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December 06, 2009

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clarice

Back at you sachy.

boris

Jeff screams "fraud ...

Didn't mean to dispute that, just a bit weary of the effort to establish "not a denier". Shouldn't hold anybody to a different standard than Lindzen though.

Maybe Lindzen just cuts through the din like a Santana guitar solo.

anduril

Reading between the lines:

Does someone have a link to the Horst Wessel Lied so we can have appropraite music as we scroll thru these posts?

Posted by: clarice | December 07, 2009 at 10:32 AM

I think clarice just called me a Nazi, simply because I linked an article in Haaretz about a rabbi who has published a pamphlet on the permissibility of killing Gentiles. Unfortunately, the link to Haaretz isn't working right now, but the actual title of the article is exactly as I linked it: Who is funding the rabbi who endorses killing gentile babies?

Wikipedia describes Haaretz as follows:

Haaretz is considered Israel's most influential daily newspaper. Its readership includes Israel's intelligentsia and its political and economic elites. Surveys show that Haaretz readership has a higher-than-average education, income, and wealth; most are Ashkenazis.

Anyone is free to disagree with Haaretz' opinions, but the article I quoted was not an op-ed piece: it was reporting on a factual matter, namely that the Israeli government, contrary to many might have thought, funds this kooky rabbit who endorses the killing of Gentile babies. That any government should fund that sort of ideology is, I think, newsworthy anywhere--and I think I'm entitled to presume in favor of Haaretz' reporting, given its reputation. How linking to that article makes me a Nazi is hard to fathom. Obviously this sort of vile name-calling is a tactic to steer forum participants away from reading what Israel's most influential newspaper considers to be newsworthy.

FYI, this story appears to have been originally brought to light in another Israeli newspaper, Maariv. Unfortunately, Maariv is Hebrew-only, and I don't read Hebrew. However, there is a site that provides a translation of the entire Maariv article that discusses the pamphlet in question: The complete guide to killing non-Jews. This site also has an "Update" section that includes references to this subject in English on the web.

For those of you not familiar with Maariv, Wikipedia describes it as follows:

Maariv's coverage of events and editorial opinions are considered 'middle of the road', giving a balanced representation of the diverse views that abound in the Israeli society.[citation needed] Maariv's journalists and guest writers from the different sides of the political and social spectrum express their opinions side-by-side.

Again, I'm at a loss to understand how citing a story that was featured in a "middle of the road" Israeli newspaper could possibly make me a Nazi. Outside of the obvious tactical motive behind clarice's slur, it's clear that her use of such a vile slur says a lot more about her than about either of the Israeli newspapers or about me.

narciso, to his great credit, directs his criticism not at me personally but at the source of the reporting, an Israeli human rights organization called Yesh Din:

A quote from Yesh Din, what press releases from CAIR, MPAC, ISNA weren't available. 'six of one, half a dozen of another'

Posted by: narciso | December 07, 2009 at 10:28 AM

narciso tars Yesh Din by suggesting that it is to be judged as on a par with organizations such as CAIR, which some have claimed is either sympathetic to or actually supportive of Islamic terrorism.

While that may be a fair characterization of CAIR--and narciso should correct me if I have misrepresented his own view of CAIR--it appears to be so unlikely a characterization of Yesh Din as to be caricature at best, but really outright slander. Be that as it may, here is information re Yesh Din which I've gleaned from their site. Please note, some of its board members appear to be or to have been very eminent people in Israeli government, the Israeli military and Israeli society in general:

Established in March 2005, Yesh Din is comprised of volunteers who have organized to oppose the continuing violation of Palestinian human rights in the Occupied Palestinian Territory. Some of us have long been active in defending human rights, and others have just recently joined the struggle. We have different personal, professional, and political backgrounds but are united by our deep concern over the serious damage the occupation is inflicting on both Palestinian and Israeli societies.

