Obama Can't Move The Needle

The new NY Times/CBS News poll shows that Obama just can't convince the American people of two simple messages - his health reform won't include death panels and it won't cover illegal immigrants.

Here is question 52:

52. Do you think the changes to the health care system under consideration will or will not allow taxpayer dollars to be used to help illegal immigrants receive health insurance, or don't you know enough about the changes yet to say?

That should not be a trick question - Obama was quite specific on this in his nationally televised address, saying the following:

There are also those who claim that our reform efforts would insure illegal immigrants. This, too, is false. The reforms -- the reforms I'm proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: You lie! (Boos.)

In light of Obama's clear statement and the hubbub that swirled around "You lie", the poll results are shocking:  30% think the proposed reforms will include aid to illegal immigrants; 22% think it will not; and 48% are still not sure.  Who are you going to believe, the President of the United States or some screaming nut?  Hold that thought.

The President was as emphatic but not any more convincing on the topic of death panels:

Some of people's concerns have grown out of bogus claims spread by those whose only agenda is to kill reform at any cost. The best example is the claim made not just by radio and cable talk show hosts, but by prominent politicians, that we plan to set up panels of bureaucrats with the power to kill off senior citizens. Now, such a charge would be laughable if it weren't so cynical and irresponsible. It is a lie, plain and simple. (Applause.)

Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/09/obama-health-care-speech_n_281265.html

That "plain and simple" lie is only understood as such by 23% of respondents.  From the poll:

53. Do you think the changes to the health care system under consideration will or will not create government organizations that will make decisions about when to stop providing medical care to the elderly, or don't you know enough about the changes yet to say?

26% say the reforms will create such "government organizations", despite Obama's vigorous denial; 23% embrace Obama's message that this is a lie; and 51% remain puzzled.  I can't see Russia from my front steps but I can hear Sarah Palin laughing from Asia.

For a great communicator, Obama did not communicate these points too effectively.

Comments

[Ranger]

Sounds like Obama now has the certified credibility of a used car salesman.

[bgates]

Clinton would never have gotten into this mess. (Not this particular one.) Bubba would have dispatched his lizards to spread the word to the rubes that the death panels are for the illegal immigrants.

[Semenfilledleo]

The problem is that Obama just hasn't been given enough time on TV to explain his plan.

Those un-American terrorists at Faux Noise won't even show the President's face or mention his name (except for HUSSEIN)!

[Semen'simaginarysonleo]

MOM!

[matt]

Obama has a huge credibility issue. He brought it all on his lonesome.Boo frickin hoo.

[Ann]

For a cowboy that communicated just fine!

Bush: America's Security First - World Popularity Second. Final News Conference

h/t Nice Deb twitter

[Dave (in the People's Banana Republic of MA)]

Imagine if Bush was still in office.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

Well they may have tried to ignore the Tea Parties, but I guarantee this will get their attention:

Via WaPo:

Democratic political committees have seen a decline in their fundraising fortunes this year, a result of complacency among their rank-and-file donors and a de facto boycott by many of their wealthiest givers, who have been put off by the party's harsh rhetoric about big business. ...More

[Gregory Koster]

Communications don't help when trust is gone. Who'd believe The Once if he said the sun was going to rise in the east tomorrow morning? Look at the record:

1. I'm gonna sit down with McCain and we'll decide how much public money we're gonna spend in this campaign. Today McC wanders about in his usual daze where domestic politics are concerned, complete with the "SUCKER!" tattoo on his forehead.

2. I wrote DREAMS FROM MY FATHER. Hahahahahaha!

3. I'm gonna close Guantanamo by 22 January 2010. Hahahahaha! (And note the article is a collaboration by the POST with Propublica a wholly owned Soros subsidiary. Evidently the POST's editors have decided it is much more efficient to mainline it instead of smoking it.

But you get the depressing idea.

Sincerely yours,
Gregory Koster

[Gregory Koster]

Gee I hope that gets rid of the bold.

[Gregory Koster]

Whew.

[JB]

"For a great communicator, Obama did not communicate these points too effectively."

It's not about communication, it's about a credibility gap.

He shot his wad selling the stimulus (which has not delivered as promised), plus his current agenda is at odds with campaign promises.

Hence public trust lost.

[bgates]

a de facto boycott by many of their wealthiest givers, who have been put off by the party's harsh rhetoric about big business
and who are just coming out of a coma they entered in...1996, maybe? How did these people manage to get wealthy and politically active without noticing that the Democratic party views the voluntary exchange of goods and services for money as the root of all evil?

