Health Care That's Always A Scare

Pelosi and Obama get to 218 and more:

Sweeping Health Care Plan Passes House

By CARL HULSE and ROBERT PEAR

WASHINGTON — Handing President Obama a hard-fought victory, the House narrowly approved a sweeping overhaul of the nation’s health care system on Saturday night, advancing legislation that Democrats said could stand as their defining social policy achievement.

After a daylong clash with Republicans over what has been a Democratic goal for decades, lawmakers voted 220 to 215 to approve a plan that would cost $1.1 trillion over 10 years. Democrats said the legislation would provide overdue relief to Americans struggling to buy or hold on to health insurance.

That $1.1 trillion cost figure has been cosmetically managed by Ms. Pelosi - most of the spending does not even commence until 2013, although tax provisions begin in 2011, per the CBO.

As one example, there is the "doctor fix", which undoes a previous cosmetic attempt at cost control by eliminating some cuts in the Medicare reimbursement rate.  That is another $200 billion or more which the Times overlooks.

They told me that if I voted or McCain then women would have less access to abortion.  And they were right!

A critical turning point was the decision by Ms. Pelosi late Friday night to allow anti-abortion Democrats to try to tighten restrictions on coverage for the procedure under any insurance plan that receives federal money. That concession eased a threat by some Democrats to abandon the bill, but also left Democrats who support abortion rights facing a choice between backing a provision they bitterly opposed or scuttling the bill. The new abortion controls were added to the measure on a vote of 240 to 194.

The Time buries that in the twentieth paragraph so as not to vex their progressive readership on a lovely Sunday morning.  But progressives are vexed anyway, so its Mission Unaccomplished.

John Dingell made the case for expanded research into Alzheimer's drugs for those of us worried about losing our memories:

“Today’s may be a tough vote, but it was in 1935 when we passed Social Security,” Representative John Dingell, Democrat of Michigan and the dean of the House, said as the debate drew to a close late Saturday.

Do tell.  With 432 Representatives voting, Social Security passed the House in April 1935 by 372 to 33 (with 25 of Obama's predecessors voting present); the critical kabuki vote to kick the bill back to committee failed with only 149 in favor and 253 opposed.  Dingell was eight years old at the time; his father took the "tough" vote, so by "we" he is presumaby referring to the fact that he holds a hereditary seat.

The Times reporters are apparently overcome by tedium as they study the bill:

The House legislation, running almost 2,000 pages, would require most Americans to obtain health insurance or face penalties — an approach Republicans compared to government oppression.

Those wacky Republicans!  Of course, whether or not it is oppression would depend a little bit on the penalties, yes?  So what are they?  Again, the Times shields us from any possible vexation, so I turn to Dave Helling of the Kansas City Star:

Would I have to have health insurance?

Yes, or pay a penalty of 2.5 percent of your income. Hardship and religious waivers would be available, and some very low-wage earners would be exempt. The requirement would begin in 2013.

People who don’t get insurance and don’t pay the penalty face fines and possibly jail time.

Those penalties won't affect the long-term unemployed, who are heavily subsidized in any case.  However, someone who works from January to June and is then laid off had better arrange for insurance - over the tax year, the person will show plenty of income, even if take-home cash flow is scarce from July to December.  This person's actual income in the second half of the year may be zero, but if they don't have insurance they will owe a  2.5% penalty on their earnings from January to June.

Does that sound like a tax on the middle class?  Hey, it's for our own good.

And is the House bill a job-killer?  Well, it is paid for by a tax on small businesses and a new "pay or play" payroll tax, so it won't help.  Steven Pearlstein explains why it might be sorta kinda neutral; I like this best:

Economists agree that in the long run, however, the increased cost for employee health benefits would be passed on to the employees themselves in the form of lower wages and salaries. That's what happened economy-wide in recent decades, as average wages stagnated while the cost of health insurance skyrocketed. If the same holds true for small businesses, then requiring them to provide health insurance should result in no job loss at all.

In other words, the payroll tax will simply come out of what employees would otherwise have earned.  Well, fine, but would that count as a middle class tax hike?  It's for our own good!

THAT'S NOT AN EMPTY SUIT, IT'S THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, or, OBAMA STILL RELEVANT!  The Times includes this oddly unsettling attempt at reassurance:

Lawmakers credited Mr. Obama with converting a final few holdouts during his appearance at a closed-door meeting with Democrats just hours before the vote. Democratic officials said that Mr. Obama’s conversation Saturday with Representative Michael H. Michaud, Democrat of Maine, was crucial in winning one final vote.

