Brits In Afghanistan - Backing The Mission But Not The Strategy

Matt Drudge is currently leading with this Breitbart report.  The lead:

The international military mission in Afghanistan has delivered "much less than it promised" due to the lack of a realistic strategy, an influential committee of lawmakers said Sunday.

In a report, the House of Commons Foreign Affairs Committee said without a clear strategy stabilising Afghanistan had become "considerably more difficult than might otherwise have been the case."

Lawmakers criticised US policies in Afghanistan and Pakistan and warned the "considerable cultural insensitivity" of some coalition troops had caused serious damage to Afghans' perceptions that will be "difficult to undo".

We find a bit more of the stiff upper lip at the Parliament website (my emphasis):

The Committee recognises that the security situation in Afghanistan, particularly in the south where the majority of British troops are based, will remain precarious for some time to come. But the report says that there can be no question of the international community abandoning Afghanistan, and that the issue at stake must therefore be how best the UK and its allies can allocate responsibilities and share burdens so as to ensure that the country does not once again fall into the hands of those who seek to threaten the security of the UK and the West.

The Brits have problems with the unfocused US vision and the unbecomingly modest NATO contribution.

The full report (321 page .pdf) is here.  At a glance, their assessment of the new Obama approach (p. 72 and following) is generally supportive.

Comments

[Obama wakes up in the night wondering how the Left trapped him into Alexandria, AKA Kandahar..]

If MacChrystal can't do it, somebody can. We need a Commander-in-Chief, though.

[PeterUK.]

Both the Iraq and the Afghan campaigns were joined by Britain to project Tony Bliar onto the world stage.There was NO thought given to capability,strategy,equipment or cost.
Even now the MoD is dithering about on equipment and the Brown Junta reducing the military budget overall.(See EUReferendum)

My view is that unless there is some overall political objective with the government providing full backing and materiel to achieve that objective,Britain should pull out.

"A scrimmage in a Border Station--
A canter down some dark defile--
Two thousand pounds of education
Drops to a ten-rupee jezail--
The Crammer's boast, the Squadron's pride,
Shot like a rabbit in a ride!"

Kipling

The Arithmetic does not add up.

[Original MikeS]

I think Afghanistan offers an opportunity to develop robotic and remote controlled devices and tactics to defend a civilian population.

Historically, it has required a large force on the ground to "hold" territory that has been "taken" by military action. A permanent or semi-permanent ground force has a pretty large logistics footprint.

Replacing that force on the ground with warbots and remote sensors might prove to be cheaper and less intrusive. I do not know how well it would work, but the point is to develop systems and procedures that cost the enemy more than they cost us.

[narciso]

The problem is we've seen this story, before, Peter, to retreat at this point, is to empower the Taliban and AQ, toward yet another atrocity. Now it may be that a combination of economics and demographics will prevent Britain from responding, as they are endeavoring to do in this country. Now this garbage about' cultural
insensitivity'what's the proper phrase, 'a tinker's cuss' about
about

[Of course, I may be waaaay optimistic.]

Well, I think the Pakistani Army has finally figured out that it is fighting for its life, and I think they'll pressure the whole mess toward Afghanistan. If we can hold on there, the whole madrassah madness may get squeezed like a nut in a nutcracker.

[PeterUK.]

Narciso,
It is already lost to the Taleban.More areas are involved in fighting.We didn't do what was necessary from the beginning,I don't think modern nations can anymore,now it is too late.
There is already talk of holding discussions with the "moderate Taleban",the writing is on the wall,they are going to up skirts and run.
I see no point in getting expensively raised westerners killed just for a politician's brain fart.
To paraphrase Bismark,"The whole of Afghanistan is not worth the bones of a single British Grenadier".

[narciso]

I guess so, Peter, when the Taliban's
volunteers from Luton, get there ahead of the SBS and the SAS, we certainly have a big problem. But I guess if thinking about
such things distracts from viewings of "Coronation Street" and "Holroyd City"
well that won't do.

