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August 14, 2009

Comments

bad

My apologies to all doctors and lawyers at JOM. I was just snarking at dean.

Porchlight

Thanks, Sue - that's worse than I thought. Can't imagine why anyone would object to that.

Amy Sullivan is such a hack.

PeterUK

Good night Ladies and Gentlemen it is 03:27 AM here.Any posts after this under my name are by Septic.

Willie Sutton

Dean's been around before. He's a non-mendacious and non-hate-filled liberal.

RichatUF

JM Hanes just whacked him with a bat too. A thing of beauty really.

Maybe Obama could sell this whole healthcare fandango by calling it a public-private partnership, a venture as successful as say Fannie Mae, and will improve the delivery of healthcare like the post office has improved package delivery.

And one other bit for the protesters. It is a goofy idea for a protest sign that look like blue mail boxe, with the USPS graphic photoshoped into an Hyptno-Obama logo, and have red tape around it.

Captain Hate

I wonder if the new Axelrod approach is to assign one prolific can't-take-no-for-an-answer salesman to each blog, rather than send the hordes out willy-nilly.

I've yet to figure out the efficacy of their endeavors other than to make complete pests out of themselves, at which they're quite proficient. Well done at responding to all the minutiae, although I still haven't figured out why they're arguing that rather than the much larger question of why we need such a leviathan of legislation to "fix" something that only the MSM and other assorted Oholes think is badly broken.

Porchlight

Good night, PUK. I love that you give us that little heads up. :)

Oscar in Miami Beach

This things about "death panels" already exists.Is it not not being accepted by an insurance company because of pre-existing condition to be covered and get proper medical assistance "death panels"?.Is this what this people that talk about death panels want to continue?.Probably yes because these people are the ones that can pay for their medical problems with out of pocket money like the ex-Gov of Alaska and the Sen from Arizona and the Gov of Texas,etc...They want to continue the status quo because they have the upper hand and do not want to loose it.They can go to the better doctors because they can pay for it but poor people can't just because they have diabetes or obesity or any other situation that the current health plans indiscriminatly exclude.Double standard is what these people do not want to loose.

Captain Hate

G'nite PUK; I usually know when the ebonic tapeworm is sockpuppeting you: The comments aren't funny nor intelligent.

Porchlight

Dean was certainly among the more polite of our recent visitors from Obamaland, which I appreciated. He ain't no Septic.

Sue

http://www.punditreview.com/2009/08/join-us-supporting-the-jared-c-monti-scholarship-fund/>Medal of Honor recipient scholarship fund needs money.

At a time when partisan bickering over healthcare reform is at a fever pitch, Pundit Review and Massachusetts leading liberal blog Blue Mass Group are putting politics aside to try to raise money for to support Jared’s legacy and Scholarship Fund. Jared fought and died for all Americans, and supporting his scholarship fund seems like the least we can do in return.

If you are so inclined...

RichatUF

My last was barely in English:

a goofy idea for a protest sign that look like blue mail boxe-> a goofy idea for a protest sign that looks like a blue mail box...

I can imagine it better than I can write it. Anyway.

Captain Hate

obesity or any other situation that the current health plans indiscriminatly exclude.

Yeah there are no rich fat people :rolleyes. You know there's a reason you're on the 10 oclock shift.

Stephanie

OT LUN for Bloomberg on the crisis of Non-performing (Non-Accrual) loans...

They didn't study the TARP banks ...

Sue

Probably yes because these people are the ones that can pay for their medical problems with out of pocket money like the ex-Gov of Alaska and the Sen from Arizona and the Gov of Texas,etc...

Yeah, that would include the likes of me. I have lots of out of pocket money. It's certainly out of my pocket. ::grin::

RichatUF

The link isn't right Stephanie.

scott

How will Dr's be forced to participate in obamacare?

As it is many don't accept Medicaid.

Many of the best specialists, like hand surgeons, don't accept insurance at all.

Cash.

Those are the cats I'm going to see. The best ones I can afford with my money.

I would hope I could refuse to see any Doc who participates in this disaster.

I think on the news they just said Murtha doesn't see a vote this year so maybe it's all over but the shouting.

Ranger

Yes, Hot Air has a link to CNN:

A bill to overhaul the nation's ailing health-care system may not pass until January or later, Democratic Rep. John Murtha of Pennsylvania said Friday.

Hmmmm... Is that the Old Guard breaking under the withering fire of the town hall meetings?

Murtha just squeeked by last round, and he's losing all of the big money that pulled him through. Sounds like he knows that if this gets rammed through he is toast in his disctrict.

Porchlight

I dunno. Murtha's comment sounds like a fakeout attempt to me. We can't let up the pressure.

JM Hanes

Anyone who can quote this with a straight face......

