Somebody Call Fishy-1-1!

Quick, get White House Communications Something-or-other Linda Douglass on the White House Fish-Line - Nancy Pelosi and Steny Hoyer are making a fishy claim about Obama' health care reform and even the NY Times is not buying it!

The dubious claim (emphasis added):

Health care is complex. It touches every American life. It drives our economy. People must be allowed to learn the facts.

The first fact is that health insurance reform will mean more patient choice. It will allow every American who likes his or her current plan to keep it.

And from today's NY Times primer on health care reform:

KEEP IT OR LOSE IT?

Mr. Obama has said repeatedly, as he told the American Medical Association in June: “If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor, period. If you like your health care plan, you’ll be able to keep your health care plan, period. No one will take it away, no matter what.”

These assurances reflect an aspiration, but may not be literally true or enforceable.

The legislation does not require insurers or employers to continue offering the health benefits they now provide. The House bill sets detailed standards for “acceptable health care coverage,” which would define “essential benefits” and permissible co-payments. Employers that already offer insurance would have five years to bring their plans into compliance with the new federal standards.

The Senate health committee bill goes somewhat further by offering an “option to retain current insurance coverage.”

The legislation could have significant implications for individuals who have bought coverage on their own. Their policies might be exempted from the new standards, but the coverage might not be viable for long because insurers could not add benefits or enroll additional people in noncompliant policies.

Dallas L. Salisbury, president of the Employee Benefit Research Institute, a private nonpartisan group, said: “The president and Democrats in Congress are saying what they would like. Their promises may not be literally true because your health plan may change, and your doctor may no longer accept your insurance.”

Both Pelosi/Hoyer and the NY Times acknowledge the importance of this point by leading with it.  Naturally, the Times could have been bolder in their quest for opposing voices - the Heritage Foundation trumpeted a study by the Lewin Group which estimated that under the House bill 88 million Americans could be transitioned away from their current coverage:

"This flies in the face of the current promises that if you like your health insurance coverage, you will keep it," said Heritage Vice President Stuart Butler. "If the public plan is implemented as detailed in this House bill, people with private insurance will be moved on a public plan, regardless of what they want, because their employers will make that decision because of the financial incentives in the bill."

Ramesh Ponnuru had a piece in TIME which also led with this puzzle - how can Obama promise a radical change in healthcare that won't actually affect the great majority of people currently satisfied with their own plan?

There are two basic points about health-care reform that President Obama wants to convey. The first is that, as he put it in an ABC special in June, "the status quo is untenable." Our health-care system is rife with "skewed incentives." It gives us "a whole bunch of care" that "may not be making us healthier." It generates too many specialists and not enough primary-care physicians. It is "bankrupting families," "bankrupting businesses" and "bankrupting our government at the state and federal level. So we know things are going to have to change."

Obama's second major point is that--to quote from the same broadcast--"if you are happy with your plan and you are happy with your doctor, then we don't want you to have to change ... So what we're saying is, If you are happy with your plan and your doctor, you stick with it."

So the system is an unsustainable disaster, but you can keep your piece of it if you want. And the Democrats wonder why selling health-care reform to the public has been so hard?

The Just One Minute health insurance reform takes less than one minute to explain, and addresses only the issue of portability.  People are worried that if they lose their job (or change jobs) they will also lose their coverage,especially if they (or a family member) have a pre-existing condition. 

I would legislate an "Accepted By One, Accepted By All" rule - anyone with conventional coverage from an approved insurer can not be denied similar coverage by any other insurer, regardless of pre-existing conditions.

Folks who are gaming the system by holding off on buying coverage will be free to continue to take their chances, but they won't have any legal right to coverage if they develop a medical problem.

One obvious flaw - a shrewd (but ethically deplorable) business model would be to collect premiums from healthy people, then offer a level of service so miserable to anyone who actually tries to collect that sick people switch to other insurers.  One hopes that market participants and/or regulators could detect and prevent this.

Comments

[Cecil Turner]

Nancy's latest op-ed is the same old drivel:

Reform will mean affordable coverage for all Americans. Our plan's cost-lowering measures include a public health insurance option to bring competitive pressure . . .

Her blog has more of the same:

The CBO report confirms that The America’s Affordable Health Choices Act delivers on a critical promise President Obama and the House have made to the American people: health insurance reform legislation will be paid for.

But what does the CBO report actually say? Well, it's complicated

According to CBO’s and JCT’s assessment, enacting H.R. 3200 would result in a net increase in the federal budget deficit of $239 billion over the 2010-2019 period.

Yeah, all that "disinformation" is hard to counter, even with control of the White House, both houses of Congress, and the press (which increasingly resembles a state propaganda organ; note how USATODAY devotes editorials to support the Speaker of the House's right to speak without contrary views impinging). Luckily we have brave souls like Nancy and the editors of USATODAY . . .

