Brooks To White House - Man Up In Afghanistan

David Brooks urges the White House to commit to success in the central front against terror.

I quibble with his lead:

Always there is the illusion of the easy path. Always there is the illusion, which gripped Donald Rumsfeld and now grips many Democrats, that you can fight a counterinsurgency war with a light footprint, with cruise missiles, with special forces operations and unmanned drones.

I don't think that Biden and the people advocating the whack-a-mole approach consider it to be any sort of a counter-insurgency; they consider it an attempt to focus exclusively on Al Qaeda and drop the nation-building effort.  Here is Ralph Peters:

GEN. Stan McChrystal, an honorable soldier, has reported from Afghani stan: He wants more troops for a "classic" counterinsurgency strategy to secure the population, then win hearts and minds.

President Obama needs to make a decision: Either give the general the resources he believes he needs, or change the mission.

I'm for changing the mission. Concentrate on the continued destruction of al Qaeda and its allies. Nothing else matters in this mess.

...

What we really need is just a compact, lethal force of special operators, intelligence resources and air assets, along with sufficient conventional forces for protection and punitive raids. More troops just mean more blood and frustration.

Those who suggest pulling out completely and striking from offshore don't understand the fundamentals, either: We still need some boots on the ground, within grabbing distance of Pakistan's wild northwest, to strike fast to kill or capture elusive targets. And cruise missiles can't bring back prisoners, DNA samples or captured documents.

Our hunter-killer task forces should be deployed on a limited number of strategically positioned bases supported by air. Don't worry about the Afghan government -- Afghans don't.

Bill Roggio has experts who dismiss that approach.  But let's not criticize it as counter-insurgency on the cheap.

Comments

[Mustang0302]

Brooksie calling for anybody...to man up...about anything?

His pink tie is functioning as a tourniquet.

[bishop]

Maybe he should consult with who he thought
'was a cancer on the party' last fall.

[The author, a physicist, includes only one swipe at peer review in climate science, deep in the rant. Trouble in science ain't just in the weather.]

I think Tom is being bombarded with mind rays that provoke so many posts we can't keep up.

A great read is Rick Trebino's rant about academic peer review in his true story of a comment submission to a journal. Find it in the link under name at Steve McIntyre's climateaudit.org in the 1-2-3 post.
==============================

[Hearts and minds, people; not just air spaces and explosions.]

I like Ralph Peters a lot, but I think he's fastened on to too simple an idea. Sure, Afghanis aren't strong for national government, but everyone has local government, and we've got to not go invading their space like extraterrestrials.
=======================

[bishop]

Field Marshal Cawthorne, set up the ISI,
which is at the center of most of this.

[Captain Hate]

Always there is the illusion of the easy path.

What part of Brooksie's squishy head wasn't paying attention post 9/11 when GWB addressed the nation and stated that fighting terrorism would not be a quick or easy undertaking? He was very clear on the nature of the operation and faux conservatives like Brooksie don't get to create their own reality.

[Hmmmm. Strange. Very strange.]

OK, hot news. Why is Obama suddenly banging on Iran? Is the herd moving and he trying to get out front?
==================================

[Ranger]

Always there is the illusion of the easy path.

What he is really saying is that to a leftist or a credentialed moron, always there is the illusion of the easy path. But since the only people he seems to know are leftists and credientialed morons, he thinks this is a universal.

[The Brash Prince of Bluster.]

It has always been an easy path for Obama, merely symbolized by Ayers' involvement in completing his books. It's always been done for Obama, and the absence of real executive talent is going to be fatal.
======================

[Ranger]

http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=N2RmYWU0N2ZiMTQ5M2E1NzMxMzRmNDgyMThmMmY2NWM=>Today Is the Day Hard Reality Slapped President Obama Across the Face

[bishop]

It does beg Malone's question, from 'the Untouchables 'what are you prepared to do'
sanctions is a non starter, the Russians and the Chinese, won't agree to them, and it won't reverse the progress made. So the DNI was covering this up for a better part
of a year. I do recall someone saying something about giving the Israelis all the
latitude to dealing with the problem, but it
could be poor memory (sarc)

[megapotamus]

