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August 16, 2009

Comments

Jerry Rice

‚ÄČ"Repeal all state laws which prevent insurance companies from competing across state lines."

Dick Armey was on MTP today advocating this idea. I don't think he understand the implications of this. His own state of Texas is a haven for insurance co's because of it's 'laissez faire' laws which purport to regulate that industry. When state lines disappear, the policy mills will have no place of refuge and will have to operate under unified federal law. And how is buying my insurance from a co in Colorado, when I live in Alabama, going to be better than one I buy in my home state?

bgates

When state lines disappear, the policy mills will have no place of refuge and will have to operate under unified federal law.

Or, when you buy insurance from another state, you agree to settle disputes under the laws of that state. We can muddle through without "unified federal law" just as we've gotten by without one world government.

And how is buying my insurance from a co in Colorado, when I live in Alabama, going to be better than one I buy in my home state?

Better skiing injury rehabilitation coverage.

Which might not be something you're interested in, so you'll be relieved to know that Republican plans don't force you to buy insurance from outside your state. That's worth saying again, because progressives have trouble with the concept: we replace forcing you to stay in your state with not forcing you to do anything. We give you a choice. Aren't you guys pro-choice?

[Italiacto!]

bgates

Well, the tag felt closed when I typed it.

Tully

I think John Mackey checked out the demographics of America and his own customer base, and realized that progressives were fewer in number than either moderates or conservatives.

This would be followed by the realization that liberals were not the bulk of his customers, just the noisiest and most fickle ones.

Tully

I'm feeling the unclosed too... and I didn't HAVE any tags

the bishop

Don't try to confuse him with facts, bgates, it's like Spock talking with Norman
the Android, you'll burn out his transistors

Jerry Rice

"you agree to settle disputes under the laws of that state."

Change 'agree' to 'are forced' and there's your difference without a distinction.

I thought you guys were about 'choice'.

Ignatz

--Change 'agree' to 'are forced' and there's your difference without a distinction. I thought you guys were about 'choice'.

--

You won't have to buy an out of state policy if you don't choose to. There's your 'choice'.

Rick

When something goes into the courts, "are forced" comes into play. Just a very little bit, of course.

Rather impressed with the Whole Foods CEO. Would've thought for sure he'd be a Ben & Jerry authoritarian moonbat. Pleasantly wrong.

Cordially...

Jerry Rice

-

"You won't have to buy an out of state policy if you don't choose to."

But I want that ski accident coverage in case it ever snows in Alabama. How is that choice?

bgates

Change 'agree' to 'are forced'

In the same sense that you're "forced" to return the rental car at the end of the weekend: you have to agree to be forced.

Under our plan, you could choose to buy insurance only from Alabama companies, and I could choose to buy insurance only from Alabama companies too. Why don't you want me to have that choice?

Foo Bar

Maybe Mackey would have more success expressing his views if he used his old strategy: posing as someone other than himself while posting on message boards. He's posted stuff like this in Yahoo Finance comments sections (as poster "rahodeb"):

While I'm not a 'Mackey groupie,'" he wrote in 2000, "I do admire what the man has accomplished."

Maybe it would be more persuasive if "rahodeb" expressed admiration for Mackey's health care plan.

bgates

But I want that ski accident coverage in case it ever snows in Alabama. How is that choice?

That isn't "choice", that is "want". Under our plan you could choose to satisfy that want by buying a Colorado policy. Or you could decide you'll never subject yourself to the jurisdiction of those mountain savages, and go without. Nothing to us.

Jerry Rice

"In the same sense that you're "forced" to return the rental car at the end of the weekend: you have to agree to be forced."

Poor example.

How about 'I choose not to serve on jury duty
because I didn't sign any agreement to do so'?

Cecil Turner

Saw this a while back about John Mackey ("I No Longer Want to Work for Money"):

Beginning on January 1, 2007, my salary will be reduced to $1, and I will no longer take any other cash compensation....
So the libtards want to hit him in the pocketbook, eh? A better example of "ready, fire, aim" is hard to come up with.

bgates

Maybe it would be more persuasive

I think the vast majority of the world would agree that, all else equal, a signed editorial in the Wall Street Journal by a successful CEO is more persuasive than a comment made on the internet under a pseudonym, "Foo Bar".

bgates

How about 'I choose not to serve on jury duty
because I didn't sign any agreement to do so'?