[Thomas Collins]

Add TM's JOM portability reform to a trust established to benefit community hospitals (which trust could be funded with the billions and billions of unspent stimulus dollars) and Congress and Obama would have addressed the most substantial health care concerns (portability plus increased funding for hospitals most likely to be treating folks most at risk (poor and no health insurance).

A thousand page bill would become about a hundred pages (about 99 for the portability provisions and a page amending the stimulus bill to allow unspent stimulus money to fund the community hospital trust).

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Aha, we're proposing our own plans now. Here's one: we establish a uniform insurance code so insurance companies don't have to negotiate T&C with 50 states, or establish federally-chartered mutual insurance companies. Make health insurance uniformly deductable for everyone, or taxable for everyone. Then get the hell out of the way.

[Jane]

I'm in on Chaco's plan.

[Thomas Collins]

Jane likes CHACO's plan and not mine. :-(((

OK, I like CHACO's plan, too. I just think that in the current environment, keeping the structure of employer provided health insurance with a tax exclusion, while including TM portability and helping community hospitals is a simpler fix.

[glenda]

Whatever, they are both better than Obamacare by a century, a mile, a revolution, by two of my favorite guys!!

[Tully]

I have reported Pelosi and Hoyer's fishy claims to [email protected] as requested by our Imperious Leader.

[Extraneus]

And please, Senator or Congressperson, don't expect us to believe you care about health care costs if you're unwilling to address tort reform.

[Fresh Air]

What's fishy is the whole damn thing. Reagan had it right when he said medical matters were a Trojan horse for statism. Forget about "options"--the point is to get government into your life and to convert illegals and Mexican immigrants into clients of the Mediacrat state. Pelosi & Zero couldn't give a damn about the quality of health care; they just want everyone dependent upon the state.

[JM Hanes]

I'm hoping that the reason Republicans have yet to tout alternatives is because they want to let the Democrats keeping digging away at that hole through the August recess. It's the only acceptable excuse. They'd better be ready to put identifiable options on the table when they get back in town, because otherwise the Dems are going to pass something, come hell or high water.

Jim">http://hotair.com/archives/2009/07/20/demint-to-obama-on-health-care-hows-that-stimulus-working-out-champ/&feature=player_embedded">Jim DeMint provided a virtual template when he listed Republican proposals that have been killed by the Dems. Loosely transcribed & edited for purposes here he said:

Republicans have introduced "comprehensive healthcare reform solutions that cover millions of the uninsured, without exploding costs, raising taxes or rationing care," and would "help the uninsured buy their own policies."

Republicans proposals:

Allow Americans to deduct healthcare insurance from their taxes, just as businesses do

Allow Americans to buy health insurance anywhere in the country to make it more competitive and more affordable.

Allow Americans to use money in their health savings accounts to pay for an insurance premium.

Stop frivolous and wasteful lawsuits that cause the cost of medicine to go up.

Introduce association health plans that would allow small businesses to come together so that they could buy policies less expensively.

Those who don't get insurance at work or are unemployed, would get $5,000/year to buy health insurance.

There's a simple, six point "Republican Plan" right there! Shoot, you could hone it down to bullet points on a homemade sign -- not to mention polling the (1018 page) Democratic Plan vs the (6 point) Republican Plan.

People still remember Newt Gingrich's 10 point "Contract with America" even if they don't remember what the 10 points were. If Republicans want to win this battle, not just slow it down, they need a Republican Plan, and they need it now.

[Stephanie]

And the middle of the night visits start...

LUN

[Jane]

WE actually had a really good discussion on health care on the radio this morning. Peter discovered Charles Krauthammer over the weekend and he of course writes about buying insurance across state lines and ending malpractice suits as a remedy to two of the biggest healthcare costs.

SO AMy and I were talking about the malpractice thing. Krauthammer's remedy is that you get rid of the lawyers and the govt has a fund to pay people for lost wages and disability if they have been injured in a malpractice suit. The docs would lose their licenses.

WHat we couldn't figure out is who determines if malpractice occurred? Won't the doc still want to bring in a lawyer? And won't that necessitate some sort of malpractice insurance to pay for the defense?

[Dorothy Jane]

The heathcare website asks for people to send in what they consider to be the top 'myths' surrounding the healthcare debate. These were my suggestions:

Myth# 1. That the people protesting are un-American
Myth# 2. That it will reduce costs

[verner]

I am dead serious. Socialists--whether they are the nationalist, or internationalist type--have no moral bearings and are totally ruthless. The end completely justifies any means with these bozos.

The tea party people need to organize anti-goon squads, and start photographing and filming every single person who appears at those townhalls in a SEIU, ACORN ect. tee.

