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November 09, 2009


Jack is Back!

Casey is already setting the stage for the "better to be screwed than rude" strategy of protecting diversity in the forces. One way to bring them out of their closets is to let the gays serve and partner them up with Muslims. Hey, why not. We are an equal employment opportunity country and this is truly affirmative action on the part of the military.

OT: Headlines I wish I could see in American dailies.


Exactly--Casey and Panetta and Holder would be in my office this morning were I the C-in-C.(Of course, that would be the day after I had gone to Ft Hood to be with the survivors.) Maybe the S of S could handle the China trip..but heck I'm not The One.

More than the media (speak not of it for fear of a "backlash" by crazed Norwegian Americans with lutefisk dripping from their mouths) going to end up with egg on its face this time.


Have I mentioned how much I hate political correctness. One way or other it will destroy this country.


I think Hasan just destroyed p c in the military whether or not Casey and The One want that..Lieberman's conducting hearings on what and when people knew about Hasan and why they left him in place. The only way to stop this carp is to expose it--and when it is exposed, the fury and outrage will begin to cause its demise.

Watch for the blowback.

OK, may be intelligence community pushback.


PC = Death of the West

The Death of the Enlightenment.

bunky, the irony is that it is supposed to be enlightened thought.


Clarice: wasn't this carp exposed on 9/11?

Thomas Collins

We are once again a September 10th country. I wonder in which US city the mushroom cloud will have to appear to jolt us back into September 12th reality.


DOE: yeah enlightened, like looking at the clear blue sky when you're heading over a cliff.


It does beg the question, how many other potential 'sleeper agents' are in the military, and even the intelligence services. It may just be inertia, more often than not, Marion "Spike" Bowman, lived
up to his name, by not including the
"Phoenix Memo" in the distribution lists that comprise the sources for the PDB.



OK, so we're learning that our intelligence agencies (I take that to include the FBI) knew for months that Hasan was trying to get in touch with al Qaeda.

Think back to the aftermath of 9/11, when the common "wisdom" reviled the FBI for its "cop mentality", its cluelessness about true intelligence work. So here was the FBI apparently trying to track this guys activity in the hope of learning who his associates (if any) might be, learn about his/their techniques, maybe communication, tactics, finances, weapons, plans, etc. Great intelligence work, eh? And now we have this tragic ending.

I'm not blaming anyone here. It just illustrates how much more complicated reality is than ideas and the conventional "wisdom."

In reality shit sometimes happens. The intelligence agencies were doing what we wanted them to do, but they arent' omniscient. Now Congress gets to do some grandstanding. Again. As I've been saying the last view days, there are no institutional incentives for Congress to act responsibly. That's what we have a Chief Executive for--to prod them along. I'm not holding my breath right now, and I recommend that everyone else breathe normally, too.

The problem is not so much with our LE and Intelligence agency tactics, as with the policies that Congress and the courts have put in place (thanks to pressure from special interests, too) that make these situations possible.


Why didn't Obama connect the dots! Hmmm?

Uncle BigBad

Good point Bunky. For years our schools have been "valuing diversity," whatever that means. Diversity is a neutral characteristic overall. "Valuing diversity" is like valuing brown eyes or the orbit of Mercury.


UBD: agreed.

How about valuing America? How about valuing the unformed services and the men and women putting their lives limbs on the line 24/7?

How about not giving a sh#* what people think of us?


If 9/11 didn't destroy PC in this country, I'm sure this won't. To do that people need principled alternatives, and the bias in this country is against principle reflection on reality. Still, as DeLong argues, this may move us incrementally along toward some crisis point--which one may hope and pray won't be wasted.


The real question is why this guy was even still in the Army after the types of statements he was making going all the way back to his first days in the service. There is no way that someone can openly say it's OK to kill people because they are who they are, and this guy was saying it is ok to kill people who aren't muslim. Imagine if he had been a white guy from the south who talked about white power and argued that it was just fine to lynch blacks. Would he have been in the Army after saying that just once? Of course not. The system is supposed to treat people equally, not establish special rules for one group over another.