[PeterUK.]

Narciso,

Whils the British people support the troops,they don't support the war,which is regarded as some game played by our crooked political elite. As the bodies arrive at Wotton Bassett,the question is being asked,what is this for?
You had 9/11,our 7/7 was home grown.On the one hand the Socialist government is asking the ultimate sacrifice of our young people,on the other hand opening our borders to many who hate us and allowing Preachers of Hatred free access of our streets,to spew their venom.
How do you expect us to take Afghanistan seriously?

[boris]

Sorta like Rock Paper IED.

Dimorats only play for keeps against the GOP, which only plays for keeps against terrorists, who always play for keeps.

[PeterUK.]

Narciso.
Our politicians have been saying that the war in Afghanistan is to "Keep the streets of Britain safe". At the same time our home grown jihadis can go and get practical experience at killing out troops in Afghanistan. Further the Socialist government grovels to the very ideology we are fighting in Afghanistan.So I see little point in fighting there and surrendering here.

[Terry Gain]

There are always those who will blame us first. The fact of the matter is that, unlike Iraqis, Afghanis have not stood up to the terrorists in their midst. The solution to this problem is beyond me, so for now I'll concentrate on putting forth convincing arguments as to why Obama's LFBC should be released.

[Terry Gain]

Dimorats only play for keeps against the GOP, which only plays for keeps against terrorists, who always play for keeps.
Posted by: boris | August 02, 2009 at 11:42 AM

I concur. Democrats fight the enemy with a ferociousness that is truly remarkable. Unfortunately, for them, the enemy is anyone who interferes with their natural right to govern.

[Dave in OC]

Sorry to go so OT but following Daddy's link yesterday I discovered a REAL tragedy - Scarlett Johansson has apparently had breast reduction surgery! LUN

[PeterUK.]

Dave,
How can you tell,has she stopped falling over?

[Dave in OC]

No but those pictures are really alarming! I mean when you have her women costars commenting on how lovely her rack is this is a true tragedy of enormous proportions!

I was thinking of Valley of the Dolls but I'm not wanting to be that morbid. And why that f***er Manson is still breathing is a mystery to me...

[Frau Sonntag]

Bah-dah-bum, PUK! Worthy of "Don't put your daughter on the stage, Mrs. Worthington."

Something is definitely different-- breast binding? In photo#7, Ms. Johansson bears a strong resemblance (IMO) to Stanley Ann Dunham.

[boris]

IIRC ScarJo lost weight to play a character in a recent film. Black Widow in Iron Man II.

[PeterUK.]

Frau,
She looks too much like Madonna for my taste.

[Captain Hate]

She looks too much like Madonna for my taste.

That's exactly what I thought in those pix; what a shame.

[PeterUK.]

Captain
I prefer women shaped women,not someone who looks like beef jerky.

[Frau Sonntag]

Ms.Johansson needs more beer,liverwurst sandwiches and knishes. She should do it for her fans.

[Frau Sonntag]

OT - What's the prediction for Skype? We use it daily to talk to relatives. I even had a lady in Hamburg contact me to help her with her family genealogy.

[matt]

One of the emerging threads in Afghanistan is "negotiating with the Taliban". This has now been heard from Karzai and American and British diplomats. I think this would be a terrible mistake. You cannot negotiate with terrorists, and the Taliban surely are that.

The drug trade drives the Taliban as well as the same tribal knavery of the past 150 years. Take away their finance and you weaken them tremendously. This is not some arcana but something that any good DA knows. It's how they got Capone. Time for the judicious use of some persistent poppy specific herbicide.

In the meantime more kids are dying and it would seem the UK government is selling out their own military. Not to say we're doing much better.

Petraeus has been quiet, letting McChrystal have his way, but the more I read about McChrystal, it seems he spent most of his time chasing bad guys rather than involved in the Surge. Sounds like it's getting pretty damned messed up again.