What we do want is to eliminate some of the waste that is being paid for out of the Medicare trust fund that could be used more effectively to cover more people and to strengthen the system.

...... is just too young to understand the code.

I must say, I appreciate our guest's civil earnestness too. It's not easy to respond to an entire room full of critics by yourself. Perhaps that's how he could end up saying something like this:

It empowers you to be able to make decisions at a difficult time rather than having the government making them for you.
The government will empower you to make the decisions you're currently making by yourself on your own, in order to keep government out of the decision making process it's not currently in. Or something.

Ranger

No, never let up the presure. This sounds like a warning shot to Obama and Pelosi though. Or maybe a trial baloon to see how the lefty base reacts to a pause.

Stephanie

Try again...

LUN

RichatUF

If there is any single pig in the House that could cock up the Dems attempts at healthcare, it would be Murtha. I'm skeptical he would cave this early in the process, seeing as how Obama could have the FBI haul him away over his earmarking.

JM Hanes

If you're here tomorrow, PUK, thanks for your pointer to the gnashing of teeth over at HuffPo. Actually, it wasn't so much the gnashing I enjoyed, as it was the plaintive exit question:

The question: 'who really is Barack Obama?' is more compelling than ever. The answer looks to be more and more disheartening.
Can we say told ya? Why, yes we can.

PaulL

Palin has been doing a knock out job of laying out the traps (rationally!) and single handedly setting Obamacare back on its heels. I hereby officially retract my previous critique of her leadership. She has turned offensive media into a media offensive in the most politically astute fashion Republicans have seen in a long, long time.

Yeh! JM Hanes. Reading that makes me happy.

scott

Good point - pressure should probably "go to 11" right about now.

Strategery's not one of my strong points!

JM Hanes

Ranger:

"And the Stimulus Bill was going to save or create 2, no 3, no 4 million jobs..."

Even before that slope got slippery, Obama was saying it would "create" millions of jobs. I remember it like it was yesterday. Sitting there, watching YouTube in my bathrobe, time just seemed to stand still, when I heard Gibbs introduce create "or save." I knew the world would never be the same again.

RichatUF

Thanks for the link. Colonial was shut by the FDIC this evening. In an inauspcious sign, a few days ago, the FBI came in with warrants at their Orlando office and spent about 6 hours looking over documents.

JM Hanes

PaulL:

So much for all those pundits who declared her resignation a career killer, eh? Probably the same crowd who seem embarrassed by the passions on display at Tea Parties.

Ignatz

--Let me also address I think a misperception that's been out there that somehow there is any discussion on Capitol Hill about reducing Medicare benefits. Nobody is talking about reducing Medicare benefits. Medicare benefits are there because people contributed into a system. It works. We don't want to change it. What we do want is to eliminate some of the waste that is being paid for out of the Medicare trust fund that could be used more effectively to cover more people and to strengthen the system.--

Dean is very polite (Hi Dean!) and quite dishonest.
Obama has proposed cutting about $500 billion out of medicare over ten years. Included in this is what is referred to as the subsidy to the insurance companies, otherwise known as Medicare Advantage. This program subsidizes medicare premiums and provides coverage for dental, vision and physical rehab. I think it also has some benfits for extended care. The large majority of the people who have MA have an income under $20,000. Without MA these folks will lose coverage and be forced to pay the standard medicare premium of $1500-3000 per year. They're losing benefits and going to pay more for it.
Now as a libertarian I think the whole medicare thing is unconstitutional and leads to bad choices and is unsustainable, but that doesn't give polite and friendly Dean license to lie about what these people have planned.
And anybody that can say with a straight face that this time for sure the government is really, really going to get rid of fraud, waste and abuse, especially an administration so profoundly allergic to the mere existance of any IG who isn't a lap dog is simply talking through his hat.

PaulL

Off topic a bit, but Obama has as a chief scientific adviser one John Holdren, whose pronouncements about the need to cull the herd make Emanuel's brother sound like a Franciscan.

Tell it!

caro
Can we say told ya? Why, yes we can.
I see a DC 9/12 march sign, JMH.
clarice

Obama has misreresented Isakson's role and views--from his website-

WASHINGTON – U.S. Senator Johnny Isakson, R-Ga., today denounced comments made by President Obama and his spokesman regarding Isakson’s alleged connection to language contained in the House health care bill on “end-of-life counseling.”

Isakson vehemently opposes the House and Senate health care bills and he played no role in drafting language added to the House bill by House Democrats calling for the government to incentivize doctors by offering them money to conduct “end-of-life counseling” with Medicare patients every five years. Isakson also strongly opposed the House bill language calling for doctors to follow a government-mandated list of topics to discuss with patients during the counseling sessions.

