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August 15, 2009

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centralcal

Interesting article. The hopenchange crowd seem to have lost the fire in the belly.

I hope that is happening everywhere!

hit and run

The fierce urgency of now oh, look a squirrel

Neo

Because Republican Astroturfers have joined the ...

Some day Democrats are going to wake up to the fact that they (and the Republicans) are outnumbered by independents.

I believe that day will be accompanied by a refrain from the other end of Pennsylvania Ave of "We Won".

Porchlight

Poor Jeff Zeleny, he had to go to Iowa. And it's not even primary season!

(Actually I love Iowa, but I'm guessing Jeff doesn't find it as wonderful as I do.)

hit and run

Here's something fun, http://www.barackobama.com/2008/01/03/remarks_of_senator_barack_obam_39.php>Obama's victory speech after winning the Iowa caucuses.

I'll be a President who finally makes health care affordable and available to every single American the same way I expanded health care in Illinois - by--by bringing Democrats and Republicans together to get the job done.

MayBee

Funny hit. I sure don't hear him using his success in Illinois as an example now. No proposal to do on a nationwide basis whatever it was that expanded health care there.

hit and run

Obama in Iowa, January 2008:

Tonight, we are one step closer to that vision of America because of what you did here in Iowa. And so I'd especially like to thank the organizers and the precinct captains; the volunteers and the staff who made this all possible.

That was then, you know, Iowa as the central front in the war on cynicism.

But this is now, where Obama volunteer Ms. Adkins says:

Most people, when they get to Nov. 5, put their political hat away and it doesn’t come out for three years.”

Now considered useless, since there is no election to win and because Iowans have better things to do than sit in someone else's living room dialing strangers to convince them that they are a drag on the health care system and should forego expensive medical treatments*, lefties put away their gracious, "thanks for voting for hope and change" hat, donning instead the, "what a bunch of flyover incest-loving mouth breathers" hat for the next three years.

------------
*I'm speculating on the actual content of the calls they were supposed to make. But since the article mentioned "drumming up support for [Obama's] agenda", I think "we are the death panels we've been waiting for" is fair enough.

Lesley

Potluck supper?

How dangerous. Will there be an inspector from the Iowa Department of Health & Food Safety present?

One of my last interactions with the public schools occurred when bringing Halloween treats for 2nd graders and being told my food unacceptable because it was "home made" and might contain botulism or sumpthin. As I passed out my arched-back-hissing cat cookies (from a Hallmark cookie cutter, natch) WHICH I'D SPENT HOURS GHOULISHLY CREATING, I turned to my tormentress and told her that if the kids got sick at least they'd know who to sue.

Porchlight

Awesome, Lesley. Wish I could have been a fly on the wall for that exchange.

I bet those cookies were scrumptious, too.

Original MikeS

... the Administration won't even be specific...

'Cause a large part of the Administration's plan is about political payoffs and favors for special interest groups. (Obama calls them 'stakeholders.')

Unfortunately the graft and corruption is the 'good' part of the plan. We know that the part of the plan that has to do with health-care, is not about "Vague promises of savings from cutting waste, enhancing prevention and wellness, installing electronic medical records and improving quality..." Those are mere "lipstick" measures according to Presidential Adviser Ezekiel Emanual.

The main thrust of the medical portion of the plan is to achieve savings by rationing medical treatment. This is not particularly shocking. Private insurance companies all employ some rationing, but Obama thinks the government can do it better, more efficiently, and save a lot more money than the private insurance companies do.

Obama supporters wonder why people think the government might make rationing decisions that are worse than the ones made by private companies. Obama tries to reassure people by saying these decisions will be removed from "politics." I'm not sure what that means, but it sounds like I won't be asked whether I'm a Republican or a Democrat before decisions are made about my treatment.

To my mind, those who would be in charge of the new government medical decisions have already made their first 'rationing' decision. They have decided to take tort reform off the table. They won't discuss it. They pretend it is not even an issue. There will be no rationing or restrictions placed on the size of medical malpractice awards. (these impose huge direct costs and even larger indirect costs on all medical care in America). Of course this decision will require more rationing of actual medical treatments.

At least the trial lawyers can rest easy.

