They're Lying About Obama's Plan, Even Though They Are Telling The Truth About His Goals

Matt Yglesias is overcome by honesty as he takes in the health care debate:

A disheartened Ezra Klein looks at a WSJ/NBC poll showing that people have lots of false beliefs about the president’s health care agenda and offers the following chart:

I will summarize the chart - roughly 50% to 55% of respondents think health care reform is likely to mean coverage for illegal aliens, a government takeover of the health care system, and taxpayer-funded abortions.  45% think that it will allow government to make decisions about when to stop providing medical care to the elderly.

Here is the question (p. 5 of 6):

Let me read you a number of criticisms that town hall protesters have made about the proposed health care plan. For each one, please tell me whether this seems to you to be likely to happen or unlikely to happen.

Let's note, they are not asking about the specific plan passed by the House, or the emanations and vibrations from the Senate - they are asking respondents to take a guess as to what "reform" will mean.  One might even argue that the question is sufficiently open to be interpreted as inquiring what reform will mean both now and over time.

Here is Matt's take:

My first thought is “reform opponents are lying like crazy and it’s working.” My second thought is that three out of these four things would actually be a good idea.  [He spares grandma - TM]

That's it - opponents are lying because they are describing what a liberal President and his liberal base hope to accomplish over time with health care reform.

As to a government takeover of health care, Obamna favored single-payer in 2003 and in 2007, although he bowed to reality in 2007 and described a long transition to get there.  Is fear that government takeover is an Obama goal so unrealistic?

On coverage for illegals, Obama's answer is a firm "No but yes":

Asked by CBS News' Katie Couric in an exclusive interview whether illegal immigrants should be covered under a new health care plan, President Obama responded simply, "no." But he said there may need to be an exception to that policy for children.

"First of all, I'd like to create a situation where we're dealing with illegal immigration, so that we don't have illegal immigrants," he said. "And we've got legal residents or citizens who are eligible for the plan. And I want a comprehensive immigration plan that creates a pathway to achieve that."

"The one exception that I think has to be discussed is how are we treating children," he continued. "Partly because if you've got children who may be here illegally but are still in playgrounds or at schools, and potentially are passing on illnesses and communicable diseases, that aren't getting vaccinated, that I think is a situation where you may have to make an exception."

Further complicating the picture is that many illegals have employer based coverage through their (illegal-held) jobs.  If such an employer drops the company plan and transitions the employees to the public option, will the illegals be denied coverage by flinty Democrats?  Will Obama really pass up this chance to Hispander?  One might reasonably doubt it.

And since we don't have a current legislative proposal to evaluate and can only rely on our own guesses about subsequent tweakings of this round of reform, I am hazy as to why critics are "lying" when expressing their fear that eventually a liberal President backed by a Democratic House and Senate will get what he wants.

MY BAD:  Matt was echoing Obama conference call in which The One pounded on these points:

In a conference call with liberal and progressive religious leaders Wednesday afternoon, President Obama railed against those who were “bearing false witness” in the debate over health care reform.

“I know there's been a lot of misinformation in this debate, and there are some folks out there who are, frankly, bearing false witness, but I want everyone to know what health insurance reform is all about,” the president said.

...

The president said the bill would not provide health insurance for illegal immigrants, or as he called them, “illegal aliens.” “That's not true. There's a specific provision in the bill that does not provide health insurance for those individuals.”

“You've heard that this is a government takeover of health care,” the president said. “That's not true. You've heard that this is all going to…mean government funding of abortion.  Not true.”

If it doesn't mean a government takeover and coverage of illegals it won't be because Obama didn't want those things.

Comments

[For What It's Worth]

Is Obama's shovel bigger than Jimmy Carter's?

[clarice]

Ot must really frost these folks to know these are not their daddy's voters who turned on CNS and believed whatever Cronkite said or read the NYT and listened to Sulzburger(directly or thru the multiple major news outlets it sets the tone for).

[Jim Ryan]

Shorter Dems: Americans are so stupid they won't fall for our lies.

It's a great show though:

MO: Doctor!

LARRY: Doctor!

CURLY: Doctor!

MO, LARRY CURLY: Doctor! Doctor! Doctor!

MO Shaddap! Which one of you morons has read the bill?

CURLY: ??

LARRY: I'm sorry Mo!

MO: Neither have I. But it don't got nothin' about rationing or putting private insurance out of business, see?

