So That Would Be "Black Irish", I Guess

Here is an ABC News headline of which I am deeply dubious:

Harvard Prof Gates Is Half-Irish, Related to Cop Who Arrested Him

Really?  So Gates has a mother or father who is all-Irish?  Or two grandparents each of whom are half-Irish?  Who knew?!?

ABC fills us in:

In a PBS series on African-American ancestry that he hosted in 2008, Gates discovered his Irish roots when he found he was descended from an Irish immigrant and a slave girl.

He went to Trinity College in Dublin to have his DNA analyzed. There he found that he shared 10 of the 11 DNA matches with offspring of Niall of the Nine Hostages, the fourth century warlord who created one of the dominant strains of Irish genealogy because he had so many offspring.

Hmm - unless the Irish immigrant was his father and the slave girl was, well, I don't know (a love-slave?), this math doesn't work.

But better safe than sorry!  When Obama sits down with these two for a beer he better bring a couple of six-packs.  And one and a half baked potatoes.

FOR FOLKS SCORING AT HOME:  The LA Times repeats the "half-Irish" claim without missing a beat; we attribute that to professional deference.

Dan Riehl restates the information accurately - "Gates shares some common DNA with the Irish" - and refrains from unseemly "gotcha" prancing and preening.  (No, I am not educable by example, but thanks for asking.)

Don Surber also lets the headline slide.

MORE:  Gates on his home life.  Gates on Gates, from TIME:

We can now trace my family back to the 18th century. An Irishman fathered the children of Jane Gates, my great-great-grandmother, who was born a slave in 1819. It's a miracle of DNA technology.

That gets him up to 1/16th Irish; unless ABC has other relatives in mind, we won't be getting to 1/2 until St. Patrick's Day.

Comments

[jtaylor]

The Irish were well-known for racial intermarriage. I, myself had a maternal great grandfather, and a paternal great-great grandfather who married Native Americans.

But I don't look like an Indian, so Tom Maguire will be dubious.

[one of the 6 billion people in the world smarter than jtaylor]

Now we see why journalists aren't concerned with Obama raising tax rates over 50%; they think "half" means "1/128th".

[GMax]

The number of journalists who can even balance their own checkbook is quite small. If the story is numbers ( like rate of return or ROE ) and its not the WSJ reporters who mostly have B school class backgrounds, I generally assume its all bolixed up and ignor the story until I can see the data first hand and read it myself.

[GMax]

Jtaylor

Miss the point much?

[Sue]

But I don't look like an Indian, so Tom Maguire will be dubious.

Really? Are you claiming you are half Indian? I believe that Tom is dubious of the "half" in the equation. The only way Gates could be half Iris would be if one of his parents was full blood Irish. And unless one of your parents is full blood Indian, you are not "half" Indian.

[daddy]

Haven't read it, but simply want to comment once again that Gate's ancestor, Niall of the Nine Hostages, as far as I know, is the most famous ENSLAVER of innocent human's in Irish history. Why such an interesting and entertaining factoid never crosses the minds or the teletype or the keyboards of the Press amazes me. I have come to expect nothing of the MSM, and they have long since equaled my expectations.

[Sue]

Half Iris? I kind of like that. ::grin:: No offense to any Iris's in the house.

[Original MikeS]

Gates reminds me of that Jiminy guy who worked for Walt Disney. He was Irish too, I think.

[Tempestuous Toadstool]

"I believe that Tom is dubious of the "half" in the equation."

You miss the point. He doesn't 'look' Irish.

[Sue]

You miss the point.

I don't think so.

[Thomas Collins]

Aha! That explains the Gates/Crowley confrontation! Two temperamental Irishmen! My late father (descended from the Galway patch in the Emerald Isle) would have been proud of them! See LUN. :-))

[Sue]

I have done extensive genealogy on both sides of my family tree and I can't find a damn Irishman anywhere. And I so want to be "half" Irish. My mother looked Irish, beautiful green eyes, but if we are, I can't find it. My great-great grandmother had wicked wild red hair and green eyes, so I'm hoping someday to connect her to the green, green hills of home. I used to tease my mother, a devout Christian, that I was reincarnated from an Irish lass. She didn't find it amusing. ::grin::

[Sue]

He went to Trinity College in Dublin to have his DNA analyzed.