Porchlight

Please forgive my posting on multiple threads:

Rasmussen: 54% Say Passing No Healthcare Reform Better Than Passing Congressional Plan

Considering the Dem spin is that "only the naysaying status quo-loving GOP says doing nothing would be better than passing ObamaCare," I'd say this is pretty significant.

Oh, and Ras also has Obama at -8, 48-52, same as yesterday I think.

Lesley

Porchlight, that's the nutty thing. These progs think nothing of hosting a salmonella salad supper and yet scream about safety at every turn. BTW, I'm not against food safety but common sense should prevail.

My husband agreed with me, although he probably trebled our personal liability policy given my, ah, assertiveness. In any event, the next fall we enrolled the kids in Christian school where all I did for the next sixteen years was cook stuff and eat stuff that other people had cooked. Ofcourse, we always prayed over it. I think that must have done the trick. ::Sue grin::

lou

Very Easy everyone Keeps same healthcare send all the poor to the County Hospitales with Medical

Porchlight

BTW, I'm not against food safety but common sense should prevail.

My view as well. I've come to the conclusion over time that some people just looovvveee rules, and looovvvveee following them and forcing others to follow them.

Also glossy magazines are the worst for selling people on the next thing they need to be afraid of.

Potluck is one of my favorite things in the world. I bet the praying does the trick too. :)

hit and run

Wait, did I say our betters on the left considered people like those in say Iowa, but especially the protesters unwilling to face up to the fact that Obama is infallible are flyover trash to be mocked, rather than listened to?

Now, come on, I just made that up, didn't I?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/13/AR2009081304158.html?hpid=topnews>Of course not.

...when the sole reason for attending is to shout down one's congressman like a peevish teenager in the midst of a hormonal rage?
...
In the meantime, however, the ugly-American images coming out of these town hall shouting matches resonate in a way that does the nation no favors. It highlights the obvious disconnect between the politicians and the people they represent. The photographs do particular damage to the protesters who aim to make a convincing argument that their position is both logical and righteous. But it is hard to have faith in the cool syllogism of someone whose face is scrunched into a road map of rage.

By and large, the shouters are dressed in a way that underscores their Average Guy -- or Gal -- bona fides. They are wearing T-shirts, baseball caps, promotional polo shirts and sundresses with bra straps sliding down their arm. They wear fuchsia bandannas and American-flag hankies wrapped around their skulls like sweatbands. A lot of them look as though they could be attending a sporting event and, as it turns out, the congressman is the opposing player they have decided to heckle. If not for the prohibition on signs and banners inside these meetings, one could well expect to see some of these volatile worker bees wearing face paint and foam fingers, albeit the highlighted digit would be one expressing foul displeasure rather than competitive rank or skill level.

glasater

Drudge is tweeting:

AKPD and GMMB received $12 million in advertising business from Healthy Economy Now.

two firms that received $343.3 million to handle advertising for Barack Obama’s White House run last year have profited from his top priority as president by taking on his push for health-care overhaul.

What I'd like to know is who is paying for those Zero ads running all the time on Fox News and elsewhere.

LUN

JM Hanes

hit:

I love that quote from Obama. I'm trying to remember if any of those model clinics Obama cites are in Illinois. It seems we've got FedEx vs the Post Office, Mayo Clinic vs the VA -- and the most gifted politician in America EVAH who thinks he can sell us the government run option. When he talks public private partnerships; I think shotgun weddings. With Obama holding the (metaphorical) shotgun, of course. I read that the Prez went fishing with Ba'ab Ghibz yesterday, but perhaps that was a metaphorical expedition too. I haven't seen any pix yet, have you?

Scott

Is this the hope and change we wanted??

Congratulations, comrades...

hit and run

I haven't seen any pix yet, have you?

Tapper said there wouldn't be any pix released.

I heard it's because he's fishing with nekkid women and you can see them in the reflection in his sunglasses.

Ranger

Well, over at TalkLeft they read the same NYT bit and finally admitted that last year wasn't about politics or policy, it was all about Obama:

For these folks, it was about Obama, not the issues. To get them reengaged (indeed, to get the Media back on his side), Obama needs to make health care reform about Obama.

