The Army Would Rather Switch Than Fight?

Yesterday we noted the odd case of Major Stefan Cook, an Army reservist ordered to Afghanistan.  He had brought suit claiming his orders were unlawful because Obama did not meet the Constitutional requirement for the Presidency, namely, being a natural-born citizen.

Today, the always interesting World Net Daily breathlessly describes an odd development:

A U.S. Army Reserve major from Florida scheduled to report for deployment to Afghanistan within days has had his military orders revoked after arguing he should not be required to serve under a president who has not proven his eligibility for office.

His attorney, Orly Taitz, confirmed to WND the military has rescinded his impending deployment orders.

"We won! We won before we even arrived," she said with excitement. "It means that the military has nothing to show for Obama. It means that the military has directly responded by saying Obama is illegitimate – and they cannot fight it. Therefore, they are revoking the order!"

The Confederate Yankee has an idea:

I have no ready explanation for why the military would rescind his deployment orders, unless they plan to keep him stateside to begin a disciplinary investigation against him. Frankly, for the sake of our nation, I hope this is the case.

Because if the Pentagon allows soldiers to simply declare Obama an an illegitimate Command in Chief—as the article would have you believe—it would seem to set a precedent that would lead to chaos in the military, allowing service members to question all orders for the executive branch. It would be anarchy.

Maybe.  The Ledger-Enquirer of Georgia has a more prosaic yet puzzling take:

U.S. Army Maj. Stefan Frederick Cook, the reserve soldier who says he shouldn't have to go to Afghanistan because he believes Barack Obama was never eligible to be president, has had his deployment orders revoked, Army officials said.

Lt. Col. Maria Quon, U.S. Army Public Affairs Officer, U.S. Army Human Resources Command-St. Louis, said Tuesday evening, Cook was no longer expected to report Wednesday to MacDill Air Force Base in Florida for mobilization to active duty.

...

Earlier today, Quon said Cook submitted a formal written request to Human Resources Command-St. Louis on May 8, 2009 volunteering to serve one year in Afghanistan with Special Operations Command, U.S. Army Central Command, beginning July 15, 2009. The soldier's orders were issued on June 9, Quon said.

"A reserve soldier who volunteers for an active duty tour may ask for a revocation of orders up until the day he is scheduled to report for active duty," Quon said.

She added that there is an administrative process to request revocation of orders. As of this afternoon, Cook had not asked for his orders to be revoked, Quon said. She could not say why the soldier's orders were pulled today by 3 p.m. CDT.

"Because of the Privacy Act I couldn't go into it," Quon said.

Hmm - Cook apparently did not follow the standard procedure for un-volunteering, but it looks as if someone figured a lawsuit was a reasonable substitute for a formal request to have one's orders revoked.

MORE:  Apparently Keith Olbermann trumpeted the emerging lefty screaming point that Cook is a coward for refusing to go to Afghanistan.  The obvious alternative - that he has deliberately created this situation in order to embarrass Obama - seems to have eluded them.  [Greyhawk at Mudville Gazette essentially pins down this angle.]

AS TO THE BIRTHER CONSPIRACIES:  I have no idea what the current state of play with the birther conspiracies might be (and I am not sure I want to find out), but the I will reiterate the one idea I might be able to pass off as original - Obama's mother and maternal grandparents would not have been cooking the paperwork on Obama's citizenship status in 1961 in order to preserve his Presidential viability in 2008; they would have been doing so in order to enhance their own chances in a custody scuffle with the Kenyan father.  In the event of a nasty split, how might the white Ms. Dunham have expected to fare battling a Kenyan family in a Kenyan court for her right to raise a black Kenyan baby back in America?  Would she have better chances if the baby were a US citizen?

Obviously, I don't know what actually happened.  But it is screamingly obvious to me (but not Dave Weigel!) that the family had immediate and practical incentives to take the necessary steps to nail down Baby Barack's citizenship in 1961, truthfully or otherwise.

To which I should add - regular commenter Thomas Collins opines that, since the Congress accepted the results of the Electoral College, any Constitutional impediment has been waived.  Hmm, but what about in 2012?

And Cecil Turner sets us to thinking:

That said, I can't imagine what could possibly be on the birth certificate that would be germane to the case. If he was in fact born in Hawaii (as seems nearly certain), then AFAICT he's a natural-born citizen. The reluctance to produce the document seems very odd, but irrelevant to that case. If I were forced to speculate, I'd guess there's something else embarassing there (e.g., father "unknown").

Hmm - if the Dunhams were plotting to strengthen their own custody claim and diminish that of Barack Sr., asking the registrar to record "father unknown" might be a logical step.  Years later it would look bad, following the success of Dreams From My Father, but we are all being exhorted to Move On.

