Something Obama Can Eventually Claim Credit For (Or Blow Smoke About)

In an attempt to get ahead of next decade's spin today, we pick up on this nugget from John Tierney,who was describing the research evaluating why the US life expectancy figures lag those of our industrialized counterparts:

This longevity gap, Dr. Preston says, is primarily due to the relatively high rates of sickness and death among middle-aged Americans, chiefly from heart disease and cancer. Many of those deaths have been attributed to the health care system, an especially convenient target for those who favor a European alternative.

But there are many more differences between Europe and the United States than just the health care system. Americans are more ethnically diverse. They eat different food. They are fatter. Perhaps most important, they used to be exceptionally heavy smokers. For four decades, until the mid-1980s, per-capita cigarette consumption was higher in the United States (particularly among women) than anywhere else in the developed world. Dr. Preston and other researchers have calculated that if deaths due to smoking were excluded, the United States would rise to the top half of the longevity rankings for developed countries.

Thank you for not smoking!  The long term implication is interesting:

“The U.S. has had one spectacular achievement in preventive medicine,” [Dr. Preston] says. “It has had the largest drop in cigarette consumption per adult of any developed country since 1985.” If Americans keep shunning cigarettes, the longevity gap could shrink no matter what happens with the health care system.

How about that?  So over the next decade or two the US health figures ought to rise relative to Europe almost regardless of what ObamaCare does or does not deliver.  But the Smoker in Chief will take credit for it!

Comments

[Jack is Back!]

We, unlike China and Russia and perhaps India, are a nation of statistics. We are an open book as to just about everything that can be measured. I doubt Russia, China and India know as much about their citizens, market sectors, demographics and other worthless information as we do about ourselves. Comparing America to any other place in the world is useless and irrelevant. We are unique unlike any other country.

I am currently reading a book about a murder in Iceland and the victim is a young Thai who immigrated with his mother after she married an Icelander who was doing a rent-a-bride trip to Thailand. The book, "Artic Chill", revels in the angst among Icelanders as to their "immigration" problem and the refusal of immigrants to integrate or merge into Icelandic society. We are talking about a thousand or so immigrants to tiny Iceland. Here in America we are dealing with 10's of millions of "illegal" immigrants and millions more "legal" immigrants. Name one other country in the world with that kind of situation. Yet, overall, we handle it.

Our health care system is fine its the costs and government procedures and controls that need fixing. If we have a longevity problem than why is everyone coming here and few are leaving? So they can die young?

[Thomas Collins]

When you've lost the NY Times . . . .

If the US has such bad health care, why don't all our rich folks go elsewhere when they get serious illnesses?

I love the third to the last paragraph of the Tierney article, which states that:

"When I brought up Dr. Preston’s work to Ellen Nolte and C. Martin McKee, two prominent European critics of the American system, they suggested that he was taking too limited a view of health care. They said the system should take responsibility for preventing disease, not just treating it."

Just what we need, advice from the EuroNannies. Read "the system should take responsibility for preventing disease" as "let's pound the therapy-nanny state even more down the Americans' throats, and we'll all live happily ever after (until the death panel says we must die)."

[clarice]

Sp we stopped smoking--now they saw we're living too long and costing too much. Make up your minds!

Why not just give free ciggies to everyone over 60?

[JBean]

"So over the next decade or two the US health figures ought to rise relative to Europe almost regardless of what ObamaCare does or does not deliver. But the Smoker in Chief will take credit for it!"

Yes, but all those reformed smokers, who once died prematurely, and thus saved the government $$$ on SS and Medicare, will now have to be disposed of otherwise as they age.

[Pagar]

"They said the system should take responsibility for preventing disease, not just treating it.""

Can anyone remember what disease the Europeans prevented?

[Jane]

OT: Someone called into the radio station today to complain that I was "over the top". I'm trying to decide if that is a good or a bad thing.

Also, via a Maybee tweet Scott Harshbarger has been named special prosecutor against ACORN. I'm trying to figure out why. I knew him back when he was Middlesex County DA - he went on to be AG, then ran for Governor and was the head of Common Cause. (DO they have ACORN ties?)

