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July 27, 2009

Comments

narciso

That's the point, Maybee, "Nothing to see, here, these are not the droids, we're looking for"

MayBee

I have called 911 twice in my life- both times when (like this caller) I was unsure 911 really needed to be called, but would have felt horrible if I found out later their services were necessary and I hadn't called.

Once, I was a high school student in Washington DC, walking through a park with my friends. A man was writhing on the ground, saying he's dying, and begging for help. Nobody paid any attention. I called, but in hindsight I'm sure he was just drunk.

The second time, about 10 years ago, we were driving through Chicago and I saw a bunch of guys at a train station kicking a man who was laying on the ground and then throwing him onto the tracks. I called from the car as we kept driving, trying to give as many details as I could. the 911 operator didn't seem especially interested, and I never read anything about it in the paper later and thought maybe I had been stupid to call.

I feel like I can really relate to this woman, and I feel horrible for her that she's been called racist for making the decision to call in.

Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet

There is always someone who will criticize most actions people take in emergencies.

Those of us who remember the horrors of the Kitty Genovese case many years ago, probably believe it is better to call 911 than not to when witnessing a potential emergency. For what it's worth, I think MB's calls were both highly appropriate.

Molon Labe

Where is link to tape of dispatcher call (not 911 call)?

willem

Balko has his finger on a huge issue that deserves our collective attention. I marvel how in this particular episode concerning police and race, the establishment racialists make no reference whatsoever to the murder of Kathryn Johnson in her Atlanta home during a bogus no knock raid by Atlanta police in the middle of the night. Contrast that grotesque behavior and the resulting attempted cover up with the professional discipline and restraint of the Cambridge officers who so far seem to have given a clinic on how to conduct responsible police operations.

However, I'm left with a question -- a point of policy --can police abandon the commons to a raving, unstable and hostile individual in the throes of a rampaging tantrum? Can they just turn their backs and leave?

My hunch is they can't just walk away and abandon the commons to the whims of rampaging hostile behavior; the antagonist either chills out or they get cuffed and taken to the station where someone else can take a shot at talking some sense into them.

Maybe somebody can clarify this point for me.


DebinNC

Watching the tape, Gates' porch is very close to the sidewalk. He wouldn't have had to yell for the gathering crowd to hear what he was saying. I can see a big crowd of curious neighbors and passers-by outside, drawn by the police cars at the curb. There was no need for him to yell.

Original MikeS

I think Professor Gates saw an opportunity and he didn't want to let it go to waste. He tried unsuccessfully to goad Sgt. Crowley into behaving irresponsibly. When all else failed Gates followed Crowley outside still yelling and accusing Crowley of racial bias.

At that point, what had Crowley done that Gates found offensive? Officer Crowley showed up at Gates' door, which was damaged so badly that it was un securable, and asked Gates for his ID. As a brilliant professor and an expert on racial bias, shouldn't we expect that Gates could explain to us, what was so offensive about Crowley's behaviour?

Is there a reason why some people find it humiliating to show there ID? (Or birth certificate?)

boris

Would a black cop be accused of abuse for arresting a publicly hostile and belligerent antagonist using the n-word?

Doubt Balko would have a problem with it.

Molon Labe

Found dispatcher tape

Dan

Jane... there's not a chance in Hades that is really Clarence Thomas tweeting.

Original MikeS

there-their

Jane

I dunno, he just announce the publication of a book so we will see. Other than that he mostly talks about food.

DebinNC

Is there a way of knowing if additional audio is available that they're not releasing. That dispatcher tape sounds like only a snippet of something more.

sdferr

Here's a longer version of the tape, a total of 7:28 running time, with both the 911 and dispatch and cross coummunication. The rumor of an open mike isn't fullfilled, apparently.

bad

Perhaps the police had previous tips regarding the earlier burglaries and two black males.

DebinNC

Anyone really interested in a teachable moment on race should watch this, especially the very end. Where's my hankie?

centralcal

bad: you might be right about previous tips. Also, I think a dispatcher does try to nail some sort of description for very obvious reasons - race, clothing, size (tall, short, fat skinny), age, etc. - anything to aid responders rushing to the scene.

Molon Labe

Interesting they had problems communicating with "52" (who must be Crowley). Dispatcher saying "Sir, can you repeat", several attempts to contact him on channel 2, "18, I did not copy 52's last when he came on channel 2".

Corroborates Crowley's statement that communication was difficult inside the house.