That is interesting. I didn't realize you could have your DNA analyzed to discover your Irish roots. I wonder how much that cost him? I wonder if I could do a documentary and have mine analyzed. I'd probably die a thousand deaths if they told me I have no Irish blood.

[Danube of Thought]

For those who didn't see her on Greta, the witness's lawyer, although she declined to reveal content, said that only one person was yelling, and it was Gates.

[Tempestuous Toadstool]

Tiger Woods is of Thai, Chinese and even some Dutch ancestry.

How come he don't look Thai?

[Mike Myers]

I think that Gates is supposed to have once said that he was "shocked to discover that he was 57% Irish and Jewish".

I like that 57 number; it's the same as Obama's number of states, and the number of brands that John Kerry's wife sells. There's something about the water up there in Boston.

As for being Irish--my grandmother Murphy told me that her Irish ancestors were thrown out of Ireland for being pig thieves. I'm glad to know that I share something in common with Professor Gates.

[Porchlight]

Sue, I believe there are companies that will analyze your DNA for you. You swab the inside of your mouth and send it to them.

[Porchlight]

I think Tiger does look Thai, a little bit.

[Sue]

Porch,

I didn't know that. I might look into it.

[Mr Nkrumah to you]

"pig thieves. I'm glad to know that I share something in common with Professor Gates."

That wouldn't be Kosher, for a jew.

[Porchlight]

My cousin did it, Sue - I don't think it's particularly expensive. I could find out which company she used if you're interested.

[Sue]

Porch,

Thanks, I would appreciate that.

[Original MikeS]

I think that Gates is supposed to have once said that he was "shocked to discover that he was 57% Irish and Jewish"

Red haired milkman 'splains the Irish. Do Jewish people have genetic markers?

[DebinNC]

Last February, Time asked Gates 10 questions sent in by readers. Asked about his ancestry, he said:

We can now trace my family back to the 18th century. An Irishman fathered the children of Jane Gates, my great-great-grandmother, who was born a slave in 1819. It's a miracle of DNA technology.

He said checking his dna cost no more than "a pair of sneakers"...which may be high if he wears Michelle's brand.

[ben]

"I, myself had a maternal great grandfather, and a paternal great-great grandfather who married Native Americans.

But I don't look like an Indian, so Tom Maguire will be dubious."

jtaylor, you are wasting time here, you could be starting a casino.

[Teddy]

Mary Jo, you look like you've, ah, got a little Irish in ya.
No?
Would you like some?

[BB Key]

OT
Sue I posted something for you on the birth certificate discussion.
Thanks

[Mary Jo]

Teddy, let's cross that bridge when we come to it.

[jimmyk]

Sue, I believe there are companies that will analyze your DNA for you. You swab the inside of your mouth and send it to them.

Yes, but I'm not sure detecting something like Irish descent from DNA is so straightforward. At the very least you'd need the DNA of your possible ancestors to match it to. There's no Irish gene.

[Original MikeS]

We can now trace my family back to the 18th century. An Irishman fathered the children of Jane Gates, my great-great-grandmother, who was born a slave in 1819.

I'm no Harvard professor, but I think 1819 is in the 19th century.

[PDinDetroit]

Irish on my Mom's Side, Scottish on my Dad's Side.

No wonder I am always fighting with myself...

[Sue]

BB Key,

Okay.

[Sue]

There's no Irish gene.

Aw, don't say that. Maybe it's the Guinness they detect.

[Boatbuilder]

Hey Sue--I'm fairly certain they will find that you are a descendant of Niall of the Nine Hostages. Or Brian Boru. Just like everybody else.

[Boatbuilder]

"There's no Irish gene."

Most of them are really named Eugene.

[Porchlight]

Sent an email to my cousin, Sue, and will let you know what I hear.