As plenty of Lefties are now admitting, they never had any interest or intention of prosecuting the Afghan front any more than the Iraqi, or for that matter the Iranian. Barry's declared bellicosity here and on Pakistan was not serious, not ever. THAT, indeed, is the Easy Path that some claim does not exist. Thing is, said path dissappears when one has to, you know, actually DO something, a concept from which Obama is tempermentally as well as culturally alienated. Can you imagine what is going on inside this doof's head right now? His whole being is daily rejected by friends and foes; foreign and domestic. He thought it would be easy, just Don't Be Bush. Not with the Iranians or the Russians or the Brits or the Egyptians to say nothing of the Pacifists, the Liberal Hawks, the Obamacons (there were actually a lot of these... jeez) the Christians, the Jews, the Lifers which includes those emotionally attached to their Gran, Gitmo purists, EIT oppos... and that doesn't even count the ideological opposition like me and probably you. Wooo! It ain't easy being President. It's worse when the office is God/Emperor.

Speaking of Easy, Krugman's column is titled, "It's easy being green...". No doubt he is declaring that he is abandoning his carbon laden lifestyle and returning to something more ecological; like Darius. No, didn't Read the Whole Thing. Didn't look.

[bishop]

He's denying the analysis on the cap n trade bill, with the 1800 dollar price tag.

[Bummer, Obama. What are we going to do now, Lobster Lady Tuidsmere?.]

Don't look, your brains will either drain out of your audio holes or you'll pluck your own eyes out. I posted a response to Ranger's link on another thread about sobbing in Brezinski's beer.
=================================

[Ranger]

"It's easy being green..."

Someone should remind the good doctor-professor that if it were easy, it would have happened already.

[Obligatory error bar comment.]

Yeah, bish, the CBO's estimate. Actually, the damage is incalculable, as pervasive as it will be. Tough stuff to measure.
====================================

[Pofarmer]

Our hunter-killer task forces should be deployed on a limited number of strategically positioned bases supported by air.

What I want to know is, how do we protect this force, on isolated bases in, essentially, hostile territory? Not to mention, how do we maintain, secure, and protect the local air assets necessary to such an operation? Looked at a map of Afghanistan lately?

[Pofarmer]

He's denying the analysis on the cap n trade bill, with the 1800 dollar price tag.

I figure that $1800 is probably just for part of the fees and taxes imposed. It won't come anywhere close to covering the increased energy costs and all the other resultant increases the Cap & Tax bill would cause.

[bishop]

Of course, the fact that they're willing to broach this, is the point. What part of "Prices are Necessarily Skyrocket" does he miss.

Now we could stage from India, I'm sure Pakistan will have no problem with this.
Huh, BECE (Best end of civilization ever)

[Captain Hate]

LOL @ BECE!

Btw, when you read Brooks and see the words "Man up" do you get the image that he previously said "Get me my slacks without pleats"?

[PD]

I bet all of Rush's callers today will be telling him how skinny he looked on Leno.

I didn't think the shirt was very flattering, though. Didn't hang right or something.

I did like when he whacked the Algore cutout in the car, and then backed up and did it ag'in.

[Pagar]

"It won't come anywhere close to covering the increased " I agree, IMO it will be thousands of dollars more. The price of every single thin used in America is going to increase and all for nothing, except to take more more out of people's pockets and put it in the government and or/leftist pockets.

[Ignatz]

Speaking of Brooksian squishes, here's Bruce Bartlett at Forbes explaining why a real conservative believes in tax increases and why supposing deficits could ever be eliminated by hacking away at the Leviathin welfare state is "childish".
God save us from our "friends"; the Buckleys, Brooks and Bartletts of the world.

[Cecil Turner]

I'm for changing the mission. Concentrate on the continued destruction of al Qaeda and its allies. Nothing else matters in this mess.

Sorry, but this is clueless. Aside from the logistics problem correctly cited above, it isn't sustainable politically. McChrystal's "initial assessment" makes a good case for the AF public being the center of gravity, but even if that isn't the goal, the idea that we can ignore them and continue operating in AF with the current level of casualties (or rising) is just nonsense. There are plenty of soldiers currently in theater for the casualty count to be unsustainable, yet not enough (per McChrystal) to conduct COIN. That obviously won't work, and Peters' plan adds precisely nothing.

[bishop]

Peters is becoming 'the ' Bill O'Reilly' of military analysists, sadly, he puts forward a plan full of bluster, but few solutions.

[Rick Ballard]

"Why is Obama suddenly banging on Iran?"