CURLY: It don't?

MO: No, genius! We all went to Harvard, didn't we? So, it don't. Now spread out!

[JM Hanes]

Bearing false witness? Obama's back must clearly be up against the wall if he's going all scriptural on us.

Tevi Troy over at the corner comments on the bizarre in Obama's healthcare conference call with 1,000 rabbis -- the least of which is his Shanah Tovah salutation. Troy notes that's like "wishing people 'Merry Christmas' on Thanksgiving." On a darker note, he tips his hat to a Rosh Hashanah prayer which envisions "a powerful and unseen being making determinations of life and death" and claims that we are "God's partners" in that. Gives those public/private partnerships, and hubris, whole new meaning, doesn't it?

IIRC, he has also reached out to at least one another "faith community" in the past few days.

[Neo]

"The Won" has the credibility less than that of a used car salesman.

[Jim Treacher]

Ezra Klein Smarter Than Everyone, Knows Everything

[Appalled]

I guess what's puzzled me all along is "What's the intrinsic merit of having a government competitor in the health care market?" If you mandate coverage and rates, then insurance companies can't refuse to take people willing to pay the premium. So I don't think the government needs to be an insurer of last resort.

Because there is really no reason for the government insurer to accomplish the goals of "health insurance reform", the only thing you can assume is that the government is using its presence in the marketplace to drive other insurers out.

Hence, you have the suspicion that government is wanting single-payor "Medicare for All"

[Matt Yglesias is a putz. Steve Benen, too.]

I was eating Yglesias's commenters alive about climate until he banned me.

[bgates]

A disheartened Ezra Klein

Matt and Ezra are all broken up about the health care debacle, but at least they'll always have each other.

At least until Obama comes to visit them at JournoList headquarters, tells them he only has one spot open on the team, and leaves them alone with a broken pool cue for a minute.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

The missing step in understanding this is that "lying" is Nutroots-speak for "disagreeing with the plan." See also "right wing", "treason", and "fascism".

[PeterUK]

Did the Supreme Court award Constitutional rights to combatants held in Guantanamo?
If so.on what grounds can illegals immigrants be refused state health care?
The NHS treats thousands of foreigners, including this one. A lot do not return home.

[Rob Crawford]

Have to admire the guts of answering "will socialized medicine cover illegal aliens" with "No, because we're gonna make all the criminals citizens!"

[clarice]

Well, just as an aside..... For the last few years we let the notion of an emergency supply of food and water go as we felt secure ar last in D.C.. Today we restrocked again.
Thanks, Matt and Ezra, for your part in foisitng this feckless moron on us.

[JM Hanes]

Well, for once, I did recall correctly! Yet another Presidential conference call on Wednesday, per The Hill :

More than 30 religious groups have banded together to support the Democratic-led reform efforts, including the progressive group Catholics United, the Jewish Council for Public Affairs, the National Baptist Convention U.S.A., the National Council of Churches in Christ and the United Church of Christ. The group sponsored Wednesday's call and describes itself on its Web site as "an effort from the faith community to make clear to Congress that quality, affordable health care for every American family is a moral priority for millions of people of faith."

Debbie Obama does faith based initiatives.

Jim Treacher:

It almost sounds like Yglesias and Klein attend the same group therapy sessions, doesn't it?

[Fresh Air]

...foisitng this feckless reckless  moron...

Modified, slightly.

[Ignatz]

--"First of all, I'd like to create a situation where we're dealing with illegal immigration, so that we don't have illegal immigrants,"--

This jerk will astound us when he finally presents his La Raza plan. The only way to not have illegal immigrants at all is to channel every person here illegally, both now and in the future, into citizenship. I guaran-damn-tee his plan will have some feature that is either plainly that or will be able to morph into that and the red carpet will be laid for an even more massive new influx.

[JM Hanes]

Rob Crawford:

I've been meaning to tell you that I've been enjoying your comments!

[Fresh Air]

There's no question but that illegals would be covered in any plan. They can pretty much vote, already. The long-term Mediacrat plan for the future is to lock up the illegal vote. It's the only way they can stay in power given the declining birth rates in blue states. This is why we need to seal the border yesterday and throw out as many illegals as we can.

[bad to the bone]

"Bearing false witness." Have the Obamas been to church since....whenever?

And, of course we have to ask, what if W had a big conference call with a bunch of religious leaders to try to get them on board with one of his initiatives?