[Frau Skeptisch am Sonntag]

Our media tells us that the war on drugs in Afghanistan has not been successful and should be abandoned, if I read it correctly. Is the current approach another way to lead us to honorable retreat under a new pseudonym?

[Jack is Back!]

Afghanistan has become a nation-building exercise and police action rather than a security issue by disabling the Taliban and chasing or exterminating AQ. When you fall into the trap of promoting democracy and free elections and safe neighborhoods you become more Rudi Guiliani than George Patton. Any student of history and especially "The Great Game" knows that you will never conquer Afghanistan and its myriad tribal sensitivities and culture. But you can demolish the militancy from Pakistan and the Arabia. We need to make security the priority and let the tribes and the Afghan culture take care of the rest. My own personal opinion is to cripple the Taliban and send AQ to somewhere other than Pakistan (but that is a tall order). Obama has Jim Jones who was critical of W for making Iraq the focus and not Afghanistan. Okay, General, now that you have some say-so, what next?

[PeterUK.]

"HEY HEY OBAMAY, HOW MANY KIDS DID YOU KILL TODAY"?

I can hear them singing that in Berkeley now.

[matt]

The Talibi are not atypical in Afghanistan. If you read the history, they were always the nexus of brutality and opposition to the established order, whether it was the Afghan king, the British, or even further back. We would probably have found the same mentality in Alexander's time if they had left a stinking clay tablet behind.

They are brutal, vicious murderers who most of the time use religion to further vendettas, clan wars, and brigandage. There is no real solution except utter subjugation a la Saudi,Jordan, etc. of this sector and then the constabulary to make sure they never arise again. A massive commitment.

And then the corruption and incompetence of the central government is stunning as well. We might have to take their best and brightest and educate them someplace like Jordan or the States for a generation before they "get it". At least Iraq had some of the building blocks in place.

We can kill Talibi all day long, but they must be extirpated from the Afghan culture first. There is no negotiation.

[Pagar]

What's the prediction for Skype?

Look at magicjack.com

We love it. Just plug your regular phone in to the Magic Jack-plug Magic Jack into the USB port and one/two minutes later you're in business.

[Veeshir]

We can kill Talibi all day long, but they must be extirpated from the Afghan culture first. There is no negotiation.

Bing, bing, bing. We have a winner.

We had to go into Afghanistan, but we're going to be stuck there for a very long time.

They have the "we've always done it this way" attitude and won't easily accept that way sucks and is the reason their country sucks.

[PaulL]

How many Britons have had guns aimed at them, directing them to become junkies? If the poppies didn't come from Afghanistan, they'd come from somewhere else. Or do you figure if there were no Afghan poppies, England would give up smack?

Drug suppliers get a bum rap compared to drug users.

[Frau Sonntag]

Will take a look at magic jack, Pagar. Thanks. What we like about Skype is the ability to have a group conversation.

[Pagar]

Frau Sonntag, I have no knowledge of any group arrangement. We only use it for one on one conversations. The thing I like about it is how easy it is to use, overseas as well as stateside.

[narciso]

The problem is this strand of Deobandism and Wahhabism that comes up like a bad penny with Syed Ahmad around 1825, Inayat Ali around 1850,Abdullah Ali, around the time of Umbeyla in 1863, Mullah Sadullah of Malakand, the real "Sultan of Swat" in 1897, and ultimately the Fakir of Waziristan, putting it that way it does seem hopeless, as Cpl Hudson of "Aliens"
put it "game over man"

[Boatbuilder]

"1-2-3-4 What are we fighting for?"

If you don't have an answer to that question, you are cooked.

Obama doesn't really know what we are/were fighting for in Afghanistan. All he knows is that he made some political calculations and took it on as the "good war" as opposed to Iraq, which was "bad".

Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Feith, VDH, maybe even Hillary (I can't believe I wrote that) could provide some clues. But Obama doesn't get it, and never will.

