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August 12, 2009

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Extraneus

Since it's germane to the thread, consider the other Republican presidential prospects. Can Romney even weigh in on this debate, what with the Mass plan Jane speaks so unkindly of? Has Huckabee made any salient points worth mentioning? Jindal? Anyone else?

No, they haven't been a factor.

I hope she opens another front next and forces Obama to explain what the insurance companies have done that requires a public option to "keep them honest." That's the real game.

PeterUK

Janet,
One of the worst thing about state health care is the feeling of powerlessness. Patients are processed through the system,there is ever such a slight whiff of the workhouse ethic. It is all right if you go along,but if you say no!
Now NHS employees can make reports on those who they deem awkward.

bad

Captain, it seems inconceivable they're working through the recess. They seem to do so little while in session and what they accomplish is usually destructive.

JM Hanes

What they rob from Peter in committee, they pay Paul in conference.

rick

Sylvia,

Then give me back all the money I put into Medicare and I will agree with you. When you consider that I have paid over the SS limit in Medicare since I was 23, that would be a nice hunk of change to pay for my medical bills.

clarice

Yes,Capt..I'm as mt. time zone as you can get--practically sitting on top of the Tetons which are just across Jackson Lodge from me.

Captain Hate

bad, the more we can keep them scurrying around like minks in heat, the less ability they have of doing us normal folks in.

Porchlight

They're not dropping the "death panel" as described by Palin. They're dropping the end of life counseling requirement. would someone kindly correct me if I'm wrong, because I don't want to keep displaying my ignorance.

Yes, you are correct, Deb. I don't know if it was the media reporting or what, but Ed Morrissey at HotAir got it all wrong in his post. The death panel is still alive and well (so to speak).

And besides, the end-of-life counseling provision is only allegedly dropped from the Senate Finance version, which means it could easily end up in the final bill anyway.

clarice

I mean just acrosss Jackson LAKE from me. (I'm awfully tired from the trip.)

Janet

PeterUK - like the Seinfeld episode where Elaine has the "crappy patient" notes in her file, and none of the Doctors want to treat her!

larry

sylvia-No, that is cheating. Either give up Medicare totally. Or give
up this bogus protests against any Fed intrusion on healthcare.

Would you sweeten the pot by giving me the 5.8% of my wages my employer and I paid lo these many years (I'm 69, paid my first FICA and Medicare 55 years ago)...at compound interest?

"health insurance company" There aren't very many of these any more. The heavies underwrite many lines, like life, auto, house, etc. Health insurance is by far the least profitable of all lines. Good health actuaries are worth their weight in gold and are compensated accordingly.

DebinNC-a truncated course of care available for those with chronic
illnesses who are deemed "less valuable" than others. I wonder how the hypocrite-in-chief would recommend the panel rule on
Stephen Hawking, who recieved the Medal of Freedom today.

hit and run

Clarice:
I'm as mt. time zone as you can get--practically sitting on top of the Tetons which are just across Jackson Lodge from me.

::sigh:: I miss it up there. Hope you are enjoying your stay. I'm jealous, but glad you get to enjoy yourself there.

You know, a summer where I had no obligations of the employment kind, you'd think we woulda made it out that way.

But instead we've spent it almost exclusively with neighbors, which has been crazy fun of the "glad I haven't gotten arrested kind". But I miss the mountains.

It woulda been fun to meet you and Mr. Clarice for lunch or drinks or something up there, bringing mrs hit and run and the kids along.

Maybe next summer.

Captain Hate

That sounds great Clarice; Mrs Hate used to live in Casper and the year after we'd been married we took a camping vacation across many scenic areas in the state: Medicine Bow, Tetons & Yellowstone, Big Horn Mountains (probably the biggest surprise since they rise from out of nowhere) and Devil's Tower. My favorite part was the Tetons; we took an all-day hike up the Grand Teton to Ampitheater Lake, above which you need a climbing permit (at least you did in 76); but one surprising side benefit was watching the stars in the rare air. I've never seen such an astronomical spectacle as that, other than a spectacular Perseid meteor shower a few years ago. At Yellowstone lodge we happened upon Gerald Ford arriving by helicopter to start his campaign; that worked out well :rolleyes.

PaulL

What they rob from Peter in committee, they pay Paul in conference.

I haven't seen any money.

clarice

I'm sorry we're missing the Hits, too, H &R--though you'd have to make that terrible ride over the Mts from Idaho. Once was enough for me.
Capt, this is truly one of the most gorgeous places in the world--too bad so much of it not in federal hands is in the hands of not very nice but very rich people.


Elliott

What do Sarah Palin Death Panels major media organizations find objectionable about death panels?

Stephanie

From the comments at PW...

“Also, I found out last night on the radio that the “death panels” aren’t in HR 3200, they’re in the Stimulus bill, which has already passed. Section whatever”

I’m feeling unread. I’ve posted this before.
Stimulus Bill.

