Now They're Asking?

Not to tell the Administration how to do its job, but this from the WaPo is somewhat terrifying:

President Obama has asked senior officials for a province-by-province analysis of Afghanistan to determine which regions are being managed effectively by local leaders and which require international help, information that his advisers say will guide his decision on how many additional U.S. troops to send to the battle.

Obama made the request in a meeting Monday with Vice President Biden and a small group of senior advisers helping him decide whether to expand the war. The detail he is now seeking also reflects the administration's turn toward Afghanistan's provincial governors, tribal leaders and local militias as potentially more effective partners in the effort than a historically weak central government that is confronting questions of legitimacy after the flawed Aug. 20 presidential election.

Obama had a strategy review in March, with a suggestion that some issues would be deferred until after the Afghan election in August.  Now October is winding down and the Community Organizer-in-Chief wants charts and maps of the various communities to be organized and estimates of the number of activists troops required to do so.

I am not so bold as to suggest that the Afghanistan problem is even harder than getting the asbestos out of Altgeld Gardens.  But it seems awfully late in the process for Obama to be operating at this level of detail.  If we settled on a counterinsurgency strategy in March, surely it occurred to people at the time that we ought to have a review of our prospective local partners. 

Please tell me that it has not just dawned on Obama in late October that we will be working with "Afghanistan's provincial governors, tribal leaders and local militias as potentially more effective partners" that the Karzai government in Kabul - working with the locals was a basic part of the successful surge in Iraq and had to have been a basic part of the strategy in Afghanistan.

Either Obama has known of these partnerships for months but is no longer confident delegating that level of detail down the chain of command (troubling), or this is news to Obama (terrifying).  Obama is not stupid, so I am guessing this means he has lost confidence in his generals.  That's Kennedyesque!  (Always a good thing for Dems.)  Another possibility is that Obama is deeply unsettled about what to do and is flailing about and micromanaging as an alternative to making a decision.

Any loss of confidence may be mutual:

"There are a lot of questions about why McChrystal has identified the areas that he has identified as needing more forces," said a senior military official familiar with the review, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the deliberations candidly. "Some see it as an attempt by the White House to do due diligence on the commander's troop request. A less charitable view is that it is a 5,000-mile screwdriver tinkering from Washington." 

Since Obama is going to abandon this war anyway, it might be prudent for him to do so now.

FLAW WITH THE SURGE ANALOGY:  This is interesting:

McChrystal has advocated something far closer to a nation-building project. Some Republican supporters of the general's plan in Congress have compared his strategy to the 2007 "surge" of U.S. troops in Iraq, a shorter-term effort that helped pull the country back from sectarian civil war.

But administration officials reject the comparison, pointing out that McChrystal's troop request would require a far longer deployment of U.S. forces and that Afghanistan is in a less dire position than Iraq was at the time of the surge.

Most important, administration officials say, the violence in Afghanistan is directed against U.S. forces rather than among Afghans. In Iraq, much of the pre-surge violence involved Iraqi Sunnis and Shiites fighting for control of the state, which gave the U.S. military a clearer role in protecting Iraqi civilians.

"There are some areas of the country that will fight us and fight the Taliban just because we are there," Sen. Jack Reed (D-R.I.), a member of the Armed Services Committee, told reporters Wednesday.

Afghanistan fought a civil war for years before the Taliban gained power, so they must have some flair for finding internal foes.  However, the WSJ is running a guest piece making a similar point:

From the beginning of 2007 to March 2008, the 82nd Airborne Division's strategy in Khost proved that 250 paratroopers could secure a province of a million people in the Pashtun belt. The key to success in Khost—which shares a 184 kilometer-long border with Pakistan's lawless Federally Administered Tribal Areas—was working within the Afghan system. By partnering with closely supervised Afghan National Security Forces and a competent governor and subgovernors, U.S. forces were able to win the support of Khost's 13 tribes.

Today, 2,400 U.S. soldiers are stationed in Khost. But the province is more dangerous.

I see a chicken and egg puzzle here - did we add more troops in response to an increased insurgent presence, or did we add more troops for some other reason, thereby attracting insurgents?  This does not really answer me:

Raids by the paratroopers under the leadership of Lt. Col. Scott Custer were extremely rare because the team had such good relations with the tribes that they would generally turn over any suspect. These good tribal relations were strengthened further by meeting the communities' demands for a new paved road, five schools, and a spring water system that supplies 12,000 villagers.

