Obama's Talking About His Grandmother Again; People Who Listened Last Time Are Now "Dishonest"

The AP and the Sheryl Gay Stolberg of the Times cover Obama's town hall on Saturday, where he told the story of his own grandmother to illustrate a point about health care.  Since Obama is re-spinning the lesson he took from that experience this creates a bit of awkwardness for the Times, as we will explain.  Let's also admire the courage and honesty with which they address it.  From the Times:

To Promote Health Care Plan, Obama Talks About His Own Grandmother
By SHERYL GAY STOLBERG

GRAND JUNCTION, Colo. — As President Obama wages his public relations offensive to sell Americans on the need for overhauling health care, he is using a familiar tactic: trying to make the political personal by putting a human face on a complicated and sometimes abstract debate.

...

On Saturday, he added a personal story of his own, citing the death of his grandmother to push back against unsubstantiated claims that he wants to establish government “death panels” that would deny care to elderly patients.

“I just lost my grandmother last year. I know what it’s like to watch somebody you love who’s aging deteriorate, and have to struggle with that,” Mr. Obama said. “So the notion that somehow I ran for public office, or members of Congress are in this so they can go around pulling the plug on grandma? I mean, when you start making arguments like that, that’s simply dishonest.”

So on Saturday in Colorado the point of Obama's story about his grandmother was that he was opposed to any sort of government role in "pulling the plug" on her or deciding that some treatments simply didn't pass a societal cost/benefit test, and to suggest otherwise was "dishonest".  "Dishonest"?

That is very much at odds with Obama told the David Leonhardt of the Times in April when he talked about his grandmother.  Here was the lesson he took away from her experience back then:

THE PRESIDENT: So that’s where I think you just get into some very difficult moral issues. But that’s also a huge driver of cost, right?

I mean, the chronically ill and those toward the end of their lives are accounting for potentially 80 percent of the total health care bill out here.

LEONHARDT: So how do you — how do we deal with it?

THE PRESIDENT: Well, I think that there is going to have to be a conversation that is guided by doctors, scientists, ethicists. And then there is going to have to be a very difficult democratic conversation that takes place. It is very difficult to imagine the country making those decisions just through the normal political channels. And that’s part of why you have to have some independent group that can give you guidance. It’s not determinative, but I think has to be able to give you some guidance. And that’s part of what I suspect you’ll see emerging out of the various health care conversations that are taking place on the Hill right now.

So in April Obama favored some sort of government sponsored panel that would help assess treatment options with one eye on the patient's quality of life and the other eye on the public purse.  Any guidelines would be voluntary, but of course, lots of people, presumably including doctors, can be persuaded to volunteer to follow a certain path if the alternative is a careful government review of all of their procedures.  By way of example, plenty of doctors voluntarily limit their patients access to opioid painkillers, in order to avoid scrutiny from the DEA.

When they published the April interview the Times was aware of the implications - here is their follow-up story from May 1:

Some conservatives have cited Mr. Obama’s story to make the case that his plan to expand access to health care and reduce costs ultimately will result in rationing, of the kind that might have denied his grandmother the surgery unless she paid the bill on her own.

“To me, Obama is laying out the intellectual case for health care rationing while acknowledging the potential human costs of such a policy,” wrote Matthew Continetti on the Web site of the Weekly Standard magazine. “He’s saying that, in order to contain costs, under a universal health care program his grandmother might have been denied that hip replacement, or forced to pay for it herself. This is the natural consequence of a universal policy, which would bankrupt the country without some form of rationing care.”

Fortunately the Times also found libs ready to put a happy face on Obama's remarks:

Advocates on the other side of the debate reject the label. “I think Obama was trying to invoke the notion of tradeoffs more than rationing,” said Len Nichols, who directs the health care program at the New America Foundation, a Washington research organization. “Curative care for his grandmother was futile. Rationing is when efficacious care is denied to save money, perhaps to provide basic care to another, but nevertheless consciously denied.”

Well - Obama quite clearly talked about the hip replacement as a quality of life decision, not a "curative" treatment, said it was a tough call, said end-of-life care is a huge cost driver, and spoke in favor of a final legislative package that included "voluntary" guidelines established by government wise men to balance expense and efficacy.  Denial is probably the best tactic for Obama's supporters on this one.

However, the Times has now painted themselves into a corner - their recent faux-careful examination of the "death panel" rumors that have dogged Obama completely failed to note Obama's own contribution to the debate in April.  The Times has decreed that the notion that Obama has ever hinted at support for anything like a death panel (or cost oriented trade-offs for end-of-life care) is "false", despite their own past reporting to the contrary.