Bush listened to Petreus because he knew how absolutely crucial it was to prevail in Iraq.

Obama listens to his generals because he has no idea what to do otherwise. He's hoping someone will take care of things for him.

[PeterUK]

Boatbuilder.
Which is why I can no longer support the war in Afghanistan.I don't want to see young live thrown away for this flim flam man. It is probable that,our military do no trust out government,the people certainly don't.
There is a general feeling that our pols will pull the rug on the whole thing for political purposes.We have a general election coming up,Afghanistan is a pawn in the game.Too many lives,too much money,and we will be out.
Perhaps Obama should have made nicer to Brown.

[Danube of Thought]

Some British officer said yesterday that the troops are too fat to fight. Jesus. As Gen. Brute Krulak used to say, "a fat Marine is a dead Marine."

[clarice]

Can't happen,PUK--Why I recall being told that once we got that warmonger Bush out, the world would love us and be allies with us once again.

[PeterUK]

DoT.
Soldiers too fat to be deployed to Afghanistan. They have probably been hanging around the garrison towns drinking beer for years,whilst the government save up enough money for them to train with live ammunition.

[PeterUK]

Clarice,
They are too busy singing Kumbayah to go now.

[narciso]

It's a distressing reality, considering that Cameron is unlikely to be an improvement. He seems one intent in selling out any remaining trace of Thatcherism, a pattern totally alien in this country (sarc)
With my favorite state GOP chair, moving on up (sarcasm doesn't quite cover that statement

BTW in the LUN, what was actually happening while the slander factory was going full bore yesterday on Memeorandum.

[Boatbuilder]

Sadly, PUK, you are right. I get no sense that Obama (or Brown, or anyone at this point) has a plan, or even a goal, in Afghanistan. I got a similar sense about Iraq, pre-surge--but in Afghanistan I don't see what a "surge" would accomplish.
I often stop conversations by expressing my belief that Iraq was (and is) a "successful" war--we have succeeded in clearing the ground for democratic principles to become accepted and even to flourish (maybe to early to tell). I don't see that happening in Afghanistan. And I don't see any will--presidential, political, or popular--to change that. The best to be said at this point is that our presence in Afghanistan may help to "hold the line." If we recognize that, it may be worthwhile. But staying there because we don't know what else to do is tragic and idiotic.

[Frau Sonntag]

How wonderful, narciso! I have never been around guns or hunting (only rats and cockroaches as an urban child), but I was so disgusted by the Democrat attacks on this aspect of American life that I joined the NRA and have remained a member since. What a natural visit for Sarah Palin; long may she inspire and shoot and fish and delight her supporters and confuse her detractors.

[Mark O]

I keep watching the Military Channel's color movies of D-Day hoping to catch a glimpse of my own dad who drove in with ammo a day or so after the initial invasion. In that segment they talk about bombing Germany until the will of the civilians to resist with armed combat would be extinguished.
They also talk about "overwhelming force."

Did those two ideas so fall out of favor in Viet Nam that here is no more possibility of winning a war? Must we engage in every battle with the least possible damage? It seems certain that we could use our considerable military might to extirpate the enemy. When we refuse so to do it make me wonder why we would sacrifice a single soldier to the expediency of contrary opinion. God help us.

[Danube of Thought]

Awfully sad commentary, PUK. A civilized nation should be very, very serious about a decision to send its young men to confront the hardest, most murderous scum on earth. To send them with anything less than the very finest preparation, training and equipment is just plain villainous.

God willing, some heads will roll. A pity that they can only do so figuratively.

[narciso]

Could it be, that we're jumping the gun, in 2006, after Franks and then Abizaid, it was almost certainty that there was a civil war, and Anbar province not to mention adjoining provinces were lost, that was at the beginning of the Anbar Awakening. I know it's different leadership at the top.
Maybe it's a vain hope I realize that.