Yet security has deteriorated in Khost, despite increases of U.S. troops in mid-2008. American strategy began to focus more on chasing the insurgents in the mountains instead of securing the towns and villages where most Khostis live.

The insurgents didn't stick around to get shot when they saw the American helicopters coming. But the villagers noticed when the roads weren't built on time and the commanders never visited.

If we added troops to chase insurgents we had previously ignored, then we brought this upon ourselves.  If we added troops to chase insurgents who were new to the area, the lesson would be different.

PILING ON:  Snark piles up around the web.  Here is Michael Crowley of TNR:

Obama wants a study of the country at a micro-level. That seems reasonable enough in the abstract--but it's also coming a bit late. This, too, wasn't done during that January-March review? It also signals something less than a vote of total confidence in the judgment of the top U.S. commander on the ground, Stanley McChrystal.

Jennifer Rubin of Commentary:

Searching For A Different Answer

The White House seminars on the Afghanistan war are continuing. The term papers assigned this quarter include a “province-by-province analysis of Afghanistan to determine which regions are being managed effectively by local leaders and which require international help, information that his advisers say will guide his decision on how many additional U.S. troops to send to the battle.” But there is a hint as to where this is headed. The military commanders are being phased out and the political appointees are taking charge...

And Jules Crittenden:

Gen. L.B.J. “Fightin’ Joe Biden” Obama

The Hero of Altgeld Gardens* asks for a province-by-province analysis of Afghanistan to help decide where, whether, he’ll deploy his troops. Washington Post...

...Two months and half-a-dozen meetings in, the old warhorse is taking the bull by the horns. Either McChrystal didn’t do his job, or they suddenly decided they want to check his homework. Or, in order to avoid another Vietnam, Obama’s taken a page from LBJ’s book and decided to start running the war from the White House.

And a classic exhortation to inspire our White House team:

 "I love the smell of Magic Markers in the morning!”

Comments

[MarkO]

First off, it's always Bush's fault. Next in line, it's America's fault.

[PD]

Maybe he wants this information so he can determine allocations of ACORN employees by district. To help the election run smoothly, you know.

[Fresh Air]

Obama is not stupid...

Care to produce any evidence for this?

For the prosecution:

- Date night
- SoL flyover
- Porkulus
- GM & Chrysler takeovers
- 2009 budget
- Rocco Landesman
- Buffy WIcks
- Eric Holder
- Van Jones
- Golfer in Chief
- Healthcare "Reform"
- 24 healthcare speeches to support same
- Chicago Olympics
- Dithering in Afghanistan
- 30 minutes with McChrystal in six months
- Jihad on Fox News
- Nobel Peace Prize acceptance

Oh, and for good measure...

- Bill Ayers

The prosecution will rest now.

[Steve C.]

Anyone who has worked in a large organization will recognize this for what it is, a delaying tactic. Somewhere some drone has framed the question and higher ups have taken it up as a challenge to the accuracy of McChrystal's assumptions.

The funny things is that ISAF, Centcom and the JCS have entire staffs of smart guys whose job it is validate McChrystal's assumptions. And now we have his recommendations being nibbled to death by ducks for the sole purpose of being "thorough" and "accurate". I wonder how Eisenhower would have responded if Harry Hopkins had asked him if the calculations on .30 rifle ammunition expenditure for the 4th Infantry Division from D+1 to D+30 were accurate.

Expect to see more agonizing over the details as we go forward. These politicians are scared shitless about making the "wrong" decision. I wonder if anyone has bothered to tell them that the enemy gets a vote too.

[His Momma shoulda let him play with toy soldiers.]

Hitler, at least, had a reason for thinking that he knew more about combat operations than his general.
==========================

[Jane]

This is that coward Kerry's idea.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Steve, I think you've nailed it.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

I have to say, though, it's a good thing this is Afghanistan and not Kashmir.

Would you want to be under the command of Colonel Custer, fighting Indians?

[clarice]

Here we go:
House to Unveil Plan With Public Option, Wealth Tax (Update1)
Share Business ExchangeTwitterFacebook| Email | Print | A A A By James Rowley and Kristin Jensen

Oct. 29 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. House leaders today plan to unveil legislation that would create a government-run health- insurance program, require employers to offer coverage to their workers and impose a new tax on the wealthiest Americans.

