Heck No, He Won't Go

Major Stefan F. Cook is seeking relief in the civilian courts from orders to go to Afghanistan, claiming that the orders are unlawful because our Commander-in-Chief is not a natural born citizen.

The deep thinkers at Wonkette infer that he is a coward, but obviously haven't paged through the court filing, which includes (point 18, page 13) the news that the plaintiff "is no pacifist or anti-war protestor.  Plaintiff actually does want to go to Aghanistan and he verifies this fact... under penalty of perjury."

The complaint is long on rhetoric and short on actual evidence.  It also includes this headscratcher (pt. 24, pg 15).  Their point is that responding to this complaint would scarcely burden Obama at all - all he needs to do is produce a long form birth certificate which "will confirm whether Barack Hussen Obama was in fact born to parents who were both citizens of the United States in Honolulu, Hawaii, on or about 1961".

That is their emphasis on the parent being US citizens, and I have no idea why - Obama's father was not a citizen, nor does he need to be.  If Obama was born in the United States, he is a citizen.

Other bits of the complaint may be accurate, and certainly give one pause.  For example, they claim (pt. 9) that a short form birth certificate of the type we have been shown for Obama could have been obtained under Hawaiian statute 338, which relies simply on the statement of a relative without corroborating evidence from a local hospital.  I have no idea whether that is true.

Well.  I ducked the Bush-National Guard until it was forced upon a reluctant nation by Dan Rather and have mostly ducked this one.  However, this seems even weirder - what in the world could the obstacle be to releasing a long form birth certificate (Fact Check was delighted with the short form)?

MyDD assures us there are mountains of evidence in defense of Obama, but who is asking for mountains, and what makes this so complicated?  Well, why ask why?  Obviously, it is not complicated if the long form contains no surprises; it is a Constitutional disaster and international debacle if it does.

JUST SAYING, AGAIN:  I don't think that Obama's mother and grandparents would have been fiddling with Obama's birth records in 1961 in order to preserve his eligibility for the White House; they would have been doing that to buttress their claim to custody in the event of a nasty separation from the African father.  Put it this way - what would Ms. Dunham's chances have looked like if she were fighting a Kenyan family in a Kenyan court for custody of a black Kenyan child?  I'm not saying there was any fiddling; I am just saying the motive for such fiddling would have been screamingly obvious back in 1961.

[end of thread]

Comments

[Nick]

I'm torn. On the one hand, good for him for standing up against Obama. On the other, it is his duty to serve, and to serve his country.

[bad]

If I were the President, I'd just show the long form and get this carp in the rear view mirror.

[MayBee]

I'm not really into the birth certificate thing except for two points:

1-It was handled really really oddly. They set up a whole website to introduce the birth certificate and then gave it to Kos instead. It was all very weird.

2-It seems that, if the constitution has certain (few) requirements to be eligible for the Presidency, it shouldn't be ridiculous to have to procure the documents proving those qualifications.

We are so nosy about our presidential candidates in some ways, but we require less documentation from them than most employers.

[clarice]

Isn't it possible they did that to make sure he'd be able to get a US passport and all the protection that entitles him to. I have read elsewhere that Hawaii gave one of these short form certificates to his half sister who was born in Indonesia. (I can't swear the information is true though it appears to be.)

[Tregonsee]

I had been wondering how the Left would spin this. In the past, they have been all for anybody who refused to go, and gave them great support. Now, doing so would conflict with the worship of The Won. I get that many still have smoke coming out of their ears.

[clarice]

President Biden? Vice President Pelosi?

Good grief..Pinch me.

[Barbara]

I applaud Major Cook. This can't have been an easy decision for him to make. No one at the national level is willing to address the issue of whether Obama has status as a "natural born" citizen. Those who have tried to bring the subject forward have been categorized as the lunatic fringe by our somnolent media. Meanwhile, Obama's minions are busy scrubbing the record of any information on his birth certificate put forward by his campaign in the past. One has to wonder why.

Perhaps Major Cook's action will bring the spotlight on the matter. Let's hope that his character isn't destroyed by the vindictive Obama machine in the process.

[Gabriel Sutherland]

I'm surprised it has taken this long for a fire started by Team Obama to be put out.

On just about every other question during the campaign they were swift with their response.

On this they dragged and dragged and dragged until someone then sent a copy of the live birth to Daily Kos.

This was putting out a fire with a train of ADM produced corn oil.

[clarice]

To be honest, I think the website which was scrubbed was not closely monitored by the Obama camp and the birth certificate was not the only thing they flubbed.
To be sure, Obama should have simply said so and I do not know why he did not disavow it.
JMH did a good job showing that what they put on their site as the certificate was clearly not one.

