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July 25, 2009

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Pops

So let's change this situation a little to see if the libertarian argument, that you can holler, scream at police all you want, holds up.
Let's say the person who called the police was reporting an accident in front of the house Gates rented, not a burglary.

Officer Crowley rolls up on the scene and two cars have smashed into each other - one car with white family, one with a black.

The officer assesses the situation and begins calling for support, an ambulance and firetruck arrive.

Mr. Gates comes out on his porch and starts screaming at the officer. He claims the officer is a racist pig because he's providing EMT to the white person first. He starts screaming racial epitaphs at the officer and gathering a crowd. The officer is attempting to respond to a citizen call and resolve the situation.

Crowley decides that due to Gates actions he is making the situation worse and more dangerous. He warns him repeatedly to calm down and go back into his house. Gates refuses and continues to berate the people that this is how black people are treated in white America.

The Gates supporters posting have claimed that Gates has every right to continue to make the problem more difficult and interfere with the officer performing his duties and that the Officer should just tolerate the idiot jerk because we live in a free country.

I say BULL. The Officer would be doing the absolutely right thing to put Gates under arrest and remove him from the scene.

Regardless if its Gates residence, the officer doesn't work for you personnally, he works for the citizenry and his responsibilities go beyond you and Mr. Gates personnel issues with law enforcement.

Jane

Crowley should lawyer up, not with a defense lawyer but a civil lawyer and sue Gates for every penny he has, plus his pension.

That should help - not.

What I am struck by is the fact that this entire sordid situation was transported to the National stage by our presidebt. I agree it is a "teaching moment". And I suspect it has taught a lot of people that the guy we elected is an idiot.

Rick Ballard

Pops,

Dunno if you'll get a bite on that. I've never noticed that libertarians have much understanding regarding the duty to keep the peace, let alone the duty to assist the scir reeve in maintaining order. It appears that they mainly imagine themselves as barons confronting King John at Runnymede (or worse yet, Robin Hood and his band of thieves). Just more fruit of the Endarkenment.

syn

"Once Gates identified himself as the homeowner there ceased to be a crime."


1) Harvard University owns the home, Gates is a guest.

2) Gates only produced a Harvard ID which is not the same thing as a drivers license or a US Passport.

3) Gates acted like a raving lunatic; I cannot expect police officers to risk their lives on some weird possibility that a raving lunatic would NOT, at some point, endanger their lives.

Extraneus

Good work, Skippy!

syn

Lastly, Libertarians are far too obsessed with porn to be able to think rationally; watching other people's daughters get screwed by five guy while a pogo stick is up her anal cavity is not conductive to a rational, reasonable or thoughtful manner.

Extraneus
The President is now seen as politically liberal by 76%. That’s up six points from a month ago, 11 points since he was elected, and the highest total to date. Forty-eight percent (48%) now see him as Very Liberal, up 20 points since he was elected...
Extraneus

26% Say Obama Response Good or Excellent on Cambridge Cop Question

But Americans are evenly divided as to whether or not the question - asked by Lynn Sweet of the Chicago Sun-Times - was appropriate to ask at a presidential press conference. Forty-one percent (41%) say it was appropriate while 43% disagree.
Heh. Wonder what the party breakdown was on that 43.

Pops

"Once Gates identified himself as the homeowner there ceased to be a crime."

No, that would have been lying to a police officer, another crime. Gates was in fact not the homeowner.

In addition, regardless if it was true, the officer had not confirmed with the witness that Gates was the man trying to break-in.

She said she witnessed two men attempting a break-in. For all Crowley knew, those two men could have either been in the residence, ran around the house, were hiding in the bushes, etc. etc.

But I guess what your trying to say is that when the cop saw Gates, he should have automatically assumed he was the suspected burglar, because he's black, or he should have assumed the women saw Gates and confused him with a burglar because those black people all look alike.....

Pops

Of course officers would never have to worry about something like this that just happened yesterday:

BETHESDA, Ohio — A sheriff says an Ohio man shot and killed his wife and then killed himself after deputies called to calm the arguing couple had left the scene.

Sheriff Fred Thompson of the Belmont County Sheriff's Office in eastern Ohio says 68-year-old Frank Koci shot his wife, Bonnie, also 68, before shooting himself.

Thompson says deputies were called to the couple's home Thursday afternoon after receiving a report of people arguing.

Thompson says deputies left after calming the couple down, but the slaying apparently happened once officers left the scene.

