Meanwhile, Back In Honduras...

Per the NY Times, a resolution to the Honduras crisis has been announced:

MEXICO CITY — A lingering political crisis in Honduras seemed to be nearing an end on Friday after the de facto government agreed to a deal, pending legislative approval, that would allow Manuel Zelaya, the deposed president, to return to office.

The government of Roberto Micheletti, which had refused to let Mr. Zelaya return, signed an agreement with Mr. Zelaya’s negotiators late Thursday that would pave the way for the Honduran Congress to restore the ousted president and allow him to serve out the remaining three months of his term. If Congress agrees, control of the army would shift to the electoral court, and the presidential election set for Nov. 29 would be recognized by both sides.

On Friday, Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton called the deal “an historic agreement.”

The Times continues its proud journalistic tradition of "All The News That Fits Our Narrative" with their treatment of the legal controversy surrounding the ouster of Zelaya in late June:

Some Honduran political and business leaders have argued that the military coup that ousted Mr. Zelaya on June 28 was a legal response to his attempts to rewrite the Constitution and seek re-election.

Some Honduran leaders that the ouster of Zelaya was legal?  So has the Law Library of Congress, in a report which embarrassed Team Obama and the State Department by finding the ouster of Zelaya to have been legal (his subsequent exile was not.).

The Times actually risked furrowing the brows of their readership with this discordant note on one occasion, back in late September:

The competing accusations continue when the two sides discuss what led to the crisis. According to a recent analysis of the legal issues of the case prepared by the Law Library of Congress in Washington, both Mr. Zelaya and those who ousted him appear to have broken the law.

In Mr. Zelaya’s case, he flouted court rulings ordering him not to conduct a survey on whether to convene a citizens assembly to change the Constitution. Eventually, the chief prosecutor filed a complaint with the Supreme Court accusing Mr. Zelaya of treason and abuse of authority, among other charges. That led to an arrest warrant that was carried out on June 28.

But Mr. Zelaya was not formally arrested when soldiers raided his home. Instead, the army detained him, took him to the airport and put him on a plane to Costa Rica, even though the Honduran Constitution says no citizen may be handed over to foreign authorities.

The military has said it decided to remove Mr. Zelaya from the country to reduce the likelihood that his detention would cause unrest. After initially defending the decision, members of the de facto government have come to see it as a mistake.

Norma C. Gutierrez, an international law specialist who prepared a legal analysis for American lawmakers last month, criticized both sides. Her bottom line: the case against Mr. Zelaya was rooted in constitutional and statutory law. His removal from the country was not.

The Law Library of Congress analysis has been criticized and supported.  John Kerry asked yesterday that the report be withdrawn, but the LLOC stands by their report.

Well.  These legal subtleties have become too much for the Times, which has evidently decided not to mention them at all.  Here is their coverage of the Washington politics from Oct 26:

The issue has also created political headaches for President Obama in Congress, where a few Republicans have held up key State Department appointments as a way of pressuring the administration to reverse its condemnation of the coup. The Republican group, led by Senator Jim DeMint of South Carolina, has said Mr. Zelaya’s opponents had no choice but to oust him because he had tried to illegally extend his time in power.

Meanwhile, Senator John Kerry, chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, has called on the administration to stand firm in condemning the coup. Frederick Jones, a spokesman for Mr. Kerry, said Monday, “It should be perfectly clear to Mr. Micheletti that the coup, and his martial provisions to shut down media outlets, harass and arrest politicians, and influence the elections are unacceptable, and will not succeed.”

Those daffy Republicans!  Of course, it is not just a "Republican group" that says Zelaya was acting illegally, but let's not allow reality to intrude on the reality-based community. 

Comments

[not_bubarooni]

“an historic agreement.”

not exactly how i would describe the return of a wannabe chavez.

just look what ortega did recently in subverting nicarauga's constitution.

i shall be pleasantly surprised if zelaya does not have something up his sleeve.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

I won't be surprised if Zelaya dies by accidentally shooting himself three times at the base of the skull.

Nor, frankly, terribly distressed.

[clarice]

The lesson I draw from Zelaya and Chavez is this--faint heart ne'er saved a democracy. When you've bounced the thugs from office put a stake in them. Fast. Otherwise they return with worse in store.

[Thomas Collins]

Barack Hussein Obama is the ultimate practitioner of Yankee Imperialism. He butts into the internal affairs of a Central American country in a matter in no way affecting the national security of the US. Reagan invaded Grenada as part of the Cold War. Obama has no such excuse for his hegemonic strong arming of Honduras.