[daddy]

Just as a side topic, the Guinness wants to know if you guys think Bill Clinton, even though he pushed Hillary's health care, is still an American at heart who believed in Capitalism? Without question Clinton was a far smarter guy history-wise than Obama, but the Guinness was just wondering if the general opinion was that Clinton was as fundamentally anti-American as president Barrack? My uneducated, naive opinion, FWIW, is that Clinton at heart, used anti-Capitalism, where convenient, in order to accomplish his political agenda with strong urgings from Hillary. I actually think that if he had married better he might have made a decent Trent Lott. Anyhow, just thought I'd throw that out there, since Qadaffi, or Castro never called Clinton "my son" and yearned for him to be President for Life, like Castro, Chavez and Quadaffi have done for Obama, but oh well, just goes to show that you can't please all the egotistic, maniacal, hate filled, anti-American dictators all the time, no matter how hard you try.

[Terry Gain]

I can't see Russia from my front steps but I can hear Sarah Palin laughing from Asia.

Highlarious. I just love that line.

For a great communicator, Obama did not communicate these points too effectively.

He's great at conjuring up the aura of self importance necessary to sound earnest while reading a series of vacuous statements.

He says he'll expand coverage to include 46 (or 30) million more people and reduce costs and the public immediately knows they are listening to a snake oil salesman.

[Rick Ballard]

Clinton's belief system revolves around the tin god he worships in the mirror every morning - same as Ogabe. They are both very weak intellectually but I would give the edge to Clinton for his ability to master patter concerning a subject to the point where he appears to have a grasp.

The focus should be on whether Michelle or Hilary is a more committed leftist loon - I think the jury is still out on that. Hilary is much brighter than Michelle (so is a 15 watt bulb) but I believe the Black Angus to be much 'meaner' than the Red Witch. Much more volatile and lacking in self control as well (flying lamps and ashtrays notwithstanding). BA also has a much higher sense of entitlement than does RW and she puts it on display regularly to her great disadvantage.

It will be interesting to watch the 'personal' favorability ratings of Obama to see how far below Clinton they finally fall. While I never found Clinton to possess any more charm than a run of the mill used car salesman, Obama's pseudoprofessorial hectoring grates like nails accross a chalkboard. He is also less than half as believable as Clinton and lies twice as much - not an endearing trait.

I'd say that capitalism was a bit safer with the Clintons but the Obamas' ineptitude may yet save the day.

[drjohn]

Given how lies so freely flow from the mouth of the One this really isn't surprising.

[Hogarth]

Is Obama lying about coverage for illegals? Well, no, not in a Clintonian sense. But this report from the Washington Post seems to be universally ignored, and it very clearly states Obama's intentions to cover illegals through the simple expedient of making them legal:

President Obama said this week that his health care plan won't cover illegal immigrants, but argued that's all the more reason to legalize them and ensure they eventually do get coverage.

He also staked out a position that anyone in the country legally should be covered - a major break with the 1996 welfare reform bill, which limited most federal public assistance programs only to citizens and longtime immigrants.

"Even though I do not believe we can extend coverage to those who are here illegally, I also don't simply believe we can simply ignore the fact that our immigration system is broken," Mr. Obama said Wednesday evening in a speech to the Congressional Hispanic Caucus Institute. "That's why I strongly support making sure folks who are here legally have access to affordable, quality health insurance under this plan, just like everybody else.

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/sep/18/obama-ties-immigration-to-health-care-battle/?feat=home_cube_position1

[Janet]

Ann - Thank you for that link to G.W.Bush's final news conference. Oh I miss him. The camera panning out to the silent pasty faced elites while W. stood up for our country sums it up. That Helen woman in the front row looks like a corpse. What is she doing there?

I watched a Breitbart B-cast last night, and the fresh, new, smart talent is just amazing. The old American-hating guard needs to stand down. They have made their point. We get it - you hate America. Move your smug faces off the stage, and let some America-loving fresh faces fill your seats.

[Brett Bellmore]

The problem on the illegal immigrant front is that he manifestly WAS lying: The legislation nominally prohibits payments for illegal immigrants' health care, but lacks any mechanism to enforce this prohibition, and efforts to add an enforcement mechanism have been rebuffed.

Further, Obama's subsequent statements on the subject make clear that he does WANT illegal immigrants covered.

So. We have a law which supposedly prohibits payments, but which deliberately lacks any means of preventing them, and which will be run by an administration which supports such payments. Bottom line: It WAS a lie. It's the 22% who are wrong.