But all of those who said Obama was creating a creepy cult of personality about himself were called crazy back then.


hit and run

Me:
Here's something fun, Obama's victory speech after winning the Iowa caucuses.

In the "I hope it's not too late" department, I should point out that the link to the Iowa victory speech above is to barackobama.com

I'm afraid if you click on it, you might end up on David Axelrod's email distribution list. And I still fear that, once on it, if you try and remove yourself from it, you move from the distribution list to the retribution list.

Viewer

Mike S: "To my mind, those who would be in charge of the new government medical decisions have already made their first 'rationing' decision. They have decided to take tort reform off the table. They won't discuss it. They pretend it is not even an issue. There will be no rationing or restrictions placed on the size of medical malpractice awards. (these impose huge direct costs and even larger indirect costs on all medical care in America). Of course this decision will require more rationing of actual medical treatments.

At least the trial lawyers can rest easy."

Tort reform as an 'issue' has been way overblown--THAT'S why it's not an issue now.
I wouldn't underestimate the fire of those who supported Obama--we don't do things in the same ignorant, NUTBALL way you do, but it doesn't mean 'fatigue.' This opera won't be over until it's over. The low information far right has a creepy cult of multiple *personalities* which is driving the fake appearance of 'opposition.' The corporate health care status quo offers us essentially the same CRAP SANDWICHES. Maybe you like the taste--gorge yourselves--but millions of us don't!

Porchlight

The low information far right has a creepy cult of multiple *personalities* which is driving the fake appearance of 'opposition.'

Doesn't look like fake opposition to me. Looks like, solid, real, majority of the American people opposition, as confirmed by multiple polls.

boris

"the same ignorant, NUTBALL way you do ... This opera won't be over until it's over. The low information far right has a creepy cult of multiple *personalities*"

Certainly nobody would be concerned if someone like this were in charge of an "End Of Life" advisory panel rationing clarifying our health care options.

Ignatz

Way to marshal your facts and present them in a cogent, convincing manner viewer.
You and your buds just keep on telling the majority of people who oppose your savior's plans that they're all just ignorant nutballs. It's working great so far; the more you insult, the lower you sink.

ben

"Obama needs to make health care reform about Obama."

Lightning doesn't strike twice and you can't always repeat the Kool-aid formula.

ben

"Tort reform as an 'issue' has been way overblown--THAT'S why it's not an issue now."

Who said it was overblown? Are you a trial lawyer?

If you are, you position is understandable. If you aren't, you have been suckered big time.

ben

" The corporate health care status quo offers us essentially the same CRAP SANDWICHES."

Hey did you clear that with Michelle Malkin???...I think she had the copyright on Crap Sandwiches in describing the stimulus and other administration boondoggles.

But good for you for reading her posts.

bio mom

I thought Obama had a fit when Jim DeMint suggested making the healthcare debate a defeat for Obama. So now the left WANTS it to be about him??

Viewer

YOU people are making it about Obama! You didn't care about deficits, astroweed tea bagging and protests when Bush was in office, but under Obama you're all bent out of shape about it. You didn't care about so-called 'death panels' when the majority of Republicans voted in support of essentially the same thing in 2003, but now under Obama low information conservatives are convinced granny is going to end up as Soylent Green (why don't wingnuts care that much about GRAMPA?!!!!!!) You people have a very peculiar thing about Obama, firsty as a Democrat, then as a moderate liberal, and lastly as an African American. Which one of you kooks hung the effigy of Obama from a rope on porch in my neighborhood last summer?

hit and run

Viewer:
The low information far right has a creepy cult of multiple *personalities* which is driving the fake appearance of 'opposition.'

Ignatz:
You and your buds just keep on telling the majority of people who oppose your savior's plans that they're all just ignorant nutballs. It's working great so far; the more you insult, the lower you sink.

Again, I don't credit Andrew Breitbart's theory that the GOP has *deliberately* orchestrated the situation in which Republicans have no central leader.

But it's hard to deny that not having one is really gumming up the left's beloved Alinsky 'personalize the target' method of attack.

JM Hanes

MayBee! I've been missing you!

hit:

I don't think syllogism means whatever Givhan thinks it means, do you? That column was so remarkably silly and pretentious, though, that it was almost worth a thorough Fisking. Poor Givhan -- how could she possibly choose just one, when so many great metaphors seemed to write themselves?