It would also be a good idea for folks to start wearing those rape whistles--that way if anybody gets in trouble, they can alert the grannies, who can then take their homemade signs and start beating the stuffing out of the socialist thugs.

[Thomas Collins]

Jane, I haven't seen the Krathammer piece. Is his proposal something akin to a workers comp fund? Workers comp systems certainly haven't gotten rid of the lawyers. As far as doctors losing licenses go, doctors will lawyer up as much as anyone else faced with the prospect of losing his or her means of livelihood.

[Thomas Collins]

Any RICO experts in the JOM crowd? I'd be interested in whether the SEIU and affiliated groups may be open to a RICO suit for concerted activity in intimidating folks from exercising their First Amendment rights. RICO's scope is far broader than traditional organzied crime.

[matt]

how does she know if she hasn't read the bill?

[jimmyk]

RICO's scope is far broader than traditional organzied crime.

Generally only if Republicans are the target.

[Jane]

TC I put the Krauthammer bill at the LUN

[jt007]

I have a better proposal. It is called the "If you talk the talk then walk the walk" tax. The precedent for this tax is the AIG bonus tax. The income of all Democrats making over over $250,000 will be taxed at 90%.* There will also be a one time audit of their assets and a 90% surcharge on all of those assets. We will then take the billions of dollars earned from those taxes and provide insurance vouchers for those working poor who cannot afford to buy private insurance and who cannot qualify for government assistance. This, in conjunction with malpractice tort reform, the creation of a national insurance market and the de-coupling of health insurance from employment, will help make insurance available and affordable to everyone. See, it's as easy as that.

*We will perform annual audits thereafter and if for any two year period after this tax is enacted their income dips below 90% of their pre-walk-the-walk-tax levels, we will incarcerate them at the newly vacated Guantanamo prison.

[Extraneus]

According to Towers Perrin, a global professional services firm,

[M]alpractice litigation costs $30 billion a year, and, since 1975, direct costs of litigation avoidance have grown at more than 10 percent annually.

Since half of the lawyers are working on contingency (for 1/3 of the sweepstakes prizes), it has to be that a large percentage of the total legal costs are the awards themselves. Simply limiting the maximum award to something like $250K would drastically reduce this.

But then you look at a puny number like $30B, in this day and age of $800B stimulus bills and $1.3T deficits. It's just a drop in the bucket, really. The government could write a check and cover that without batting an eye. It almost makes one doubtful that cost has anything to do with this health scare fiasco.

[clarice]

Jane, Md has something like this--A panel of medical experts must examine all claims to ascertain their merit before anyone is allowed to file a malpractice suit.I seem to recall that there are recovery limits as well but am less certain of that.
Generally, if the panel okays suitm I think the cases settle.

This weeds out a lot of John Edwards like crapola cases.

You might under Krauthammer's notion have to engage lawyers but as the fees would be minimal compared to our jackpot system there'd probably be a lot less money going to them and a lot less unnecessary testing to avoid their maws.

[clarice]

RC, I wrote about RICO in connection with ACORN--

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/why-arent-the-feds-using-rico-to-go-after-acorn/>RICO RICO

[GMax]

You are expecting AG Holder to prosecute a RICO case against a Union? The same guy who dismissed a prosecution of voter intimidation charges against the New Black Panthers over the objection of career DOJ staff? Surely you jest.

[Extraneus]

Just kidding, btw. I know the real issue is the total cost of defensive medicine. There was a 2004 estimate of how big an elephant that is, based on the "Kessler-McClellan" study, which of course was disputed.

2004 HHS: Defensive medicine that is caused by unlimited and unpredictable liability awards not only increases patients’ risk but it also adds costs. The leading study estimates that limiting unreasonable awards for non-economic damages could reduce health care costs by 5-9% without adversely affecting quality of care. This would save $60-108 billion in health care costs each year. These savings would lower the cost of health insurance and permit an additional 2.4-4.3 million Americans to obtain insurance.

[Thomas Collins]

Thanks, Jane. It sounds like workers comp.

I am as skeptical of the supposed savings from eliminating the current med mal system as I am skeptical of notion that aggressive efforts to tax currently unreported income will make any dent in the deficit. As to taxing employer provided health benefits and providing a tax credit to individuals (sounds similar to the McCain plan), this is better than ObamaCare, but I really think that a lot of folks underestimate the benefits of simply tweaking the current system. The fact of the matter is that while a tax credit sounds better in theory, we have in practice a medical system that is the envy of the world. I think we alter it substantially at our peril.

[Original MikeS]

I'd be interested in whether the SEIU and affiliated groups may be open to a RICO suit...

I hate to be cynical, but if Holder won't prosecute men with billy clubs outside a polling place...

