That Was Easy

Suddenly Andrew Sullivan discovers that the most transparent Administration in history is stonewalling a release of the archived version of Obama's *original* birth certificate, and now he is a birther too!

Well, an honorary birther anyway, as am I - he doesn't think there is anything there (nor do I), but the question of releasing a record sitting in a state archive seems innocuous enough, and participating in state-sponsored faith based initiatives seems unpleasant enough that Sully is curious.  As am I.

Comments

[Pofarmer]

If he's lost Andrew Sullivan...........

[Dave in OC]

TM,

Don't you think he is just backdooring Trig Trutherism again?

[Greg Ransom]

Next thing you know, this idiot "journalist" will discover that Sarah Palin had a baby named Trig.

Why are journalists the dumbest people in the country?

[Greg Ransom]

Maybe Sully can broker a deal. If Palin will release Trig's long form hospital birth certificate, then Obama will release his own long form hospital birth certificate.

[mantis]

Ok, does anyone know how Obama would go about requesting the release of the original (or, I guess, a copy of the original)? I called the vital records office in Hawaii DOH, and they simply told me they don't do that for anyone. Would he need a subpoena or other court order?

[Greg Ransom]

My kid can't play soccer with a birth certificate. Why is it Obama gets to be President without one?

[mantis]

My kid can't play soccer with a birth certificate.

That's true. They don't bounce well at all.

[matt]

now we know it's a nutroots issue if Sullivan is on board.

[narciso]

Totally OT, KBH is resigning from the Senate, well in October, to pursue a pointless Gubernatorial primary against
Perry, next year, I'm sure no aspersions will be cast, huh.

Sullivan, I have so much contempt for, not just for the obvious reason, but for his
rationalization of abandonment of the Hungarian; I mean Iranian protests, that I don't rightly care what he thinks

[Dave in OC]

All,

Why are you taking that slimeball Sully at face value? Or perhaps since the Bartender in Chief hasn't done anything about gays in the military or same sex marriage perhaps the Trig Truther in Chief really is turning on the him?

[Jane]

I hate to mention this but I added some addition info over at the Send Better Rebuttals thread, particularly about procedure if anyone is interested.

[bad]

the sullied one:

Obama promised total transparency. Where is it? Or will it arrive at the moment when he tackles the deficit, and withdraws from Iraq?

Bet he's hacked about the gay stuff...

[Ralph L]

Jane, I think Clarice linked that site yesterday.

[sylvia]

Okay, I tried to get others with knowledge to post on this, but since no one did, I had to do it myself. This is what I found so far on Connecticut adoptees. I didn't find Hawaii yet, but I bet it is similar.

I think this is the most likely explanation. Obama was adopted by Sotero. He cannot get a copy of his original BC by law. He didn't want to get a hearing on it as that would be unneeded press.

....
Birth certificates.

Under Connecticut law, all persons 18 years of age and older, except adoptees, are permitted to see and receive a copy of their own original birth certificate. CGS section 7-51. Original birth certificates disclose the person's date and place of birth, the name of the person and the person's parents, and other information pursuant to CGS section 7-48 and Department of Public Health requirements.

Adult adoptees, however, except in limited circumstances, may not examine their original birth certificates that contain the identity of their birth parents. CGS section 7-53. When a person is adopted, the Department of Public Health issues a new or amended birth certificate for the adoptee that contains all the information from the original birth certificate except that it names the adopting parents, instead of the birth parents, as parents of the adoptee.

The birth name of the child can also be changed on the amended birth certificate. A change in birth name occurs on the birth certificate only when the Probate Court, pursuant to CGS section 19a-42(d), orders the change in its decree of adoption. Birth names would not change when, for example, a stepfather adopts children of his wife who retain their birth names.

An adult adoptee may examine only the amended or substituted birth certificate. Improperly disclosing the original birth information contained in the records is a criminal offense, punishable by a $500 fine and six months in jail.