By contrast, Isakson took a very different approach in July during the Senate HELP Committee hearings on the Senate version of the health care bill. Isakson’s amendment to the Senate bill says that anyone who participates in the long-term care benefit provided in the bill – if they so choose – may use that benefit to obtain assistance in formulating their own living will and durable power of attorney.

Isakson’s amendment, which was accepted unanimously by all Republicans and Democrats on the Senate HELP Committee, empowers the individual to make their own choices on these critical issues, rather than the government incentivizing doctors to conduct counseling on government-mandated topics. Isakson ultimately voted against the Senate health care bill.

“This is what happens when the President and members of Congress don’t read the bills. The White House and others are merely attempting to deflect attention from the intense negativity caused by their unpopular policies. I never consulted with the White House in this process and had no role whatsoever in the House Democrats’ bill. I categorically oppose the House bill and find it incredulous that the White House and others would use my amendment as a scapegoat for their misguided policies,” Isakson said. “My Senate amendment simply puts health care choices back in the hands of the individual and allows them to consider if they so choose a living will or durable power of attorney. The House provision is merely another ill-advised attempt at more government mandates, more government intrusion, and more government involvement in what should be an individual choice.”

###

"

Captain Hate

Btw, did anybody catch Il Douche's line at the town hall today that half of the "plan" he's peddling's annual cost of $80 billion (far less than the CBO said) could be paid for by reducing the tax deduction for charitable giving for people making over $250K? Columbia and Harvard must be so proud.

Pofarmer

Obama said he was gonna fix education in Chicago.

How'd that work out?

Is Deans last name Axlerod?

RichatUF

I missed it. I thought that idea died a quick death earlier in the year. I suppose with Obama, bad ideas don't really exist, they just need more lipstick.

Pofarmer

Would somebody tell me something?

Why is how much the U.S. spends privately on healthcare such a big deal?

It's peoples money. People can, generally, spend money however they chose. If the U.S. spends that much on Healthcare, doesn't that indicate that we WANT to? Rather than indicate some nefarious imbalance in the force or something?

JM Hanes

... more lipstick ... LOL!

Pofarmer

Found an interesting blog post on health care costs .

LUN so you can see the graphs.

This month, the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) released a comprehensive health data report, comparing health care statistics across OECD countries. Their website and study can be found here and an excel file with a sampling of their data is also available. With the recent flurry around the Obama administration’s health care proposals, it feels like a good time to look at some of the more interesting data sets to me:

* Healthcare Spending as a % of GDP
* Doctor Consultations, Number per Capita
* Hospital Beds per 1000 Population

Healthcare spending as a % of GDP: 2006

image

Source: Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development

Doctor Consultations, Number per Capita: 2006

image

Source: Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development

Hospital Beds per 1000 Population: 2006

image

Source: Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development

These three graphs highlight some key relationships amongst the sample countries:

* The US has the highest health care spend as a % of GDP at 16%, but is on the lower end of doctor consultations and number of hospital beds per capita. This suggests the higher spending in the US isn’t necessarily related to volume of doctor visits and stays in hospital visits; but rather the cost per visit is likely higher than other countries.
* Interestingly, Japan has the highest number of doctor visits and hospital beds per capita, but at 8% of GDP, is half of the US level and lower than most of the European countries. They’ve created a system which supports more visits, but clearly less expensive individual visits.
* European countries are fairly consistent in their level of GDP % but vary in doctor visits and hospital beds.

In this week’s Newsweek magazine, I read an article that provides some additional insight into how the culture and priorities of the US, Japan, and UK explain some of these data relationships. Jacob Weisberg reviews the recently released book, The Healing of America, by TR Reid in his article We Are What We Treat, Fixing health care, American Style. A noteworthy passage:

“In his new book The Healing of America, the journalist T. R. Reid employs a clever device for surveying the world’s health systems: he takes an old shoulder injury to various countries. In the United States, a top orthopedist recommends joint-replacement surgery, costing tens of thousands of dollars. In France and Germany, doctors steer him instead toward a regime of physical therapy. In Britain, they tell him to go home. In India, he is treated, quite effectively, with herbs, massage, and meditation……. the lesson I took away from his book was somewhat different: health-care systems are not just policy choices, but expressions of national character and values. The alternatives he describes work not just because they’re well designed but because they reflect the expectations and traditions of their societies.”

Weisberg goes on to write,

“All advanced, wealthy countries have health systems that are more egalitarian and cost-effective than ours (the US). Each also has its quirks, which reinforce familiar stereotypes. Britain, land of the stiff upper lip, provides what to us seems shockingly minimalist treatment. It doesn’t even cover regular physicals for adults, which is what you get when you spend 8 percent GDP on health care (versus our 16 percent). The Japanese, on the other hand, love doctors and visit them, on average, 14.5 times per year, three times the U.S. rate. They do this in an orderly, ritualized way, usual-ly bringing a bottle of sake or cash in an envelope as a gratuity.”