[clarice]

*as the awards fees would be minimal compared to our jackpot system *

[clarice]

Damage Caps

Maryland imposes a limit on recoverable non-economic damages for any personal injury cause of action for medical malpractice accruing after July 1, 1986. Md. Code Ann., Cts. & Jud. Proc. § 11-108 (Supp. 1997). The limit was originally $350,000, but for causes of actions arising on or after October 1, 1994, the limit has been increased to $500,000. Id. Beginning October 1, 1995, and every October 1 thereafter, the limit on non-economic damages is increased by $15,000. Id. Non-economic damages include pain and suffering, inconvenience, physical impairment, disfigurement, loss of consortium, and other non-pecuniary damages, but not punitive damages. Id. The damage cap applies to each "direct victim" of the tort and all those claiming injury by or through him. Id.; Oaks v. Connors, 339 Md. 24, 660 A.2d 423 (1995) (a single cap applies to the injured person's claim and the spouse's consortium claim). This statute does not violate Maryland's constitution. Murphy v. Edmonds, 325 Md. 342, 601 A.2d 102 (1992).

Prior to the 1994 amendment, the statute had been held not to apply to wrongful death cases. United States v. Streidel, 329 Md. 533, 620 A.2d 905 (1993). However, the statute now provides that the cap applies to wrongful death, and that the total recovery of all beneficiaries in a wrongful death case cannot exceed 150 percent of the cap. Md. Code Ann., Cts. & Jud. Proc. § 11-108 (Supp. 1997).

[snip]

Arbitration

Until recently, all claims for medical malpractice had to be reviewed by an arbitration panel under the aegis of the Health Claims Arbitration Office. Md. Code Ann., Cts. & Jud. Proc. § 3-2A-02 (1995). The law formerly allowed a waiver of arbitration if agreed by all parties, Md. Code Ann., Cts. & Jud. Proc. § 3-2A-06A (Supp. 1997), but for claims filed after October 1, 1995, unilateral waiver is permitted. Md. Code Ann., Cts. & Jud. Proc. § 3-2A-06B (Supp. 1997).

If the arbitration panel determines that a health care provider is liable to the claimant or claimants, it then itemizes and apportions damages. Md. Code Ann., Cts. & Jud. Proc. § 3-2A-05 (1995). Although any party may reject the panel's findings, those findings are admissible and presumed correct in any subsequent court proceedings, unless vacated by the court. Md. Code Ann., Cts. & Jud. Proc. § 3-2A-06 (1995). If a subsequent verdict is not more favorable to the rejecting party, the rejecting party is liable to the other for costs. Id.

(So, it appears they've changed it...Too bad.)

[Extraneus]

Heh.

"You want me to tell you what my husband thinks?" she replied incredulously when the male student asked her what "Mr. Clinton" thought of World Bank concerns about a multi-billion-dollar Chinese loan offer to the Congo.

"My husband is not secretary of state, I am," an obviously annoyed Clinton said sharply.

[Jane]

Clarice,

WE have a tribunal system in MA. - which is essentially an extra hoop to jump thru - you argue your claim to a doctor, lawyer and Judge and if they say you don't have a case you have to post a bond. Generally no one on the panels is that big of an expert so they let bad cases in for free and make you post a bond for good cases some of the time.

It's pretty useless all things considered.

[clarice]

I used it once--but never had to go all the way thru the tribunal in Md. As soon as I provided the arbitrators and the other side with my expert opinion they settled.

[Thomas Collins]

Original MikeS, I believe a civil RICO claim can be brought even in the absence of the defendants' being convicted of a crime. Criminal activity is an element of the RICO claim, but a prior criminal conviction is not. So, the DOJ wouldn't have to be involved.

Now, I'm not a RICO expert, so I am happy to be corrected if I have misstated this.

[clarice]

Washington Examiner's health plan proposal:
"So Obamacare opponents must begin making a case for genuine reform in the strongest possible terms. A solid starting point is the Health Care Freedom Plan introduced by Sen. Jim DeMint, R-SC, and the analogous Putting Patients First proposal of the Republican Study Committee (RSC) on the House side. The heart of these alternatives is providing all Americans without employer-provided coverage with vouchers to purchase health insurance that meets their needs from any insurance company in the country. This would create a truly competitive national, private health insurance market and put consumers in control of their coverage, not federal bureaucrats. To pay for the vouchers, TARP financial bailouts would be repealed.

In addition, states would get federal block grants to develop innovative coverage for pre-existing conditions, and caps on medical malpractice suits would put an end to “defensive medicine” whereby doctors order unnecessary tests and procedures to protect themselves against predatory trial lawyers. Finally, health care providers would be required to provide accurate price information for individual services, so that consumers could make knowledgeable decisions. These are the signposts along the road to concrete reform. "

[clarice]

In Ohio, using state law, as I noted in the RICO article, a private group is suing ACORN under RICO. Many states have similar provisions. So if tre's a good claim and Holder won't bring it, perhaps groups in various states can.