[Thomas Collins]

The US Congress accepted the certification of the results of the Electoral College, which met in accordance with the US Constitution. The results were that Barack Hussein Obama received a majority of the electoral votes. That's it. He's the legitimate US Prez, like it or not (and as I have many times stated on this blog, I don't particularly like it). This is an issue that in my view is not properly justiciable by the courts. If we feel that Congress didn't do its duty in vetting Obama's qualifications (and thus should have refused to accept the Electoral College results), our recourse is to use the political process to hold Congress accountable.

[MayBee]

To be honest, I think the website which was scrubbed was not closely monitored by the Obama camp and the birth certificate was not the only thing they flubbed

Is that the "Stop the Lies" website?
That was an odd one, and few (except my boyfriend) in the MSM paid attention to it. They used to quote what other sources said about Obama to refute "lies". Then they'd have to change justifications as new facts came out.

But that website was set up with great fanfare, and I know Karen Tumulty reported the birth certificate was to be introduced there. She was shown the site the night before it went live. Then in the morning....no birth certificate. They gave it to Kos instead.

I think there is something personally embarrassing on the birth certificate, nothing more. Obama's biography so managed and manipulated.

[jimmyk]

This is an issue that in my view is not properly justiciable by the courts. If we feel that Congress didn't do its duty in vetting Obama's qualifications (and thus should have refused to accept the Electoral College results), our recourse is to use the political process to hold Congress accountable.

I doubt there's any settled law on this, since the Constitution is silent and it's never come up. Nonetheless, even if you are correct, the political process would be best served by having the facts emerge. I agree with Maybee that it is probably just something personally embarrassing, but that could be sidestepped by some kind of affidavit.

[Appalled]

This has always seemed to me to be the mirror image of Andrew Sullivan's Trig Palin quest -- a mad crusade to try to prove the opposite of what common sense tells us for base political motives.

[MayBee]

What would we do if someone suspected a candidate wasn't really 35 years old?
What if the candidate had a similar history (or lack thereof) to Obama, but was Chinese and spoke fluent Mandarin?

Would people push for a birth certificate?

I ask because it just seems odd that a candidate doesn't have to provide any proof he meets the qualifications the constitution clearly lays out.

[MayBee]

This has always seemed to me to be the mirror image of Andrew Sullivan's Trig Palin quest -- a mad crusade to try to prove the opposite of what common sense tells us for base political motives.

Really? Accusing the Vice Presidential Candidate of pretending to be pregnant and give birth to her Down Syndrome baby is the *mirror image* of asking for a birth certificate from a grown man?

[Thomas Collins]

Jimmyk, my argument is that the structure of the US Constitution, including without limitation the provisons regarding the Electoral College, and the practical requirement that a sovereign leave no doubt as to the legitimacy of action by the head of the Executive Branch, argue strongly in favor of my approach. Keep in mind that Congress could even now impeach and convict Obama if it determined that he failed any qualification requirement.

I agree that it would be helpful to have the facts come out. But I don't think there is any question that Obama has full constitutional authority as Commander-in-Chief.

Let those of us who rightly condemn the Sotomayors and Brennans of the world for judicial imperialism avoid the mechanical mindset of assuming that the federal courts should be the arbiter of every issue arising under the US constitution.

[Gabriel Sutherland]

Before this Obama case, I had thought all candidates had to present their documents to show they met the minimal qualifications for office.

I rested on the laurels that good lawyers had already thought about certifying this information as soon as possible.

Whoops.

[Sue]

Congress found time to debate whether McCain was eligible. Weird they didn't ask for a long form BC from Obama too.

[clarice]

And Romney's case was debated, too, IIRC.

[PeterUK]

No Appalled,there is definitely something wrong about Barrack Hussein Obama, it may not be epoch shattering,but it doesn't sweeten the bad odour emanating from the man.
It is incredibly difficult to erase one's past,impossible for a public figure.Secondly why would it be done.
You gave him the keys to the kingdom,not much to ask that he introduces himself.
But,if you are happy with President Nemo,the man with his finger on the nuclear button......

[Danube of Thought]

Whether or not Obama was eligible for the presidency is entirely irrelevant to this officer's unequivocal duty to go where he is ordered to go. (Would he refuse orders to report to, say, Fort Riley, Kansas on the same grounds?)

I hope they throw the book at this clown, and order up some psychiatric testing while they're at it.

Aloha.

[Thomas Collins]

See LUN for an interesting discussion about the meaning of "natural born Citizen." Note that the discussion mentions Chester Alan Arthur, about whom there were questions regarding whether he was a natural born Citizen of the US.

[MayBee]

I agree, DoT.

[PeterUK]

"I agree that it would be helpful to have the facts come out. But I don't think there is any question that Obama has full constitutional authority as Commander-in-Chief."

This isn't the point. The point is why? Why has Barrack Hussein Obama got no record except his books? Why is he reluctant to lay it all out. Is that too much to ask.

