is Missing" is signed by him, IN HIS FULL NAME, James W. von Brunn, on December 02, 2008

It is still up on that site... check it out before it's removed.

His Free Republic nick was "wannabegeek"... read his other rightwing hate posts.

I don't know why the MSM is not covering this.

Google "Obama is Missing"

Here is a compilation of von Brunn's racist rants on the far rightwing hate site, "Free Republic".

See for yourself the thoughts of a racist, murdering rightwinger before they "vanish"...

http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/by:wannabegeek/index?tab=comments;brevity=full;options=no-change

[MayBee]

Really? An 88-year old man had a nickname of wannabegeek?

[MayBee]

David- I think you have that wrong.
It looks like a user named "wannabegeek" posted something von Brunn had posted at another website, DN.no. You can see the original at TPM.

What was posted of his was certainly not nazi or far-right, it was merely suspicious of Obama.

[PeterUK]

Odd that nobody has mentioned it is the Twelfth of June ,12/06/09 or to you 06/12/09.
Two many numbers divisible by three - Brunn had a 30-30.
This numerology lark is most interesting,no wonder Krugman went into it instead of getting a day job.

[Original MikeS]

Have you had your meds today David?

[Enlightened]

Poor David.....leftwing-hate, talking point memos for breakfast....you must be studying up for your Master Cleanse.

[PeterUK]

"Obama is Missing"

Obama was missing right up until he was elected.

[verner]

To: Blogger

I’m always praying that the SCOTUS will uphold the constitution.

5 posted on Thursday, January 01, 2009 3:54:45 AM by wannabegeek
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Monday, December 08, 2008 2:38:36 PM · 6 of 22
wannabegeek to jetxnet
After SCOUS denied challenge to BHO's COLB, I'm feeling like America's capital got nuked (figuratively!), no more Washington, D.C., no more SCOUS, no more POTUS, no more Senate, no more Congress, nobody there cares about the constitution anymore! I don't listen to Rush, Hanity anymore, nor watch FNC anymore. I do listen to Christian radio, watch TBN, Daystar until they'll pass fairness doctrine!

Saturday, November 22, 2008 1:26:52 PM · 65 of 267
wannabegeek to Frantzie; BP2; unspun
.... We all thought if we lost the MSM we would at least have the Internet. Well you know who is good pals with Google. Leo’s web site and all the Blogtext sites just disappear. Leo and all Americans are being silenced.

The http://www.blogtext.org is unreachable due to Distributed Denial of Service by oThugs. Why don't Leo mirror his web site contents to other sites like wordpress.com where African Press International also hosted? Or blogspot.com where Lame Cherry is hosted. How about typepad.com where Atlas Shugs is hosted? Just mirror the web contents to as to multiple host sites.
Post Reply | Private Reply | To 55 | View Replies

FOr all of you who may be wondering why I posted this stuff...

It is pretty obvious that wannabegeek:
1) Is a Christian who listens to Christian Radio

2)Knows about and reads Blogger Atlas Shrugged, who happens to be a lovely extremely pro-Israel Jewish woman whom I have met. And anybody who has ever seen her plog knows exactly where she's comming from.

3) Prays.

4) Never posted much on the site, hasn't posted since Jan 1 2009.

5) Doesn't have anything on the site that mirrors the anti-Semite/pro Nazi views of James Von Brunn.

6)Is a follower of Obama Birth Certificate news, a "movement" that was started by a Hillary Clinton Supporter.

I'm going to have to see more proof that the shooter and wannabegeek are the same person.

[Enlightened]

Sheesh...Obama is still missing. My husband can fix it - he's a mechanic. By the sound of him, he might be running on single cylinder - so yeah, that would make his engine - miss, ie: Bambi is still missing.

Go away dipwad and spew your crap elsewhere.

Tell your mothership to try and keep 14 and 18 year-old women out of the hate speech joke circuit as another step towards your nirvanic cleanse.

[Original MikeS]

I'm thinking someone should try to get David some help before he goes all numerological on us.

[verner]

You guys are right, he just submitted an article from Von Brunn that had been posted on another forum. He probably didn't realize VB was a Nazi.

As far as I know, Jim Robinson at FR is pretty good at weeding out racists etc. He would not allow Spotlight articles, and simular garbage to be posted on the forum. Though sometimes nutcases may get through until they show their true faces, start disrupting things and get kicked off.

As a general rule though, White Supremacists and conspiracy kooks don't like conservative sites.

[verner]

I wonder how far the VonBrunn is a freeper stuff gets around before they realize they have messed up and are totally wrong.