The legislation comes after three months of negotiations by House Democrats and represents the most sweeping changes to the nation’s health-care system since the 1965 creation of the federal Medicare program for the elderly. The measure would overhaul the insurance market, encourage greater use of preventive medicine and help Americans buy coverage.

“We think we’ll have the votes,” said California Representative George Miller, who runs the House Education and Labor Committee, after meeting with fellow Democrats yesterday. Formal debate is planned for next week, Miller said.

Lawmakers said House Speaker Nancy Pelosi agreed to a compromise over one of the most divisive issues facing Congress -- the establishment of the government insurance program to compete with private insurers try to and drive down costs.

Lacking votes for a program that would tie the program’s reimbursements to doctors to the lower rates paid by Medicare, Pelosi settled on a plan that would instead negotiate rates with providers, as private insurers do, lawmakers said.

[unɹ puɐ ʇıɥ]

Or Colonel Mustard in the study with the candlestick.

[Thomas Collins]

Wealth tax to fund ObamaCare, eh? Wasn't it Margaret Thatcher who said that the problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money? I'm guessing sooner in this case.

[unɹ puɐ ʇıɥ]

Well, I don't know about you, but they've run out of my money.

[bunky]

Next: a sheep by sheep analysis, just to be thorough............

[Jack is Back!]

Well it is now a proven fact that Once is a JOMer. Only here could he have learned that it takes One Tribe at A Time which I posted in LUN a few days back. He gets all his G2 and military knowledge here. Joe Biden gets his from the Amtrak conductor on the 5:12 out of DC.

[lonetown]

Well, we are certainly in for it, because if there is one thing that has been true for thousands of years is:

Hubris precedes Nemesis

[Jack is Back!]

Hey bunky,

Goats, dude, goats.

[bunky]

Jack: sorry man. Ground truth rules.

[Cecil Turner]

I wonder how Eisenhower would have responded . . .

Well, one hopes he'd have followed the example of the Iron Duke (probably a forgery) responding to excessive administrative demands:

This brings me to my present purpose, which is to request elucidation of my instructions from His Majesty's Government so that I may better understand why I am dragging an army over these barren plains. I construe that perforce it must be one of two alternative duties, as given below. I shall pursue either one with the best of my ability, but I cannot do both:

1. To train an army of uniformed British clerks in Spain for the benefit of the accountants and copy-boys in London or perchance.

2. To see to it that the forces of Napoleon are driven out of Spain.

Your most obedient servant,
Wellington

[bunky]

Anybody that has ever been on a military staff knows the impossible hours and excruciating detail demanded. Factor that by 5 with McChrystal, a Delta guy who always exceeds the standard. The staff product already has a province by province breakdown, town by town rural vs city, etc. This is "you can't copy my homework" BS.

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet]

Bunky:

It also sounds like the meticulous but dithering George Brinton McClellan at during his stint as the CO of the Army of the Potomac.

[bunky]

JRaka: roger that, no other organization on the planet has the planning capability of the US miltary joint staffs, nobody. It is time to move out and draw fire.

[Ranger]

Anyone who has worked in a large organization will recognize this for what it is, a delaying tactic. Somewhere some drone has framed the question and higher ups have taken it up as a challenge to the accuracy of McChrystal's assumptions.

Posted by: Steve C. | October 29, 2009 at 11:44 AM

Yes. I would guess that this is the results of the computer exercises they were running on various options. Using McChrystal's assumptions probably produced results that supported his demand for 40,000 new troops. Now they want all the base data to tinker with so they can run some simulaitons that will support the already decided "split the baby" approach of sending 20-25K more troops.

[sbw]

Poster material: Well, I don't know about you, but they've run out of my money.

Wonderful, Hit!

[Cecil Turner]

Anyone who has worked in a large organization will recognize this for what it is, a delaying tactic.

Yep, and it's all political. Despite the nonsense emanating from the White House, this is not a complicated decision. Either they're going to support the guy in the field, or not. If so, they ought to announce that immediately, and if they want to pare down his request a bit, they can do that in the execution phase. If they don't want to support him, they need to replace him (and they owe it to the troops in harm's way to do that now).

The dithering and focus-group testing of various trial balloons is obviously not warranted from any possible military standpoint, and hence this is all based on (domestic) political considerations. Which would be fine, if it wasn't providing an incentive for the enemy to kill more of our troops . . . which of course it is. (October is the bloodiest month yet . . . there's a surprise.)

[James]

I thought it was just a delaying tactic before finishing the article, and I am neither a politician or a military man.

