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August 12, 2009


Ace Rothstein

Also dogfighting is mainly about gambling. This makes it a particularly unsavory hobby for a professional athlete, whereas hunting deer or ducks has nothing to do with gambling.

Cat Scratch Fever

"how many flying critters are shot out of the sky with rifles?'

Few, I would say, but many quail are shot-gunned as they emerge from their
cages. It's not clear how many actually, reach the sky. Perhaps Dick Cheney could
tell us

Cat Scratch Fever

Shot-gunning sky creatures...the sport of Kings.

Robert Baccalieri, Jr.

For a number of reasons you do not fire rifles in the air unless you are celebrating your birthday and your name is Hussein.

Even a .22 would travel a long way (a mile and a quarter I think it says on the .22 ammo box). Also birds on the wing are basically impossible to hit with a single projectile (the guy from the NYT probably learned about shooting from that movie with Angelina Jolie). So you use a shotgun to shoot birds whether they are ducks or doves or quail because you would inevitably miss with a rifle and could kill someone a mile away (eventually).

For some reason all this hunting talk reminded me of this deer-in-the-headlights.



All this stuff like hunting is so out of the range of experience of NY Times writers, they might as well be talking about, well, free markets and capitalism.


Rifle bullets go a long way so it's not a good idea to shoot up in the air.

Bird shot is not dangerous past 50 yards or less.

Turkey hunters often use 22 but are mostly shot on the ground or low level flight.

Hitting a quail, partridge or pheasant in flight is not easy. Of the birds released (hunting farms) to be hunted later in the day, most probably get away. The decent shots prefer real hunting.

Mike Myers

Cat Scratch Fever and William Rhoden were the gun bearers for Senator Jean Fraud Kerry on that goose hunting trip in Ohio. You remember when Kerry stepped up to the counter in his hunting camouflage suit and asked, "How do I get one of them thar one day huntin' licenses?" I'm surprised he didn't spit some terbaccy juice on the counter.

Of course a trip to the taxidermy shop was required to obtain the material for the obligatory "Senator Kerry comes back from a successful hunting day" photo op at the end of the afternoon. I'm surprised he didn't drop the dead birds because they were "oooohhhhh Icky!"

At least the photographers had the sense to put a shotgun instead of a rifle in his hand--for the photos at least.

Cat Scratch Fever

"The decent shots prefer real hunting."

I heard Cheney was a good shot, He got his friend in the face, didn't he?


Libs don't mind hunting if the target is right. I'll repeat the slogan I saw on the t-shirt of a local lib in the coffee shop the other day. Note how it also makes a statement about "true" patriotism as a bonus.

Hunt Republicans
with Dogs

Nice; urging citizens to commit violent acts of bodily harm against other citizens who differ from you politically. Ranks up there with the "Lobotomies for Republicans!" bumper sticker.


Well TM I don't know about shooting from the ground to the sky, but as for shooting from the sky to the ground to control our rampant wolf population, Pelosi just put in Legislation that I linked to a few days back to end that. Now we'll either have to try again unsuccessfully to control our rampant wolf population by shooting them from ground level, or better yet, by using rat poison, like the Sierra Club encouraged out on Rat Island Alaska., where all those endangered Bald Eagles and gulls perished from eating poisoned rats. I suppose the benefit of that is that it gives the critter a bit more time to review his former life passing in front of his eyes as he pukes his guts out, rather than inhumanely simply being instantly snuffed by a clean shot and missing the re-runs. Humanity at it's finest!


I heard Cheney was a good shot, He got his friend in the face, didn't he?

Obama hit any civilians with Predators lately?


Good time for a plug for the shotgun of JOM-cleaning scripts, now with fixes to make the Recent Comments links work (most of the time).


And TM, tying in your previous mysterious post on John Kerry, am I correct in recalling that the only Legislation he could point to as a sponsor in 30 years as a Senator was trying to making Jackie Robinson Day a Holiday? I'm a little foggy on that issue. Bean-towners, help us out here please.


At least Vick wasn't caught "cat juggling"


link doesn't work for me, bgates.

TM, I betcha the NYT' proof readers are too busy cleaning up the stuff of their crack reporter who wrote the Cronkite obit.