He's been working for a Boston law firm for a while now. LUN

[sylvia]

Well the Europeans are catching up in cancer research. Today there was an article in Reuters Health about Germans using heat to help cure cancers, which is pretty creative.

I read before that the Euros were starting to devote themselves to getting better cancer cure rates and maybe in a few years or a decade they might get there. I think it has a lot to do with their competitive streak. They read the stats too and they don't like losing them.

[Original MikeS]

We have to give Obama credit where credit is due.

Look at the way he persuaded Sweden to enact a stimulus. After taking a good look at Obamanomics Keynesian 'stimulus' plan, the Swede's were convinced to go the opposite, more Reaganomic, route of cutting taxes.

[clarice]

Wasn't Scott also the heavy in the Amirault travesty, Jane?

[sylvia]

And another thing. I keep hearing these stats that there are 30 million people without insurance. I am going to have to do a search on that because I am getting suspicious of that number.

I think of all the people I have known in my life without insurance. I'm thinking about college and the years after college and all the part time workers and the free lancers, temp workers, building contractors. How many of those people have health insuracne? Few. I am thinking there is no way it is only 30 million, or 10%.

I tried to look up before what percent of US people earn minimum wage. I didn't see any good stats on that. They had stats on the Fed min wage, but most people are under state and local min wage, plus most people get a raise after a few months.

I did however see that 60% of US workers are on an hourly wage. Now until I find better figures, I would guess that at least half of the 60% are in lower wage jobs such as store clerks, fast food, security guards, etc. Maybe even 2/3. How many of those people in lower wage hourly paid jobs get health insurance? Not the people that I have met in my life. Probably less than half.

So using an educated guess, I would say at least 25% of people do not have adequate health insurance. That's more like 70 million. Anyway, I would bet 100 bucks that 30 million number is just more health insurance industry propaganda. I need more proof before I believe that number.

[Porchlight]

The US calculates infant mortality differently than most (all?) other nations because we consider all infants born living as live births, regardless of size or gestation. Other countries do not count severely premature births as live births, or else they don't count babies who die within 24 hours - the reporting differs according to country.

So my question is, wouldn't that difference in measurement also affect longevity statistics?

[Jane]

Wasn't Scott also the heavy in the Amirault travesty, Jane?

That was the timing - late '80's altho I can't recall when he started and when they were prosecuted.

A friend of mine once took me to see where the kids were questioned in that case, and gave me the low down on how they got the kids to say what they said. (It was ugly) She worked for Scott, but it was after the case was over.

[sylvia]

"So my question is, wouldn't that difference in measurement also affect longevity statistics? "

Yes. If you do a google search, they provide stats on longetivy by age group. In other words, they only include people who have reached a certain age. That would exclude infant mortality, also all the crime and the drunk driving we have. There are stats on over-65 longevity. If you look at those stats the US does much better. If I get inspired I might post some links later.

[Fresh Air]

Since we're becoming a communist country under Zero, maybe we should take a look at Russian longevity rates for a preview of things to come.

[PeterUK]

If Obama tries to take credit for Clarice giving up smoking,he will end up with a cheroot up the snoot.

[Jane]

Apparently Harshbarger was asked by ACORN not the administration to conduct the probe.

[Thomas Collins]

See LUN for a book not only on the false child abuse accusations and witness coaching in the Amirault case, but also in several other cases. Harshbarger's role is discussed, as are the roles of several other leading lights in Massachusetts and elsewhere.

I would tell you what I think of those who brought these prosecutions and coached the witnesses, and what I think they deserve in the after-life, but I would surely be banned from JOM. I will only mention that there is no place in Dante's Circle of Hell that would provide a fit punishment.

[clarice]

Of course he was. Jane. Glenn Fine the DOJ IG who has a stellar reputation is on his own undertaking an investigation of any DoJ grants to ACORN and everyone of the IGs sould follow suit as Holder twiddles.

[clarice]

**every one of the IGs sHould follow suit as Holder twiddles.******

[clarice]

And in the ,middle of that hysteris,TC, as every two bit prosecutor viewed these cases as a ticket to ride, Dorothy Rabinowitz, virtually alone, pointed out how unfair and ridiculous these prosecutions were,

[Jane]

I'm just trying to figure out why Harshbarger.