[MarkJ]

Obama is truly European: in ObamaWorld "process" = "results."

Hitler's big mistake was being born 60 years too soon: if he was running Germany today, the Wehrmacht would already be setting up shop in Moscow while Lord Zero was still requesting provincial micro-reviews of the Ukraine.

[JM Hanes]

While the emphasis on shoring up the central government in Iraq certainly seems an unlikely model for Afghanistan, the really scary part of WaPo's story is those Senior Advisors assigned to suss out the locals -- and the generous 4 day window they've been allotted to git 'r done:

The review group once included intelligence officials, generals and ambassadors, but it has recently narrowed to a far smaller number of senior civilian advisers, including Biden, Gates, Jones, Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton and White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel. Administration officials said the province-by-province analysis will be ready for Obama before his scheduled Friday meeting with the Joint Chiefs of Staff at the White House.

On the one hand, we've got McChrystal and Petraeus, on the other Emanuel and Clinton. What to do? Could it get any worse? Why, yes, it could. Perhaps after reading the Biden polls, the White House has brought in JF Kerry as ambassador at large and ex officio military genius.

Loved the quote from "a senior military official:"

"Some see it as an attempt by the White House to do due diligence on the commander's troop request. A less charitable view is that it is a 5,000-mile screwdriver tinkering from Washington."

It isn't hard to guess who's the "some" here, and who's not, is it?

Although Obama had been expected to announce his decision before leaving Nov. 11 on a 10-day trip to Asia, administration officials say he may wait until he returns.

Because things are just much clearer when you're 30,000 feet above the fray -- and it would be shame if reporters at Obama's next primetime presser were distracted by the results of the elections next week.

Obama will never bless the McChrystal proposal. How silly would that make him look? After making his commander on the ground cool his heels in the hallway for months, while conducting an orgy of second guessing at the White House, Obama is hardly going to announce that McChrystal was right all along. He'll make it perfectly clear that he's the Strategist in Chief, and that McChrystal (good man, proud to have him on the team!) is (just) a tactician. The really difficult decisions fall to the Decider, who must look at the larger picture, yada yada.

The tricky part is figuring out how to take the credit if McChrystal succeeds, and how to pass the buck if the new improved Obama strategy is a bust. Casting doubt on McChrysal's professional judgment is a political freebie, either way. Obama will adopt enough of the General's plan to keep him from quitting. Then McChrystal can be relieved of his command should Team Obama find themselves in need of a scapegoat. Now that their attempt to take credit for the Bush strategy by denying there was one and then blaming him for the mess which confronted them, has been exposed for what it is, they've dramatically shortened the shelf life of their Bush disclaimers on the military front.

[B Buckner]

Lt Colonel Custer should have made a stand in Khost.

[clarice]

An excellent article on the poser at Dover:
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2009/10/the_audacity_of_image_obama_at.html
Kristen at F.R. says 17 of the 18 families involved REFUSED to let the ditherer in chief pose with the body of their slain one. Only one family permitted it. Otherwise the all important photo op would have been of Obama saluting air.

[clarice]

I love Taranto:
"Politico's Ben Smith, meanwhile, reports that the Democratic National Committee is waging a concerted effort against last year's unsuccessful vice presidential candidate, a woman who no longer holds public office. "This week," writes the DNC's Jen O'Malley in an email to supporters, "we're calling out Sarah Palin and taking to Facebook to debunk her lies on the very same pages she's using to spread them."

Wow, this scrappy insurgency is waging war on at least three powerful institutions all at once: Fox, the AP and Sarah Palin's Facebook page! It makes you wonder what in the world Doug Brinkley is talking about in this quote from London's Independent:

"Obama has created an atmosphere of no fear," Douglas Brinkley, a history professor at Rice University and political biographer, told the National Journal. "Nobody is really worried about the revenge of Barack Obama, because he is not a vengeful man. That's what we love about him; he is so high-minded, and a conciliatory guy, and he tries to govern with a sense of consensus--all noble goals, but they don't get you very far in this Washington knifing environment."
Is he kidding? This columnist lives in constant fear that the White House will decide to speak truth to our power and add us to his enemies list. Well, Mr. President, do what you will to us, but please! Spare our Facebook page!

And if we're this terrified, we can only imagine what America's enemies must be thinking"

[Porchlight]

"Obama has created an atmosphere of no fear," Douglas Brinkley, a history professor at Rice University and political biographer

Brinkley has a day job at Rice? I had no idea.

