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October 27, 2009

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bunky

big deal

Major Wood

It seems like many of the same things were said about Iraq before "the Surge". When the Talidan see a weak CIC like Obama they become stronger. Either Obama goes all in to win or he should pull them out...and carpet bomb later if needed.

spongeworthy

I'm not so sure. The history of that region just isn't like any other place we've tried to clean up.

I'm not sure you need more than a year, if that, to throw up your hands and leave the region to their backward ways.

Jack is Back!

In case you are interested in what to do militarily in Afghanistan with an innovative approach (is this what the Once is reading) then go to LUN. It will take a little time but you will soon see that the Once needs to start listening to his Generals and not the mad uncle in the attic.

narciso

I assume we were in the Korengal, because of it's proximity to Pakistan, does Mr. Hoh
except the Durand line, as a real dividing line. They certainly don't. How did the Taliban and AQ gain a foothold, in an era where the opposite policy applied. He seems
to be resigning before policy is being implemented unlike Watts, Lake, et al. So what does he say about the problem of Pakistan?

Frau Schnitzel

If Sen. Conehead Kerry (D-South of France) is now in charge of Afghanistan policy and to use the title of John Derbyshire's new book, "We are Doomed!"

BadIdeaGuy

If Mr. Hoh believes that a corrupt central government is a bad idea, maybe we should elect him to the US Congress.

Cecil Turner

Joyner's view of things seemed spot-on to me. This is a junior officer (not a "senior official") who doesn't see any value in continuing. I share his dissatisfaction with our "strategy" (or non-strategy?), as does McChrystal. But his unilateral decision the war isn't worth fighting is hardly compelling. We certainly have an interest in keeping Al Qaeda from reestablishing training bases and C2 nodes in AF (though whether there's a better way is always open to question).

It's also worth noting that there's a price to be paid for vigorous backflipping on foreign policy, usually in blood. One of Osama's guiding principles was the view of the US as ineffectual (based on the 1993 retreat from Somalia). How this particular retreat would play out is hard to pin down, but odds are it wouldn't be any more pleasant.

On the other hand, if he is right than giving him less than he needs makes no sense either.

No kidding. This is an "either-or," not a "how much?" or somewhere-in-between decision. Picking the wrong one and pursuing it efficiently would be a whole lot better than publicly demonstrating the inability to choose.

clarice

I believe Senator Conehead is Northern French. South of France is a rather different ball of wax.

bad

What do you expect from a Hoh?

narciso

Help me out here, he seems to have missed the Anbar awakening, and projects the pre
surge experience as the template. So in short he doesn't like what's happening now,
but doesn't seem to eager to pursue a strategy that might work

bunky

I'm sorry but in the schmeme of things (and the stakes), its like a private quitting. No personal insult meant to the man's service. This will be used to make the faux deliberations going on now look substantive.

LTC John

I think that trying to point to a one time CPT and ignoring the 4 star General might not be the heavyweight help the Biden camp is looking for.

But I'm just some dumb O-5, so I wouldn't believe anything I say either
/paradox

bad

Speaking of Biden, his approval ratings are now lower than Cheney's.

Paul

Sounds like Hoh just got burned out on military matters or was frustrated, that he now just wants to throw in the towel and let Afghanistan de-evolve to what it was before. Less than a year on a job does not qualify for him to know anything on the region let alone think he knows best policy for the region.

Don Imus

Is he nappy headed?

clarice

How can you say that,Paul. Let's say he'd been there for the same amount of time and thought McChrystal was right. He'd be getting the same media attention. Wouldn't he?

andycanuck

How does Mr Hoh stack up against Major Gant?
http://ace.mu.nu/archives/294084.php

osıɔɹɐu

He comes across as very trite, and cliche by
comparison, Major Gant acknowledges all the obstacles, frankly as few others. Yet he offers hope, where Hoh just gives up.

Stevevvs

18 Comments, not one reference to Islam, the Qur'an, the Hadith's, or the Sira's. Eight Years, trillions of dollars, and no one here thought it important to study Islam. Much like the former, and current administrations.

IF we ever leave Iraq or Afghanistan, everything will crumble, and these Islamic States, with their U.S. approved Islamic Law based Constitutions, will show the Infidels how foolish we have been.

I guess no one here cracks a book, or reads any Andrew C. McCarthy, Diana West, or Robert Spencer, just to mane a few. Perhaps it's time...

Soylent Red

Corrupt central government? OK.

Then how about we move toward more of a confederation model with accountable local government supported by embedded US troops? That is, I believe, what GEN McChrystal is proposing.

Soylent Red

I guess no one here cracks a book,

You mean like the Siras?

FYI, it's Suras.

bgates

18 Comments, not one reference to Islam

Wait...are there Islamians in Afghanistan?