[FB]

How could anybody believe anything he says at this point? He's lied to the press, on his website, on TV, and at the podium. He's lied to his base, his opposition, and the moderates in between. He's lied to our allies, breaking promises made mere months before. Even our enemies can't possibly believe anything he says, which is one of the reasons he will get even less than expected (which is little enough) out of his apology/capitulation tours.

Well, all politicians lie (or "pander" if you want to be nice) but few have lied as audaciously and frequently as Obama. It goes beyond mere politics, and I'm starting to think that there is something seriously wrong with the guy that makes him do this.

[Dave Walsh]

Brett, you nailed it. He lied about the illegal aliens, because there was no enforcement mechanism. Kind of like me grounding my teenager for the weekend, then my wife and I leaving town for the weekend. The thing is, no matter what any bill says, illegals will get treatment. No doctor is going to turn away someone in need of emergency care. The liability is too great and, well, it would be inhumane to do so.

[nothussein]

Nobody believes Barak Obama because, of course, he's lying about these two issues.

First, on health care reform, Barack Obama ran for President by promising the American public that he opposed a universal mandate requiring all Americans to purchase health insurance.

So, he lied to us about that.

Secondly, as the previous poster noted, Obama intends to grant amnesty to the illegal aliens in our country. He has made that plain and simple. He's lying by subterfuge on that issue.

Politicians lie. Of that, there can be no debate. Some politicians lie successfully; and history records their triumphs.

Obama is not able to lie successfully. He's a horrid failure at it.

[Dave Walsh]

Oh, and by the way, Palin was right on the "death panels" at that time. The text she referred to with that rhetorical flourish was changed within a week of her writing about it. She nailed it! Since it is gone (for now) and the poll was taken recently, it is technically correct that the "death panels" no longer exist. But the effective text once did.

[mad-as-H]

Don't waste your time reading fringe media or watching them on Cable. Cancel all your subscriptions until 2010 election is over.

The only thing that will save them is a government bailout. Oh, wait ......

[bio mom]

This poll was +15 Dem. And all adults.

[Captain Hate]

I pretty much agree with Rick's response to daddy: Slick was a slightly smarter than average grifter who was only out for himself; witness how his administration was a complete disaster for the Donks in terms of controlling no branches of power after he left while having all of them at the start of his administration. I also concur that Bammers will drop below Clintoon's ultimate favorability ratings because Slick, being a sexual predator, figured out what worked to get over on people while Barry the dork let others do that for him. Also the young Slick obviously worshiped JFK while it's hard to tell (particularly because he never tells the truth) who Bammers looked up to because neither of them had an actual father in their lives (a lack that continuously is overlooked by everybody that explains so much about their needy personalities, but obviously isn't pc enough in our non-judgemental BS sound-byte world).

[LTC John]

"For a great communicator, Obama did not communicate these points too effectively."

Again I must ask why people confuse a pleasant speaking voice with communication skills? Quickly now, think of some of the great rhetorical points he has scored...or a quote that will stand the test of time... anything? Or a simple and direct message that didn't sound alarm bells in your BS meter.

[Yehiel]

Words. Just words. Keep your eyes on what he does. A Chicago politician with a Marxist-Leninist bent. Notice how allies are treated and enemies embraced. He is yet to meet a Marxist he does not like.

[Lou Shumaker]

I went searching for Gov. Pawlenty's comment that illegal immigrants are banned from Medicare programs too, but they come and get the services anyway. I found some chortling on HuffPost and other left sites about Pawlenty getting p0wned when Stephanopolis handed him a study on the ineffectiveness of keeping illegal aliens out of Medicare programs.

The link led to a NYT editorial:

"A House oversight committee reviewed six state Medicaid programs in 2007 and found that verification rules had cost the federal government an additional $8.3 million. They caught exactly eight illegal immigrants."

What struck me about the editorial is that it, in essence, said: "Verificiation rules to keep illegal immigrants out don't work, so we shouldn't try. But Obama told the truth because the law will ban illegal immigrants from receiving taxpayer funded health care IN BIG LETTERS."

The Times editorial writers must receive extensive chiropractic care to handle the contortions their logic centers undergo.

[Elliott]

With gems like these, the question is whether Bartlett's publishes a second volume just for the One.

"We are the ones we've been waiting for."

"What started as a whisper in the corn fields of Iowa has grown to a chorus."

"You can put lipstick on a pig: it's still a pig."