OTOH, a "peevish teenager in the midst of a hormonal rage" is not exactly your little black dress awaiting further adornment. Sporting peevishness and rage is more like wearing a left footed flip-flop with a spike heel on the right. Best to keep on shopping and see what "someone whose face is scrunched into a road map of rage," looks like in the mirror.

In the midst of deconstructing the dress code ("What does one wear to a town hall meeting on health care...?), Givhan's most telling snippet was this: "For anyone who has ever been in relationships with shouters..." Because we've all been in relationships with shouters, haven't we? Who among us but those volatile worker bees with American-flag hankies wrapped around their skulls like sweatbands wouldn't prefer a bean counter in authoritarian regalia who radiates the exaggerated serenity of Nurse Ratched?

Cecil Turner

YOU people are making it about Obama! You didn't care about deficits, astroweed tea bagging and protests when Bush was in office, but under Obama you're all bent out of shape about it.

Yeah, Bush's deficits were so much bigger than Obama's, too, which shows the height of the hypocrisy. Oh, wait, Obama's is four times as big as Bush's? Er, never mind.

Dude, do yourself a favor and give the "hypocrisy" talking point a rest. Nobody has ever spent like this President/Congress, and any comparison with any other supposed "drunken sailors" just shows how utterly irresponsible this level of spending is.

Pofarmer

You didn't care about deficits, astroweed tea bagging and protests when Bush was in office, but under Obama you're all bent out of shape about it.

If you search the Archives here, I think you'll find plenty of posts complaining about Bush's deficits, which conincidentally, didn't really ramp up till after that 2006 election thingy. The tea partying really didn't come into vogue untill a certain exhalted Presidential presence decided to run a TWO TRILLION dollar deficit. You might compare this to all 8 years under the previous administration, if you'd like. Same with the Protests. I don't recall Bush trying to take over 20 odd Percent of the U.S. economy, after already pummeling the banking sector and taking over 2/3 of the Domestic auto industry. I mean, really, what's there to protest?

narciso

No, I think the problem is more fundamental than that. Obama got everything he wanted with the stimulus, and it plum hasn'tworked,
they had to recalibrate the figures to make that 9.4 % unemployment number look real . Yet another bank, Colonial went belly up, and that's nowhere near the end of it. The Chinese are balking at buying anymore of our debt. They've been caught in a rhetorical 'quagmire', facing the 'dead enders' that proved to be more formidable
than they thought.

Fresh Air

Oh these Mediacrat chumps are so flummoxed when protests happen to the wrong people. How dare they! They don't even do good paper mache!

Eat it, asshats.

hit and run

You're exactly right JMH. The article was mind-boggling silly.

But really, Iyou had to figure since it was Givhan, that would be a given.

Still, a good effort on her part to exceed her usual standards.

Fresh Air

Cecil--

I don't think that particular troll is going to earn is $15 this afternoon. Will he have to go back on unemployment?

hit and run

narciso:
They've been caught in a rhetorical 'quagmire', facing the 'dead enders' that proved to be more formidable
than they thought.

Obama went to war against the Republicans without a plan to win the peace.

JM Hanes

Viewer:

And I thought Givhan made my day! "This opera won't be over until it's over." Somehow, I'm not seeing Obama as the fat lady here. More spinach, less arugula, more biscuits and gravy! In the meantime, you do need to catch up; low info voters are so 2004.

JM Hanes

Fresh Air:

I think this one is an independent operator. He probably just googled "astroturf" and thought, hey, I can do that!

Ignatz

--a moderate liberal--

Heh. The one thing I can state unequivocally is that I do not have anything against any "moderate liberal" who pals around with marxist terrorists and afro centric marxist preachers, joins the marxist New Party, defends and works with the marxist group ACORN, has advocated a single payer nationalized health care scheme along with a centrally planned energy economy and has traveled the world apologizing to our enemies for America's past defense of freedom, because there is no such thing as a moderate liberal who does any of those things.
If Barry actually were a moderate liberal I doubt he'd be having so much trouble and I doubt the likes of viewer would be here defending him.