[unɹ puɐ ʇıɥ]

TC:
Barack Hussein Obama is the ultimate practitioner of Yankee Imperialism.

Are you insulting Steinbrenner or Obama here?

[glenda]

TC..I heard about and saw the pictures of the damage in Shreveport area---I hope your son remains safe and sound.

[Captain Hate]

From a prior thread: Senator John Kerry is ordering the Law Library Of Congress to retract its finding that Honduras acted lawfully in removing Zelaya for his crimes against their Constitution.

Isn't this the type of thing that numerous Congressional hearings were held to find out if the Bush Administration was doing regarding torture and foreign intel? And the horse-faced cabana boy is doing it in the open? Thanks a lot Taxachusetts; can they be expelled from the Union for sending such toxic garbage to Washington?

[Appalled]

h&r:

Yeah, I think Cashman is better at dollar diplomacy than Obama...

(Go Phillies!)

[clarice]

A little sunshine:"Sen. Joe Lieberman, I-Conn., tells ABC News he will campaign for some Republican candidates during the 2010 midterm elections and may not seek the Democratic Senate nomination when he runs for re-election in 2012."

[sylvia]

Well interesting to hear Kerry is in on this as well. I thought it was just Obama who was the commie here, with some personal secret liking of Chavez. Seems to have also spread throughout the Dems. They are letting their inner commie let loose and run wild now with Obama in charge.

I got hand it to the Hondurans. They recognize what most of the world is too chicken to acknowledge, that much of the voting in this world is becoming a joke. They knew that taking a "vote" for the guy to stay in power would have had only one outcome. And the Dems seem to not acknowledge this new reality.

And if someone were in touch with reality here, they would start looking into the voting in this country as well. With Venezuela running half the voting machines in most of the states, it's pretty much a joke here as well. Oh sorry, my mistake, Venezuela "sold" their voting operations to their subsidiary in the US. Which means it's all run the same, and by the same people, they just have a corporate address in the US now to mail letters to. Yes that makes it above suspicion now.

I know people think it could never happen here, but with the tech today, it so easily could. I was right about donation fraud. I was right about the real estate bust. I think one day I will be right about the voting fraud here.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

They knew that taking a "vote" for the guy to stay in power would have had only one outcome. And the Dems seem to not acknowledge this new reality.

Nah, they acknowledge it well enough. See, eg, new Jersey.

[Jim Ryan]

the military coup that ousted Mr. Zelaya

That's opinion pretending to be journalism.

If Bush had announced elections to re-elect him last January and he'd been kicked out, the NYT would not have called the out-kicking a "military coup."

[sylvia]

" an act that the Obama administration called a “coup” and demanded reversed for its illegality"

That's the funny thing about things being illegal. There actually has to be a "law" against it, for it to be illegal. And too bad for them, Honduras doesn't have a law against it, so it's not illegal.

The left keeps saying it is "illegal" for lots of things, like to invade Iraq or Afghanstan, as I just heard Michael Moore say again on Larry King. But where is the law? Where are the courts? There is no world court that I know of. Not yet anyway. A law also needs some entity with the power to enforce it. Not the UN. Instead, there are agreements and treaties, but these are basically voluntary agreements of equals, not "laws" as we know them.

So the left could say they think some of these things are 'unethical', or 'immoral', but "illegal"!? I don't think so.

[sylvia]

testing

[Thomas Collins]

My son is fine, glenda. Thanks for asking. He was one of the teachers at a school dance yesterday. A police officer told everyone to hit the floor. My son didn't know what was going on. Apparently, the tornado was close by. However, the danger passed and everyone got up and the dance continued.

His apartment is fine but there is widespread damage and flooding in Shreveport and Bossier City.

[osıɔɹɐu]

Yes we know about Sequoia, you forget I live not that far from Little Caracas, El Doral. And ES& S, more than you would ever know, and Diebold. Yet you still think national health care is a solution, not yet another problem

BTW in the LUN. It seems our old friend, Morton Halperin is behind the infamous Goldstone "j'accuse" against Israel. Agee's
facilitator at the Washington ACLU

[Thomas Collins]

"Are you insulting Steinbrenner or Obama here?"

Hit and run (at least I think it's hit and run; I am still getting used to these new symbols some JOMers are using), I would never put Obama in Steinbrenner's class. George is much classier and would have made a better President (too bad George wasn't President in his prime; we would have had Billy Martin hired and fired several times over as Chief of Staff).