[bishop]

I had forgotten about that, I suspect that Common Cause has ties to ACORN, along with any other segment of the Soros network. I
recall Reno, pulled the same scam with the Fuster case, and most of her aides ended up
in Main Justice, with the track record you
might expect

[Thomas Collins]

Clarice, Rabinowitz's book is a perfect example of how a real journalist operates. Not with tingles down his or her legs for Establishment figures, but with investigative integrity and steely determination to ferret out the truth.

[clarice]

Why not pick the most malleable partisan you can--Druge has a very partisan Dem statement from Scott on his page right now,Jane.

This is all corporate damage control --you don't engage a real pecksniff to do that.

[Gregory Koster]

Harshbarger: pay your dough and take your choice:

a) he's going to atone for his railroading of the Amiraults and see no evil to prove he's reformed.

b) he's going to railroad the lowest, least connected witless slob to prove that The One is on the job. The rest of the motley crew will be allowed to set up shop elsewhere, probably as US Attorneys in charge of auditing Geithner/Rangel's returns.

[Jane]

Well I agree, but still why Harshbarger? Hmmmm

[clarice]

TC, she's my hero.
In those days I was juggling work and family and only had time to do what most people do--read the headlines and first graphs of stories without deep analysis of them so until she started writing about those cases in the WSJ it hadn't occurred to me that these were the Salem Witch trials redux--which they were.

Every psychologist, social worker and prosecutoe involved in those cases should have been barred from their professions in a better world.Instead most of the lawyers at least went on to even more prominent positions.

[Captain Hate]

I would tell you what I think of those who brought these prosecutions and coached the witnesses, and what I think they deserve in the after-life, but I would surely be banned from JOM. I will only mention that there is no place in Dante's Circle of Hell that would provide a fit punishment.

Harshbarger should be in jail for what he did to the Amirault family; that he's working as a prosecutor lessens my opinion of Taxachusetts even more, which is nearly impossible. What a thoroughly rotten state to put that vermin in a position of responsibility. There's no doubt in my mind he'll softball ACORN.

[Captain Hate]

I meant "that he's being considered as a special prosecutor"

[George]

Largely due to our emphasis on interstates and the almighty automobile, the U.S. has the highest automobile mortality rate in the world (15.5/100k).

We also have a relatively high homicide rate.

Factor out these two non-natural forms of death (which have nothing to do with our health care) and we have the highest life expectancy on the planet.

Also, the USA treats births different then every other country. We log births as live, then record the cause of death. This allows us to work to reduce the number of early deaths as we have real statistics to work from.

[Jane]

Capn' that's my error. He is not working as a special prosecutor. ACORN asked him to do the investigation.

I have a call into a friend of mine to get her opinion. She's worked with him, altho I don't know if she still has any connections. She's also far left so she may not call me back.

[Captain Hate]

ACORN asked him to do the investigation.

Well that makes sense because of course ACORN would want somebody like him to do an investigation nod-nod-wink-wink Who was their second choice, Ramsey Clark?

[clarice]

OT--Iowahawk on the NEA conference

http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2009/09/nea-leaks-r-us.html

[Tom Maguire]

Can anyone remember what disease the Europeans prevented?

Lockjaw? I know I can't keep a straight face reading these people.

But seriously - Louis Pasteur boiled milk once, and France named an institute after him.

[sylvia]

Can't find the stats on over-65s. Last time it wasn't hard to find for some reason. So they are there somewhere. For over 65's, I think the US was near the top. Which is a good advertisement for Medicare, the, horrors, GOVERNMENT run system.

[sylvia]

Aha! Here's a LUN on life expectancy after 65. US didn't do as well as I remembered, but still better than the other stats.

[sylvia]

Hmmm. Tenth for men, 16th for women, for over 65s. I think the US might have moved up slightly recently in the other stats that I remember seeing.

One stat that impressed me that I saw was that the US was lagging pretty far down in our rate of medical errors. Now that is something you can't explain away with our multi races or our obesity. And I think that stat is a major indication of the quality of care. And maybe we should work on reducing our medical errors rather than concentrating so much on tort reform.

