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August 17, 2009

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Just Singin' in the Rain.

I think that's why you wander almost aimlessly in the rain; in hopes no one recognizes you.

bgates

I am certain I could not make a positive ID on the mean streets of Long Branch.

Even with a hint, like him telling you, "my name is Bob Dylan"?

And how many "non-criminal possibilities" justify the police telling a guy to get in their car? So he was walking around without ID. It's not like he was trying to vote get elected President speak to a Democratic elected official in a public forum or anything.

AL

Definitely AT, but when The Bob was asked what he thinks about Global Warming, he replied: “What GW? It’s freezing out here”

Good to see old R-N-R geezer got his brain intact by Hollywood dementia.

LUN

Original MikeS

Let's see, a famous old weird guy is out in the rain at night, scaring the citizenry. He doesn't carry ID, and doesn't know where he is staying.

Based on those facts, I don't think a police officer can say, "Ok. Carry on. Sorry to have bothered you." Even if she knew that he was Bob Dylan, a guy who doesn't know where his shelter is on a rainy night could get hypothermia and die in a few hours.

peter

Andy Borowitz is just not that funny.

Captain Hate

Thanks for that NewsBusters link, AL; Jann Wenner is such a clueless putz that he's become "Mr Jones" in Ballad of a Thin Man and he's too dense to realize it. I'm glad he came out of the closet; the gays can have that insignificant worm. It was somewhat heartening to read some of the sober reflections of sixties icons (particularly Stewart Brand: WOW) because the recent Woodstock nostalgia is irritating the hell out of me.

PeterUK

Zimmerman has been deconstructing the myth for years now.

jean

OT would some one please explain what the White House said about the e-mail dust up.It seems to me they are saying they don't merge with other groups,but a 3rd party got their list.How did the 3rd party get the list?Who is the 3rd party?I'm really very confused

centralcal

jean: I agree with you. The White House "explanation" is just mumbo jumbo. I guess the "third party" was the Obama campaign. snort.

jean

The White House spokesman is telling FOX it will disable the 3rd party e-mail device.What exactly is a 3rd party e-mail device?Could anyone just hook into the White House and get their e-mail list?

Captain Hate

Dylan has perpetually perplexed the left by his refusal to be co-opted by them; going back to infuriating the Stalinist fossils like Pete Seeger by desecrating the Newport Folk Festival with *gasp* electric instruments but also being considerably vague on his Vietnam opinions. If I could ask him one question it would be if he was irritated or bemused by being the source of the Weatherman moniker for third rate dumbbells like Ayers and his ilk.

Jane

What exactly is a 3rd party e-mail device?

A big fat lie.

BB Key

Beware, the "Adninistration is giving up on the public option" is an Alelrod ploy to gin up the left.

CSPAN flogged it for 2 hours this morning and by the end of the last segment the loons on the left with their prepaid long distance calling cards were foaming at the mouth.
Just in time for Obama to step off stage and go to the Vineyard

Porch "Fancy Pants" Light

I think a 3rd party email device allows you to send out email from someone else's address. Meaning if Axelrod had a list, he could do an email blast from the WH email address, but "technically" it wasn't really "from" the WH. So I'm guessing that's the Gibbs excuse.

But since Axelrod works for Obama in the WH, this is a distinction without a difference.

AND it doesn't explain where Axelrod got the addresses in the first place.

So as Jane says, a big fat lie.

sbw

Brush with... ah... fame?

Bob Dylan borrowed (and kept) my guitar pick at the 1965 Newport Folk Festival.

And Mary, from PP&M was hot.

And Pete Seeger didn't think to much of my 5-string banjo modified to 9-strings.

the bishop

I can't imagine he was too impressed with
Bill Ayer's group either, he probably agreed
with the goal, but not the methods. He hasn't been terribly obsessed about global warming either. I was reading that the big LSD entrepresario, name escapes me right, isn't on the same wavelengths

Cecil Turner

Timothy Leary? Hunter S. Thompson? (Both dead.)

the bishop

No, it was the one with the really preppy name, they were just the end users.

boris

owsley? Still around.

Extraneus

From the whitehouse.gov Privacy Policy:

We collect Personal Information from eligible individuals who affirmatively request to receive e-mail or other services from us. We collect this Personal Information in order to provide these eligible individuals with timely information via e-mail regarding events, resources and issues.