[Fresh Air]

PUK--

Before, Zero was a crypto-BLT-Commie-Marxist. Now, he is an un-crypto-BLT-Stalinist-Ceausescu-Commie-Marxist.

Q.E.D.

[Fresh Air]

And those are his strong points.

[PeterUK]

Ceausescu? - No wonder the TOTU topped itself.

[royf]

First off I agree that Congress has accepted the results of Obama's election.But there is absolutely no arguing with the fact that the Obama machine has scrubbed the record of his past. I don't see how that is even debatable, So I guess that means no one should question why?

This is a big problem which could lead to a Constitutional crisis and perhaps a real civil war. We have Congressmen who pass enormous laws without having ever read them and we have a President who hasn't even shown enough documentation to apply for a security clearance.

What I don't get is how more people don't understand that this is a very large problem to many peole and it isn't going away.

[Thomas Collins]

I think there is more than one point, PUK. The point on which you are focusing is his political legitimacy. However, the lawsuit that is the subject of TM's post questions Obama's legitimacy to act as Prez. Both subjects are worthy of discussion.

As to Obama's lack of record, I can only speculate that Obama has scrubbed the record because disclosure of all the facts would have resulted in Obama not even receiving the Democratic nomination, much less being elected POTUS.

My sense is that too much focus on the naturn born Citizen issue will backfire on Obama's opponents and redound to Obama's benefit. I think the best way to undercut Obama is to focus on his reckless spending, lunatic cap and trade policies, desire to raise taxes in a recession, and desire to impose socialized medicine on the US.

[joycekane is back and on topic]

I hope this little dispute over the offspring of a white American woman and (we think) a Kenyan man won't scare you off from the joys of interracial dating.

[Appalled]

Maybee:

I am thinking more the quest to demand all sorts of stuff to disprove a charge which is from bizarro world, and taking the refusal to proffer that information as proof of the truth of the charge.

[MayBee]

I am thinking more the quest to demand all sorts of stuff to disprove a charge which is from bizarro world, and taking the refusal to proffer that information as proof of the truth of the charge.

But giving birth to the children you call your own is not a constitutional requirement for holding the office of President.

Believing a candidate should at least be able to show he meets the minimum constitutional requirements for the office hardly seems like a demand for "all sorts of stuff".

For some reason, it has become common for candidates to release their tax filings, their medical records (or a 1 page letter from a doctor), etc. A birth certificate hardly seems less relevant.

[royf]

Well Appalled I have never defended or joined in on the "birther" websites or discussions. I've followed it only on a very shallow level, but I will say this in respect to your claim that asking for proof of birth is from bizarro world.

The writers of the Constitution didn't consider it bizarre, They wrote it into the Document for a purpose.

[Cecil Turner]

Whether or not Obama was eligible for the presidency is entirely irrelevant to this officer's unequivocal duty to go where he is ordered to go.

Not sure I agree with this line of reasoning.

The way I see it:
• The basic authority to order the military resides in the people;
• The Constitution delegates this authority [in most cases] to the President;
• The President delegates his authority through the Chain of Command (as designated by law);and finally,
• Commanders give [lawful] orders to subordinates.

If that chain is broken in any link, then the legitimacy of the entire operation is compromised. There's little doubt that if someone outside the chain of command were to give an operational order, it would not be binding. And if the President does not fulfill the basic Constitutional requirements for holding office . . .

That said, I can't imagine what could possibly be on the birth certificate that would be germane to the case. If he was in fact born in Hawaii (as seems nearly certain), then AFAICT he's a natural-born citizen. The reluctance to produce the document seems very odd, but irrelevant to that case. If I were forced to speculate, I'd guess there's something else embarassing there (e.g., father "unknown").

I am thinking more the quest to demand all sorts of stuff to disprove a charge which is from bizarro world

AFAICT, there are exactly three prerequisites for the presidency (i.e., natural born, 35 years old, and 14 years resident). Asking for proof of the first criterion seems pretty basic to me. The failure to provide is what's borderline bizarro. Accusing a candidate of faking a pregnancy is crass, weird, and irrelevant.

[Dave (in MA)]

Before, Zero was a crypto-BLT-Commie-Marxist. Now, he is an un-crypto-BLT-Stalinist-Ceausescu-Commie-Marxist.

Mmmmmm... BLTs.

[Ignatz]

--This is an issue that in my view is not properly justiciable by the courts.--

I don't much care about this BC issue, but seems to me for the sake of argument that if Barry committed a fraud then the courts have some say, as does congress. He can be impeached and tried by congress as to removal from office. He can be tried and found guilty or not of a civil or criminal offense by the courts, no?