[Patrick R. Sullivan]

Jane, if you recall, back in 2004 when Dan Rather and Mary Mapes produced the 'fake, but accurate' memos, CBS responded by calling for an investigation of itself...and named its own law firm to conduct it. Iow, someone who would have zero incentive to embarrass CBS by producing the cold, unvarnished truth.

Similarly, ACORN is deeply intertwined with Democrat political establishments in big cities. None more so than Boston, which is ground zero for the 'redlining' scam. Boston is where the housing bubble got its start, which led to the disaster we just lived through.

Any Democrat marinated in Boston politics will have zero incentive to expose ACORN for what it really is; a shakedown/extortion racket. If he did, he'd be also exposing all his friends and connections who enabled ACORN along the way. I.e. committing political and professional suicide.

I can't say why Harshbarger, specifically, but it was going to be someone just like him.

[Pofarmer]

Speaking of blowing smoke, I've been hearing clips of Barack Hussein opining on how Global warming is going to destroy the world, and it's just about driven me 'round the bend. Good thing the radio is too far away to hit with a hammer.

[Pofarmer]

http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/bloomberg_poll_092209.png?w=380&h=209

I really got to build a cheat sheet for HTML

Via Wattsupwith that.

the most important things facing the U.S., according to a Bloomberg poll

46 percent the Economy
23 percent Health care
16 percent the budget deficit
10 percent the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan
2 percent Climate change.

Zero really isn't picking his battles very well.

[daddy]

Yea!,

Thanks guys for the education on this Scott Harshbarger guy. Sounds like you're doing some of that "fact based, serious investigative reporting that is absolutely critical to the health of our Democracy" which President Obama was talking about?

Also Jane,

Please provide a link to the latest FWDAJ broadcast for computer illiterates like me when its available, so that I can hear what "an over the top Jane" sounds like. I'm sure I'm not the only JOM'er interested in that. audio:)

[Pofarmer]

Jane,

I can't imagine you being over the top, however, I'm not in Bahstuhn, either.

[Rick Ballard]

"So my question is, wouldn't that difference in measurement also affect longevity statistics?"

Porchlight,

Sure, but Eurostat has thoughtfully compiled datasets which allow for direct comparison at age 65 when used in conjunction with

[teqjack]

Dr. Preston is a PhD, not an MD, and a demographer at that. I will grant he is smarter than I, but I am leery of demographics.

And yes, we count births quite differently, skewing "life expectancy at birth." Indeed, even within our system the figures can be played. I recall my mother fuming when a certain hospital took out adverts touting its infant-survival rate: she knew that any infant born with a severe problem was transferred to the public hospital literally across the street, which took the statistical mortality-rate hit.

[Rick Ballard]

Typhuspad strikes again.

'in conjunction with SSA datasets. The average citizen of the US continues to burden society for another 16.73 years upon reaching the unseemly age of 65 while the average subject of EU tyranny barely makes it to 16 years. Small wonder that commies progressives in the US wish to pursue the European killing machine model with Kill Granny legislation.

[Rick Ballard]

More Typhuspad revenge.

[clarice]

Well, I'm dying to read what you're dying to tell us, Rick. Glad it's typhus pad. You know what a wild imagination I have. I pictures a monster breaking into your new home and biting off your fingers.

[Porchlight]

Thanks, all. teqjack, that reminds me of the statistics homebirth advocates like to quote about percentage of safe, trouble-free home births. Yet the midwives don't even take on the high-risk pregnancies, and the second something goes wrong during labor, they pack the mom off to the ER. So with birth stats (as with everything else), it's the hospitals that take the statistical "hit" because they take all comers - the high-risk, the indigent, the drug-addicted, the women who don't even know they're pregnant, etc.

[matt]

we need to reduce global warming immediately. First step, stop the hot air at the UN.

[Captain Hate]

daddy, to paraphrase Clarice I owe everything I know about Harshbarger to Dorothy Rabinowitz's account in the WSJ. She got me literally (and yes, I know what literally means) shaking with anger as she, alone of all the journalists, covered how the Amireault family was railroaded on some of the most ludicrous charges I've ever heard of. It was because of her articles that some very effective attorneys started banging away on the injustices and eventually got them reversed. The rest of the fourth estate vermin couldn't be bothered.