It is our general policy not to make Personal Information available to anyone other than our employees, staff, and agents.

The question they should answer is: "Who are the agents?" These would have to be the 3rd parties.

the bishop

He lives in Australia now, but I caught a piece of an interview he did with Rolling Stone, I think he was more of a global cooling far "for how long, . .."

Extraneus

Cool, sbw. I once jammed with the bass player from "Radar Love".

da dum dum dum dum dum dum du dah
da dum dum dum dum dum dum du dah

gmax

Golden Earing

The One hit wonders?

Cool

yo

i wonder if he'll be looking for obama's birth place when his tour gets to kenya.

Porchlight

Well, technically two-hit wonders. "Radar Love" and "Twilight Zone" (the Bullet Hits the Bone song).

Not bad for a Dutch band.

RichatUF

Extraneus-

The White House shouldn't be passing on personal information to their lobbyists (ie Organizing for America or the DNC).

RichatUF

Extraneus-

I should have been more clear. I think when the White House includes "agents" in their privacy disclosure they mean "lobbyists".

I'm not exactly sure how Organizing for America is organized within the DNC (it is indicated as a "project" and "not authorized" by Obama, but I've never seen a definition of "project" and "not authorized" is difficult to credit), but it could be set up in such a way that the Obama Administration is trying to outrun the Lobbyist Disclosure Act and other campaign finance regulations at the FEC and IRS.

hit and run

Dylan may have been a confused old man who was having a mild stroke, or had slipped in the rain and hit his head, or was a hit-and-run victim

Well, no, I didn't party all night with Dylan and drink him under the table until he was wasted into incoherence and then wandered off in a daze, if that's what you mean, TM.

Parking Lot

((Dylan has perpetually perplexed the left by his refusal to be co-opted by them;))

He sure didn't let himself be co-opted by Joan Baez.

MayBee

The White House is trying to say that the same groups who sat at the computer all day entering campaign "donors" using prepaid Visas are now sitting at the computer all day entering people into the WH email list.

Jane

Does anyone know where that fabulous takedown of Perlstein is?

I am just so internet over loaded.

Parking Lot

((.... The White House "explanation" is just mumbo jumbo. ))

It sounds like people will still have to register at the Whitehouse site if they want to read any content such as the president's public speeches etc. Resistering is virtually signing up for emails. IMO the WH site content should be fully transparent with no registry required.

PaulL

Bob Dylan in 1968, answering the pushy interviewer about Vietnam:

"Anyway, how do you know that I'm not, as you say, for the war?"

LUN for column from 2006.

the bishop

It's page 11, in the LUN, he's got the relationship backwards, he thinks sea temperature has the affect on CO 2, thinks
the nuclear power industry is behind it (epic fail)But he doesn't see the hand of King Carbon as the problem, which cannot be said for many who supposedly have not inhaled

MayBee

IMO the WH site content should be fully transparent with no registry required.

I agree.
When he had his first online town hall, you had to provide your email address to ask a question. I didn't approve.

MayBee

Although, Parking Lot, I just went to the website and you can see the written speeches without providing an email address.

the bishop

You mean the Stephen
Bainbridge piece, it's in the LUN

MayBee

The email form at the White House website invites you to "send questions, comments, concerns, or well-wishes to the President.."

I find the "well-wishes" invitation hilarious.

Jane

That's it bishop, Thanks!

Parking Lot

MayBee

((Although, Parking Lot, I just went to the website and you can see the written speeches without providing an email address.))

Now there's a good lesson. Even as I was typing my post I was thinking, I really should check this out before posting it. I had read elsewhere about the need to register at the WH site to read speeches, but can't remember where. Thanks for doing the due diligence I should have done.

glasater

Veering O/T but still talking about famous people--I thought for sure Dennis Miller was going to be on 'Dancing With the Stars' this season but it turns out that--ta da--

Tom Delay is the token 'old' white guy:-)

Extraneus

Health concession fuels blowback

Howard Dean, the former Democratic National Committee chairman, went so far as to say Democrats should try to “tackle health reform another time.”

“You can’t really have reform without a public option,” Dean said on CBS News’s “The Early Show. “If you don’t want to have the public option, … just do a little insurance reform … and then we’ll tackle health reform another time. But let’s not pretend we’re doing reform without a public option.