[verner]

HaHaHa. There are already 2000 google hits for James Von Brunn and Freeper.

SUCKERS!

[Enlightened]

"before they realize they have messed up and are totally wrong."

They never get to this point....the old talking points line their crate as they eagerly await a new poop-worthy list.....

[Enlightened]

Sad and OT - Patrick Kennedy into rehab- again. I feel for the guy.

And double sad - Chastity Bono turning into a man? I have a cousin who went from girl to man, he is only in his twenties and knew when he was a kid that his wires were crossed. "Chaz" Bono has had a rougher go of it I think. I just feel for them. Life's hard enough without having the added burden of not really knowing who you are.....

[MayBee]

How did that username for an 88-year old man NOT make them take a second to reexamine what they were looking at? Where is common sense anymore?

[verner]

I can remember Chastity Bono as a tot on her mom and dad's TV show.

Oy, The surgery for that sort of thing is horrendous, even when you're adding instead of subtracting.

I just don't know about all that...

[PeterUK]

Verner,
"HaHaHa. There are already 2000 google hits for James Von Brunn and Freeper."

Why should there be 2000 google hits for James Von Brunn and Freeper? It seems extraordinary that there should be 2000 google hits for James Von Brunn and Freeper.

But if you say there are already 2000 google hits for James Von Brunn and Freeper,I shall take your word that there are 2000 google hits for James Von Brunn and Freeper.
Odd name though James von Brunn Freeper.

[Jack is Back!]

I wonder if this poster was hanging in the foyer of the museum near the x-ray machine or the front door that Stephen Johns opened for 88. Note that it is focused on "workplace violence" not right-wing nut jobs or left-wing registered democrats with a beef with Bill Krystol Rich Lowry.

Courtesy of the DHS by the way.

[verner]

It has nothing to do with common sense MayBee. They just want to distract attention from the fact that other than being a fan of "88", Von Brunn's philosophy was almost identical to "Progressives."

The freepers also dug up some stuff where he supported socialism, just like the original Nazis.

As for wannabegeek, if you look at the forum where he found JVB's post, there's nothing to indicate that it supports a white supremist agenda. I feel quite sure he had no idea who the guy was.

And with hundreds of articles, and thousands of posts put on the freerepublic.com site everyday, you've got to expect that the more mainstream thoughts of a few shady characters will get through.

As for FR in general, it is my understanding that they will absolutely NOT permit anything of a racist or anti-semitic character, and if posted, it gets pulled immediately. They also have many African- American and Jewish posters, and are strong supporters of Israel. Not to mention, not too many registered democrats like JVB there either.

Not exactly the type of place JVB would favor.

So if I were the think progressive site, think I'd pull the post that mentions FR. As more stuff starts coming up, the more left the guy looks.

[Enlightened]

I admit when I found out about my cousin I was just EEEWWWW. But he is totally cool. Talking about it, he is not flamboyant in any way, lives a very dignified quiet life in the midwest and is not getting any operations until he is older because of hormonal issues. That is why I feel for Chaz Bono - he took so much longer to get to point B than my cousin and it HAD to be emotionally devastating. My cousin is lucky because his parents are super supportive, as is his extended family of cousins, grandmas, aunts, uncles and his brother etc...anyway I hope Bono can find happiness - I think he has been very unhappy most of his life.

[toronado]

Pardon me for being cynical, but (and I love the writer Jan Morris) I never bought into the whole man trapped in a woman's body vice versa theory. I do feel tremendous sympathy for someone who is so screwed up mentally that they think that mutilating the genitalia they were born with is going to somehow make them happier. But who knows? Sexuality is a very complicated subject.

[verner]

PUK, just an indication that there are 2000 little nutroots in the axelturf...The busy bees were pollinating a faux story, and now look pretty silly--as usual.

[clarice]

Wonder if those "Japanese" trying to get into Switzerland with millions of dollars worth of bonds were really North Koreans..and if so, why?

[Porchlight]

I once met a man who had become a woman and then didn't like it and changed back. He'd had the surgery and everything.

I also have a female cousin who married a woman who had changed into a man. But he hadn't had the surgery yet. I never understood why it was legal for them to marry. How did he prove to the state that he was male? It was only a matter of taking hormones at that point, since no surgery had been performed. Stop taking the hormones, back to female, right? I didn't want to pry so I never asked. The marriage didn't last very long.

[Harrison]

He was a nut job... to bring a 22 to a gun fight is silly. Glad he didn't bring the heavier round or more people might have died but, then again, I guess he wasn't a man of high caliber.