Btw, Janet Reno did in fact get away with similar activity and it didn't stop Slick from naming her AG although the voters of Florida exercised better judgement. I'm forever blasting PBS but they covered a similar sham case in North Carolina (iirc) and effectively portrayed the prosecutor as a delusional harpy and justice finally prevailed.

[Rick Ballard]

Clarice,

Certainly nothing earthshattering - just that it appears that US seniors have a little more time in front of them than do EU seniors. It would seem that Mother Nature polishs off those who make poor "life style" choices fairly efficiently prior to the age of 65. After 65, European state run health care appears to be more efficient in polishing off those of marginal societal utility. Totally unsurprising.

[boris]

"a monster breaking into your new home and biting off your fingers"

It does remind one of a fatal 911 call ...

[Rocco]

Mr. Harshbarger served as President and CEO of Common Cause in Washington, DC, the national non-profit citizen's lobby and government watchdog group founded by John Gardner, from August, 1999 to November, 2002. His term marked a major reform and renewal for the organization and thrust Common Cause into the public interest mainstream. Common Cause led the coalition of national business and public interest advocacy groups, including grassroots organizations. Mr. Harshbarger helped organized to push passage of the "McCain-Feingold" campaign finance reform bill in 2002, Mr. Harshbarger launched Common Cause's corporate governance project and dramatically expanded the organization's national agenda to include election reform and executive agency monitoring.

[daddy]

Captain Hate,

Speaking of Hate, in a rare spirit of Bipartisanship, would you please join me in hating ">http://www.popecenter.org/clarion_call/article.html?id=2234"> The University of North Carolina At Chapel Hill?

I know it is asking a lot of you, but after ">http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2009_09_20-2009_09_26.shtml#1253572518"> this and this,">http://www.newsobserver.com/news/higher_education/story/1696297.html?story_link=email_msg">this, I hope you can find some blackness in your heart and join me in saying, Go to Hell UNC! Arggggh.

[Rocco]

Harshbarger looked the other way when his good friend Sheriff John McGonigle of Middlesex County was accused of accepting kickbacks from his civil deputies.

[Old Lurker]

"First step, stop the hot air at the UN."

Delete "hot" and we have a deal.

[clarice]

Ras:For the first time, Reps beat the Dems by 4 points on the generic Congressional oll.

[clarice]

**Poll**

[Rick Ballard]

OL,

Try

[Rick Ballard]

Hmmm - Typhuspad requires a sacrifice.

Ol,

Try this one for "most misleading headline". When Govmo gets down to one model built in one plant the headline will undoubtedly refer to "jobs saved".

[gmax]

Can anyone remember what disease the Europeans prevented?

There was an epidemic of providing for your own defense, but that has pretty much been thoroughly eradicated thorough the generous assistance of the United States, we have allowed the Europeans to conquer this epidemic and banish it only to isolated spots in Eastern Europe and occasional in Great Britain.

[Fresh Air]

Rick--

The censorship is starting already.

[Fresh Air]

First step, stop the hot air at the UN.

Properly controlled, sealed and attached to a turbine, Turtle Bay's hot air propagation could be used to power most of Midtown Manhattan.

[Old Lurker]

It's that "open access" policy, guys.

I saw that GM story and hooted, Rick. But even if true it just confirms that all jobs being added are Government jobs...

But Obama did say that "my critics think I'm taking over all the businesses"

[daddy]

Gout? Didn't they end gout?

And Guinness must be good at curing something.

[windansea]

get a load of these numbers, Republican lawmakers take note of last 2 paragraphs

link LUN

Recently the O'Leary Report newsletter teamed up with Zogby International to poll voters in competitive House and Senate 2010 elections on various health care reform issues. The results show that incumbent senators and representatives may want to proceed with extreme caution on health care.

