When Is A Strategy Review Not A Strategy Review?

The Times finds an Obama adviser to answer the riddle of why Obama's March strategy review for Afghanistan was not a strategy review:

His decision to send 21,000 more troops to Afghanistan early this year, which will bring the number of American troops there to 68,000 this fall, was made hurriedly within weeks of coming into office to stanch the tactical erosion on the ground and provide security during Afghan elections.

When I was a kid we called it a "do-over".  I had no idea we were being Presidential.

Frank Rich tries as different tack as he pretends that Obama is Kennedy (Oh nooooo!) and will keep us out of the quagmire of Vietnam:

Obama finds himself at that same lonely decision point now. Though he came to the presidency declaring Afghanistan a “war of necessity,” circumstances have since changed. While the Taliban thrives there, Al Qaeda’s ground zero is next-door in nuclear-armed Pakistan. Last month’s blatantly corrupt, and arguably stolen, Afghanistan election ended any pretense that Hamid Karzai is a credible counter to the Taliban or a legitimate partner for America in a counterinsurgency project of enormous risk and cost.

Al Qaeda migrated to Pakistan?  When, January 2009 - who knew?  C'mon, it has been obvious for years that Al Qaeda was not to be found in Afghanistan; I'll bet even Candidate Obama knew it, regardless of his posturing that Afghanistan was the central front in the war on terror.

As to corruption in Afghanistan, well, the Admin spin will have to be that the ghastly Afghan election exceeded even our gloomy expectations.  But those expectations should have been pretty low, if this Biden story can be believed:

KABUL, Afghanistan — A foretaste of what would be in store for President Hamid Karzai after the election of a new American administration came last February, when Joseph R. Biden Jr., then a senator, sat down to a formal dinner at the palace during a visit here.

Between platters of lamb and rice, Mr. Biden and two other American senators questioned Mr. Karzai about corruption in his government, which, by many estimates, is among the worst in the world. Mr. Karzai assured Mr. Biden and the other senators that there was no corruption at all and that, in any case, it was not his fault.

The senators gaped in astonishment. After 45 minutes, Mr. Biden threw down his napkin and stood up.

“This dinner is over,” Mr. Biden announced, according to one of the people in the room at the time. And the three senators walked out, long before the appointed time.

Biden was a skeptic about the value of more troops in March, and was over-ruled; now he is about to be driving the bus.

MAKING THE TOUGH DECISION BY DOING THE POPULAR THING:  Rich goes on:

But the author of “Lessons in Disaster” does not believe that a change in course in Afghanistan would be a disaster for Obama’s young presidency. “His greatest qualities as president,” Goldstein says, “are his quality of mind and his quality of judgment — his dispassionate ability to analyze a situation. If he was able to do that here, he might more than survive a short-term hit from the military and right-wing pundits. He would establish his credibility as a president who will override his advisers when a strategy doesn’t make sense.”

His party will be thrilled to abandon Afghanistan; a majority of the country has serious doubts about whether we can succeed there.  It will scarcely tax Obama's oratorical skills to explain why we have to accept defeat (and blame Bush!).

Comments

[Rude at dinner? He's lucky they didn't behead him.]

Can I go to dinner with Biden and ask him about the Swamp of Swindle that is his administration?
=====================================

[daddy]

When Is A Strategy Review Not A Strategy Review?

When it's a ">http://leisureblogs.chicagotribune.com/the_theater_loop/images/2008/11/24/rockettes.jpg"> Rockette's Review, not a rocket review.

[bishop]

I don't deny that there is some corruption in Afghanistan, but the recipient of funds
from the companies that 'broke the world'
Lehman, Countrywide, Fannie & Freddie, et al; you have to pull that oak out of your eye. And let us not gaze too deeply into the
sterling citadel, that is the one'slaunching
pad. where dead men continue their habitual civic duty on the voter rolls

[Find him by hitting the sock puppet.]

Fred Dardick, in the Canada Free Press, has a nice summation of the Obama record; 'Obama: From Savior to Leftist Windbag in Nine Months'.
===========================

[larry]

Frank Rich tries as different tack as he pretends that Obama is Kennedy (Oh nooooo!) and will keep us out of the quagmire of Vietnam: Kennedy is the one who initiated our involvement in Vietnam. Let's not perpetuate the myth.
Afghanistan? Given Obama's penchant for doing opposite of what he says, we'll be pulling out in the near future. So any discussion of strategery is academic.