MODEST PROGRESS:  In his comments section Dave Weigel implicitly accedes to the notion that the Dunhams had a powerful motive to fudge Obama's citizenship back in 1961 and tries to change both the subject and the burden of proof.  My follow-up comment is being blocked there, at least for now.  [Now I am getting through.}

[end of thread]

Comments

[Neo]

More of those "events" ...

BERLIN (Reuters) - Germany's BND foreign intelligence agency believes Iran is capable of producing and testing an atomic bomb within six months, much sooner than most analysts estimate, according to a report in German weekly Stern.

[Frau Argwohn]

It makes sense about the custody, but the family found out soon enough that Stanley Ann had married a man who was already married. That made the American marriage illegal, didn't it, thereby giving the mother custody?
Later, there seems to have been an attempt by the mother and her family to present Barry as a foreigner in order to get scholarships.

[saveliberty]

Lolo Soetero adopted Barack Obama. His name would be on the birth certificate, as is the routine procedure for children who have been adopted.

[Parking Lot]

0's bc certificate controversy reminds me of Ann Coulter's last column ... everyone thinks SP is done but they can't stop talking about her. I find it amusing that in birther debate threads the people who think it's a non issue seem to post more than anyone else on the subject. :)

[Tim]

The constitution is THE document the governed have approved the rules that allow them to be governed. IF one of the governed sees that the rules have not been followed and it directly affects him, why should he not be allowed to sue?

I agree that this is not a good issue to pursue from a political standpoint. It does look like sour grapes. On the other hand, if it was not a real issue then Obama could have (and should have) been able to address it when it first came up. It is the cover up that keeps the issue alive, not the issue itself.

[Jack is Back!]

There are a lot of ex-military and current serving military that are big time "birthers". I know several and receive a lot of emails to the efficacy of his natural USA birth. My biggest concern about BHO is how he traveled to Pakistan. Did he use a US passport or an Indonesian one? Did he declare himself a citizen of Indonesia as a result of his earlier tenure there and his step-father? Why can't that question be answered?

[The details]

It's good that this issue is getting some kind of attention, but the aspect of it that I've been covering for months is a very clear example of stupidity and duplicity.

What I cover is the fact that - despite what you might have heard - BHO has never provided definitive proof of where he was born. There are huge holes in all the evidence so far provided, and various sources keep lying about that evidence. For instance, HI never verified he was born there, they only said he has a valid cert on file. They did not verify anything on it or verify that what's on his site matches what they have on file.

That hasn't stopped a series of MSM and sub-MSM reporters from lying about this issue. While I've frequently confronted them with their lies, they ignore that because I'm not getting much help with this. If I did, it would be possible to discredit several of those sources. That would be very helpful, but the problem is finding anyone else willing to help out.

My coverage of this is at my name's link. If you want to do something, help confront those listed after the summary with their lies.

[Parking Lot]

((For instance, HI never verified he was born there, they only said he has a valid cert on file.))

Fukino's statement was very carefully worded wasn't it?

((“Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.))

[Thomas Collins]

Tim, let's address your question in the specific context of this situation, namely, military members being able to challenge orders on the grounds that the POTUS doesn't have Commander in Chief authority. First of all, an aggrieved person can sue in the sense that he or she can file a complaint. However, that begs the question as to whether the matter is properly within the province of a federal court to decide. In this situation, courts enjoining troop deployment would undercut the United State's position in the world as a sovereign power able to carry on relations with other nations including if necessary military action. Not every grievance has a remedy that a court may impose.

Your remedy is to petition the House of Representatives to impeach Obama on the ground that he doesn't meet the constitutional requirements as President. If Obama is impeached, and the Senate convicts, Obama will no longer be President. Until that happens, Obama is the duly acting POTUS.

The Constitution does not establish a lawsuit playground (although I must acknowledge that all too many of our citizens view it in that manner), it establishes first and foremost a sovereign body politic. The federal courts intervening in matters such as this would seriously undercut our body politic. Do you want our country to be dealing with the Russians, Chinese, Iranians and North Koreans under the circumstance that their leaders see the POTUS's Commander in Chief power being undercut by federal district judges?

[PeterUK]

Nothing to do with the presidency or custody.1961 all about a mixed raced illegitimate child born to a young middle class white girl.

"Another fine mess you got us into Stanley".

[Thomas Jackson]

Just as Kerry could have ended any discussion of his claims had he rleased h8s records, so can Obama. The fact that Kerry has not does nothing to strengthen or prove his case. As for the Congress accepting his claims are we supposed to accept this without laughing out loud.

This is as lame as it gets.