Ruy Diaz

"That's it? Gates had committed no crime, therefore he was free to heap as much abuse as he wanted on the police? Couldn't Gates have made his points forcefully but politely, or would that have been "capitulation"?"

That is--if you'd forgive the expression--typical libertarian utopianism. If an outraged citizen yells and abuses a police officer, the police officer should take it until the end of time.

No man should be asked to take that kind of abuse, let alone one who risks his life in the process of doing his job. Outraged yelling can escalate into more--and it's dangerous as it is, as the police rely on respect from the citizens to do things like crowd/mob control. If you behave the way Gates is alleged to have behaved you SHOULD be booked. That's no way to treat a fellow citizen; it is no way to undermine an institution on which civil society depends.

Mountainaires

Yes, we just don't know about Sgt. Crowley. But we do have numerous facts about his past behavior--like mouth to mouth resusitation to save Reggie Lewis, and his selection by the Department to train other officers in cultural awareness. On the other hand, we know for a fact--according to the report and passers-by and Whalen that Professor Gates engaged in "racial profiling" because his first response to Sgt. Crowley accused Crowley of racism; and despite repeated warnings to calm down, Gates continued to abuse the police officer verbally. Gates committed a verbal assault on the police officer responding to a call at his home address. We know that for a fact. So, let's cut to the chase here: You've got a thin thread of speculation about Sgt. Crowley and since you've read the arrest report, you have the facts about Professor Gates--yet you ignored them. Your argument is specious; an obvious attempt to smear Sgt Crowley further using speculation. The Department issued a public statement that they backed up Sgt. Crowley completely; other officers at the scene agreed that Crowley had both a right and a duty to place an out of control individual under arrest--and in fact, there is nothing unusual about arresting persons in their home, as anyone who knows anything about domestic violence is well aware. A person who is as out of control as Prof. Gates obviously was at that moment can be a dangerous individual. Officers are responsible for securing the scene, as well as protecting the community. No one who didn't know Prof. Gates personally, could have witnessed his conduct and heard him screaming, without wondering whether or not he was a danger to himself or others.

centralcal

Excellent link, DebinNC!

Pagar

Is there a reason why some people find it humiliating to show there ID? (Or birth certificate?)

Check the arguments made by the Democrats when they are battling against voter Photo ID. They always throw in the fact that their voters are not able to get photo ID, because they are not able to get to the license dept or some excuse that they are too poor. Ignoring the part that poor would normally qualify one for some government assistance, such as food stamps, which often would require Photo ID.

fdcol63

Gates wanted to create a racial incident with a white cop, and he did.

End of story.

clarice

Well, surely SNL (if it still exists) will make fun of Gates this week. No?

Original MikeS

Gates wanted to create a racial incident with a white cop, and he did.
End of story.

P.S. And he also ginned up interest in his books and movies about racial victimization.

Brett

Why do people think Gates was arrested for no crime? He was arrested for Disorderly Conduct. He refused at first to provide proof he was the homeowner. He was uncooperative and verbally abusive. In California that crime is called Delaying and Obstructing an officer in the performance of his duty. While that cop is wasting his time on an incident that took 30 minutes when it could have taken ten minutes it affects public safety.

Next time you need a cop and you are being assaulted and seconds count, but that cop is busy asking some jerk the same question 20 times because the jerk won't comply with perfectly reasonable questions then maybe you'll understand the serious of that crime.

Old Dad

What Brett said.

And what's more, Sgt. Crowley must assume that there cold be another suspect in the house, maybe two. It was his duty to secure the scene and Gates was obstructing.

jimmyk

Sgt. Crowley must assume that there cold be another suspect in the house, maybe two.

Can you imagine the (justifiable, in this case) outrage if Crowley had just left without further investigation, and it turned out that someone was holding a hostage in the house and had forced Gates to respond angrily? Is there any doubt that the Al Sharptons of the world would have charged police indifference because the victims were black?

And I reiterate, since someone else repeated the charge: Crowley states on tape that he did not vote for Obama. LUN

Original MikeS

What Brett said.
Yeh, what Brett said.

hrtshpdbox

Why do people think Gates was arrested for no crime?

Because the President of the United States, who millions of people voted for less than a year ago, pretty much said so, live on national TV. A lot of people also believed him when he said he'd cut tax rates for the middle class.

GMax

Goes to show you should not believe everything you read on the internet. I had read that Crowley voted for Obama. The Police Union certainly endorsed him.