[E. Nigma]

Well, let's take off our pants
and do the antler dance!
(Thanks Daddy!)

Remember that one from SNL when it was actually funny?

Corruption is in the eye of the beholder (or Eric Holder); and isn't it amazing what a little reality can do to people's perceptions of a messianic, narcissistic, phony from South Chicago. Or was that Kansas? Or Hawaii? He's all over the place.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

British Press = President Pantywaist

Canadian Press - From Savior to Leftist Windbag in Nine Months

Washington Post - The thesis: pre-Obama America is a nation of many flaws and failures. The antithesis: The world responds with understandable but misguided prejudice. The synthesis: Me. Me, at all costs; me, in spite of all terrors; me, however long and hard the road may be. How great a world we all should see, if only all were more like…me.

[daddy]

“His greatest qualities as president,” Goldstein says, “are his quality of mind and his quality of judgment — his dispassionate ability to analyze a situation."

Wow, those are some pretty good qualities sited by that author and applauded by Frank Rich. Let's see how they worked at Harvard:

"Saying he was unaware of "all the facts" but that police in Cambridge, Massachusetts, "acted stupidly" in their arrest of Henry Louis Gates, Obama whipped up emotions on both sides of an issue that threatens to open old wounds in America."

So if those are his greatest qualities in action, I'd hate to see his worse ones.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

Is this legal, Newsbuster and I would like to know:

Capital Hill Switchboard Illegally Being Used to Push Obamacare?

Well, this certainly can’t be legal… can it? If you call one of the numbers that leads you to the switchboard for Congress, the number you’d call to be put through to your Congressman or Senator’s office, you get a short message selling Obama’s healthcare policies before being transferred to the switchboard operator. This should be the sort of story the Old Media would investigate fully. But will it?

How can this even be legal? After all, this isn’t the Democrat Party hotline we are talking about here. It is the main phone number representing all of Congress, not just Obama and his nationalized healthcare policies. I repeat, this is the phone number for all of Congress, not an activist’s number to sell Democrats and their policies.

While it lasts, try it yourself and you’ll see. The number is 1-800-828-0498.

Here is the transcript of the message you’ll hear:

Thank you for calling your Representative and your Senators.

Please urge them to vote yes on health insurance reform. Because the American people can no longer wait for more choices, lower costs, and coverage we can count on.

After this little message the phone rings once again and is patched through to the switchboard operator.

[AllenS]

They should quit worrying about the corruption in that part of the world, because all the countries are corrupt. That's how they do regular daily business. Biden and others need to get the corruption out of our own country. This thing with Charley Rangel boils my blood.

[daddy]

In case you were wondering about which word, "might", or "may", the media were going to use in this weekends story about ex-Senator John Edwards possibly announcing he's the father of Rielle's baby, the winner was "may". But with a twist.

"Former presidential candidate John Edwards is said to be ready to admit that he fathered a love child. But Hades MAY have a skating rink before his wife, Elizabeth, signs off on such a confession."

See, they pushed the "may" off on Elizabeth, by way of Hell freezing over. Clever. Apparently Elizabeth is getting persnickety and "may" be hunting with all her "might" for a ">http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2009/09/27/2009-09-27_john_edwards_exmistress_rielle_hunter_targeted_by_elizabeth_edwards_in_blog_comm.html"> Divorce Lawyer.

Anyhow, hopefully your lives are far too rich to be noticing such schlock, but for those who do follow such drivel, my guess for next weekend is "could" makes a resurgence at 2 to 1, followed by "might" at 3 to 1 odds, but coming up strong on the backstretch is "must" riding a steed called High Dudgeon, at 5 to 1.

Place your bets!

[Pagar]

"This should be the sort of story the Old Media would investigate fully."
There is no "Old Media" all you have today is the press division of the Democrat/Communist propaganda machine, IMO.

[Jack is Back!]

Analysis? Judgement? Used in the same sentence describing Obama qualities?