“SEC. 804. FEDERAL COORDINATING COUNCIL FOR COMPARATIVE
EFFECTIVENESS RESEARCH. (a) ESTABLISHMENT.—There is hereby
established a Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative
Effectiveness Research (in this section referred to as the ‘‘Council’’).

(b) PURPOSE.—The Council shall foster optimum coordination
of comparative effectiveness and related health services research
conducted or supported by relevant Federal departments and agencies,
with the goal of reducing duplicative efforts and encouraging
coordinated and complementary use of resources.
(c) DUTIES.—The Council shall—
(1) assist the offices and agencies of the Federal Government,
including the Departments of Health and Human Services,
Veterans Affairs, and Defense, and other Federal departments
or agencies, to coordinate the conduct or support of
comparative effectiveness and related health services research;
and
(2) advise the President and Congress on—
(A) strategies with respect to the infrastructure needs
of comparative effectiveness research within the Federal
Government; and
(B) organizational expenditures for comparative
effectiveness research by relevant Federal departments and
agencies.

This sounds innocuous, and for now it is.

“(1) COVERAGE.—Nothing in this section shall be construed
to permit the Council to mandate coverage, reimbursement,
or other policies for any public or private payer.
(2) REPORTS AND RECOMMENDATIONS.—None of the reports
submitted under this section or recommendations made by the
Council shall be construed as mandates or clinical guidelines
for payment, coverage, or treatment.

It is however the same kind of group as they have in the UK called NICE. There is an extensive look at what is “Comparative Effectiveness” and what it does for healthcare.

I have LUNed to the PW website comment #53 has the link...


The additional language in this bill is the mechanisms for the language in the other bill... sneak bastards.

larry

To clarify my 7:19, if an insurance company makes "obscene" profits, it's in spite of, not because of, health insurance.

hit and run

Captain:
My favorite part was the Tetons; we took an all-day hike up the Grand Teton to Ampitheater Lake, above which you need a climbing permit (at least you did in 76);

In 91 you needed to register with the rangers. I worked at Canyon Village in Yellowstone. My roommate was a climber and had all the gear. He and some others from Canyon hiked up the trail, just figuring on finding some rocks to climb with his ropes. On the trail they came upon a guy who said, "I know the route, but I don't have any gear." My roommate said, "I have the gear but don't know the route"

So, they climbed the Grand.

Glad the stranger wasn't an axe murderer.

And I'm sure he was glad my roommate wasn't either.

Which, come to think of it, so was I.

Clarice, I'm telling you, honestly, that drive is not nearly as bad as you remember. We usually make that drive 3-4 times each summer while we are there. And in fact, since we'll be spending Christmas there this year, we'll make that drive in the winter at least twice. Sure, that can get hairy, but I don't sweat it when I remember my beer truck driving brother used to cross it 3-4 days a week for a couple of years, spring, summer, fall and winter.

DebinNC

Thank you, Porchlight.

Jane

My goodness, is no one talking about Major Garrett's bloodying of Robert Gibbs on an issue that should not go away?

Captain Hate

too bad so much of it not in federal hands is in the hands of not very nice but very rich people.

Wow, didn't know that but I'll take you at your word since I've yet to encounter a situation where you didn't know wtf you're talking about. Don't wanna hijack this thread too much but I'd be interested in some cursory details when you have a chance.

war and piece and crime and punishment

There was so much garbage in that bill that had to be passed, because Pelosi had to visit the Pope, than Obama didn't sign it for a week. The Senate took out language they had denied, the House hasn't yet but it might

bad

Jane, we are discussing that in the bad household. Also this from the American College of Surgeons:

From the American College of surgeons:

Yesterday during a town hall meeting, President Obama got his facts completely wrong. He stated that a surgeon gets paid $50,000 for a leg amputation when, in fact, Medicare pays a surgeon between $740 and $1,140 for a leg amputation.

That's an error with a factor of 50, yet Sarah Palin is the one being called stupid. Projection...

Captain Hate

Thanks for the story, hit. Getting up to Ampitheater Lake is a chore; 5.5 miles up and nothing but switchbacks. The western side of the Tetons is far more gradual in slope because the fault that dropped away is on the eastern side, no?

Yellowstone was nice but Mrs Hate wanted to see a bear and didn't; although one night when we were in the tent a bear got frustrated at one of the bear-proof trash cans and cuffed it, giving off a big metallic boom. I told her "There's a bear if you wanna venture out"; she just dug deeper in her sleeping bag. With all the geothermic activity you have to be careful where you walk; plus the place smells like a giant fart.

Jane

Oh I know Bad, who knew doctors were so mercenary. It's a good thing we have the presidebt to set us straight.

LUN for the Major Garrett video

centralcal

Oh, Clarice, you do have the best travels in country and out.

