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August 29, 2009



I think the Q & A that begins with-

"It has been reported that you’re a paid adviser to the insurance giant UnitedHealth Group,'''

is a classic. Look how he deflects to Palin and Beck. I know that works on cable show watchers, maybe online, but in a newspaper interview?

Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet

I'm a bit conflicted:

On the one hand, I have had excellent (as in no hassles, no complaints) results with AARP's United Health Group Medicare supplemental insurance despite my need for extensive ($400k plus worth at the "rack rate") medical care in the past four years.

On the other hand, I loathe Tom Daschle's simpering manner and his toadying BS in favor of the myriad plans now known as Health Insurance Reform. Also, after reading HR3200, I am opposed to that vast majority of its provisions, because I think that it will not improve much and will cost taxpayers far more than any conceivable benefits it will engender.

I have a nagging hunch that United ultimately may be very interested in reducing its expenditures to insureds like me, and are seeking federal assistance to accomplish that goal.


Jim Rhoads:
I agree totally. This is starting to be the biggest government scam ever! Guilt people into agreeing to pass this boondogle of an unidentified bill is just grasping at straws. As a former majority leader he knows better than this. What happened to his previous comments about how the public option wouldn't pass? It's all smoke and mirrors and the classic shell game with these guys. They keep looking for another paddle to keep this turkey of a health plan afloat. They need to sit down and listen to the previously offered republican ideas and then work through a bipartisan solution.


Did I miss the part in the interview where health care reform is sensibly and clearly explained in a compelling fashion?

Or did Daschle just raise a tribute to Joseph Goebbels' concept that if you repeat a lie often enough the masses can be convinced?

One has to admire a man of principle!

Where is one?


Obama needs to stop lying about the health care plans being offered by the House and the one Senate committee. They're garbage and not worthy of his signature. he needs to lead on this issue and stop voting present.


Why would he start now, that would be out of character. But the tableau of a tax cheating lobbyist for insurance companies
should cause a synaptic misfire, but then again we're talking about the Times after all.

Stephanie "the Ice Pick"

ah... but to him they are what he wants to do.. funnel money to cronies and put the little folks further under the thumb of his power grab and open channels for political payback...

bad s##t

"Dems need better phrases."

Why not focus on better ideas? What idiots.


We wee'd up keeps getting brought up.

Is it some Indonesian slang, or sumpin?


"Dems need better phrases."

Why not focus on better ideas? What idiots.


the problem is that truthful phrases won't work for the dems.

and people now know the bill is a trojan horse for socialism.

it is what it is no matter what you call it.

like honest abe's ol' story about the tail of the dog:

he asks his son to tell him how many legs a dog has if you call his tail a leg.

his son says 5.

abe says wrong.

just because you call a tail leg doesn't make it a leg.

no matter what the dems call this bill or call public options or call co-ops the bill is what it is 1000 pages and a huge overhaul of 17% of our economy - a part of the economy most people are happy with.

need i remind everyone that health care is one of the bright spots on the economy: gr owing, hiring expanding.

if it ain't broke don't fix it.

the health care industry needs tinkering, not a transformational overhaul.

obamacare is too much change attempted in too fast a way ata time when most people have more pressing needs.

it won't lower costs or liabilities or cover everyone or make us healthier.

it's a huge defeat for dashle and teddy (RIP) and obama.

and a victory for the American people.


So good to see the "objective" Times offering up propaganda suggestions: "Medicare to BetterCare"


So I read through and um...yeah..Valerie Plame lied to cover for her inadequacies. Big time. Either that or she lied about everything and was caught, which makes sense, she realized her enquivies would become public knowledge.

All Valerie Plame did was cash in and did nothing for her country -- although I do thonght she collected a ton of hotel giveaways - like shampoo etc.


So, am I wrong?


"Hmm, what about "cui bono"? I may not be catching the spirit, here."

Since I didn't know what "cui bono" meant:

cui bono
One entry found
Etymology: Latin, to whose advantage?
Date: 1604
1 : a principle that probable responsibility for an act or event lies with one having something to gain
2 : usefulness or utility as a principle in estimating the value of an act or policy

Thanks for the continuing education TM.

Jack is Back!