[GMax]

Yes detecting whether the male markers in your DNA match up with others of the same surname is available and relatively inexpensive. I think it was around $50 for a certain number of markers and a little more to go to like 14 markers.

When my Maxwell Genealogy hit a wall at my GGGG grandfather, we tried this. Unfortunately, our markers were totally unlike any of the other Maxwell lines identified in the US. There was some indication that our markers were a better match for some middle eastern locations and lines, which odd for us fair skinned read haired clan to fathom, but people of Jewish descent populated the whole world, so anything is possible if you go back far enough.

[Danube of Thought]

Battleground poll (likely voters): Obama approval 53%. Overall RCP average: 54%.

[Extraneus]

An Irishman fathered the children of Jane Gates, my great-great-grandmother, who was born a slave in 1819.

So his great-great-grandfather was Irish, which would make him 1/16 Irish, assuming the rest of his great-great-grandfathers weren't also Irish.

[windansea]

From NBC's Mark Murray
Here's our first tease of tonight's NBC/WSJ poll: By a 27%-11% margin, Americans say that Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. was more at fault for his recent arrest than the Cambridge police officer was.

But a greater number, 29%, believe that both were equally at fault. And 31% say they didn't know enough to have an opinion

[GMax]

NBC certainly found a lot of folks who are lucky to find their way home every night? Think they just polled their viewers?

[PWT]

3 Irishmen in a room? Better bring some Jameson's to go along with the Buds. And, better keep the Secret Service around for when things get ugly - with Irishmen and liquor, they always do.

A. Lynch

[Richard Aubrey]

Irish. I'm Irish, Scot, Welsh, and Breton.
Our epic poem--equivalent to The Iliad--is "The Cattle Raid of Cooley".
We're cattle thieves (gentleman drovers) and we hire out to fight.
When somebody does well, he usually fails. He's betrayed or gets above himself. Unless he emigrates. Then he might amount to something.
What's not to like?

[bad]

If Gates parents were both half white and half black, wouldn't he be half black and half white as well?

Or what if one was 3/4 white and 1/4 black while the other parent was 1/4 white and 3/4 black, wouldn't Gates still be half white and half black?

[Original MikeS]

But a greater number, 29%, believe that both were equally at fault. And 31% say they didn't know enough to have an opinion

When I first heard the Gates arrest story I was one of the people who had a hard time understanding how someone could get arrested for breaking into his own house. As I heard more of the facts and the opinions of the other officers who were present it became clear that Gates wasn't arrested for breaking into his house, or for being a black man, or even for following the police officer outside and loudly haranguing the police officer in public. Gates was arrested because he refused to stop yelling as he was haranguing officer Gates.

Prior to Gates' arrest I do not understand what he was angry about. If a police officer came to my door this very moment and asked for my ID, should that make me angry? If I had just broken into my own house and as a result the police came, should that make me angry?

[fdcol63]

For some reason, I believe that had a black police officer been the first to arrive at the Gates house, Gates would have harangued said officer for being an "Uncle Tom" sellout for "whitey".

[Jane]

Sue,

I'm half Iris and half lily.

[fdcol63]

The sad reality is that Gates doesn't recognize that he himself is a sellout for "whitey".

But he does his Bojangles routine for the Ivy League, elitist, liberal whites in academia.

[Jane]

Windansea,

They should take that poll in Massachusetts. From what I have seen it would be about 99 -1 in favor of Crowley.

And I'm lovin' it.

[bad]

OMS, I think Gates was initially angry because the cop didn't recognize him, Gates, the famous Harvard professor. Heck, everybody knows who Skippy is, HE'S BEEN ON TV.

Then the opportunity to experience racial profiling and be the victim of the racism he's lectured on his entire professional life, but never experienced outside of academia, was too exciting to pass up. It wasn't exactly a situation lending itself to his racism fantasy, but Hey, it's not like professors are the brightest bulbs in the chandelier.

[fdcol63]

As the saying goes:

"Those who can, do.
Those who can't, teach."