C'mon, we aren't talking about a mad dash to Copenhagen here - this is the newly elected Democratic President twisting arms within his own party for votes on the centerpiece of his domestic agenda.  And that arm-twisting was good for "a final few holdouts", with only one example on offer?

How does leaking this help the President, especially if it is true?

Comments

[peter]

And now we have to rely on the dunces in the Senate to protect us from a socialist takeover of one-sixth of the economy. Heaven help us.

[Porchlight]

The crazy thing is that regular people have no idea what is in this bill. Ask a guy on the street and if he supports it, he'll tell you that it means everyone will have free health insurance courtesy of the government.

[anduril]

The bar will be set much higher in the Senate--60%. Opposition to procedural flim-flammery may also be stronger. The House debate was basically Dems arguing among themselves about who HAD to vote for it and who DIDN'T have to.

The dynamics of Senate races--state-wide votes--are quite different from those in House races, which are in (often) gerrymandered districts. Senators in any state where significant percentages oppose this obscenity--but especially in Red states--will be under considerable pressure.

There is definitely hope.

[Sue]

There is definitely hope.

Very little.

[jimmyk]

The bar will be set much higher in the Senate--60%.

Doesn't the misnamed "reconciliation" allow them to bypass the 60% requirement? They've shown they stop at nothing to ram this down our throats.

[Rick Ballard]

Here are the Dem Senators facing re-election in '10:

Bayh, Evan
Bennet, Michael
Boxer, Barbara
Burris, Roland
Dodd, Chris
Dorgan, Byron
Feingold, Russ
Inouye, Daniel
Leahy, Patrick
Lincoln, Blanche
Mikulski, Barbara
Murray, Patty
Reid, Harry
Schumer, Charles
Specter, Arlen
Wyden, Ron

I count Bayh, Bennett, Dorgan, Lincoln, Specter and Wyden as being susceptible to strong constituent pressure. (Dodd, Boxer, Burris, Murray and Reid are going to have tough elections but are not susceptible to reason, let alone pressure).

[anduril]

Goodwin, at NYP, has good analysis of that recent Gallup poll:

Analyzing the poll, Gallup editor Lydia Saad writes that only 48 percent of the 1,521 adults surveyed in mid-October say Obama has kept his campaign promises, a sharp decline from the 65 percent who felt that way in April.

She calls this a "re-evaluation of Obama's ideological orientation" and says it is a "fundamental indicator" of his falling approval ratings.

The poll, which didn't track specific policies, leaves little room for doubt, with 48 percent also saying Obama "has not" kept his promises. Only 4 percent were undecided.

Although the poll's 55 percent personal approval rating is higher than other firms', most of which are closer to 50 percent, it marks a major decline from Gallup's 78 percent when Obama took office.

One telling fact is that Obama has lost ground with every group except those who self-identify as liberal Democrats. Moderate and conservative Dems, along with independents and Republicans, are registering complaints. In that sense, it is unanimous he has turned left.

And this poll was taken before the events of the last few days.

He also has an excellent tag line:

"[Radical Islam is] a problem we can't solve until we face it."

[E. Nigma]

Yes.
The magic 60% number is only the old cloture rule. Remember a few years ago when the Republicans were considering the 'nuclear option' in the Senate, to bypass cloture and approve appointed judges held up in committee?
It won't be called the 'nuclear option' now, though. Something warmer and fuzzier.

There is practically no hope. Even regaining a Republican majority in 2010 (har! har! har!) cannot reverse this if Obama can veto any modifying legislation.

I was particularly repelled by the smarminess of the Democrats last night after the vote. Such caring induhviduals.

"A Republic, if you can keep it." - Benjamin Franklin.

Well, look around, and remember this. The Republic is about to disappear.

[anduril]

De Tocqueville said something like: the American Republic will last until politicians learn that they can bribe the people. And that has happened when you have nearly half paying no taxes. Not that I'm a fan of taxation, but it's terribly unhealthy for a republic when you have half the country voting to be supported by the other half.

[Porchlight]

anduril,

One half works for a living, the other half votes for a living.

[anduril]

The problem of a dumb-ass electorate is difficult to get around. We voted for a Marxist, plain and simple. Yes, Bush was a moron who played a major part in bringing our economy to this pass, yes, the MSM colluded against the American people, but the facts were there for all to see.

P.S. Please don't lecture me on the Democrat legislation that paved the way for this melt down. Bush supported the housing bubble and also supported the weak dollar policy that Obama is continuing, and Republicans supported the repeal of Glass-Steagall. Our "elites" have all betrayed us. Now it's time for ordinary Americans to get educated about what happened and why, and start proselytizing their fellow Americans, one at a time.