Can I call Deborah Solomon a skank? I didn't think so. Instead I will call her the most promiscuous, overt, liberal sufferer of BDS in the press outside of the other 500 reporters at the Times and WaPo. I once did a survey of everyone of her interviews from 2002 to 2006 in the Sunday mag and she asked about Bush to everyone a total of 80% of the time. A lot of these people were either in the arts, culture, writing, film, etc. but deserving of black and white space to disparage on the POTUS. Didn't she get raked across the coals recently by the ombudsman about the editing of her interviews?


A new group,, has been formed which may interest JOM'ers.

Excerpt from 8-29-09 article by Jim Kouri:

"Former US Army Major General Paul Vallely has created an eGrassroots™ public policy research organization for the purpose of promoting dialogue -- and discipline -- of the principles found in the United States Constitution, Bill of Rights, Declaration of Independence and other Founding documents.

"With the growing discontent voters are experiencing with their elected leaders, more and more Americans are looking for direction in dealing with an out-of-control President, lawmakers and government bureaucrats. General Vallely, a decorated professional soldier, author (Blood for Our Future) and commentator, hopes to provide some of that direction."


I went to the site, it's still a little vague, but I applaud them for a good beginning.

My first item on the agenda would be:

Public outcry until all legislators are forced to read every single bill they vote on, out loud, recorded on video, so that voters can monitor them. And if they stumble on a single word, we'll know they don't understand what they're reading!


G'Morning you guys! Don't tell anyone but today is ELLIOTT'S BIRTHDAY!!!


G'morning, Jane. And happy birthday to Elliott!

Jane, did you read *mine to you and Soylent in another thread about how to get irrationals to realize their irrationality?

*top of pg 3 comments


--Ask the irrational person how to get an irrational person to see the difference between fact and opinion.

BR, you have discover Socratic dialog, where Socrates didn't respond with an answer, but with a question. An intellect is never taught; it can only be nudged to think for itself.

This is why teachers should go to college not to learn to teach, but to learn how people learn.

Melinda  Romanoff

Mornin' all!

And Happy Birthday Elliott!


So many threads . . .

So, I will repeat - Happy Birthday, Elliott with two t's!


What is topsecretk9 referring to @ 1:37?

hit and run

Yes, Happy Birthday Elliott!!!

(The Self-Toucher, according to the sopranos mob name generator)

Also born this day:

Huey Long
Fred MacMurray
Ted Williams
Warren Buffett (another "two 't'er")
Molly Ivins
Cameron Diaz
Andy Roddick

But Elliott is my favorite!


"Happy Birthday, Elliott with two t's!"

For his birthday we could give him a third "t".

Happy Birthday, Elliottt!

Cecil Turner
I think the more we can bring everybody to an understanding about how this in many respects is the civil rights battle of the early part of this century . . .
All you hicks that oppose us are RAAACIIIIST! Right. Glad we got that out of our system. And check out the hard-hitting journalism at the end of the piece (asking about the time after he admitted not paying $140,000 in taxes):
What helped you get through that period?
Oooh, that was human interest, right? Hey Deb, how about this for an alternate question, on the off chance your readers want to know something about, you know, health care:
How do you think the nation should pay for the latest open-ended trillion-dollar-startup Dem entitlement program, and isn't it just a little harder when people don't bother to pay their taxes?
Yeah, like that's ever gonna happen.

how this in many respects is the civil rights battle of the early part of this century

We already had the civil rights battle in the early part of this century, and it shared some features with the last one:
-a Republican President called out the National Guard
-Democrats tried to demagogue the effort
-millions of people got to vote for the first time

Of course as time went on, it became clear that the newly enfranchised were making poor decisions wrt their representatives, but all agreed that they were better off than they had been under the old regime (almost all - the Bull Connor/Michael Moore Democrats kept insisting that blacks/Arabs were happier picking cotton/flying kites back in the old days).

Captain Hate

Just saw the Cheney interview on FNS; nothing particularly surprising there but nice to see him on his gorgeous Wyoming spread. Glad to see Chris Wallace not backing down from his criticism of last week's VA booklet segment in which a VA rep was lying through her teeth on the use of it, all of which was refuted in today's revisit of it. Maybe it's starting to dawn on Chris that the opposition (who his commie old man tirelessly shilled for) doesn't play by the rules and needs to be smacked in the chops at every opportunity.

Happy birthday, Elliott, you youngster.