Are you asking whether a petulant flouting of several hundred years of statute and common law is a better analogy to the voluntary purchase of a good or service than the voluntary purchase of another good or service is?

Jerry Rice

Better than the 'rental' car analogy, yes. Renting a car is hardly a life or death matter.

Soylent Red

I'm hoping that the cognitive dissonance created by Mackey's article will paralyze the moonbat fringe long enough for them to starve to death trying to figure out what to do.

Ignatz

--Maybe it would be more persuasive if "rahodeb" expressed admiration for Mackey's health care plan.--

FooBar,

You're ordinarily pretty reasonable.
Do you similarly dismiss Glenn Greenwald's opinions as unpersuasive?

bgates

Renting a car is hardly a life or death matter.

Never said it was. It's a voluntary contract, like purchasing health insurance ought to be. What are the common characteristics of health insurance and jury duty?

Rick

Overlooked in some of the above comments is that "are forced" is entirely the point of the public "option." Any color you want as long as it's black.

Well, except for Congressfolks and other mandarins, of course.

Cordially...

Original MikeS

Progressives need to acknowledge that to employ Mackey's health plan nationwide would cost $1.6 TRILLION less than Obama's plan.

The brilliance behind Mackey's plan is that it uses insurance as insurance. The high deductible ($2500) insurance insures against major medical costs rather than checkups or office visits for sniffles etc. Mackey provides $1800 of the deductible whether is is used or not. This becomes an incentive for his employees to take responsibility for their own wellness and health.

On the topic of "choice" or "change" or any other word in the dictionary, I don't blindly support or promote any of those words.

Tom Maguire

I think the vast majority of the world would agree that, all else equal, a signed editorial in the Wall Street Journal by a successful CEO is more persuasive than a comment made on the internet under a pseudonym, "Foo Bar".

My money is on Foo Bar. Of course, the vast majority of the world is not commenting at JOM...

Jerry Rice

"Never said it was"

You implied the two were comparable, hence your use of the word 'analogy.

"What are the common characteristics of health insurance and jury duty?"

Both necessary for a healthy body politic.

Rick


But even more--liberty and scope to exercise free will.

Cordially...

Ranger

Well, the nashing of teeth and the tearing of hair has begun on the left as word of the surrender on the "public option" spreads. Exspect the trolls to get even more nasty as they try to expunge their pain.

Captain Hate

This would be followed by the realization that liberals were not the bulk of his customers, just the noisiest and most fickle ones.

Maybe he doesn't like processing food stamps.

Grammar Nazi

'gnashing'

Foo Bar

Do you similarly dismiss Glenn Greenwald's opinions as unpersuasive?

I'm not his biggest fan, although he's certainly capable of making some good points at times. I have not reviewed the evidence behind the allegations of his sock-puppetry carefully enough to come to a firm conclusion, but my impression is that he is likely guilty.

This doesn't mean that everything Greenwald and Mackey say can be dismissed from now on, but it's a ding to their reputations and a relevant piece of information when evaluating their credibility. It's not a fatal ding, but it's a useful data point when assessing the person.

I just thought I'd point this out regarding Mackey, just as you might be inclined to point out Greenwald's sock-puppetry to an audience who might not otherwise know about it.

Jane will cause you pain

Whole Foods occupies a similar shelf space in my mind, perhaps unfairly.)

I too have no use for Starbucks but about once a month I travel about 35 miles to get to the nearest Whole Foods. I love their fresh stuff - not veggies, stuff like nuts - and I make my own peanut and almond butter - and they have the best chocolate chip cookies on the planet.

I have even bought fish there - something I was raised to only buy in a fish market, so that is saying a lot. They also have good sushi - and bread and lots of other stuff. For me, worth the time and mileage.

Original MikeS

as word of the surrender on the "public option" spreads.

I still agree the majority who think that any health care reform now would do more harm than good. Let's give the economy a chance to recover a little. Next year Repubs could run on something incorporating Mackey's suggestions.

I also favor rescinding the remaining 90% of the Dem vote purchase plan that they call 'stimulus,' in order to help the recovery blossom.