[anduril]

Yes, Porchlight, and then there are the liberal knuckleheads who tip the balance.

[anduril]

P.P.S. In calling Bush a "moron" I do not deny that he is, as far as I can judge, a decent and honorable man. But he made big, big mistakes and was overcome with hubris. The notion that he had "redefined the brand," for example. The notion that he could ignore the rise of ACORN and related groups specializing in vote fraud, and buy off minorities with cheap mortgages.

Congress will never lead. The institutional dynamics are such that irresponsibility is what gets rewarded. Bush failed to lead the Congress when he had the majority.

[anduril]

Does anyone here not know that I'm Catholic?

That said, here's a link to Cao's website - I don't have the heart to paste it in:

Cao

[narciso]

We figured you are Catholic, you're also rather annoying you know that. The CRA revisions happened long before he became President, he did try to correct the subprime problem, but the congress was mostly bought off, by Fannie & Freddie, which was run by Democrats. Most people that voted against him, was because they believed that hardline caricature

[Sue]

According to Representative Earl Blumenauer of Oregon, who supports the health care bill, the president asked, “Does anybody think that the teabag, anti-government people are going to support them if they bring down health care? All it will do is confuse and dispirit” Democratic voters “and it will encourage the extremists.”

From our bipartisan president. Ain't that special?

[narciso]

So says the author of the 'death panels' in HR 3200

[Blame Wall Street and the Dems for the economy.]

Anduril, think of Bush as Gulliver, tied down by men much smaller than himself, and still executing his duty with nary a mistep. It was an amazing performance really, but just not perfect.
========================

[Janet]

My local paper (WaPo) calls me a bigot.
My Representative (Moran) calls me the taliban.
My President calls me a teabag, anti-government extremist.

...and all me and my family do is pay our taxes, obey the law, financially take care of our own children who we have raised to be honorable citizens, and give to charities. Not sure what we are doing wrong that makes the left hate us so.

[It's the Democrats' fault. They've flipped. The title is now ironic.]

Also, Bush wasn't ignoring ACORN; look what Schumer had to do to stop his admin's attempt to preserve the integrity of the voting process.
===============================

[narciso]

I/ve been posting from a blackberry and now a laptop, anybody what do to do with a virus
that prevents me from logging on, but also
blocks me from getting rid of it, as well

[Sue]

Sec. 1302 (pp. 672-692) moves Medicare from a fee-for-service payment system, in which patients choose which doctors to see and doctors are paid for each service they provide, toward what’s called a “medical home.”

The medical home is this decade’s version of HMO-restrictions on care. A primary-care provider manages access to costly specialists and diagnostic tests for a flat monthly fee. The bill specifies that patients may have to settle for a nurse practitioner rather than a physician as the primary-care provider. Medical homes begin with demonstration projects, but the HHS secretary is authorized to “disseminate this approach rapidly on a national basis.”

Death panels?

[Extraneus]

If they go with reconciliation, they'll be able to protect nine of those vulnerable Dems by allowing them to vote against the bill and still get to 50.

[E. Nigma]

Janet,
You exist. Your very existence is a refutation of the collectivist tenents that the WaPo, Moran and Obama support.

They expect you to continue to sacrifice yourself to their needs.

"From each according to their abilities, to each according to their needs."
Did you think they were just kidding? Did you think this was just a silly, empty slogan? It summarizes the corrupt intellectual synthesis of every tyranny that man has ever created to enslave other men.

Then they expect you to die; but not until they can extract the last value from your life so they can continue theirs.

[Rick Ballard]

They have to have all 60 for cloture - if McCain or Graham or a similiar squish doesn't cave. The bill is a job killer and the Commie in Chief might want to have someone explain what happened the last time Tea Partys were popular.

FWIW - Tom Daschle was Majority Leader from from '01-'03 (that's the position Harry Reid assumed in '07). Neither of them are noted for having accepted leadership from the opposition party.

[Gmax]

Dont forget that Lieberman is a no, and so I think would be Byrd. Either he is too sick to vote, or parliamentarian that he is, I would have to think he would vote no on obliterating cloture.

I think they have a hard row to hoe, and they just paint targets on the backs of about 40 or more Dem reps.

Actions have consequences, and my read of VA and NJ ( a purple and blue state ) is that the likely voters in 2010 are in no mood for their representatives to active like they dont have to listen to their constituents.

[jimmyk]

It won't be called the 'nuclear option' now, though. Something warmer and fuzzier.

Possible new names:

The "mom's apple pie option"
The "American Dream option"
The "new bipartisanship"
The "transcendent path"
The "cure for gridlock"

[Gmax]

Narciso boot in safe mode download Malwarebytes and run it. It will remove most viruses of that kind.