"We worship an awesome god in the blue states."

"...they cling to guns and religion."

"I could no more disown him than I could disown my white grandmother..."

"You want a fight, President Bush?"

[TParty4USA]

"For a great communicator, Obama did not communicate these points too effectively."

The definition of a "great communicator" is perhaps not limited to someone who merely communicates the truth effectively. It may also be accurate to say that a "great" communicator is a person who communicates lies effectively enough to actually fool listeners into believing you're truthful.

Under either definition, whether lying or not at any given time, it becomes more and more evident that Obama is quite a bit less than a "great" communicator.

He cannot overcome the fact that, while he may be able to fool some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time, he cannot fool all the people all the time -- not even by talking more and more, bringing more and more balls into his juggling act, and all the while trying to wag his finger at his critics.

His act is fascinating to watch, kind of like seeing a slow motion train wreck.

[Slow motion, but faster than I can stand to watch.]

Obama Jones you better watch your speed.
===========================

[Ignatz]

--Without question Clinton was a far smarter guy history-wise than Obama, but the Guinness was just wondering if the general opinion was that Clinton was as fundamentally anti-American as president Barrack?--

daddy,
My theory is they are both narcissists, but since there are two basic types of Ns; the somatic and the cerebral, their MO is quite different. Clinton is the former and Barry the latter.

The somatic manifests his Nism through the persoanl and sexual manipulation of others. Can be just as smart, or smarter, than a cerebral N, but they satisfy their insecurities and need for adulation through serial sexual use of others and in glad handing but fake personal relations.

Cerebral Ns are the cold, arrogant, rational ones who satisfy their needs through achievement and power and feigned superiority. These clowns are much more likely to be wed to an idealogy, hence Barry's rigid leftism as opposed to BillyBob's ease at triangulation.

[Fresh Air]

How did these people manage to get wealthy and politically active without noticing that the Democratic party views the voluntary exchange of goods and services for money as the root of all evil?

I think it's a Jewish thing.

[Fresh Air]

If that poll was +15 Dem and not LV, then the adjustment needs to be at least 10 points in the other direction, since the parties are at parity or close to it. Another crock poll from the Slimes. Do they play the same record over and over again at their newsroom parties, too?

[centralcal]

No kidding, Fresh Air. Over at Politico, Ben Smith has only this comment regarding the poll:

"THE GOP'S BAD NUMBERS: A central question of the midterms seems to be which is stronger: Anti-incumbent sentiment, or still-deep distrust of the Republican Party on almost every key issue.

One remarkable stat from the Times poll today: "Most Americans trust Mr. Obama more than Republicans to make the right decisions on the issue; 76 percent said Republicans had not even laid out a clear health care plan."

Okey Dokey, Ben!

[centralcal]

Yoo Hoo, PUK - where are you?

Jake Tapper tweet: I dont want to name names, but there is a serious need for a vat of Head & Shoulders at the G-20 summit.

I am guessing Gordon Brown. Whaddya think?

[Captain Hate]

Another crock poll from the Slimes. Do they play the same record over and over again at their newsroom parties, too?

My guess would be the Woodstock soundtrack.

[clarice]

DA, You've got it--a (Jewish) friend wrote to me that his co religionists seem to need to stare at the headlights facing them for a long time before they notice it's a truck bearing down on them//They shoulda bailed when after a long fight for treating people on ability and merit the Dems got into identity politics and ethnic spoils.

[clarice]

**FA, You've got it****

[Ranger]

I suspect that the news about Iran is only going to diminish how much people are willing to take Barry's word for something. It is now clear that he knew Iran was cheating and lying and he told us they could still be delt with through diplomacy.

[JB]

Obama couldn't communicate to a paper bag.

The guy is completely and totally useless.

The morons that voted for him elected his melanin and forgot to check if he actually had a brain.

[Jim Treacher]

The Great Prevaricator.

[Jim Ryan]

O: Rahm, they're just not buying this sh*t.

AIDE: Excuse me sirs? Um, it's maybe that a lot of the facts are really truly facts but more a way of presenting it, is why they're not buying into it.

O: This betting be good, Smithers. What are you talking about.

AIDE: A lot of your points you're trying to get across aren't true.

O:

EMMANUEL: What's that got to do with it?

O: Look, I don't have time for this airy-fairy stuff from Socrates over here. We need to get this bill passed. Bill is going to tear me a new one if I don't.