If he says he did not, I cant think that there is any better evidence available, given its a secret ballot.

So I take it back, Crowley apparently did not vote for Obama. He should be wary of the intent of two hustlers and keep his wits about him when microphones are invariably shoved into his face and leading questions are asked.

Extraneus

So no evidence from that tapes that Gates mouthed off or wouldn't calm down?

Peter UK

Getting back to the crux of this. There would have been nothing but an altercation between Gates and the police,which would have been smoothed over in due course.Happens everywhere.
Then the President took time off from two wars,the biggest economic collapse in decades,spiralling unemployment,the most gargantuan spending projects,probably in the history in the history of the human race,to intervene in this trivial fracas,turning it into a seething cauldron of partisan and racial internecine strife.
And Obama has only been in power for six months,think what he could do with nuclear weapons.

Extraneus

I thought Drudge said police union endorsed McCain. I could swear he did.

GMax

Here is a cut and paste from the campaign days re the Police Unions endorsement of Obama:


Today, the Obama-Biden campaign is holding a conference call with Senator Joe Biden to proudly announce the endorsement of the National Association of Police Organizations (NAPO). NAPO President Tom Nee will join Senator Biden on the call and the two will talk about Senator Obama’s strong track record on law enforcement issues, support for law enforcement officers and commitment to keeping our communities safe.

NAPO represents more than 2,000 police unions and associations, 238,000 sworn law enforcement officers, 11,000 retired officers and more than 100,000 citizens who share a common dedication to fair and effective crime control and law enforcement.

Extraneus

Here it is. Drudge headline Friday was WHITE HOUSE: POLICE ENDORSED MCCAIN

"I think the Fraternal Order of Police endorsed McCain," Gibbs fired back at reporters, referring to Obama's Republican opponent in the 2008 election. "If I'm not mistaken."

Extraneus

Can't believe everything Gibbs says, either, huh GMax?

Captain Hate

Well, surely SNL (if it still exists) will make fun of Gates this week. No?

That comment's the only thing related to SNL that's made me laugh since that fat slob Chris Farley died.

Dave (in MA)

Reuters-05SEP08: FOP Endorses McCain!!!

Pofarmer

Well, that was interesting. I just called another farmer regarding a local matter. He commented out of the Blue on the Gates matter that "it's sure clear who the racists are here" and he didn't mean Crowley. In General, I'd say the guy is a moderate. Barack Hussein is pissin' people off, and they're starting to get vocal about it.

Dave (in MA)

SNL does still exist, but they have always taken the summer off. If they did do a skit on this, they'd surely portray Ø in the best light possible, and they'd probably figure out a way to work Palin into it.

Strawman Cometh

Professor Gates has been designing, describing, forming, molding, carving his hammer and carrying it around for his entire life. Sgt. Crowley, who came on the scene to protect the good professor and his property, was the closest approximation to a nail the prof had ever encountered.

DebinNC link to video should be front paged. LUN

Jane

Barack Hussein is pissin' people off, and they're starting to get vocal about it.

That's the best news I've heard all day.

Extraneus

Great link, Deb. I missed it the first time; you're right about the hankie.

Charlie

What's being left out of this discussion:

What Obama referred to as "acting stupidly" are actually, for the most part, procedures implemented in the wake of women's groups lobbying for years for greater steps to combat domestic violence. No more ID check, quick glance around then donut time.

As part of that, police pay attention to demeanor and compliance with requests as signs that everything's cool. Someone who is overwrought and reluctant to comply can often be an indicator of a crime on-going--hostage situation, person lying unconscious in another room, whatever.

And so, it is doubtful Gates would have been arrested for his words alone, EXCEPT if he went so far as to threaten to call on his friends the mayor, the governor and the president to make life miserable for these cops, then it became prudent for them to arrest him in order for them to get the facts into an arrest report, a public document. As this case has played out, we can see that it is good for them they did.

Pofarmer

OH, and the same farmer who mentioned the Gates incident said "Maybe Palin can save us."

Yes, people are noticing. I've NEVER discussed politics locally before.

norar

Peter UK, I agree with you completely. The matter was overblown to distruct from Obama's latest failed press-conference and sagging approval ratings. The irony is that Obama messed up this relatively negligible incident royally as well.

Media is rooting for Obama, of course. I'm curious to see how many non-issues will be forced on us in the next 3+ years, as a result of the president's failing policies.