So what are they going to do when Obama starts talking about his grandmother and insisting that his only takeaway from that experience was that he is opposed to death panels or any sort of government advisory role in end-of-life care?  Are you kidding?  They are going to move on.  Nothing in the latest Gay Stolberg story hints that Obama is re-spinning his grandmother's tale with a new "lesson learned" or that the folks now accused of being "dishonest" can point to Obama's own words as printed in the Times.

It's Times-world - Obama can say whatever he wants and later say whatever else he wants, then denounce the people still grappling with the previous version.

Imagine my surprise.

Comments

[Ranger]

“So the notion that somehow I ran for public office, or members of Congress are in this so they can go around pulling the plug on grandma? I mean, when you start making arguments like that, that’s simply dishonest.”

No, Barry just wants to leave granny bedridden for the last four months of her life, or deny a 100 year old woman a pacemaker because she's just too old for that kind of treatment. And all to save a little money.

[ben]

The Obama Op-Ed in the NYT today is ridiculous. After a long list of new benefits the health insurance companies "will be forced to provide", such as no lifetime limits and no denying of pre-existing conditions and no monetary limit on procedures, he goes on to state that "you can keep your own plan", like the costs this would entail would not affect the quality and costs of everyone's plan.
Yet there are those that believe this garbage.

[ben]

"Rationing is when efficacious care is denied to save money, perhaps to provide basic care to another, but nevertheless consciously denied.”

See, all you have to do is re-define rationing and you are home free to implement it. If its not "consciously" denied, it's not rationing. It's a trade-off.

Granny's care won't be rationed, it will traded-off.

[verner]

I think Obama is getting to me. I had a weird dream last night about him, that ended with me shouting at him that he was nothing but a punk and needed to start acting presidential.

[Ignatz]

--Obama can say whatever he wants and later say whatever else he wants.--

I'm sure people are sick of this NPD talk but the quote above is a prime tell of NPD.
They will state one thing, usually a lie, to your face. When it suits them, occasionally even in the same sentence, they will state something 180 degrees in opposition to their own previous position, all the while looking you right in the eye as though the first thing was never said.

And since I've raised the subject, another tell is a complete lack of 'empathy' for others. His ability to toss others under the bus, seemingly without thought, his ability to use family members as props, his cold, distant superiority and perhaps most importantly, to the extent he has any friends they are other similar personalities, such as Ayers or Michelle.

The guy's a walking case study.

[flmom]

The interview in April underscored a tactic of Obama's. He likes to appear to be weighing the pro's and con's in a thoughtful way to make himself look 'human' and in touch with the ethical problems involved with dilemmas. He can then claim pragmatism as in his decision to vote against the BAIPA. His reasoning for that vote was that it would invalidate the original intent of the mother who was undergoing the abortion. This man takes pragmatism to dizzying heights.

[Blair Howard]

It is OK to use your grandma as a prop if you are Democrat. Remember -

It was his grandma's hip replacement in the last weeks of her life that made him think we need Health Reform. (what did he say in 2008?!!)

If he really LOVED gramma, why did he not visit her for a year and a half?

I am a Obama supporter turned ANYONE but Obama and his croonies. And yes, I dress down for Town Hall meetings I am an average citizen. Convict me.

[Lonni]

Once again Obama is using his life experiences to push something he wants while denying, even to himself, the reality of what really happened. His grandmother did get her hip replacement. And, according to him, if she couldn't have paid for it or her insurance hadn't covered it, he would have paid. What about those who don't have his kind of money? They just wait in line and hope that a few dollars will be squeezed from the national budget? If he was sincere about what he is saying then he would have simply asked grandma to "take a pill" and lay in bed until she died...just like everyone else who doesn't make the cut. What a putz!

[Cecil Turner]

Everybody keeps the plan they have, everyone's benefits stay the same, uninsured get insurance, unicorns and rainbows for everybody. What's not to like? Hard-core liberals know he's lying and don't care . . . everyone else is a little nervous about how they're actually going to run the thing.

But at this point, I'm beginning to suspect they're serious about not wanting to do any politically difficult cost saving measures, because they're so desperate to get a bill. This is the worst possible answer. Not only will the system go bankrupt, it'll take the country with it. No wonder 54% (and rising) would rather have nothing.