Even an adult adoptee who actually knows the identity of his birth parents cannot access the birth certificate without a court hearing. Thus:

Even if the adult adoptee knows the names of his birth parents, the Registrar of Vital Records at the Connecticut Department of Public Health will not give the adult adoptee access to his or her original birth certificate. The adoptee must, instead, petition the Probate Court to open the birth record, pay a $150 court fee, attend a hearing on the request, await a determination on the petition and take the court order opening the birth record to the Registrar of Vital Records who will then allow access to the birth certificate.

[sylvia]

Here's something on Hawaii. DOn't forget though that these laws are ammended all the time, tending recently towards more openess, and have probably been amended recently in HI too, so the law on this site might not have been the law when Obama began his political career. This one would make sense if the dad was say Frank Marshall Davis, someone who might have cared enough to file a confidentiality requirement.

http://www.adoptiontriad.org/lawsbystate/hi.html

Unless the birth parent signs an affidavit requesting confidentiality and it is received by the Family Court within sixty days of the date of the notice, the birth parent will be said to have waived all rights of confidentiality and the records will then be shown to the requesting adoptee.

A birth parent can file a request for confidentiality for ten years, that can then be renewed to cover the birth parent's lifetime. Affidavits of confidentiality expire at the death of the birth parent.

If the original notice sent by the court is undeliverable, the Court will designate an agent to undertake a "diligent" search for the birth parent in order to confidentially provide them with the notice that otherwise would have been provided by mail. The agent has 120 days in which to conduct the search and notify the birth parent of the request. If the birth parent cannot be found, access shall then be given to the adult adoptee.

If one birth parent is found and has given consent but the other birth parent has not been found, the adult adoptee will not be permitted access to identifying information about the non-consenting birth parent.

[Dave (in MA)]

Oh, please.

Mr. Obama has been every bit as cooperative w.r.t. the release of his BC as my junior Senator was about the release of his military records (Which he promised on the late Tim Russert's show 1641 days ago, but who's counting?).

[Old Dad]

The Messiah's embrace of DADT certainly has chafed Andrew's backside.

Sorry about that.

[Ralph L]

Everyone knows how to rub Sullivan the wrong way.

[Stephanie]

Raises eyebrows in shock and eww!

[Uncle BigBad]

Narciso

Let me be the first to cast aspersions. I have conservative friends who will vote for KBH in the primary because they believe if Perry is the candidate, dems will win.

As for the birthers, I'm with Dave. Didn't we all believe Kerry didn't release his DD214 because he had something to hide. Isn't it possible (and sensible) to believe the Won is not releasing his long-form birth certificate for the same reason?

[Jane]

Thanks Ralph, as I said, I'm not really following it.

[matt]

by the way, Joe Biden is having nothing but nonstop secret meetings all day today....

Plus ca change, plus ca meme chose....

Darn that evil Cheney.....

[Ralph L]

Jane, I think you are wise. You're certainly saving a lot of time.

[Thomas Collins]

Matt, maybe Cheney X (acknowledgment to willem for that moniker) is related to Obama, Gates, Malcolm X AND Biden. Cheney's genetic material is spreading secrecy and ill-temper everywhere! Get Andrew Sullivan on the case!

[Porchlight]

I have conservative friends who will vote for KBH in the primary because they believe if Perry is the candidate, dems will win.

Do you know why they think that? Perry didn't seem to have any trouble knocking off Chris Bell (though Kinky and Carole Rylander Keeton McClellan Rylander Strayhorn Keeton did muddy up the waters a little).

[Appalled]

Pofarmer:

If he's lost Andrew Sullivan...........

I think losing Andrew Sullivan is an experience every recent President has had.

[Porchlight]

Heh, Appalled.

[narciso]

Slight OT, is everyone in the McClellan clan, with the possible exception of the FDA commissioner, nuts

[Jim Treacher]

Ok, does anyone know how Obama would go about requesting the release of the original (or, I guess, a copy of the original)? I called the vital records office in Hawaii DOH, and they simply told me they don't do that for anyone. Would he need a subpoena or other court order?