I am sure you mean Nick Kristof and not William (Nick) Kristo(l)f? On a related note, methinks Ross Douthat can't tell the difference between a 12 guage and a .22.

Captain Hate

The thought of Reporting-For-Doody doing salt of the earth guy type stuff is really humorous. Canada goose is great eating; far better than Lurch deserves.

Jim Miller

Rhoden can go wrong even on sports he is familiar with. For instance: I am still boggled by his arguments that the NBA should rig the system to help the Knicks.

I've seen two examples, here and here, and I wouldn't be surprised if there are others.

(Those who know more about the NBA than I do may want to comment on my suggestion that the Knicks needed to get rid of Isiah Thomas.)

Captain Hate

Those who know more about the NBA than I do may want to comment on my suggestion that the Knicks needed to get rid of Isiah Thomas.

Your suggestion was very well taken since the Knicks at least played enjoyable basketball under D'Antoni as they dug out from some of Zeke's horrendous personnel moves. Isaiah's post-playing career has been one embarrassment after another: Horrible television announcer, ran the CBA into bankruptcy, fired by Larry Bird (who's no post-playing genius himself) and running the Knicks into the ground and being guilty of sexual harassment along the way. He's presently coaching Florida International, which is barely Division 1 and about as low as you can go as an NBA HOFer. Maybe he can reassemble the shards of his reputation but if I was a betting person......


Canada goose is great eating
Is it? I've been thinking 'bout 'ringing one of their necks for the proverbial Xmas Goose but wasn't sure if it was worth the trouble. Of course, these are Caroloina geese now, as most haven't bothered with the return trip for generations.


While Vick is vile, he did serve his time - more than can be said for Ted Kennedy....his ethics have not kept him out of the Senate.

If allowed to return, he will be joining the many unsavory characters involved in professional sports these days. Wondering which team will take the dare...


Sorry, clarice. Typo.


Here it is.

Captain Hate

Strawman, the meat is all dark in color but very dry with a nice taste to it; not at all greasy/fatty like duck. Plus if you can get one without having to worry about chomping down on shot....

flodigarry, the bigger fool theory indicates that Vick will play in the enneffell except that his effectiveness had really trailed off in his latter seasons. He had been a genuinely exciting player early in his career but then things went south (Atlanta has always seemed like a cursed franchise). That plus his time away from the game and his atypical style as a QB would dictate he wouldn't play; on the other side of the coin: Al Davis, Dan Snyder, the Ford family......


begates. I'll give this some thought. I just uninstalled firefox because for some reason it seemed to be playing havoc with al the other installations on my computer, but thanks. I bookmarked it for later consideration.


OT, but they were talking on my local Fox/Clear Channel, how Vick got two years
for torturing dogs, etc, but Dante Stallworth got 24 days, for actually killing someone in an accident! what's up with that

Dave (in MA)


A "rifle", according to the LA Times.


I remember that cover, and the savaging that a Mrs. Slack on the L.A. Times got from readers here, and as far as Australia (on Tim Blair's blog) pointing out that is the right way to hold a shotgun

JM Hanes

Cat Scratch Fever:

Come back when Vick starts eating the losing dogs. Then we'll talk.

Captain Hate

what's up with that

Stallworth killing somebody happened as a result of a traffic accident. I'm not trying to excuse Stallworth, who had too much to drink, but the operative word is "accident". What Vick and his co-thugs did to a large number of animals (such as innocent dogs they got from the APL to use as bait for their pits; literally torn apart by their curs) is the type of stuff you associate with serial killers. I know he served his time blah blah blah but I barely consider him in possession of a soul. Maybe he has truly repented of what he did but I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him.


Not that I think our intrepid Mr. Rhoden knows one way or the other, but I've hunted quail with my .410, which is a rifle that fires bird shot.


When we went out to eat tonight, we drove by a veterinarian's, where I saw this on the establishment's sign:

Save the USA
Neuter Your Congressman

The people down here in Florida are fired up.

Tom Maguire

I am sure you mean Nick Kristof and not William (Nick) Kristo(l)f?

Thanks - I actually had a strong sense of brain-lock as I typed that, but shoved it aside and soldiered on.


Cat Scratch, most quail released for hunting are released well before a hunt.

I once shot in a pigeon shoot in which pigeons were released from boxes on command. It's like skeet shooting with live targets. I didn't care for it.