He couldn't look and feel an avocado and decide whether it was hard or soft. He has no experience in any life altering decision making - like war and peace. How can anyone with an 8th grade education even make such a statement about Obama without having a tickle run down their leg.

Afghanistan is so different than Vietnam and Iraq, I hope some one reasonably fluent in COIN (like Petraeus) will come out publicly and state the facts, strategy and tactics we are going to employ. Not Obama, for christ's sake, but someone who is believable because it is going the way of healthcare and seriously splitting the countries patience and courage.

[Pops]

Obama's man Blair was telling us that the elections were going to be wrought with fraud, etc. all the way back in February. Nothings changed except we now see how Obama acts when he has to make real decisions, in the real world that affect real people.

It sure was easier when he was professor Obama, like all lefties on the Internet who know everything but have never done anything.

Same way Obama pontificated about how he'd save all kinds of money from bad doctors who yank out tonsils and cut off limbs to make a few grand....typical lefty Internet postings that just don't happen in the real world.

Were starting to see the pattern, bloviate until the hard decisions have to be made and then kick the can down the road and blame someone else for your failure to Command.

[daddy]

Stewards of our Taxdollars:

Just within the last 48 hours we get these stories:

1) An Al Gore backed car firm gets a ">http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125383160812639013.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_MIDDLTopStories"> $529 Million US loan "to help build a hybrid sports car in Finland that will sell for about $89,000."

2) "The Obama administration has notified Congress of the State Department's intention to contribute $400,000 to foundations run by Muammar Qaddafi's two children." NRO">http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=M2FkMDMwNzg4MGNkNGEzNDRjMWQxOTdlOWUwYzA4MzE=">NRO Link.

3) The Administration Will ">http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/54514"> Cut 384 Border Patrol Deployed on U.S-Mexico Border. "Border Patrol Director of Media Relations Lloyd Easterling confirmed this week that his agency is planning for a net decrease of 384 agents on the U.S.-Mexico border in fiscal 2010, which begins on October 1."

It's too bad that we don't have cash available to fund stuff like Border Control Agents.

[pgahtan]

when he was chairman of the senate subcommittee on afghanistan zero meetings. first you run for president. then you find out what is going on.

[Mark O]

It is a myth that JFK was not going to send more kids to Viet Nam. We know for certain that he had already deployed troops there and that he was as hawkish as LBJ. Only in death did he acquire these powers of discernment.

I'm on my way to round up some school kids in the neighborhood to teach them a little ditty sung to the tune of "The Battle Hymn of the Republic:"

Mine eyes have seen the glory of the Great George Walker Bush . . .

No problem, right?

[Extraneus]

I call b.s. on this Karzai dinner vignette. This is the 2nd time TM has posted it, and it's just preposterous.

In between platters of lamb and rice...

Karzai doesn't say "Yes, we suck, but we're doing all we can"...

The senators gape in astonishment!

They wait 45 minutes (presumably until after dessert)...

Then Biden, taking the mantle of leadership, abruptly stands up and throws his napkin down on the table...

"This dinner is over."

And they walk right out of the palace in a huff.

Riiight.

Who told this story to the NYT? I'd like to know because I wouldn't ever believe another word the person said.

[bishop]

Joe Biden, said it on his way back toKatie's
Diner, after returning from Hezbollah free
Lebanon. This was the same argument made against supporting the Northern Alliance as one recalled, obviated by the death of Massoud and 9/11.

[PeterUK]

"“His greatest qualities as president,” Goldstein says, “are his quality of mind and his quality of judgment — his dispassionate ability to analyze a situation."

And analyse and analyse until the subject is superseded by new events.It is the trick he has used all his life.

[PeterUK]

"Then Biden, taking the mantle of leadership, abruptly stands up and throws his napkin down on the table...

"This dinner is over."

And they walk right out of the palace in a huff."

Which, in a country where hospitality is deeply embedded in the culture,is a deadly insult.

[bishop]

I was thinking that, Peter, that would make you a good candidate for bushkazi, that rather unique Afghan pastime. It's like we elected some bad comic as Vice President, oops we did.

[Obama is taking advice on Afghanistan from Powell and Kerry?]