I think if the President of the United States wanted to release his birth certificate, he'd be able to release his birth certificate.

[Appalled]

OT, but perhaps of interest to our proprietor, is the LUN, dealing with the investment bankers trying to lure the PBGC into investing with them.

[PeterUK.]

Dave in OC.
Could you rephrase you first question please?

[megapotamus]

Sullivan's conversion should strike an icy blade into Axelrod's heart. That such an enthusiastic hack could see the simple virtue of a straightforward response and oh-so-sweetly presume there is nothing damaging to see is the first gentle rumbling of the avalanche. Palin went through it, Bush went through it with the TANG crapola. Feet, meet fire. Release the document.

[Sue]

KBH will not get my vote. She has been voting conservative lately with the run in mind, but I have a long memory.

[mantis]

I think if the President of the United States wanted to release his birth certificate, he'd be able to release his birth certificate.

Maybe so, but I think there are laws and procedures which govern the handling of these documents, and the Hawaii DOH would rather follow those. My question is does anyone know how someone would get the state to release such a document, assuming that person is not the president?

[Sue]

It's more likely a democrat will take KBH's seat.

[bad]

Me too, Sue. Remember her Palin bashing, as well.

[Captain Hate]

Why are you taking that slimeball Sully at face value?

I'm not taking anything that mincemeat says seriously. That doesn't mean that I won't laugh if the jug-eared douche gets vexed by Andi, just like I'd find amusement if Michael Vick got attacked by a pack of dogs.

[Sue]

My question is does anyone know how someone would get the state to release such a document, assuming that person is not the president?

In a case where the file has been sealed, you file a motion and the court either grants or denies your motion to open the file. I would imagine the same would apply to the BC. But, and you know how I like to jump out on a limb, I bet if you insist on having a vault copy, you could get it.

[Danube of Thought]

My recollection, without checking, is that it wasn't that Kerry wouldn't release his DD214 (a one-page certificate of separation), but that he wouldn't execute a Form 180, authorizing the release of all of his records.

I'm also pretty sure that he eventually did sign a 180, but he excluded certain categories of records and limited the release to so as to make the documents available only tocertain members of the press.

[PeterUK.]

"

I think if the President of the United States wanted to release his birth certificate, he'd be able to release his birth certificate.

Maybe so, but I think there are laws and procedures which govern the handling of these documents, and the Hawaii DOH would rather follow those. My question is does anyone know how someone would get the state to release such a document, assuming that person is not the president?"

It doesn't matter because Obama is the president.

[Dave in OC]

PUK,

If you are referring to my first post I thought it was pretty likely Sully is doing an end around (American Football term) and really sarcastically yelling for Sarah to "prove" Trig is hers and not her daughter Bristol's son. I'm certain you are familiar with "Milky Loads" work for the last year...

[Danube of Thought]

If this Obama/Hawaii thing grows stale, we could always resurrect Hillary's consitutional ineligibility to become Secretary of State under Article I, Section 6: "No Senator or Representative shall, during the Time for which he was elected, be appointed to any civil office ... the Emoluments whereof shall have been encreased during such time."

[Captain Hate]

Why yes he did, DoT; and it was covered right here. LUN

[narciso]

That's why it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, why really risk that eventuality. On the positive side she did vote against Turbo Tim, which Cornyn didn't, OTOH, she
has been attacking Perry for not taking the stimulus funds, and yes, bad, there's that too.

[Dave in OC]

DOT,

Unfortunately the US has become a banana republic where we don't follow the constitution whereas when they do so in Honduras we go crazy!

[Veeshir]

Maybe Sully can broker a deal. If Palin will release Trig's long form hospital birth certificate, then Obama will release his own long form hospital birth certificate.

Comment of the thread.

And the thing that puts the "er" in funnier?

It could happen.

[William Teach]

Oh, Dear God, Sullivan agrees with me? I formally renounce any care of this issue!!!! :)

[PeterUK.]