[Enlightened]

Sincerely - I felt the same way toronado...but when I met my cousin after he "changed" I was amazed. He is very intelligent and funny, and when you hear him tell his story, and when you see him, and when he explains why he is NOT mutilating his genitalia for a very long time - I was totally impressed. He is such a good hearted person, for me - I got over the weirdness pretty quickly. But that's just me. He is well aware of the controversy surrounding his life...

Funny though, when he was a young girl, I never thought he was "boyish" so I was like - WTF? He is cute in a Peter Pan-ish way - he could get away with looking girlish or boyish so maybe that played a roll in my perceptions...

Anyway....he isn't an activist-type - he sincerely just wants to live his life as a man, quietly going about his business....

[Pofarmer]

So, Free Republic is a right wing hate sight, and emptywheel, Daily Kos, DU, Huffington post et al are just run of the mill news sites?

[laura]

As far as transgender goes, read Paul McHugh's article on the subject. He was the chief psychiatrist at John Hopkins when they still did operations. His comments refer primarily if IRC to male to female surgery. They will no longer perform them due to extensive observation that this was a psychiatric issue and not some accident of birth. Basically he found the reasons had nothing to do with actually wanting to be the opposite gender in its reality and had to do with a variety of psychiatric illnesses and guilt and sexual deviancy motivations.
LUN

[clarice]

I think the meme about FR being a hate site and Limbaugh a racist spewer of hate are to scare off the muddle and denigrate the opposition.

And it mostly works.

[verner]

Laura, I think I'm leaning towards that explanation too. I think you're dealing with gay and lesbian people who, for what ever reason, can't handle it, and feel that somehow, they will be more "normal" and accepted when they have the parts to match the hetero world.

Though taking on he opposite gender is a pretty common phenomenon cross-culturally. It's just in the last thirty or so years that we've had the medical know how to make it happen in fact--so who knows?

By the way, I do think that the evidence is irrefutable some gays and lesbians are "born" that way.

Porch, are you sure they were legally married?

[hit and run]

verner:
The busy bees were pollinating a faux story, and now look pretty silly--as usual

Look silly to whom?

To you and me, sure. But with their little games, they're just as likely to get MSNBC and CNN and probably the nets to mention the "far right wing hate sight free republic" angle in the same sentence as von Brunn as they are to be made to feel silly about anything.

All they care about is getting their lies half way around the world before truth gets its boots on.

Speaking Truth Lies to Power Megaphones!

[Porchlight]

Actually, verner, I'm not. I know there was a ceremony and I saw the photo afterwards, but now that you mention it, it's entirely possible that a ceremony is all there was. I'll ask my mom.

It was actually the saddest wedding photo I've ever seen. The parents were all beaming, as you would expect, but the bride, groom and their wedding party were totally glum. I think they were trying to look serious. Not a one of them was over 25 - my cousin was only 22. She's an odd one - I don't think anyone was too surprised when they split up.

[verner]

Luckily hit, no one watches MSNBC or CNN any more. And if the nets say it, without proof, I would imagine that Jim Robinson could get the lawyers after them.

Look at what evidence backs up the claim that JVB was associated with his site--one little 100 word post put up by someone who didn't even know who JVB was.

[Enlightened]

Well, I'm fairly certain my cousin does not have a physical abnormality that swayed him into maleness from femaleness. He does take hormones, he has not had breast surgery and doesn't plan to (he's pretty flat anyway, he currently binds his chest to make it appear flatter and he wears clothing that does not accentuate the breast area) and he has no plans to have his genitalia changed, he indicated he might revisit that when he's in his fifties which is roughly 25 years from now. He does not have a sexual relationship with anyone, he said he is too young to make that commitment without better understanding where he is at mentally. So I can safely say he is not a sexual deviant, he is not a psychiatric mess and I know he has gone to therapy for the whole thing. He's not even contemplating fixing his parts to fix his sexuality...I don't know - I'm ok with him, he is not weird looking, he is an insurance salesman, he likes to "flip" houses and he just doesn't act weird. He doesn't over-do his "manliness" to appear more manlike...if you met him and didn't know, you would never even suspect.

I'll take his kind of mental crazy over someone like a Code Pinko any day. But again -it's just me and he is my family member so I am admittedly biased.

[Sue]

I have a female acquaintance whose father had himself changed into a female. I don't know how long it has been since they were able to perform the surgery, but it has been 35 years at least since he changed. And yes, his children are screwed up. They have never seen "her" since the day he left. She found a letter written to her mother in her father's handwriting signed by "Kay". That is how they found out. They scrutinized all the women at their grandfather's funeral to see if they could tell if he/she was there. If he/she was, they didn't find out. Anyway, I don't understand it, but if you are mixed up like that, the best thing to do is limit your screw ups to yourself.