Good luck.

[narciso]

And on the military front, we see how General Casey is widely becoming the Westmoreland of this campaign,

[narciso]

No, even in safemode, I can't log on to get malwarebytes

[Soylent Red]

Message to Hit and Run:

Your email address has been hijacked by spammers.

[narciso]

How do I get rid of that problem

[hit and run]

Your email address has been hijacked by spammers.

Oh,crap. Sorry about that.

[matt]

lawyer up. There is no way this bill is constitutional.

[hit and run]

My other laptop got a virus and I've been trying to get rid of it.

Silver linings, though ... now I know that porno dot org is less offensive than adult dot com.

I would never have known that otherwise.

Again,sorry for spamming those who were in my contact list. Hopefully that won't happen again.

[Sue]

Just noticed this from our dear leader: Not An Obama Approved Pundit. But The Day Is Young!

I hope the day stays young. If we lose you, we lose all hope.

[clarice]

It was an obvious spoof,Hit. I don't know how you deal with it. I'd just get a new addy and send it to all my correspondents BYMMV

[narciso]

Still hsven't been able to log on, on my desktop, without shutting down

[caro]

...the HHS secretary is authorized to “disseminate this approach rapidly on a national basis.

It seems like there is huge discretion granted to the sec of HHS. Even to determining what private insurance policies must cover. (I know, that is while we still have them) If a new conservative HHS head comes in in 2012 and mandates a whole different set of criteria for policies, such as simple catastriphic, buy across state lines, etc. what will happen? Or if they refuse to roll out any more "medical homes."

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

“Does anybody think that the teabag, anti-government people are going to support them if they bring down health care? All it will do is confuse and dispirit” Democratic voters “and it will encourage the extremists.”

So the President said: "Does anybody think that the c*cks*cker, anti-government people are going to support them if they bring down health care?

I am starting to get more than angry at these (&(^*%*& calling me such a nasty name. And now the president? I overlooked it at first because I figured they were doing it out of ignorance, but now it is clear that every "teabagger" reference is deliberate and meant to say exactly what its slang means. Would the President or Chrissy Matthews or any of their minions react well to me calling their mother, their wife, their daughter, their sister a c*cks*cker? Well my son isn't too happy and neither am I.

[Rick Ballard]

Caro,

Don't forget the power of the purse when the Dems are thrown out in '10. Ear Leader can veto 'til he pops but he doesn't write the budget. That assumes that cloture is achieved, of course. IMO, the VA, NJ results, especially among independents, make that fairly unlikely.

[mockmook]

narcisco,

You may have to download the anti-malware program on another computer and then copy it to your infected computer using a CD or DVD.

But, sometimes the malware is so embedded, it may be more efficient to completely reformat your drives and re-install Windows and your other software.

If that is the only option, save all your data and emails first (you may want to save things like bookmarks, also).

Keep your firewalls at maximum protection until you get all your anti-virus/anti-malware software up and running (with updates).

Be sure to scan that saved data for viruses before copying it back to your uninfected computer.

Good luck

[jimmyk]

If the same holds true for small businesses, then requiring them to provide health insurance should result in no job loss at all.

That assumes small businesses can offer insurance at the same cost as large businesses, which is almost certainly false. For example, many large businesses self-insure, and just use the "insurance providers" to administer their plans. That's not an option for small businesses.

[Captain Hate]

now it is clear that every "teabagger" reference is deliberate and meant to say exactly what its slang means.

Welcome to Realityville. Did you think the Jug-eared punk was inadvertently being caught on camera giving the finger to Hillary and McCain? Or that "lipstick on a pig" was just a phrase that wasn't to be taken literally? This egomaniacal putz is devoid of any trace of human decency which has only begun to impact our way of life.

[Fresh Air]

Not sure what we are doing wrong that makes the left hate us so.

Janet--

This piece by Matthew Continetti is superb. It explains the whole thing. We conservatives are now the "rabble," just as Andrew Jackson's supporters were. We're too ill-informed and unwashed to know what's best for us.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

All You Need to Know About AARP's Support of Obamacare

Via the AP:

 "Democrats lined up a range of outside groups behind their legislation, none more important than the AARP, whose support promises political cover against the cuts to Medicare in next year's congressional elections."

 "Cover"? How can AARP provide "cover" for cuts it hitherto swore to protect?

 Easy, payoff.

The  AARP will receive millions from healthcare reform as "kickbacks"  in return for that "cover" when Obamacare begins to slice and dice medicare.

"AARP revenues show how big its insurance business is.