Yup, Peter, people have been beheaded for less.
=============================

[Janet]

Off Topic - I NEED a big red siren on Drudge, and a flaming skull at Ace's telling the world about the Cashill article. My disgust with the media is growing exponentially.

[PeterUK]

Oh definitely.But would playing bushkazi with Biden's head actually interfere with his functions as VP?

[bishop]

Point taken, Peter, he'd be like those disenbodied heads on Futurama.

[rse]

Sara-

As of about 9:45 AM that message is still up but the 800 Number is financed by a lobbying firm who then forwards the call to the Capitol's 212 exchange.

The poor operator sounded terribly upset and said the link would be taken down tomorrow. She asked specifically if I had reached her via an 800 number.

I hope she gets some coffee brought in. She's going to have a long day of explaining. Probably needs some throat lozenges too.

[Captain Hate]

Apparently Elizabeth is getting persnickety and "may" be hunting with all her "might" for a Divorce Lawyer.

Does that seem the act of somebody who is in imminent danger of dying? Her reported health situation has been as big a crock as everything Silky used to gull juries and gain his income and reputation. The two of them should be forced to cohabitate forever in the house of cards they so duplicitly constructed and is falling down around them.

[rse]

"Insufficient tuned-in-ness"

If my kids ever discover this NYT explanation for totally missing the mark, I'm in big trouble.

Maybe we could expand it though and make it the explanation for current Congressional policies.

[PeterUK]

To beat the donkey some more. Joe Biden,selected for his wealth of experience in foreign affairs,has insulted the President of Afghanistan. The same president for whose administration American troops are fighting and dying for?

[Pagar]

"- I NEED a big red siren on Drudge, and a flaming skull at Ace's telling the world about the Cashill article."

Janet, I've been trying to do the same thing with the 12 Democrats on the healthcare committee who voted down putting the healthcare bill on line because it was too difficult for them to do. I've posted it on five different blogs and it gets a few responses. Overall, my guess is less than 100 people have expressed any amazement that the nation is depending on 12 senators to write a bill destroying a large segment of the economy when they can't even put the words that they have written on the internet because it is too difficult.

LUN

[Janet]

Pagar - well Powerline had a posting on it. LUN

I took notes on that point(not posting online) and the defeat of an Orin Hatch amendment (also at Powerline in a post called Case Closed 9-26-09).

These will be my points in my next letters to my Senators. My almost daily exercise. I need stimulus money to help pay for my stamps!

[Ignatz]

--Joe Biden, said it on his way back to Katie's Diner, after returning from Hezbollah free
Lebanon.--

Don't forget bishop, he only got to Lebanon by fighting his way through the Hindu Kush after his helicopter was shot down on the way out of Afghanistan.

[Jack is Back!]

You mean there are actually people out there who believe what Joe Biden says or his exploits in faraway lands?

If so, the collective IQ of America has shrunk another 10 percentile.

[Please, someone, reprint her silliness.]

You want a laugh, google 'bushkazi' and follow the link to Maureen Dowd's column from October of '01 just as Bush started in on the Taliban.
====================================

[bishop]

That was what reminded me, kim,

[Maybe I should go do a little housework.]

Oh, I'm on a roll today, thinking like the bishop, and anticipating Scott Mandia's comment at Watt's Up.
===================================

[Semanticleo]

"I don't deny that there is some corruption in Afghanistan"

I salute even the most trivial form of honesty in conservatives.

The seeming indecisiveness of Obama is the
apparent critique of his policy in Afghanistan. Too bad your determination to succeed there is a dollar short and a day late. Perhaps you all who feel the urgent need to send troops today can tell us how
those troops are going to be housed and protected from the unfriendlies before any substantial infrastructure can support their basic needs.

Or mayhaps you can tell me how we can commit to a country with a sham government elected fraudulently. Bush's buddy, Karzai seems more interested in enriching the legions of family members, than providing a stable government which can sustain itself.

Maybe if we had some of the cash we dropped in that sinkhole, Iraq, we could bribe Karzai and his family to forsake the local nickles and dimes, and focus on the people he serves. Alas, little is left after the coffers have been raided by the scions of the previous administration.