[Sue]

My mother went to school with "him". She said he was always an odd duck, but sweet.

[hit and run]

verner:
Luckily hit, no one watches MSNBC or CNN any more.

My contention isn't that two cable news networks are what'll carry the message in and of themselves -- but that there is a structural advantage to the lefty meme express, of which MSNBC and CNN are a part.

Not a small structural advantage, either.

Think of it this way...what will the proverbial lady in the grocery store checkout say next week? That von Brunn was an anti-semitic, anti-Christian, anti-neocon whack job? Or that he was a right-wing white supremecist spawned by the likes of Rush?

Because really, should the story begin moving toward the "whacked out lefty" side of things, it will be dropped, and those peddaling the faux story will shrug their shoulders, with no hint of feeling silly, and tell each other, "better luck next time".

The lady at the check out will either know von Brunn as a right wing white supremicist or she will know nothing of him.

I would imagine that Jim Robinson could get the lawyers after them.

You probably would imagine that Kobe Bryant could beat me in one-on-one, but we'll never see that, either.

Punk. I could take him (Kobe, not Jim R) ;-)

[Janet]

Listening to Rush today (WMAL in the DC area) one of the ads was for...get this...Bermuda! I feel so bad for them, getting the terrorists. Their ad campaign is "Feel the Love"...

[Neo]

While there doesn’t seem to be much dispute that Von Brunn was a nut job, the cause for his homicidial actions seem to be more mere conjecture by those who want to project their enemies onto him.

What's known ? First, there are indications that Von Brunn was a registered Democrat from Maryland, a known “hot bed” of radicals. There has also been some banter about Von Brunn being upset at a “reduction in his Social Security.”

Social Security recepients as a group of possible trouble makers seems to have been overlooked by the recent DHS study, and, if a “reduction in his Social Security” was the cause of this rampage, there will be lots of trouble ahead.

Only time will tell if Von Brunn did, in fact, go "Social" ??

[bad]

O/T but the youngest bad is into Glen Beck.

[narciso]

This qualifies as deep analysis of politics
at NPR and the Carnegie Endowment

[narciso]

Krugman, amuses me to no end, wasn't he the one that compared Bush to Marcos, and said
that he feared being shipped off to Gitmo.
Careful Paul, those helicopter blades are awfully sharp.

[narciso]

Now Krugman, said this in Spiegel, not his Times column, but the point still applies:

BTW in light of events, yesterday that were
ratified today, this tidbit from Time seems
off somehow:

[Pofarmer]

Barbara Boxer.

Chairs the committee in charge of VA hospitals, while indicting the Bush administration over the condition of said hospitals. Also funnels billions of dollars of govt contracts to her husband. Still in Congress.

Nancy Pelosi.

Caught funneling 10's of Billions of govt contracts to her husband. Outright lies about what the CIA told her and when. Still speaker of the House.

Harry Reid.

Tied to insider land deals with his sons, who are lawyers and land sharks in Nevada. Still Senate Majority Leader.

William Jefferson, D. Louisiana. Caught with 100,000 in bribe money in his freezer. Major furor when the FBI shows up to search his offices AFTER they had recovered the money from his house. Still in the House.

Need I go on?

We. Are. So. Screwed.

[Danube of Thought]

Ah, what the hell. If the progressive weenies are all scared to death that some right-wing nutjob is gonna pop 'em, what's so bad about that? Let 'em tremble an moan with fear.

[Rocco]

What do you make of this biography submitted by the artist in 2002?

[Charlie (Colorado)]

How did he prove to the state that he was male?

how would you?

Seriously. I don't recall a physical examination when I got my marriage license.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Ah, what the hell. If the progressive weenies are all scared to death that some right-wing nutjob is gonna pop 'em, what's so bad about that?

Well, there's the part about how they seem to consistently do the things they're accusing the Right of doing....

[Enlightened]

Seriously the shooter was a painter? Watch the leftards start swooping up his crap paintings - I bet William Ayers would slap one into his "gallery"

[Ralph L]

had to do with a variety of psychiatric illnesses
Namely, insufficient castration anxiety.
So Narciso has to bring up the Carnegie Endowment, but I don't think a black helicopter blade is required to snip off Paul's wang. I'm surprised anti-gay Nazis would miss the obvious nuts-in-buggery symbolism of "88."

There, I've tied up everyone's conversations into a nice knot.

[Sue]

===Seriously. I don't recall a physical examination when I got my marriage license.===

You gave them something that said you were male. A driver's license. A birth certificate.