[Ignatz]

--testing

Posted by: sylvia--

Yes you are sylvia and congrats for that self revelatory moment.

[glenda]

Good news, TC...the upside down stuff makes me dizzyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

clarice..great info on Lieberman, it is another worry for rahm which hopefully, will make them panic more than now--I don't think JL would be so vocal about turning, unless he thought a majority might be coming.??

Perfect weather for some braising, what's cooking for Halloween? I'll be busy this weekend cooking rouxs and sauces for the deerslayer husband to add meats and seafood when he heads to the Hill Country for his yearly man-ritual of hunting. Ammunition is scarce, though...wonder who's worried about Texans with deer rifles?

[clarice]

narciso--that's an important story--If it were properly reported it could kill that Soros front anti-Israeli J St gang.
As a side note, because of Halperin my phone was tapped. Kissinger didn't trust him and put a wiretap on his line. A friend was at our house and called him on our phone to make arrangements for some Indian club their kids belonged to--one which used all kinds of crazy Indian words to communicate. So the message was something weird in "Indian-talk" about a rescheduling. I always wondered what the FBI thought that was all about.

[PD]

His apartment is fine but there is widespread damage and flooding in Shreveport and Bossier City.

How's the AFB, my place of birth?

[clarice]

glenda, what a great idea. I love venison..mmm My husband is at a reunion this weekend and I plan to use it to eat more lgihtly..but the folks who wrote Artisan Bread in 5 minutes a Day have come out with a new book Healthy breads in 5 minutes a day which I just got and plan to make a batch of whole wheat dough for next week's baking.

[osıɔɹɐu]

And Jack Anderson wasn't involved in all this, somehow. Wow clarice, I wouldn't have guessed, you were at the Justice Department
at the time, right, which would have made things even more interesting if that were
possible

[clarice]

I don't remember if I was or not. I only remember laughing when I read about the wiretaps and trying to imagine what the FBI thought that was all about.

[Old Lurker]

"My husband is at a reunion this weekend and I plan to use it to eat more lightly..."

See! You women are all alike. Cannot tell you how many times I have heard Mrs. Lurker tell some girlfriend that she would love to be on some diet or another but for the fact that OL needs dinner every night!

Jeez.

[clarice]

You hear it a lot because it's true. My caloric intake is much lower when I only have to cook for myself.

[Thomas Collins]

PD, see LUN for the only info I have seen on the AFB so far (relating to delayed opening).

[daddy]

Wow Clarice,

You're at the top of my "Totem Pole" for being targeted by the Fed's for using secret Indian Code lingo.
Can I make a "Reservation" for a "Pow Wow" with you during the next "Redskins" Game? If you supply the "Potlatch" supper, I'll supply the "Fire Water."

Sounds like "Heap big fun Kemosabi:)

[Old Lurker]

Ha! Clarice.

[clarice]

The group actually had a very eaborate fake lingo--I wonder how many translators the Bureau went thru before figuring out it was nonsense. (The person at the other end--that is, my house--had a very distinctive accent and may even have been recognizable to whoever heard it.) Double HEH

[cathyf]

I had some friends in my old Hyde Park days who were elderly sisters from some remote Swiss village. They were tapped by the Chicago Police Red Squad. When the FOIA stuff came back, they realized that the Red Squad had paid some pretty big bucks to have their conversations translated, because they were in this really obscure dialect. They were pretty disappointed, since the conversations were lots of "can you pick me up some flour when you go to the store" and "remember that funny little boy from preschool I still say he had a crush on you."

[Sue]

The WH has released its visitor's log...I need help. What are the codes at the top?

http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/disclosures/visitor-records>visitors

Oh, and Tapper is reporting that officials say that the William Ayers, Jeremiah Wright R. Kelly, and Malik Shabazz on the list are not the "real" ones. One of the William Ayers has an A for his middle name. The real Bill Ayers is William Charles Ayers. The other one doesn't list his middle initial. However, the real George Clooney and William "Brad" Pitt are on there.

[daddy]

I didn't see Pol Pot, Stalin, or Noam Chomsky on the list either.

I think they're still holding out on us.

[Porchlight]

Sue,

Some interesting names on there. Vikram Pandit - is that the Citi CEO? Or maybe the WH visitor isn't the "real" Vikram Pandit.