Exploding lefty heads and screams about seperation of church and state at the very least.

[Jackie Chiles]

He's feckless, reckless, and shameless!

[Old Dad]

What Obama pretends that he doesn't understand is that the laws of physics cannot be altered by legislative fiat, not even by the One.

So when the One argues that single payer will reduce costs, skeptics understand immediately that costs will increase and efficiencies evaporate--of course, the Bill does not "say" that, but we know that night inevitably follows day. Same with "death panels," rationing, ad nauseam.

Yet, the One persists--are you going to believe me or the wisdom of thousands of years of human experience?

And let's not forget, everyone at the top of the food chain is getting greased regardless of the outcome--as it has been since Eve schtupped Adam.

[Rob Crawford]

"Bearing false witness." Have the Obamas been to church since....whenever?

They spent twenty years in Rev. Wright's flock so... no, they haven't.

[Rob Crawford]

Oh, and thanks JM Hanes!

[clarice]

Old Dad..How can you say that when the clunkers bill shoveled money to foreign car manufacturers, stiffed the dealers who tried to participate, and has already lead dealers in NY and NMexico to drop out because they weren't getting reimbursed from the program and were losing money fast?

[Rob Crawford]

Yet, the One persists--are you going to believe me or the wisdom of thousands of years of human experience?

For the Obamatons, 2009 is Year Zero.

[clarice]

Gee, Fresh Air, it worked so well for the Labour party in the UK...

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

From a new Quinnipiac poll:

President Barack Obama gets a 47 - 48 percent approval rating from Florida voters, down from 58 - 35 percent June 10, according to a Quinnipiac University poll released today.

This is President Obama's lowest approval in any national or statewide poll conducted by the independent Quinnipiac (KWIN-uh-pe-ack) University/

Via Powerline:

At The Corner, Peter Wehner cites data from an email by Nicholas Thompson, vice president of the Tarrance Group. Thompson analyzed data from the Gallup poll on Presidential approval ratings from the Eisenhower administration to the present:

Obama's approval is down 14 points from his initial rating -- tying President Clinton for the biggest drop since the Eisenhower era.

For those interested, here's how different presidents match up when comparing their initial approval rating with their average approval rating in the August of their first term: Eisenhower +6 (from 68 to 74 percent), Kennedy +4 (from 72 to 76 percent), Nixon +3 (from 59 to 62 percent), Carter -3 (from 66 to 63 percent), Reagan +9 (from 51 to 60 percent), George H. W. Bush +18 (from 51 to 69 percent), Clinton -14 (from 58 to 44 percent), George W. Bush -1 (from 57 to 56 percent), and Obama -14 (from 68 to 54 percent).

[Original MikeS]

Question 15b. Let me read you a number of questions. For each one, please tell me whether this seems to you to be likely to happen or unlikely to happen if Democrat health reform is passed.

Do you believe the free medical care to illegal aliens will stop?

Would you describe a system where the government mandates what will be covered, recommends treatments, sets up a massive bureaucracy that requires 1000 typewritten pages to describe, fines people for not purchasing mandated insurance, as government controlled health care?

Will mandated insurance be allowed to cover abortions?

Will it allow the government to make decisions about coverage the way other countries with similar plans do?

[malclave]

"They're Lying About Obama's Plan, Even Though They Are Telling The Truth About His Goals"

Fake, but accurate?

[Old Dad]

Clarice,

Mea culpa.

P.S. I'm from the Land of Enchantment, and our selfish dealers indeed are unfairly criticizing the Clunkers Administration. Why you ask--because they are floating millions of dollars in receivables from the Feds and not getting paid--racists. Well our Sec. State was recently indicted. We got that going for us. Dem, by the say.

[Krys]

Why isnt any reporter asking Obama about the section of the bill allowing the IRS to be linked to your checking account? Obama and his administration know exactly what they are doing which is to create as much govt control as possible in people lives. Faith based communities or religions always are "share the wealth" but one has the personal choice whether to be involved or not...in the gov't's case they are foisting upon us against our will.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

Wow, just saw picture of Marco Rubio, 2010 Senate candidate for Florida. What a hunk.

[gmax]

Old Dad

Any chance that Richardson had his hand in the cookie jar too? Or Bingaman?

[bad to the bone]

I agree, Sara.