[Gabriel Sutherland]

I not up to speed on the Pakistan trip. Can anyone brief me?

When was this trip to Pakistan?

[bad]

There is nothing on that birth certificate that should be a problem for the president. All of the people who contributed to what is on the bc are the ones resposible for its contents. They're all dead and will feel no shame.

We already know Ibama is not into family loyalty, so he's obviously not protecting them.

The only reason for embarressment is if he, as an adult, misrepresented its contents.

[Pofarmer]

Early 90's on the Pakistan trip?

[K]

The Major's case has nothing to do with O's birth. O is President. That matters.

Feelings or suspicions that he should not be President or that he became President by deceit do not matter here.

Frankly it begins to look like the Major is a very confused person. Or has been used.

The attorney chirping "we won" clearly has no clue. No one has "won."

The guy is a reservist. He didn't have to go and knew it. But instead of just notifying the Army he chose to file a lawsuit about Obama's birth certificate.

What an utterly disgusting tactic no matter what you might think about O or where he was born.

[willem]

There should be no dispute that Obama is POTUS nor any dispute that Hawaiian birth indeed makes Obama a US citizen.

But mere citizenship is not the test, POTUS eligibility was expressly limited to those who were a Natural Born Citizen.

Cecil like many others seems to have not read Vattel, as follows:

"The natives, or natural born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. … I say, that, in order to be of the country, it is necessary that a person be born of a father who is a citizen; for, if he is born there of a foreigner, it will be only the place of his birth, and not his country. (Vattel, Law of Nations, Book 1, Chapter 19)

Per Leo Donofrio's research on the topic:

In 1874, in the Minor v. Happersett case, the Supreme Court affirmed the definition of natural born citizen which had appeared in the 1797 English translation of Vattel’s Law of Nations:

"…it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first." (Minor v. Happersett, 1874)

In Minor v. Happersett, the Supreme Court expressed “doubts” regarding the citizenship of U.S.-born children whose parents were not U.S. citizens. In Wong Kim Ark, 1898, the Supreme Court examined these “doubts”, but did not render any decision or ruling pertaining to natural born citizenship. The Court ruled that Mr. Ark was a citizen; it did not rule that he was a natural born citizen. To date, the Supreme Court has never answered the question as to whether natural born citizenship extends to children of non-citizen parents.

I don't know how we get past the seminal issue of Obama being a British Citizen at birth and therefore not a natural born citizen as the term was known and used at the time of our nation's founding. There is little doubt our founders intended to enforce a generational interval to guarantee POTUS full enculturation as an American Citizen; no doubt our founders feared foreign plants, political mischief and sabotage by foreign interests.

Perhaps we should leave the NBC issue alone until the next election cycle, but we should not trivialize what appears to have happened here nor should we pretend our nations' founders were fools and there is nothing here to be concerned about.

They were so specific in this requirement.

How imprudent we not think carefully about this.

[Extraneus]

As disgusting as filing 15 spurious ethics complaints?

How about this? As disgusting as this?

...posted on Daily Kos on Sept. 12, 2008 by Paul Lewis Hackett III, a trial lawyer and U.S. Marine Corps veteran of Iraq, who ran in 2005 for a vacant seat in the House from Ohio's second congressional district, losing narrowly in a district President Bush had carried easily just a year earlier.
Fretting that the Obama campaign was going to lose Ohio to McCain, Hackett proposed his own solution: A series of savage attacks on the GOP ticket focusing on Sarah Palin and her family. Here is what he wrote:

The message (would be) simple and the professionals can refine it but essentially it should contain these elements: Sarah Palin? Can't keep her solemn oath of devotion to her husband and had sex with his employee. Sarah Palin? Accidentally got pregnant at age 43 and the tax payers of Alaska have to pay for the care of her disabled child. Sarah Palin? Unable to teach her 16 year old daughter right from wrong and now another teenager is pregnant. Sarah Palin? Can you trust Sarah Palin and her values with America's future?

Is the Major's lawsuit as disgusting as that?

There's plenty more at baseballcrank.com, but I think the Major would have to go a bit further to get on par with disgusting tactics.

[Danube of Thought]

A similar thing happened with my former brother-in-law, a navy fighter pilot during the Vietnam war. Ordered to carrier-based squadron in the Tonkin Culf, he went on 60 Minutes to declare that he would not go unless LBJ promised that we were trying to win. The navy cancelled his orders and sent him instead to ferry squadron in Atsugi, Japan, saying there was no way they would put such a man into a group of combat pilots.I very much doubt that the army would let this guy be a cancer on an operrational combat unit.

Aloha (really hard to post from Kuki'o beach using an I-phone)

[fdcol63]

Obama's Pakistan trip was in the early '80's.