I still remember my first time seeing the Grand Tetons - leaving Yellowstone and driving into Jackson Hole. Along the way we stopped at a rest stop (we were in a fabulous motor home) and I have never forgotten the beautiful purple cone flowers (echinacea) and some species I had never seen before or since.

Enjoy - and I am really jealous of the views you must be having and the air you must be breathing.

PeterUK

First picture of an "End of Life Counsellor.

Extraneus

From this Hot Air post, it appears that the email recipients had entered their email ID's as contact information at whitehouse.gov, which has a privacy policy which says:

Collection and disclosure of information: To ensure we are able to communicate effectively with visitors to our web site, we collect some information that can be directly associated with a specific person. We call this “Personal Information,” and it includes, by way of illustration, names, addresses, telephone numbers and e-mail addresses.

We collect Personal Information from eligible individuals who affirmatively request to receive e-mail or other services from us. We collect this Personal Information in order to provide these eligible individuals with timely information via e-mail regarding events, resources and issues.

It is our general policy not to make Personal Information available to anyone other than our employees, staff, and agents.

rick

Larry,

We are just about the same age. I started paying into the SS and Medicare when I was 18 and exceeded the SS max every year until I retired at age 63. I also am 69 this year. Give me what I paid in and I will be glad to take care of my medical expenses. Medicare not required.

PeterUK

"we collect some information that can be directly associated with a specific person. We call this “Personal Information,” and it includes, by way of illustration, names, addresses, telephone numbers and e-mail addresses. "

They call it "personal information",as opposed to.....?

bad

If there is nothing wrong with the emails, then why is Gibbs so freaking testy about discussing it?

hit and run

Captain:
The western side of the Tetons is far more gradual in slope because the fault that dropped away is on the eastern side, no?

It is more gradual. My brother and his wife have made the hike from Jackson to the Idaho side. Grand Targhee (still in Wyoming, but only accessible from an Idaho road) has a pretty good music festival each summer -- and they hiked over, camped, caught the festival, then hiked back. That was before kids and before they actually moved to Idaho.

If we had made it up there this year, my brother and I were contemplating taking our sons from the Idaho side over the Tetons on a several night trip (they're both seven [and exactly the same age, only a few hours apart]).

To be honest, when I lived in Yellowstone, I spent more time in the Beartooths than in the Tetons, just to get away from the crowds. Amazing place. Amazing times. The Beartooths don't have nearly the dramatic visual impact of the Tetons, but hiking/climbing back to the actual Bear's tooth was a neat experience. Just me and a lone mountain goat.

PeterUK

rick,
Your SS seems like our National Insurance "Contributions". It's the government's money until we want it back,then it's their money.

Extraneus

Because Major Garrett is from Fox News is my guess. He'd probably get the same b.s. from Gibbs if he asked what Obama had for breakfast. Surely Gibbs would react differently if he got the same question from the state-controlled media, but alas, we'll never be able to test that theory.

Janet

T-shirt idea -

OBAMA STASI
Rat out the Evil-Mongers
flag@whitehouse.gov
Hope and Change

Stephanie

Just me and a lone mountain goat.

/Raises eyebrow in a "bad" manner...

pagar

If the "experts" place the same value on a tree frog as a human,

IMO,People would be in jail if they killed animals in the manner that Terri Schiavo was killed.
People have definitely been jailed for starving horses and other animals. Yet the left seemed to have no problem with food and water being withheld from Terri Schiavo for 13 days.

Janet

Oh pagar, that is so sad but true. It is like the laws we have protecting unborn (unhatched) eagles, and migratory birds...but not humans. To the left, an unborn child is not human, but an unhatched bird is....a protected bird.

yamamama

I better hurry up and have my heart surgery. I am almost 70 and I am afraid my life won't count for much after that with this administration. Just some end-of-life counseling and then "Good Bye".

bad

Can you imagine if unsolicited emails arrived in lefty mailboxes from Karl Rove?

Pops

Janet,

You notice no reporter will ever ask a liberal why the endangered species act protects eggs, fetuses and even parts of species, but at the same time congressmen claim when it comes to human babies they have no clue when life begins??

Jane

Because Major Garrett is from Fox News is my guess. He'd probably get the same b.s. from Gibbs if he asked what Obama had for breakfast.

Oh no no no, I don't think so. The WH is compiling an enemies list to chill free speech. They denied keeping a list, and now we know they have a list. It's Nixon on steroids.

bad

Jane, they have the list but they promise to never, ever, ever, ever use it.

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Janet

Great point Pops. Yeah, Obama said it was above his pay grade...knowing when life begins.

RichatUF

Jane,

Creepy that the White House would use that sort of email list to campaign for support of the Administration's policies. I'd be worried that it would end up in the hands of Organizing for America, or if it has already ended up there. JM Hanes had a bit up about whether that odd creature of an organization was legal.