 Last year, the group collected $222 million in royalties from UnitedHealthcare, which provides most of the health insurance marketed under the AARP brand. That figure is almost as much as AARP collected in dues from its members.

 But David Mathis, AARP senior vice president for health services, says the organization offers what its members need to have, not what corporate partners want to sell.

 "They come into the relationship knowing where that is, even though they may not agree with us and we don't always agree with them," Mathis says. "

Everybody's eyes were wide open when we entered this relationship."

 Still, questions about the organization's finances have been raising eyebrows for years. And America's two main parties take turns being angry at AARP.

 Speaking in 1995, Republican Sen. Alan Simpson said, "AARP has drifted considerably from any possible description of a nonprofit, quote, organization."

[Katherine]

"Not sure what we are doing wrong that makes the left hate us so."

Janet, you answer your own question:

"...and all me and my family do is pay our taxes, obey the law, financially take care of our own children who we have raised to be honorable citizens, and give to charities."

You are a modern day kulak. Therefore you need to be eliminated.

[narciso]

Thanks mookmook and gmax for the advice. One
thinks this is as Capt. says, there every gesture is indicative of what they really believe. This was certainly true during the campaign, btw Owen's actions confirmed what
Rush stated maybe a little too frankly the day before. As one recalls, Jackson, had the last laugh

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

OT for this thread, but just a reminder:

Bush in December 2001 and it's totally indicative of the rhetoric he used throughout his presidency when discussing terrorism.

Right after the attacks I went to a mosque to send a signal that the war against terror has nothing to do with the Muslim faith. It has everything to do with evil, evil people. What you can do to help America beyond the economy is to remind people that regardless of our religious beliefs, we're all, first and foremost, Americans.

[Sue]

Oh gawd! The One is about to speak, in the Rose Garden. I thought he went to Camp David? I can't stand watching or listening to this fool.

[Rick Ballard]

Narciso,

Teddy Roosevelt actually implemented quite a bit of what Bryan's followers wanted as well. I'm no fan of populism but I'll certainly be cheering for Palin should she seek the nomination. She can take the center and that is where the action is going to be.

There is a much better than even chance that the Wall Street banksters are going to pay heavily for their indiscretions in the next year. I hope she gets out in front on the clamor to get a goodly number of them in jail as quickly as possible. As firm Friends of Fascism they deserve nothing less.

[MarkJ]

Thinking about John Dingell (D-Alzheimer's) makes me pine for more youthful, open-minded, and dynamic legislators....

like, oh maybe, delegates to the Supreme Soviet.

[caro]

Rick, thanks for that reminder and I know you are right. And it is good to have you back with us.

Fresh, that was a great article!

[Old Lurker]

Watching this is like an out of body experience. If they pass this thing, the economy for our kids and grandkids is cooked.

Since we know Graham, Snow, Collins and McCain are going to flip, the Senate will huff and puff and pretend to "scale back" the House bill but that will only be cosmetics around the edges. Once passed, no pressure in 2010 will create the groundswell to undo the mess, and this new entitlement will so radically alter the sense of personal responsibility that built this country that the future will be bleak. So Franklin was right in that quote about a republic as you as you can keep it. We are throwing it away before our very eyes.

PS. This gloomy note is being written from our Ritz Carlton balcony overlooking Dana Point, San Clemente CA where dinner last night was filled with talk about how CA killed the goose that had created this paradise, and how the guess is that how goes California, so goes the country.

I am not in a good mood this morning. And it is not a hangover, honest.

[narciso]

She's more T.R. thsn Bryan, the frontier spirit the opposition to public corruption,
the belief in American exceptionalism, and if need by, the Great White Fleet. Now,
inflating the value of silver, that's the kind of thing that Obama would do. But the latter was the tool of the bankers or vice versa, I can't tell anymore. McCain/
McKinley, the cautious old soldier, there's more than a passing resemblance there. No one would ever pick a Biden for anything unless they seriously lost a card game.

[caro]

The next big item to market along with pikes and pitchforks will be 'coonskin hats.

[BarbieJay]

And the Once ends his presser with "Thank you very much", too morally vacant and too uncaring of our Judeo-Christian heritage to utter "God bless America."

Last night was this century's Saturday Night Massacre. They murdered Lady Liberty. And the Once has the crass audacity to tell us today from the Rose Garden, how "historic" was this abominable bill-voting act, plotted and executed in our United States House of Representatives.

I've never been one to hate another human being, but BHO is teaching me how this hideous phenomena incubates and grows...

[Old Lurker]

bowie knives, Caro, bowie knives

[caro]

Ha, OL, you got that right, too.