Pofarmer

then it became prudent for them to arrest him in order for them to get the facts into an arrest report, a public document.

That's been my take on it, too. Crowley wanted to create a paper trail.

bad

Robin Givhan hates the mom jeans but is less nasty about it than she was about the Alito family.

That said, she knows when to use "evoke" rather than "invoke," unlike the presidebt during his Hirohito moment.

LUN

jimmyk

The more I think about this, the more I'm inclined toward the view that there was something going on that Gates wanted to hide. That seems to be the the best explanation for his over-the-top response. It's a classic way to divert attention from the thing being concealed. No idea what it would be, but there's the mysterious second "intruder," the suspicious charities, the unwillingness to admit that he behaved inappropriately (which he would have done if this were just due to fatigue).

clarice

The Dems su re strike hard at the average working guy, don't they? F irst Joe the Plumber, then James Crowley ---and certainly the take on Palin from them is that she's stupid hick prole--So plumbers, cops, hunting and fishing mom-governors of handicapped children are all fair game.

(Let me look up the words to the Internationale..I think something's wrong here.)

Porchlight

If I had to pick one thing that infuriates me most about liberal Dems, clarice, it would have to be the vicious snobbery.

clarice

Me, too, especially as they are such morons they have no right to look down their noses at people who are definitely not.

jimmyk

The Dems sure strike hard at the average working guy

O is an equal opportunity offender. He also insulted the medical profession with his "go to the doctor with a sore throat, get a tonsillectomy" routine. I know of a number of doctors who are furious. And let's not forget the Jake DeSantises of the world. Basically anyone who earns a living in the private sector is now fair game, along with now the police.

fdcol63

" ... The more I think about this, the more I'm inclined toward the view that there was something going on that Gates wanted to hide. ..."

Eh ... a conspiracy theory 2-fer:

Gates was inside his house hiding the proof that Obama was born in Kenya and traveled to Pakistan in 1981 on an Indonesian passport on a trip that was paid for by Osama bin Laden and the USSR.

LOL

centralcal

Clarice, if you are still about here, I have question.

What is the difference between "overturn" and "vacate" in regard to SC opinions on lower court rulings?

Bif Lomax

Any good that can come out of America by electing a black president is going to come undone by crap like this. thank yo Mr. Gates

Pops

I find this argument that your allowed to scream at and berate cops while they are in the middle of responding to a

potential life-threatening situation to be ridiculous.

Where did people ever get this idea?

Am I aloud to follow the Mail Carrier around and scream and holler at them while their performing their work?

How about an EMT responding at the scene of an accident? Can I scream in their ear while their trying to

communicate with a doctor at the hospital on triage?

Or the train/bus driver? Can I blind him with a laser pen while I talk about his Momma. How would blinding him be any different then

Cutting off the Officers ability to hear?? He could have gotten an update from dispatch that the two men were now holding a kid hostage two streets over.

Officer Crowley had no idea what situation he was walking into. For all he knew the people seen breaking into Gates house were two

White supremacists there to kill him and they ran and hid before he arrived. It would be nice to be able to hear a rustling in the bushes,

or the backdoor being slammed open, or two killers communicating, or their sawed off shotguns’ being cocked.

Let me come to your job and scream in your ear and let’s see how effective you are at carry out the tasks you need to get done.

Better yet, let me do it in the doctors ear while he’s doing your granddads bypass surgery. Geeezzz

Pops

""As a broader sentiment, however, it shows a dangerous level of deference to the government agents in whom we entrust a massive amount of power. ""

Just how dangerous a deference is it to not scream and carry on when someone is attempting to apprehend criminals.

I can't think of another profession that deals with public safety when any of these same people would claim you can shout and holler and disrupt people performing their duties.

Would this guy get in the face and holler at firemen trying to rescue someone? Doesn't he not comprehend that they need to hear? They need to communicate, to coordinate, etc.

What a dipsh-t.

clarice

CC:"What is the difference between "overturn" and "vacate" in regard to SC opinions on lower court rulings?"

Gosh, what a good question. I'm not sure I know the answer. Usually, I think the court overturns an opinion when it is remanding it for further hearings below--as for example when it decides that the lower court utilized the wrong standard for its decision. And my impression is that they use the term vacate when they are simply deciding a decision is wrong and no further action below is required or warranted.
But that's just my impression. I really haven't thought about this.

Josh E.