[bio mom]

That Stolberg gal has been writing tripe since the later Bush years when she got the whitehouse stint. Wrote essentially the same hate Bush pieces over and over no matter what the topic, just mouthing poll data most of the time. And often getting facts wrong as well. A very poor journalist. Guess she is related to somebody so she keeps her job.

[bgates]

trying to make the political personal by putting a human face on a complicated and sometimes abstract debate.

What's great about the Democrats is the way they are intellectually capable of engaging in complicated abstractions
refuse to stoop to maudlin anecdotes to justify their policy preferences
tell nice stories about grandma that make the yokels smile and say yes?

Well, at least they personalize politics. No downside there.

[PeterUK]

Obama pushes an entire generation under the bus.

[Lisa]

Grandma the prop. Grandma who raised him and sacrafice for him so that he could go to the best schools. What does he do at the end of her days to honor her? Calls her a "typical white woman" and throws her under the bus. At her last moment, does he gather his family at her bedside?? No, Michelle goes out to campaign and the girls stay home, I guess he wouldn't want Grandmas love and sacrafice for him to rub off on them. When he speaks about his grandma in the context of health care, he says he would have paid out of pocket for her to be more comfortable, but did he ever really financially contribute to her comfort and care?? Probably not. He goes on to talk about how grandma's healthcare is a drain on society and the need for a panel of scientists and ethicists to make the calls. Just look at who the "scientists and ethicist's" he has chosen.. Yikes is all I can say. Just wait he'll have another grandma reference where he throws her back under the bus and accuses her of causing the drain to the spiraling rise of health care costs.

[PeterUK]

"He goes on to talk about how grandma's healthcare is a drain on society and the need for a panel of scientists and ethicists to make the calls."

That is just cowardice. All Obama is doing is shifting the decision onto others. "As I have always said,I wanted Granny alive,but I was overruled by the panel".

[Charlie (Colorado)]

No, Barry just wants to leave granny bedridden for the last four months of her life

Don't forget "and in great pain". Hip fractures hurt like a sonofabitch.

Oh, and early death: hip fractures in elderly patients have a 9 percent mortality within 30 days, and up to 20 percent mortality in a year.

[Original MikeS]

The brevity of Tom Mcguire's post makes his argument even more persuasive. Obama did indeed bring up the subject of "death panels" before Sarah mentioned it.

The facts demonstrate that Barack Obama has always favored "death panels." He just prefers that they be called something else.

[Captain Hate]

It is OK to use your grandma as a prop if you are Democrat.

Well he got a good lesson from that mentally-ill fat POS Al Gore's mawkish convention family tear-jerkers which were equal parts lies and dissembling. That primed the pump for Silky Ambulance Chaser and his Lady Macbeth wife who's been on death's doorstep for so long that death has filed a restraining order. Bammers is the worst as far as shamelessness though and his fall will obviously be the most precipitous; think Al Pacino's character in Scarface.

[PeterUK]

"The facts demonstrate that Barack Obama has always favored "death panels." He just prefers that they be called something else."

Subcontracted killers perhaps?

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Quote of the Day

[The New York Times]

Comrade Stalin says we will once again have record wheat crops in the Ukraine and that tractor production has hit an all time high

[PeterUK]

Is this not the negation of the social contract. The people accept the rule of law and pay taxes in return for protection. If Obama is now proposing that there is a limit on that protection,then citizens will have to protect themselves.

[Gmax]

"The facts demonstrate that Barack Obama has always favored "death panels." He just prefers that they be called something else."

The nazis called them showers.

[Original MikeS]

Thnx Charlie.

[PeterUK]

QALYs are used to measure quality of life as judged by by doctors,scientists. They don't ask you if you are enjoying the glorious sunset with your family.
Qalys are used here!

[MayBee]

Funny. I just brought this up in a similar post at Political Punch.

He also brought up his grandma's hip at the ABC forum. And again, it was about whether HE would pay for her hip vs. whether someone else should pay for her hip:
[QUESTIONER:}if your wife or your family became seriously ill, and things were not going well, and the plan physicians told you they were doing everything that reasonably could be done, and you sought out opinions from some medical leaders and major centers, and they said there's another option that you should -- should pursue, but it was not covered in the plan, would you potentially sacrifice the health of your family for the greater good of insuring millions? Or would you do everything you possibly could as a father and husband to get the best health care and outcome for your family?

OBAMA: Well, first of all, Doctor, I think it's a terrific question, and it's something that touches us all personally, especially when you start talking about end-of-life care.