[bad]

Aloha, DoT

I'm so sorry for your difficulties....

[maryrose]

When you are in a combat you want as my brother the Vietnam vet tells it someone next to you who is gung-ho. My brother's eyesight made him ineligible for the front lines so he was transferred to Communications. Resolve the birth issue-if he got college scholarships under false pretenses then expose it.It seems to be his modus operandi anyway.

[Thomas Collins]

Thomas Jackson, the fact that folks may laugh out loud at Congressional action or inaction is not under our constitutional system of separation of powers particularly relevant to whether federal courts should hear cases such as that brought by this reservist. However, if you really want a good laugh (which may soon turn to a frown), imagine the federal courts using cases such as this to micromanage the Commander-in-Chief power of the POTUS. It will be Val Putin, Khamenei, Kim Jong-il et al who will be the folks having the last laugh!

[Thomas Collins]

Turning to the political impact of the reservist's escapades, if this has any political impact, it will likely be to take time and attention away from assembling a non-RINO GOP/Blue Dog Dem coalition in Congress to squelch Obama's socialized medicine and Cap and Trade schemes. Hopefully Birthgate won't become so prominent that Dems can use it to marginalize opposition to Obama.

[Ranger]

Well, just another effort at removing negative publicity.

BTW, things must be looking bad in the polling, Politico is trying to http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0709/24944.html>rehabilitate Carter's Malaise speach. I guess they realize already Obama's going to have to give one of these soon.

[Dave (in MA)]

Interesting that he picked up the correct pronunciation after only one visit to Pockistahn, but after a quarter century in the Windy City he says "Cominskey Field".

[Italiacto!]

[Dave (in MA)]

Oh, crap I left the italics on.

[fdcol63]

Cominskey Field

Clearly, Obama subliminally contracted the words Communist and Alinsky.

[fdcol63]

Close

[Chris]

Did Hackett really propose that? Is there a link? Thanks. I seem to remember Hackett made Chrissie's leg tingle back in the day as well.

[The facts]

Lots of people clearly don't understand basic concepts like leverage or how to do things in the right way.

Almost every time I posted *the facts* of this matter, I get three kinds of responses: BHO cultists lying or just smearing, those who claim for a fact that BHO was born in Kenya, and the N.B.C. brigade saying that the HI issue is just a red herring. All three are undermining attempts to get the truth about this matter.

Let me try to explain this slowly: the aspect of the issue that I'm pushing can be used to get the full truth about this matter by having others do the work. If everyone would just concentrate on the aspect that I cover, that would convince MSM reporters fearful for their credibility to do actual research into N.B.C. and related topics. It would also undermine the MSM. In order to do that you have to simply concentrate on the facts and not speculation or obscure legal theories.

The facts that I discuss are cut-and-dried: the MSM is lying about what HI said. Simply concentrate on that and the rest will fall into place.

[smrstrauss]

It would be interesting to find out on what date Major Cook received notice that he was no longer being asked to serve in Afghanistan and whether it was by telephone or a letter sent by snail mail, or whatever.

The date of the filing of the suit by Cook was July 9 (I have it at the 9th, though some say the 8th), which was last Thursday (or it could be Wednesday), and the earliest stories saying that he was no longer being asked to go were last night.

That is six days or seven, but two of them were weekend days. It is unlikely that the Army could have decided to make a change from “go to Afghanistan” to “don’t go to Afghanistan” in only four or five days. It just doesn’t work that fast.

And besides, Cook volunteered to go to Afghanistan in the first place. He volunteered for Afghanistan on May 8, meaning that he volunteered to serve in Afghanistan while Obama was president. http://www.newspapersites.net/newspaper/columbus-ledger-enquirer-1.asp

[PeterUK]

"What an utterly disgusting tactic no matter what you might think about O or where he was born."

So true,so Democrat.The sort of thing that could could come out of the mind of a Rahm or an Axelgrease.

[Extraneus]

I read the story at Baseball Crank, Chris, but I think his link to the original story is messed up. It's from a Carl Cannon story. Here's a link.

[Dave (in MA)]

damm</i>t
damm</i>t
damm</i>t

[Dave Weigel]

The problem with Tom's theory is that none of the many, many biographers of Barack Obama have found any record of his parents taking an expensive and dangerous trip out of Hawai'i in the final months of Ann Dunham's pregnancy. Seriously -- how and why would a pregnant 18-year old college student, in 1961, make a 10,748 mile journey to Africa? It's not like Barack Obama Sr. could have paid for it. Remember, he only got to America in the first place via that Kenya-to-America airlift that Obama mistakenly credited to John F. Kennedy.