Happy Birthday, Elliott! Hope it is a splendid day.



I did see it, but I didn't get it until sbw's clarification. I was a huge fan of Socrates back in the day - I'm not sure it will work on Dick tho. He's too busy reciting slogans.


Socratic dialogue, only works when one is seeking the truth, sbw, I think that Maguire
must have had some legal training. I think Socrates encountered the early model of trolls, they were called Sophists, any argument, in the "Monty Python" sense of the word, would do.

Jim Ryan


47% Approve
52% Disapprove
42% Strongly Disapprove
-10 index


Anyone else think Liz Cheney is as good as Dick Cheney?

Rob Crawford

how this in many respects is the civil rights battle of the early part of this century

Amazing how often the a civil rights question boils down to whether it's moral to force someone to work for your benefit. What a pity that "health care reform" falls solidly on the wrong side of that question.


--Anyone else think Liz Cheney is as good as Dick Cheney?--

She's better. She's young (definitely), has a healthy ticker (presumably) and is even more plain spoken (excellently).

And Happy B-day to Elliot(t)[t], no matter how it's spelled.


Although a huge fan of Dick Cheney, I have to agree with all of the points made by Ignatz re: Liz Cheney.

She got all the best genes from Mom and Dad!


Wow, Jim Ryan, I think 47% matches the all-time low approval. Guess the whole "Pass ObamaCare for Teddy!" thing isn't going over too well.


--I think the more we can bring everybody to an understanding about how this in many respects is the civil rights battle of the early part of this century....--

Didn't little Tommy just throw the GLB&T contingent under the bus?

Their heroic struggle isn't through until we have the first president who enters office with a tallywhacker and leaves without one, is it?


Also from Rasmussen:

"If Americans could vote to keep or replace the entire Congress, 57% would throw out all the legislators and start over again. Just 25% would vote to keep the Congress."


"If Americans could vote to keep or replace the entire Congress, 57% would throw out all the legislators and start over again. Just 25% would vote to keep the Congress."

One Caveat.

They can never again work in American Politics, anywhere.

No think tanks, no lobbying, no "Charitable Foundations" nothing, nada, zilch, gone from the public landscape. The shelf life of American politicians has become much too long. Let them go home and start a shoe store. Oh, and no more lawyers in Congress, period.

Captain Hate

Count me in on the praise for Liz Cheney; in fact she and Sarah are the two conservatives that give me the most hope for the future, which is a sad commentary on the, with few exceptions, gelded males that graze in the ReSteelican party.

Lollerz on the MSM being wildly wrong on the public's reaction to the death of fat boy and the impact on ObamaDontCare; I think that's an example of not thinking outside of a bubble, or some phrase I heard recently.

Cecil Turner

Guess the whole "Pass ObamaCare for Teddy!" thing isn't going over too well.

Yeah, wonder why? After all the rational arguments like "your objections are lies, distortions, and fear mongering," you'd think that'd be a shoo-in.

Jim Ryan

Idle questions:

Has a president ever gotten so bad that his entry into the House to deliver the State of the Union was greeted with what was termed "polite applause"?

Who could be the right VP nom for Sarah, besides Liz C.?


Michelle Bachman isn't bad, either!

From enemies domestic, maybe it's the women who'll save us this time.


Hey Captain - happy anniversary!


Happy Birthday Elliott. Many happy returns.

Obama is pulling a -10, while on vacation? Can't wait to see what his numbers will look like once he sends his brownshirts in Organizing for Against America to go door-to-door. Insty had a report from Denver (Charlie, where were you?) one of their better efforts. [Complete with an Obama festooned bus, sign in sheets, greenshirts pushing out dissenters, and flown-in "handmade" signs. Creepy.]


Hummm...seems I forgot something...

once he sends his brownshirts...

once he sends his browngreenshirts...the favored color of earth worshipers and rock worshipers everywhere.

Captain Hate

Thanks Jane; shortly we'll be going out for a cemetery scavenger hunt, which should be a good way to remember this year's celebration.


Oh dear Cap'n, that's a bit macabre.

Jim Ryan

Can you imagine the mind of the "Strongly Approve"? How can a country survive with 1/3 of its population of a mind to approve strongly of a performance like O's?