[bgates]

Obama has created an atmosphere of no fear

That's because we know that as we move through the worst economic climate since the Great Depression, he's between us and the pitchforks.

[Old Lurker]

Jim Rhoads...hey, I like "JRaka" (hat tip Bunky)

The problem with your observation is that McClellan worked for Lincoln, not the other way around.

As to the weath tax and running out of other people's money. Those words are right, even when rearranged "money is running...out to other countries where it is treated better"

[Jack is Back!]

Rice University has fallen down a peg or two since it was Rice Institute and King Hill was an all-american quarterback. I wonder if Brinkley, whose father was terrific on his Sunday news talk show, works for James Baker's policy institute or is just a "grant" hanger-on. It's a pretty pathetic statement on his part.

Glenn Beck is just too organized, pitch perfect and totally the most creative commentator in the media since Chuck Barris.

[clarice]

Brinkley--Kerry's "biographer", last seen poling thru the Katrina Mess with Chavez' friend , Sean Penn http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/7661196/apocalypse_there> ..This generation's whoring historian

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet]

I understand, OL. But McClellan came damn close to being elected CIC in 1864 when his only apparent talents were planning and delay.

I was trying to suggest those are the only qualities the Once now exhibits as CIC in Afghanistan, Iraq, the Middle East/Israel.

[Rick Ballard]

OL,

C'mon, surely you saw the unbelievably fantastic numbers on Q3 GDP. The Obama Administration has shown the world that economic growth can be achieved even with the third worst decline in personal income over the past forty quarters. They've obviously discovered the secret to perpetual motion.

[osıɔɹɐu]

Now Mclellan had more business experience than the One, he was kind of the Colin Powell of the 1860s. Right we know the one doesn't hold grudges, right Mr. Rouse.

[Old Lurker]

Yes, Rick and I saw the Drudge story about the Clunker Program costing $24,000 per clunker. Makes those $600 toilet seats of years past look like chump change!

JRaka, no, I got your point about McClellan, and it was right on. But while he could plan and delay, of those two skills I only know for sure that Once is good at delaying.

[bad]

One of the tax hikes in the Healthcare Ruination bill:

Codification of the “Economic Substance Doctrine” (Page 349): Empowers the IRS to disallow a perfectly legal tax deduction or other tax relief merely because the IRS deems that the motive of the taxpayer was not primarily business-related.

I guess the decision will be made by the same IRS stiffs who cheated on their taxes (Geithner) or perhaps the ones who illegally obtained housing rebates.

What could go wrong.... LUN

[verner]

Obama is going to follow his instinct, appease his far left base, and leave Afghanistan to rot.

The first big clue was the disgusting photo-op he had at Dover (and does anyone think that Bush would have exploited our dead soldiers in that way? NO CLASS.) He is going to say something along the lines of "I can not sacrifice our soldiers for a corrupt government blah blah blah. And then, we're out of there.

And why not. I think it's been his plan all along. He just took the "Afghanistan is a good war" pose to look "presidential" before the election, because he knew he wouldn't get elected as a typical anti-war appeaser.

And personally, I think he set McCrystal up.

Like all neo-marxists he doesn't believe there is a war on terror anyway. It's all our fault, and just the world's poor oppressed people reacting to American hegemony and exploitation. And once the evil economic and military power of the great Satan is eliminated....well...

[daddy]

"Nobody is really worried about the revenge of Barack Obama, because he is not a vengeful man. That's what we love about him; he is so high-minded, and a conciliatory guy, and he tries to govern with a sense of consensus--all noble goals..."

Plus he's got more modesty and humility and humbleness in his little finger than we've got in our whole body.

[Jack is Back!]

Verner,

Bad idea on his part to screw with the military like that. If you are right and he throws in the towel leaving McChrystal to look like a fool then he has a big loyalty problem with the military. They will still respect his rank as CIC but the salutes will be a little sloppy and the reports a little late. His and his staff naivete will show big time. I just can not believe Jim Jones will let this happen without resigning. He is a true patriot and very smart guy. His brother is my neighbor.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

Pelosi's bill:

1,990 pages at $2.2 million a word

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet]

I concur with Jack about the likely reaction of most regular and many reserve troops. There is nothing quite so much fun as watching officers and non-coms dealing with stupid orders from above.

They either follow orders to the letter (when they know that to do so won't harm them, and will make the superior look bad) or they will "interpret" the orders so as to do the least harm to their subordinates.