[Jane]

Ahhhh so it's Bush's fault right cleo? Bush knew the smart thing was to fight al Qaeda in Iraq even if Obama didn't. Obama was absolutely confident that he wanted to fight them in Afghanistan. And now he is trying very hard to declare defeat. Are you saying he was unaware that Karzhai was corrupt when he made that declaration? I guess it is Bush's fault for not bestoying on Obama any semblence of the obvious.

[PD]

Cleo, if it's so easy to decide that it's nothing but a worthless quagmire, why is it taking Obama so long to make up his mind to pull out?

One part of the critique of his policy is that he is simply unable to make up his mind and MAKE A DECISION.

[Semanticleo]

"Ahhhh so it's Bush's fault"

Stating the obvious is the first step to recovery for both the addict and the enabler.

[PD]

I presume a large part of his dalliance on deciding is that he doesn't know what he wants to achieve. On Letterman the other night, he stated that he doesn't know what his goals in Afghanistan are.

But this many months into his administration, isn't this something he should have figured out by now, particularly with all the mouthing off he did during the campaign about the strategic importance of the war there?

[Semanticleo]

"MAKE A DECISION."

If Karzai makes the choice between his own interests and the interests of his country, by re-staging the election, it will be easier to know how deep the quagmire runs.

[Semanticleo]

Of course, I'm assuming you don't want Obama to fail in Afghanistan.

[PeterUK]

"If so, the collective IQ of America has shrunk another 10 percentile."

Yes, Semantic Leo is back.

[PeterUK]

"Or mayhaps you can tell me how we can commit to a country with a sham government elected fraudulently. Bush's buddy, Karzai seems more interested in enriching the legions of family members, than providing a stable government which can sustain itself."

Works for the Democrats!

[PD]

Stating the obvious is the first step to recovery for both the addict and the enabler.

What is obvious is how weak-willed Obama is. How is that Bush's fault, pray tell?

[bishop]

No, we want our soldiers, including my brother to succeed, For Obama to succeed
would mean retreat, it's not nearly the
same thing.

[boris]

Either that or Reagan's according to trolls from Assclownistan.

[Original MikeS]

A reduced U.S. presence, in the face of a Taliban resurgence, would rightly be seen as a victory for the Taliban, al Qaeda, Wahabism, and violent jihad. There could not be a greater boon to terrorist recruitment without Obama donning an explosive vest himself.

The whole world will judge Obama's commitment to fighting terrorism by his approach to Afghanistan. That world opinion may be more important than the effectiveness or practicality of the U.S. strategy.

The McChrystal plan is essentially a plan to expand and improve the Afghan Army and Afghan National Police, over the course of 18 to 24 months, to over 400 thousand people. Over 300 thousand of which will COIN trained personnel with experience gained from operating with U.S. forces. Yes it includes COIN operations for our troops. It will result in more U.S. casualties in Afghanistan than leaving.

[Rob Crawford]

Cleo's like a weather vane -- a short while ago, he'd have been screaming how important Afghanistan is, and how we need to abandon Iraq for Afghanistan. Now that his intellectual masters (admittedly, that's a class that includes kittens, slime molds, and Ted Kennedy's corpse) say Afghanistan should be abandoned, that's his Pravda.

Ignore the little POS. It's all the wannabe slaver deserves, and it pisses him off like nothing else.

[PeterUK]

"(admittedly, that's a class that includes kittens, slime molds, and Ted Kennedy's corpse)"

HOW could you include kittens?

[OK, that's enough housework.]

Right, Pete, I've got a pretty clever kitten; more decisive than Obama, too.

MikeS has it in his 1:32 post. This is Horation at the Bridge. And we elected Obama?
===================================

[Still a Senator Senior to Kerry.]

By the way, you got a twofer there, Rob; slime molds and the corpse of that Senator.
=============================

[A Horroration Show.]

Horatio or Oration. As usual, I like the slip, Horation.
=============================

[Jane]

"bestoying" uh bestowing -

Obama is stupid Cleo and you can no longer put a happy face on that.

[Hubba Bubba.]

Obama be bestroying us.
===============

[Semanticleo]

"a short while ago, he'd have been screaming how important Afghanistan is,"

I'm not aware of ever having stopped screaming. I started in 2002, how about you?