[Rick Ballard]

Porchlight,

It was the "other" James Dimon (six check deliveries) and the "other" Lloyd Blankfein (four check deliveries) as well. I suppose a large crowd of hogs should be expected at the biggest trough in the world.

Angela Davis? Twice?

It's good to see that the Ditherer In Chief finds time for the little people.

[PD]

TC, thanks.

[PD]

Oh, and Tapper is reporting that officials say that the William Ayers, Jeremiah Wright R. Kelly, and Malik Shabazz on the list are not the "real" ones.

Why have a log if you can make up any old thing to sign in?

[Porchlight]

I suppose a large crowd of hogs should be expected at the biggest trough in the world.

Immelt, too, I notice. Ugh. What I would give for a GE run the way it used to be run.

[Ignatz]

--Angela Davis? Twice?--

I question that.
More likely Van Jones in drag and an afro wig.

[Marin, my mens.]

Man, isn't that some pretty courthouse?
=======================

[laura]

Seems to resemble Andrew Jackson's White House list

[matt]

Has anyone noticed that Timothy Geithner sounds like a 14 year old in the middle of puberty? very reassuring from a Secretary of the Treasury.

I am amazed that no comedians have been doing sketches with him, Nancy, Harry, and Barney. You wouldn't even have to be mean. Just the juxtaposition of voices is a crack up. Almost like a Bugs Bunny cartoon featuring Stalinists on helium.

[Frau Weisenheimer]

Angela Davis? Twice?
She was there to help Michelle with decorating and fashion tips...nothing else!

From what I read/heard earlier, the visitors list was started *late* and omits the early, Lincoln Bedroom folk, including some who were thrown under the bus for obvious PR reasons.

narciso - just how large do you think Uncle Soros's Open Society harem is?

[Frau Weisenheimer]

Yikes, to *boldy* go where the Weisenheimer sent us!

[Frau Weisenheimer]

Yikes, to *boldy* go where the Weisenheimer sent us!

[MayBee]

Yeah, Frau, names who have been reported as being in the White House- like Whitaker and Rogers- aren't in the logs at all.
I can't tell if the people who went to the various parties are there, but it seems not.

[Sue]

If I am reading correctly, the names released are names that were requested. The list is incomplete.

[osıɔɹɐu]

Who knows, I didn't until today that Mort
"teeny tiny" Halperin, was Open Society, I knew he was VP at CAP, the modern equivalent
to IPS, from whence the VIPers (McGovern,
Cannistraro, Madsen) came. Halperin is btw
the father of ABCs the Note,

[Porchlight]

From Sue's WH link, I think they said they were only giving the names of people who visited after September 15 - but release of those names was supposed to begin in December:

In December 2009, we will begin posting all White House visitor records for the period from September 15th onwards under the terms of our new voluntary disclosure policy. In addition, as part of our new policy, we will post records dating from January 20th that are specifically requested on an ongoing basis. For more information, read the White House blog post announcing the new policy.

IOW, making it as difficult as possible to figure out who and when. Some transparency.

[MayBee]

Mark Halperin at TIME, right?

ABC's the note is now Rick Klein, cutie patootie.

[MayBee]

It's sad. Not on there- Volker, Buffet. On there- Andy Stern.

[osıɔɹɐu]

Well Maybee, Mark started up the note at ABC, as memory serves, of course going to Time is down to another level of hell, altogether.

[Sue]

The visitor logs span from January 20th – September, 15th, 2009 yet is only in response to individual request that are "reasonable, narrow, and specific." For example the White House would not release a blanket request for all of the visitor logs during that nine month period.

That is from Tapper's site. I read somewhere else that they were asked for and released all William Ayers and Jeremiah Wright names even though the person asking was looking for the real ones. The list we are seeing is in response to FOIA requests. They are pulling our legs here. Over 100,000 visitors per month to the WH and they will not release anything but a specific request, and only if they want to.

[BR]

Interesting, Narciso and Clarice, about Halperin. He was also behind Daniel Ellsberg and has admitted to running the legal team who defended Ellsberg and Russo in California, Boudin and Weinglass.

I was interested years ago, Clarice, to find your name in some archive on the net, showing you'd written Halperin a letter in the 50's. Do you still remember that?