The story stops there for me. There's no reason to believe that Dunham went to Africa in 1961. Racism, I guess, but no -good- reason.

[Chris]

Posted by: Extraneus | July 15, 2009 at 04:42 PM

Thanks.

[PeterUK]

"The story stops there for me. There's no reason to believe that Dunham went to Africa in 1961. Racism, I guess, but no -good- reason."

It isn't about where he was born Dave,it's about why he is covering up.
Now, either Obama has something to cover up or he is so devious that he has to weave tangled webs. Why spend a fortune on lawyers to prevent innocent information being made public?

[Q]

This is a very important issue, and I applaud you for covering it! After you're done exploring birther theories, Tom, I implore you to get to the bottom of Trig's unusual birth. But, then, you're only credulous when it comes to crazy conspiracy theories that involve liberals.

[PeterUK]

"The problem with Tom's theory is that none of the many, many biographers of Barack Obama"

Many, many? On was Obama himself.

[PeterUK]

Thank you Q for turning up and confirming the depravity of Democrats.

There really must be something to hide.

[Dave Weigel]

Why spend a fortune on lawyers to prevent innocent information being made public?

That's a total myth - the lawyer representing Obama in California, for example, is working pro bono. It doesn't take a lot of effort or mental energy to knock an Orly Taitz lawsuit out of court.

[PeterUK]

Sorry Dave you are wrong. There have been "many,many" legal challenges.
BTW your slip is showing.

[You've been hoaxed about the climate and about Obama. Just so you know.]

K, that is an ignorant comment. If this was the only way to get standing, then even if what that officer did was done deliberately to get into court, then he did the honourable thing. We are looking into the lawfullness of orders, here.

Taitz only illustrates the point I made in the last thread. Many people jumped to the conclusion that the orders were changed to remove standing. Well they probably weren't, but what if they were? Who has standing to stand up to this insubordination on the part of our President.

And forget about lesser judges. This belongs to the Supremes, and is within their purview.

The trip to Pakistan was 1981, I believe. And I too, think he made the trip on an Indonesian passport. The Paki bureaucracy knows, and so does the Indonesian one. I think the raid on the passport agency was to find out if our bureaucracy knows. Wanta bet someone in the intelligence bureaucracy knows, even if the passport people don't?

[He's a liar. Confront him.]

Yeah, Thomas Jackson, Show the Birth Certificate is very like Sign the 180. And look at the differential response. There is a sucker born every minute, some of them conservatives.

[Sure, flights to Kenya are far-fetched, and there is that notice in the paper. So what is it, Obama? You tell me, and the sooner the better for all involved.]

'The Facts' is right, but I disagree that a one tactic war is adequate. He has a great point, though, which should be repeated ad lib.

Willem is right, too. His dual citizenship at birth is disqualifying by a close read of the Constitution and precedential rulings.

Q, why what a silly ass. Racism? Tu quoque.

[royf]

Make the axleturf worms come out when the talk turns to Obama's extraordinary efforts to conceal his past.

[PeterUK]

"The trip to Pakistan was 1981, I believe. And I too, think he made the trip on an Indonesian passport. The Paki bureaucracy knows, and so does the Indonesian one."

Forget the bureaucracy,what about the intelligence agencies?
Does the Indonesian Intelligence service know more about Obama than the American people.

[PeterUK]

royf,
Does indeed,the maggots start wriggling out of the biscuit.Makes one wonder why.

[Pointed disinformation reveals fear and loathing. You see, yet?]

Dave Weigel, you are a poor fool or a deliberate disinformationist, one or the other; Obama has spent over a million dollars squashing numerous suits. I believe the Department of Justice is now spending everyone's money paying lawyers to represent Obama in some of these cases now, and probably rightfully, but still, on some level we are supposed to resent our money being spent to defy us, or we should, and if we do resent it, we are supposed to be able to seek recourse. Well, I resent it. Where's my recourse?

[I Won]

I am not sure where I was born, as I was quite young at the time. I know I have Kansas values, if that helps.

[Elliott]

Cominskey Field

On the bright side, he didn't say Comintern.

[Pagar]

Does the Indonesian Intelligence service know more about Obama than the American people.

My guess is every intelligence service in the world knows more about Obama than the American people. They would have to be pretty incompetent, not to know more than the American people know.

[K]

Extraneus:
Yes, the harassment of Palin was disgusting too. And it continues. It is also not the topic.

It doesn't matter if more disgusting things were done sometime and somewhere. Trying to argue by that method is old and useless.

Disgusting things were done in every century of recorded history. To insist they be reviewed and denounced is a variation of the "fools errand."