And strategist James Carville became the first leading Democrat to suggest publicly that there might be political advantage in letting Republicans “kill” health care.

“Put a bill out there, make them filibuster it, make them be what they are, the party of no,” Carville said. “Let them kill it. Let them kill it with the interest group money, then run against them. That's what we ought to do.”

Parking Lot

((Veering O/T))

Tom Delay ... Born to Dance

who'd a thunk it?

the bishop

Is Carville really that stupid, this is not a rhetorical question, all of the big industries are flacking for cap n tax and
the single payer system. If you can't pull this with 60 votes, what good are you.

Meanwhile, the editors at NRO are as lost as Dylan, thankfully Andrew McCarthy has a roadmap, in the LUN

Rob Crawford

Meanwhile, the editors at NRO are as lost as Dylan, thankfully Andrew McCarthy has a roadmap, in the LUN

NRO needs to get over the "Conservative Cringe", or at least pull their collective heads out of their collective asses and realize that the beltway mentality they're stuck in is the problem.

the bishop

Rush is citing the Dylan segment, but as usual he doesn't cite the source.

Tom Maguire

Well, no, I didn't party all night with Dylan and drink him under the table until he was wasted into incoherence and then wandered off in a daze, if that's what you mean, TM.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Boatbuilder

Hey, TM, I know you just posted on this so you could run the "shelter from the storm" line.

I'm pretty sure Dylan just thought he was in Jaurez at Easter time.

fdcol63

" ... but I wish she had used the word "erratically" in place of "suspicious" - I suspect it would convey her actual meaning in a less inflammatory way ..."

Having been a police dispatcher for 5 years, I can defend her use of the word "suspicious". It's how many, if not most, law enforcement agencies and officers describe something or someone that's out of the ordinary or that's worth investigating a little closer.

There was nothing remotely inflammatory in the description, intended or otherwise.

bunky

Listen to "Tweeter and the Monkeyman" from the Travelling Wilberries 1988 record. It's a real "love" letter to the boss.

hic and run

TM:
Thanks for clearing that up.

And thank you for calling the potential for me to have done so "non-criminal" in your post.

verner

My almost 21 year old and my 17 year old both know who BD is, like his music and have lots of his stuff on their IPods.. I raised them right.

gmax

And my 22 year old digs the Beach Boys. I think I win, at least the Beach Boys could harmonize and stay on pitch.

Raoul Ortega

They were all just reenacting "The Sopranos" episode where Junior gets lost in Newark.

Hucbald

I've met Bob Dylan, and I can see where a casual observer would think him eccentric and a cop would find him suspicious. I'm a musician and I thought he was plenty eccentric! That said, I really and truly find it nearly unfathomable that ANYONE could be within twenty-five feet of him and not recognize him, or at least understand that he's someone extremely special. Gobs of charisma for such a short guy. Paul Simon too (But Simon is as down to earth as a welcome mat).

buzz

Ah. I had no idea it was against the law to walk around at night in the rain. Or is there a age requirement? And I am required to tell the cops where I am staying because I am out walking in the rain? All news to me.

Oh, bother

Anybody besides me remember how Jimmy Carter just worshipped Bob Dylan and couldn't stop talking about how great his poetry is? It got so bad Dylan eventually said something like Hey man, I was just trying to make it rhyme.

Folks who didn't think much of The Peanut got a big kick out of that.

Soylent Red

Wouldn't it be great if Levon Helm had come out publicly and said that he thought the cops had "acted stupidly" in this case?

Dylan has perpetually perplexed the left

Well you know, ya gotta serve somebody. I've been a big fan of Bob's for a long time now and I get the real feeling from reading interviews and books that Bob serves Bob.

That's what I like about him I suppose. He may be for or against something, but he's for or against it because he wants to be that way, not to maintain his hipster rock-n-roll persona.

Which is where the whole "deconstructing the myth" element comes from I believe. He used to be angry about it, then he became reclusive. Now? I think he's been around long enough to just be amused by it.

"I try so hard to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them."

Truer words were never spoken.

Assistant Village Idiot

Unrecognised people wandering about in odd circumstances, such as driving rain, have always been of concern in every society, including ours. When there are very stable populations, we get used to everyone being recognised and no one being stopped. That's no longer true. There's nothing soviet about it.

Captain Hate

Folks who didn't think much of The Peanut got a big kick out of that.