Captain Hate

Mrs Hate is a photographer and has taken part for the last two years in a show put on by some local cemetery art group, which is sponsoring the event. We won't be looking for Ted Kennedy's soul, I assume....


That link to the Denver astroturf event was excellent, Rich. I liked the UPS shipping label on the signs, not to mention the bus at the end.

Captain Hate

Jim, one third sounds about right to me. Leaving aside that you can have political differences between equally intelligent people, there have to be a large number of people that only get their news information from the MSM shills. Or that don't pay attention to politics at all.


Can you imagine the mind of the "Strongly Approve"? How can a country survive with 1/3 of its population of a mind to approve strongly of a performance like O's?

Which makes a revolution, peaceful at the ballot box, or otherwise, problematic, if you want it to last.


cui bono? The same insiders as always, of course. Now we have the spectacle of Orrin Hatch and Chris Dodd nominating Teddy's widow as his replacement in that hallowed Washington tradition. LUN.

and happy birthday to you, Eliot. Many happy returns.

Jack is Back!

Mohammed's birthday? How appropriate since today's gospel is Mark 7:1-6 in which Jesus basically nullify's kosher law and makes bacon natures most important gift to culinary delight. Those darn pharisee's never enjoyed the most succulent and aromatic of meats. Which brings me to a loud thought I had looking at the Times front page picture of the Kennedy funeral - how come he gets a Catholic mass? He was divorced (but later canonically annulled?) and he supported abortion rights. How come he gets a free ride? I guess B.S. walks and money talks even in my own church. Pretty sad. Also, gets burial at Arlington even though the USSR considered him a useful idiot they could somehow use to help foster his own political ambition. Corruption is everywhere these days.

OT: He has always been an over-the-top America basher but if you are willing to gnash your teeth read Clarkson at LUN.


When proponents tout "Kennedy Care" we subliminally hear "Kopeckne Care."

They tell us to shut up and get in the car; that we're going for a ride whether we want to or not.

We are all Mary Jo.

Stephanie "the Ice Pick"

Wouldn't find it if you were...

Happy Birthday, Elliotttttt....

Just in case he gets all "tee-teed" up.


I topped out near a hundred cylinders.

Yeah, willem, and too late to cash in our Olds clunker.

Stephanie "the Ice Pick"

We won't be looking for Ted Kennedy's soul, I assume....

Wouldn't find it if you were...

That was weird, kilt the whole html thinger... now it makes sense.

Jim Ryan

Harry: "I hope you go out of business." Small man, big mouth. He has to go.

Jim Ryan

Harry buh-bye?

Charlie (Colorado)

(Charlie, where were you?)

Sadly, I've now got so much writing work that I dont' see all these things. (Sadly except for the part about making a living after a pretty constrained year.)

I'm sorry I missed that one, though, as I would have liked to ask Ed about the petitions myself. I may put on my PJM hat tomorrow and call him.


They tell us to shut up and get in the car; that we're going for a ride whether we want to or not.

We are all Mary Jo.

That was just wonderful.


Jane, Melinda, BR, Centralcal, Hit and Run, Boris, Captain Hate, Porchlight, Ignatz, RichatUF, Matt, and Stephanie:

Thank you, thank you, thank you. It surely will be an excellent day.

CH, happy anniversary!


Elliott, happy birthday!

Cap'n: Happy anniversary!


Hey Harry

Looks to me like its you going out of the Majority Leader business from where I sit. Your constituents give you a 50% disapproval versus a 37% approval rating. For a multiple term incumbent, that is so lousy that if you had any decency, you would apologize to the voters and then commit haiku in private.


" in which Jesus basically nullify's kosher law and makes bacon natures most important gift to culinary delight. Those darn pharisee's never enjoyed the most succulent and aromatic of meats"

Interesting how different foods in different cultures become taboo or treasured. It's always interested me how important pork is to the Polynesian cultures (very important in all their big luau's/religious feasts etc, and how it is such an important staple in Chinese culture, yet apparently because of God's proscriptions (or trichynosis, etc) it is so heavily taboo in the Middle Eastern Biblical Cultures.


Thanks, PD.

The Birthday Fairy will probably be infuriated, but I am now off to put myself into a food coma.

Jack is Back!

Tiger is in New Jersey, exit 11 and has just teed off. Hit the first fairway and is only 5 out.