An interesting way to think about national health care policies and spending levels. Figuring out the best type of reforms to the US health care policy will be difficult, but it may not be as simple as following a country that spends less than the US without considering both the national character of that country as well as tailoring the policies to the unique characteristics of the US.

Pofarmer

BTW, I really do wonder how much of our high health care costs are already caused BY the govt.

Captain Hate

Is Deans last name Axlerod?

Po, as others have said he was remarkably well-behaved for a troll, perhaps the only Mormons for Bammers member. Still he kind of creeped me out a bit with the way with the way he was saying "Hi" to everybody and those weird little wink/smiles he appended far too many comments with.

Night all.

Stephanie

The president says his intent was not to target all big companies. He said some, like Aetna, are working with the administration on overhaul. But he said others are spending money to oppose his efforts to remake the system.

Translation: Chicago Politics.

Just like the 95%+ of car dealerships that were closed down that were owned by non-contributors to the Obama campaign or the DNC, the “only” insurance companies targeted by the White House are those who are “spending money to oppose” Obama.

Anyone expect them to design health care any other way?

They already have a study from some school that said that conservatism was a mental disorder... I forget which one.

LUN

Pofarmer

Well Capn, reading through the thread, he simply repeated the same thing over and over and over, without acknowledging any arguments. Typical troll behavior. I especially liked the link to the plans while saying there was nothing there that wouldn't prevent private plans. However, it's fairly obvious that it's not fair competition if you are regulating the guys you're competing with. That's shooting fish in a barrel.

JBS

Dean, can you cite to any specific person who has described 1233 as constituting or containing a death panel? Who, specifically said this?

bgates

The Japanese...usually bring cash in an envelope as a gratuity.

Wonder what "cash in an envelope" * (fraction of total denoted by "usually") * 14.5 times/year/person * population of Japan works out to as a percent of GDP.

JM Hanes

caro:

Potential signage is just bustin' out all over. If I hadn't gotten so bogged down in holding forth on the web today, I might have gotten that bullet point plan email I'm planning to send you under way! Sept. 12 suddenly doesn't seem so far off, does it?

Just saw some coverage of a Raleigh demonstration. The tea party folks, all very civil, expressed intelligent objections; the pro-reform contingent went with the street theatre theme. It occurs to me that maybe the local coverage people are seeing is much less skewed than the national coverage authored from distant perches. An under-the-radar phenom like that could be a big part of why the numbers are shifting toward the opposition.

Can't remember where Murtha was mentioned tonight, but wow. If that rat is abandoning ship, Pelosi must be taking on serious water.

Speaking in Bentleyville, Pennsylvania, Murtha said House Speaker Nancy Pelosi wanted a health-care bill passed before the current August recess.

"She said we're going to have it before we left," Murtha said. "We said, 'No, no, we want some time to think about this.' We're taking some time to make sure it's done right. I don't know that we'll get something done before January, and even then we may not get it done. We're going to do it right when it's finally done."

There are deep divides between Democrats and Republicans over the health-care issue, and Murtha said more time is needed to come up with a solution that works.

"We said to the speaker, the leadership, let's not rush this thing," he said. "Let's do it right, so we'll have a uniquely American plan, if the thing passes.

John Murtha, Mr. Bipartisan in the flesh.

Stephanie

So it is written, so let it be done...


LUN

windansea

OT

suicide bomber blast outside US embassy Kabul

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/kabul-bomb-attack-us-embassy

Pofarmer

If the bill doesn't have a public insurance plan to compete with private ones, do the insurance companies win? I asked. "The public option is something that the vast majority of Americans want. They know that the enemy is the insurance industry," Reid said. But he added that the public option "is not the only thing that's important." It's also important, he said, to make sure insurance companies can't deny policies to people who have pre-existing conditions or drop people if they develop a problem.

The House, with a large Democratic majority, is expected to pass a bill with a public option in it. If the Senate version doesn't have one, I asked, does the public option have a shot when Senate and House negotiators meet to smooth out their differences in a conference committee?

"I'm not going to -- I have to get a bill off the floor," Reid said with a low chuckle. "So I'm not going to be threatening or suggesting anything that might come in conference. Get the picture?" I did.

Why you shouldn't trust this bill, in Harry Reids own words.

Via Gateway Pundit.

Ann

Windansea,

Your link is to a story that happened: November 26, 2008 at 10:26 pm. Do you have a bad link?