I'd have to look at my notes, but I think I came down that it definantly violates the spirit of the law, comes real close to violating the letter of the law, is probably a violation of IRS and FEC regulations, and depending on whom in the White House is handling the materials, it is probably a violation of civil service and executive appointee ethics regulations.

I could have imagined the howls of outrage had Rove sent out campaign materials, using White House letter head, to stump for the President's Social Security reform efforts, using information collected by anyone visiting whitehouse.gov as the campaign mailing list.

Pops

YamaMama,

You really need to be more positive. You can insure you will be at the top of Obamas list for WAIVERS for surgeries, just like those pesky lobbyists get waivers.

All you need to do:

1. Join a union and/or an Obama approved agitation organization.
2. Contribute to Obama or Obamas directed agitation organization. Any contribution totaling 10,000 dollars will insure you are moved up on the hip replacement list - just behind liberal movie stars.
3. Consider becoming a protected minority.
4. Make sure no one sends your 'fishy' posts to the White House snitch line.
If you are found to have complained about Obama care, you will only get a pain pill.

I guess the best news is, under Obamas forced minimum coverages, at 70 you are still covered for abortions and breat implants.

NOTE: Breast implants for women over 70 were not in the original bill, they were added it what is commonly called The Slick Willie Amendment. They have a higher priority then heart surgery...so Grandma can got out lookin' hot!

RichatUF

And since they are collecting that sort of personal data and using it to send out unsolicited email, we should give them our medical records to see if they will examine them and give us unsolicited medical advice.

Janet

If the federal government takes over health care, and I am really sick, I might try "death by cop". I'll crush some protected eggs while screaming, "When does life begin?!?!".

bad

I think you're on to something, Rich. All of the people with financial problems can send them their financial records and ask them to balance their budgets and pay off their debts.

narciso

Yes, Janet, but that Singer quote, is illustrative of a very disturbing mindset
that is fundamentally anti human and this attitude is rife in this administration, from Holdren, Susstein and frankly Obama himself.

PeterUK

The Obama regime is missing a trick here. What about mid life crisis? Surely all those, half way through life but are pissed off and aimless, need counselling as well.

"Tell me Mr Phibbs,Certified Public Accountant,why did you start smashing up all those garden gnomes you had painstakingly collected for over thirty five years,buy a red Mustang and run off with a blonde half your age?"

Hassenpfeffer

"During his New Hampshire town hall meeting on health care reform in mid-August, Obama explained that under his plan, people who lack health insurance would be able to purchase it in a new exchange that offered a similar “menu of options that I used to have as a member of Congress.” Obama said that by creating a big pool of potential customers, the exchange would allow the uninsured and even small businesses to shop around, easily compare various private health care plans and get a better deal than they could on their own.

Most of the health care reform bills circulating in Congress contain some form of this concept. The exchange, in fact, is now the centerpiece of proposed plans drafted mainly by Democrats. It’s a curious development, because the concept was largely popularized by the Heritage Foundation, a right-wing think tank best known in recent years for advocating Social Security privatization during the Bush administration. Its track record ought to make Americans more wary of Obama's proposals than any hints of socialized medicine.

Heritage is the source of a number of radical free-market and socially conservative policy proposals that have occasionally worked their way into law, with questionable results. Among the most prominent: welfare reform, which it advocated in the mid-1990s as a means of reducing out-of-wedlock births and restoring “personal responsibility.” The idea—also embraced by a Democratic president—was considered a resounding success during the boom years of the late Clinton era when millions of poor single mothers went to work. But now that the country has hit a major recession, it has become clear that welfare reform mostly succeeded in shredding the safety net for poor children. (Incidentally, out-of-wedlock births have never been higher). More recently, Heritage has promoted the idea that what poor women really need to get them out of poverty is a good man. At its urging, the Bush administration gave more than $100 million in grants to “marriage entrepreneurs” charged with encouraging poor single mothers to get hitched rather than to get welfare. Needless to say, the poverty rate is still on the rise.

Like many of the foundation’s ideas, a health insurance exchange looks better on paper than in practice. When Massachusetts launched its health reform experiment in 2006, it relied heavily on Heritage's policy prescriptions. Under then-Governor Mitt Romney, Massachusetts created a voluntary insurance exchange similar to the one Obama often promotes. Massachusetts outlines some basic requirements for plans that participate but it doesn’t set rates or reimbursement levels. And far from revolutionizing health care, the exchange—known in Massachusetts as the Connector—is demonstrating the limitations of relying solely on the market to solve the nation’s health care woes and rein in skyrocketing medical costs.

Trudy Lieberman, a contributor to the Columbia Journalism Review, has done a stellar job of reporting on the Massachusetts initiative. She recently found that the Connector had all but failed to create more affordable insurance options for people in Massachusetts as promised. Using a hypothetical family from Pittsfield in western Mass, Lieberman went shopping on the Connector website. She found that coverage for a 44-year-old couple with an income of $66,150, slightly over the eligibility limit for a state insurance subsidy, “All but three of the fourteen Connector policies cost at least $1,000 a month, or $12,000 a year—eighteen percent of their income.” The cheapest policy, at $820 a month, was no bargain. Yet according to the state’s own guidelines, the Pittsfield family could only afford $364 in monthly premiums.