As some of you know, my grandmother recently passed away, which was a very painful thing for me. She's somebody who helped raise me.But she's somebody who contracted what was diagnosed as terminal
cancer. There was unanimity about that. They expected that she'd have six to nine months to live. She fell and broke her hip. And then the question was, does she get hip replacement surgery, even though she was
fragile enough that they weren't sure how long she would last, whether she could get through the surgery.

I think families all across America are going through decisions like that all the time. And you're absolutely right that, if it's my family member, it's my wife, if it's my children, if it's my grandmother, I
always want them to get the very best care.

But here's the problem that we have in our current health care system, is that there is a whole bunch of care that's being provided that every study, every bit of evidence that we have indicates may not
be making us healthier.
======

What is he saying there, if he isn't saying there is a question about whether society should pay for someone who is about to die paying for a hip operation?
What does his Grandma have to do with the question asked, if that is not the point of raising her as an example.

I believe Obama wanted to have this discussion- perhaps even knew it was essential if we are going to have a public option- but has found it politically untenable.

He shouldn't be allowed to repackage his grandma's hip story now.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Here's what Obama is asking for his grandma:

• Reported overall mortality rate of hip fractures is 15-20%, yet in older persons this can increase to 36% over the year following hip fracture. Rate of mortality is greatest in the first few months following injury but remains high for up to 1 year. It then returns to the same rate for age- and sex-matched people without hip fracture. Surgical delay independently affects mortality. Patients for whom surgery is delayed for 2 days or more, have a 17% higher mortality rate at 1 month. A subsequent study showed increased mortality but decreased readmission rate in those repaired more than 4 days from the time of injury.2 Also, general anesthesia was associated with higher morbidity than was spinal/epidural anesthesia.2


• Morbidity associated with hip fracture is staggering, especially in older persons. Morbidity from immobilization includes development of deep vein thrombosis, pulmonary embolism, pneumonia, and muscular deconditioning. Morbidity from surgical procedures includes complications of anesthesia, postoperative infection, loss of fixation, malunion or nonunion, as well as the complications associated with immobilization as outlined above.


• Hip fracture resulting from major trauma often is associated with other bone and soft-tissue injuries, intra-abdominal and intrapelvic injuries, major blood loss, head and neck injuries, and other extremity injuries. Morbidity associated with an inability to return to a prefracture level of mobility results in a loss of independence, reduction in quality of life, and depression, particularly in older persons.

Emphasis mine.

[Jane will cause you pain]

And all to save a little money.

Well he may need another NT city flyover, or a date with Michelle or some more new stuff for the WH. Clearly that is a better use for our tax dollars.

[the bishop]

I'm quite familiar with that sequence of events Charlie, seriously was he born on Vulcan, that Newsweek column may have been
right, but not in a good way.

[MayBee]

Charlie- Obama's argument seems to be*: she is going to die anyway, from cancer or hip fracture. Fixing the hip fracture won't make her well, so society may see that as an excessive health care expense.

[MayBee]

*"seems to be" because he hints at that without ever daring to spell it out.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Oh, I got that, mayBee. I'm just pointing out that those last several months are gonna really suck.

Crap, just give the old bat a half a gram of morphine sulfate and be done with it.

[pagar]

Has any one ever seen anything indicating he ever spent a dime on his grandmother during her lifetime?

[PeterUK]

Charlie,
Hip replacements are often done to alleviate pain in those with arthritic joints.Whilst there might not be that much increased mobility,it relieves the kidneys of the toxic effect of painkillers and ant-inflamatory drugs.So even Obama's "Give them a painkiller" is rubbish.

[MayBee]

I agree, Charlie.

Obama also likes to invoke his mother's struggles with her insurer. As I understand it, she was diagnosed with cancer while she was in Indonesia, so I'm not sure who her insurer was and when she had acquired insurance. While I understand on a human level how she needs care even though she was (possibly) uninsured, can we compare the costs to society?

How much would it have cost for an insurance company to treat Obama's mother if she had a pre-existing condition, hadn't been paying premiums, and was about to die?

How can we compare the costs of grandma vs. mom? Is that something he would ever dare address?

[Captain Hate]

Has any one ever seen anything indicating he ever spent a dime on his grandmother during her lifetime?

That slate's as blank as all the rest. Maybe Tom Brokaw can check on it....

[bio mom]

I vote to spend our money on the grandmother and not the illegal alien, healthy 20 year old, or guy who won't buy the insurance because he wants to use the money on his new sneakers, cell phone, and cable tv carier.

[PeterUK]

Captain,

"That slate's as blank as all the rest."

It would appear that living his life as a tabla rasa enables Obama to write upon it what he will.