--Whether or not Obama was eligible for the presidency is entirely irrelevant to this officer's unequivocal duty to go where he is ordered to go.--

If Barry is not eligible for the presidency it seems it might be somewhat relevant to whether this guy received a lawful order.
**********************
Either there is something here and Barry refuses to clear it up or, more likely, there is nothing here and he is slyly not clarifying to keep this silliness going.

Neither possibility speaks very well of Barry and his claims of transparency and refusal to play politics as usual.

[PeterUK]

TC,
No,I'm not interested in The political legitimacy of Obama. I want to understand the psychology of someone who allows no information about his past to vary from the script of his books.
There are no anecdotes,no close friends from school college or work or interests that normal people have. There isn't even a family which knows him well.Now that takes some doing.

[MayBee]

There are no anecdotes,no close friends from school college or work or interests that normal people have. There isn't even a family which knows him well.Now that takes some doing.

Obama's former Occidental College roommate has been appointed Ambassador to Belize.

Hyderabad, June 13 (IANS) Indian American businessman Vinai Thummalapally’s parents and other family members in the Andhra Pradesh capital are elated over his appointment as US President Barack Obama’s envoy to the central American nation of Belize.
T. Dharma Reddy and T. Padmaja are thrilled that their son, who has known Obama since college and raised $100,000 for his election campaign, was rewarded with a diplomatic assignment.

It's just weird how none of these people are ever interviewed by anybody.

[PeterUK]

Maybee,
Stealth nepotism.

[PeterUK]

"It's just weird how none of these people are ever interviewed by anybody."

If you don't know the past,how can you understand events?

[Thomas Collins]

Oh, OK, PUK, I'm sorry I assumed it was political legitimacy without asking you.

Your point intrigues me, PUK, because I hadn't given any thought to the possibility that scrubbing the past may go beyond a hard, cold political calculation by Obama and be substantially motivated by something in his psyche. You've given me something to ponder.

[bad]

Michelle finds herself to be a perfect role model and trumpets her virtues and history ad nauseum but her husband has so much shame he allows no discussion of his past. Yet he finds himself worthy to be president of the United States of America.

Odd

[PeterUK]

TC,
No problem.Obama regards unwanted pregnancy as "punishment".He has erased Barry Dunham/Soetoro and created Barrack Hussein Obama.It is rather unnerving to have someone with self loathing with his finger on the button.

[DebinNC]

My sense is that too much focus on the naturn born Citizen issue will backfire on Obama's opponents and redound to Obama's benefit. I think the best way to undercut Obama is to focus on his reckless spending, lunatic cap and trade policies, desire to raise taxes in a recession, and desire to impose socialized medicine on the US.

Couldn't agree more, TC.

[Parking Lot]

A lot of confusion could be cleared up if an official from the Hawaii Dept of Health would give a public press conference. A large part the ambiguity is the information on Hawaii's Dept of Health Web site.

Questions: did Hawaii retain the original birth certificates when they went digital? Can one get a copy of his long form? Under what circumstances can people born in foreign countries (per statute HRS 338-17) be registered as born in Hawaii and how would that be recorded?

[Pagar]

We have just watched Congress pass bills that haven't been read by anyone and we're being asked to believe that the Electoral College somehow saw documents that no one else in order to insure that the person they certified as having been elected President was indeed qualified. That believe is just not grounded in basic fact.

http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/blog1/

Has the latest court cases against Obama as a qualified US president.

LUN has additional info.

Obama eligibility case will be heard on merits !!

It is absolutely insane that a US soldier has to risk his entire military career over something that hundreds of US public officials are legally charged with doing (verifying a candidate's eligibility) and that it is obvious they failed to do. It is also insane that a President would spend millions to keep his birth certificate hidden.

[Barbara]

Apart from the discovery of what may be motivating Obama (a subject deserving of its own thread), the birth certificate is the only piece of information which could certify whether Obama meets the requirements for office specifically set forth in the Consitution for the Office of President of the United States. As to whether the document might contain something embarrassing to Obama (e.g., he is illegitimate, has a communicable disease, or six toes), I don't believe that such information would have affected his candidacy nor would it affect him as President were it to come to light today.

Without the long form of the document, we just don't know that much about his parentage or his actual place of birth. But I do find it interesting that any Dunham family member who may have had knowledge of Obama's birth never spoke out on the matter, never was interviewed and has conveniently died and been cremated.

[willem]

The one issue that belongs before the court keeps getting buried in incomprehensible histrionic crap.

Obama was born a British Citizen. That he is also presumed born an American citizen does nothing to alter the fact of his British Citizenship at birth. THAT is the Article II issue. In my reading of Vattel, et al, there is little doubt in my mind that Obama is not only: 1) not a Natural Born Citizen as the term was used; but, 2) the very type of British born Article II most intended to ban from holding the office of POTUS.

Amidst mountains of non-sensical bullshit dredged up about Obama's birth, The O continues to benefit from the obfuscation of this very simple, self-admitted and undisputed fact.