How about this, Ranger: the real question is why was this guy even in the country? Islam is the problem. Contrary to Bushie's views, it is not a religion of peace. Never has been, never will be. Homeland security starts at the borders.

Jack is Back!

"How about not giving a sh#* what people think of us?"


In memory of PUK, there is a soccer team in England called Millwall. They are infamous for having the nastiest, hooligan fans who like to light up cars after games and create real havoc in East London. Their motto which they sing en masse as they exit the game is, "They don't like us and we don't care."

Well, we are all Millwall fans now.


the real question is why was this guy even in the country?

Wasn't he born in the US? I know I read that somewhere.


It seems the esteemed Imam Awlaki, gave his own shout out, to Effendi Hasan, in the LUN

Uncle BigBad

Try a thought experiment: Imagine that the 9/11 bombers had been stopped at the last minute. How many people in our country would be able to imagine the scale of the disaster that was averted?


ABC is going to do another interview with Obama. They are soliciting questions at Jake Tapper's blog. The following was submitted by a poster there:

"The American public would like for you to resign. Which day would work better for you, today or tomorrow?"

I love it.


Sarah Palin will be in Plano Texas signing books on December 4th.

Who else but Jooz?  See, it's easy.

Alright, how's this little scenario. The real Major was an attempt by our intelligence agencies to infiltrate al-Qaeda. The terrorists caught on to the subterfuge and blew it up with a body double. The real Major's whereabouts are unknown, except to the triple agents who pulled this one off.


the real question is why was this guy even in the country?

As Sue said, I'm pretty sure he was born here.
Do you mean, why didn't he choose to leave?

Captain Hate

Imagine that the 9/11 bombers had been stopped at the last minute. How many people in our country would be able to imagine the scale of the disaster that was averted?

Very few and they'd have been derided as bigots by the smart people like Flathead Friedman, Bathtub Boy, Tweety and Madcow. How many times has ABC rebroadcast the show about the run-up to 9/11 based on the excellent "The Looming Tower" that Slick blew a gasket about on FNS? Is it even available on DVD?

I Won

We may never know the precise reason why Hason tried to contact al-Qaeda. It is important not to jump to conclusions. It may turn out to be that Hason was simply looking for someone who could relate to his feelings of isolation, to his feelings of being estranged for his otherness. I know what that's like.

It isn't Army doctors clearing people for overseas work and seeing them upon their return..

A root problem is that he was no longer a volunteer in a volunteer Army. He had these commitments, you see, and frankly the Army is not getting a whole lot of volunteer doctors.


You know it's like we should just point at the Times, and
laugh, it would just save time, in the LUN


Steyn (NRO) has it just right:

Nuts [Mark Steyn]

For the purposes of argument, let's accept the media's insistence that Major Hasan is a lone crazy.

So who's nuttier?

The guy who gives a lecture to other military doctors in which he says non-Muslims should be beheaded and have boiling oil poured down their throats?

Or the guys who say "Hey, let's have this fellow counsel our traumatized veterans and then promote him to major and put him on a Homeland Security panel?

Or the Army Chief of Staff who thinks the priority should be to celebrate diversity, even unto death?

Or the Secretary of Homeland Security who warns that the principal threat we face now is an outbreak of Islamophobia?

Or the president who says we cannot "fully know" why Major Hasan did what he did, so why trouble ourselves any further?

Or the columnist who, when a man hands out copies of the Koran before gunning down his victims while yelling "Allahu akbar," says you're racist if you bring up his religion?

Or his media colleagues who put Americans in the same position as East Germans twenty years ago of having to get hold of a foreign newspaper to find out what's going on?

General Casey has a point: An army that lets you check either the "home team" or "enemy" box according to taste is certainly diverse. But the logic in the remarks of Secretary Napolitano and others is that the real problem is that most Americans are knuckledragging bigots just waiting to go bananas. As Melanie Phillips wrote in her book Londonistan:

Minority-rights doctrine has produced a moral inversion, in which those doing wrong are excused if they belong to a 'victim' group, while those at the receiving end of their behaviour are blamed simply because they belong to the 'oppressive' majority.