[Porch "Fancy Pants" Light]

The guy's a walking case study.

I think you're right, Ignatz.

Madelyn seemed like the nicest of the Dunham bunch, to be honest. I feel bad for her. I wish she would have lived to see him elected, I'm sure that would have given her joy at the end, even if he personally was not there for her much.

[Parking Lot]

((So the notion that somehow I ran for public office, or members of Congress are in this so they can go around pulling the plug on grandma? I mean, when you start making arguments like that, that’s simply dishonest.”))

He simply cannot get Palin out of his brain.

[Porch "Fancy Pants" Light]

He simply cannot get Palin out of his brain.

Yep. And as usual, it's a strawman. She didn't say he's "in this so he can go around pulling the plug on grandma." She said that systems that ration care based on quality of life are evil, and that she didn't want him to create such a system in this country.

He's the one being dishonest. But we all knew that.

[the bishop]

Dowd can't either, she even used the dreaded
"Carousel" line, for those who stillremember
"Logan's Run", not an analogy you want to bring up.

[PeterUK]

"So the notion that somehow I ran for public office, or members of Congress are in this so they can go around pulling the plug on grandma? I mean, when you start making arguments like that, that’s simply dishonest."

But they did run for office and propose a bill which would put them in the position of being able to pull the plug on Granny.

[The New York Times]

the fact is that they wrote the bill that might pull the plug on granny. They own it. Now they are trying to disown it as fast as they can. There is a complete lack of honesty by those proposing HR 3200, which we must assume is Obama's preferred plan.

[the bishop]

You can't get more Mob that ,Matt, that the Schulzberger gang.

[Fresh Air]

Ignatz--

I'm not sure NPD quite covers it. I think the word "psychopath" needs to be in the description somewhere.

[Parking Lot]

((Yep. And as usual, it's a strawman. She didn't say he's "in this so he can go around pulling the plug on grandma." She said that systems that ration care based on quality of life are evil, and that she didn't want him to create such a system in this country.))

Yes, and part of that was her urging very close attention be paid to who is advising him on health care matters. Funny he never cites and names the experts, scientists and ethicists who are guiding him. How very odd that their general philosophical views never enter in to any statement he makes, all we hear are some personal anecdotes which serve as red herrings away from the issues Palin raised.

[MayBee]

Yep. And as usual, it's a strawman.

An absolutely calculated strawman.

He is invoking the death panel= eol counseling at just the moment he wants to pretend he never discussed saving money by reducing end of life treatments that "don't make us well".

He's creating a distraction by pretending she is talking about something other than what she really is talking about. Then he denounces Palin and her "misdirection" while he busily redirects the debate.

[bgates]

But they did run for office and propose a bill which would put them in the position of being able to pull the plug on Granny.

Yes, but it's not that they want to pull the plug. It's an outrageous slander to say they're anything worse than indifferent to other people's pain and suffering. Granted, that's not a slander anyone engages in, but the outrage certainly comes in handy, don't you think?

[Jane will cause you pain]

Well he got a good lesson from that mentally-ill fat POS Al Gore's mawkish convention family tear-jerkers which were equal parts lies and dissembling. That primed the pump for Silky Ambulance Chaser and his Lady Macbeth wife who's been on death's doorstep for so long that death has filed a restraining order.

I just wanted to see that again.

[Pofarmer]

He simply cannot get Palin out of his brain.

Jealousy perhaps?

Obama seems to me a very shallow man, although he wouldn't be the first President with that affliction.

[hit and run]

PUK:
It would appear that living his life as a tabla rasa enables Obama to write upon it what he will.

But once written, it can be unwritten, rewritten at will, with no heed paid to what was written before.

Dry Erasula Rasa

[PeterUK]

H&R
Exactly.History is so inconvenient.

[Parking Lot]

Pofarmer

((Jealousy perhaps?))

Definitely. Mingled with fear and trembling.

[Parking Lot]

((Dry Erasula Rasa))

LOL!!!!!!

(btw, I made a copy of your Miss Manners post, and still read it from time to time when I need a good chuckle:) )

[Fresh Air]

Maybee--

He's creating a distraction by pretending she is talking about something other than what she really is talking about. Then he denounces Palin and her "misdirection" while he busily redirects the debate.

This is another example of his pitifully small skill set when it comes to argument. Nothing but pure sophistry. And this guy is supposedly a "Harvard-trained" lawyer? Does anyone really believe he was qualified to even go to Harvard?