[matt]

hopscotch diplomacy? Now he's seeing the ghost of LBJ. Next thing he'll be dispatching CIA operatives and calling in air strikes.

[Gregory Koster]

Clarice, Doug Brinkley is in savage competition with Sean Wilentz to be the Arthur Schlesinger of The Once's administration. All the toadying will be rewarded with juicy book contracts and the lecture fees will go through the roof!

Question for JOMers: Is it better for The Once to ignore the returning dead? Or attend them belatedly? I grant that the midnight show at Dover had to pass the Axelrod will-it-help-us-in-the-polls test before being executed. But what is the right thing for any President to do for the returning dead?

TM needs to send this post to some gay Lefty blogs, with a covering note: "Preview of Coming Attractions in re Don't Ask, Don't Tell." TM does quote Crittenden, viz:

"Two months and half-a-dozen meetings in, the old warhorse is taking the bull by the horns."

No. The real warhorse, McCrystal, is being directed to take the bull by the balls, just like they do in Chicago---and with the usual results. McC is in a pickle:

a) his plan is pawed and mangled, but not rejected outright. Does McC quit, or try to make it work?
b) if McC quits, he's spun as a prima donna who's pouting in the manner of Geo. McClellan. The polls that show the public trusts the brass more than the frock coats do not consider the loss of interest in Afghanistan. The nation has tired of foreign affairs, and is engrossed in the idiotic third order issue of health care. The wretched economy is distracting as well.
c) if McC doesn't quit, can he pull it off? It seems doubtful, not because McC lacks the stamina and skill to make the attempt, but because his back will be filled with arrows. Such ninnies as Carl Levin have no stomach for being savaged by the Left about why we're still in Afghanistan. He'll be firing arrows at McC every chance he gets.
d) if McC does offer his resignation, my bet is The Once doesn't accept it. He'll follow LBJ's Westmoreland solution and offer McC Chief of Staff or Chairman of the JCS. If McC refuses, the "prima donna" tarbrush goes into action again. If he does, The Once has deflected much political criticism.

As a political strategy, playing to The Once's base, it's good. So too, Churchill and Anthony Eden must have thought in the winter of 1938-39. The nation will pay the price.

[sbw]

ObM, like all good Democrats, has never been wrong. Democrats never admit mistakes, so they are never wrong. Their party is based on principles, and this is a bedrock principle.

[Gregory Koster]

Verner, Jack, and Jim, I think your estimate of what will happen to military morale and discipline should McC be garotted by The Once's gang is right, but The Once will have a small problem compared to the nation. Defeat in Afghanistan is likely to cause more attacks, at home and abroad. A disgruntled, resentful military will have an even harder task added to having to serve under The Once's leadership. Too, the renewed attacks will force The Once to take action. That means an even bigger, meaner domestic security establishment. Given The Once's shoe leather conscience toward his poltical adversaries, that means all kinds of pressure and coercion.

Last November was a dam gloomy time for this nation. This October is even worse.

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet]

GK:

As to your question to JOMers, I suggest that had W gone to Dover, no one would have known about it. I am less impressed with the photoop than I would have been had he just quietly showed up there and some grateful family let the cat out of the bag.

It's the theatrics that bothers me a bit.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Or Colonel Mustard in the study with the candlestick.

At least then someone would have a clue.

[MayBee]

ha!

[verner]

Jim, the sad thing is that IMO, Obama has so little feeling and understanding for our military traditions and the men and women who serve, that I don't think he has a clue how horrible it looks to make a photo op out of trying to look like a concerned commander in chief at the expense of our follen heros in their coffins. Where's the DIGNITY in what he did? He cheapened the homecoming of our dead.

George and Laura Bush did much for the families of our troops, but they did it quietly. They had class.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

does anyone think that Bush would have exploited our dead soldiers in that way?

Hell, we know he wouldn't. he had meetings with the families that lost members, and with wounded in Walter Reed, and wouldn't allow them to be photographed.

[MayBee]

But what is the right thing for any President to do for the returning dead?

Whatever comes from the heart.
Americans don't have a tradition of the President greeting the returning dead. I think the media fascination with the flag-draped coffins is a little morbid and more than a little political.

I think it is very important to honor the war dead and their families, but the Commander in Chief must tend to all the interests in a war. He has to keep his eye on the big picture.

[MayBee]

Is there anyone that thinks what CNN did to Bush 41 was ok?