Ann

JHM, A really stylish fisking:

Photobucket

Robin Givhan Fashion Icon....nope (ha ha ha)

RichatUF

Wow. I wanted to hit viewer with a clue bat, but it seems I'm a bit later to the party. And hit and JM Hanes are doing their usually masterful work on the Givhan's column.

I suppose that Obama's low information voters are taking his views articulated at his San Francisco fundraiser to heart. It can only be false consciousness that explains why "those volatile worker bees with American-flag hankies wrapped around their skulls" wouldn't want to be ministered to by the loving touch of a national health service which would have access to your entire medical history, some of your financial history, all of your personal identification information, and the bedside manner of the finest fruit of the SEIU.

narciso

Ditto, Ignatz, Clinton was embarassing but
'mostly harmless' in comparison. Didn't Obama win over the low information voters, as post election surveys proved, no loafers go on the other foot, Dean was persistent
but polite.

Original MikeS

Wow! Today our trolls have a new script today about the fire in the bellies of Obamanijad supporters.

The weekend shift is a bit more vitriolic than the first string. I'm wondering if these are the guys His one-derfulness pays $400 to $600 a week to promote the corruption he calls 'reform.'

MayBee

JMH!
I'm back from vacation. sigh.

Jane

Where did you go Maybee - if you can say.

MayBee

Just to visit family (both sides) and old friends, Jane. Exciting only to us, I suspect.

narciso

They pay those people at the Washington Post
enough, but I guess you can't buy taste, but
though they can denigrate it in others.

RichatUF

I just can resist:

Tort reform as an 'issue' has been way overblown--THAT'S why it's not an issue now.

In the GOP proposals that have been discussed tort reform is one of the major bullet points. The AMA has tried to engage the issue but Obama at his speech to their convention ignored the issue. Since the Obama Administration is attempting to sell the House version as his policy, and tort reform is no where to be found, the issue isn't being fully engaged.

I wouldn't underestimate the fire of those who supported Obama--we don't do things in the same ignorant, NUTBALL way you do, but it doesn't mean 'fatigue.'

Like beating up people that show up to townhall meetings who are critical of the house's version of healthcare. Obama sent to the go order to the SEIU and assults happened by Dmocratic operatives against people showing up at toen hall events. Spin it all you want, but we have seen your kind before.

This opera won't be over until it's over. The low information far right has a creepy cult of multiple *personalities* which is driving the fake appearance of 'opposition.'

Who will be the fat lady singing in the end? And point to these "multiple personalities" from which a "cult of personality" is being built. Obama has his cult of personality with a fawning media presenting him in a cloyingly, heroic light and a leadership council (which he has parked in the executive office as "czars") from which the orthodoxy of what we will be able to call Obamism will be based.

The corporate health care status quo offers us essentially the same CRAP SANDWICHES. Maybe you like the taste--gorge yourselves--but millions of us don't!

Get back to me when you have read up on the Indian Health Service or Veterans Affairs. And why is it so hard to admit; Obama cut a deal with "Big Pharma" to get $150 million in ads to support Obama's healthcare proposal and some "Big Business" is either in favor of Obama's approach or at least acquiescent to it.

Fresh Air

Who will be the fat lady singing in the end?

Robin Ghivan looked a little broad in the beam.

Mike Myers

You know that Obama wanted to ram this 1,000 page monstrosity through in less than two weeks time before the Congressional recess. It's the "fierce urgency of now" and all the rest of that horse manure.

Didn't work --so now Robert Reich comes out and says "Why are you folks complaining? There's no bill just proposals and nothing to talk about".

Well, unlike some folks,others have memories with a half life of more than 30 seconds. If the cake was all baked and had to be rammed through in July--how did it get unbaked and become simply proposals in August? Why should I believe these "reverse bakers"?

glasater

I had to point out to the ombudsman at the WaPo the sartorial splendor of the SEIU thugs as they beat up a black entrepreneur at a Missouri townhall--re Givhan's article.

JM Hanes

RichatUF;

The "cult of multiple *personalities*" was pretty funny, wasn't it? Especially coming from an astroturfer.


MayBee:

I'm so relieved. I thought you'd left me for Jake.