Dave,
Never mind,"We are separated by a common language". It wouldn't be funny on repetition.

[verner]

Now that he's open to suggestion, maybe we can send Andrew Cashill's research on "Dreams of My Father."

[Dave in OC]

PUK,

Duh, my bad...I was of course referring to this:

NSFW! NSFW! Very disgusting!

http://web.archive.org/web/20010606105110/milkyloads.tripod.com/bareback/index.html

(I was mostly very proud of my new found ability to do links...)

[Dave in OC]

Drat, that didn't work right. Drat...

[mantis is good when searching for truth; his biases are deep ditches at the sides of his roadway, though.]

Pride cometh before the Typepad Goddess.

[Captain Hate]

Dear God in heaven, Dave in OC (is that Ocean City Maryland perchance?); between that and naked pictures of Ann Dunham I think this site can cause impotence.

[PeterUK.]

Verner
"Hell hath no fury like a journo scorned".

[PeterUK.]

Dave,
I thought you would cotton on. Forgive my nasty mind.

[Dave in OC]

Heh, I warned you Captain! That's a leftover from a flame war that Patterico had with Sully a while back. Very disgusting!

The weird part is that Pat was right, Sully supposedly counseled "safe sex" in public then created this anonymous link to him for bareback riders. And no, I didn't know what that meant at the time either without Pat's explanation.

Now I gotta go back and figure out how to do links properly...

[Ditto DoT.]

See how fickle, or downright bedlammed, she is? Apparently your link works for some.

[Dave in OC]

Captain,

No it's the "Orange Curtain" Orange County, CA.

[PeterUK.]

The ObamaGates Affair has crossed the Atlantic. "One small foot in mouth for Obama,one giant leap for mankind".

[OxyCon]

That Sarah Barracuda is one smart cookie. She knew that the moment she resigned, Andrew Sullivan would find a new target for his conspiracy theories.

[Neo]

Maybe we can get a 3-way release, Trig long form, Obama's long form and John Kerry's SF-180

[Neo]

The Atlantic has a "Birther" problem.

Isn't that "Excitable Andy really just wants The Atlantic to fire his ass.

[bad]

I wonder if this is a possibility: LUN

Looking at the house he rents from Harvard (Google Maps Street View here), it might be wise to remind Professor Gates that to the extent enjoys a below-market rent (a nice perq, that), the difference between the rent he pays and what he would otherwise pay in an arms-length market rate lease could be construed as taxable compensation, if I am not mistaken. The house on Ware Street in Cambridge near Harvard Square would have a fair market value of well over $1 million, perhaps over $2 million, and a commensurate rent rate would be at least $7,500 per month.

That would bite...

[Dave in OC]

I really don't pay any attention to him any more but I believe:
1) He is experiencing dementia from his Aids
2) He is likely to be departing the US soon as he can't get a green card renewed any longer, somehow related to Aids also
3) He is starting to blame the Bartender in Chief for this

[willem]

"Everyone knows how to rub Sullivan the wrong way."

Really? From this safe distance he strikes me as one of those "there is no wrong way" kinda guys.

[Ralph L]

Dave, I keep the HTML tutorial link in my favorites: Linking

The trick is remembering the second " after you paste in the URL.
If you're lazy or typo-prone, you can paste the URL in the blank box under your email address in "Your Information" and say "LUN".

[Dave in OC]

Thanks, Ralph L I will try it if I ever have anything worth linking again... although the LUN seems like cheating!

[Annoying Old Guy]

mantis;

My question is does anyone know how someone would get the state to release such a document

Order 50 copies and hand them out at the White House press conference. Based on everything I have read, there is nothing stopping Obama himself from ordering as many copies of the long form as he likes. Even if he's adopted, he should be able to get the amended long form.

[Neo]

Why does all of this remind me of the Steve Martin schtick on taking hostages.