Dhimmi Earl also got something akin to "adultery of the heart" when he heard a solo piano performance by Cecil Taylor and tried to catch up to him to say something about it except CT was avoiding him as if he was a killer rabbit.

bgates

There's nothing soviet about a person being detained by police without a hint of a crime?

el polacko

what's sad and scary is that these 20-something cops had never even HEARD of bob dylan ! when i was younger, names like glenn miller or cab calloway were not foreign to me. ..the dumbing down of america.

Mikey NTH

"My name is Bob Dylan."

Possible responses to that declaration: They range from 'You Are!' to 'Who?' to 'Yeah, right. And I'm the Queen of Diamonds.'

Jonathan Card

the bishop,

I'm not following the pronouns, but "he" could be right. As ocean temperatures go up, it loses the ability to dissolve gasses (as water always does) and dissolved CO2 un-dissolves. This is a phenomenon that's happened in previous warmings. It's a little controversial whether it's happening now. (Ocean pH levels are going up, which may mean that CO2 is getting more dissolved into the water because of raised CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere, rather than the expected. It may also mean that, with the lowered ability to dissolve CO2, the same amount of CO2 is leading to more acidity because it's supersaturated or something; I'm kind of unclear about this. It could also mean something completely different that people don't know they don't know.)

Jim Treacher

Bobby's on the sidewalk
Talkin' nice with the cops
Skip's in his rented house
Actin' like a total louse

Chester White


"And Mary, from PP&M was hot."

Hey, sbw, which of those P's was the child molester? I forget.

Chester White


Ah, yes, a bit of Googling reveals it was the first P:

"Pleaded guilty to taking "immoral and improper liberties" with a 14-year-old girl back in 1970."

http://www.theawarenesscenter.org/Yarrow_Peter.html

John

>>> Dylan may have been a confused old man who was having a mild stroke, or had slipped in the rain and hit his head, or was a hit-and-run victim - the non-criminal possibilities are endless.

That is why the police are required to have probable cause for stopping someone, because the excuses for denying people their civil rights "are endless".

Under your view of civil rights, the police can detain and question anyone, anytime "because they could be sick or fell down and hit their head or maybe even a hit-and-run victim.

I wouldn't want to live in your world.

Boatbuilder

John--Lighten up. From the article, it doesn't sound like Dylan was particularly troubled by the cop, who gave him a ride back to his hotel. Would you prefer that they follow him around until something criminal happened? It's part of what cops do--keep the neighborhood safe.
The police don't need probable cause to question someone; they need probable cause to search or arrest them. By asking questions they avoid mistakes--like arresting innocent people or failing to arrest truly dangerous people.
Try talking to a real cop sometime. Or try living in a neighborhood where there's no police presence. It's not a world you'd want to live in.

Bozoer Rebbe

Plenty of folks have made the trek to Hibbing, to see the house where Bob grew up. I'm sure some pics I took when we visited Hibbing are still floating around the Net.

bgates

Would you prefer that they follow him around until something criminal happened?

I can imagine a third possibility besides detention and surveillance.

The police don't need probable cause to question someone; they need probable cause to search or arrest them.

But apparently they can order someone into the car without probable cause, unless they use the magic words "you're under arrest".

the bishop

I was referring to August Stanley Owsley 111, the LSD chemist behind the psychedelic
explosion.

sbw

Ken Kesey is gone, too.

But I think the bus, Further, lives on.

Porchlight

I'm having a hard time getting worked up about this one. Dylan has been around the block a few times; he didn't seem bothered by it. Not all encounters with the police are 100% involuntary on the part of the citizen. Maybe he thought getting out of the rain, talking to a cute police officer and getting a ride back to the hotel at the same time sounded like a pretty good idea.

Boatbuilder

It's pretty horrible. The police officer obviously decided to take him back to his hotel because she hates Jews, or folk music, or something. It was part of the Bush police state program.

He's a very strange looking guy wandering into people's yards late at night in the rain who, when asked, says he's Bob Dylan. The cop said she thought he was from one of the local hospitals. What the hell is the cop supposed to do?

What's the third possibility--ignore the call? "He said he's Bob Dylan, that's good enough for me (even though he looked like an axe murderer)."

I'm a big Dylan fan. I'm glad he didn't catch cold. His voice is shot as it is.