Obama was born a British Citizen. Article II imposes an "at birth" requirement. That he rescinded his British citizenship does not change the fact of his citizenship at birth. How does one square that with the constitutional requirement under Article II that a POTUS be a natural born citizen?

[bad]

My children had to present birth certificates to participate in sport leagues and musical performance competitions.

What's up with that?

[Parking Lot]

((Can one get a copy of his long form? ))

clarification

I know no one except 0 can get a copy of his long form. The question is could I, if born in the 60's in Hawaii, get a copy of my own long form birth certificate, if they are still retained in an archive of some sort? or does Hawaii only issue the Certificate of Live Birth and disallow even copies of anything else?

The info at Hawaii's DOH is very fuzzy . The government at work.

[PeterUK]

" But I do find it interesting that any Dunham family member who may have had knowledge of Obama's birth never spoke out on the matter, never was interviewed and has conveniently died and been cremated."

Hopefully, in that order.

In all event, Barry is probably a cuckoo in the Dunham nest albeit born in Hawaii.No doubt his firmly middle class socialist family did the decent thing and covered it up.Barrack Hussein Obama just suited his political ambitions better

[Danube of Thought]

I agree 100% with TC's analysis of the legal issue concerning judicial review of this matter.

The Major's orders weren't issued by the president. Even if they were, those orders would be lawful without the slightest shadow of a doubt. His argument is absurd on its face.

[willem]

Obama's vault BC is somewhat of a red herring. I think that's why they keep it under wraps: to fan the flaming moonbats and preserve the incomprehensibility of the issue.

Obama readily admits he was born a British Citizen. He never lied about it or hid that fact from the public.

Now, Obama is POTUS. Let there be no dispute about that.

His presentments that he is constitutionally eligible to run and hold the office, however, are another matter.

There are good arguments for letting sleeping dogs lie. There are also good arguments for having SCOTUS settle the points of law contributing to this basic constitutional question, which I think, may be one of the few cases of first impression left to consider.

[Ranger]

Actually, I don't think the responsibility to validate qualifications falls to the Federal Government at this point. Given that the process is actually 50 seperate state elections, the responsibility probably falls on who ever is chartered in each state (usually the Secretary of State, but some states may do it differently) to verify that the candidates on the ballot meet the eligability requirements. To that end, it is kind of surprising that not a single state seems to take any action to actually verify a candidate for president's eligability to serve.

[PeterUK]

"Obama readily admits he was born a British Citizen. He never lied about it or hid that fact from the public. "

Well he isn't coming here and getting a council house when you kick him out.

[Barbara]

"The question is could I, if born in the 60's in Hawaii, get a copy of my own long form birth certificate, if they are still retained in an archive of some sort?"

I can't comment on Hawaii, but here in California my sister had to produce a copy of her daughter's long form COLB in order to travel abroad. The passport office would not accept the short form. She had to request the document from the Bureau of Records.

[Strawman Cometh]

Clarice,
IIRC it was Mitt's father George, born in Mexico of American parents, that had eligibility issues when he was running in the GOP primary in '68.

[Sue]

Where the hell is Hit?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,532490,00.html?test=latestnews>Man Reportedly Kidnapped, Force-Fed Beer in Utah

[Geek, Esq.]

The birth certificate issued by the state of Hawaii and posted on Obama's website way back when is per se proof of the time and place of his birth in every court in every jurisdiction in the United States. It is enough to satisfy the requirements to get a passport or a top- level security clearance. Absent mpelling evidence to the contrary, it ends the debate over both his citizenship and eligibility.

Thus the alternatives are to believe the state of Hawaii and all credible evidence or to believe some the same people who refer to Malia Obama as 'ghetto trash.'

[Old Lurker]

"Well he isn't coming here and getting a council house when you kick him out."

PUK from what the WSJ writes about today, he could just move into one of those abandoned Mayfair mansions.

[PeterUK]

The "kidnapped and force fed" don't ring true.

[Amused Bystander]

Of course it matters, it is the law. This is just how we have gotten to the point of the current lawlessness, disregard for the constitution and tyranny: We have failed to demand ahearence to it. Once we allow this sort of thing to go on ther eis no end to it. And do not think it hyperbole that we face tyranny for we most surely do face it.

Look at GM: A clear abuse of the separation of powers.

If we cannot stand up for a clearly articulated constitutional requirement for the POTUS, why bother to have a constitutional government whatsoever?

It does not matter if "it backfires" on anyone. The point is to uphold the law, not to seek political advantage. If it "backfires" on someone we need to comprehend why we are have become so decadent that such a thing would happen.

How can holding for the truth and the rule of law "backfire" on someone? If it were to "backfire on someone" it will show that we no longer have the constitutional republic that we once had, and getting that out into the open is well worth the price.