[centralcal]

Tweet from Major Garrett:

"Obama just told OFA he wants to create a "farmer's market" outside the White House to sell Michelle's WH garden vegetables."

I thought the garden was tainted with lead from sewer sludge.

[MayBee]

Yesterday at Salon, Joan Walsh wrote:

Klein makes his best point – that public option folks should relax until the conference committee reconciles the House and Senate health care bills – highlighting what Obama told progressive bloggers July 20:

So why is it ok for progressives to wait to see what "really" goes on the bill because they want something in there, when doubters are idiots for thinking something might "really" go in the bill?

[Parking Lot]

OT

Just in case anyone is interested in who is doing the White House drapes

[Frau The Schnauzer]

Thanks, Sara. That is a welcome sight. Let's hope the newest issue of the National Review doesn't sell out quickly. That's a keeper!

[clarice]

Parking,Do you suppose they'll repurpose the flowered apron? Wrap see through plastic belts around the draperies?

[clarice]

Sara. with a rather large population of retirees I'm not surprised in Obama's fast fall in Florida. Those people may not always know what year it is, but they now exactly when their social security check is due in the mailbox.

[bgates]

Klein makes his best point...highlighting what Obama told progressive bloggers

Ezra's even more convincing when he's paraphrasing what Obama says than when he's paraphrasing what Josh or Matt say.

[bad to the bone]

Geez, Parking Lot. D'ya think the WH windows can be as beautifully dressed as the first lady?

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

[bad to the bone]

CC, they probably just want to hire a "garden Tsar."

[Original MikeS]

The central problem O's administration has had selling health-care reform is that they have employed deception and duplicity from the start. The claim that a lack of health insurance caused the recession and that there is no way out of the recession without health-care reform, never passed the laugh test. Claims that it would reduce the deficit, while providing "better" care to more people were likewise simple to repudiate and, clumsiest of all, the claim that the massive new program wasn't massive.

Outside of Chicago, it is very hard to convince anyone to trust the government by having government officials lie to them.

[Porchlight]

MayBee,

It makes the shell game easier if Obama can talk out of both sides of his mouth and confuse everybody.

[bad to the bone]

Actually, there's no way the Ibamas are going to eat anything from that garden so they need to unload the produce on others.

[Frau The Schnauzer]

Doonan (did/does Barney's) means even more excitement in the WH. What a madcap administration we have. And Michelle's vegetable cart out in front! It will be just like a Sturgis movie written by Franz Kafka.
An ObamaCarp Production

[Porchlight]

Have you seen the price of arugula at WF WH lately?

[Porchlight]

It will be just like a Sturgis movie written by Franz Kafka.
An ObamaCarp Production

Good one Frau...I was thinking Busby Berkeley written by Lillian Hellman....

[MayBee]

So true, Porch. I lose track of when I'm supposed to stick to what is specifically in one of the proposed bills, and when I'm supposed to remember there is no finalized bill yet. It's dizzying.

[RichatUF]

centralcal-

I thought the garden was tainted with lead from sewer sludge.

He wants us all to become subsistance farmers.

[Some LaRouchie who'll get all the air time on MSNBCNN]

I was thinking Leni Riefenstahl written by Leni Riefenstahl.

[the bishop]

This is exactly what they wanted, since Mr. Myers used this issue as part of his argument to spy for the DGI, thirty odd years ago. One is not to infer from the sources, or apparently the text of the bill.

[PeterUK]

Tweet from Major Garrett:

"Obama just told OFA he wants to create a "farmer's market" outside the White House to sell Michelle's WH garden vegetables."

The head of the Secret Service has probably just hanged himself from the White House guttering.

[Porchlight]

MayBee,

1) If you don't like what has been hinted at so far: stick to what is specificallly in one of the proposed bills

2) If you're hoping for something but you haven't seen it so far: remember there is no finalized bill yet

Shorter version: If you are on the right, 1), if you are on the left, 2)

Does that help?

[PeterUK]

This has got to be a Chuck Jones cartoon.

[clarice]

Another good reason to stay away from people who are "trying to help you"--mostly they are utterly f*()ed up themselves..

More evidence of this should you need it:"For the past two years , he[liar Jason Blair] has been quietly working as a certified life coach for one of the most respected mental health practices in northern Virginia.

"

[Porchlight]

He wants us all to become subsistance farmers.

And forge steel in our back yards.

[MayBee]

Thanks, porch. It does help to just keep in mind that I am wrong.