A top-to-bottom, government-run health care system is clearly not popular with 2010 voters. Fifty-eight percent of voters in states with competitive 2010 Senate races oppose the creation of a government-run health care system, or "single-payer" system, where the federal government pays for and provides health care for all Americans. Fifty-five percent of voters in competitive 2010 House districts oppose a "single-payer" system.

Less popular with 2010 voters is a key provision in Sen. Max Baucus', D-Mont., recently unveiled health care bill that would require all Americans to purchase health insurance or face a hefty fine. A clear majority of voters in competitive Senate races (68 percent) oppose such a provision, as do 70 percent of voters in competitive House races.

Also unpopular is the so-called "employer mandate," which would require large and small businesses to provide health insurance to their employees or face a fine. Fifty-nine percent of voters in competitive Senate races oppose the "employer mandate," as do 60 percent of voters in competitive House races.

President Obama's proposal for a new government agency called the "Independent Medicare Advisory Council," which some fear would use its powers to deny payments for certain procedures that it deems unnecessary or futile, does not appear to sit well with crucial 2010 midterm voters.

Fifty-nine percent of voters in close 2010 Senate races oppose the creation of such an agency, while only 31 percent would support it. Sixty percent of voters in close 2010 House races oppose the idea, and just 29 percent support it.

Voters also oppose new taxes on employer-provided health care benefits. A whopping 77 percent of voters in 2010 Senate races oppose this tax, as do 80 percent of voters in 2010 House races.

Also tremendously unpopular is the notion of raising taxes to pay for a new government health insurance program to cover the roughly 26 million Americans who can afford to purchase health insurance (but choose not to purchase it for whatever reason) and the estimated 12 million illegal immigrants residing in the U.S. Seventy-seven percent of midterm Senate election voters oppose new taxes for such a program, and 76 percent of midterm House election voters are in opposition as well.

By now you're probably wondering if there are any ideas in the current health care debate that a majority of 2010 voters support. There are, but they are proposals that, unfortunately, the president and the Democratic leadership in Congress are loathe to promote.

An astounding 80 percent of voters in competitive 2010 Senate elections want Congress to pass tort reform and lower the cost of medical malpractice insurance. Seventy-eight percent of voters in competitive House races also want tort reform.

Also popular with 2010 voters is lifting current regulatory barriers and allowing people to purchase health insurance from providers located outside their home states. Eighty-two percent of voters in competitive Senate races support such a reform, as do 84 percent of voters in competitive House races

[windansea]

LIAR!!!

It is a tax and it will hit those making less than $250K

You knew this was coming. Ranking Republican Chuck Grassley asked a staffer about the penalty for not carrying insurance. "Isn't the penalty here an excise tax and won't it affect people making under $250,000 a year?" he asked Thomas Barthold, the joint tax committee's chief.

"It's structured as a penalty excise tax," Barthold answered. “Yes, we think that some people would be subject to the penalty excise tax when everything shakes out. We would expect that some would have incomes less than $200,000.”

Sensing the political danger of that statement, Baucus suggested that the penalty could be collected through an agency other than the IRS, but said he determined it would be more efficient to have it collected as a tax.

LUN

[clarice]

He's going to lose his domestic agenda and will try to deal with the country he hates thru an ever more disastrous foreign policy.

[sylvia]

"After 65, European state run health care appears to be more efficient in polishing off those of marginal societal utility."

Rick, read the chart on my LUN and my previous posts. In over-65 deaths, deaths which do not include infant mortality and probably most cases of drunk driving and crime, US is tenth in males and 16th in females. Considering the EU is not that many countries, that puts us below most of the EU and Japan, or in the middle at best. Gosh the level of denial is amazing here.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Speaking of Hate, in a rare spirit of Bipartisanship, would you please join me in hating The University of North Carolina At Chapel Hill?

What is it with you guys and places I went to school?

[sylvia]

Anyway, I agree with the article that health care doesn't have that much to do with longevity anyway. I think childhood vacinations and good nutrition has the most to do with it. And smoking and excessive drinking is a factor for many, as well as extreme obesity.

But I don't think medicine has advanced to the point where it can really outdo your genes by that much, except in rare cases. Again, maybe a few years here and there, but that's about it.