Ann:

Did you notice the sweater!!! Once the Fairness Doctrine is reinstated, Ill be looking forward to to your columns in the Post.

PeterUK

Would i be possible to interject an international note here?

America has an astronomical deficit,the markets are leery about buying your debt,to solve this,Obama proposes to expand your health care system and demolish private health insurance.
Does the Obama Profligacy not look at this from an external viewpoint? He is about to turn the international insurance business sud-prime!

RichatUF

part 2:

YOU people are making it about Obama!

The Obama Administration has made healthcare his signature issue and there is plenty of tape of him and his advisors saying that reforms are the nose in the tent for a more expansive federal takeover. The federal government has had difficulties running airport security, mail delivery, home mortgages, and the healthcare they already deliver. People are rightly upset that the Obama Administration hasn't even bothered to finish its meals of the financial sector or the auto industry before moving on to the healthcare industry, an area that Americans are ok with the status quo and which is irrelevant to the recession and recovery.

You didn't care about deficits...

Obama's deficits are of a different kind, as the graph Cecil helpfully put up will attest.

astroweed tea bagging and protests when Bush was in office, but under Obama you're all bent out of shape about it.

I seem to recall Code Pink and ANSWER and a whole galaxy of astroturfed anti-Bush groups, mostly funded by Soros, of which Obama was solicitous of support. The support for Obama's healthcare proposals are astrotruf, run by a master of the form-Axelrod, and the opposition is a real grassroots movement, without central leadership, and is rightly angry at their federal representation.

You didn't care about so-called 'death panels' when the majority of Republicans voted in support of essentially the same thing in 2003, but now under Obama low information conservatives are convinced granny is going to end up as Soylent Green (why don't wingnuts care that much about GRAMPA?!!!!!!)

The conflation is still on going-planning to make sure ones affairs are in order is not the same as a committee, board, or panel which would decide who gets what treatments based on political calculations. The logical outcome "of bending the cost curve" is rationing. We have the example of the Oregon woman whose treatment was denied, and instead, the state offered death. The person responsible for the Oregon system is now a member of Obama's healthcare brain trust.

You people have a very peculiar thing about Obama, firsty as a Democrat, then as a moderate liberal, and lastly as an African American. Which one of you kooks hung the effigy of Obama from a rope on porch in my neighborhood last summer?

Obama a "moderate liberal"? Right, that is why he sought out communist and terrorist mentors his entire life: from the racist Rev. Wright to Bill Ayers, to working for ACORN and carrying water for SEIU, Obama hasn't had a single "moderate" influence in his professional life.

Original MikeS

Very nice spanking RichatUF.

I've read wildly varying estimates on how much money tort reform could save. Estimates seem to vary from a huge amount of money to "take your breath away, make your eyes water, and wet your pants" amount of money.

Regardless of the amount, my point is that, in one of the earliest decisions about who gets what in Obamawon's health plan, he chose Dem special interests over lowering costs for people who need care.

windansea

No Treats From Obama

Pofarmer

he chose Dem special interests over lowering costs for people who need care.

Well, sure, you don't really thing this is about improving people's health care, do you?

O.K.

I'm agnostic on tort reform. We got some version of tort reform in MO about 3 or 4 years ago and I can't see where it did anything, for, well, anything. Insurance has kept rising. Don't know if Dr.s insurance bills were cut, or not. If they were, they've simply pocketed the difference, which is what I expected would happen.

centralcal

I agree with JMH, when the Fairness Doctrine kicks in, I think Ann should take Robin G's place.

JM Hanes

windansea: ROTFLMAO!

RichatUF

PeterUK-

Does the Obama Profligacy not look at this from an external viewpoint? He is about to turn the international insurance business sud-prime!

Sud-prime? I know when I think of the disaster the Obama Administration is turning out to be, I want to drink a few good beers too. In re: debt, the problem the Obama Administration is running into is that trade is collapsing globally, which is crimping international demand for US debt, and his policies will do nothing to spur either domestic demand (he'll have to raise taxes significantly so people are battening down the hatches) or international demand (since the US is the importer of last resort, and we aren't buying, the rest of the world's export industries are suffering).