[PaulL]

I'd have thought that the Taliban would have been so danged impressed by Obama's "Tally-bon" pronunciation that they would have just quit their lowdown ways.

[PeterUK]

DoT,
There has been much controversy about equipment see EUReferendum. Much putting the boot into the government by the military,who have in turn been worked over by analysts.
Worth a read on how no to do procurement.

[Ann]

Thanks to BR who linked the best article I read today: THE DESTRUCTION OF SARAH PALIN

I wish I could express how I feel about Palin that well.

[RichatUF]

DoT-

Richard North's (publisher of EU Referendum) book Ministry of Defeat gives the whole sorry tale.

[narciso]

The video version on PJTV, packs an even bigger punch

[Frau Sonntag]

Mark O -- The greatest generation gave way to the generation that considers the delta smelt (2-3 inches) more important than the entire economy of the state of California.

[Frau Sonntag]

Mark O -- The greatest generation gave way to the generation that considers the delta smelt (2-3 inches) to be more important than the economy of the state of California.

[narciso]

And in the hell froze over department, this bit that daddy will inform us of the
overnight thread, a little too late

[narciso]

I should clarify, I mean the subject of the LUN.

[narciso]

This was the PJTV segment I was referencing, in the LUN

[Jack is Back!]

Mark O,

Fortunately for Ike and his war command, strategy, tactics and RoE's (rules of engagement) were determined by them and not the JAG office. But then again we are fighting a very asymmetrical war in Afghanistan with a much more difficult terrain (much like Vietnam) where it is difficult to target purely military and infrastructure. Vietnam became a war fought over a lunch in the White House of Johnson. War plans and bombing plans were hatched not at the command level but at the political level. Imagine the lawyering and politics and PR that went into those plans.

Now, this is just my opinion, but for the UK parliament to start criticizing the war strategy, tactics and troop levels is a bit rich coming from a bunch of wankers who allowed their own troops to march off under equipped for such a war. This is more CYA than anything productive to a discussion on what next.

[PeterUK.]

JiB

Not only did they let them march off unprepared for the conflict,very few of these highly paid parasites actually turn up when there is a defence debate on.
Think,coming general election,as well as CYA. But there has been mission creep in Afghanistan,from taking out al Qaeda to pacifying all of the country.
One minister reckons you are in for a long haul. So do I,also the cost will be too high,in both blood and treasure.
There does need to be a political debate on what the campaign in Afghanistan is for,what are its objectives and whether those objectives are attainable.
It is worth noting that the vociferous ant-war left is now silent since Obama took possession of the war.

[Cecil Turner]

There does need to be a political debate on what the campaign in Afghanistan is for,what are its objectives and whether those objectives are attainable.

Absolutely. This whole exercise is a vivid reminder of the Cheshire Cat's advice: "If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there." But even so, at this point, the original mission actually seems more feasible. Now that the US Fourth Estate are mostly on board (by virtue of their Messiah's participation), the effectiveness of enemy propganda has diminished even as their battlefield efforts have met with more success.

I'd submit the most important goal remaining is to ensure the radicalists don't have a free hand in Afghanistan, a sanctuary, or anything they can call a major victory. And most of those considerations are determined more by efforts in Pakistan than anything else. But the biggest threat (radicalizing a significant slice of Muslims) is waning with the propaganda effort. Sure would be nice to see a plan for a desired end state, though.

[matt]

I might also remind the group that this is, as in the past, fighting season, It will die down again when the opium poppy crop needs harvesting and then the onset of winter. We can operate in that environment. It's much harder for the Taliban.

This was predicted by some in the military press, and with the build up in forces was inevitable. The kill ratio is still a lot more bad guys than good guys.For whatever reason, the military information network is still just as messed up as in 2004-2008 and they mangle the news. It takes a Ricks or Yon or another writer much longer to suss out the truth as a result. One of Bush's massive failures was his miscommunication and total lack of media manipulation.