Our mission is to achieve a long-term structural improvement in the human rights situation in the OPT. We work for an immediate and meaningful change in the Israeli authorities' practices by documenting and disseminating accurate and up-to-date information about the systematic violation of human rights in the OPT, by raising public awareness of such violations, and by applying public and legal pressures on government agencies to end them.

In order to attain our goals more effectively, Yesh Din operates according to a model unique to human rights groups in Israel: While the organization is directed and run by volunteers, it also receives guidance from a professional team of lawyers, human rights experts and media consultants. As such, Yesh Din benefits from professional consulting, communications and legal services on a daily basis.

Yesh Din is currently devoting its time and resources to promoting law enforcement of settler violence in the West Bank.

...

The Board

* Shulamit Aloni. Lecturer on human rights. Former Israeli minister of education and culture, minister of communications, minister of science and arts. Founder and chairperson of Ratz – the Movement for Civil Rights and Peace. Recipient of the Israel Prize for special lifetime contribution to Israeli society.
* Michael Ben Yair. Lawyer. Former attorney general of the State of Israel.
* Rut Dayan. Expert on labor projects. Founder and director of Maskit; project director in Latin America for the Inter-American Development Bank.
* Colonel (Ret.) Paul Kedar. Former Israeli consul in New York; head of Ministry of Defense delegation to Europe; IDF attaché to Turkey. Member of Beyt Hatfusot founders; director of Shlomi's Community Center.
* General (Ret.) Shlomo Lahat. Former mayor of Tel Aviv-Jaffa.
* Yair Rotlevy. Industrialist. Board member of several public companies and organizations for social change.
* Michal Smoira-Cohn. Musicologist. Founder of Sovlanut; former chair of Israel's Women’s Organization Council; Councilor of the Jerusalem municipality.
* General (Ret.) Shlomo Gazit. Former Head of Military Intelligence.
* Talia Sasson. lawyer, former Deputy Attorney General for special assignments, author of the illegal outposts report submitted to the Government of Israel in 2005 according to the request of prime minister Ariel Sharon; an external Lecturer in Tel Aviv University.
* Yehudit Karp. lawyer, former Deputy Attorney General.
* Brigadier General (Res.) Ilan Paz. former head of the Civil Administration.
* Ruti Cheshin. President and one of the founders of the Jerusalem Foundation.

I don't ask for a personal apology from clarice for her despicable slander against me--I'm a big boy and am able to simply consider the source. However, I BELIEVE CLARICE OWES THE ENTIRE FORUM, AND OUR HOST, TOM MAGUIRE, AN APOLOGY FOR SO GROSSLY LOWERING THE STANDARDS OF CONVERSATION. Her slur goes way beyond even the most expansive interpretation of fair comment.

clarice

Sachy, back at you.

Jane

Anduril,

Stop posting long long things - it's incredibly rude. Post a link. If you don't know how, ask.

BTW you are not going to win a fight with Clarice - we love Clarice - we don't like you at all, and we certainly don't believe anything you say. I keep thinking you have a huge case of ADD which forces you to go on like a jerk, but maybe you are just a jerk.

clarice

If I wanted to call you a Nazi I would have. It does seem however, that an inordinate amount of your posts go to demonizing israel and noting that Tiger only sleeps with white women..and that does seem odd esp when those posts are on threads with entirely different subjects and involve articles which are cited only on the most bizarre sites like Loon Watch which do seem to be Horst Wessel-y.Google the Haaretz article for example..


Haaretz is BTW an extremely left wing paper..

As for slander..when I noted that a C/I expert confirmed that one reason Nozette was approached by a make believe Mossad officer was that it was easier to false flag an Israeli than an Indian you called me a liar.
With this, I really am finished with you.

BR

Jane, oh, yummy! Al Gore meeting with Obama today! I think Pagar answered yr question - they're discussing Obama's involvement with the Chicago Climate Exchange in light of Climategate!