Moreover, one small aspect of this healthcare puzzle that I'm trying to figure out is the trade aspect. The Obama Administration thinks that they can somehow wave a magic wand and get the US exporting again (which in and of itself is an unnuanced view of world trade), but one of the areas of US export strength is healthcare-diagnostic equipment and pharmaceuticals. With massive federal interference into the healthcare sector, wouldn't the Obama Administration run the risk of choking off this area of export strength?

RichatUF

Original MikeS-

I'm not sure how much tort reform would make either, but since the Dems are running DC and controlling the debate, the issue isn't going to be fully engaged. On the malpractice side it would probably take awhile to see signficant differences because doctors are leaving practice because of the lawsuit threat and people who might be inclined to be doctors can make a nice living working elsewhere because working in medicine has the lawsuit cloud hanging over it.

The other aspect would the product liability of pharmaceutical makers. They spend hundreds of millions on product development and several hundred millions more on phase 3 testing and FDA approval. The FDA approval then doesn't amount to much, since it doesn't shield them from jury verdicts in the tens of millions of dollars.

Not sure what the answer is, but the Obama Administraition doesn't want a debate about it either.

PeterUK

RichatUF,
International investors probably have money in US health care,I'm sure Lloyds underwrite some of the stuff.

Captain Hate

windandsea: Dogs are extremely good judges of character as that link illustrated.

Original MikeS

I was just jotting some numbers down on the back of an envelope and damned if I didn't come up with a way to shave $1.6 trillion off the cost of Obama's health reform plan.

PeterUK

Good job that isn't the First Dog,it would starve to death.

RichatUF

PeterUK-

Was being a bit cheeky. The next administration after Obama is going to really have to go on an apology tour with re-set buttons after Obama gets done trashing the US and our allies.

PeterUK

RichatUF,

It would be a good move for Sarah Palin to start doing that now.

Pofarmer

doctors are leaving practice because of the lawsuit threat and people who might be inclined to be doctors can make a nice living working elsewhere because working in medicine has the lawsuit cloud hanging over it.

But, still, didn't someone post a 43% acceptance level to medical schools? Let's just admit the reason that the rate is that low is NOT because it's dummies signing up. That's a pretty good indicator that there's still a lot of interest out there in being an MD. Plenty of folks wanna be Dr's. Let's let em.

Ann The Mannequin

Thanks, JMH and CC.

I have decided we all need a mob name and have choosen....Ann The Mannequin. :)

MaryD

Hit and Ann, thanks so much for the Givhan link and the picture. She is a totally pretentious twit (who obviously doesn't know what a syllogism is), but, bless her heart, she can always be counted on for a good laugh. BTW, I've seen other pictures of her and she always looks like a head-on crash between a bag lady and a fashion victim.

Extraneus

Obama went to war against the Republicans without a plan to win the peace.

lol

PeterUK

Health care tourism.

bad

windansea, that was hilarious. At first I thought the dog would eat if she said "okay" but that turned out to be wrong. Funny, funny, funny.

narciso

Saw a story, there how David Cameron, backs the NHS, against the accounts we know of here so he is yet another proof that he will be more of the same, like Romney. The Daily Mail is supposed to be conservative,
but not in any sense I can think off

Extraneus

Yeah, and here's from a link on the page PUK just linked to:

Daniel Hannan defends himself against the charge he wants to impose a US-style healthcare system on Britain.

Extraneus

Department of Medical Vacuity (Click for full size.)

Michael Ramirez Political Cartoons

PaulL

That's hilarious, windansea.

bad to the bone

PUK, I pay an awful lot of money to the county hospital, via my taxes, to cover healthcare costs for the poor and illegal.

Obama's grandmother must be the source of at least part of his idiocy. They sound an awful lot alike. blah, blah, blah...

bad to the bone

Ibama is trying to set up the insurance companies as evil mongers. His ugly mug is on my TV right now trashing insurance companies as making sweetheart deals.

bgates

You didn't care about deficits...

I don't recall lefties whining about paying $1.20 for gas when Clinton was president, but you hypocrites thought $3.50 a gallon was a huge problem.

(Stolen from a commenter at Althouse. If you really want to send a lefty into a frothing rage with this kind of comparison, use military deaths - 12390 under Bush = You're breaking the military and murdering our patriotic children, 7500 under Clinton = "Is it a new episode of 'Friends' this week?")

pagar

wouldn't the Obama Administration run the risk of choking off this area of export strength?