Cheney is in Wyoming overlooking the Tetons, staying focused on keeping America safe but can do nothing about Glenn Greenwald. Which proves you can never be 100% right but you do your best.

Where is Obama? Wherever it is does Michelle still have a headache from hitting her head on the AF1 door jamb? Where are the President Ford comparable jokes? I blame Bush. He was short and they lowered the door height for him and being racists right-wing air force types left it like it is - hee, hee, hee!

Where is Albert Haynesworth today? Belichick says that Brady is suffering the typical "bumps and bruises" of any game. Un huh, and Ted Kennedy just suffered a normal headache and is sleeping it off.


Oh Oh looks like the Times of London has decided to play pin the tail on the jackass, and the winner is Gordo:

Gordon Brown’s government made the decision after discussions between Libya and BP over a multi-million-pound oil exploration deal had hit difficulties. These were resolved soon afterwards.

I hope at least they made BP buy some carbon credits, sheesh.

Jim Ryan

Corzine buh-bye?


Downtrodden? DOWNTRODDEN?

The downtrodden, (legal, illegal and extralegal), already have better health care than I do.


One wonders did they end up working the deal with Musa Kusa, did the nuclear program revelations, obscure all
considerations of justice.


The downtrodden, (legal, illegal and extralegal), already have better health care than I do.

That's true.


OT - There is a terrible fire spreading here in So. Calif. It began as a relatively small blaze of about 1,200 acres on Wednesday and was named the Station Fire. As of this morning, the fire has covered over 35,000 acres.

We received an order late Thursday night (via a reverse 911 call) to pack up the cars and be prepared to leave if ordered to evacuate. So far, the fire has remained north of the 210 freeway. We're just hoping that the wind doesn't pick up and change the course of the fire.

It was eerie to watch the entire Angeles Crest on fire last night from our patio. The air is dreadful to breathe. You can see a picture of what that looks like (LUN). The image is taken from the Mt. Wilson 150-Foot Solar Tower. It refreshes the image every 2 minutes.

The Birthday Fairy

I highly approve of food comas!

Frau Gratuliere

Best wishes to the Birthday Kid and Captain Anniversary. It's rude to ask age, but we can certain inquire about the years of marital (not martial) bliss.

BTW - Food comas have no calories of any kind.


Barbara - stay safe!

Happy Anniversary Cap'n.

I hope Dingy Harry, Babs the Boxer, and Nancy Botoxalot all get the boot!



Congratulations on getting the writing work. Can't get to all the events.

Captain Hate-Happy Anniversary.


I'm outraged, but Obama was at the same G20 conference and embraced Qaddafi just as warmly (actually more warmly as Obama had a big smile on his face when he gave Qaddafi a hug, probably shared a quiet moment about their mutual friend Rev. Wright). If Obama hadn't released Ughiers to Bermuda and over one hundred terrorists captured in Iraq back to Iran (to get an American born, but Iranian resident, journalist released), I'm sure the Obama Administration could have had some sway with the British Government. Actually, I wouldn't be all that surprised to find out that the Obama Administration is exploiting the outrage and knew long ago that the Brits were going to release him and maybe even gave the deal a wink-and-a-nod.

Jack is Back!

Stay safe, Barbara and all those tax-suffering people in California.

OT: How about them 'Gators? Everyone has them No. 1 except the big, bad NY Times who has Texas No. 1. That's okay by us down here in "crackerville" since the NY Times is No. 2 behind the Wall St. Journal. But at least the Times recognizes Tim Tebow as possibly the greatest college football player ever. I say only if they repeat as national champs and then he is in Thomas Jefferson dining alone company. According to Mark Humphrey at AP, before Tebow only Doc Blanchard (Army) and Matt Leinart (USC) were the only players to enter their senior season with a Heisman and 2 national championships. Both of their teams finished second in the polls that year.

Read the Times about Tebow's missionary work and what he wants to accomplish in life - pro ball is only the means to the end. Inspiring stuff. A pity he was born in the Philippines since he can't run for POTUS, of could he?


Jack, he was born to American citizens, wasn't he? I'd think he would have more trouble via the fact that he was carried to term after his mother's doctors recommended aborting for her health. That makes his existence something of a provocation in some quarters.

Happy birthday, Elliott!