Confusion is exactly what too many prefer; they want loud noise, nonsensical distractions, and hate to drown any opposing view. They feel that nothing mildly neutral about an opponent can stem from anything but Evil.

OTOH, this is a good site. With comments from many who see that gnawing at the birth issue is counter-productive when you lack teeth. Ditto for filing suits w/o merit.

The courts will not examine the matter based upon this filing by a reserve Major.

Opposing before possessing the evidence is a very high risk. It can bring disaster. What if Obama should convincingly show he is a natural born citizen?

The GOP, conservatives, right (whichever appellation seems best) have good arguments and ways to oppose O. The Major's case is not one of them.

[Elliott]

Sorry, RalphL. I hadn't seen your comment on the other thread.

[Show me, Oh Great Pretender.]

Aw, heck, Dave's the one with the projected racism; Q is just a Sullivan groupie. Try harder guys, this is pitiful.

The resolution of this is when Obama can't appear in public without chants of 'Show the BC'. Kerry hid from reporters during a very critical period over the Swifties. The more Obama stonewalls, the more he's going to get odd looks from Congressional Dems, who may want to cover small portions of their own asses. The globe is cooling, folks, and we've a President Who Never Was. Wait'll it's OK for Sara to talk about it. Her audiences already are talking about, and we, the people, are the ones who must confront him.

[Chris]

Opposing before possessing the evidence is a very high risk. It can bring disaster. What if Obama should convincingly show he is a natural born citizen?

Not sure I agree with that sentiment. What's the risk? Produce it and the American people can say thank you very much. And what took you so long, btw?

[PeterUK]

"OTOH, this is a good site. With comments from many who see that gnawing at the birth issue is counter-productive when you lack teeth. Ditto for filing suits w/o merit."

A bit like the endless ethics complaints made against Sarah Palin. Completely counter productive?
BTW for many it isn't the "birth issue" it is the cover up of the birth issue.

[royf]

Ogabe doesn't do personal appearances that aren't choreographed. Last one was when Joe the Plumber asked a question and Barack let his mask slip.

As Joe what happens when you ask a inconvenient question to Ogabe.

[royf]

As Joe = Ask Joe

[So how does a 'native citizen' travel on an alien passport?]

K, your argument that Obama may be sandbagging us loses strength with every passing day. That was one of the fears that kept many Republicans from pursuing this issue before the election, but what does Obama have to gain from further stonewalling. In fact he has must to lose by further stonewalling.

Presume that he was born in Hawaii, as I ultimately believe. Then his bashfulness about the certificate, and the rationale for his campaign to keep it hidden would make sense before the election if it contained an embarrassment sufficiently damaging to him to effect the election. That might be a pretty low standard. But what is the rationale, now.

Your tactics are improving, K, but still, they are a red herring distracting from the fact that Obama is hiding a damaging secret. We deserve to know what it is, particularly since he is abrogating power to himself unconstitutionally.

[PeterUK]

"Opposing before possessing the evidence is a very high risk. It can bring disaster. What if Obama should convincingly show he is a natural born citizen?"

Obama is going to look very weird for refusing to do so up to this point.Moreover expending money and effort to deny public revelations is going to make him look insane.

[Oh, I'm so afraid of what it might show. That's why I cry unceasingly for even the briefest glimpse.]

I was too late; Chris made short work of your bullshit, K.

[sbw]

If one were really into conspiracy, one might suggest that the orders were pulled to make the case moot.

Frankly, I don't care about the case, Obama has demonstrated sufficient mendacity that in my book he is the worst president ever and the most dangerous.

The only viable path, however, short of mutiny, is to retake Congress at the next opportunity.

[PeterUK]

sbw,
"Frankly, I don't care about the case, Obama has demonstrated sufficient mendacity that in my book he is the worst president ever and the most dangerous."

You have to admit .he is the best at it - only six months.

[24AheadDotCom]

Weigel posted about me on his own site and then didn't approve the comment I left showing how he was wrong. I also spoke to his TWI editor about the wider issue, and it was like speaking to a glassy-eyed cultist.

And, Weigel, Ben Smith, and others have repeatedly failed to simply call HI and confirm their assumptions (see the link at the end of my "details" summary above).

Just today, Weigel is misleading about what a military spokesman said.

It's in their best interest to post corrections or do whatever it takes, because they aren't going to be able to mislead people forever.

[PeterUK]

WTF is Weigel?

Not Dave "Many,many" "That's a total myth - the lawyer representing Obama in California, for example, is working pro bono." Weigel?

Why is the lawyer working pro bono? Lawyers can get sectioned for charitable behaviour.

[Z]

Dude! His mother was a citizen! Hawaii said he was born there. How can anybody doubt his citizenship?! That is fricken nuts!