[Frau Ernst]

Good luck, narciso. Having your computer(s) under alien control is no laughing matter. Mine was seized yesterday morning and had to be purged. It was difficult. As last resort, apply the Leroy Jethro Gibbs approach: stomp the hell out of the device.

Janet, your problem is that you do not belong to any of the democrat party's collection of special interest groups. There is nothing they can buy you with.

[Frau Ernst]

Katherine -"You are a modern day kulak. Therefore you need to be eliminated."
Yes, but as long as possible you will be milked dry for taxes.

[narciso]

I had a beer last night, but that was to cover the hangover, that I felt after the vore. It's been a weird week, I get a flu
(regular) my car stalls, now I get a bug
on my desktop, around the top of my hangover

[clarice]

Sorry,narciso..but if bad luck comes in threes, you're due for an uptick.

[Gmax]

Narciso

You need a rescue disk. It will boot your computer off the A: drive, and will then run the virus scan and removal routines. I assume you have another machine, just do a search for "rescue disk" and you will find several freeware sites that should fix your issue.

Sucks though, but it happens to even the diligent occasionally.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

There is conspiracy afoot. I have not contracted a computer virus...yet, but not for want of trying. Day before yesterday, I had over 2300 spam emails and about 1 in 10 were being flagged by my Norton Anti-Virus as being infected. There is someone or group out there putting on a virus push.

[Barbara]

Email from my sister yesterday -

This cartoon is timeless and is just as true today as it was in 1948! Perhaps more so.

Look at this: 1948 Cartoon: Make Mine Freedom

[anduril]

Good luck, narciso. Having your computer(s) under alien control is no laughing matter.

Yeah, get that fixed and then start working on your head.

BTW, you might consider wiping your HD and installing some version of Linux. Not only will you have a secure system, but you won't be contributing to the favorite causes of the ultra liberal Bill Gates.

[jean]

I had some virus stuff on both my computers in the past week.My son asked "where are you going on this thing".I only go to the same sites I've gone to for years.I would suspect JOMers go to some of the same sites.I figured it came from one of my usual sites.Wish I could figure out which one and notify them.Close as I can get is REDSTATE

[Frau Ernst]

Sara - it's the same someone/group swamping a site with trolls when a certain topic comes up. It has happened here, and I guess you saw it at Belmont Club recently. Axelturf's flying monkey army is monitoring the intertubes. Well, I'll be in good company if it comes to a roundup.

As a Californian, I share OL's somber mood. N

[anduril]

Disinformation afoot?

I was near despair this morning when I read in my local paper:

Including the Stupak provision won Democrats support from the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, which urged Catholics to "lend their full-throated support" to the Democrats' health care bill.

Did some googling and came up with this:

USCCB Spokesman: "Definitely Not True" that Bishops Support Bill As it Stands
Contradicts Politico report, "Bishops Endorse the Bill"

lifesitenews

The USCCB position, from their site, is this:

* a truly universal health policy with respect for human life and dignity
* access for all with a special concern for the poor and inclusion of immigrants
* pursuing the common good and preserving pluralism including freedom of conscience and variety of options
* restraining costs and applying them equitably across the spectrum of payers

UPDATE: Update (1:30pm EST): Politico Live Pulse has changed its headline to "Bishops Endorse the Amendment."

I knew it couldn't be true that the bishops were endorsing a bill that nobody understands and that involves complex issues of taxation and debt.

[anduril]

narciso: We figured you are Catholic, you're also rather annoying you know that.

Nevertheless, I'm giving you my best advice: get Linux. It's not true that it happens to even the diligent occasionally. It has never happened to me, and I use nothing but the standard, out of the box security programs. And, again, you get the satisfaction of knowing that you're no longer contributing to Gates' radical causes. Hope that's not too annoying for you.

[Dave (in MA)]

MASSACHUSETTS

Democrats -- Capuano, Y; Delahunt, Y; Frank, Y; Lynch, Y; Markey, Y; McGovern, Y; Neal, Y; Olver, Y; Tierney, Y; Tsongas, Y.

My fellow MA residents are idiots.

[clarice]

Gotta have a PUK fix for the day--from the VIMH vintage college..

Ivy League Economists",which means they have to work in academia because they are not good enough to be head croupier at Goldman Sachs.

Posted by: PeterUK July 07, 2009 at 10:35 AM

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

I don't think the viruses are coming from any blog posts/comments. Typepad (Six Apart) has very good virus software to protect its own servers and therefore you. Every virus my Norton caught this week and there were a couple hundred, all came in thru emails. Be sure you have your virus software set to scan your email in addition to your system scans.