JiB linked a great article - Revealed: The ghost fleet of the recession anchored just east of Singapore which contained this rather cryptic note:

South Korean shipyard Hanjin Heavy Industries last week said it had been forced to put up for sale three container ships ordered at a cost of £60 million ($100 million) by the Iranian state shipping line after the Iranians said they could not pay the bill.

It may be that the ayatollahs have stolen themselves broke - there have been several hints as to Iranian weakness recently. Obama may lose Iran as an ally before he loses Chavez.

[The United nations]

we protest the Iranian actions very strongly! If provoked further, we will pass another resolution.That will show them!

[The United nations]

Rick, if you look at that, plus the other ghost fleet off of Luzon, shipping is off by a huge percentage. The Japanese yen has skyrocketed against the dollar, and the Chinese, Taiwanese, and Koreans can no longer sustain their fixed exchange rates.

This is one reason I am very suspicious of any talk of recovery. In Asia yes, but not in North America.

[Jim Ryan]

NRDT pretty good issue this week. Goldberg article good. Steyn boosts tea-partiers. Other good articles.

[PD]

Rush: Most-commented-upon aspect of his appearance was when he backed up the car and ran over Algore again.

[JM Hanes]

TM:

It is counterinsurgency on the cheap, from Mr. Armchair Himself Brooks.

It's every lesson about the futility of force protection on isolated bases unlearned. It simply compounds the disadvantages of the powerful in an asymmetric war. Where the hell is the intel on targets supposed to come from?

Flooding the zone with clandestine C.I.A. agents doesn't hold a candle to native populations who trust you enough to sidle up and tell you all you need to know. Nobody is going to be making any treks to strategic bases dotted about, or knocking on any strategic front doors.

With a dispersed population in particular, we don't even have enough enough spies and special ops guys to get to all the places they would need to be, or to ferret out potential informants on the fly if they did. You need the brother of the cousin of the uncle by marriage of the nephew in a cave overlooking a pass for that, and you don't get to know that guy holed up in a base fifty miles of rocky ravines away. It won't making distinguishing between civilians and combatants any easier either, an excruciatingly difficult proposition which is already killing our troops under the current ROE.

Brooks should stick to the apologias he does best. Ralph Peters is a bigger disappointment. You can't get more solidly behind the troops than he is, but in the view from my own armchair, he looks deeply misguided on tactics and objectives to me.

[RichatUF]

Rick-

Great to see you back.

In re: Iran. I'm not exactly sure how weak the Iranian regime is, but if Obama is worried they might collapse, he might undertake a bombing campaign in the hopes that it shifts popular support back to the regime. It might also act as boost to plus up his own flagging popularity. That is what happened when Bill Clinton bombed Iraq about a half dozen times during his Presidency.

More later.

[JM Hanes]

What is really, really, really incomprehensible to me is why virtually none of these folks talking strategics seems to have even glanced at a map. Even if you ignore Afghanistan, the crossroads of Asia, at the nexus of the world's greatest proliferators, how can you possibly miss Iran with Iraq on one side and Afghanistan on the other?

[bishop]

They think that just happens by coincidence,
JM, that was one of the conceits of that clunker 'Lion's for. . .'that actually tried
to demonize our involvement in Afghanistan.

[rse]

. With any luck, this crowd’s weapons-grade refusal to see the hard truths of a difficult and dangerous world won’t get anyone killed.

My favorite quote from Ranger's link above.

[JM Hanes]

Whoops: I did Brooks a disservice at 2:35!

It's Peters describing COIN on the cheap. Brooks was issuing a clarion call gently prodding Obama (poor fellow, darkest hour, such tough choices) to fish or cut bait, with a vague suggestion that fishing might be nice.

[matt]

Foreign Policy Magazine is reporting that Obama asked Petraeus and McChrystal to "Scrub" their reports of data that conflicted with his own opinion.

He apparently told them he is "disinclined" to send more troops. It's official. The man is a traitor.

[willem]

And what of the cargo in those ghost ship fleets? Just think of all the missing tariffs, taxes, duties and fees trapped in the empty holds of each voyage untraveled.

This is no small thing.

[Pofarmer]

It may be that the ayatollahs have stolen themselves broke

I think there may be a lesson there.

[Pofarmer]

He apparently told them he is "disinclined" to send more troops. It's official. The man is a traitor

Nah,just a dishonest lefty, but, I repeat myself.

[Thomas Collins]

In light of the Obama Administration's orgy of conciliatory internationalism this week, it is worth remembering that 81 years ago, the elite internationalist establishment outlawed wars of aggression. See LUN.