To the injury of November 5, we add the insults of American officialdom and their poodle media. In a nutshell:

The real enemy — in the sense of the most important enemy — isn’t a bunch of flea-bitten jihadis sitting in a cave somewhere. It’s Western civilization’s craziness. We are setting our hair on fire and putting it out with a hammer.

11/09 10:13 AMShare

Rick Ballard

From Narciso's link:

Nidal Hassan [sic] is a hero. He is a man of conscience who could not bear living the contradiction of being a Muslim and serving in an army that is fighting against his own people. This is a contradiction that many Muslims brush aside and just pretend that it doesn’t exist. Any decent Muslim cannot live, understanding properly his duties towards his Creator and his fellow Muslims, and yet serve as a US soldier. The US is leading the war against terrorism which in reality is a war against Islam. Its army is directly invading two Muslim countries and indirectly occupying the rest through its stooges.

Nidal opened fire on soldiers who were on their way to be deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan. How can there be any dispute about the virtue of what he has done? In fact the only way a Muslim could Islamically justify serving as a soldier in the US army is if his intention is to follow the footsteps of men like Nidal.

The heroic act of brother Nidal also shows the dilemma of the Muslim American community. Increasingly they are being cornered into taking stances that would either make them betray Islam or betray their nation. Many amongst them are choosing the former. The Muslim organizations in America came out in a pitiful chorus condemning Nidal’s operation.The fact that fighting against the US army is an Islamic duty today cannot be disputed. No scholar with a grain of Islamic knowledge can defy the clear cut proofs that Muslims today have the right -rather the duty- to fight against American tyranny. Nidal has killed soldiers who were about to be deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan in order to kill Muslims. The American Muslims who condemned his actions have committed treason against the Muslim Ummah and have fallen into hypocrisy.

Some thought might be given to the President's spiritual leader - "Chickens - Goddamn Akerikkka" Wright as we mullah this over. Is there really an unbridgeable chasm between Rev. 'Chickens' Wright and Imam al-Awhacky? After all, Chickens has honored Calypso Louis as an honorable man - perhaps he could mediate any differences?


Speaking of Melanie Phillips in the LUN


funny some of the comments from other Muslim American soldiers. They are Americans first, and Muslims second.

A Muslim Marine in the NYT compared it to the Civil War when brother fought against brother. I just wish Hollywood and the government got that subtle distinction and tailored the message.

VOA was very effective and very persuasive of 40 years and it all seems to have gone to waste.If the idiots in charge ever read McLuhan or looked back at WW II, perhaps they might get a clue.

There a 600,000,000 Muslims lapping up the jihadi line of BS as they blow their own brethren up. then again, the Muslim ability to believe anything but the truth does stand in the way.

And all for the sake of getting higher ratings for their hate-filled radio broadcasts, too, doncha know?

How do we know that Mark Steyn or Rush Limbaugh or someone didn't FRAME the most convenient Muslim they could find.


Jack: I'm getting the T-shirt!



Adam Gadahn was one thing; we'll never see him again. Hasan may yet live.

What about those Americans who agree with Hasan? (Bullshit. Don't tell me they don't. Another reason nobody blew the whistle on this goblin, at least some of those who were aware of his rantings agreed with them.)

Cowardice, Complicity, or 'Correctness?' Is there a difference?

Levying war against the United States? Adhering to our enemies? Giving them aid and comfort? Politicians, journalists, intellectuals, artists...progressives, transnationalists, moonbats?

Anybody want to argue that blood must be shed to commit treason?

I surely don't want to jump to any conclusions here. Perhaps poor lil' Hasan was simply lashing out at American bigotry in a totally justified manner. I mean, if one really, really, really hates bigotry badly enough, who is to say where the line is drawn?

Look at that poor 'typical white person' Christian man who was driven to shoot all those folks at Luby's in '91. I'm sure he simply hated bigotry.

Imagine the mental gymnastics required to assert, with absolute certainty, that Hennard was driven by "his" religion...and that Hasan was not. Willful blindness.

Cowardice, Complicity, or 'Correctness?'

Treason, anybody?

Captain Hate

Is it even available on DVD?

Answering my own question from Wiki:

Disney/ABC ultimately shelved plans to release a DVD of the miniseries as a result of pressure from the political left, specifically the Clintons themselves. As noted in the documentary, Disney/ABC denies this and claims the decision not to release a DVD was purely a business decision


Men live in dreams and reality.