[Captain Hate]

Speaking of history being inconvenient, I caught "Julie and Julia" earlier today and found it to be a reasonably entertaining celebration of food. However I'm sitting in the middle of a film which ultimately dragged on a bit too long and all of a sudden they start bringing up Julia Childs' ambassador husband being transferred from his Paris assignment to elsewhere because Joe McCarthy was suspicious of his having traveled to China (I have no idea if any of the details are true and don't feel like researching them). But I was sitting there thinking "This adds absolutely nothing to the story except the slatterns of Whoreyweird ramming their half-assed politics down my throat ie. Forget the 100 million people that were killed by communism; there were people blacklisted in this country!!11ty!!"

And Hollywood wonders why they're losing money.

[Porchlight]

Cap'n,

Nora Ephron has to get her jabs in. She just can't help herself.

[hit and run]

Parking Lot:
(btw, I made a copy of your Miss Manners post, and still read it from time to time when I need a good chuckle:) )

Thanks for that. I post so little these days, having driven away any semblance of regular traffic, that hearing someone has seen something I posted is nice.

Oh, gosh, what a great way to segue into a little SSP!

Everyone saw the 41% strongly disapprove number from Rasmussen today, of course.

http://thevimh.blogspot.com/2009/08/more-disapproved.html>Let's put that number in a little context.

At the end of eight years, Bush's Strongly Disapprove number was [muwhaaahaahaha, you have to click to see the number!]% worse than Obama's is right now, at the beginning of just his eighth month in office.

[boris]

"He's the one being dishonest."

When it comes to Sarah Palin they all have a really good excuse ... they have no choice.

[Jane will cause you pain]

Cap'n,

I noticed the same thing - and audibly groaned - which apparently is becoming my trademark.

Jealousy perhaps?

I think Sarah is everything Obama thinks he is supposed to be but knows he can't pull it off. She scares the living daylights out of him and must be destroyed.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Hip replacements are often done to alleviate pain in those with arthritic joints.Whilst there might not be that much increased mobility,it relieves the kidneys of the toxic effect of painkillers and ant-inflamatory drugs.So even Obama's "Give them a painkiller" is rubbish.

Exactly.

Oddly, a friend who is a hard-core lefty is from the UK; his mother, 90-odd years old, broke a hip. Knowing the above, I asked about the replacement; he told me that they don't believe in gratuitous hip replacements in the UK.

No clue how his mother did. She sounded like a stubborn old bat; she might have made it.

[PeterUK]

Charlie,
It is slightly more complicated than that here. Different Local Health Authorities,or what ever they are call this week,vary quite significantly on what they will fund out of their budgets.Depends on her post code,somewhat of a lottery.
At one point,general practitioners could send patients to specialist hospitals for operations. A New Labour Kommissar decided that all hospitals should be able to do the operations. No thought given to cost or the availability of surgeons.
It changes like the wind according to political dictat.

[Janet]

The "turn in your fishy friends" email site at whitehouse.gov is still up. I'm amazed they haven't been shamed into ending that. The WaPo hasn't even mentioned it in their print edition.

[MarkJ]

In ObamaWorld "rationing" is merely "prioritized reallocation of resources."

In the movie "Dr. Zhivago," after the Bolshevik commander "Strelnikov" casually notes that he burned a village "to make a point" to its inhabitants Zhivago retorts, "Your point. Their village."

That's the way I feel about ObamaCare:

"Your 'reallocation.' Our lives."

[JM Hanes]

PUK: "That is just cowardice. All Obama is doing is shifting the decision onto others."

Took the words right out of my mouth. The most egregiously dishonest thing Obama said in Colorado was that he "watched" his grandmother die.

Obama makes politics personal, alright, just not in the way Stolberg meant it. I find it amusing that the Style Book now requires that "death panel" be qualified by "unsubstantiated" -- when the squishiness factor rules out the preferred "debunked." That prefix is an update of the ubiquitous "worst foreign policy mistake EVAH" disclaimer with which liberals protected their credibility on the left, when saying anything conceivably positive about GWB.

[Baby]

Great post, hit. He ought to be able to make up that difference in a week at this rate. Yes he can!

[PeterUK]

JMHanes,

Anyone who has seen a loved one die is not so glib in the recounting of the experience.It takes many months,years even,for the shock and grief to recede sufficiently for you to talk about it.
One has nightmares about it as the brain tries to cope with the images and sensations imprinted indelibly there.
Using someone's death as a political prop is despicable. After such a short interval ,unthinkable.
This Obama is something else.