That's it? Gates had committed no crime, therefore he was free to heap as much abuse as he wanted on the police? Couldn't Gates have made his points forcefully but politely, or would that have been "capitulation"?

You may be surprised to learn that it is actually not a crime to insult a police officer, even in the America ruled by the Stealth Muslim Obamafascist.

centralcal

Clarice: Thank you.

In my layman mentality that is basically how I explained it when the question came up during vacation with family. The subject was how many of Sotomayor's decisions had been overturned and vacated. Then, came the question of what those terms meant.

Sturgis Drain

Crowley did not vote for Obama- his father did. Murphy is not on Crowley's side. She says her client never even talked to Crowley at the scene- at all.

verner

It makes me laugh like a goat to see Obamaphiles--those who salivate over the idea of taking away our wealth and freedom of choice--turning into absolute libertarians over this issue.

Funny how the goal posts have changed. I thought this was suppose to be about Racism and Racial Profiling.

The Axelturfers have gotten their marching orders.

Watch your back Crowley. This must be hurting him real bad in the internals.

bad

The person reporting the break-in referred to the possible criminals as "two larger men."

My understanding is that Skippy is not a "larger" man. The picture of him on the porch with his mouth wide open with the officers makes him look like a smaller man; size wise and otherwise.

bad

The woman making the 911 call described the men trying to enter the house as "two larger men."

Skippy is not a larger man: size wise (or otherwise.)

bad

Sorry for the double post. I thought the first one was lost.

Caro

I think he said he was 5'7" and 150 lbs. But I have not seen his age yet. Anyone know that?

bad

I read 58 from several places but can't remember where, Caro.

verner

Bad, Gates is 57 years old, 5'7" and 150 lbs per his own statements.

Extraneus

Sadly, it appears that Dodd and Conrad aren't quite the paragons of propriety we thought they were. I would pain me to find out that Gates and his Inkwell Foundation weren't on the up and up, or that tax-exempt, non-profit charity funds were being extorted or doled out illegally, but perhaps it would make sense to find out, just to be safe.

I hope some people are looking more carefully into the finances of this great man, if only to clear his fine name.

Extraneus

This is heartbreaking news.

Despite their denials, influential Democratic Sens. Kent Conrad and Chris Dodd were told from the start they were getting VIP mortgage discounts from one of the nation's largest lenders, the official who handled their loans has told Congress in secret testimony.
Almost enough to shake one's faith.

Extraneus

Aw, is there a copy of this historic document somewhere?

[Gates] wrote in his Yale application:

"As always, whitey now sits in judgment of me, preparing to cast my fate. It is your decision either to let me blow with the wind as a nonentity or to encourage the development of self. Allow me to prove myself."

verner

You know, Obama has enough time to discuss faux racial profiling in his made up press conference with pre-arranged questions from friendly reporters, but HE DOESN'T HAVE A SINGLE SECOND TO MENTION THE SENSELESS MURDER OF VERNON FORREST--A great guy and former boxing champion who was gunned down in the streets of Atlanta by a black perp (and I had to find that out from a blog, because although the crime was witnessed by Forrest's 11 yeart old god son who saw the murder--not a single news outlet bothered to mention the race and description of the suspects--even though, as far as I know, the police are still looking for them.)

LUN.

There is chaos in inner city neighborhoods, with blacks murdering blacks at sickening rates, and all these a-holes can talk about is how that prissy bastard Henry Louis Gates had his feelings hurt.

Pathetic.

Now call me a racist for saying the obvious--and kiss my beige butt.

Devoirs

GATES WAS RACIALLY DISCRIMINATED AGAINST.

COWLEY SHOULD BE DISCIPLINED.

COWLEY IS THE PROBLEM.
_____________________
SCANDALS! SCANDALS! SCANDALS!

DANGER! DANGER! DANGER!

GEORGE W. BUSH IS AN EXTREMELY DANGEROUS CRIMINAL STALKER AND SERIAL KILLER!

“In her suit, Margie Schoedinger states that George W. Bush committed sexual crimes against her, organized harassment and moral pressure on her, her family members and close relatives and friends. As Schoedinger said, she was strongly recommended to keep her mouth shut. . . . Furthermore, she alleges that George Bush ordered to show pressure on her to the point, when she commits suicide” (go to Google, type “blog of drizzten Margie Schoedinger,” and hit “Enter”).