TC, your argument lacks moral grounding, whatever political grounding it may have.

I would even argue that in the political case that it is weak. The democrats kick a shout about every tiny detail. They fight every fight and do not care if it "backfires" or not.

It seems to work for them.

The Republic is beging ripped asunder as we sit here. It is time to realize this. It is no joke. We may never hae a real election again at the rate that we are going.

It is time to fight, fight and fight, and by any and all means.

The stakes could not be higher.

[Amused Bystander]

ahearence to it - adherence to it.

[PeterUK]

Looks like we have a troll.It must all be true.

[Pat Curley]

Why won't he release the long form? Maybe because he's enjoying seeing everybody obsessing over his BC and not his projected deficits?

[Old Lurker]

OT Greenshoot Alert.

Good piece by Mort Zukerman in WSJ citing ten reasons to worry about the employment data. Validates what all the numbers folks here have been saying for two months. LUN

Other financial news today in the "They Deserve It" category is the attempt by McGraw Hill to sell Business Week ... for $1 just to get rid of it. I subscribed to it for 35 years but finally kicked it to the curb when they unabashedly pushed support for Clinton economics at every turn. Then they changed their format to be less fact and more sizzle (Fox news anyone?) so I say good riddance.

[PeterUK]

"Why won't he release the long form? Maybe because he's enjoying seeing everybody obsessing over his BC and not his projected deficits?"

Sheesh,You have sufficient excess mental capacity to do both. In all probability both are illegitimate.

[Ruth H]

I have seen others write about Barry Sotero and his Indonesian birth certificate to get him in as a foreign student at Occidental College. My supposition, and that is all it is, is that was the fake birth certificate, and it is an embarrassment and only an embarrassment. But it prevents him from wanting any light shown on the real one.

[Jane]

On the other, it is his duty to serve, and to serve his country

I'm not mad at the soldier - after all we all serve our country in different ways.

I am increasingly convinced that Obama is residing in a house of cards. I have no idea if the birth certificate is legit and I'm not at all sure I care. But something is amiss here. It might just be that he's not particularly bright - or it could be that he is outwitting all of us.

So if he had to step down, Biden takes over. Does Biden get to select his own VP?

Biden is an idiot but at least he knows it, and hopefully would ask for help.

[Rick Ballard]

Mr Uk,

Barry Dunham's claim to the Presidency is as legitimate as his editorship of the Harvard Law Review. It's all of a piece.

[fdcol63]

"I have seen others write about Barry Sotero and his Indonesian birth certificate to get him in as a foreign student at Occidental College."

This might lead to the issue of whether or not he used an Indonesian passport instead of an American passport when he traveled to Pakistan, Indonesia, and elsewhere in the early 1980's, and whether or not he needed to renounce his US citizenship in order to secure/retain that Indonesian passport.

[willem]

I do think Major Cook has been poorly served by his counsel. Even if by some turn of future events Obama is found to be a Usurper and removed from office, he is currently the POTUS.

This case seems so transparently and poorly drawn, it's almost like there's a calculated disinformation campaign to maintain a flurry of bogus legal actions to prevent the cardinal constitutional issue of Obama's British Citizenship from entering the gestalt of the commons, much less a court of appropriate jurisdiction.

Sort of reminds me of the Obamabots "typical tax error confusion" spin about Kathleen Sebelius negative equity mortgages and her continuing mortgage deductions, where, ahem, the property securing the mortgage had been long before sold. We all have those rights under the law; don't we?

Equal protection under the law, right? Whoever your parents were, whoever your husband is, wherever you went to college, right?

It's still America, isn't it?

[narciso]

Actually people aren't focusing enough on either in my opinion, or any of a dozen other areas. stimulus plans that don't stimulate, tax chiefs who cheat, spy chiefs willing to throw his subordinates'under the bus' He's certainly used Saul Alinsky's Rule 4, 5, and 12 to great advantage Cloward and Piven, and their ideas of fiscal crisis, are also in his bag of tricks. The fact that his mindset is more like Ikemba's "African colonial", or my particular locution, of a Luo prince is most troubling, but what can be done about
it.

[clarice]

Jane, from Wikipedia:"The Twenty-fifth Amendment also made provisions for a replacement in the event that the Vice President died in office, resigned, or succeeded to the presidency. The original Constitution had no provision for selecting such a replacement, so the office of Vice President would remain vacant until the beginning of the next presidential and vice presidential terms. This issue had arisen most recently with the assassination of President Kennedy on November 22, 1963, and was rectified by Section 2 of the Twenty-fifth Amendment.

Chief Justice Warren Burger (right) swears in President Gerald Ford next to his wife, Betty Ford, following the resignation of President Richard NixonSection 2 of the Twenty-fifth Amendment provides that:

Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress.