Danube of Thought

What is needed is a bipartisan Fort Hood Commission to find out why these many dots were not connected: sunlight is the best disinfectant. They will need subpoena power, and the president should order full cooperation at every level. Televised public hearings are the only means of ensuring a fully-informed public. Otherwise the drumbeat will soon begin: Obama knew!


So, let me sere if I got this right--It was Okay for Hasan to enter the army, collect a half million $ in education benefits , take an oath to defend the US and then kill his fellow soldiers to prevent them from killing Moslems--the very Moslems who are regularly blowing eachother up and slitting eachother's throats?

Enough of this b.s.-Casey and Napolitanop and the NYT shouldn't worry so much about backlash --It's FRONTlASH you dumbells!

Rob Crawford

Anybody want to argue that blood must be shed to commit treason?

No, because that requirement is not included in the Constitutional definition of the crime.

Arguably, the moment he "reached out" to al Qaeda he became a traitor. Unarguably, the moment he gave his "behead the unbeliever" speech he should have become unemployable.

Seriously -- if someone gives a presentation at a professional conference and goes into a religious-based rant about murdering people and defiling their corpses, shouldn't that person be put under psychological treatment?




But remember fellow haters: Hasan had nothing to so with 9/11!!


Can we call him a terrorist yet? Or do we need more evidence?


No, because that requirement is not included in the Constitutional definition of the crime.

Bingo. And if this maggot had been apprehended prior to slaughtering his fellow American soldiers?

The Cowardice, Complicity or 'Correctness' Crowd would be...

Oh. Wait. They are anyway. Nevermind.


Except for the Taquiya, and the commonality of the Awlaki tie from the Great Falls mosque


He probably could have gotten out if he'd pretended to be gay. But of course, he couldn't even bring himself to do that.

Rob Crawford

He probably could have gotten out if he'd pretended to be gay. But of course, he couldn't even bring himself to do that.

Given the number of times AQ higher-ups have warned their people about keeping young boys for "assistants", I dunno about that.


Brits intercepted email and prevented a major attack on NY Subway..
< a href=>If you want to find out what's happening go to the FOREIGN press


Crazed he was.  Crazy he wasn't.  Unless he was all along and that's not impossible.

He could have gotten out, MayBee. He didn't try hard enough, or didn't have imagination enough, or maybe he did figure a way out.

Dave (in MA)
hands out copies of the Koran before gunning down his victims while yelling "Allahu akbar,"

Titty bar akbar.


Islam is all about submission and domination. It mandates--commands--domination of non-Muslims and mandates violence to attain that goal. Bring people who buy into that into the country and what do you think is going to happen? A certain percentage--far too high for my comfort--will be serious about their "religion" and will act on their convictions. This should not be a surprise to anyone. If you want to avoid these problems, you don't let them in. It's not as if other countries around the world don't have restrictive immigration policies.

As I said above--Americans are biased against acting on principles drawn from reality. They have their own ideology that makes them feel warm and fuzzy about themselves. Fine. That's a recipe for national suicide.

New York's icons are more vulnerable than DC's.

Whoa, Clarice; Grand Central Terminal. Look out for the Garden.


I guess this means that Kimberly Munley will now be charged with a hate crime for shooting the bastard.


He probably could have gotten out if he'd pretended to be gay. But of course, he couldn't even bring himself to do that.

You can't say that! That's RAAAAcist! You bigot! Pretend? Ha! He didn't have sexual relations with Duane, Duane had them with him! And the deal with the goat is a cultural thing, so lay off!

Gotta love that Manly Muslim Warrior Tradition. Such a lovely culture.


BTW, installing malwarebytes in safe network mode, seems to have done the trick, thanks everyone

Jack is Back!


You can buy bumper stickers that say "They don't like us" at the Millwall Football Club shop at their website.

But if that doesn't work out or you really want to confuse people - you can get it in Dutch at the Ajax store. Here is why Ajax is the Euro equivalent of Millwall. LUN


Yes the signs are almost always there. There needs to be more paranoid people like me around to connect the dots on the people you know and raise the alarm. Too many people refuse to see the pattern.