[windansea]

Clarice

somebody agrees with you

We are living in a dangerous time. It seems highly unlikely that Barack Obama will get his way in domestic affairs. The Democrats may control Congress, but they now fear a rout in 2010, and they are likely to tread with caution from now on. In foreign affairs, however, presidents have a relatively free hand, and this president has ample time to do damage to a country that, there is reason to suspect, he deeply hates.

LUN

[Jane]

Jane, if you recall, back in 2004 when Dan Rather and Mary Mapes produced the 'fake, but accurate' memos, CBS responded by calling for an investigation of itself...and named its own law firm to conduct it. Iow, someone who would have zero incentive to embarrass CBS by producing the cold, unvarnished truth.

Similarly, ACORN is deeply intertwined with Democrat political establishments in big cities. None more so than Boston, which is ground zero for the 'redlining' scam. Boston is where the housing bubble got its start, which led to the disaster we just lived through.

Any Democrat marinated in Boston politics will have zero incentive to expose ACORN for what it really is; a shakedown/extortion racket. If he did, he'd be also exposing all his friends and connections who enabled ACORN along the way. I.e. committing political and professional suicide.

Patrick,

Back in that time I was pretty well in touch with MA democrat goings on. Harshbarger really has been invisible in MA politics for at least a decade, so I still want to see if I can get the inside scoop. My friend did not return the call, so maybe the loop is not for me to penetrate.

Daddy, I will certainly post a link when FWDAJ is edited and uploaded. I think maybe the outrage was over my suggestion that control of the arts is always done to implement certain types of government.

Clarice et al, if any of you want to communicate with the owner of the station - who has never once listened to anything on WESO his info is that the LUN. That is the place to suggest that I be strung up and censored or in the alternative awarded my own little space on the air. I note that he plays Rachel Madow from 2-4 and clearly she needs a little competition. If you don't reference WESO he simply will not have a clue.

[Rick Ballard]

I'm pretty sure that every sunrise is amazing (and completely unexpected) in Sylviaworld. The Eurostat numbers cited were published this year (as were the SSA numbers). The socialist tyrannies of the EU are 27 in total with a combined population which will exceed 500 million by January 1 vs 308 million in the US.

Hie thee to a decent grammar school, Sylvia, and remain therein until thine misguided ignorance has been remedied to the extent possible, given the blatantly obvious intellectual limitation involved.

[Old Lurker]

Charlie the problem is you attended too many schools.

[Jane]

Oh and if you do write make sure you tell them you hear via live streaming or podcast because otherwise he won't have a clue.

Windansea,

I agree. Frankly I think the Tea party was a gigantic turning point as noted by the very quick ACORN defunding vote before most the the MSM had posted a word. Congress is running scared, and our job is to keep them in that condition.

[Captain Hate]

I hope you can find some blackness in your heart and join me in saying, Go to Hell UNC! Arggggh.

daddy, even though that second link didn't work, having endured the shameless hypocrisy of that nicotine addicted large proboscised Saint Deanie, I will overlook my respect for Roy Williams and my online Tarhole friends and gladly say "Go to Hell, Carolina!!"

ChaCo, strictly a coincidence.

[Original MikeS]

I'm pretty sure that every sunrise is amazing...

As a modern sensitive man, I am able to detect an, almost imperceptible, undertone of sarc in this this rejoinder.

[Ignatz]

--I'm pretty sure that every sunrise is amazing (and completely unexpected) in Sylviaworld.--

LOL.

[sylvia]

"The socialist tyrannies of the EU are 27 in total with a combined population which will exceed 500 million by January 1 vs 308 million in the US."

Yes but it seems to me that the countries that lead us are the most populous larger countries in the EU. Yeah we may beat Greece and Portugal, but we don't beat France or Italy. I'd have to make an Excell chart with ranking and population to calculate the exact placement to say "the US leads most of the EU". I haven't done it yet, but have you? So far it seems the US is in the middle at best. I think you might need to take a statistics course.

[Fresh Air]

He's going to lose his domestic agenda and will try to deal with the country he hates thru an ever more disastrous foreign policy.

That's a pretty good entrant for Post of the Month.