“George [Bush is personally complicit] in the death (murder to be precise) of my friend Margie Schoedinger in September of 2003. Determining the exact whereabouts and contacts of . . . George Bush on September 21 thru 22, 2003, should be entirely lacking in difficulty” (Leola McConnell—Nevada Progressive Democratic Candidate for U.S. Senate in 2010).

McConnell is correct: Bush applying pressure (continuously criminally stalking Margie Schoedinger) purposefully to force Schoedinger to commit suicide does in fact constitute murder where it culminated in her death.

Bush’s method of murdering Schoedinger cannot exist in a vacuum: he must have murdered other people in the same way.

During Bush’s presidency, of course Bush would have desired to kill people whom he hated or get them out of his way. Insofar as Bush was clearly capable of murdering Schoedinger—even in “broad daylight”—and is clearly capable of getting away with it, in consideration of common sense and the laws of human nature, Bush of course murdered numerous people in the disgusting way he murdered Schoedinger. One can examine public information; in various situations where people who sought to oppose or disadvantage Bush ever so frighteningly ended up “committing suicide”—specifically—Bush murdered them just like he murdered Schoedinger. For example, Bush murdered James Howard Hatfield by continuously criminally stalking Hatfield to the point that Hatfield could not get away from it—purposefully to force Hatfield to commit suicide—and Hatfield committed suicide in desperation to escape. However, the vast majority of such scandalous cases will never come out (the grisly details are typically hard to substantiate). A prosecutor really can lawfully charge a former president with murdering one or more people in the disgusting way Bush murdered Schoedinger. The American people unfortunately live in a world where evil presidents can murder any number of people—figuratively—with a wave of a magic wand and get away with it.

(There are thousands of copies of the information above on the Internet. Please feel free to go to any major search engine, type “GEORGE W. BUSH IS AN EXTREMELY DANGEROUS CRIMINAL STALKER AND SERIAL KILLER” or “George W. Bush continuously criminally stalked Margie Schoedinger to the point that she could not get away from it, and she committed suicide in desperation to escape: he murdered her” or “George W. Bush applying pressure (continuously criminally stalking Margie Schoedinger) purposefully to force Schoedinger to commit suicide does in fact constitute murder where it culminated in her death” or “George W. Bush murdered James Howard Hatfield by continuously criminally stalking Hatfield to the point that Hatfield could not get away from it—purposefully to force Hatfield to commit suicide—and Hatfield committed suicide in desperation to escape,” hit “Enter,” and readily find hundreds of copies.)

(Please feel free to go to Google, type “GEORGE W. BUSH IS THE WORST PRESIDENT IN U.S. HISTORY blog of Andrew Wang,” and hit “Enter.”)
_____________________
Andrew Wang
(a.k.a. “THE DISSEMINATING MACHINE”)
B.S., Summa Cum Laude, 1996
Messiah College, Grantham, PA
Lower Merion High School, Ardmore, PA, 1993

verner

OH WOW! We've arrived. The Axelturfers are spamming the threads.

Hmmm. I predict a -12 tomorrow.

clarice

Me, too, verner, the presser today by the Ca,bridge cope helped.

DebinNC

lol: About that White House beer

bad

There's no way 5'7" and 150 lbs qualifies as a "larger man."

Now I really want to see the driver who supposedly helped Gates break in. Is he the same size which would just make the witness mistaken in her size assessment, or are they two very different sized guys which would make her descrition hinky.

DebinNC

I think the police report describes a witness seeing two men with backpacks. If Gates had an overnight bag slung over his shoulder, he might appear from the street larger than he is.

The 911 fellow asked the caller if she'd be there when police arrived, so Crowley may have gotten addional info before approaching the door. Also, I think the caller said she hadn't noticed the break-in until an older woman there approached her. They may have each had separate impressions of the 2 men, and Crowley heard from both women at the scene and combined their accounts in his report.

Brett

What is your point bad? Descriptions are notoriously unreliable. Besides if the woman is 4-11 and 90 lbs then almost any man looks "big" to here.

If someone says another person is breaking and entering a home then the cop has to act with extreme caution. He can't just walk up fat, dumb and happy and think. Oh, this man is not big. Boom -- Your dead. Not going home to the family tonight Mr. Cop.

It turned out to be correct that the men were breaking into the home. It just turned out to be Gate's own home. No problem sure. But only no problem AFTER the cop verifies the "intruder" is in fact the homeowner no matter what the guy in the house says. If someone is in fact the homeowner they should quickly prove it and thank the cops for protecting the premises.

verner

Agreed Brett. And a Harvard ID does not have a "home address" as far as I know.