It never ceases to amaze me how many formally educated Westerners can be utter idiotic boobs who fail to realize that although keeping the peace is always difficult, it is impossible under a rubric of conciliatory internationalism.

[Thomas Collins]

See LUN for a NY Times article on one of the groups that in the 1920s was pushing for the outlawing of war. Well educated and well meaning folks, no doubt.

[pat michaels]

bring them home like you promised !!

or man up, grow a pair devil man

[RichatUF]

JM Hanes-

I looked over Peter's article and was struck by his "Going Hollywood" theme. I'd think he would counsel against such a policy because of the potential for Lone Survivor and Task Force Ranger type battles. Anyone think that Obama could handle Black Hawk down any better than Clinton did?

Also I'm not surprised that Iran or Central Asia generally doesn't enter the conversation when Obama is stumbling to come up with another Afghanistan strategy.

[Rick Ballard]

Rich,

Who's leasing the Afghan warlods wearing Taliban masks? Of all the muslim kleptocracies, my bet is on the Iranians. They have the biggest need for high oil prices due to their demographic situation and they can surely see that the current pricing is outlandish (thanks, Goldman-Sachs). Oil's detachment from supply/demand considerations cannot continue forever and a 50% reduction is certainly within the realm of possibility. Renting warlords to keep tension up makes some sense - even if the Wizard of O gets vewy, vewy mad he's unlikely to do more than the goatherd's tent and camel butt type of air sorties which Bubba loved in his wag the dog days.

Sarkozy's public humiliation of this blundering buffoon may change the dynamic though - we could see an irrational reaction from the Wizard in response. He may order Quebec bombed. After all, they speak a lot of French up there. That'd teach Sarkozy not to screw around with a fool.

[matt]

MoveOn.org sent an e mail out to 5,000,000 contacts today urging them to write their Congressman to bring the troops home. I blogged it as MoveOn mobilizes against America.LUN. bastards.

[Gregory Koster]

Dear Thomas Collins: In fairness to the 1920s "outlaw war" crowd, they were just a decade away from the most destructive war the world had ever seen (and still is for Britain, France, and the United States.) The "never again" impulse was quite strong. The ninnies who have swallowed this bunk today have no such excuse. It's also worth noting that the driving forces for outlawing war in the 1920s were not usually those who fought in the great war. In general, the better the war record, the less likely they were to buy into outlawing war. The reverse was not so true, but still a better bet.

This brings me to those who think The Once got smacked by reality today:

So?

How often was Neville Chamberlain smacked in the face by reality? The Remilitarization of the Rhineland, the 1935 Naval Treaty, Austria, Czechoslovakia 1938, Czechosolvakia 1939 all smacked Neville to precious little effect. Did precious little good. Even after he finally came round to declaring war, he couldn't wage it at all effectively. So too, with The Once, who is just as confident in his political skills and knowledge as Chamberlain was. The difference? Neville Chamberlain WAS a skilled politician, who made good on many big, important jobs. He had 18 years experience in Parliament and 12 in the British Cabinet when he got the top job, and was generally acknowldeged to have done well. Trouble is, the Premiership tested him where he was weak, and he failed disastrously.

The Once doesn't have a record, nor does he care. Not until deaths, lots of deaths, start happening will reality break through. Even then it will be everyone else's fault. Neville Chamberlain's career ended in high tragedy for the man and his country. The Once is merely a cipher, put in office because the electorate was tired of Geo. W., and The Once was indisputably the most "not-Geo.-W." running. No tragedy, with its respect inducing quality, for him. Tragedy will come from those who pay the price for his arrogance and witlessness. It's horrifying that the best protection of American interests in the Middle East is Israel, which has to fight not only its declared foes, but America now, too.

As for Bartlett, he makes good sense in denouncing Geo. W. for his profligate spending. Geo. W. was no conservative domestically, save in his judicial nominations. But Bartlett has no answers either. It's remarkable that for all his bawling about fiscal rectitude, there's nothing at all about cutting spending. What's left? Just grousing at the Right, being a useful idiot for the liars in the press (Sullivan in his mud pit today, which I decline to link to) basking in his strange new respect, which will end soon enough. He, like Anthony Kennedy, will find a size twelve bootprint on his backside as he picks himself out of the gutter. Fitting decoration for Bartlett.