But don't make the mistake of comparing Iraq to Afghanistan. as you would apples to oranges.

I still think you want America to fail, just like dem moonshiners who hanged the census taker, like he was some kind of
'renovoo-er' Left him hangin' like a tea-bag.

[Semanticleo]

What did those hill-folk call the Feds?

reven-oo-er? Anyway, you understand the connection.

[Semanticleo]

It's a shame you folks have no conscience with regard to the slavish support you gave Bush resulting in the domestic and foreign
clusterfuck he left us with. Obama is just
taking out the trash, just not fast enough for y'all.

[Extraneus]

My bet is that it was Biden himself who made that story up and regaled the Times with it. Nobody else could have done it.

[PeterUK]

You read the police report on that Septic? Or is it just more moonbat moonshine?

[DrJ]

Obama be bestroying us.

"Bestoying?" Is that what deviants do with animals?

[The hypocrisy of the Left about Afghanistan knows few limits. What about all those feminists up in arms? Standing on the sidelines, arms crossed and eyes averted like with Clinton?.]

Heh, you should read that Maureen Dowd column, Leo, from October 2001. Do you agree or disagree with her. Quiz in the AM. Essay type.
=======================

[Perhaps really retarded, though.]

Leo, that hanging is as likely a false flag, or a personal vendetta than anything else.
=================================

[Semanticleo]

"personal vendetta"

Short for Republican obstruction, kinda like
Pan-Schadenfreude

[JM Hanes]

Sematic:

"Stating the obvious is the first step to recovery for both the addict and the enabler."

Asking conservatives, whom you consider congenitally dishonest, to explain COIN strategy to you, when the McChrystal report has gone viral on the net, does suggest a certain diminished capacity. Ditto that, if you actually believe you're deconstructing anything more than conversation here -- an iffy proposition, to be sure.

I doubt the admission that we're enabling you would take either you or us very far down the road to recovery.

[Only an ignoramus or a disingenuotamus wouldn't know that.]

Most hangings are pretty personal events. Very few are political statements. Some are.
=================================

[boris]

Mox nix Kim. Does not matter to cleo who did it or why. It's the symbolism of the teabag hanging from a string that's important.

[Semanticleo]

"would take either you or us very far down the road to recovery."

No, but it might be a nice dose of iodine for your infectious negativity, as well as your failure to sound the Afghanistan bugle pre-Obama.

[Semanticleo]

"It's the symbolism of the teabag hanging from a string that's important."

At least you're not pretending to misunderstand the symbolism.

[One of my first contributions was 'Nomad's Land'. And overuse of the double negative.]

Too bad you're not pretending you're not prostituting your wit, Leo. And we've all been pretty involved about Afghanistan for a long time as you'd know if you'd your wits about you. Or some integrity.
================================

[Just imagine being a guest of the Obamas.]

By the way, the nomadic bit is part of the reverence for hospitality. It's culturally a matter of physical survival.
===============================

[Spent my money on Iraq souvenirs]

"we've all been pretty involved about Afghanistan for a long time"

Yes we have, but your opinions (Iraq vs Afghanistan) and public protestations about the shift of resources seem as rare as your own displays of integrity.

[boris]

"you're not pretending to misunderstand the symbolism"

So you should change your handle to "Symbolicleo", since you suck even worse at sematics. That way you could be as imaginary as your offspring.

[Integrity, right.]

Mine's back from Balad, buddy, how's yours.
===========================

[PeterUK]

"At least you're not pretending to misunderstand the symbolism."

But you are! Conflating disparate events seems to be the principle leftist mental process.

[Patriotism is one of the many refuges of a scoundrel.]

And look, too, Pal; we've all been agonizing desperately about the two front war; your side has used both fronts to attack Bush.
=====================================

[PeterUK]

" (Iraq vs Afghanistan) and public protestations about the shift of resources seem as rare "

Yes the rent a mob anti-war brigade are amazingly mute on this subject.
Tell us,why the war in Afghanistan is more important?

[Patriot's Pantomime]

"we've all been agonizing desperately about the two front war;"

Whom do you mean by, 'all', and if you mean conservatives (aka libertarians0 when did the agony begin, 9/09?