The 911 caller was absolutely correct on the most important details. Two men used a crowbar to break into the house. Even she said that she didn't get a good look at them.

And there's nothing much in the details of the report that Gates himself would not say was true. He and the driver (two males) broke into the house, and they had luggage with them. He has admitted to all of that.

People who are nit picking at this stuff are just trying to delfect from the big picture.

bad

O/T

AP reports the Ibama administration is continuing and expanding the SWIFT program developed by Bush Cheney to battle terrorism financing.

Remember how awful the NYT found the program to be?

LUN

bad

Guess who's filing an amended tax return for 2007?

HINT: It's being reported at Riehl World View.

LUN

Karly Kva

Gates overreacted, I believe, but not in a vacuum. You have to consider America's history with Blacks and law enforcement. Not too terribly long ago being Black was enough to be considered guilty of a crime. If Crowley understood this, Gates' i.d. and proof of ownership of the home would have sufficed. There is a deplorable lack of communication on both sides and perhaps this incident is what we need to open up an honest dialogue.

Original MikeS

Bad,
I notice that Gates' fiance got $6,000. Didn't Governor Spitzer get into trouble when he gave his fiance $4,000?

bad

FRom the LUN:

A charity headed by star Harvard University professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. is filing an amended 2007 report to the Internal Revenue Service because $11,000 it paid to foundation officers as compensation was mischaracterized as being for research grants.

What a coincidence....

DebinNC

Gates doesn't own the home.

From bad's links: A charity headed by star Harvard University professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. is filing an amended 2007 report to the Internal Revenue Service because $11,000 it paid to foundation officers as compensation was mischaracterized as being for research grants.

bad

OMS, Oh please, the good professor recused himself.

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

bad

Gates' i.d. and proof of ownership of the home would have sufficed.

Gates doesn't own the house. Harvard does.

Sue

open up an honest dialogue.

That makes me smile. What exactly is an honest dialogue?

Karly Kva

Also, in a press conference which was to address health care, why was this question even asked about Gates' situation? Perhaps there is some sort of chicanery going on here. Suppose Obama decided not to respond. Would he have been seen as indifferent to the plight of the "common man" showing himself the elitist that he's been accused of being? I think there is more going on here. THe issue should not have been raised at this particular press conference. I just wonder what really going on.

Original MikeS

Gates' i.d. and proof of ownership of the home would have sufficed.

It did Karly! My understanding is that Gates was incensed over being asked for his ID. Am I wrong about that? Did Crowley taser him or something?

DebinNC

THe issue should not have been raised at this particular press conference.

Apparently, the WH was hoping for, if not expecting, it. Robert Gibbs said Obama was prepped for the question, even practicing his answer in the press room with the answer showing on the large screen at the back.

bad

ProPublica:

By reclassifying the payments to Kendall and Wolf, administrative expenses will constitute almost 40 percent of Inkwell's 2007 spending instead of less than one percent.

This is sooooo Chicago Annenberg Challenge. Multiple board members received "grants" from Gate's Inkwell charity. Heavy expenses and little charity.

LUN

clarice

Karly--what refreshing naivete!

Gibbs has admitted that Obama wanted that question asked and Lynn Sweet who asked it admits the WH checked to see she'd be at the presser and indicated she might be caled on by Obama. She denies that Obama knew what she'd be asking--I call B.S. Probably Ogletree or Axelrod or Rahm let it be knwonw they wanted a question about Gates--The presser stunk and Obama called on Sweet because he is so DUMB he thought his answer would distract from the boring wonkiness of the healthcare issue (on which he's losing anyway) and make everyone love him again.

He and Sweet got what they deserved. She no longer has any reputation and everyone knows that Obama is a stupid fraud.

clarice

Yes, bad and that might leave Gates with another problem-I think federal and state law mandate that he distribute out more than he did to charity.

verner

Also, in a press conference which was to address health care, why was this question even asked about Gates' situation?

Um, maybe because Obama wanted Lynn Sweet to ask the question--he prepped for it, Gibbs admitted already.

He just miscalculated the public's reaction to his calibrated answer.

Sue

Clarice,

She is no longer allowing questions through at her blog.

clarice

She really has no reputation left. Another one--under the bus.

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Wilson/Plame