-----------------------------

Now Obama would say, look the guys 68 and feeble, you certainly wouldn't arrest the guy in his own home.....

Pops

Here's another good one where the obedient cops left the scene:

INTRUDER ELUDES POLICE
Six police officers and a police dog searched the OUTSIDE of a house for signs of a burglary as an armed intruder waited inside for them to leave and then raped the woman he was holding hostage who had called for help, authorities said yesterday.
----------------------------------------
Gee, wonder why cops like to check out in the house nowadays.

PD

Having a beer at the WH doesn't prove a thing. If Obama wants to prove he's serious, then instead of having Crowley and Gates come there, he needs to take three jets and travel to Cambridge on taxpayer expense to show the depth of his concern.

Ralph L

A common error, but O doesn't know when to use the subjunctive:
"I mean, if I was trying to jigger into -- well, I guess this is my house now...."

Ralph L

Did anyone link this very long profile of Gates from 1998 (LUN)?
His mother apparently was very angry.

clarice

James Lewis: Continuing to indulge these paranoid crazies is making us a crazy nation:
http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/07/indulging_craziness.html

verner

Ex, I'd say that 26% represents his rock solid base. We now know his bottom.

The most interesting data is that 48% consider him "very liberal."

He's done. His only hope is for the Repubs to win the midterms and have someone like Cantor take on a "Newt" role. That way he cantake the credit for the economic turn around.

And a little something I heard about Health Care. If they don't vote before the August recess, the Insurance Companies etc. are going to hit the airways with both guns blaring. And my info is that they won't vote. The so called "blue dogs" will hold it up in committee. They hate Waxman and don't trust him because he's a back stabber.

Jane

Clarice,

That James Lewis piece is spectacular.

DebinNC

I've been trying to figure out how Barry Dunham could use his incoherence in English as a "teachable moment". There is no "legacy of slavery" involved with him.

Rick, sorry I didn't see your post addressed to me yesterday. In a nutshell, I believe there's a difference between writing about Obama's intentional lies and Biden-esque gaffes, which would be useful, and trying to prove he's "illiterate" by chronicling his mangling of English, which imo would be needlessly incendiary and hurtful to many blacks. Race pimps could easily cry, "See, whites don't even think a black who's president can talk 'right'," and whip up a racial firestorm which only Obama the race healer could put out.

Oh, the speech he could then give on how the black venacular came to be, how slaves were prohibited from learning to read, how Jim Crow disparity produced inferior schooling for black children, how that disparity continues today, etc., etc.. It could be a speech for the ages. If so, why provide him a reason to give such a speech at a time when he's feverishly seeking a way to rehabilitate himself and get his favorables up? I see no reason to do that.

Ignatz Ratzkywatzky

--He starts screaming racial epitaphs at the officer and gathering a crowd.--

Color coded death threats? He definitely should be arrested for that. :)

--Pops,

Dunno if you'll get a bite on that.--

Rick and Pops,
A real libertarian believes that government is best that governs least, but also in the rule of law.
Libertariansim quickly becomes anarchy absent a strong culture of personal responsibility and morality. It is precisely in these seemingly small, personal, local disputes involving neighbors where personal responsibility should be reinforced. As a libertarian I find nothing wrong with the arrest of Mr. Gates due to his disruption of the lives of his neighbors and his refusal to calm down when asked to by the officer charged with keeping the neighborhood peaceful.
Unfortunately our culture has become ennervated and amoral so libertarianism has become, as syn points out, the home of libertine idiots rather than Madisonian constitutionalists.

BTW, Pops you write some excellent posts.


Rocco

From John Locke's Second Treatise on Government

"The end of Law is not to abolish or restrain, but to preserve and enlarge Freedom: For in all the states of created beings capable of Laws, where there is no Law, there is no Freedom. For Liberty is to be free from restraint and violence from others, which cannot be, where there is no Law: But Freedom is not, as we are told, A Liberty for every Man to do what he
lists: (For who could be free, when every other Man’s Humour might domineer over him?) But a Liberty to dispose, and order, as he lists, his Person, Actions, Possessions, and his whole Property, within the Allowance of those Laws under which he is; and therein not to be subject to the
arbitrary Will of another, but freely follow his own."

Was Sgt Crowley trying to abolish or preserve Professor Gates person, possesions and property? There can be no freedom without the rule of law.