After reading Jim Hougan's "Secret Agenda," my theory is that Kissinger used the threatened Ellsberg leaks of the "Pentagon Papers" to set up the Plumbers Unit. (The leaks had not yet occurred, when the Plumbers Unit was first created in April '71 when CIA/Mullen Co's Hunt went to Miami to meet with Barker and recruit the ex-Bay of Pig Cubans for the Unit.) The papers were actually taken from the WH, where Ellsberg had worked in the NSC, to the Rand Institute, where Ellsberg and Halperin were at the time of the leaks to the NY Times in June '71.

[osıɔɹɐu]

As I recall didn't the Plumbers arise out of leaks of bombing targets in Cambodia, to William Beecher of the Times, among others.
I knew that Halperin was trying to negotiate
a NLF coalition govt, which would have made
the military gains at the times, worthless,
things that would never happen nowadays.
And as I pointed out earlier, one of the remaining players of the Pentagon Papers
is a current Huff Po contributor, and wife
of the underwriters of the 'one that will not be named' advertising campaign
be named

[BR]

See Hougan's Chapter 2, specifically pg 29-30 in hardback.

[PD]

Over 100,000 visitors per month to the WH and they will not release anything but a specific request, and only if they want to.

All the while spinning it as unprecedented open access:

Transparency like you’ve never seen before

These people are morons, or think we are.

[clarice]

"I was interested years ago, Clarice, to find your name in some archive on the net, showing you'd written Halperin a letter in the 50's. Do you still remember that?"

In the 50's I was in high school and I am certain I never heard of him then. I am reasonably certain I never wrote to him ever.

[BR]

I'll try to find that reference again sometime, if you're interested. I remember it was an odd listing of the contents of boxes and files of someone's personal papers related to Halperin. And I had just read one of your articles for the first time at AT, and linked it at wizbang, before I found JOM. So, your name jumped out at me in that list. Perhaps it was later than the 50's.

[clarice]

I've never had any personal dealings with him, BR, and don't recall any case i handled in which he was involved. It's an intriguing referece.

There was a Carey Feldman who was a US Atty here and she may have been involved with the Ellsberg investigation.

[narciso]

That seemed unlikely to me, too, meanwhile some places will publish anything as long as
long as it doesn't make a lick of sense, in the LUN. BTW Mr. Voorhees is also there, showing his inimicable wisdom

[clarice]

Boudin BTW was the father of one of the Weathermagang, Kathy Boudin. Tis a small world.

[narciso]

This is a little more on the Open Society Institute, in the LUN. Halperin, Moyers and
Guinier, what fresh hell is this/

[Ann]

narciso,

That link is down right scary. Wonder how many tax dollars stimulated them?

You have probably seen this but I will link it for others interested: Who's behind the Obama Honduras policy?

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet]

From N's link

Assets: $858,935,162 (2005)
Grants Received: $377,413,561 (2005)
Grants Awarded: $65,934,588 (2005)

Between 1998 and 2003, OSI received more than $30 million from U.S. government agencies. Various State Department documents indicate that OSI has been paid to run what the Department describes as "democratization programs" in a number of countries, including Uzbekistan, Burma, and regions of Central Asia.

Looks like Soros got some help he didn't really need.

[clarice]

Isn't that sweet? What a gig.

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet]

That is the equivalent of a law firm grossing $300mm with assets of $.8 billion.

A company with a gross margin of 30% and $300 mm in SG&A would have to gross nearly $1.0 bb just to break even.

Pretty big institution isn't it?

[BR]

I don't want to leave you in a mystery, Clarice, so I just spent an hour looking through items on an old CD. I'm pretty good with names - it wasn't "Carey."

Does the name "Martin Orne" ring a bell? It might have been an inventory of his personal papers.

[Elliott]

A real William Pitt? Perhaps Obama does want to improve Anglo-American relations after all.

[Pofarmer]

When you've bounced the thugs from office put a stake in them

Our problem in a nutshell. You vote them out of office, and they just become lobbyists, or get hired by a think tank, or become a part of some other administration.

[Jack is Back!]

For everyone's interest, I have just had my 6 year old son explain to me what each of our avatar signs mean:

Blue = Water
Gold = Electric
Red = Fire
Black/Gray (narcisco's) = Wind
Green = Earth
Black/Gray (Pofarmer's) = Space
Gold/Yellow (Sue's) = Ancient Electric
Purple (maybee's) = Ancient Wind

Never disagree with a kid who can name all 5,267 Pokemon.

[clarice]

No, Martin Orne doesn't ring a bell either.
Looks like yesterday's report wasn't quite true--THE HONDURANS HAVE OUTFOXED OBBAMa !!!\lun

[centralcal]

Interesting link, Clarice. I certainly hope it all works out as written. (for the Hondurans, not for HRC.)