JM Hanes

Stephanie:

Thanks, I needed that! Enjoyed every last paragraph, and hope Obama continues to denounce the media for devoting so much more airtime to the ruckus than those constructive meetings going on all over the country. Some industrious winger could make hay with this bit, I should think:

"You can't tell us how you're going to pay for this," Rathie said of Obama's health care overhaul. "The only way you're going to get that money is raise our taxes."

"You are absolutely right," Obama said. "I can't cover another 46 million people for free. I can't do that. We're going to have to find money from somewhere."

He noted a congressional estimate that legislation being considered in the Senate could cost $800 billion to $900 billion over 10 years.

Obama has proposed higher taxes for families earning more than $250,000 a year. He said there were also other ways to find money, including streamlining the system and eliminating what he said were subsidies to insurance companies.

I heard that David Axelrod will send you a complete list of all the things the filthy rich are going to pay for, as soon as he gets your email address and your medical records.

caro

JMH, I am standing by. Signage R Us.

What you have written today is great, by the way.

Soylent Red

This has all been fascinating regarding the specific language of the bill.

Could someone direct me to the specific language that empowers any branch of the Federal government to promulgate and enforce law establishing a national healthcare system, and using my tax dollar to do it?

The document you would be looking for that in is the Constitution.

Stephanie

The document you would be looking (in vain) for that in is the Constitution.

FTFY

hit and run

Well. Andrew Breitbart's "crazy theory" posted on facebook.

Andrew Breitbart My crazy theory: The 'stupid party' - Republicans - have a smart Obama strategy. Takes away the target(s) on which Alinsky trained 'community organizers' can prey. The lack of GOP leadership or an emergent GOP figurehead IS the strategy. Forces Obamaites to demonize average citizens who stick their necks out. That's predictably backfired. It also shows he has less weapons than we thought.5 hours ago

Heh. I only heh because I don't think the GOP itself is nearly this "smart". I think it more likely they've lucked into this position.

I just hope the GOP's not so "smart" that they try and bust in and get in Sarah's way.

But Obama ruined "hope" for me, so, I'm not holding my breath.

JM Hanes

Thanks, caro. :-)


Soylent!

You clearly need to sign up for Obama's Chicago Seminar:
More Perfect Union: Your Constitutional Kitchen Sink.

Stephanie

AB's crazy theory could also be interpreted as firing from a duck blind....

Cheney, you magnificent bastard!

bgates

Soylent, that's Article 1, Section 8:
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;

You may argue that the specific enumeration of Congressional powers that follow this sentence is comprehensive, and that the entire logic of a limited federal government dissolves if Congress needs only justify any action by saying (as every government everywhere has always maintained) that its actions will provide for the general welfare, and that voluminous writings of the chief architect of the Constitution validates this view.

I would then respond that you are a racist, and/or opposed to the will of the people. For at least the last 75 years, that's been enough to win that argument.

JM Hanes

Hope everybody's irony meters have been in for a tune up recently, because Robert Gibbs told reporters yesterday that:

"We're near the beginning of the legislative process and there's a long way to go. The president intends to get and sign health care reform this year."
Next week: Heads Explode at White House, Medical Examiner faults cognitive dissonance and leaded lettuce, but mostly cognitive dissonance.

JM Hanes

Oops, bgates, I meant Ba'ab Ghibz, of course.

Fresh Air

Breitbart should be smart enough to know, as Leah from New Hampshire is that the Republican party has nothing whatsoever to do with any of the town hall protests. Now we've got the world's most arrogant midget, Robert Reich, declaring these things are being "astroturfed."

So, no, it's not a strategy, because it isn't being effected by the Republican party. It's simply the virtuous consequence of good conservatives, libertarians and overtaxed moderates doing the right thing at the right time for the right reasons.

hit and run

JMH, quoting Gibbs:
The president intends to get and sign health care reform this year."

Wait.

I thought it was health insurance reform?

WTF?

Next Gibbs will tell us that Cap and Trade is trying to help stop Climate Change Global Warming.

And that Obama is conducting the global war on terror overseas contingency operations to address the threat from man-made disasters terrorism.

At this rate, some time next week, Gibbs will no doubt be telling us that the Comparative Effectiveness Commission Death Panels are vital to health insurance care reform!

Fresh Air

Po---

If the U.S. spends that much on Healthcare, doesn't that indicate that we WANT to?

Medical costs have been moving up in lockstep with veterinary costs over the past 10 years. You are exactly correct.

I really don't get it either. That's why I have to assume the whole thing is just another ploy to dictate to people how to live their lives, and if possible rig the system so it keeps electing Mediacrats in perpetuity.

hit and run

TM just got a shout-out on Greg Gutfeld's Red Eye for this post calling out the NYTs for not reading their own paper!