[sammy small]

Obama's second major point is that--to quote from the same broadcast--"if you are happy with your plan and you are happy with your doctor, then we don't want you to have to change ... So what we're saying is, If you are happy with your plan and your doctor, you stick with it."

One might accept this at face value for the moment. But what is left out provides the context:

1. How long will the Insurer provide their existing plan that you are happy with? Probably not long.
2. How long will your employer provide it when the Govt subsidizes a plan which costs them less? Probably not long.
3. Can you deal with the astronomic cost increase in premiums that private plans will inevitably incur? Unlikely.

[Thomas Collins]

The LUN indicates that a prior criminal conviction is not a requirement for a civil RICO claim to be successful.

[fdcol63]

Despite what these lying liberal SOB's are saying now, we have ample evidence - in their own words - that their ultimate goal is to establish a government-run, universal, single-payer system.

The "public option" is nothing more than a Trojan Horse intended to kill off private insurance over a phased period, because they know full well that the American public would not tolerate such a system if it were implemented now.

[Thomas Collins]

See LUN for Clarice's RICO article. Clarice, the article refers to you as "retired." It's time for you to come out of retirement and do to ACORN and SEIU what George Foreman did to Michael Moorer when he came out of retirement!

[RichatUF]

TC-

But wouldn't you have to have an actionable civil claim? I recall an identity theft case (Missouri I think) was thrown out because harm couldn't be show and the id theft statute was too tightly drawn to be used to go after a fradulent voter registration.

[clarice]

TC--I've passed the baton..But thanks.

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet]

TC:

A civil RICO suit may be brought by any person harmed "in his business or property" against an enterprise engaged in a pattern of "racketeering activity" as defined in the Act resulting in the harm. It is not easy to make out a damages case under RICO because of a number of court-made limitations (which don't apply to criminal prosecutions).

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

I cannot tell you how much this story upsets me.

Crossposted from other thread:

The man who confronted Congressman Dingell about how the Health Care proposal would affect his son with cerebral palsy had a visit in the middle of the night from the thugs. UNACCEPTABLE!

The video tells the story.

[Jim Ryan]

32% Favor Single-Payer Health Care, 57% Oppose.

O now at 49% approval.

[Extraneus]

Yeah, Jim. And -9 on the index, too. So sad.

[Jim Ryan]

The Wan.

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet]

Here is the third installment of the analysis of the talking points against HR3200 that OL posted Friday:

PG 65 Sec 164 is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in Unions & community orgs (example -ACORN).

Not accurate. This Section sets up a reinsurance program for defined group health plans; eligibility for that program is not limited to union plans.

Pg 72 Lines 8-14 Govt is creating an HC Exchange to bring private HC plans under Govt control.

Accurate that HC Exchange is created by Title II (which begins on P. 72., and ends on P. 143). Title II covers all HC public and private health care plans including Medicare and Medicaid. Title II gives very broad powers to HC Exchange. Unless this federal statute is different from all predecessors (not likely), HC Exchange will exercise significant control over all health care plans.

PG 84 Sec 203 HC bill - Govt mandates ALL benefit pkgs for private HC plans in the Exchange

Accurate

PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specs for Benefit Levels for Plans = The Govt will ration your Healthcare.

Accurate that Section 203 specifies benefit levels for plans. It does not expressly specify the power to ration, but that will be a likely result of this system.

PG 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill - Govt mandates linguistic appropriate services...... Example - Translation for illegal aliens

Accurate that bill requires “linguistically appropriate services”. What this means is not specified, but there is no limitation on who is entitled to this treatment, so illegals presumably would benefit.

Pg 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18 The Govt will use groups i.e., ACORN & Americorps to sign up individually for Govt HC plan

Unclear, but possible and maybe probable under this administration. Section 205 allows the Commissioner to use “…other appropriate organizations” to conduct outreach and informational functions. What is “appropriate” is undefined in the bill.

[bad]

Thank you so much for your analysis, Jim Rhoads. You da bestest!!!

[Jack is Back!]

I know that gross figures sometimes don't tell the story as well as individual's do but this is interesting. Looking at the cost of malpractice insurance and need for tort reform as well as controlling costs in the health industry consider this:

2007-2008 Total enrollment (matriculation) for Law school was 141,433 students nationwide in ABA approved law schools.

2007-2008 Total enrollment (matriculation) for medical school was 18,036 nationwide in AMA approved medical schools.

So, you're a smart kid and looking for a job that will provide a challenge, a future and a comfortable living to raise a family. By the way, in the UK they are also experiencing the same dichotomy of professional ambition. There is a significant shortfall in replacing doctors and nurses as they retire, move on to other less stressful work or die. But there is no shortage of adding lawyers (solicitors and barristers.