First take some hostages.
Then make 3 demands ..
1) $1,000,000.00
2) a get-a-way car
3) the letter "M" stricken from the English language
... you always have to make at least one ridiculous demand so you can claim insanity later
... get-a-way car .. ha-ha-ha

[GMax]

I actually think that right now, a Democrat could not get elected dog catcher in Texas. So unless someone names a Democrat that will make me reconsider, I think that is my vote. Tom Scheifer is going to run as a Democrat for Governor, he has zero elected office experience and as our Democrat friends endlessly told us, running the Texas Rangers is nothing to brag about ( of course that was when it was on Bush's resume but paybacks are a bitch ). Tom seems like a nice enough guy but tired and worn out. He is not going to get elected even if some third party comes along.

Pete Sessions, Greg Abbot or Jeb Hensalring all would be great Senate candidates. Lets see if any of them announce.

[PeterUK.]

Neo,
Or you can get yourself elected president and get away with murder.

[MayBee]

Andrew has demanded Sarah release Trig's birth certificate. He also apparently recently wrote to one of Ace's sub-bloggers "He is not her son" re:Trig and Sarah.
If he truly believes that, I think someone in the Obama camp is feeding him that line.
Perhaps this is a way to try to get Sarah to release Trig's birth certificate. Perhaps he realizes he would be a complete hypocrite if he didn't call for Obama to do this.

[Extraneus]

The Won has a logo monogrammed basketball?

[barf]

From PUK's link.

[PeterUK.]

Not much difference is there,the birth certificate of the son of a so far relatively minor politician and the birth certificate of the president of the world's only superpower?

If Sullivan thinks this is equivalence,then he is mad.

[PeterUK.]

Sully has been upset ever since he booked a holiday in the Outer Hebrides and found it was some islands off Scotland.

[Ralph L]

Sully was searching for the Mull of Kintyre.
LUN

[boris]

Do they wear white kilts there?

[Ralph L]

No, boris, there are no virgins there.

[Demon Rum would be racist, or antisemitic or... I got it, Anti-Pirate.]

So what's a Hebrew? A manly drink?

[RJP]

Please, what does 'LUN' mean?
Thanks.

[Captain Hate]

Link Under Name; you'll notice that a poster's name is is clickable if done correctly and will take you to referenced site or document.

[Dave in OC]

RJP,

It means "link under my name" meaning right click on the person's name and you will get their link. Try it

[Dave in OC]

Sorry Captain, I guess we cross posted...

[narciso]

Link under Name

[Dave in OC]

Heh, Ralph L!

[RJP]

Dave, narciso: Got it! Thanks.

[Let's mull it over.]

That's it! Mulled Wine.

[I know, he used to be worth talking to, but that was before I was.]

Oh, sully has more, see memeo @ gauche. Someone tell me what it says; I'm keeping my virginity, never having sullied myself with the artist, yet.

[Extraneus]

What was it that 0bama quoted from Sullivan's site that turned out to be wrong? I wonder if he got some... guff over that.

[Original MikeS]

Andrew Sullivan is right. It is not crazy to want to see a certified copy of Obama's long form birth certificate. Though it is a little crazy to spend a million dollars in legal fees to prevent that from happening.

In addition to the BC, when a man is hired or elected based on his intelligence and his academic record it does seem appropriate to make documents like college transcripts and SAT scores available to the electorate. Some recent Presidents and candidates have had the grace to provide such.

PUK nailed it when he pointed out that, not only is Borak a mysterious guy, he is a mysterious guy by choice. A little transparency on these issue would be both easier and cheaper for Obama, which adds to the mystery.

[narciso]

It was that claim that the Brits didn't torture German POWs, it turned out not to
be true, although it seemed to continue into the Attlee administration.

[Karenoid]

The following links are a MUST READ for anyone who suspects that there is something strange going on regarding Obama's birth story. The articles are long but should be read in their entirety.

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2008/10/how-could-stanl.html

http://lamecherry.blogspot.com/2009/05/ghost-of-stanley-ann-duham-obama.html

[Boatbuilder]

I have a confession to make.

In recent days I have come to the horrifying conclusion that I, too, am a birther.