Probably the higher ups in VA did see some signs and their reaction was to transfer him out of there. Kind of like transferring the molestor priests. They wanted him to be someone else's problem.

Did they ever figure out who the missing 9/11 hijacker was? I forget. I think they thought it was some guy. But maybe Hasan toyed with the idea. Never know.

Anyway, if Hasan had such a conflict of character, he should have tried harder to get out of the military. If that didn't work, he should have just gone awol and moved to Yemen with his priest. There are better ways to solve this "conflict".

BR's Saga of the Purple Chicken; The Wine Was Called "Rex-Goliath"!

11:42 Triple Cross is brilliant!
Multiplied by 15,000.


Unfortunately the "more" link at this site is broken for the time being:

Child Porn: Malware’s ultimate evil

If you lose files, you can probably restore them. If your credit gets stolen, you can eventually restore it. But, if malware starts storing child pornography on your PC, you’re done. In a world where anything goes-as Paris Hilton’s ‘career’ and SC governor Mark Sanford continuing in office after his ‘hike’ on the Appalachian trail shows–there are still some things you cannot do and survive in society. Near the top of that list is child pornography. Now, thanks to some particularly nasty Windows malware, your computer might be being used to store it and you may never know it until it’s too late.

A recent AP report revealed that pedophiles are using “virus-infected PCs to remotely store and view their stash without fear they’ll get caught.” It’s not just sick people though. “Pranksters or someone trying to frame you can tap viruses to make it appear that you surf illegal Web sites. Whatever the motivation, you get child porn on your computer – and might not realize it until police knock at your door.”

The AP “found cases in which innocent people have been branded as pedophiles after their co-workers or loved ones stumbled upon child porn placed on a PC through a virus. It can cost victims hundreds of thousands of dollars to prove their innocence.”

Rule of thumb? If you wouldn't want the world at large to know you visited a particular site, then don't go there. Not foolproof, but it's a good rule number one for security.

Jack is Back!

This just in:

The Once and Lady Beltway are going to Ft. Hood for a memorial service tomorrow where he will speak. (Now you know why he never planned to go to Berlin, since this gives him a more relevant reason to speak of himself than the Wall would have).

So, with that in mind - its time for another game of Obama Bingo. My card has 5 "me's" and 8 "I's" so you may want to modify your own.


So let's imagine if a non-Muslim guy named O'Brien had been heard making the same kinds of antiwar remarks that Hasan was making (apart from anything that referred to himself as Muslim). How long would he have lasted in the military?

BR says Christopher Felix Applauds You!

Clarice at 10:36: "The only way to stop this carp is to expose it--and when it is exposed, the fury and outrage will begin to cause its demise."



All this awful, hateful, anti-Muslim backlash violence.

We're all ripe for pre-Traumatic Stress Syndrome for witnessing the imaginary horrors of the non-existent backlash.

Who knows what it might drive us to do, if we were granted the same "pass" as our poor, oppressed victims.

On top of that, I'm going deaf and blind listening to and reading of the overwhelming condemnation of Hasan and radical Islam by the moderate mohammedans.

Did BHO just help convict acquit Hasan?


yep, he's a devout muslim

Alleged Fort Hood Shooter Frequented Local Strip Club

it's ok to pay women for a lap dance but don't get your photo taken with female coworkers


I guess this means that Kimberly Munley will now be charged with a hate crime for shooting the bastard.

Munley's a hero, but...

Officer describes firefight that downed Hasan

By JAY ROOT (AP) – 1 day ago

KILLEEN, Texas — One of two police officers who confronted the alleged Fort Hood killer says he shot Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan before kicking the man's weapon away, handcuffing him and ending the nation's worst killing spree on a military base.

Sgt. Mark Todd joined Sgt. Kimberly Munley, hailed as a hero for her actions, in a firefight with Hasan that lasted less than a minute. Todd, 42, was not wounded, but the exchange left Munley injured and Hasan critically wounded.

Seconds after Todd arrived on the scene, he said he saw a calm-looking Hasan, his gun drawn and his fingers pointing at people.