Sincerely yours,
Gregory Koster

[matt]

Rick;

That was one of my questions as well. I think it's some Saudis and Gulf Arabs plus the Iranians. I think the IED's are Iranian. They seem to be getting deadlier, which was the pattern in Iraq. The average Taliban foot soldier makes @ $150/week.

Maybe we should redeploy some Predators into Western Afghanistan.

[bishop]

Right, who were the original underwriters of the Taliban, the ISI and Saudi General Intelligence, which puts the bow in context,
doesn't it.but I wouldn't put it past the Iranians to chip in.

[Ignatz]

LOL Rick.
As an OT aside I followed a link to Brad Delong's site and read around a bit.
Reminded me what an amazingly blinkered world he and his commentors live in.
In their world, really bad Fed monetary policy, really bad regulatory enforcement, really bad regulations, really bad fiscal policy and a bunch of greedy Wall Street sharks feeding off of all these government boondoggles somehow means Keynes and these statists were right and members of the Chicago school are not only wrong and contemptible but no longer even economists.

There are few things as aggravating as watching the triumph of dimwits so stupid that they conflate the dignified gent walking by with the stench they smell from their own soiled trousers.

[Thomas Collins]

Gregory Koster, I can see your point that, from the perspective of the 1920s, an attempt to outlaw war may have seemed to be worth a try. I just would have hoped today's conciliatory internationalists might learn from the 1920s. I guess not.

[clarice]

Hope this works--

[clarice]

Too bad--the left side got cut off and it's the very best part of the picture.

[clarice]

Well, right side as you face it but left side as the participants tand.

[RichatUF]

Clarice, that just isn't fair.

Rick-

Iran is deepy involved in the Afghan economy, such as it is out west, so it wouldn't surprise me that they are also renting warlords by the bushel. Pretty sure the Obama Administration would like to talk to them to get their input on how to help in Afghanistan too. Would like to believe Ledeen is right about the Iranian regime though.

[Rick Ballard]

Who's the black guy with the new leader of the free world?

[Terry Gain]

I think the IED's are Iranian.

The Iranians are waging war on the United States with impunity (and have been for years).

[centralcal]

You know. . . Carla Bruni looks classically understated, elegant. Michelle looks like she is going to her sophomore prom - pink mini-heels, spaghetti strapped dress, at odds pearl necklace - all she is lacking is the wrist corsage.

[clarice]

Well, Carla is a former model and more beautiful that almost anyone, but the point is she knows how to dress. Even a less glamorous person would look far better in the more suitable clothing she wears than our fashion icon does.

[Rick Ballard]

Oh, 'Chelle's just showing off her savoirwtf? again. She doesn't want to take the chance of her stunning appearance distracting folks from the full power of Barry's intellect. They display a truly extraordinary blend of brains and beauty. Perhaps Dr J has access to an electron microscope capable of capturing an image...

[centralcal]

Actually, Clarice, you are being kind. You should see the 5 photos featured at Puff Ho w/Sylvio Berlusconi. I think Puff Ho may be getting a little sour on our national fashion icon. Side views of tummy pooch, butt sticking way out, hair indescribable, and chest flattened.

Lovely, lovely.

[DrJ]

Perhaps Dr J has access to an electron microscope capable of capturing an image...

Sure, but whatever for? It is hard to deposit a thin gold or carbon layer on grease.

[Ignatz]

--It is hard to deposit a thin gold or carbon layer on grease.--

Is that a fried chicken joke, doc?

[the last new york times readers on the upper east side]

No wonder Sarko always has that smile on his face....he's smirking at Obama and saying wtf, man? Can't your wife find some decent clothes?

Michelles necklace is @ 8" too long. Very nouveau riche....

[Original MikeS]

On my FireFox, I just right click the picture and choose view image

[Ann]

Ladies, you changed by mind. She can act!

[centralcal]

Original MikeS: you are so right! What a hoot that picture is when you can see the whole thing.

[clarice]

Let me try to make the pic smaller and see if everyone can then see the entire shot.

[Ann]

Today's disdress!

Barack Will Save The World!

[PeterUK]

Sorry folks Your president is an android. No human could do this.

[PeterUK]

Ann,
Looks like she is juggling.

[Ann]

Sorry, Clarice. I didn't mean to step on your loverly picture. That is hysterical!!!!

Beauty and the Beast!

[PeterUK]

Clarice.
That looks like "Celebrity Come Dancing" or a bad act off "The X Factor".