Soylent Red

As we learned last night bgates, "Islamian" is a race.

You bigot.

osıɔɹɐu

The tribal question predates Islam by about a millenium, when they were called the Pathans, and they fought Alexander,and later
Crassus's legions in the last gasps of the Roman REpublic

scott

I sat in on several outstanding briefings today from SFC's that just returned from what they call "Again-I-Stan".

Basically they call the enemy in those remote valleys "accidental guerillas". Tribes of 1-2000 people who will never leave that valley. The Taliban pays them $50 to plant an IED. They don't know anything of geopolitics or jihad.

They showed some video of firefights that drives home how isolated they are in those Command Outpost's (COP's). 6 soldiers being engaged daily. Only resupply is by air. The cook hanging rounds. In the bottom of a cereal bowl. Exposed.

All agree, It's a very different fight from Iraq. The videos ,to me, had an errie Vietnam feeling to them.

At one point, A Brit I was seated next to turned to me and said "8 more Americans killed this morning mate".

Our guys will kick anybody's ass but obama better figure out what the f**k
they're doing there and back them up.. like yesterday!

Ignatz

--They showed some video of firefights that drives home how isolated they are in those Command Outpost's (COP's). 6 soldiers being engaged daily. Only resupply is by air. The cook hanging rounds. In the bottom of a cereal bowl. Exposed.--

A thousand little Dien Bien Phus.

Cecil Turner

18 Comments, not one reference to Islam, the Qur'an, the Hadith's, or the Sira's.

Nor one to Sun Tzu or Clausewitz, which might be more apropos. When you get all clued in and sensitive after all that research, maybe you can enlighten us on the proper grand strategy in the GWOT (oops, I mean "overseas contingency operations"). Or you can just sit there and be all superior, and we'll just ignore you some more.

AFAICT, the options on the table are a full-blown COIN approach per McChrystal, or a whack-a-terrorist approach per Biden. Not sure either couldn't be made to work (as well as such things ever do). If we ever decide what to do. Until then . . .

Marc

another county heard from A different officer's opinion, equally respectable, and one with a different response to the question Capt. Hoh was commissioned to answer about tribal fighting.

Marc

oops link busted. meant to post this link:

http://blog.stevenpressfield.com/wp-content/themes/stevenpressfield/one_tribe_at_a_time.pdf

Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet

It appears that the fundamental mistake we made in RVN is again a real possibility. Simultaneous dual strategies with diametrically opposed objectives.

Peter

One major difference between this fight and my war in southeast Asia is that we put most (not all) of our firebases on top of the hills.

In this fight the scheme seems to be little bitty bases, most down in the valleys. Seems strange to me, but then I only made (acting) SGT and got out as a Lance Corporal.

There is something else that is awfully strange to me. We keep getting into fights wars where we win every fight but lose the war. Let's see, we won every fight in Viet Nam, the commies run the place. We won every fight in Korea. Bother Kim is still in power. We wone every fight in Panama, the Chicoms now run the big base that controls access to the Canal.

The Jury is still out on Iraq but I won't place any bets on their future once Iran gets nukes. How do we always win the fights but lose the war?

Ignatz

--How do we always win the fights but lose the war?--

Because our miitary is very competent; our politicians somewhat less so, to be as charitable as possible.

Ishiatsi

How did you manage to pick the title of this blog post when you knew you were describing a temp worker who had been in Astan for 4 months and is not an expert on anything?

Ishiatsi

"One major difference between this fight and my war in southeast Asia is that we put most (not all) of our firebases on top of the hills.
In this fight the scheme seems to be little bitty bases, most down in the valleys. Seems strange to me"

Take a look at the WaPo interactive on the battle at Wanat. The "top of the hill" is a matter of perspective. It was on the top, relative to the village. Except there's a hill above that, and one above that, and the peak is something visible from space.

Either way, if the Taliban wins by influencing the population, the population is where the fight is.

There are valleys with a dozen marines in an outpost, 100s of taliban and farkall else for miles. They are attacked daily. What you win there if you do is anyone's guess.

Cecil Turner

How did you manage to pick the title of this blog post . . .

Seems to me that criticism would be better aimed at either the WaPo, who incorrectly called this guy an FSO and used the less-than-helpful "US official" to imply he was a policy guy:

U.S. official resigns over Afghan war
Foreign Service officer and former Marine captain says he no longer knows why his nation is fighting
Or perhaps at ABC news, who both can't figure out what he is or why he resigned:
Matthew Hoh, a Senior Civilian Official in Afghanistan, Resigns Over U.S. Strategy
By contrast, TM's "troubling" (yeah, he ain't no shrinking violet, and after volunteering, essentially becomes a conscientious objector . . . that's troubling) seems pretty unremarkable.

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