Those prices also vary by age. Lieberman found that if she changed the age of her Pittsfield family to 54, the premiums jumped significantly. Lieberman reports that it’s not just consumers who are complaining. Insurance companies have failed to garner the promised deluge of new customers, who’ve been deterred by the high prices.

In the reform bills currently pending in Congress, Democrats have modified the Connector model by introducing a public plan that would compete in the exchange to help keep costs down. But the public option seems increasingly doomed, in no small part to the Heritage Foundation itself, which is apparently horrified by Obama’s embrace of its pet policy.

In July, Heritage released a report warning that a public option would cause millions of people to lose their private insurance and serve as a Trojan horse to usher in a single-payer system. Heritage also has decried the way Obama and congressional Democrats have morphed its voluntary free-market concept into a vehicle for more federal regulation. Several of the pending bills would use the structure of an exchange to impose new requirements on insurance companies.

Robert Moffit, director of the foundation’s Center for Health Policy Studies, wrote in July, “If the objective of the President and Congress is to expand the role of the federal government in providing health insurance and determining the kind of health insurance that Americans will get, the national health insurance exchange is a convenient tool for that federal expansion and control.”

But the Massachusetts model suggests that if Obama fails to win a public option for his federal exchange plan, he'll be leaving Americans with a largely useless shopping program cooked up by the same people who brought us marriage counseling as a poverty cure. It's hard to call that real reform."

Dig it.

BY THE SAME PEOPLE WHO BROUGHT US MARRIAGE COUNSELING AS A POVERTY CURE.

pagar

Here is a LUN that I first saw when narciso put it in a comments section over at conservatives4palin.

Section 1233 authors are major proponents of euthanasia, assisted suicide

Actually, I don't where it is anything but murder. But, If there is such a thing as suicide by cop, than suicide by government bureaucrat can't be far behind.

clarice

Capt-as he did elsewhere, Laurence Rokefeller bought up a great deal of the land around here. Later he donated it to the national park system. It is 310,000 acres. Until about yers ago, smck dab in the middle of the loveliest spot, the familly reserved a good size ranch for itself.

Around Jackson Hole such luminaries as Herb Kohl, Senator from Wisconsin have maintained huge ranches. All of this leaves little opportunity for others --most of the people who work in town commute from Idaho or elsewhere. They couldnt possibly afford to live there.

Jane

I'd be worried that it would end up in the hands of Organizing for America

My assumption is it has already happened.

Health care appears to pretty much be toast unless the administration wants rioting in the streets - so I'm onto the comparisons with Nixon. I want these guys exposed.

PeterUK

Pagar,
Some years back,there was a radio broadcast with a specialist in palliative care. His words have always stuck with me.
"People in pain don't want to die,they want the pain to stop.We can do much to help that".

Janet

Who are the people writing the health care bills? We know it's NOT our Reps. or Senators, because they don't know what is in it. We want names, so we can look into what these authors of OUR future believe.

JM Hanes

As RichatUF (:-) mentioned:

When I was posting over at Quasiblog, I looked at how aggressively Team Obama collects (and has been collecting!) personal data. I'm sure I only hit the tip of the iceberg.

You can still access the posts at the links below.  The most comprehensive of the three is "White House Cavalry."  BTW, David Axelrod is emailing me from the White House too, which, as Karl Rove points out in item three, may actually be illegal. 


Political OCD
Makes the case that the sole purpose behind Obama's outreach of every kind -- from signing folks up for that 3 am call, to inviting them to text it in from the convention floor, to proliferating White House websites -- is email and cell number collection.   


White House Cavalry
A look at all the different ways the White House collects your names & email addresses, and the pipeline between the White House & Orgainizing for America.


Cavalry Update
Karl Rove raises legal issues of White House email lobbying.

bad

Is Craig going to be the fall guy for this? Convenient that he's been fired.

Captain Hate

Clarice, thanks; I remember venturing in there briefly. I seemed waaaayyyy too pricey for me so what you're saying makes sense.

Jane

Obama is going to be the fall guy - in 2010

Captain Hate

I == It

Barbara

Is Craig going to be the fall guy for this? Convenient that he's been fired.

Now I know why Obama has so many Czars. At the rate he's going, he will soon run out of people to throw under the bus.

Re: the Major Garrett/Gibbs exchange -
I've noticed that whenever Obama (or in this case Gibbs) gets backed into a corner he says, "I want to be perfectly clear," or "Let me make one thing clear about this..." What follows is usually garbled, confusing nonsense or an outright lie.

glenda

Clarice..I remember the highway by Jackson Hole dotted with little log cabins for travelers and a small community--the view of the Tetons seeming almost touchable, not like the Rockies-- but now, though beautiful, has turned into another Aspen.
But, I would love to be there, anytime. I just couldn't afford lunch. Happy trails...