[PDinDetroit]

Yup, this tears it. Obama must be in trouble as he is blaming Bush yet again - LUN.

He blames the previous administration when his current one has given 3 times more money.

He claims the previous administration wrote a "blank-check" when his current one defacto re-wrote bankruptcy law on the fly by giving unsecured non-creditors (I.E. - Unions) preference over secured creditors.

He outright lies about GM hiring people again, at a time when more dealerships are closing and people are being forced out of the corporate structure.

How's that Hopey-Changy thing working out for you now???

[centralcal]

lol, PUK!

[Jack is Back!]

He's feckless, reckless, and shameless!

In other words he is less - less than expected, less than deserved and less than welcome now that he is starting to reveal his less personality and cult of lessness. In fact, Klein, Yglesias, Sully and the others who enable lessness in our political class and direction are even lesser opinionators, writers and proponents of less except when it comes to the size, reach and power of GOVERNMENT - then there is no less only more, more and much more.

Less Government = More Liberty LUN

[Jim Ryan]

MO: It's not in the bill, you moron!

CURLY: But Mo! How else you gonna cut costs? I'm tellin' em we're cuttin' costs while increasing services but they're moiderin' me, Mo, they're moiderin' me!!

LARRY: Yeah, and my wife demands abortion services. I don't see them in the bill.

MO: They aren't there? Well I haven't read it. But the bill's not finalized, genius! [POKES LARRY IN THE EYES WITH TWO FINGERS]

LARRY: OOWWWW!! I'm sorry Mo!

CURLY: Mo, how do we know what we're proposin'? Either it is the bill or it ain't. Or it ain't, or it is. Which is it, is or ain't?

MO: You numbskull, tell 'em it's in the bill if they like it or it will be in the bill if they like it and it ain't in the bill if they don't like it or it won't be if they don't like it. See?

CURLY:

LARRY:

LARRY: You mean it's in the bill? Or it ain't? [GETS CLOBBERED] OWWW!! I'm sorry Mo!

[Porchlight]

Y'all will love this one:

The Hill: Obama: Everything gets "wee-weed" up in DC in August

[Soylent Red]

Since I am a "partner" with God and everything, where the hell is my percentage of the collection plate?

[clarice]

Soylent, I can't believe you said that!
You were supposed to take your share when they passed the plate,sweetie.When I said "he will provide", what did you think I meant?

[Ignatz]

--Since I am a "partner" with God and everything, where the hell is my percentage of the collection plate?--

Soylent, I believe Barry was using the royal we when he said 'we're partners with God'.
So I'm afraid that makes you one of the life or deathees not the life or deathers.

[clarice]

With the Obama's everything is "we we". I can't wait to see that veggie stand--just the sort of thing Americans were waiting for. And where are they putting the metal smelter..Shades of MAO MAO

[Ignatz]

--Obama just told OFA he wants to create a "farmer's market" outside the White House to sell Michelle's WH garden vegetables.--

Good idea, IMO.
Should go nationwide; a country full of Obamavilles.

[Appalled]

PUK:

The Chuck Jones movie you are looking for is called D. C. Daffy Obama is played by Marvin the Martian (talk about alien birth!), who just wants to demonstrate the superiority of his XZ142 Healthcare Rescrambulator.

[God]

Who's we infidel?

[MayBee]

The rabbi who tweeted about the song and the "God's partners" has deleted his tweets. It was, he said, due to his technical incompetence.

[PDinDetroit]

Weelly and troolly?

God, Ibama is such a tool! I have been down before and come back. Just watch me now!

Kinda reminds me of a song by Chumbawumba: Tubthumping. LUN.

[Ernie Chambers]

Mr. Red:

I'll be happy to represent you in this matter.

On contingency.

Sincerely,

[Jim Ryan]

CURLY: Look at this, Mo, the Dems' situation has "slipped completely out of control," says Charlie Cook. So, relax, Mo. Nyuck, nyuck, nyuck!

MO: Dems is us, you idiot! [POKES CURLY]

CURLY: Ow!! But Mo! It can't be us! We control both houses and the presidency! We are the smart ones with the Harvard degrees and all the power. How could it be us? Maybe we're GOP.

MO: Yeah?

CURLY: Yeah.

MO: Here's your GOP [YANKS CURLY'S NOSE]

CURLY: OOWWWWW!!!!