[Fresh Air]

So by this logical process, can we now say Zero is half-Communist, half-Marxist?

[bad]

Jane, if you are half lily and half iris, then you are even more beautiful than your voice.

[fdcol63]

I think Zero is half "a$$", and half "hole".

[Dave (in MA)]

For her sake I hope it's not his lower half that's Irish. (Oh, no - you di'int!)

[I get to say that since I'm also 1/2 Irish]

[HMI]

>We can now trace my family back to the 18th century. An Irishman fathered the children of Jane Gates, my great-great-grandmother, who was born a slave in 1819.<

>>I'm no Harvard professor, but I think 1819 is in the 19th century.<<

Clearly you're not: no Harvard professor would make the error of assuming that Gates' had not also traced his ancestry back farther along the Irishman's line.

[Original MikeS]

I have to admit that I am biased against Gates since I found out that his ancestors have been discriminating against my ancestors for about 1200 years.

Since 800 AD, during the summer months my ancestors have been sailing south from Denmark to visit Ireland on holiday or looking for summer work, or sometimes just for dating purposes. Gates' ancestors would literally hide their daughters and their money when they heard my ancestors were on their way. This insulting behavior by Gates' ancestors resulted in bad blood between them and my ancestors which persists to this day.

[bad]

LOL

[fdcol63]

And in other news .... Gates was shocked, shocked!, to discover that even his IRISH ancestors had been slaves at times, at the hands of Original MikeS's Nordic ancestors.

LOL

[HMI]

"Hey, it's not like professors are the brightest bulbs in the chandelier."

No, of course not. The PhDs come in Crackerjack boxes; no effort involved. And you don't actually have to *know* anything. Which is why 'bad' here could be a professor. At Harvard. Anybody could.

[Original MikeS]

no Harvard professor would make the error of assuming that Gates' had not also traced his ancestry back farther along the Irishman's line.

So, was my error the assuming (I thought I was inferring) or the assumption?

[Dave (in MA)]

Sing along with MikeS:

♪♫ "SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM..." ♫♪

[wombly]

This is a non-event.

Niall of the Nine Hostages was so far back, that at least 2 billion people alive today are his descendants. This includes all white people, all black people with some white ancestry, and all Hispanic people with some white ancestry.

So most of the people reading this now are descendants of Niall of the Nine Hostages.

Similarly, anyone of any Eurasian ancestry (white, Arab, Indian, Chinese) are descendants of Genghis Khan. This, too, accounts for 4 billion people.

[wombly]

Another problem is :

Why is someone who is 50% black considered 'black' without question.

Obama = 50% black
Tiger Woods = less than 50% black (as his father would not be 100%)
Halle Berry = less than 50% black, same reason.

So why are they automatically 'black'?

[bad]

And you don't actually have to *know* anything. Which is why 'bad' here could be a professor. At Harvard. Anybody could.

You are wise, HMI....

[Jane]

Awww Bad, thanks.

When as a kid I asked my grandfather where we came from he repied: "horse thieves and Indians".

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[Tom Maguire]

Half Iris? I kind of like that. ::grin::

I squinted at that too.

[Now I am riding that Comeback Pony. Italiacto!]

[HMI]

So, was my error the assuming (I thought I was inferring) or the assumption?

An incorrect assumption (that Gates traced his ancestry no farther than Jane Gates) based on a mistaken inference (the only date mentioned is 1819, so he must have stopped there), I'd say.

[PeterUK.]

IIRC,If you had one Irish grandparent you were entitled to an Irish Passport.Perhaps Gates needed somewhere offshore?

[Mwalimu Daudi]

What is ABC's angle here? That "Gatesgate" is an example of anti-Irish bigotry? The mind boggles!

I guess the America-is-a-mean-racist-country-where-the-KKK-is-found-under-every-bed meme is not working too well for the left-wing journos anymore.

[Extraneus]

AA?

[Extraneus]

italics?

[JM Hanes]

OMikeS:

ROTFLMAO! And isn't it just typical that Obama would only point out Americans' long history of profiling?