Contrarian

No one in all this rhetoric about how bad the black man acted is discussing the elephant in the room: what about the neighbor who called the police? She obviously had a good view, because she was able to describe the scene, down to the backpacks on the porch. If she has been in the neighborhood for more than a month, she KNEW Gates lived there.

The other issue is that Gates was actually already in the house. He did not have a driver's license to show the cop because he does not drive (several hip operations and a replacement) and the person with him was his driver. They were trying to unstick a warped front door. Now, think about this. If Gates and driver were actually burglars, do you think they would be going through the front door, especially since one of the men had gone in through another already?

The man had just returned from an overseas trip, was sick from bronchitis and (if you know about hip replacements) was in some pain. That alone justifies serious crankiness. Add to that the cops showing up, challenging your right to be in your own home and then insulting you by questioning the IDs you present--Crowley called the Harvard rent-a-cops to make sure the ID was not fake. Crowley has been a cop in Cambridge long enough to KNOW what a Harvard ID should look like.

I'm not counting on the tape at this point. The cops have had it long enough to splice and edit the hell out of it so that Gates will sound like Richard Pryor and Crowley will sound like the Pope. Heck, give the tape to any teenager with a computer and they could have that edit in less than an hour. Sorry, but I believe that is happening.

Rick Ballard

Deb,

Thank you for the reply. I am reminded of my blindness regarding the potential for success of cheap hucksters. I never thought BJ could be elected - surely the electorate would see him as I did - a glib used car salesman in a shiny suit. You may be absolutely correct that our current race hustler could flip a trump on this. I refuse to guess about the Muddle's reaction.

Ignatz,

I certainly agree that Libertariansim quickly becomes anarchy absent a strong culture of personal responsibility and morality. but my greatest difficulty with the ideology lies with its focus upon the individual and the individual's supposed ability to differentiate and decide based upon adherence to principles which range from overly broad to unduly restrictive, with the majority falling between. It is not so much that I mistrust those who promote the ideology as that I am certain of its unworkability due to the mental limitations of a very significant portion of the populace. I have no wish to have a neighbor who constantly screams of rights without having any concept of duties.

Ignatz Ratzkywatzky

--It is not so much that I mistrust those who promote the ideology as that I am certain of its unworkability due to the mental limitations of a very significant portion of the populace. I have no wish to have a neighbor who constantly screams of rights without having any concept of duties.--

Agreed Rick.
In a working libertarian society that neighbor would sink or swim on his own. Should he sink, voluntary charitable organizations would give him a hand to find his place to survive, which everyone except the profoundly disabled can find.
And to prevent that neighbor from imposing a welfare state it's my opinion, and it's certainly not original with me, that only taxpayers, or perhaps the propertied should have the franchise. If you're not a stakeholder then you don't get to vote on the stakes.

Try again, contrarian.

'Serious crankiness' gets serious response. Free the tape, contrarian; you don't have to believe your eyes. Gates was escalating the situation to a retreating cop. Wrong move, anywhere, anytime, any content of character.

Barbara

"-- well, I guess this is my house now...." Obama

No, Barry. It isn't "your house."

Captain Hate

Sorry, but I believe that is happening.

Nobody cares what you believe, troll. I'm sure people that've had hip replacements and are still driving would get a good laugh out of your argument about how Gates, who never seems to turn down any accoutrements of privilege, needs a driver yet brags about his bike riding prowess, you fucking simpleton.

And nice move to blame the neighbor; even Gates hasn't gone that far. Well done, douche.

MayBee

The other issue is that Gates was actually already in the house. He did not have a driver's license to show the cop because he does not drive

It goes against Gate's assertion that he showed both his Harvard ID (no address) AND his driver's license.

And what's with this "burglars wouldn't go through the front door" thing? Burglars do, in fact, go through front doors.

clarice

The troll has mastered the art of MSO (Making shit Up), hasn't he?

clarice

MSU

bad

No one in all this rhetoric about how bad the black man acted is discussing the elephant in the room: what about the neighbor who called the police? She obviously had a good view, because she was able to describe the scene, down to the backpacks on the porch. If she has been in the neighborhood for more than a month, she KNEW Gates lived there.

Can't remember where I read this but the person who called was not a neighbor but a Harvard employee walking to work.