Well, sure they're onto some Japanese transvestive youtube something now, but still.

Greg Gutfeld uttered the words, "Tom Maguire".

[VIMH: WTF are you doing up late enough to watch Red Eye?]
Hey, in central time zone, it's one hour less later!

[VIMH: OK, but you're still watching Red Eye]
It's my brother-in-law's tv/satellite/dvd/home stereo set up and I'm now old enough that I have no idea how to turn the blasted thing off.

Cecil Turner

I see I caused some confusion with the section 1181 reference, for which I apologize. The section in the bill is 1401, which adds a new section 1181 to the social security act. For purposes of this conversation, the reference ought properly to be 1401. (And since my previous quote snipped down to the bare bones and left only the section 1181 header, here it is with the headers:

SEC. 1401. COMPARATIVE EFFECTIVENESS RESEARCH.
(a) IN GENERAL.—title XI of the Social Security Act
is amended by adding at the end the following new part:
‘‘PART D—COMPARATIVE EFFECTIVENESS RESEARCH
‘‘COMPARATIVE EFFECTIVENESS RESEARCH
‘‘SEC. 1181. (a) CENTER FOR COMPARATIVE EFFECTIVENESS RESEARCH ESTABLISHED.—
‘‘(1) IN GENERAL.—The Secretary shall establish within the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality a Center for Comparative Effectiveness Research (in this section referred to as the ‘Center’) to conduct, support, and synthesize research (including research conducted or supported under section 1013 of the Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement, and Modernization Act of 2003) with respect to the outcomes, effectiveness, and appropriateness of health care services and procedures in order to identify the manner in which diseases, disorders, and other health conditions can most effectively and appropriately be prevented, diagnosed, treated, and managed clinically. [emphasis added]
Of course, they aren't going to do anything with the information once they get it . . . they just want to know.

Extraneus

I can imagine how to measure and analyze the "effectiveness" of services and procedures, but maybe someone can tell us how research is done on "appropriateness." That's not obvious to me.

Yes, Dean was a mannerly plant, and apparently one of the people who wrote and understood the House bill, but he was also quite disingenuous, never straying from his straw man argument equating 1233 with "death panels."

Cecil Turner
He noted a congressional estimate that legislation being considered in the Senate could cost $800 billion to $900 billion over 10 years.
More accurate would be to say it cost a bit over a trillion, and they'd plan to save a couple hundred billion. (And add a bunch of taxes.) Here's the CBO report:
According to CBO’s and JCT’s assessment, enacting H.R. 3200 would result in a net increase in the federal budget deficit of $239 billion over the 2010-2019 period. That estimate reflects a projected 10-year cost of the bill’s insurance coverage provisions of $1,042 billion, partly offset by net spending changes that CBO estimates would save $219 billion over the same period, and by revenue provisions that JCT estimates would increase federal revenues by about $583 billion over those 10 years.
Another CBO report suggests the cost saving for preventative care is nonexistent, and CBO testimony suggests the government share is unsustainable (and that's after the initial round of tax-raising).

For those like our friend Dean, who claim streamlining the system will save substantial sums, maybe we ought first to experiment with the system already in place, rather than losing money on every transaction and trying to make it up on volume.

Extraneus

Hey, Jim Treacher. If you're still here, cool t-shirts.

you_did_did_ya.jpg

Jane

So much for all those pundits who declared her resignation a career killer, eh?

I love love love the Palin part of this story. It's amazing that the stupidest politician on the face of the earth has managed to single-handedly take the rest of them down.

"She's a quitter, she needs to learn more, she can't handle the heat"

Yeah right. Kiss my ...

PeterUK

It is said Reinhardt Heydrich was an intelligent and cultured man,no doubt mannerly.
I would rather the devil had horns.

Extraneus

Yes, and it all started with this one paragraph:

The Democrats promise that a government health care system will reduce the cost of health care, but as the economist Thomas Sowell has pointed out, government health care will not reduce the cost; it will simply refuse to pay the cost. And who will suffer the most when they ration care? The sick, the elderly, and the disabled, of course. The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama’s “death panel” so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their “level of productivity in society,” whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil.
It was Obama who tried to misdirect with the following sleight of hand:
It turns out that I guess this arose out of a provision in one of the House bills that allowed Medicare to reimburse people for consultations about end-of-life care, setting up living wills, the availability of hospice, etc.
He deserves the consequences.

PeterUK

Two things fuelled this,both from Obama.
That health care drove the deficit,and health care could be expanded without increased cost.
This was so economically illiterate as to arouse the suspicions of even the most politically dormant.

Pofarmer

Well, I never could understand how health care costs could drive the deficit. I mean, really, how do private expenditures affect the Federal deficit?