Jane, how can the people in that White House briefing room with Gibbs call themselves journalists? Major has been the bright light, for sure. The Obama-loving media will go down in history as collaborators---we need a new "deep throat", but one who whistleblows in order to protect the country and its' citizen's liberties-- not so much, one who wanted to get back at their superiors.

bad

BTW, Ryan C at Tapper'a blog, the one who calls everyone a liar, has declared Rahm Emanuel an oncologist. When I ask him if he was lying, he suggested I learn how to read.

Captain Hate

hit, thanks for the comments. I can certainly understand wanting to get away from the crowds and there are so damn many gorgeous places out there. Did you ever go to Medicine Bow Natl Forest? Mrs H raved about it before we went and it was very nice; plus we had a whole campground pretty much to ourselves

RichatUF

bad,

He might be, but I hadn't heard that he was fired, just in the dog house. I would like to see the legal advice the Obama Administration and the DNC got in how they can make that sort of "party within the party" legal. Rove's bit is pretty good, but I think what would really get the ball rolling is getting civil servants in trouble with ethics violations and IRS investigations. A 20 year time server isn't going to fall on a sword for the Obama Administration over a nebulous political campaigning vehicle. Obama has so many "czars" and SES toadys tripping over themselves in the Executive Office, I'd be shocked if there hasn't been a bunch of criminal and civil violations of IRS, FEC, and ethics regulations. We can sort of see it with the heavy handed firings of the IGs to date, but I'm sure there are other rich areas to mine.

JM Hanes, you should do a radio show with Jane♥

Jane

BTW, Ryan C at Tapper'a blog, the one who calls everyone a liar, has declared Rahm Emanuel an oncologist. When I ask him if he was lying, he suggested I learn how to read.

I want to ask him if he is paid to have the last word in every single thread.

Glenda, we have to crack this whole journolist thing - otherwise we lost the country. MSNBC's ratings are down 25% and Fox's are up 20% - so that's a start. And how cool are all these informed senior citizens?

matt

I can already see how this is going to play out here in California...."I'm not a doctor, but I play one on TV".

glenda

Capt.H...when you travel in that part of the country, you understand why the native Americans fought so hard to keep "civilization" out!! Too bad they failed.

bad

Thanks Rich. I thought he was already gone.

Stephanie

SHOCKER...I got an update comment on Insty today...

LUN

bad

Congratulations Stephanie!!

pagar

O/T-from the you can't make this stuff up file.

Black Man Posing as White Supremist Enters Guilty Plea For Sending Death Threats to Black Students

Weird-really weird!

Captain Hate

Damn, going to Stephanie's Insty link I found out Les Paul died today @ 94. RIP

Stephanie

Thanks! I'm psyched...

Capt Bummer isn't it... my son will be playing dirges on his all night long. Thank goodness someone invented earphones!

hit and run

Captain:
Did you ever go to Medicine Bow Natl Forest?

Actually, no. Yellowstone was always the destination we were aiming for growing up, and we sped through Colorado and southern Wyoming pretty much each time.

When we were in Canada recently, the family whose cottage we were staying regaled us with tales every night at dinner (it was a neighbor's parents, and we only saw them at dinner because we were in the boathouse down on the water) and one such tale was about spending time at a resort in Medicine Bow.

Parking Lot

((Since it's germane to the thread, consider the other Republican presidential prospects. Can Romney even weigh in on this debate, what with the Mass plan Jane speaks so unkindly of? Has Huckabee made any salient points worth mentioning? Jindal? Anyone else?))

Jim DeMint

((Obama singled out DeMint for criticism at a news conference last month, and the Democratic National Committee launched a TV ad targeting him.

This is a battle I've been waiting for and hoping for, for years," DeMint told McClatchy. "We've got to stop the socialization of medicine . . . . We've stirred up a fight.)) LUN

Imv 0's overheated reaction to Sarah's Facebook article makes her the de facto leader of the opposition. And by reacting to her he's effectively advertising for her.

Captain Hate

Stephanie: LUN for a classic performance. I don't think it's bad taste to point out that he had an incredibly rich musical life; in fact it's hard to imagine anybody subsequently being as influential as he was. Although I'm always open to being surprised...

Another musician who died today was Rashied Ali, a drummer who had a great influence on the latter development of John Coltrane. Probably far fewer people will remember him (and I understand a lot of Coltrane's prior fans weren't all that happy with the changes late in his career) but he was a fine musician.

Stephanie

That was awesome...

RichatUF

Parking Lot-

I've linked to this short hand effort of The 48 Laws of Power as a rough guidebook to the Obama Administration. When Gov. Palin resigned, I pointed out that she was using Law 22 with her resignation. It was only a matter of time before one of those ethics complaints was going to break through so cut them off. In a way, I'm curious if her Facebook comment (talking about going over the head of the media) wasn't a test to see how much she could really get under the administration's skin.