[Original MikeS]

What's going on with Michelle's leg?
My daughter's Barbies used to do that.

[clarice]

Being Flotus is a hard job, involving many costume changes and requiring many hours of primping and so forth--You can do a good job at it by just being a gracious person and helping those things in which you have a geniuine interest, though even then your participation has to be rather minimal.
Women who like Michelle--and Hillary before her--think this is their time to shine, achieve neither their own ambitions not carry out well the necessarily ceremonial functions of the post.

Carla does. She's not planning to be queen of the world when this is over.

And she's doing a great job not laughing out loud at Michelle's frenetic, flopping efforts.

[PeterUK]

We shouldn't mock the afflicted - but we will!

[flodigarry]

Clarice and Ann love the pictures.

MO would greatly benefit from a term or two at at a nice charm school.

[Captain Hate]

Is Michelle doing the Electric Lurch?

[JM Hanes]

MikeS -- Thanks for the hint. You can right click on a mac and "Open Image in New Window" to see the whole thing too. That thar is some fancy footwork, Clarice. The photo is a regular study in footwork.

I was so dumbstruck at the fact that FLOTUS would wear a sundress to a Summit, I just missed the pearls altogether. LOL Ann. Some one needs to tell her that it's Carla's little black dress that folks are talking about when they tell you that you can wear something from afternoon to evening.

[Rick Ballard]

500mg of Thorazine every morning would be a start. Is Sark explaining how a decent shine is achieved?

[JM Hanes]

What's with the crack in Barack's hairdo? It looks like his skull hasn't completely knit together yet.

[flodigarry]

I know this topic came up in yesterday's threads. Believe it or not, I think some of Barack's hometown team is seeing the light and becoming increasingly bold. On the way home from work today in Chicago, the car in front of me had not one, but two anti-Obama bumperstickers. While I was awed at the driver's cojones, I did attempt some quick calculations on the length of time that both the car and stickers remained unblemished.

For those that are curious - the first sticker read "Somewhere in Kenya a village is missing its idiot" The "O" in idiot had the O iconography. The second sticker read "OBAMA - One Big A$$ed Mistake America"

To quote Glenn - "heh"

[clarice]

I don't know if I can find it again but for her arrival Carla wore a lovely tailored suit with the kind of jacket that Jackie Kennedy used to wear--looser than you see these days but allowing full mobility and flattering to everyone..ot appeared to be a pale almost yellow beige and she wore a lovely little Hermes red birkin bag. Utter perfection.

[DrJ]

Is that a fried chicken joke, doc?

Not intentionally, Ignatz. I'm no racist!

(You need to apply a very thin layer of gold or carbon to your sample to conduct away the electrons that bombard the surface. Otherwise, you get charge build-up and discharge, which usually ruins your electronmicrograph.)

Resume the fashion snark!

[Original MikeS]

Is Michelle doing the Electric Lurch?

Looks like she's wee wee'd up!

[Ann]

Ann,
Looks like she is juggling.

Puk, Nope.. just mean preaching and ranting to the choir of our glorious savior Obama.

[clarice]

Here's the picture I was talking about.

[clarice]

here it is

[bishop]

I try to cut down on the snark, but she really needs better advisors on this issue, just for starters She went to Princeton & Yale Law, worked at Sidley & Austin she should haved picked up a little etiquette along the way.

[Captain Hate]

O-MikeS, I echo JMH's thanks for the right-click tip.

[centralcal]

Carla Bruni channels Jackie O

[Ann]

To be fair, (which is no fun) Michelle is not the only one that could learn a thing or two from Carla.

Puk, isn't that your zebra?

[clarice]

And then there's that false eyelash thing:

In this case they look alive..

[centralcal]

The lady from Japan (directly behind and obscured by Carla) is always very well turned out also.

Many of the other ladies have some heft (I can relate), but they could still dress better.

[JM Hanes]

What's a little snark among friends, bishop? Just think of it as after hours entertainment for folks who work hard all day trying to keep the world from spinning out of orbit.

[Ann]

Wow, cc. Great catch!

Grace and Poise

[clarice]

All my pics are vanishing...Hmmmmmm

[centralcal]

I can see them, Clarice.

[JM Hanes]

centralcal:

The Obamas are going to be really pissed when they find out that Nic & Carla are Jack and Jackie!

[clarice]

Now the pics are back. Very strange.