[clarice]

Jim, this three stooges thing is really good..I especially loved the one where they look at the bill if there's something in there they want and claim it's still being drafted when something they want isn't there..MayBee, the sharp tack, caught on to that game early.too.

[Jim Ryan]

Glad to give you a chuckle, Clarice!

[One Less Scumbag.]

From Brad DeLong;

Squeeze Health Supplier Costs Down, Sport!

John Hempton reports on the Australian health system:

Health Care Reform and single payer – an Australian perspective: I think the Australian system is superior to anything in Canada or the USA. I am less familiar with the European models. The Australian system is better thought through and will work better than anything Obama is proposing.... The way I think about it is that the US has a fundamentally broken market system. We know it is fundamentally broken because it costs a lot and produces fairly poor outcomes in aggregate.... Health coverage is one of the major issues for middle America and many are unsatisfied. By contrast political and general population satisfaction with the Australian system is high and has by-and-large been rising.

Australia has a system whereby primary medical care (general practice doctors), much specialist health care (for example a cardiologist) and almost all important pharmaceuticals are covered by the government but with a copayment by patient. Most the copayments are large enough to be annoying (the service is not free) but do not cover anything like the costs.... There are also government run public hospitals... a public emergency room which rations via triage. [Turn up with a sprained ankle and you might wait twelve hours, turn up with chest pains and the waters part for you.]

After admission to the public hospital [either through a consulting specialist or through the emergency room] you will get a shared ward and no doctor of your own choice – but a very high standard of care by global standards. Non-urgent procedures are queue rationed....

You can be admitted to a private hospital in the same way as the public hospital. The admission is either from a consulting specialist or through the emergency room at the public hospital. At a private hospital you have your choice of doctor, often a private room, sometimes slightly better food and distinctly less pressure to leave until you are recuperated. Most importantly, private hospitals are not highly queue rationed. When my wife needed knee surgery after a skiing accident the wait was two weeks at a public hospital or alternatively the next day the doctor was in surgery at the private hospital. That was an easy choice.

To go to a private hospital you will either need to pay for it or have private health insurance"

http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2009/08/squeeze-health-supplier-costs-down-sport.html

[bgates]

Republicans are only opposing health care reform to hurt Obama, which doesn't make sense because Obama has nothing to do with the bills in Congress, and is also bad politics because Obama was elected with a mandate to reform health care.

The people who oppose the bill are feigning outrage over Congressmen saying they haven't and won't read the bill, because no one really reads these bills. Also when they quote parts of the bill they are doing it out of context.

Besides, there is no bill.

Obama wants everyone to know that there's a lot of misinformation about the bill he has nothing to do with that doesn't exist.

Obama wants the vast majority of Americans who agree that health care needs a fundamental reorganization to know that their own health insurance will not be changed at all under any plan that has not been written in Congress according to anyone who has really read them, which is nobody.

Obama wants to remind everyone that abortion is a fundamental human right enshrined in the Constitution. Health care is also a human right. As such, the government should fund health care for all. There is no reason to think the government would fund abortions.

Obama would like us to know that no one is suggesting the government take over the health care system. Also, everyone loves Medicare, which is a government-run health care system.

Finally, health care reform has to be passed right away, because it's the only way to pull us out of the recession that is now ending thanks to the inspired leadership of the administration who didn't appreciate the magnitude of the crisis earlier this year, when they described it as the worst downturn since the Depression.

[One Less Scumbag.]

The Three Stooges have you where we want you.

[glasater]

Per Jim Ryan's link at Politico--

Along with Charlie Cook's report--Doug Schoen and Susan Estrich have "wee-weed" their pants over the D's loss of the independents.

[bgates]

The Three Stooges have you where we want you.

Great, a spokesstooge.

[One Less Scumbag.]

More Yglesias;

By Golly, a Two-Tier System!

An anesthesiologist slash right-wing crank who happens to share the name Ronald Dworkin with an important legal and political theorist has taken the august op-ed pages of the The Wall Street Journal to (a) whine about the fact that he, personally, might earn a lower income under a national health care system, and also that we should (b) “Expect a two-tier medical system and needless ER deaths if Congress and the White House have their way.”