[DAVOD]

Don't forget the UN even declared the actions of the Honduran government legal.

[Jane]

Is there any doubt that the Iranians will play this administration like a fiddle?

[narciso]

Except my icon, is blue JIB, who is going to tell them than little Honduras,snookered
them. Ohr the Persians who invented chess will and are walking all over them.

[Captain Hate]

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton trumpeted the result as a diplomatic triumph, but it's more accurate to say that it extricated her and the Obama Administration from the box canyon they entered by throwing in with Mr. Zelaya. Hondurans had deposed Mr. Zelaya on entirely legal grounds for threatening violence and violating the country's constitution in an attempt to run for a second term. The U.S. nonetheless meddled and demanded that Mr. Zelaya be reinstated. But Hondurans refused to bend, and the State Department apparently decided at last that Honduras was going to go ahead with its election whether the U.S. agreed or not. The Honduran compromise provided Mrs. Clinton with an elegant diplomatic exit.

LOL @ anything associated with the glacier in pantsuits being called "elegant". Glad to see the Hondurans play Bammers and Kerry like the clueless gasbags they are. Any trick or treaters coming dressed as those idiots are getting lots of candy.

[Jack is Back!]

narcisco,

Our apologies - he mean't Ann's:)

[clarice]

The editors of the WaPo hail this as an Obama triumph. Let's offer to play poker with them.

[And what about the drugs, and Soros?]

I think this about Honduras is really kind of interesting. First of all, I want to congratulate the Hondurans on an enduring classic of righteous politics. They have walked through the valley of the shadow of death.

But I'm a little more curious about the Hillary/Obama dynamic here. Clearly, Obama leaped into that box canyon in reaction to his political instincts, which are right in line with Chavez, Castro, Ahmadi-Nijad, and Putin, and went with the authoritarian ruler. His whole administrative apparatus went with him, apparently without anyone pointing out that the acts of the Hondurans were Constitutional. How did that happen? Was there no one saying, 'Hey, just one minute; it is not a coup'?

Well, denouement is in favor of the Hondurans, and Hillary walked it back. Hmmmm.
===========================

[clarice]

As I recall some moog in the DoS wrote a legal opinion that it was a coup--the govt has refused to make that memo public and Kerry is trying to get the Library of Congress to withdraw its opinion that the removal of Zelaya from office was egal under Honduran law.
The DOS is surely riddled with Chavistas and Castroites..and Kerry's now dead father was surely one of those diploleftists.

[Ignatz]

--Various State Department documents indicate that OSI has been paid to run what the Department describes as "democratization programs" in a number of countries, including Uzbekistan, Burma, and regions of Central Asia.--

Anybody at State had a look at Uzbekistan or Burma lately?
Why not just put the money in a pile and burn it?

--Kerry is trying to get the Library of Congress to withdraw its opinion that the removal of Zelaya from office was egal under Honduran law.--

clarice, the headline at Hotair yesterday was: "Law Library of Congress to Kerry: Pound Sand", so it looks like Herman has his work cut out for him, and we know how much Herman enjoys work.

[clarice]

It's nice to know some places don't tender up legal opinions to suit their paymasters..Good for the Library of Congress.

[Captain Hate]

I'm a little more curious about the Hillary/Obama dynamic here

It's fine with me to have Her Thighness lashed to the mast of the SS Bammy. Calling her preferable to Il Douche is like quibbling over the relative merits of Slick and Carter; all of them were bad for the country.

[Captain Hate]

Since today is Halloween, if Lurch is Herman which one is Eddie?

[PD]

which one is Eddie?

Soros.

[Captain Hate]

Great response.

[Captain Jethro]

Maybe we should send John Negroponte back to Honduras. He did such a bang-up job propping up the Junta in the 80's, he's a cinch to
resolve the issue Republican Style. He might even qualify for the Nobel Anti-Peace Prize.

[AST]

Somebody needs to explain to me what Zelaya is to Obama. Why waste any time on this at all?

[qrstuv]

"Somebody needs to explain to me what Zelaya is to Obama."

A precedent.

[Ignatz]

--which one is Eddie?

Soros.--

Hate to differ PD but Soros is a dead ringer for Grandpa.

I'd say Rahm or Biden is more of an Eddie, with the edge going to Biden. Rahm is more of a Haskell than a Munster.