To top it all off, PolySci majors are now around 13,000 but decreasing (thank God). And most of those apply to law school than to graduate school.

[daddy]

I want a Health Plan that's going to pay for medical care required as a result of ">http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/wildlife/wolves/story/805010.html"> Wolf ">http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/wildlife/wolves/story/774886.html"> attacks on joggers and bicyclers.

[bad]

Democrats, Heal Thyselves [Mark Hemingway]

Nancy Pelosi and Steny Hoyer this morning:

These disruptions are occurring because opponents are afraid not just of differing views — but of the facts themselves. Drowning out opposing views is simply un-American. Drowning out the facts is how we failed at this task for decades.

Now here's a recent SEIU memo:

Action: Opponents of reform are organizing counter-demonstrators to speak at this and several congressional town halls on the issue to defend the status quo. It is critical that our members with real, personal stories about the need for access to quality, affordable care come out in strong numbers to drown out their voices.

I guess Nancy and Steny didn't get the memo...

[Stephanie]

My dad filed a successful RICO against a RE scamster who sold him a quadplex that was supposed to be worth X but the appraiser was proven to be in on the scam. Got treble damages, I believe. The scamster was subsequently brought up on tax evasion and served jail time. The scamster in question was my uncle and a former democrat in the GA house and big buds with the Peanut Prez...

It can be done... and I would think that the gentleman in St. Louis would have standing... now if more of them start assaulting teapartiers, make it a class action and woo-hoo... the discovery alone would be delicious.

There aren't enough stadiums under construction to hold the bodies...

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

daddy:

I sent an email to Feinstein this morning asking why when California is going down in flames, she is wasting her time on Alaskan Fish and Wildlife matters. I reminded her that she was elected to work for us, not for her moonbat friends and that by us, I mean those who elected her here in California.

[bad]

Dick (emphasis on the DICK) Durbin:

'What I can tell you is that the White House is not trying to collect names of any Americans. What they're trying to do is post on some of these Web sites a rebuttal to some bad information,' pointing to inaccurate rumor[s that] provisions in the proposal might be used to fund abortions, cover undocumented immigrants, or raid Medicare funds. 'There's so much bad information out there, you can understand the effort to at least let people hear both sides of the story,' said Durbin.

As Glenn would say, We're in the best of hands......

Durbin should be made the posterchild for why congress critters need to read the bill before voting.

[Daddy]

Thanks Sara,

There's a start for your anti-Pelosi campaign. What the heck does she know about controlling the wolf population in Alaska. Interesting that she has no problem with Conservationist's accidental poisoning to death of hundreds of endangered Bald Eagles and exotic gulls on uninhabited Rat Island, Alaska, but as for wolves that menace herds, people, dogs, etc, well that's important enough to stick her nose in because Ashley Judd and Greenpeace say so.

[Extraneus]

Lots of people *are* ignorant, and can be fooled, but not nearly as many as Democrats think. This is what they're having trouble with.

At the Dingell town meeting, when he tried to tell the people that Obama is against a single-payer system, the whole room argued back with "You're wrong! He said it himself!"

Those people are paying attention. They've seen the video clips, and know they're being lied to. And their numbers can only grow; they can't shrink. Every day their numbers grow.

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet]

As many Hillary Clinton supporters know, these planned tactics have been a hallmark of Obama's MO at least since he began running for President. He won many caucuses by using this tactic.

Now, unlike during primary season, these tactics are well known, and two can play the same game. That is why tight-faced Nancy and her stooge Steny are commiserating with Boss Wan and demonizing the opposition for imitating the Community Organized in Chief.

[Extraneus]

Hey, Clarice got linked at HotAir. Congratulations, Clarice!

[Thomas Collins]

If ObamaCare goes through, I hope that Jack is Back is not the one deciding which Baby Boomers get care and which don't. I'm a lawyer AND a poly sci major!!!

But give me some slack, Jack is Back. I also dress up as Santa and deliver XMas presents to townfolk. Doesn't that get me SOME "useful person points?" :-))

[Fresh Air]

Jim R--

The tactics only worked at caucuses because they were dealing with Democrats.

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet]

Stephanie:

There is a serious question whether you can recover for personal injuries under RICO, since it specifies that recovery is limited to entities and persons injured in their business or property.

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet]

You have something there, FA. I suspect that the internal info in the polls are not real good even polling just democrats. Hence the hysterical panic among the dem "leadership" decrying what just yesterday were their favorite tactics. They are probably trying to shame anti-health care democrats from allying with republicans and independents.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

I know I've said this before more than once, but both the MSM and politicians are living in the dark ages. I truly believe that they think the American public is still living in the pre-WWII era and can only know what they tell them and nothing more.