Old Lurker

When a poster's interminable posts begin to dwarf those of the owner of the blog, and when their frequency rises to the point of responding to his own posts, it is time for that poster to get a blog of his own. That's why I asked the other day if Carol Herman had returned under a new name. At least she was shamed into announcing her name at the top of her posts so we could scroll by them easily. (We can thank Clarice for that improvement in our decorum IIRC)

Where is Miss Manners this week? I'd be willing to buy her a baseball bat.

Sue

Has anyone else noticed that Hillary sounds like a robot lately? It is like she is reading every word coming out of her mouth.

Sue

funds this kooky rabbit who endorses the killing of Gentile babies

OMG! There is a kooky rabbit on the loose killing Gentile babies. I have a kooky rabbit shotgun I will loan anyone needing a rabbit gun but I must warn you, it has a loud BOOM when fired.

anduril

If I wanted to call you a Nazi I would have.

The reference to the Horst Wessel Lied was an unmistakeable attempt to slur me as a Nazi. If narciso was able to address my post without calling me a Nazi, you should have been able to do so, too.

an inordinate amount of your posts go to demonizing israel

I merely attempt to balance the usual tenor of the posting here, which presents a very unrealistic view of the Bush administrations policies and of Israel. It's quite clear that from your standpoint NO criticism of Israel is permissible. Indeed, your viewpoint and that of others on this forum is so out of touch with reality that when I link to articles by persons who are, in fact, strongly supportive of a militarily strong Israel--authors like Ariel Ilan Roth--you and the others reflexively dismiss their opinions without attempting to understand them. My posts are intended to promote open discussion based on informed opinion. No one can hope to understand Israeli politics without having a clear view of the range of opinion within Israel--with the realization that groups that might be fringe kooks elsewhere have a disproportionate influence in Israeli politics. Information such as that contained in the article that I linked is essential to a fully informed judgment.

articles which are cited only on the most bizarre sites like Loon Watch

I've never heard of Loon Watch. I came across the link to Haaretz in an article about a US DoS human rights report.

Haaretz is BTW an extremely left wing paper.

I cited Haaretz not for its editorial opinions but for the factual content of the article. Maariv, which broke the story, is not left wing, from what I've been able to gather. I used to read its articles in English when they were available. Anyway, any adult should be able to make the distinction between news writing and editorial opionion. To offer another example, the WSJ editorial is consistently conservative in orientation, but its news writers or well known to be as liberal as those of any other major newspaper in the USA--yet WSJ news articles are regularly cited on this forum. Tom Maguire regularly links to liberal publications like the NYT and authors such as Andrew Sullivan--why should I allow you to dictate to me where I look for information. I certainly cite AT far more often than Haaretz--probably exponentially more often.

you called me a liar.

I stated that neither you nor your "real CIA guy" knew what you were talking about--and proceeded to provide detailed reasons for that judgment. And I stand behind that judgment.

I repeat: YOU OWE TOM MAGUIRE AND THE ENTIRE FORUM AN APOLOGY FOR THIS DETOUR INTO THE SWAMP.

anduril

Sorry: wascally wabbit.

anduril

Sue, I'm pleased that you read my posts so closely--more closely than I do!

Sue

you and the others reflexively dismiss their opinions without attempting to understand them.

I dismissed Roth because he used the words probably, could, might, notwithstanding, a tad too many times in that article for me to do anything but dismiss him.

Sue

anduril,

Don't get too excited. I didn't read your post the first time through. You are a SOB to me, as a general rule. I went back after reading Jane's comment to you to see what was said.

anduril

Notwithstanding his excessive use of qualifiers, you probably could have benefited from a close reading of the article. You might have gained a new perspective on an important issue.

anduril

a SOB

an SOB

Sue

the Bush administrations policies

the Bush administration's policies

Don't go there, anduril. It is never a good policy.

fcd11th

From YADO61
With Love

narciso

Clarice is being very patient with you, considering her tenure with the OSI. The entire academy, with a few exceptions seems to be on a anti Semitic kick lately, eveneamong liberal Jews. I forget the name of that Chomsky disciple with the Anti Israeli jones. Walt and Mearsheimer might as well been printed in Riyadh with editions from late 19th Century Czarist Russia. A board composed of the equivalent of Ramsey Clark and the VIPs crew doesn't impress us. Soas Keef would say "good day to you Sir, and may God have mercy on your soul'

anduril

Beautiful tiger. I luv tigers--got loads of books about them.

anduril

Have a nice day, narciso.