In short, since she was the VP nominee (and is a politician herself), she'd have had access to some of the opposition research and polling data regarding Obama, and might know better than all the GOP deal-cutters in DC and intelligentsia, what Obama's thumbscrew is.

Obama needed to have a plastic turkey of an event in New Hampshire and an 11 year old throw the softball to launch an attack against a comment of a now private citizen on a Facebook page. And her point was taken and in the 3 card monty DC is playing with the healthcare reform efforts, the Senate has "taken out" the offending language in the Committee draft.

Stephanie

((And by reacting to her he's effectively advertising for her.))

New paradigm...

Attempt to strike me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.

I fully expect her poll numbers to rise as people choose sides.

RichatUF

From the comments on her response:

Sarah Palin for Mob Boss!

And she isn't letting go that it is the House version most widely quoted that is the most troubling not the Senate Finance Committee. I wonder if Obama is planning his response for his next "town hall".

Stephanie

Excellent reading material for the econ inclined...

LUN

hit and run

Eh, that whole Gibbs email today isn't nearly as interesting as the one from Obama that just arrived in my inbox...


---------------------------


From: Obama, Barack
To: hit and run
Date: Thursday, August 13, 2009, 11:01 PM
Subject: New Economic Programs

Dear Valued Citizen,

Due to the current financial situation caused by the slowdown in the economy, I have decided to implement a new plan to transition workers, 50 years of age and above, into early retirement.

This plan will be known as Retire Aged People Early, or RAPE.

Persons selected to be RAPED can apply to Congress to be considered for the Special Help After Forced Termination program, or SHAFT.

Persons who have been RAPED and SHAFTED will be reviewed under the Scheme Covering Retired-Early Workers program, or SCREW.

A person may be RAPED once, SHAFTED twice, and SCREWED as many times as I, President Obama, deem appropriate.

Persons who have been RAPED or SCREWED could be eligible for the Additional Income for Dependants & Spouse program, or AIDS; or the Half Earnings for Retired Personnel Early Severance program, or HERPES.

Obviously persons who have AIDS or HERPES will not be SHAFTED or SCREWED any further. Persons who are not RAPED and are staying on will receive as much Special High Intensity Training, or SHIT as possible. I have always prided myself on the amount of SHIT I give our citizens.

Should you feel that you do not receive enough SHIT, please bring this to the attention of your Congressman, who has been specially trained to give you all the SHIT you can handle.

Thank You and God Bless America,
Barack H. Obama
President of the United States

PS: Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil, as well as the current market conditions, the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off.

narciso

Some one speculated that was she is doing is the political version of fourthgeneration
warfare, there is no fixed target such as an office, they can go after, All it really takes is a laptop, and maybe a few hours of
research, to put things together. BTW another suggested it should be called LOTUS, in contrast to TOTUS

PD

The end-of-life counseling seems designed to encourage those who are of diminishing "use" to society to check out. Embracing this principle, I propose that such counseling shall be mandatory for members of Congress, except that instead of every five years, it should be mandatory after each vote on a bill.

RichatUF

Stephine-

Good read. Drudge has flagged up an artice in the Telegraph from an RBS bear who is making a similiar call. I only only give it a speed read, but the question I have is if the equities markets are getting to be a bubble top (and a similiar situation exists in China) and "cash is king", I'm not sure where a further tanking of the dollar or double digit interest rates would come from.

Based on that IMF report the Euro zone banks are in worse shape than the US, CE is a garbage dump of "sub-sub-prime loans" denominated in yen, and any sharp move in the German 10yr bund would crack soverign spreads probably triggering a currency crisis in Ireland, Spain, and the CE countries in the EZ.

If the liquidity bubble is popping in China (and enough commentary suggests that the top is in) that would cause an unwind in the commodities markets again which would show up as consumer price deflation (and in regards to oil a boost in purchasing power for consumers who can then reduce debt).

May we live in interesting times. I'll give it a better read tomorrow, thanks for the link.

Harrison

Like that Police song... Truth Hits Everybody!

el polacko

years ago, i used to 'joke' about how the younger generations will encourage the elderly to just die for the good of society in general .. now they are writing it into health bills. maybe not in so many words, but the handwriting is clearly on the wall.
as the president said, why not just give grannie the blue pill and let her pass on a little early.. think of the savings !!
score one for palin for getting congress to drop the language from the bill.. just by commenting on facebook, no less ! however, we are still dealing with the folks whose mindset allowed them to put the provisions in the bill in the first place... scary.

hrtshpdbox

If the liquidity bubble is popping in China (and enough commentary suggests that the top is in) that would cause an unwind in the commodities markets again which would show up as consumer price deflation (and in regards to oil a boost in purchasing power for consumers who can then reduce debt).