"He was firing at people as they were trying to run and hide," Todd told The Associated Press Saturday.

That's when Todd, a retired soldier who now works as a civilian police officer at Fort Hood, said he shouted at Hasan.

"I told him stop and drop your weapons. I identified myself as police and he turned and fired a couple of rounds at me. I didn't hear him say a word ... he just turned and fired."

There has been confusion since Thursday's rampage about whose bullets actually brought down Hasan, who was shot four times. At first, Munley's supervisor said it was her shot to Hasan's torso that leveled him, but Army officials would only say that an investigation was under way.

Munley was down by the time he engaged Hasan, Todd said. He wasn't sure if Munley had wounded the suspect, because "once he started firing at me, I lost track of her."

Todd said he fired his Beretta at Hasan. Hasan flinched, Todd said, then slid down against a telephone pole and fell on his back. Todd says he then heard bystanders say "two more, two more."


you can google news todd and here an interview with him, too.


yikes! "hear" an interview with him. so hasan is off the ventilator.

your mama

It's obamas fault


Interesting how training takes over. Todd sees Hasan shooting at people and still yells "stop!" Well, no, I'm, sure that wasn't part of his police training, but it's a natural reaction for someone who's not a psychopath. It was a product of his upbringing, just as Hasan's actions probably were.

hit and run

There needs to be more paranoid people like me around to connect the dots on the people you know and raise the alarm.

I can vouch for sylvia on this.


Speaking of foreign press, even the London Times is picking up on Obama being insensitive, like in his 'shout outs' etc.

I think that confirms my idea that Obama is not the typical politician. My theory is most politicians tend minorly toward the psychopathy end of personality types. Psychopaths tends to be good at being attune to others feelings and adapting and blending in. Constant lying and risky behavior is a feature of that personality, which is why we have so many stupid scandals with these pols. Bill Clinton would be an example of that.

I think Obama tends more towards the autism side of the personality spectrum. Autistics are supposed to be in tune only with themselves and closed off from social signals. So he is kind of a different pol that way. Those types don't usually make it to office. He maybe got to where he is by careful stage managing.


Ha. The trollmeister agrees. Right from the horses mouth.

Send him a psychiatrist.

sylvia @ 1:48 Good stuff. May be some Asperger or otherwise atypical there.

It's a water hockey stick.

Hah, w&s, I just mentioned you on the PUK, AKA Peter Bocking tribute thread, see left sidebar. I don't think bender understood you, but aren't those moisture proxy Yamals sumpin' else?


By the way, I think I remember from the 9/11 hijackers that suiciders are allowed to run wild before their attacks. They are allowed to go on a Islamic Rumpaspringa, (which I think is an Amish word for 'running wild'). It's supposed to be their treat.


Anduril, yes I figured there would be some corrected story like that on Munley. It was too good to pass up though, the idea that a woman took down an Islamist fascist. Probably more realistically it was a combo of the two officers.


He does seem uncommonly cold andindifferent,
some suggested Spock, the Quintoencarnation,
but I would say Romulan.


LOL, Hit!!!

Rob Crawford

it's ok to pay women for a lap dance but don't get your photo taken with female coworkers

AFAIK, strip clubs ban cameras. So he wasn't inconsistent on that point.


Maybe if Janet Napolitano hadn't been spending so much time scrutinizing "tea-bag people" she could have connected the dots on the worst domestic terrorism since 9/11.

Gregory Koster

Cap'n, late, but THE PATH TO 9/11 hasn't been released on DVD, but is available on YouTube, complete with the chunk that was cut out of the original broadcast because it upset Billyboy.

Captain Hate

Thanks GK. Wow, there was some stuff that Clenis whined about *before* it was released and got it nixed? I'll definitely watch that because what they included was so damning that he was a complete incoherent idiot on FNS trying to explicate himself after the cut version ran. Great legacy you got there, Slick, for those that are willing to dig outside of that double-wide porn repository you call a library....


Does anyone else see some connection between Reverend Wright and Hasan's Imam?