It’s probably true that universal health care systems have a tendency to lead in a two-tier direction, as people with the means necessary to purchase additional services above the publicly provided “floor” wind up with somewhat more lavish care, though not necessarily better basic treatment for illness. That said, from this complaint you’d think that we were currently living in some Communist utopia in which health care is provided “to each according to his needs.” Even among Medicare recipients we have a two-tiered system according to whether or not you’re prosperous enough to afford “Medigap” coverage. Then there’s the tier separating people with really generous health care plans from those stuck in lower tiers that severely constrain your choice of doctor and access to specialists. And of course there’s the tier for people with catastrophic-only coverage and the tier for poor people on Medicaid and the tier for people with no insurance whatsoever. Probably more tiers than that, too. Our current system is clearly, obviously, and by design less egalitarian than all the major alternatives. That’s the whole point.

One question is why, with income inequality reaching unprecedented levels, we shouldn’t act to redress that inequity in our health care system? Dworkin appears to concede that inequity is bad, describing the residual inequity of a universal health care system as a great evil. But surely it’s progress relative to where we are.

Chew your food slowly, now.

[the bishop]

I know Bgates, this has more hands (on the one hand,)than a statue of Kali." Shouldn't have taken that last turn at Albuquerque,
and Duck Season"

[PeterUK]

Scumbagleo,is that you schuckweed?

A "one tier" health care means lowering as well as raising standards. "Equality isn't about fairness"

[clarice]

bgates, that is FABULOUS!! Pls send it to AT as a blog. (You really should be writing this for some comedian--maybe Gutfeld.

[Jim Ryan]

Our current system is clearly, obviously, and by design less egalitarian than all the major alternatives.

This is the epitome of leftist uncomprehension. It is not the case that our system is designed to be less egalitarian than leftist systems. It is simply not designed at all with an eye towards egalitarianism or the opposite. Our system protects liberty and it has structures within it that are designed to do that. But the system as a whole is not designed at all. It is free, rather than designed.

Economic egalitarianism is not a value worth pursuing. A private or governmental safety net for those who fall into dire straits through no fault of their own is required of a decent society. But economic equality is of no worth. Rawls was the best attempt to argue that it was and he failed.

The temptation to take a design stance toward societies is a totalitarian one. People can meet and set up social structures to address certain problems, but the moment they switch to designing their society, they've taken a view from above and are looking down on their puppets.

[hrtshpdbox]

Everything is all wee wee'd up, that's all I know.

And people made fun of Bush speeches?

[centralcal]

bgates: Clarice is right! I howled over your piece at 6:00 pm.

I have so missed Dean Barnett - he could blog very smartly and humorously and no one seems to have filled that void. Maybe you should try?

[Fresh Air]

Bgates is en fuego.

[caro]

You have a grateful audience here, bgates. I agree also that you should let your light shine.

[centralcal]

More Barack-o on the Farmer's Market:

"One of the things that we're trying to do now is to figure out, can we get a little farmers' market -- outside of the White House -- I'm not going to have all of you all just tromping around inside -- (laughter) -- but right outside the White House -- (laughter) -- so that -- so that we can -- and -- and -- and that is a win-win situation.

It gives suddenly D.C. more access to good, fresh food, but it also is this enormous potential revenue-maker for local farmers in the area. And -- and that -- those kinds of connections can be made all throughout the country, and -- and has to be part of how we think about health."

Didn't some Senator or other say that when Obama spoke it was like "listening to a symphony?"

[Gilligan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwAgORszB1w

enjoy

[PeterUK]

Ted Kennedy death bed wish for health care reform. Doesn't he get Medicare or Medicaid?

[bad to the bone]

bgates, I bow in your direction many times....

[MayBee]

bgates- that is brilliant!

Jim Ryan- I wish you'd written for the original Stooges.

[caro]

I can't believe there is not a farmer's market in DC already. Michelle could tend a stall there. You can tell these people do not live in the real world. That's why the Post Office gaffe... I bet Ibama has not been in a PO in 20 years except to name it perhaps.

[clarice]

A very discordant symphony, I think.
As for Ted's plea--why am I thinking of the media "Kennedy tragedy" tear jerkers cranked out even when the "tragedy" was that the Kennedy who killed himself was a fool who chose to play football while skiing down a sharp icy slope?

[clarice]

caro, there are LOTS of farmers' markets in D.C. Perhaps the Obama have been jetting around too much to notice.

[JM Hanes]

"I was thinking Leni Riefenstahl written by Leni Riefenstahl."

I was thinking Mo Stooges by Jim Ryan.