[Charlie (Colorado)]

As a political strategy, playing to The Once's base, it's good. So too, Churchill and Anthony Eden must have thought in the winter of 1938-39.

What?

I'll admit that WW II history isn't my biggest interest, but I know Churchill and Eden were very much hawks and by 1938 had been put into power as it was clear war was coming. So I'm not clear what you're trying to say.

[verner]

GK, I give the edge to Brinkley. Wilentz is so last week....

As for McCrystal, I don't think Obama thinks in the terms you've employed. I don't think he's capable of thinking strategically and/or pragmatically where the military is concerned. National Security is nowhere near his main concern. Making friends with America's enemies is his goal. He thinks that if he's nice, they'll leave us alone. Especially if we throw Israel under the bus--as you know he will if push comes to shove.

Here's what Obama is betting on--getting those 10 million illegals sworn in and ready to vote for 2012. That will insure his re-election, and Democrat majorities in congress where they can continue their domestic equalizing, and turn this great nation into a marxist pile of poo like much of the rest of the world.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Is there anyone that thinks what CNN did to Bush 41 was ok?

Golly, MayBee, you're going to have to narrow that down a bit. CNN did so many things to Bush_41....

[clarice]

MayBee, I wish I got your reference.

[MayBee]

I mean the split screen with the coffins of the soldiers returning from Iraq, while Bush was laughing at a press conference.

That's why the ban was put in place.

[osıɔɹɐu]

I think they mean the split screen of the President, speaking while bodies were coming
home from Dover, where he was being lighthearted about something

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

Gregory:

For an answer to your question about Obama going to Dover, you should read this post over at Blackfive:

FireDogLake Buttheads clueless about Bush and our war dead

[PD]

Question for JOMers: Is it better for The Once to ignore the returning dead? Or attend them belatedly? I grant that the midnight show at Dover had to pass the Axelrod will-it-help-us-in-the-polls test before being executed. But what is the right thing for any President to do for the returning dead?

Here's an answer, from one of the comments posted at the Am. Thinker article mentioned earlier:

A little known fact is that George W and Laura Bush went to Dover virtually every week and met the plane bringing the fallen soldiers home. Then they would both meet with the family members, hugging them while they cried in their arms, praying with them, visiting with them, and staying as long as family members needed and wanted them to. Many times, Bush's aides would nervoiusly whisper in his ear, "Mr President, we have pressing appointments to get to". To which he would reply, "Re-schedule it. This is more important".

But the leftist media NEVER reported this side of Bush. I disagreed with a number of his decisions he made as president. But the man had a heart and a soul, and he genuinely and acutely felt the loss of our servicemen, and he felt the grief of their families. To show this side of him would have humanized him, and this our traitorous media refused to do. And yet now they are going out of their way to use one opportunistic photo-op to portray Obama as someone who "cares". I will never forgive these media vermin for this.

[Ann]

What verner said. 100% No Class

Check this out: President Obamas Profound Experience

The transfer of our soldiers coffins should be for the families and loved ones. Not for the profound experience of Obama.

I wish someone would ask him if he is going to do this for every soldier that comes home.

[MayBee]

It is unclear why the other families declined coverage.

But none who came to Dover was told that Obama was coming until they were already there, so his planned presence was not a factor, said Dover spokesman Air Force Maj. Carl Grusnick.

The wife of Army Pfc. Brian Bates, who died Tuesday in Afghanistan, said she changed her mind and decided against allowing coverage after learning by phone around 11 p.m. EDT Wednesday that Obama would attend.

"Brian met the president, and that's all that matters," Enjolie Bates, who was not at Dover for the transfer, said in a telephone interview from her home in Lakewood, Wash. "I know he would like that. We didn't need to broadcast it to the world."

From MSNBC.

[MayBee]

I'm not sure that it's true GWB went to Dover. It's being reported otherwise.

[clarice]

Ah, I see. Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz et al also spent Friday nights with the wounded troops and like the Bush's also made numerous secret visits to Walter Reed to comfort the wounded and their families...and they refused to allow the press to accompany them.
Class.
Class.
Class.

Bush has said he doesn't know how a person can hold the president's position without religious convictions and I think what he's saying is that the burdens are otherwise to hard for a SINCERE and CONSCIENTIOUS person to bear alone.

Those qualifiers certainly don't apply to the present CiC so it doesn't apply I guess.