BTW, this year, Inkwell will underwrite the digitizing of 18th century classified newspaper ads which included any variation on "Irish need not apply."

[verner]

Yeah, Gates is Irish and Jewish and black etc,. and supposedly has been an advocate for eliminating the hateful concept of race from the human vocabulary--yet HE is the one who the second he didn't have the "respect" he deserved as a very important person, unlike the stupid cops he was dealing with, pulled the RACE CARD.

Hey Gates. here's a little Irish for Ya!

Pog Mo Thoin.

And that goes for your jug eared friend too.

[Original MikeS]

An incorrect assumption (that Gates traced his ancestry no farther than Jane Gates)

So, you must know the lineage of the Irishman who mated with Jane Gates? Else, how would you know my inference was incorrect?

[Ralph L]

And one and a half baked potatoes.
I'd say two half-baked potatoes and one Crowley.

[suze]

Your headline caught my eye...I'm 100% Irish American (3rd gen) and whenever I hear about reparations and reverse discrimination for blacks, it stokes my gut!! The "black irish" are the Irish immigrants who did the menial work that Blacks Refused to Do, bec they were "freed" and too good for it!!!! The Irish were enslaved - in America - many came over to work in subhuman conditions in factories and homes. We took the work we could get, despite MASSIVE DISCRIMINATION and physical abuse. We learned to speak English, dropped our accents, integrated, earned, saved, got educated and lifted ourselves up - WITHOUT govt programs, entitlement laws, or reparations. And we helped each other - v. this ridiculous generation of determined-to-be-thugs black who belittle those who advance and cling to their historic oppression.

It makes me SO angry to hear the whining and the cowering - from a people that have been given SO MUCH!!! This great country has provided to blacks enforced employment, free education, so much advantage. This Gates clown is a gisgusting display of what liberal Demprograms that piur entitlements on people, without requiring any self sufficiency has produced.

PS The guy does NOT own the house he lives in Cambridge; Harvard does. It was entirely appropriate to ask for his ID, and the Cambrdge house address whould have not run back to his name, if the police officer had verified.

[Aubrey]

Gates recognized an opportunity and took advantage of it. This will earn him fees for speaking, consulting and the book he will surely write. Exploiting race is the business he has been in his entire professional career, just as has Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson and others.

[Ralph L]

Gates said his father could pass for white. It's curious that both Gates and Obama grew up where there were very few other blacks (WV and HI).

[Dave (in MA)]

Ha, TM italifried his own blog.

[PeterUK.]

Aubrey.
Exactly,this was Gates's "Purple Heart" moment,same a John F.Kerry.
"And the other one is for having a drink with the ba****d".

[Extraneus]

In a racial-spoils-based society like ours, it behooves everyone (except white males) for part-minority folks, even those who are minority-minorities -- only a small part minority -- to be considered full-fledged minorities. Businesses can claim statistics which achieve government-mandated targets and can qualify for government-funded projects; governmnet entitities can qualify for minority-based funding set-asides; individuals can be rewarded with race- or gender-based gimmies. Everyone wins, almost.

[Fresh Air]

...why are they automatically 'black'?

Wombly--

Zero married the Black Klingon and sat in a black racist preacher's church for 20 years. Don't ask me why this matters as to his actual race. Only the MSM who invented the Myth of Zero can answer that.

[Extraneus]

(I should have said "Asian or white non-Hispanic males," unless that doesn't quite cover it either. It's complicated. :-))

[Extraneus]

Asian or white non-Hispanic, non-Native-American males? Tricky, that's for sure.

[Dave in OC]

OT,

It appears that our "Bartender in Chief" is now getting his instructions directly from Zelaya. Per TheHill.com the commie wannabe told the BIC to revoke those visas from the Honduran Chief Justice and head of the military. This is really much worse than it appeared. Sorry I still haven't figured out how to do links but here's the URL:

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/zelaya-asked-obama-to-revoke-honduran-visas-2009-07-29.html

[Sue]

Dave,

♪♫ "SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM..." ♫♪

I need the code for the musical notes for the next time I serenade the board with Happy Birthday.