The accuracy of that statement is debatable as I only recall reading it from one source.

clarice

The statement like most of the MSU post assumes a lot--good view, extent of knowledge of neighbors--Campbridge like DC is a highly transient population--In my neighborhood over the past two years there's been an almost 100% turnover of my closest neighbors. I now know only one -barely--and none of the others. The one I know is first secretary of an Embassy who next year will certainly be relocated, too.

MayBee

It's true, clarice! MSU indeed. It took me over a year to determine whether there was actually someone living in the house immediately next door to us.

The Monster

Mr. Obama did not use the word “apology,”

Not that doing so would matter. The word "apolog{y|ize}" does not constitute an apology. It describes an apology. Saying you're doing something isn't doing it. Saying "I apologize" or "Let me offer an apology" is not an apology.

An apology is "I'm sorry {I|we} {did this|let this happen}, and I'm going to do whatever I can to make sure it doesn't happen again." And then the actions have to back up the words, or the apology is empty.

Michael G. Gallagher

In your hearts you know this is the only way. Gates, stimulus, taxes, UGH. Time to clear the arteries, unclog the toilet, toss that smelly trash bag into the incinerator, etc, it's TIME!!!

Dear people, wherever you may be,

I've just finished rereading Atlas Shrugged for the third time. The first two times (a long time ago) I applied its lessons to the collapse of the Soviet Bloc. Now Ayn Rand's work seems more pertinent than ever due the events unfolding in my homeland.

The reason I say my homeland is because I'm an expatriate American English teacher living in South Korea. I've been living and working in the ROK for twelve years, but I still send in my absentee ballot for presidential elections every four years.

What I've been seeing taking place in the USA since January 20 is making me more upset by the day. The mounting deficits, the growing and dangerous dependence on China (many South Koreans are very jittery about China) to finance those deficits, the talk of instituting new (VAT and a big one at that) taxes to help cover those very same deficits, the bailouts of GM, and particularly Chrysler, the attempt to remove choice and private enterprise from the U.S. health care system, the stimulus that went mostly to government drones rather things that would really stimulate, and above all, the despicable behavior of the mainstream media in covering up Obama's real Chicago background. I had to go and find the red star at the top of William Ayers website all by myself!

All these things have made me very alarmed concerning the future of my country. So I've reached one overriding conclusion: it's time for Americans to revolt against royal authority for the second time in 234 years.

I say this because I don't believe the traditional legislative process can stop my country's slide towards the comfortable euthanasia of West European-style socialism. With the idiocy of Bush to guide them, the Republicans have done a very creditable job of taking Dirty Harry's 357. and pointing it at least at their feet, if not their heads.

So it's time to revolt. This will be a difficult idea for many Americans to grasp. After all, we are the product of a culture that has been based on the rule of law from its very beginnings back in medieval England.

What I'm talking about is starving the Government Beast. Come next April 15, 2010 don't send in your tax forms. Refuse to pay! If you're a small businessman don't pay your state (If you live in California, New York, or New Jersey, this applies especially to you) or federal business taxes. Don't pay your licensing fees! When the Bush tax cuts expire in 2011, don't file! Simply don't feed the Beast!

If you're worried about prosecution, there's safety in numbers. If ten million Americans refuse to pay, the looters can't possibly oppress more than a very small number of people. If ten million small business people refuse to knuckle under to the New Jealously Class, then the Beast will be truly crippled and will be forced to beg for mercy. View your refusal to pay blackmail to the looters as a civil rights issue along the lines of what inspired Martin Luther King during the civil rights movement of the 1950s and the early 1960s. IT IS NOT YOUR PATRIOTIC DUTY TO PAY HIGHER TAXES! In fact, it can be considered a form of treason to file on April 15, 2010.

Anyway, this has happened before. What most Americans don't remember or never learned is that in the run-up to the American Revolution the British backed down twice over the issue of taxes. Parliament repealed both the Stamp Act and the Townshend Acts in the face of fierce colonial protests. Remember, the looters don't have the mighty Royal Navy behind them, or ranks of hard fighting British Grenadiers, all they have in their favor is the willingness to submit of a people who have been comfortable for far too long.

If you don't think this is too insane, PASS IT ON!!!!

Michael G. Gallagher, Ph.D.
Seoul, Korea

clarice

Dear MGG Ph.D. --I am too afraid that if I don't pay my taces I'll be appointed to the cabinet..

cathyf

Oh horrors, clarice -- just think -- you don't pay your taxes and you will be doomed to get up early every day, put on hose and heels, and troop into work!

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