EMMANUEL: How about we tell them everyone gets free health insurance with no limitations on coverage, and it's revenue-neutral because we take it out of the budget for the National Endowment for the Arts.

AIDE: Oh, for pete's -

O: Damn that's good! Rahm you are SO the man! Smithers, teleprompt that up...

[Jim Ryan]

**better be good** I did a clarice-o.

[MayBee]

ha!

[Porchlight]

These clowns are much more likely to be wed to an idealogy, hence Barry's rigid leftism as opposed to BillyBob's ease at triangulation.

Very well explaned, Ignatz. Which is more dangerous, do you think? I'm torn. I guess it depends on the general competence level of the person in question. If Barry was a talented executive in addition to all his narcissistic qualities, I think we'd be in a lot more trouble (and we're in plenty as it is).

[Original MikeS]

First the CBO points out that ObamaCare will cost over $1 Trillion.

Then Sarah Palin characterizes health care rationing as "death panels."

Then Joe Wilson can't contain himself as the President lies during a Joint Session of Congress.

Then wonder of all wonders, the press starts reporting the facts about who's lying.

[bgates]

The text she referred to with that rhetorical flourish was changed within a week of her writing about it.

Wasn't the text that was changed just the 5-year consultation where government people read retirees Newsweek's latest cover story, "The Case for Killing Granny"? I think Palin's point, which is still valid, was about the inevitable rationing that's going to result when the (gargantuan, yet) finite federal medical budget has to be spread across the limitless demand for medical care.

[Ignatz]

--Which is more dangerous, do you think?--

A Clinton-type is always less trouble.
Both kinds care, above all else, how they look to others.
But a Clinton is more of a chameleon who will change according to what the public mood is.
An Obama is convinced beyond doubt that he looks mahvelous and anyone who doesn't think so can be compelled to think so with enough exposure to his awesomeness.
And any siginificant group that still doesn't realize his majesty needs to be silenced, not placated as a Clinton might.

[Brittancus]

E-verify could become a very significant immigration enforcement weapon, as it’s shown to work extremely well? Opponents have used the courts in erroneous lawsuits as a delaying factor but failed to impress a Maryland federal judge. This application discloses unauthorized immigrants in the workplace, being continually modified in its operation as spreads into the business world. It now has been unleashed on government contractors and subcontractors to locate illegal foreign labor. We should reward those government public servants who have battled outside special interest groups for American workers. But denying elected office to those who tried to kill or weaken its capabilities. Americans should harass their politicians to enact E-Verify permanently and prepare its operational program offering many uses in the incessant law enforcement fight.

In credit practices it could determine a person’s right to buy any vehicle, if in the United Statesillegally. It could also disrupt radical organizations like ACORN that was instrumental in assisting foreign nationals buying house mortgages, which had a major impact in the real estate collapse. E-Verify should also be installed in financial institutions, to stop fraudulent transactions using bogus SS # or IRS ITIN loan identification numbers. E-Verify could help emergency rooms identify illegal immigrants using forged documents and enable law enforcement to track the employer. That business should be forced to pay for the person’s injury or treatment instead of the proverbial taxpayers. Schools, colleges could check new student admittances for their immigration status. The E-Verification identification system could accomplish numerous other extraction processes, in determining a person’s right to government benefits. In addition, I'm for Health Reform and public option for some family members. Illegal immigrants should be exempt, except for emergency hospital access.

DON'T LET E-VERIFY EXPIRE ON SEPTEMBER 30? CALL YOUR LAWMAKER AT 202-224-3121 AND DEMAND OTHER USES. E-VERIFY COULD HAVE A MAJOR IMPACT, IN THE ILLEGAL INVASION OF OUR COUNTRY. CUT-OFF ALL BENEFITS. INSIST ON RESCINDING THE BIRTHRIGHT LAW, APPLICABLE TO ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT MOTHERS. WE NEED NO NEW AMNESTY. E-VERIFY COULD SAVE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS THAT IS BEING PAID OUT TO ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS IN SANCTUARY CITIES AND STATES. IN ADDITION SAY--NO--TO FOREIGN NATIONALS BEING COUNTED IN THE 2010 CENSUS. GOOGLE-- NUMBERSUSA, JUDICIAL WATCH & CAPSWEB FOR FACTS ON YOUR DOLLARS, STATISTICS, OVERPOPULATION, FAILING INFRASTRUCTURE AND CORRUPTION IN WASHINGTON.

[Steve J.]

This is the real news from the poll:

A LARGE MAJORITY SUPPORT THE PUBLIC OPTION