[Nice try, Z; try again.]

Sure, Z, his mother was a citizen, but not old enough to automatically confer citizenship on him IF he were born elsewhere. And Hawaii didn't say he was born there; they very carefully stated that a birth certificate is on file there. They specifically didn't say he was born there.

Why do I get the idea you are just spouting instead of reading the thread? This is 'The Facts' main point. How about addressing it instead of lying about it?

[PeterUK]

"Dude! His mother was a citizen! Hawaii said he was born there. How can anybody doubt his citizenship?! That is fricken nuts! "

Then why is Obama ashamed to prove it?

[Nice try, Z; try again.]

That's 'quid pro bono' Pete, or maybe 'quo pro quid'.

[PeterUK]

Quid pro quo.Is the president allowed to accept gifts,are they not taxable?

[Biggest crook, evah.]

It was a lousy pun on 'quid'. I think he also tried to spend campaign money.

[Z]

Wow. My parents lost my original birth certificate. Guess I'm not a citizen either. Lived my entire life in this country. Who knew.

[PeterUK]

"Wow. My parents lost my original birth certificate. Guess I'm not a citizen either. Lived my entire life in this country. Who knew."

Better get some blood tests,you might not even be human.

[Jane]

I want to know who is footing the $1,000,000 bill Obama has accumulated to bury this thing?

If it is the taxpayers we all have standing. Or should.

[Cecil Turner]

What an utterly disgusting tactic no matter what you might think about O or where he was born.

Why? If he had to volunteer to gain standing, what possible difference does his unvolunteering make to the big picture? Don't tell me lefties are all-of-a-sudden bent on cracking down on conscientious objectors. (Ain't like he's planting bombs in NCO clubs or anything.)

Racism, I guess, but no -good- reason.

Puh-leeze. We need a variation of Godwin's Law to apply to the absolutely silly, stupid, and offensive bandying about of the "racist" argument.

[We are not as dumb as you are.]

Z, you vault from crevice into unplumbed deaths. Your parents didn't lose your birth certificate; it's on file at the capitol of your state. Trust me.

[Danube of Thought]

I detest Obama. But in this instance he isn't covering anything up: there is no burden upon him whatsoever to adduce proof of his birth, any more than there is a burden on the Presley family to prove that Elvis is dead every time some nut claims to have seem him.

As for Z, if he is serious that his parents lost his birth certificate, he can write to the Secretary of the state where he was born to get a duplicate original or a certified copy. I have done so.

[PeterUK]

"I want to know who is footing the $1,000,000 bill Obama has accumulated to bury this thing?"

How many hip operations would this folie de vanite pay for?
Socialised medicine or socialised legal costs?

[PeterUK]

"As for Z, if he is serious that his parents lost his birth certificate, he can write to the Secretary of the state where he was born to get a duplicate original or a certified copy."

What, and get deported?

[Blind, ignorant, bias. And not even drunk to justify it.]

Sure, sure, DoT, Obama isn't covering anything up. Whatever you say.

But? Why do you say that? What is it that he is not covering up with such assiduousness?

Man, oh, man, my dear man; think what he'd have to spend if he WERE covering something up.

Now go hoist a fine frothy one from me, and peer into its depths. Do you see it, now?

[Sally Cravalho]

I was born in New York and all I ever had was a "certification of birth" as my parents changed my first name. A few years ago I became curious and wrote the state archieves for a copy of my original birth certificate...six weeks later I received it.

[::grin::]

They spelled it 'Carvalho' though, didn't they?

[Sally Cravalho]

to grin - interesting you should know the "Car vs. Cra" - must live out this way

[Even kim can be wrong; folks; just how often even kim doesn't know.]

I'm wrong?

[Extraneus]

Wouldn't it be great if you could somehow convince your opponents to play by Marques of Queensbury rules while you pick them off using whatever street-fighting tactics you thought might work? It would.

Personally, I'm not convinced there is any reason left to play by those rules. Bush Lied? No, he didn't. Libby? Ashcroft? Gonzales? Cheney? Estrades? Owen? Yoo? Sarah Palin, of course, and more, ad nauseum. These were and are all honorable patriots, many working night and day to protect us from terrorists. Think of all the "disgusting" tactics the left used over the past decade.

If you have time, check out some of the comments at that Baseball Crank thread on Sarah Palin.

I'm proud to be "scum of the earth" if it means I was part of a movement that made a right-wing religious nut run away in terror.

Or

...absolutely everything is fair game to make sure that person never gets a significant amount of power.

Just to cite a couple.

Absolutely everything, indeed. These aren't real Americans, they're facists. And it wouldn't be unreasonable, or even bad form, to consider what tactics might be worthy of such opponents.