Inquiring minds and all that.

Are we now supposed to manage our affairs to make sure that the benevolent govt. gets the largest share possible of the pie?

Extraneus

Good news!

Obama Willing To Be One-Term President Over Health Care

centralcal

Good morning.

Is anybody else noticing that while all eyes are on the great big grass fire spreading across our nation (the Health (Death) Care debate, there is a smaller fire burning?

The lefties are always busy, busy. They have an apparently successful advertiser boycott campaign against Glenn Beck that is gaining steam. Accusing him of "hate speech" because he asked if Obama was a racist. We should all be very nervous about this, since we know they will not stop at Beck. If successful - and it appears they are being quite organized and successful - they will go after others on our side.

I have already written to Sargento Cheese (one of the pulled ads.) I hope others of you will find the time to do the same to some of the advertisers who are being pressured.

Tina

The NYTimes and others said that SCJohnson and GEICO both pulled their ads from Beck. I contacted both companies -- both have informed me that they have NOT pulled their ads and the reporting is false.

Sargento on the other hand confirmed to me they have pulled ads; I informed them I have put them on my items not to purchase list.

PeterUK

Pofarmer.
I always mistrust those who insist that "People have something for their own good"

Pofarmer

Obama Willing To Be One-Term President Over Health Care

If he keeps on, it's not gonna matter if he's willing to be a one-term Presidebt or not.

Pofarmer

Just what in the hell is going on here?

CLERMONT - Clermont police have interviewed one suspect who is admitting to putting up the dozens of posters pasted around the city depicting President Obama as the Joker character from the Batman film The Dark Knight, city officials confirmed.

Assistant City Manager Darren Gray said city officials have an individual "admitting to putting up 500" of the posters.

Clermont Police Capt. Eric Jensen said the male individual has admitted to putting up some signs, but investigators suspect others were involved and their investigation is continuing.

"We have talked to an individual," Jensen said. "He only admitted to some of it...We're still tracking down leads and talking to folks. We have not arrested anybody."

At this point officials are not sure how much damage was caused by the signs or the dollar amount associated with the clean-up.

Dozens of the posters were pasted around the city earlier this week. A pair of the posters were pasted to a Clermont Post Office collection box. They prompted the postmaster to contact the Postal Inspector's office, which is looking at potential federal crimes for defacing federal property.

City officials, meanwhile, are trying to determine what local crimes might be associated with the posting of the images on public and private properties. They've also been busy ripping down the sticky signs because they're a violation of city ordinance regarding illegal signs.

Jensen said he doesn't have a good count on the number of posters put up because, he said, "People are going out and tearing them down."

In a press release put out late today, Jensen said the suspect "also asked if he could video tape the encounter with the officers." Clermont Police declined that request.

"Currently we are still conducting interviews of victims, witnesses, and other suspects who were placing the Obama Joker Poster throughout our city," Jensen said in the statement. "We believe that the postings are the result of multiple suspects. We are hopeful that we can develop enough information to present charges of vandalism to the State Attorney's Office for review."

He did not have a specific reason why the individual who admitted to putting up the posters spent so much time sticking them to surfaces around the city, but Jensen suspects it may have something to do with a contest linked to the image of the President in white face and smeared lipstick, like the Joker.

Check back for more details.

What are they gonna charge him with?

PeterUK

Tina,
What needs to be ascertained is,whether lefties actually buy Sargento products.

Here,we had a vociferous campaign to ban smoking in public houses. The left rallying cry was,"We would go in pubs,but for all the smoke" . They lied through their teeth. When the ban was implemented the hordes of "My body is a temple" brigade failed to materialise.Now six pubs a day are shutting down for good.
There is always a lie at the centre of leftism. The trick is to expose it.

PeterUK

The Joker Speaks. Too late the Joker lives.Pass it on.

Extraneus

Like one of the commenters said about the video PUK just linked:

We have to invent a new word to express how totally McBitchin’ this is!

centralcal

Cool link, PUK.

Tina: My understanding is that advertisers (other than Sargento) MOVED their ads to other FNC shows.

Jane

I twittered it PUK and gave you credit. Hope that is okay.

DebinNC

Piece today at AT about the "death panel" up and running as part of Porkulus. Dr. Death Emanuel is one of the panelists already busily at work.

Captain Hate

This was so economically illiterate as to arouse the suspicions of even the most politically dormant.