Gerald Ford was the first Vice President selected by this method, after the resignation of Vice President Spiro Agnew in 1973; after succeeding to the Presidency, Ford nominated Nelson Rockefeller as Vice President.

Another issue was who had the power to declare that an incapacitated president is unable to discharge his duties. This question had arisen most recently with the illnesses of President Dwight D. Eisenhower. Section 3 and Section 4 of the amendment provide means for the Vice President to become Acting President upon the temporary disability of the president. Section 3 deals with self-declared incapacity of the president. Section 4 deals with incapacity declared by the joint action of the Vice President and of a majority of the Cabinet.

While Section 4 has never been invoked, section 3 has been invoked three times: on July 13, 1985 when Ronald Reagan underwent surgery to remove cancerous polyps from his colon, and twice more on June 29, 2002 and July 21, 2007 when George W. Bush underwent colonoscopy procedures requiring sedation. Prior to this amendment, Vice President Richard Nixon informally replaced President Dwight Eisenhower for several weeks on each of three occasions when Eisenhower was ill."

[

[Semanticleo]

or to believe some the same people who refer to Malia Obama as 'ghetto trash.'

The only person here who has referred to Malia -- or anyone else -- as "ghetto trash" is you, Geek, Esq.

It's not surprising that the only racist here is the leftist troll; what is surprising is that the racist leftist troll is honest enough to point out that the rest of us shouldn't believe people like him.

[Jane]

Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress.

SO no Nancy Pelosi.

[Dr. Weevil]

I still like the suggestion (not mine) that the secret of the birth certificate is that his real name is 'Barry Dunham'. In my more malicious moments I wonder whether his oddly-named mother named him 'Stanley Dunham, Jr'.

[Rick Ballard]

"So no Nancy Pelosi."

Who knows who might be selected by a President LePetomane Biden? We can only be certain that he would follow the guide star of his inner gerbil, as he has always done.

[fdcol63]

" ... of his inner gerbil ... "

LOL - reminded me of those stories you used to hear about gerbils, tubes, and rectums.

[Parking Lot]

((Why won't he release the long form? ))

Some people are arguing that no one in Hawaii can get their long form released. However whether that is true or not cannot be confirmed on Hawaii's DOH web site which is extremely fuzzy on the status of the long forms, where they are, in what form (digital or paper?), and can they be accessed, copied, etc.

The short form, the Certification of Live Birth, is the official abstract issued by the DOH that is acceptable for passports and everything else in Hawaii needing proof of birth.

[Sue]

In a divorce decree dated 1964, which I saw at Atlas Shrugs, I think, he is named Barack Hussein Obama, II. Whatever he is hiding, and I think he is indeed hiding something, just not where he was born, it isn't his name.

[Parking Lot]

((the same people who refer to Malia Obama as 'ghetto trash))

proof please

[Tom Maguire]

If I were forced to speculate, I'd guess there's something else embarassing there (e.g., father "unknown").

Hmm. As to there being something embarrassing, fair enough. But my theory that back in 1961 the mom and grandparents were worried about a possible custody scuffle suggests that "Father: Unknown" is somewhat likely as a birth certificate entry, even if the father *was* known (and the resemblance to the BH Sr. is pretty clear, isn't it?)

I don't even know what else would be on the ling form, so I don't know where to look for embarassment.

[MayBee]

Did Semantic just call someone a leftist troll?
What just happened there?

[MayBee]

But my theory that back in 1961 the mom and grandparents were worried about a possible custody scuffle suggests that "Father: Unknown" is somewhat likely as a birth certificate entry, even if the father *was* known (and the resemblance to the BH Sr. is pretty clear, isn't it?)

I don't think it's only embarrassing (to Obama) if the father was actually unknown. To be honest, that shouldn't be so very embarrassing. He can't help that.
It's just that the birth certificate might not say exactly what he wants it to say.
Who really cares, except for a man with a very carefully crafted biography?

[Danube of Thought]

Face it: if God came down tomorrow and announced that Obama was not a natural-born citizen, no court in the land would order his removal. Either the congress would do it or it would not be done. To believe otherwise is to indulge in the zaniest of fantasies.

[Sue]

Okay, in 1961, if you listed father unknown you were considered a bastard. Your BC would so note it. Would they have preferred Barry be known as a bastard or would they be more concerned with a custody battle?

[fdcol63]

Just replace the name. LOL

[Sue]

I think it has something to do with his stepfather. He was adopted, probably. The original BC would list Barack Hussein Obama. He probably can't get it because they reissue a BC listing your adopted parent as the original parent. Only a court order would allow Barack to get it, the records were sealed, if it indeed happened. The only BC he can get without a court order would be the one issued after his stepfather adopted him.

[MayBee]

I'm not interested because I think he'll be removed.

As I said, I'm interested that the Constitution sets criteria for President, and nobody seems to bother to actually check whether that criteria has been met.