There's no question, in my mind, that the top is in for China, and for the U.S. as well - this rally is almost done. Equities have rallied on the type of worldwide stimulus (read: debt creation) that does nothing to set the stage for continued growth; companies have tightened their belts to improve their bottom lines, but an environment of reeling consumers, increased goverment regulation and the prospect of higher taxes makes future prospects dim indeed. I saw Obama, the other day, cite the improved market as proof that things are getting better - politicians love to do this when they can, and then say "I don't pay attention to market fluctuations" when the averages nosedive. And nosedive they must, I fear (though, frankly, I think this whole rally has been odd considering the circumstances; who knows what kind of investment advice O's team is forcing upon the TARP companies).

Re: Palin. With O's team, instead of "watch the money" (though that's a good idea, too), it's "watch the outrage" - when they see something that might "resonate" with voters they attack full-bore. Just as people who articulate concerns about the health plan are manipulated mobs, Sarah Palin is the devil incarnate, they can't shut up about her because she is their most powerful foe - and she doesn't even need to make an appearance, just kick back and do some posting on her Facebook page! It's indescribably delicious. It's worth noting what Camille Paglia (Democrat) said about the "death panels" comment: "As a libertarian and refugee from the authoritarian Roman Catholic church of my youth, I simply do not understand the drift of my party toward a soulless collectivism. This is in fact what Sarah Palin hit on in her shocking image of a "death panel" under Obamacare that would make irrevocable decisions about the disabled and elderly. When I first saw that phrase, headlined on the Drudge Report, I burst out laughing. It seemed so over the top! But on reflection, I realized that Palin's shrewdly timed metaphor spoke directly to the electorate's unease with the prospect of shadowy, unelected government figures controlling our lives. A death panel not only has the power of life and death but is itself a symptom of a Kafkaesque brave new world where authority has become remote, arbitrary and spectral. And as in the Spanish Inquisition, dissidence is heresy, persecuted and punished."

RE: Gibbs. Another administration "tell", this panic about unsolicited emails. We just learned (or I did, anyway) last week that it's not legal for the White House to collect and maintain information about dissenters (i.e. "fishy" website addresses), so it might be interesting to know exactly how the WH assembles their email list.

hrtshpdbox

..that would cause an unwind in the commodities markets again which would show up as consumer price deflation..

BTW, Rich, I agree, gold and oil are as over-bought as equities (hey, all that freshly-printed cash has to be put somewhere); oil, which more typically moves inversely to equities, is relying on a consumer boon that I don't see happening, and metals buyers anticipate inflation where I just see stagflation (which is hardly as friendly to gold bugs). As for currencies, they can all collapse fairly equally in a renewed recession that won't necessarily ignite commodity buying.

pagar

Persons selected to be RAPED can apply to Congress to be considered for the Special Help After Forced Termination program, or SHAFT.

The Terri Schiavo case proofed that doesn't work. Once the bureaucrats decide you are to die, there apparently is no appeal, in America, that will save you. Your food and water will be withheld.

pagar

proofed should be proved in my 07:18 AM post.

Extraneus

Jim DeMint

Good point, Parking Lot! That Waterloo comment stung them, too, and that's pretty evidently the way to bore into Obama's psyche. I recall the Britney ad as another successful attack on him.

Jane

known in Massachusetts as the Connector—is demonstrating the limitations of relying solely on the market to solve the nation’s health care woes and rein in skyrocketing medical costs.

Hassenfeffor -

Your article is wrong. If MA residents could 1. buy policies across state lines, and 2. were not subject to all Deval Patrick's mandatory requirements, the "free market" is no where to be seen.

JM Hanes, you should do a radio show with Jane♥

I'm in - but only if the comparison makes me look like comic relief. JMH is one smart chick.

Bad news Clarice, the presidebt is taking is kids to Jackson hole today.

narciso

Yet another round, from the Akhanitsa, challenging Emmanuel and the One's (and by extension Tapper)statements.

Cecil Turner

Apologies if this has already been discussed (I didn't slug through the ~400 comments), but it looks to me like many are conflating the IMAC (and whatever implementation mechanism they use) with the end-of-life counseling provisions in the bill. By my reading, the former would deny care based on economics, the latter would try to make you like it. And in a typical bait-and-switch, our politicoes are removing the latter from the bill and declaring the subject closed.

Saw Karl Rove on Fox this morning (not sure if it was live or repeat), and he reviewed GOP proposals (e.g., plan portability, competition across state lines, and tort reform), and observed none of them were even considered in the current legislation. Seems to me we ought to try all the cost-savings stuff first . . . and hand the thing over to the bureaucrats only when you thought it couldn't possibly be any worse (and then be prepared to be surprised).

narciso

Tell me assigning this fellow Ezekiel to the OMB, doesn't suggest something untoward. Jonathan Swift couldn't have painted a darker tableau

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Wilson/Plame