[clarice]

From Doug Ross:

http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2009/11/how-pelosicare-will-bankrupt-health.html

How PelosiCare's Price Controls Will Bankrupt Health Insurers Inside A Year

Buried deep inside the 2,200 pages of H.R. 3962 ("The Affordable Health Care for America Act", A.K.A. "PelosiCare") is a section that mandates the profit margins for health insurers.

‘SEC. 2714. ENSURING VALUE AND LOWER PREMIUMS.

‘(a) In General- Each health insurance issuer that offers health insurance coverage in the small or large group market shall provide that for any plan year in which the coverage has a medical loss ratio below a level specified by the Secretary (but not less than 85 percent), the issuer shall provide in a manner specified by the Secretary for rebates to enrollees of the amount by which the issuer’s medical loss ratio is less than the level so specified.

No company has ever survived with a loss ratio approaching 85%.

What exactly is a 'loss ratio'?

Put simply, it is the ratio of the claims paid by an insurance company to the premiums collected. Usually the ratio is calculated on a yearly basis. And, in the context of legislation, loss ratios are price controls.

A 2008 document by the Council for Affordable Health Insurance describes state experiences with mandated loss ratios.

While many states have implemented loss-ratio requirements, few have ever tried loss ratios at or above 70 percent... states hope[d] that by squeezing down the [insurers'] administrative costs... insurance [would] become more affordable and more accessible. However, the experience of other states... provides little hope for success.

An 85% loss ratio, as mandated by PelosiCare, would bankrupt insurers within a year. No mandated loss ratio has ever come close to 85%.

Why would a loss ratio that permits only a 15% administrative margin for insurers cause companies to fail? Consider that the administrative expenses include collecting premiums; processing and paying claims; monitoring patient care; staffing customer service functions; paying costs to state and federal regulators; paying sales agents; and general overhead (rent, power, heat, light); etc.

I repeat: No company has ever survived with a loss ratio approaching 85%.

A loss ratio of 85% will bankrupt health insurers in less than a year

If you work for a health insurer, if your business is a supplier to a health insurer, or if you are customer or simply a shareholder, say goodbye to the private health insurance industry.

So, no, you won't get to keep your private insurance plan. That's guaranteed under H.R. 3962.

Permalink

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

I have never been infected with a computer virus in 23 years of online computing (knock on wood). I have my Norton Anti-Virus do a Quick Scan every day in the wee hours of the morning, and a full system scan once a week. It scans every incoming and outgoing email as well as all files and programs. It checks for scamware. And I back up my new files on a daily basis using Norton's backup that allows me to backup my files off site on a daily, weekly or monthly basis. And even though Norton scans for scamware, I also run Ad-aware for extra safety.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

Oops, hit send too soon. I was going to say that my son was always picking up viruses on his laptop. He only uses AOL and accesses the Internet thru them as well. 90% of his online activity is spent on sports sites, so I was blaming them, but I wouldn't swear that his problems didn't come from a few porn sites. I never asked him, don't think I want to know.

[centralcal]

"As a Californian, I share OL's somber mood."

Amen, Frau!

[anduril]

Sara, what kind of online computing were you doing in 1986?

[glasater]

Breitbart is tweeting:

State Worker Beat Up At SEIU Meeting

A state worker is recovering after a bloody brawl at a union hall. He says members of the local SEIU 1000 beat him up and sent him to the hospital all because he wanted to expose allegedl corruption within the union. ......

[anduril]

via FR:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2381604/posts

FBI foils LeT plan to carry out major terror attack in India
Hindustan Times ^ | 10/27/09 | Lalit-K-Jha

FBI foils LeT plan to carry out major terror attack in India

Pakistan-based terror group Lashkar-e-Taiba was planning to use an American national to carry out a major terrorist attack in India, US investigating authorities said on Tuesday.

The man, identified as David Coleman Headley, was arrested early this month by FBI's Joint Terrorism Task Force at O'Hare International Airport before boarding a flight to Philadelphia, intending to travel on to Pakistan.

[centralcal]

glasater: SEIU in California are very thuggish. One of the reasons I am very anti-unions.

[jean]

Sara. I've only had one virus ever.Knew what caused it .This time both computers got infected.Not from e-mails.Just thought it was weird as I went only to the same sites I always go to.Can't blame sports sites or porn in my case.

[anduril]

also via FR, ultimately from NPR via jihadwatch:

Fort Hood Shooter Taught Koran When He Was Supposed to Be Giving a Medical Lecture

jihadwatch.org ^ | November 7, 2009 | staff

Here is yet another indication that the Fort Hood massacre was a jihad carried out by Nidal Hasan. Hasan, an Army psychiatrist, was supposed to give a "grand round" -- a medical lecture. Instead, he treated medical personnel to a dawah session, trying to frighten them into Islam with threats of hell.