Gladney beating arrest report


Is vnjagvet around? I have a question about jurisdiction. I was under the assumption that Texas would retain jurisdiction over the murder of the civilian at Ft. Hood. Someone over at Hot Air just burst my bubble. Says that the military retains jurisdiction unless they give it up. Anyone know?


We can only hope Sue - then again, it's Texas.


Sue, I believe this is what is known traditionally as "murder on a government reservation," although that exact terminology is not included in 18 usc 1111. Fort Hood is a government reservation, i.e. it is "Within the special maritime and territorial jurisdiction of the United States,"


Dang. I don't want that to be the answer. He won't sit on death row here.


Also murder in a government facility: 18 usc 930. Not to mention, Hasan is a member of the u.s. military, so comes under UCMJ.


So how did that guy who get convicted in civilian court for a rape that occurred in Iraq?


I went home for lunch - turned on Fox News. Shep and Judge Napolitano were reviewing a FNC on-line poll about Hasan's motives.

Need I say, they were Shocked! SHOCKED I tell ya, cuz 60-70% chose "terrorism" as his motive. Shep looks at the camera incredulously and asks - "what are the connections to terrorism?"


"civilian court"? you mean federal court? i don't know the facts. it's possible the military ceded jurisdiction to the civilian feds to avoid an appearance of favoring one of their own, if he had been convicted. however, i believe others accused of atrocities have been tried in courts martial (haditha defendants?)--sorry, don't know the facts. why don't you ask vnjagvet?



Google Steven Dale Green. I think I answered my own question when I googled his name.


answer (google is amazing):

Trial of ex-soldier for rape-slaying in Iraq puts law within U. S. to test
By Brett Barrouquere
April 07, 2009, 6:51 AM /

PADUCAH, Ky. — The first former Army soldier to be charged as a civilian under a 2000 law that allows him to be prosecuted for alleged crimes committed overseas faces trial in a federal courtroom in Kentucky.

Steven D. Green, a former member of the 101st Airborne Division, was accused along with four fellow soldiers of raping a 14-year-old girl and killing her and her family in Mahmoudiya, Iraq, but he won’t face an Iraqi or military jury.

Instead, Green will face jurors in Paducah, under the Military Extraterritorial Jurisdiction Act. Jury selection started Monday.

Congress passed the law in 2000 to allow U. S. authorities to prosecute former military personnel for crimes committed overseas. The law specifically cites a “jurisdictional gap” that leaves perpetrators unpunished for crimes by Americans when they occur in countries that won’t prosecute them or when the United States is unable to investigate or prosecute. It also covers civilians, their spouses and military contractors.

The use of the law against Green, who faces 17 charges, including murder and sexual assault, has drawn fire from his attorneys.

They argue that the law wasn’t intended for defendants such as Green, who left the Army before his co-defendants faced courts-martial. “The law wasn’t designed to do what it’s doing to Green,” said Darren Wolff, a former military attorney who represents Green.

But one proponent of the law disagrees, and said the law is functioning as it should. “Congress seems to have envisioned someone just like him,” said Scott Silliman, executive director of the Center on Law, Ethics and National Security at Duke University.

Opening statements in the case are to begin April 27.

Green, 22, of Midland, Texas, and four other soldiers with the 1st Battalion, 502nd Infantry Regiment, based at Fort Campbell, Ky., were probed after Abeer Qassim al-Janabi was raped and her body set afire March 12, 2006, south of Baghdad. Her family was also killed.

By the time the Army pressed charges in June 2006, Green had been honorably discharged with a personality disorder and returned to the United States. The other four soldiers were charged under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, and each faced a court-martial. Three pleaded guilty, and a jury convicted one. They received prison sentences ranging from five to 110 years, based on their roles in the attack.

Wolff said the law treats Green differently from his alleged co-conspirators, all of whom faced military juries and none of whom was faced with a possible death penalty.


heh. i googled "jurisdiction over soldiers accused of crimes overseas".


The first thing I thought of was Bill Ayers and his bungled attempt to murder hundreds at Fort Dix.


Ayers is now wearing a t-shirt with a picture of Hasan, wearing a t-shirt with a picture of Che, wearing a t-shirt with a picture of BHO.

MHO's proud of 'em all. She's wearing a t-shirt that says, "Free Hasan!"

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