[Fresh Air]

My first reaction upon seeing this scrawny guy in his KORN cardigan sweater, 1964 glasses, scraggly beard and Uncle Joe Stalin cap is to want to beat the living snot out of him. Is that wrong?

[sylvia]

And besides Rick, looking at my LUN, which doesn't take a million years to load like yours did, it's clear that the most of the more prosperous countries in the EU lead us in over 65s. I don't think it's relevant to compare our stats with the likes of say Greece, Portugal, the Czech Republic and Slovenia.

[RichatUF]

But comparing us to Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, and Switzerland does?

[sylvia]

"But comparing us to Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, and Switzerland does?"

Yes because those are rich countries. And we are supposed to rich. Not fair to compare us to the poor ones. Might as well compare us to Zimbabwe and Pakistan.

[Rick Ballard]

Shoddy WHO crap statistics (ten years out of date to boot) really should load like lightning in Sylviaworld. Here in reality Germany remains the largest country in the EU and the US beats both Germany and the UK in the over 65 age grouping. Aside from your unswerving devotion to error, I must admit a certain admirationn for your willingness to continue to provide a degree of entertainment unmatched since the advent of the Bozo the Clown bottom weighted punching bag - you always bounce right back and you're just as smart as ever.

[sylvia]

And by the way, the unemployment rate is getting close to 10%. And we all know unemployed people are likely not to have insurance. So that's the oft mentioned 10% or 30 million people right there. So they are telling me that there's no one else out there without health insurance?

Even if the unemployed carry over their insurance and or are covered by their spouses, that still a big number. No, that 30 million number is not realistic.

Now after googling, apparently the 30 million number came from the US Census Bureau, also there was some study by Kaiser. The Census people should have been reliable perhaps, but I'd like to see their methodology. I'd need more proof.

[Four Score and Five is the design parameter.]

sylvia @ 6:58. The greatest extender of the lifespan of humans over the last century has been the public health measures of treating our water and sewage. Waterborne gastroenteritis is a huge killer of infants, which warps the survival curve something awful. And yes, we've been squaring the survival curve. The wonderful one hoss shay that is the human organism collapses multifactorially around age 85.
==============================

[sylvia]

"US beats both Germany and the UK in the over 65 age grouping."

Okay but we don't beat France and Italy. Alright, you are forcing me to make an excell chart man. We will see for sure. And I am using my chart.

[Captain Hate]

This might be the best thread ever

[Original MikeS]

Is that wrong?
Yes, Fresh Air. It is very very wrong, but I can't tell you how glad I am to find out that I am not alone!

[clarice]

Just did it, Jane.

[clarice]

My first thought , FA, is picture him testifying before a grand jury.

[Stephanie]

Yet the stats for the US that Sylvia wants to compare include the likes of Mississippi and Arkansas... whilst willfully ignoring say Czech and Slovenia for inclusion in the EU stats. Funny that!

[sylvia]

Well Rick today is your lucky day. Using my linked chart, according to my hasty graph, about 45% of the EU beats the US in womens mortality. So technically you are correct. However, 45% is pretty close and it wasn't that readily apparent just by eyeing the stats. And I also couldn't include Japan and Canada and Australia because we restricted the argument to the EU. If you inhclude those countries, and compare the richest nations, I would guess the US is below average for the womens, maybe even the men.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

At Least 6 Federal Laws and Regulations Violated By the NEA Conference Call

[Rick Ballard]

That's very kind of you, Sylvia, although chance actually played no part in the outcome. I'm sure everyone here is delighted by your demonstration of the ability to grasp the bleeding obvious and that comparisons of the makeup of your cerebral cortex with depleted uranium will wane. At least for this evening.

[cindyk]

Aaah! Rick Ballard slaying the ignorant dragon. Life can be good.

[Melinda Romanoff]

sylvia-

You have left out the US litigation tax in every single example you have cited. It only exists here, so add it. Otherwise, you're comparing apples to donkeys.

And, I will ask again, and, yes, this is personal, who provides your health insurance?

I'll wait, and return often, to look for a response.

(In a good mood, "Nitty Gritty" LUN)

[sylvia]

Don't get too excited CindyK. It was only a few percent. And at least I admitted it.