In this day of instant communication, even the most remote or isolated citizen can tune in. Out in the rural hinterlands, they now have satellite dishes, they have very sophisticated cell phones and information is transmitted at breakneck speed. Yet these idiots still think that the public waits with baited breath for the nightly news to be told what the bad guys are doing.

To me, everyday is a giant Town Hall meeting when I log in to blog comments or Twitter or watch uploaded YouTubes that give me the visual impact of something that is being ignored by the media.

It drives me crazy. And it makes me as angry as I ever remember being, except for during the protests against the brave men (and women) who served in Vietnam. And you all know that subject can drive me up a wall.

So far this morning, I've cleared text messages on my phone from: Chuck deVore, David Axelrod, Richard Viguerie, Soldier's Angels, the DNC, Conservative Action Alerts, the GOPUSA and two alerting me to the latest from Sarah Palin.

That's just on my phone. Twitter gives me hundreds more and with an RSS feed I monitor over 150 different sites, including media sites.

[clarice]

I did? Thanks. C

[PD]

Well, it's hotter than blazes here in Largo, and humid to boot. But when we dared to venture out for lunch today, I was pleased to see this on the back window of the minivan ahead of us in traffic:

I am 1 of
the "Angry Mob"!

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

And speaking of Chuck deVore, who is planning to unseat Barbara "don't call me M'am" Boxer, his emailed text includes this quote (which will now become my 'quote of the week':

"It will be of little avail to the people, that the laws are made by men of their own choice, if the laws be so voluminous that they cannot be read, or so incoherent that they cannot be understood; if they be repealed or revised before they are promulgated, or undergo such incessant changes that no man, who knows what the law is today, can guess what it will be tomorrow." ------Alexander Hamilton and Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 62, 1788

[Extraneus]

Great quote.

[daddy]

Can anyone link to Clarice's stuff at Hot Air. Sorry not lazy, just short on time. Thanks.

[Stephanie]

Was he not in the process of doing business on the street when he was assaulted? So his sales were directly impacted...

If I were him/he (damn I can't remember my grammar any longer), I would franchise!

Clarice could become a franchisee and branch out from pitchforks...

We could offer to finance him through the Bank of St. Jane's.

[Extraneus]

It's the third one down in "Politics" on the Headlines link right now, daddy, but first in Headlines on their home page.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

The heat is getting to me. Correction: Quote on Federalist 62: James Madison.

[Extraneus]

The whole thing is Madison, 62?

[Extraneus]

How about "Don't sign until we can read it online!"?

[Stephanie]

Too permissive... "until we read" could be read that all we need to do is read and whatever we read we'll be happy... leaves out the question authority aspect of having read it.

Kinda like I've shown you a COLB now aren't you satisfied? What? Shut up...

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Durbin should be made the posterchild for why congress critters need to read the bill before voting.

Durbin can read?

[DebinNC]

Jim R, just wanted to say I appreciate your translating HR 3200 as time allows. Folks going to town halls need to cite provisions of the bill correctly, and your work is very helpful.

[narciso]

The legislature upon in daddy's neck of the woods, has reversed the veto of the energy
vote they continue to perform below the Florida standards, which should be hard to reach, but it has been done, those Twain quotes apply to the leg, as Molly Ivins used to say

[bgates]

What's most important in this debate is that we keep our criticisms measured and restrained. Just ask the solons at National Review:

Palin’s Comments on ‘Death Boards’ [Wesley J. Smith]

Much has been made...about Sarah Palin’s warning against “death boards”...and labeling Obamacare generally an attempt to establish a “downright evil system.”

Palin’s language was, in my view, amateurish and hyperbolic....[T]he admittedly awful health-care reform bills currently being debated don’t come near to earning that opprobrium. As for “death boards,” that term is an overly provocative attempt to describe a key feature of the pending legislation about which there is very real cause for concern.
....
Palin would be a more effective critic of Obamacare if she didn’t write like a college-student blogger.

What we need to look out for is hyperbole, a sure sign of amateurish, college-blogger-level writing. And that's not just me talking, that's straight from the author of "Culture of Death: The Assault on Medical Ethics in America."

[Stephanie]

Krauthammer threw the protesters under the bus .... agreed that the left won the debate last week? What planet is he on? Obamuranus?

Geez. Circular firing squad republicans will be the death of us all...

Should be on Youtube later...

[Parking Lot]

Here ya go Daddy

this is the link that Hot Air linked to with the teaser: Actually, no, Obama's snitch list isn't illegal

Don’t Fret Your ‘Fishy’ Complaints About Health Care Reform

[Extraneus]

Salons is right, bg. I wonder if they read the Legal Insurrection post on the subject.

[Extraneus]

Ah, so Obama's going to face a "potentially boistrous" towh hall in NH tomorrow. Sure.