[Sue]

My only interest in it is the conspiracy. I read every JFK conspiracy that is published. And I enjoy them thoroughly. Then I go back to lone shooter, killed by Jack Ruby. I love conspiracies.

[Pofarmer]

My sense is that too much focus on the naturn born Citizen issue will backfire on Obama's opponents and redound to Obama's benefit. I think the best way to undercut Obama is to focus on his reckless spending, lunatic cap and trade policies, desire to raise taxes in a recession, and desire to impose socialized medicine on the US.

You are talking about different kinds of matters. The first is a legal matter, the last are political matters. Mixing the legal and political is dangerous. And, as far as focusing on his policies, plenty of folks are happy with his policies and want to "give him a chance." All that is arguable. If there is something on his birthcertificate, or, a court finally hears it and finds that, indeed, being a British citizen at Birth disqualifies him, then, that is a different matter altogether. You can't undermine the law in a country at it's very base(the constitution) like this, and expect it to hold up anywhere else. There's been a very dangerous precedent set here, and I'd like to see it undone. I don't really care what the documents say, but they SHOULD be seen.

[willem]

I'm with MayBee. "I'm interested that the Constitution sets criteria for President, and nobody seems to bother to actually check whether that criteria has been met." That, and legislation passed that has never been read.

Taxation, taxation. Where's the representation? Passing legislation they haven't read, which is representative of exactly what?

How long can a nation and an economy built on merit and equal protection under the law survive on strict diet of duplicity and disingenuous?

From Obama to the SWAT teams in Maryland, we may have reached the critical mass our founders feared most.

Get ready. You might be next:

http://www.reason.com/news/show/134734.html

[Sue]

willem,

When that story first came out, it was proof GWB was going to declare martial law and never leave office, or some other such ridiculous notion. I didn't read through it, but is it now proof Obama is doing the same?

[DebinNC]

Obama is a pathological control freak. There's no way (imo) that a disqualifying document exists that could conceivably see the light of day. But embarrassing? Could be, but I don't see that losing him more support than he'd gain from sympathy or resentment toward the righty exposers.

[Appalled]

Leo (if that's your real name):

Geek isn't a troll -- just one of the old leftish visitors to JoM from its Palmy Plame days. And his reference isn't to commentors here, but to a obnoxious Free Republic thread discussed here.

[clarice]

It seems to be the latest Axelturf/DU gambit to go to right blogs, post racist crap and then point fingers and say ,"look how racist the other side is! This is what I found there."

Thans, semantic or whoever using your name, kicked Geek in the hind end for that.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

In my family and in families all over the country, I suspect, knowing who a person is and where they come from is very important. My Dad died when I was 13 and a couple of years later, his much put upon sister, 6 years his junior, said to me, "in some ways you are lucky, now that you are getting old enough to date, that your Dad is not around." It made me cry at the time.

Then she told me how her older brother (my father) and her father (my grandfather), chased away nearly every boy who showed any interest in her. She told me how they would embarrass her by giving the guys the 3rd degree - what were their life goals, who were their parents/grandparents, what type of job did they have, where did they live, and most important, what was their ancestral line. The joke was, "what does your 3rd cousin's brother-in-law's uncle's greatgrandfather do for a living?"

I saw this in full force when we moved to South Carolina and my daughter tried out for cheerleading and I was told that her talent and skill would play little part in whether she made the squad as who your family is/was and where you come from would be the deciding factor. My daughter was furious, but to me this seemed rather normal although in her case, she was the ultimate dread, a Yankee, in my case, being a Pennsylvanian, it was more staying away from what was called a "Johnny come lately," meaning they couldn't trace their family back to Revolutionary service.

To me, refusing to provide background and a long form birth certificate is more than suspicious. I can not understand why someone would spend millions to keep from producing something that could put the entire question to rest for the cost of about $15.

My biggest worry about Obama is his lack of understanding of what being an American means. He seems not to have an ounce of patriotism or love of country (at least not this country) in him. He is sadly deficient in American history, but even more so in the more intangible thing that inspires us as Americans and the can do spirit of independence. To me, he is not an American in any sense of the word, he just doesn't get what the glue is that has held us together and propelled us forward for more than 2 1/2 centuries.

It really really bothers me that he seems to have no respect for my country or the people who make it the great nation it is and has been. I think he would sell us out in a heartbeat.

[Janet]

Like bad said at 2:28, my kids had to show their birth certificates to participate in travel soccer. Not a copy, not a short form - it had to be THE birth certificate.

[peter]

I agree that the issue is a red herring, and there is a lot more to focus on as Obama drives the country to hell in a handbasket. However, I agree with Peter UK, that it is quite amazing that almost no one remembers him growing up. Hell, the first Messiah made an impression on all the elders when he was only twelve.