[Sue]

Oh crap, I should have said please.

[Original MikeS]

Yup. What Aubrey said!

[Sam]

I got my DNA tested through a National Geographic DNA mapping project a couple of years ago. It cost $100 and some of the money went towards testing other folks in various parts of the world.

In my case the DNA markers couldn't pin the location of my ancestry to any closer than Northern Europe. Some exact and nearly exact matches were located in Britain, Wales, Ireland, and Scotland as well as northern France and Holland. Which fits well with the genealogical records of the family that puts us in that group of immigrants that eventually became Nascar drivers and Country-Western singers.

[Kat]

Someone once told me that the red-heads in Ireland were the result of Viking rapes, and as such would be only "half-Irish" themselves. Perhaps Prof Gates is channeling his inner-Viking in his attempt to pillage and burn Sgt Crowley's career?

[JM Hanes]

wombly:

"Niall of the Nine Hostages was so far back, that at least 2 billion people alive today are his descendants."

I'm thinking 6 degrees of separation here.

My paternal progenitors were Scottish, and I must admit, I always considered myself half Scot. Until I tried to play the bagpipes. And went to Scotland.

A decade or two later, on a walk in Edinburgh, my daughter and I came across a lone piper, playing an extraordinary, haunting piece of music. He was kilted, of course, with shirt sleeves rolled up, a perfect profile and long, wildly curling, black hair. To this day, we refer to the elusive, fabulously romantic guy of your dreams, who makes your heart -- and hormones -- race, as "a Wallace." It's sort of a feminine version of calling someone a 10.

I hereby denounce my daughter and myself for such patent, historically pernicious, profiling. Is it also racist to enjoy killing salmon yet? If so, I denounce myself for that too.

[Porchlight]

I dunno Kat, but my inner Viking (my dad's paternal grandparents came from Sweden) is enraged just watching him.

[Professor_X]

Look up TOBA CATASTROPHE on Wikipedia.

This theory states ALL people come from a VERY SMALL gene pool; around 10,000 individuals scattered around the globe. This happened around 70,000 years ago.

No, it wasn't due to global warming.

RACE is an irrelevant classification based on sight and prejudice, not on reality.

[HMI]

>> So, you must know the lineage of the Irishman who mated with Jane Gates? Else, how would you know my inference was incorrect?<<

You're right: I couldn't know your inference was incorrect. Nor, equally, had you the slightest reason to impute to Gates the inability to tell 18th from 19th century—except, of course, for your fervent desire to show that Gates is in the wrong in every possible regard.

[bad bob]

here's what I wonder about Gates - Say you live in a neighborhood where reportedly there had been numerous break-ins.

Someone calls 911 to report two people breaking into your house. A cop shows up, and just accepts it when they tell him they live there without any ID or follow-up.

What if it turns out they did not? What if, in fact, after apologizing to them for taking up their valuable time, the cop left, and they just took the opportunity to clean you out?

Would you have any criticism at all of the cop's behavior? Most sentient beings would guess that you would indeed. Probably a lot of criticism, and maybe even a lawsuit or somesuch, and almost certainly some inferences that they would have protected your property more vigorously if they'd known you were a white property owner.

Well, after all this, I think if I were a thief and in your local area (I'm neither one...) I'd take a run at your house - my odds have to be pretty good that no one would want to get involved by reporting it, and even if they did my odds with the cops might be better than usual...

[exhelodrvr]

"Do Jewish people have genetic markers?"

Circumcision?

[Original MikeS]

Viking rapes
??

Don't you mean, "romantic interludes with blue eyed strangers"?

[Dave (in MA)]

Sue, I can never remember that sort of thing, so I just googled 'html musical notes' and used copy/paste. Some blogs will allow you to put in special characters and even show you them in Preview, but then after Post you get something else or nothing in your comment and you look dumb. This is not one of those blogs, however, so here's something positive about Typepad for a change.

[HMI]

"Do Jewish people have genetic markers?"

Circumcision?

Brains?