[centralcal]

anduril: I am Catholic, too. Thank you for the update on the USCCB.

[Fresh Air]

Clarice--

Not only can't you run an insurance company on an 85 percent loss ratio in good times, it gives you absolutely no margin if your investment portfolio goes down.

We have, without a doubt, the stupidest, most arrogant, out-of-touch and malevolent representatives in the history of the western world.

In all seriousness, I think we need three constitutional amendments. The first would repeal the Interstate Commerce Clause and replace it with something specifically limiting federal power. The second would eliminate gerrymandering by requiring computers to draw all House districts. The third would require a balanced budget based upon matching revenues and expenditures. While we're at it, we might as well term-limit the sonsofbitches.

[anduril]

centralcal, that really looks like liberal disinformation to me. the quote in my local paper was unattributed, as you can see, and i didn't find it elsewhere, as in the politico story that seems to have got it started. for the leading body of the largest single church in america to advocate "full throated" support for controversial legislation would have been a BIG story that demanded specific attribution. moreover, i believe the bishops as a group would have to vote on something like that. generally i'm quite wary of the usccb, but i know that they're usually more cautious than that.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

Tell me again about being tolerant, etc:

New British Play Features Jesus as Transsexual Woman

[anduril]

for those who may have missed it, here's a big editorial from the wsj re unemployment and government policy:

Washington and the Jobs Market

The chart is rather scary, in that it shows unemployment accelerating. Funny, after the initial reports re this latest rise I heard a reporter say that government analysts now concede that unemployment could reach 10.5% "next year." At the rate it's going, it'll crash through that level next month.

[Rocco]

I posted this on another thread but I'll post it here too. AVG anti-virus software is free and in the five years or so that I've been using it, I've yet to have any problems. The nice thing about AVG is it's a lot smaller than McAfee or Norton and uses a lot less of your system resources. For spyware I also use the free Spybot Search & Destroy and run it a couple of times a week.

[glasater]

Breitbart is tweeting:

State Worker Beat Up At SEIU Meeting

A state worker is recovering after a bloody brawl at a union hall. He says members of the local SEIU 1000 beat him up and sent him to the hospital all because he wanted to expose allegedl corruption within the union. ......

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

Anduril:

My first computer was a Tandy, no hard drive, one floopy drive, no memory. I had a 300 baud modem. I was a charter member of Compuserve and Delphi.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

NASCAR is racing at Texas Motor Speedway and they just delivered the Pace car by Chinook helicopter on to the racetrack. AWESOME!

[Fresh Air]

Anduril--

The disparity between the Household Survey and the U-3 was massive--over 300,000 more people out of work in the Household report. Keep in mind, with population growth we need at least 250,000 new jobs a month (IIRC) just to stay even. The U-3 data also report added (again IIRC) about 90,000 new jobs from the bogus "Birth/Death" model. New unemployment is probably already ticking 11 percent, with U-6 chronic jobless at nearly 20 percent.

The Mediacrats should be very afraid. Tack on the uncertainties of Crap & Charade and employers will be heading for their sub-basements next year.

On the consumer side, the housing market still stinks and isn't going to improve. Consumer credit continues to drop, while the banksters are charging up to 30 percent on revolving charges. Then we've got a nice stew of higher taxes to offset (natch) lower revenues at the state and county levels across the country (but especially in the Blue Hellholes, like Illinois and New York).

Batten down the hatches. It's going to get worse.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

Oh, and Anduril, I always forget, I was also active on the Undernet and bulletin boards that predated the social networking we have today.

[anduril]

amazing, sara! a true grizzled veteran--no disrespect intended. i didn't start till 1996/7, but now i know everything--to the annoyance of, well, just a few people.

[anduril]

sara, you predate algore!

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

TCU playing the National Anthem, flag flying at half mast. I'm already in tears. There's isn't supposed to be crying in NASCAR. Oh dear.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

Anduril: The amazing thing to me is that just in the last couple of months, thru Twitter and Facebook, I've reconnected with people from those early years that I haven't heard from in 15 years or more.

[anduril]

Fresh Air, i had to look up your acronym, IIRC. First definition was: Interactive Illinois Report Card. I moved on and found it--duh!

But thanks for the explication. Yes, I agree. I can't see how it won't get worse. The reports spoke of the unemployment rate "crashing through" the 10% level, as the WSJ chart shows. And I think this has to affect the Health Care debate, especially since we know the true costs are far higher.