[clarice]

**like the Bushes****

[Janet]

FYI Matt Burden of Blackfive is running for State Representative in Illinois. There's hope for our country yet!
LUN his campaign site

[MayBee]

So what I was asking about the CNN split screen- if it is such a profound, dignified transfer meant to honor the troops- wasn't it very dishonorable for the networks to use it to make a political statement?

Haven't they continued to dishonor it by begging for the opportunity to get the most dramatic photos of flag-draped coffins? Always to show the cost of war.

Now that Obama has decided to go have his picture taken on the tarmac, they are finally describing it as an incredible, dignified, solemn experience.

[Andrew_M_Garland]

It is simple bureaucratic knowledge.

If you succeed, there is no need to answer a lot of questions.

If you fail, you need to show that you had collected all the data and did the detailed analysis, so the failure is truly a mystery, and certainly not your fault.

[PD]

Now that Obama has decided to go have his picture taken on the tarmac, they are finally describing it as an incredible, dignified, solemn experience.

This is why Campbell Brown is all over MS-NBC for their obvious left-leaning bias. 'cause CNN is so impartial.

[matt]

my understanding is that Obama wants to wait until after next weeks elections to drop the news. What a scumbag.

[Ranger]

It's the theatrics that bothers me a bit.

Posted by: Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet | October 29, 2009 at 08:53 PM

Yes, exactly. It's my understanding that W hand wrote notes to every family that lost a soldier, sailor, marine, or airman. It wasn't about the photo op, it was about the servicemember who gave the last full measure of devotion.

But for Barry, it is all about the photo op.

[Neil Melquist]

It is a stalling technique until our U.S. elections are completed on Tuesday!

Obama has been sitting on this decision for months at the expense of our sons and daughters that are fighting over there.

[Joan]

Obama. I become practically incoherent when I read about him. It is incomprehensible that he is our president. Just thinking about him sitting with Rahm Emmanuel and Joe Biden planning strategy in Afghanistan? It beggars the imagination. No, it makes me want to vomit. And, the press, the socialist, leftist scum that helped him get elected, what rattlesnake nest did they hatch from?

This is why I don't post very often. Most of you can find something witty to tweak them with, but I just get filled with rage.

Hmm, better go check my blood pressure.

[Gregory Koster]

Yipe! First Chaco, I wasn't as clear as I should have been. If you read the diaries of Harold Nicolson, Leo Amery, and Eden, you will see that Eden was worried that Chamberlain was playing himself up as the peacemaker, while spinning Eden and Churchill as warmongers. Churchill's correspondence shows the same worry, though WC was far more robust than Eden. Both were worried because in the normal order of things, a British election would have to be called no later than October 1940. Prime Ministers have been known to call snap elections earlier than the statutory date when they are riding high. Chamberlain was riding quite high between Munich and the takeover of Czechoslovakia in March 1939. Both WC and AE were worried that they might have "independent" candidates put up against them that might let Labor in while defeating them. It was an effective strategy, but Chamberlain never thought the time for a snap election was right, thank heavens. Then Czechoslovakia went down and the danger passed. I meant, as professionalpoliticians, WC & AE must have thought Chamberlain had them in a tight corner, as disastrous as that was for Great Britain.

I'm obliged to all of you for the "What should a President do?" particularly

[Gregory Koster]

Yipe! again for a premature posting. Thanks to all for the answers, especially Sara and Jim. I hadn't read the part about the photo op, and that pretty well shows that The Once is showboating yet again. I also think Verner is onto something when he tells me he doubts The Once thinks strategically about military affairs even in a How-is-this-going-to-affect-my-image sort of way? That's dam depressing in this time, when thinking about military affairs in every dimension is badly needed. I never was in the services, nor do I come from a service family. I do know several military men and women, but not well enough to claim deep knowledge of the culture. I am glad, if a bit rueful at being naive, to have been corrected.

Maybee, I'm also obliged for your heart reference. What CNN did to either Bush is atrocious.

Chaco, I have sent you a message to what (I hope) is your email address. It does contain palm fronds, olive branches, and rose petals, not poison ivy, thistles, or blackberry vines. Let me know if you received it.

[Ann]

Welcome, Joan:

We all have a feeling of rage at what is happening to our country. Don't go away.

Anyways, just in time, our Sara tweets: Rush Limbaugh: Pelosi a Liiar, Should Go to Jail (Video)

Don't feel alone. Rage can be good.

[clarice]

Gregory, verner's a "she"/