Dave in OC


I think I know what it's like there. We are roughly in the middle of Anaheim Hills and went through that last year in November. My brother was down for a few days and on Saturday we went to Oak Glen and saw the fire start about 9:30 at Green River. When we came back we had to go across the 10 to the 605 as the two fires had merged in Brea and the 57 was shut down. We've had smoke here before but that was really something.

At about 5 PM we went to see if we could fill up and the fire had jumped the 91 freeway coming south. We could see dozens of fires in the hills of Yorba Linda and assumed each was a structure. We had the portable safe and bags by the front door. Fortunately although there were about 50 apartment units and 15 homes lost in AH we didn't get the worst of it, YL and Brea did as I'm sure you remember.

So we'll pray for you and hope you will reciprocate when the next one hits the SW corner of the toll road and 91 (never burned - the other 3 corner have) and we get all smokey and worried again.

Stay safe and remember the pets and meds!

PS - You'll know it's close when they pre-position fire trucks in you neighborhood.


I say YES to Tim Tebow.


Centralcal, Jack and Dave in OC,

Thank you for your comments and especially your prayers.

According to a blog we've been watching, "it is clear that the Station Fire has begun it's big move for today with pyrocumulus "capping out" regularly breaking out over many different sections of its perimeter and it's not even noon yet."

The same thing happened yesterday. I've learned that when a fire "caps out" the large plumes of smoke - some as high as 20,000 feet - collapse in on themselves and spread the fire in all directions. So far, no wind, but they are expecting some this afternoon perhaps as high as 30 - 40 mph. I sure hope not.

Thanks for the tip, Dave. If we see any engines in this area, we will leave.


OT:The Pakistan High Court has removed all restrictions on AQ Khan's movement.
Can't wait for Obama to muscle the govt to ignore this directive or face American wrath.

Elliott, happy birthday!

Cap'n: Happy anniversary!


Is anyone watching golf? What's that island in the water with all those buildings on it?

Stephanie "the Ice Pick"

Captain: Happy anniversary!

bad s##t

Happy Anniversary, Captain. Mr. bad and I love much history.

bad s##t

Stay safe, Barbara. You are in our prayers.


Clarice is back! Was starting to wonder where you had run off to.


Oh my goodness, it was the statue of Liberty, I only saw the brick building.


CC--I was at my 50th HS reunion!

Jack is Back!


You mean The Big McIntosh? Or the one closer and more important - Ellis Island. Steve Stricker has the bit in his mouth and is a putting genius. His to lose. Tiger has to drive 16 and make eagle to have any chance. Of course what do I know, I had a two footer yesterday for a 79 and missed it by a mile.


Cash for Clunkers update, FWIW. Friend who is a sales manager for the local Ford Dealership came by yesterday, and we got to visit a little bit. He says it's dead, absolutely dead. One customer Friday, all day. No customers Saturday. It was so dead he detailed his expedition in the shop. They wound up taking off 2 hours early. PLUS, they still haven't gotten their money from Cash for Clunkers. What a FUBAR situation.


Hey, how was the reunion, there was supposed
to be a 20th for my high school, butnothing really came of it

Jack is Back!

Told you. I know nothing. Uh oh, Slocum missed his putt and Stricker is 2 feet to the lead and Tiger has close to 20 feet - my money is still on Stricker. Can that guy putt or what?

Jane, those buildings are actually a mirage. They are merely double fronts for movie sets. Ever seen Godzilla eats New York?

hit and run

How did Tiger miss that putt on 18.

Stricker in the fairway bunker. How close is he to the lip?


Jack is Back!

Oh my God, Tiger missed his putt on 18 to tie.

I blame Bush and he isn't to blame I blame AGW if only Al Gore agrees. If he doesn't then its those nefarious golf course architects, Tom Kite and Bob Cupp who made those greens more bumpy than the moguls at Alta.

Just now Stricker and Slocum, with the lead in hand, decided to visit the fairway bunkers on a 500+ yard par 4 finishing hole. That almost assures a play off between Stricker, Slocum, Tiger and Paddy. What a great tournament. More later - back to the telly.

hit and run

"Drive for show and putt for dough" just got kicked in the nuts as a pithy golf saying.

hit and run

That almost assures a play off between Stricker, Slocum, Tiger and Paddy.

And Ernie, right?

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