[jean]

Pofarmer check your e-mail

[Baby Face]

Ooops. I'm not good at this moniker thing.

[Chimpy Nuts]

I'm so proud of Sarah, after taking 24/7 abuse ever since she was nominated for VP, the feces flingers couldn't stop even after Obama won, then the left proclaimed victory after she resigned, congratulating themselves for a smear job well done

then Sarah throws a perfectly aimed bolt of lightning at the power source of the Obamacare/MSN DeathStar, from Facebook no less

booooooooooooooooooooooooooom!!!

got to love it :)

[PeterUK]

Chimpy Nuts,

This is the Billion Dollar Obama you are talking about,it broke Chicago!

[Frau The Schnauzer]

"... Gore's mawkish convention family tear-jerkers which were equal parts lies and dissembling."
Those were some of the few good times to watch Al "I flunked divinity school" Gore. Remember the grandmother who picked up cans at the roadside to buy necessities? Her family said she had enough funds and did it for a lark while walking.

I am cynical enough about our Agitator-in-Chief to think he visited his grandmother in her final days to use the event as PR and to control the disposal of her papers. It was implied in his statements/writings that he had been somewhat estranged from his mother and did not visit her in her final days, nor did he attend her funeral.

[Thomas Jackson]

Obama couldn't take the time to visit his dying granie and he couldn't take the time to attend her furneral.

I wonder if anyone but the brain dead fall for his lies any more?

[PeterUK]

In all seriousness,Sarah Palin was an enormous tactical error on behalf of the left.All they did by traducing her was,raise her profile so she could do damage like this.
Marvellous stuff,like a cross to a vampire.

[Frau The Schnauzer]

If it comes to it, Hell's Grannies Monty could roam the streets of D.C. sporting Clarice's pikes. (See Monty Python for uniform.) I'd sure like to goose Henry Reid or Patrick Leahy a few times. I don't mention Boxer because she should be gone this next election cycle.

[Fritz]

If you need any more evidence that socialized medicine is a disaster check out this interview with incoming head of the Canadian Medical Association ... "We all agree that the system is imploding, we all agree that things are more precarious than perhaps Canadians realize"

[Extraneus]

I see Drudge has the white flag up on the "public option," but Sebelius says the co-ops are still a go.

Soon the pharma companies will pay $150M just to advertize insurance portability.

I hope the R's are smart enough to oppose anything that's not in their own bill.

[Darth Venomous]

Has any one ever seen anything indicating he ever spent a dime on his grandmother during her lifetime?

The same guy who won't send his half-bro in Kenya $20 to double his yearly income?

You're kidding, right? :-)

[PeterUK]

"Soon the pharma companies will pay $150M just to advertize insurance portability."

Which advertising companies will benefit from this windfall,are they Democrat donors?

[PD]

I saw this billboard driving through Nashville this morning:

OBAMA CARE
Bad Medicine for All of Us

This was right downtown, one of those highly visible billboards that sticks way up in the air.

[Ignatz]

--Ignatz--

I'm not sure NPD quite covers it. I think the word "psychopath" needs to be in the description somewhere.--

FA,
Most head shrinkers in this field propose a spectrum of behavior from unhealthy narcissistic tendencies through the true personality disorder on to psycho/sociopathy.
The primary difference between a psychopath and someone with NPD is that NPDers have an overwhelming fear of being exposed or embarrassed and consequently a massive self preservation factor. Psychos behave in all ways very similarly but are willing to take risks that have a good chance of exposing them to personal harm or prison.
NPD = conscienceless chicken.
Psychopath = conscienceless wolf.
The one thing which indicates to me that Barry may not have progressed to a full personality disorder is the seemingly normal homelife, although no one really knows what goes on in a home except those who live there. People with NPD almost never have a placid home.

[cruella de centralcal]

"Anyone who has seen a loved one die is not so glib in the recounting of the experience."

Well said, PUK, and sadly too true. Whether a very beloved family member, or a loved and well regarded friend, it is imprinted upon one's heart and mind forever.

We always remember their being with many (often happy and pleasing) emotions, and their passing with sadness.

Obama has never "bonded" with anyone. He seems, rather, to have bonded with things.

[Extraneus]

I just read about that somewhere yesterday, PUK. Axlerod's former company gets the lion's share, and they and another company which did the rest of Obama's campaign advertizing are getting all the health-care dough these days. Can't find where I saw that.

[Frau The Schnauzer]

"The same guy who won't send his half-bro in Kenya $20 to double his yearly income?"