[Tom Maguire]

The problem with Tom's theory is that none of the many, many biographers of Barack Obama have found any record of his parents taking an expensive and dangerous trip out of Hawai'i in the final months of Ann Dunham's pregnancy.

I have a theory? Geez, what is it - that the Dunhams had a motive to, hmm, carefully manage the reporting of Obama's birth? That has not been rebutted.

As to whether Ms. Dunham went to Kenya in 1961, it seems bold and adventurous, like the rest of her life. Is it really unimaginable that she left the US while six months pregnant, planned to be back at seven months and - SURPRISE - had an early birth in Kenya instead? If Obama were a normal birth weight baby that hypothetical scenario (NOT my theory, just a scenario) would take on water, but (darn it!) the short form birth certificate does not mention a weight.

FWIW, I know I have seen guesses that she gave birth in Vancouver. That is closer to home for a gal from Washington. Why Vancouver? Presumably because for the guess to be interesting it needs to be out of the US. The stated rationale, IIRC, was that Vancouver had better medical care than Seattle or Honolulu. As to whether this is plausible, it beats me - I am not familiar with the Wild West of 1961.

[Well, that's how I keep from waking up in the night screaming in horror.]

Really, E, I'm hoping for a hoist on their own petard sort of resolution. Such tactics have never stood the test of time. Alinsky and Gramsci aren't new they are just reworked classical human deception. The truth will out. We may not recognize it, but these jokers are temporary. The hubris and the karma are lethal.

[PeterUK]

Extraneus
Well said!

Only one thing,the don't have the guts to be real fascists,these people are the school sneaks and cowardly bullies. Note the "I was part of a movement" they wouldn't have the guts to stand up to Sarah Palin face to face.
If being decent means making the world safe for back stabbing scum to rise to the top ..forget it.

[Oh, oh, Tom's wondering. If he stand with me, who can stand against?]

T, your theory holds a little water. It might explain the birth notice in the paper. I've little doubt that Stanley Ann's folks were suspicious of the bonafides of their new son-in-law, and I'm pretty sure they didn't know he was already married. I wonder if she knew.

Yeah, Vancouver gets a more likely vote for me than Kenya. But we don't know, do we. I about half think that Obama was lied to for much of his youth about much of his past.

[PeterUK]

Mr Maguire.
It was not unknown for pregnant teenagers to be sent away to avoid scandal even in 1961.The social revolution had not yet taken place.It isn't unthinkable that the nice upper middle class socialist parents of Stanley Dunham would want to keep things under wraps.

[MayBee]

OT- but this is interesting. From Political

Before the President’s speech in Ghana last week, a SMS texting service was set up throughout Africa and they invited people to text the president in either English or French -- resulting in nearly 16,000 messages from 87 countries in Africa and beyond. The US embassy in South Africa partnered with a mobile-based social networking site and garnered an additional 200,000 questions and comments from throughout the continent.

....

The list of 250,000 email addresses will be used again for “ongoing involvement” – as the administration will reach out to continue the discussion going forward.

[Tom Maguire]

Taking a different tack - would Hillary dare exert her authority as Sec State to peek at Obama's passport file? That might provide some answers and clear her path to a nomination in 2012.

Or not. Would the vaunted Clinton apparatus really have failed to crack this during the race?

[Well, MayBee could, were she so inclined. She could take on the world, and has.]

You noticed from the other day, MayBee, that a newspaper in Ghana called Africa the continent of Obama's birth, didn't you?

[Pofarmer]

I detest Obama. But in this instance he isn't covering anything up: there is no burden upon him whatsoever to adduce proof of his birth,

Then why even have requirements to be President? Hell, just let anybody run that wants too.

[Hillary is waiting, folks; for how long, even Hillary doesn't know.]

I don't think the Passport Agency has the information, not the US one. Indonesia and Pakistan know, though.

Hillary didn't snap to this issue until after the nomination was lost. Even if she knows the truth, she can't use it, yet.

[He's vacationing.]

It's not DoT at his best, Pof. For one thing, what is the logical connection between 'not covering anything up' and 'no requirement to prove'?

[PeterUK]

If Obama is Ametican,why can't he do the things that Americans can do.He can't throw,he can't jump,he can't play golf and he doesn't like guns.In fact he does American like a foreigner.

[Captain Hate]

Would the vaunted Clinton apparatus really have failed to crack this during the race?

Well those idiots were only pouring over Republican FBI files for weeks on end....

Hmmmm, seem to have some new posters tonight; a couple legit ones and the usual Axelturf filth.

[PeterUK]

Yes,he's Ametican! Emetican?