Charlie (Colorado)

Or you could decide you'll never subject yourself to the jurisdiction of those mountain savages

I can't decide whether to be pleased or insulted.

Charlie (Colorado)

Any color you want as long as it's black.

Racist.

the bishop

Gleenwald helped a Nazi later wanted in connection with a murder of a judge, get a shot at the bar. He has kind things about jihadists too, I'll take Mackey over Greenwald anyday, and it's not just because of the crab bisque.

Jim Ryan

UPON FURTHER, WHICH IS TO SAY EXCESSIVE, REFLECTION

A Tomism. Engrave it on a plaque, put it on your desk, it's a keeper.

Robert Brown

Jerry Rice:

Are you really that stupid or are you just having fun with us?

Please, God, tell us you are playing.

Ranger

'gnashing'

Posted by: Grammar Nazi | August 16, 2009 at 01:57 PM

I knew I'd misspelled it as soon as I hit post... Doh.

BTW, Drudge is really rubbing the left's nose in it on the death of the Public Plan.

bgates

I can't decide whether to be pleased or insulted.

Just trying to dissuade those mouthbreathing flatlanders from despoiling your pristine...um...altitudinous...insurance markets.

bgates

"What are the common characteristics of health insurance and jury duty?"

Both necessary for a healthy body politic.

Obviously not, since there was no such thing as health insurance for the first hundred fifty years of the republic.

You seem to have gone, which is a good thing; your arguments are poor enough you might have convinced Foo Bar to switch sides on the issue (or maybe not - he's opposed to what he sees as gaps in logic, which you got in spades, but he's apparently partial to pen names, so I guess it's a wash).

JM Hanes

Foobar:

When someone protecting his identity (and perhaps his own real world credibility?) with a screen name evaluates the credibility of others' use of screen names, it gets a pretty high score on my irony meter. The entirely disingenuous suggestion that Mackey might more successfully promote his views in his anonymous incarnation is a different matter.

I, personally, choose to post under my own name because I do think it helps to keep me honest and to avoid hasty comments which I might later find embarrassing or regret. While I certainly think deceptive practices are dicey, I consider self-serving sock puppets less consequential than pathetic.

Oddly enough, however, it is equally ironic that the web is a singular venue where folks most often must be judged, not by the content of their characters or who they are, but by the content of their posts. That's part of the attraction, IMO, but evaluating such content takes a skill set that deserves far more attention than it gets.

Porchlight

Some pro-ObamaCare folks were picketing Whole Foods HQ today when I drove by. I was initially confused by a counter-protester/WF supporter's sign saying "Thanks Whole Foods for having a spine!" But it was impossible to honk in approval of his sign w/o it seeming like I was approving the other guys.

Cecil Turner

When someone protecting his identity (and perhaps his own real world credibility?) with a screen name evaluates the credibility of others' use of screen names, it gets a pretty high score on my irony meter.

Mine, too. The level of sockpuppetry engaged in by Greenwald (on sites where he also posted under his own name) is weird and misleading (implying others share his views). Mackey's use of a pseudonym to hide his own identity (which expertise would've given more, not less, credibility to the remarks) is surely less of a sin. Add in the fact that the FTC checked for misleading information (and apparently didn't find any), and this approaches pure ad hominem (i.e., it has nothing to do with the credibility of his opinion piece).

Tom Bowler

Full Disclosure - I can't abide Starbucks and really just want a small coffee with milk...

Yeah, but Starbucks regular blend with milk is really good! I buy the stuff at Sam's Club which is almost as good as getting it at Walmart. I mention this only on chance that lefties trolling here will read this and get all pissed off at being reminded how the socially conscious Starbucks traffics with the Sam Walton gang in pursuit the filthy lucre.

Now, what would really be cool is if progressives would just boycott everything! It would solve an awful lot of problems.

sbw

"And how is buying my insurance from a co in Colorado, when I live in Alabama, going to be better than one I buy in my home state?"

Well, perhaps your state has been meddling mandating ridiculous requirements for insurance like mine has. That would make out-of-state insurance more affordable and show my legislators to be the fools they are. Competition is good.

Gmax

The lefties are going to forego tofu, crunchy granola, and bulk purchase of dried fruits by the pound? Yeah right, a lot of them would die of malnutrition. They got no choice, they will continue to feed their addition to organically grown arugula at the only place stocking their vice.