We might as well make it a hat-trick of economic dumbfuckery with "There can't be an economic recovery without major health-care reform". Can you imagine the column miles that would be expended by political hack posing as an economist Krugman would write about that if Boooosh had said any of those things?

narciso

I'm kind of a little amused of Andrew's theory, seeing as much of the GOP after Rush's "I want him to fail" statement went into a defensive crouch, and I'm being charitable. That was even true among those
'respectable' bloggers, Patterico and Ace, who said he was a 'good man' and 'deserved
a chance' I recall It was up to the Governors, to mount the campaign against the stimulus Sanford (don't remind me) Perry, Jindal, and Palin. The RNC and the NRSC do we even have to rehash their pitiful performance, Specter, Crist, the
NY congressional race. At one point, the House members were posting on the Huffington Post to get attention, that was kind of the nadir

Porchlight

Cecil, thanks for the update on Sec. 1401. One thing, though, I think maybe another passage is more telling than the one you bolded:

to conduct, support, and synthesize research (including research conducted or supported under section 1013 of the Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement, and Modernization Act of 2003) with respect to the outcomes, effectiveness, and appropriateness of health care services and procedures in order to identify the manner in which diseases, disorders, and other health conditions can most effectively and appropriately be prevented, diagnosed, treated, and managed clinically. [emphasis added]

Appropriateness....an interesting choice of words, don't you think?

Porchlight

This point is mundane to the point of banality, but with majorities against ObamaCare in nearly every poll, how do the media get away with saying the protesters are only right-wing whackjobs? The numbers just don't support that. And the Congressjerks have to know it by now.

Karl Lembke

If a Government Option is implemented, it will either cost more than private insurance, cost the same, or cost less. If it costs the same or more, no problem. If it costs less, those of us whose health insurance is paid for by someone else may find ourselves switched over to it. Drop the price low enough, and private options "wither on the vine", leaving the government option the only option -- a single payer system.

And single-payer will wind up meaning single-decider.

Barbara

SEC. 1181. (a) CENTER FOR COMPARATIVE EFFECTIVENESS RESEARCH ESTABLISHED.—

Of course, they aren't going to do anything with the information once they get it . . . they just want to know.

This reminds me of the not-so-sly comment made the Cyclops as he tried to find out where Odysseus had hidden all of his men. "Tell me, so I'll know."

boris

"If it costs the same or more, no problem"

ISTM the strategery is you can keep your current private coverage (for as long as it lasts) but the only changes allowed will be the public plan or a diminishing set of very restricted private plans ... which will rapidly become more and more expensive as the government increases the number of hoops they have to jump through while narrowing the window size.

Porchlight

Rasmussen: 54% Say Passing No Healthcare Reform Better Than Passing Congressional Plan

Considering the Dem spin is that "only the naysaying status quo-loving GOP says doing nothing would be better than passing ObamaCare," I'd say this is pretty significant.

Pofarmer

ISTM the strategery is you can keep your current private coverage (for as long as it lasts) but the only changes allowed will be the public plan or a diminishing set of very restricted private plans ... which will rapidly become more and more expensive as the government increases the number of hoops they have to jump through while narrowing the window size.

Exactly

Pofarmer

But, Porchlite, it's for our own good, after all.

cathyf

We already have the panels -- they were established by the porkulus bill. (Somebody else already quoted the statutory language.) What the health bill does is to convert the already-enacted panels into death panels. By destroying private contracting in health insurance, the panels will have the power to put people to death, whereas without the health bill's destruction of private contracts, people still have the ability to privately contract something other than the policies that the death panels implement.

RichatUF

Extraneus-

I found it odd that Obama had his astroturfers working the night before his NH plastic turkey event quoting the GA Senator and conflating Sec. 1233 and "death panels". I suppose the NH event didn't go off quite as planned (that is what they deserve by having an 11 year old toss out the softball) and the former governor had a response ready the same day. For a team that is supposed to be "the smartest guys in the room", they sure seemed to have gotten beat by the commentary of a private citizen using a facebook page.

PeterUK

RichatUF.
The reason the Obamanoids got caught out is simple,these people have never done anything in the open before. They operate in smoke filled rooms,making secret deals. The light of day has the same affect on them as it does vampires.

JM Hanes

I think that's exactly right PUK. They're still trying to keep that door tightly shut too. They've been slow to realize that that they're not in Chicago anymore, and that folks are figuring out that the guy behind the curtain is no wizard.

Where were you when I needed you?

One thing that hasn't been addressed here is that when it came time to fix her hip, Obama and his grandmother could have chosen not to do it. Were he so convinced that it shouldn't be done, why did not this persuasive man talk her out of it.

This is actually another of his gaffes along the lines of tonsillectomies and amputations. To fix a hip and remobilize the patient is generally considered safer, cheaper and better than simply leaving them at bedrest for the hip to heal. Weeks of bedrest is extremely debilitating.

So not only is Obama stupid, or ignorant, or disingenuous, he's also irresponsible. He's not fit to be anyone's grandson, let alone anyone's President.

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Wilson/Plame