I'm betting no purple t-shirts on the grassroots crowd, but I'm not laying odds on whether the planted Republicans have emblems on their blazer pockets.

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet]

Thanks, Deb.

I heard the Krauthammer observations. He may be just a tad bit too intellectual to understand visceral reactions from the common folks. Tea Parties are nothing new, and are well represented in our nation's history. Keep in mind that when they attended that party in Boston Harbor, our forbears even destroyed some property IIRC.

[Fresh Air]

Who the hell is Wesley Smith? Cancel my goddamn subscription!

[Fresh Air]

Sara--

I think you are right about the naivete of the Congresscritters. However, there is something greater at play here. Most of the present leaders of the Mediacrats are post-Sixties radicals. (Zero wasn't around then, but he learned from them.) What they are doing is using the same play they always run: ad hominem attacks. This is the only play in their book when it comes to debate. They NEVER debate facts, and have no grasp of logic or reason. That an ad hominem is a logical fallacy is of no consequence to these clowns. Whatever furthers their cause is fine with them.

Now, if you want to be an optimist (which I am), you might conclude that the charges of racism, Nazism, "mobs," etc. is a breech of the Maginot Line, and that the Mediacrats will never recapture what they have lost after this moment. By this I mean that many ordinary, non-linguistic Americans who have been peacefully slumbering are finally awaking to the fact that falsehood is the stock in trade of every Mediacrat.

Distortion, lies, half-truths and ad hominems are all they can offer in support of their positions. If the scales well and truly fall from the slumbering Muddle's eyes, perhaps we can see an end to this scurrilous Alinkskyite form of "debate" once and for all. It's time to return logic and reason to public discourse, and stuff ad hominems, bandwagons, appeals to authority and appeals to emotion in the garbage where they belong.

[Rob Crawford]

Geez. Circular firing squad republicans will be the death of us all...

I'm constantly amazed at the Cringing Conservatives who faint at the sight of a Democrat being made uncomfortable. I think their reflex largely comes from living in majority-left regions, or having livelihoods that depend on the good graces of lefties.

[Extraneus]

Great post, FA. And when they're not arguing fallacies, even their latest order to the troops isn't exactly an argument.

It is critical that our members with real, personal stories about the need for access to quality, affordable care come out in strong numbers to drown out their voices.

[matt]

I just posted on paid community organizers vs "Astroturfers". LUN.

Interesting that the Left has ads up in a dozen major cities for paid activists. I challenged them to find the same among the tea partiers.

[clarice]

Funny, AnnAlthouse (like) thought "death paneL" was an accurate and powerful descriptor.What are they sipping at NRO?

[matt]

P.S. I put in two real, personal stories on the UK system of my own.

[Captain Hate]

Who the hell is Wesley Smith? Cancel my goddamn subscription!

Again those snots at NR (most of 'em) must still get together with Chwis Buckley to commiserate on how the commoners are spoiling their grand vision of an "enlightened" conservatism where all the riff-raff are kept in their place. They severely underestimate how tired most of us are of snarky attacks on Palin and conservatives in general.

[Fresh Air]

Extraneus--

It is critical that our members with real, personal stories about the need for access to quality, affordable care come out in strong numbers to drown out their voices.

Shut up, he explained!

What a bunch of effing geniuses. As though wailing their appeals to emotion will make their "arguments" more persuasive.

[Jim Ryan]

bgates, nice catch.

[Jim Ryan]

When will Ponnoru (author of Party of Death) chime in?

[Captain Hate]

Sara, thanks for that link. Regarding Dingell, how does that louse keep getting elected after what he pulled "investigating" David Baltimore:

When David Baltimore failed to demonstrate what the Congressman considered proper humility in the face of questioning by his committee, Dingell promised his colleagues that he would "get that son of a bitch … and string him up high." Given the fact that the "son of a bitch" in question was a Nobel Laureate and a highly respected molecular biologist, many scientists interpreted the long, drawn-out investigation as an attempt to intimidate all scientists who might become involved in scientific disputes.

[Extraneus]

Aww. Lanny Davis ♥ Lindsey Graham.

[Porchlight]

I've had it with NRO, save Steyn, Hanson and Nordlinger.

[Annoying Old Guy]

Fresh Air;

Feel free to use this graphic

If you really like you can have the rights.
It could make a million for you overnight.
If you don't want to use it you can tell me here,
But I need a break and I want to be a J O M poster!

[Fresh Air]

Porch--

Ditto. Even Goldberg has become a weenie.

[narciso]

Does anybody officially on our side,believe anything anymore. I think Wesley's from Oregon, but as bgates points out, he really can't be too finicky with his critique. Same for Ponnuru, "Party of Death"more like
mid afternoon snooze I guess. Oil drilling
by Jerry Taylor, but only by Exxon's rules