[Patriotism is one of the many refuges of a scoundrel.]

Yes, Peter, it's a remarkable and pervasive disconnect; experts at sophistry but deficient in logic, and honest rhetoric. Truly a wonder. The pervasiveness, pervasion?, obviously points to a systematic pathology, but what the virus is, I'm not sure. Is it primarily intellectual, or linguistic or something else? I wonder.
=======================================

[Boooooring.]

Pitiful, Leo, take 'all' by whatever meaning you like. And your sophistry always degenerates to babble.
==================================

[Co-Dependence Advocate]

"I wonder."

I hope you leave your body to science so they can study you, 'cold'.

The world is full of wonder.

[Kim's Obamic Kerfluffle]

"take 'all' by whatever meaning you like."

"it's a remarkable and pervasive disconnect; experts at sophistry but deficient in logic, and honest rhetoric."

Please reconcile........

This quiz is available,,,,now.

[Rob Crawford]

HOW could you include kittens?

They're not particularly wise nor knowledgeable. Semen-boy bases his thoughts-of-the-moment more on what he perceives to be the aesthetics than the facts.

[Chilly, too.]

They'll find a point in there when they peel it from your cold dead fingers, Leo.
====================================

[Kim's Obamic Kerfluffle]

"what he perceives to be the aesthetics than the facts."

Without aesthetics, facts are of little value, unless you're an engineer.

[You can't kerfluffle yourself to any consonant position on anything. Just like Obama.]

Oh, easy Leo. All is everyone, which would include any subset you choose to pick. I'm objecting to your only using your concern about both fronts to bash Bush. And Obama is just as pitiful. Yep, he was concerned.
===============================

[You coulda been a contenduh.]

The aesthetics are just a pretty sick joke, too, Leo. Truly, when I think about you, I think of what a terrible thing it is to waste a mind like yours.
============================

[Kim's Obamic Kerfluffle]

"They'll find a point in there when they peel it from your cold dead fingers, Leo."

Enigmatic.......but, as usual, indecipherable.

[PeterUK]

Rob,
Now see what you have done? Triggered Septic's Mechanophobia. Good job you didn't mention accountants.

[Kim's Obamic Kerfluffle]

"I'm objecting to your only using your concern about both fronts to bash Bush."

Bush is irrelevant. I'm bashing the Regressives who slavishly supported Bush, lost nearly every power base because of it, and now wish to undermine attempts to clean up their own messes.

[Indecipherable, huh? So you admit your deficiency in logic and rhetoric.]

Look at my stuff like an engineer would, Leo.
==========================

[Kerry is advising him for God's Sake.]

Bush is irrelevant? How quickly you forget.

What's relevant is the perverse purpose to which the Democrats put those two fronts in their assault on Bush and our security. And what's the chance of Obama making us more secure? Talk about messes to clean up.
=============================

[Kim's Obamic Kerfluffle]

That is a key admission, Kim. Logic and rhetoric is just a machination when heart and soul run on empty.

[As through a glass, smokily.]

Oops, I meant look at it like an accountant with the green eye shades off, Leo.
======================================

[Stunning admission, indeed. Silver plated.]

I'm quite content with my heart and soul, Leo. Look to your own.
=====================================

[Kim's Obamic Kerfluffle]

"I meant look at it like an accountant with the green eye shades off, Leo."

There's a distinction without a difference.

Cold calculation, in common, they have.

[Kim's Obamic Kerfluffle]

"I'm quite content with my heart and soul"

And I'm certain you're at peace with the heart condition of your peers. Reassuring, that is.

[Jane]

I'm not aware of ever having stopped screaming. I started in 2002, how about you?

But don't make the mistake of comparing Iraq to Afghanistan. as you would apples to oranges.

That's precisely the point CLeo. Iraq is not Afghanistan.

Now a smart person would say - "hey let's get al Qaeda to come to a place where we can actually deal with the terrain, and get rid of them there". As opposed to a messiah and his followers who would say: "no no no lets go to a place where the terrain is so bad that we assure defeat."

So I guess it is safe to assume that is your point. After all America is such a bad bad country that we deserve this, right Cleo?