The quail that Cheney was hunting on that particular occasion when he accidentally shot his friend were wild ones, not that it really matters. I'm familiar with that ranch's quail habitat management, and I have friends who've hunted there. So you can't tell me different.

Shotguns are used for all of the above.


Having spent many an hour in a duck blind or walking a fence row for pheasants, with a Labrador retriever or two at my side, I find myself beyond irritated with Mr. Rhoden. Its obvious to me this man is clueless about hunting upland game birds or water fowl. It would be unsportsmanlike and dangerous (see above) to use anything but a shot gun to shoot either.

Most of the year I live in farming and ranching country. How many Americans have had the pleasure of watching calves being born (alittle uncomfortable trying to catch some sleep in a truck in February waiting for your cows to calve, but I digress), or helped out with cattle branding, or know how to butcher any of the food they eat?

And how disconnected from the natural world do you have to be to equate dog fighting with duck hunting? I sure hope Mr. Rhoden isn't confronted with the icky necessity of having to "blast an innocent animal with a rifle" in order to survive.

/rant off


Stallworth is on our team and as a Cleveland Browns fan we desperately need Vick. Just let him and Dante do community service at their local animal hospital.


Save the USA
Neuter Your Congressman

If that was the only way they screwed anybody, who could complain?

(Answer: jilted wives, staffers, an occasional waitress....)


I thought they used elephantine guns.


Why isn't the Newsweek cover "tol-o-gy" (instead of "tol-ogy")? Is it stylistic or are they simply untutored?

JM Hanes


You'd be amazed (or not!) at how many people think hamburger is a manufactured product.


If you look at what Vick actually did, its hard to conclude he is anything but a very sick individual. I mean mentally deranged.

He would be normally be characterized as a sadist, i.e. one who derives pleasure from others suffering.

Of course dogs do not have the legal standing of humans, but that does not make Vicks behavior any less sick.

Perhaps he'll meet some linebackers with similar disorders, but less restraint!


I have often hunted eagles with my .30-06. It's quite good sport, you know. I prefer to try and aim low, and often when I miss I bag a polar bear or baby seal. If they''re flying over water we'll occasionally get the odd whale.

We were hoping to go panda hunting with mortars in China later in the year, but they have reached their tag limit. But there's this guy who knows a guy....


as far as I know, a .410 is still a shotgun.It will fire slugs, but was designed more as a snake gun than anything else.

David B

Matt, you're an idiot. the history of the .410 is the use of a .41 caliber pistol cartridge, extended, to a .410 caliber shot shell. the long gun came next. It's certainly effective for snakes, but mostly it was a good rodent killer and introductory shot gun for youth. Plus, the .410 shell would fit conveniently into a .41 caliber handgun for dispatching game birds while driving a tractor; my grandfather used one to kill pheasants while harvesting corn rows in SD when I was just a boy. Hard on the rifling, though! I'm often amazed at how little folks understand the basics about woodsmanship and still try to draw conclusions about those of us "hicks". Most of these folks wouldn't last 20 minutes in the woods (wilderness). Comparing dog fighting with hunting is beyond the pale; no real woodsman would consider dog fighting an outdoor sport.

Tom DeGisi

Matt is not an idiot. For one thing, .410 shot shells fit in the same chamber as a .45 caliber Long Colt revolver cartriges, not a .41 caliber pistol cartrige. Wikipedia says "Some suspect that this shotgun arose from converted rifles of a similar bore diameter." I suspect you have overstated your case, David.


Cecil Turner

Dunno why the subject of chamber came up anyway. A standard .410 is a shotgun (no rifling), not "a rifle that fires bird shot." The fact that there are a few, mostly specialty, rifled weapons that are chambered for .45/.410 (or that you can jam a .410 into some [most?] long .45's) doesn't change the nature of the weapons that aren't. Now, if you're using a .410 shell in one of those guns with rifling, you'd in fact be firing a "rifle that fires bird shot" . . . but that isn't the usual event.

Back on Vick, while I don't condone dogfighting, it seems to me it's a whole 'nother league from killing humans. (And I think the Ray Lewis case is a better example, though his culpability was never proved.) I expect the morality of the NFL will not be significantly adversely affected by his return.

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