It is curious, because until a few days ago I really, really didn't care about the matter. I was fairly certain that: a) If there were any real question about Obama's qualification to be president, it would have been addressed by the "authorities" who govern our elections a long time ago; b)Obama was duly elected by a significant majority of voters, and to attempt to invalidate the will of those who voted for him after the fact would be, if not "unconstitutional," simply wrong at some fundamental level; c) politically, from the perspective of the right, it would be a major loser; and d) most importantly, a post-election attack on Obama's legitimacy, based solely on his status at birth, could ratchet up the political and cultural war to a level which could destroy the country.

I also thought, and still think, that the alleged prominence of "birther" sentiments and demands among the Republican base is a creation of Obama and his handlers--intended to tar anyone who brings up the issue as a racist--and thus end discussion. Hence it's sudden discovery as an issue of alleged prominence just as the impact of the Gates fiasco becomes evident to the Democrat's pollsters.

And yet--

When I am told that a unanimous "nonbinding resolution" of the House of Representatives means that the issue is resolved as a matter of fact--

When people like Taranto and Hinderaker, (who under ordinary circumstances ridicule those who accept "consensus" as binding rather than ask pertinent questions) dismiss those who raise the questions as "idiots" while at the same time conceding that the questions haven't been answered--

When the Annenberg "Factcheck" people assure us that they've looked at the pertinent document and there's nothing to see, but they won't actually show anyone the document except at wierd camera angles--

When the Hawaii authorities assure us that they have the actual document and they've looked at it and they can assure us that there's nothing to see, but we cant see it--

When otherwise skeptical people assure us that there may be Hawaii laws that prevent THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES from getting a copy of his own birth certificate--

I say "what the hell is going on."

That apparently makes me unfit for polite company. So be it.

[Pretty in Pink.]

'duham' in Karenoid's link is correct.

[Extraneus]

You should be ok here, Boatbuilder. (Otherwise I'm not, either.)

[Born in Hawai'i to his Grandmother? It's gonna get so he'll need to give Gates a sample of his blood for DNA testing]

For a lovely irony, check lame cherry's recent sundae with a bing on top for the suggestion that Madalyn Dunham was Obama's mother, rather than Stanley Ann.

[narciso]

Also OT, another one of those Iranian
'diplomats' captured in Iraq have been released again. This can't possibly go wrong.

[Boatbuilder]

Thanks, Ex. The folks here are great company, but if they were too polite I wouldn't hang around.

[MayBee]

Boatbuilder-
First of all, I agree with you that the flare-up over this is a creation of Obama and his handlers. It has the exact same "look over there! The Republicans fight each other all the time!" quality that the Axelrod-induced "Rush is the leader of the Republican Party" non-issue did. The seed gets planted and all the clean toga people have to spend their days denouncing.

Second, I am not a birther but I see no reason those who are should apologize. I don't know one single Democrat who is ashamed to admit they think Dan Rather had an accurate story. Walter Cronkite was never taken to the woodshed because he said he thought Karl Rove was behind 9/11. And I've never even met a Democrat who is all that keen on defending Sarah Palin from Trig-trutherism, even though they don't really believe the story, she isn't worth their ire.

[PeterUK.]

"I also thought, and still think, that the alleged prominence of "birther" sentiments and demands among the Republican base is a creation of Obama and his handlers--intended to tar anyone who brings up the issue as a racist--and thus end discussion."

Frankly,it would be an insane,if not improbable,tactic. Myths are uncontrollable,unless you are willing to live with the myth made flesh,simply do not go there. History is replete with myths.Poor Marie Antoinette never said "Well let them eat cake", but that, and the fact she was Austrian helped to put her head in a basket.
As Obama does more things which make him unpopular,so will the foreigner meme attach itself to him like the mark of Cain.
People will look at him with a different eye.Ever catch yourself,irrationally perhaps,looking at someone you know about whom you have heard something odd? Go on,I bet you have.
It is a mistake to play with human nature.