Somehow it's the same guy who found the means to buy dope--an allowance from gramps and granny? He's come this far spending other people's money, and he's doing a dynamite job in the WH with freshly printed bills.

[pagar]

Axlerod's former company gets the lion's share,

And people worried about Halliburton getting a sweetheart deal?

[PeterUK]

Extraneus,
Interesting that Pharma has has paid the $150,000,000 for the Obama Care advertising and is now a "Coalition Partner",but the insurance companies would not pay protection and have become the villains.

[PeterUK]

Frau,
Exacly how did Obama finance himself through his lengthy education?

[Frau The Schnauzer]

Extraneus - from earlier JOM thread:
'Obama Campaign Ad Firms Signed On to Push Health-Care Overhaul
By Timothy J. Burger
Aug. 15 (Bloomberg) -- Two firms that received $343.3 million to handle advertising for Barack Obama’s White House run last year have profited from his top priority as president by taking on his push for health-care overhaul.
One is AKPD Message and Media, the Chicago-based firm headed by David Axelrod until he left last Dec. 31 to serve as a senior adviser to the president. Axelrod was Obama’s top campaign strategist and is now helping sell the health-care plan. The other firm is Washington-based GMMB Campaign Group, where partner Jim Margolis was also an Obama strategist.
This year, AKPD and GMMB received $12 million in advertising business from Healthy Economy Now, a coalition that includes the Washington-based Pharmaceutical Research & Manufacturers of America, known as PhRMA, that is seeking to build support for a health-care overhaul, said the coalition’s spokesman, Jeremy Van Ess.
Hiring Obama’s campaign advisers makes sense, said Julius Hobson, a senior policy adviser in the Washington office of the St. Louis-based law firm, Bryan Cave LLP.
“If you’re in support of the president, then you use the people he used,” said Hobson, 61, who teaches a graduate course in lobbying at George Washington University.
in Washington.'

Using people...as the Bamster himself said, "It's a gift."

[Extraneus]

Thanks Frau!

[Jane will cause you pain]

Let's have a geezer's revolt!

The longer I think about it, the more it pisses me off that Obama and his minions in Congress have targeted every baby boomer and anyone older. He's called us every name in the book, complained that we dress too well, says we are not representative of the public and tried to shut us up every chance he gets.

It's time we band togther and get in their faces. That includes the administration, Congress, AARP and anyone who dares even consider this bill.

When you think about it, it's the prefect constituency given than a large percentage of us are retired.

We'll show him.

Now we need a name -

[Brian Macker]

Pulling the plug is the unintended consequences of socialism. There's nothing dishonest about it. We just thing you are too stupid to get it.

[PeterUK]

There is a commenter called.

"Shovel-Ready Seniors"

[florida]

I believe that Obama is a textbook psychopath.

Remember: His mother had broken her hip. She wasn't having elective hip replacement surgery. It's not fking lipo. She was in tremendous mind-numbing unbelieveable pain.

And Barack Obama in this interview is questioning whether society should have allowed her to have her hip repaired and the pain removed.

The alternative was spending the rest of her life in debilitating pain, or so doped on morphine as to not have any meaningful life.

He thinks those are acceptable societal options that we should now converse about.

My question is this: How do you debate a psychopath?

[Patrick Carroll]

A couple of aspirin and she'll be up and hopping around like a spring chicken.

Oh. Wait. What are the details of that PhRMA deal again.

[PeterUK]

Jane,
May I suggest that you carry bells and every time you encounter a politician ring it and chant "Bring out your dead".

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

Maybee: I think Obama's mother was employed by the Ford Foundation in Indonesia.

Via Wiki:

Dunham then pursued a career in rural development championing women’s work and microcredit for the world’s poor, with Indonesia’s oldest bank, the United States Agency for International Development, the Ford Foundation, Women's World Banking, and as a consultant in Lahore, Pakistan.

[Brian Macker]

Think not thing. Typo

[Extraneus]

Typos are a dime a dozen around here, Brian. Usually, we think it's typed correctly until the unsuspecting poster corrects the mistake. Then we realize they're imperfect, which is quite unfortunate.

[Jenny]

Obummer didn't watch his grandmother deteriorate, in fact, he didn't spend any time with her at all. He spent 15 minutes with her when he traveled to Hawaii during the campaign, and couldn't be bothered to attend her funeral.

[Original MikeS]

OBAMA CARE
Bad Medicine for All of Us

Even without the public option, Obama's plan still has death panels and it still costs $1.6 trillion.

If we are going to have reform, let's have real reform that saves money rather than costs more money.