I can't believe they care, I see no sign that they want any private business at all. They think they can tax the rich, or the not so rich and get all they need.

bad to the bone

Ibama wants to hold healthcare cost increases to the same level as inflation. Pity it doesn't occur to him to do the same with the federal budget.

Extraneus

Wait, I thought it was Big Pharmaceuticals making sweetheart deals.

Why, yes, it is.

RichatUF

Aneta, a big heath insurer, is also making sweetheart deals.

bgates

I didn't think of it in these terms at the time, but 6 years ago I said to myself, "given the history of early male pattern baldness in my family, I may as well start shaving my skull now, or in 2 or 3 years I'll have a forehead the size of Robin Givhan's."

Ann The Mannequin

bgates,

I sure missed you around here. Glad to see you are back and better than evah.

Extraneus

BO from his 7/21 news conference:

Now one of the plans that we've talked about is a public option, and part of the reason we want to have a public option is just to help keep the insurance companies honest. If the insurance companies are providing good care -- and as it is, they're going to be more regulated so that they can't deny you care because of a pre-existing condition or because you change jobs or because they've decided you're too sick and not a good risk. You know, if -- with regulation, there's already going to be some improvement in the insurance industry.

But having a public plan out there that also shows that maybe if you take some of the profit motive out, maybe if you are reducing some of the administrative costs, that you can get an even better deal, that's going to incentivize the private sector to do even better. And that's a good thing. That's a good thing.

Yeah, 0, taking "some of the profit motive out" is a great thing for business, and for the economy. I guess you learned at Columbia, or was it Harvard? Perhaps we could refer to your transcripts if you wouldn't mind.

If Sarah Palin comes out with a facebook post questioning Obama on exactly what he means by the insurance companys' dishonesty, I'll donate $100 to her PAC immediately upon reading it.

PeterUK

"if you take some of the profit motive out, "

This is student activist speak. The kid has never grown up!

RichatUF

Obama sure looked mad preaching to his congregation in CO. I only caught the last minute of the event, did he say anything interesting?

sylvia

Here is an article on RomneyCare that I think is fair (LUN) from 2008. For once, it's not from sompleplace like the ultra conservative Cato Institute, I think it's not too left, not too right. Anyway, the article says it has it's problems, but so far seems to be working okay.

There are some cost overruns, but not THAT much, seems to be about 10% over or so. Anyone who's ever had a contractor work on your house, you double the estimate, and that's just to start, so 10% over is not that bad. And a lot of that has to do with the recession.

They didn't get everyone insured, but they got a lot insured. It went down from about 8% uninsured to about 5%. I just saw in Wiki it went down more to about 3% uninsured recently.

There are problems with primary care appointments, but they said there were lots of problems with primary care appointments even before RomneyCare in Mass, so it has had only a small effect. They are working on ways to up the revenue by higher work contributions and increasing primaries.

On the whole, doesn't sound that bad.

Jane will cause you pain

I caught a sound bite of today's "it's all about me" event, and the president is still fighting Sarah Palin. It warms my heart.

I don't know why we are changing our names, but I'm in.

Ignatz

--did he say anything interesting?--

I nominate Rich for best joke of the week.

bad to the bone

Love your new handle, Jane.

"breaking glass"ater-mob moniker

Someone awhile back mentioned that Mitt Romney needed to make a speech defending his health plan for Massachusetts.

The link above is about as close to that end as I have read--so far.

Jane will cause you pain

MA health care is broke Sylvia. My rates have tripled as a result - for a single healthy person I pay $700 a month. They just decided to prohibit aliens (not illegal ones, but the legal ones) coverage because the cost over runs are unsustainable. It takes an average of 53 days to get an appointment, and I book mine a year in advance.

"Problems" are an understatement. It's toast.

centralcal

bad! Jane! Ann! help me please!

I need a new moniker for my evil mongering persona, and I just can't think of anything clever or catchy like you two. ::frown:: (opposite sue's ::grin::).

Any ideas?

centralcal

oops - I mean, you THREE! okay, it is cocktail hour for me and counting is difficult.

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