Jane

fcd11th,

I have the most wonderful picture of a tiger that I took at the Sydney zoo (the most fabulous zoo on the planet). I took it, developed it, framed it and hung it on my wall. If you knew how untalented I am that would impress you. [g]

BR

Looking forward to many compromising photographs )

JM Hanes

anduril:

"I BELIEVE CLARICE OWES THE ENTIRE FORUM, AND OUR HOST, TOM MAGUIRE, AN APOLOGY FOR SO GROSSLY LOWERING THE STANDARDS OF CONVERSATION. Her slur goes way beyond even the most expansive interpretation of fair comment."

Bold face AND all caps, from the resident specialist in slurry. LOL. I thought Clarice was referring to the AGW propagandists, but never mind. At this point, I doubt she needs to point out that you're a raving anti-Zionist, if not an anti-Semite, with a massive self-righteous, self-congratulatory chip on your shoulder.

You're hardly in a position to demand apologies on behalf of the forum, when you can hardly manage a post without casting smug aspersions on everyone in it, and routinely directing ad hominems at folks who disagree with you. That there are those who choose to engage you, despite your oozing contempt, is a testament to tolerance.

I generally skip your pedantry and just skim your massive copy/pastes for the occasional link on topics of interest. I checked out the Haaretz story in your mercifully short comment and just had to laugh at your sudden restraint. Militant orthodoxy in Israel! Who knew? Government funds going to schools who harbor extremists. Unthinkable! A scholarship or two for poverty stricken radicals in the making. Unprecedented. Clearly the Israeli government is crawling with baby killers.

The headline was just too delicious for your usual tedious contextualizing, wasn't it? Folks can start here, with The complete guide to killing non-Jews:

Throughout the book, the authors deal with in-depth theoretical questions in Jewish religious law regarding the killing of non-Jews.

Why on earth would the Orthodox Jews in Yitzhar be in need of such guidance? How could the Israeli government even conceive of assisting local schools instead of shunning such a community altogether? JPost

The security establishment is worried about an acute rise in violence between settlers and Palestinians in the West Bank ahead of the beginning of the olive harvest season, and in the wake of the violent weekend clashes near the Yitzhar settlement which left at least nine wounded, Army Radio reported on Sunday.

On Saturday, dozens of settlers went on the rampage through a Palestinian village near Nablus, shooting in the streets and stoning homes and cars, after a nine-year-old boy was stabbed in the nearby settlement of Yitzhar.

According to Yigal Amitai, a spokesman for Yitzhar, a Palestinian man infiltrated the settlement at 6:40 Saturday morning and broke into the home of a family that was away for Shabbat. When he saw that no one was there he set fire to the house.

The infiltrator then tried to enter a second home through the window. A woman who lived in the house heard him at the window and quickly tried to close the blinds. He tried to push the window open anyway, but she was able to get the blinds down and stop him from entering, said Amitai.

The Palestinian then saw Tuvia Shtatman walking on his way to synagogue and stabbed him five times, according to Amitai. He said the boy fought back and tried to grab the knife but that the Palestinian picked him up and threw him in the direction of a nearby ravine.

Fighting propaganda with.... propaganda. What a concept.

mockmook

anduril,

Quite a gig you have going; here is what a series of your comments looks like:

reasonable...

reasonable...

reasonable...

JOOOOS!!!!!!

reasonable...

reasonable...

reasonable...

JOOOOS!!!!!!

reasonable...

reasonable...

reasonable...

JOOOOS!!!!!!

etc.


BTW, what is a neocon?

BR

Looking...
Seeing larger than life pictures
Displayed all over Copenhagen

Changing...
Showing all their obscenities
For the whole world to notice

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