Next

clarice

I have a Whole Foods blocks from my home and while I find it over hyped and often overpriced, they do have great fish and some things I like which are no easily found elsewhere. If the progs are boycotting, I'll head there more often.

Ann The Mannequin

Hi, Clarice!

Are you having a good time? We miss ya.

Jim Ryan

things I like which are no easily found elsewhere. If the progs are boycotting, I'll head there more often.

The Forme d'Ambert cheese could get me in there.

Captain Hate

A Whole Foods is probably the closest grocery store to me but it's a bit too pricey for me to do my regular shopping there. I'll go there for the occasional purchase (their coffee per/cup is reasonably priced and quite good) and the people are usually very friendly. If I find out the progs are boycotting it I'll do as Clarice does.

clarice

Ann, thanks. I'm having a wonderful time. My just 4 y.o. grand daughter created her first poem today:
You took a closer look
and now you can see
It wasn't a skeleton
It was just an old tree.

My heart soars like an eagle.
(I had thought I saw a buffalo skeleton by the side of the road, but she decided after a lot of fretting, that it must have been a fallen tree and composed this for me.)

Jane will cause you pain

I'll even make the trip twice a month!

Porchlight

That is very lovely, clarice. I can see why you're over the moon.

Ann The Mannequin

You must be very proud to have such a caring and smart granddaughter.

And she is a very lucky little girl!

-------------
BTW, my girlfriend's father always told her that the dead animals on the side of the road had heart attacks. :)

cathyf

Ever since the $2000 collision between van and deer butt (which the deer walked away from) we have a moment of silence and a ferverino to Dave's Auto Body when we see the dead animals by the side of the road.

Karl Lembke

I wound up blogging about an analysis of Mackey's op-ed piece that was posted at The Moderate Voice. I found it interesting that the poster at TMV, one Dr. Estes, was complaining about the edits the Wall Street Journal made.

I found the edits quite minor, and in most of the cases, to have no impact at all on meaning. One major edit removed a great deal of supporting text, but left the main point pretty much as Mackey wrote it.

Estes argues that among other things, the change to the headline will hopelessly mislead readers into believing Mackey is taking a position he doesn't intend. Firstly, I'd say the headline isn't going to "mislead" readers any more than the first two paragraphs of the piece will. Secondly, I think she's concerned about the patrons of Whole Foods, a group I imagine prides itself on being smarter, wiser, and more progressive than average. If this demographic is that easily misled, it doesn't speak well for the validity of that assumption, does it?

Mike Myers

Yup, Whole Foods aka "Whole Paycheck" is generally overpriced but some things there are just fine and good value for the money (their house brand "365" is a good deal).

Bought certain things at my Whole Foods for a long time--and if I have to cross from "progressive" picket line to get in there, well, that shopping cart is going to be a lot fuller than usual when I leave.

I give the Whole Foods CEO some props for writing the op ed piece. There are places and ways that our health insurance system could be improved--and if we could have an honest and open debate about all of it rather than having the gubmint cram a giant Pelosi pill where it hurts and saying "Take this, we know what's best for you", then we might be able to fix some of the problems.

Whitehall

When WF annouced that they were henceforth buying all of their electrical needs from windmills, the price of a muffin went up 10%.

Coincidence? You be the judge.

Katherine

I find Whole Foods great fun to shop - once in a couple of years when my local Russian supermarket runs out of rare commodities such as poppy seed by the pound (necessary for Christmas poppy seed strudel). They have great stuff (the cheese and breads alone are to die for), but as they are vastly overpriced, I do my groceries at TJ's or local Korean green grocers.
Having said that, this moronic boycott may actually compel me to visit them more often....

A.W.

btw, here is my thought on their endgame. there is none. this is just rage. look liberals thought whole foods was "their" store. they expected their store's CEO to be a hypocritical socialist. you know, sort of like ben and jerry. They wanted the CEO of a big rich company which got rich not by government largesse, but by finding an untapped desire in the economy, an unmet need, and meeting it, to turn around and sing the praises of the government running everything. in other words, they wanted the head of a large and successful private sector company to disdain what makes him rich. So this is about betrayal, although it begs the question: what the hell did you expect?

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