RebeccaH

I've been known to take the odd stroll at night in the rain when I'm bored out of my skull (no drugs, and usually with an umbrella, because I like to walk, and I like the privacy). I can understand Dylan's wanderings, especially if he was looking for a specific house, but I also understand the police taking an interest. And I understand 20-somethings not knowing who Bob Dylan is.

fdcol63

And in other news .....

New Jersey Police Officer Fired for Ignoring A Lost Elderly Man With Alzheimers

"Critics and family members are enraged that a NJ police officer failed to check on an elderly white male who appeared dazed and confused in a pouring rain. They claim that he could have got needed help if only she'd bothered to stop and ask him some questions."

flan

His boot heels took him wandering. To the cops he was a complete unknown, like a rolling stone.

Peter

I don't care who you are, carry ID. If you get hit by a bus, all the rights in the world won't let your family know you're in the hospital. And when a police officer asks you for something with your name on it, don't blather about Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union. We have better things to do than stand there in the rain arguing. While we don't usually answer such nonsense with a sap glove 'cross the kisser anymore, you seldom know who we are looking for or why. Felony prone can be unpleasent in mud or gravel. And there is a crime in most states called failure to identify. It's not a heavy crime but it can be a trip to the station and a not insignificant fine.

Milhouse

Balko has never been very careful with his facts.

bgates

What's the third possibility--ignore the call? "He said he's Bob Dylan, that's good enough for me (even though he looked like an axe murderer)."

You hit on the third possibility, though you seem to be using "ignore" in the idiosyncratic sense of "respond to", with the added fantasy that a diminutive 70 year old Jewish man fits the police profile of an axe murderer despite the complete absence of (A) an axe and (B) murdered people.

And there is a crime in most states called failure to identify.

The first text of such a law that I could find was for Texas. It requires...a failure to identify. Bob Dylan said he was Bob Dylan. The Texas law also specifies that the failure to provide a name to police take place in the context of a legal arrest, which this wasn't.

"Critics and family members are enraged that a NJ police officer failed to check on an elderly white male who appeared dazed and confused in a pouring rain. They claim that he could have got needed help if only she'd bothered to stop and ask him some questions."
Defenders of the police pointed out that the officer had in fact stopped and asked him some questions and even offered him a ride home, and that she could not legally take him into custody against his will since he was not suspected of committing a crime.

I wonder how long some of you think the police should be able to detain somebody for walking in the rain without a permit. Overnight?

Boatbuilder

Maybe they should have arrested him for trespassing. They certainly had "probable cause" to do so.
Instead they did their job, and the only reason anybody thinks it's a big deal is because it involved Bob Dylan (who doesn't think its a big deal).
Lighten up.

bgates

Lighten up.

Argue better.

Ignatz

Not sure I get this conversation.
How was he detained? He voluntarily agreed to be driven back to his hotel. Had he not agreed and then been arrested or detained I can see a possible problem. But he wasn't just walking down the street, in the middle of a rainstorm he was walking around on people's private property without any ID.
I didn't think the cops did anything wrong in a similar situation with a minor league Harvard professor and I think major league folk singers ought to be subject to the same concern for public safety, especially when the former was on his own property and the latter on someone else's.

--"Critics and family members are enraged that a NJ police officer failed to check on an elderly white male who appeared dazed and confused in a pouring rain. They claim that he could have got needed help if only she'd bothered to stop and ask him some questions."--

Maybe the cop saw the Dylan story and just figured it was a decrepit Robert Plant out for a stroll.

Boatbuilder

"Lighten up" was not my argument--merely advice.
My argument, since you apparently missed it, is that the cops had "probable cause" to arrest John Doe (a/k/a "Bob Dylan") for trespassing, but didn't. Rather, they excercised discretion in "detaining" (or "offering a ride home to," to use a less pejorative description) him. The alleged "victim" doesn't seem to have had a problem with it, and neither do I. I would hope that my own local police would act similarly under the circumstances, even if I were the guy walking around in the rain (I can sometimes get a little strange looking myself, and do take walks from time to time). If some guy claiming to be Bob Dylan walked into my yard late at night in the rain, for the sake of my wife and kids I'd hope they'd at least ask him for some ID. That's what I pay taxes for.
Screaming "police brutality" isn't much of an argument, either.

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Wilson/Plame