Fire It Up!

Harry Reid rallies the Senate.  Ooops, here we go.

Comments

[peter]

I posted a few days ago that Lieberman was not to be trusted. Conscience of the Senate, my ass.

[Pofarmer]

So, when is it time to storm Washington? Is it time to panic yet?

[Neo]

I'm waiting for the conference bloodbath.

I don't expect the House to fall in line, especially since Lieberman seems to have gotten even more than Sen. Landrieu who's $300 million is looking cheap about now.

[Jane]

I don't think so. I don't think there is a deal. O is still politicking.

[Sue]

Are they claiming there is a deal? I missed O's presser.

[Jane]

I don't think so Sue - since I refuse to listen to Obama it's hard to tell - but I think he was saying: "There will be a bill" which means there is not one.

[Sue]

I've been worried that Lieberman was a smoke screen.

[glasater]

Are they claiming there is a deal? I missed O's presser

Sue--you didn't miss much. Zero just stood there and lied for awhile.

[pagar]

Howard Dean to the rescue!

"Howard Dean: “Kill The Senate Bill”

LUN

[anduril]

December 15, 2009, 1:56 pm
Burris Pushes Back
By DAVID M. HERSZENHORN

The backlash has begun.

Senator Roland W. Burris, Democrat of Illinois, has vowed that he will not vote for a health care bill that does not include a government-run insurance plan, or public option.

[Old Lurker]

1) Lieberman always was and always will be a lib. 2)he sold his soul to Al Gore.

What more do you need to know?

[anduril]

A day or two ago I linked to Paul Ryan's article in Forbes, in which he took out after Crony Capitalism. This reprise of that article, Paul Ryan and the future of the GOP, doesn't mention Obamacare, but Ryan did talk about it:

Now, on both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue, health care and energy lobbyists continue to fall over themselves to cut their deals--knowing that if they aren't at the table, they'll be on the menu.

As we watch the struggle against Obamacare near the endgame, it's worth reflecting whether the GOP has a platform it can continue to run on. The "reprise" I link to boils the Fortune article down to four points. Here's how it starts out:

This commentary [link to Forbes article] from GOP thought leader Rep. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin really sets the intellectual and political framework for where the GOP might be headed. He goes after Crony Capitalism, the melding of Big Money, Big Business and Big Goverment. This is what’s next.

I think Ryan hits on a point that could resonate through to 11/2010: the path forward requires “adopting a pro-market, rather than pro-business, approach.”

[Lucia]

People " in the know" link Liebermans holdout to his strong ties to Israel. If he holds out he can pressure Obama NOT to lean on Israel in the issue with Palestine and the peace talks.

[anduril]

Is this Burris' chance for "payback?"

(Scant 6 word post--I'll do better next time!)

[clarice]

Collins says she cannot vote for it either..Burris, you darling!!

[anduril]

So, the worst of both possible worlds--Obamacare at home and perpetual warfare in the Middle East. Thanks.

[Rick Ballard]

Why don't you hustle on back to Stormfront and cuddle up with the rest of the "in the know" folks, Lucia? Who knows, maybe the group IQ will crack 100 for the first time when you return.

[squaredance]

Oh for crying out loud.

Lieberman will cave, they will put eveything back in conference, and that is that.

Burris and the rest are just grandstanding. That lot knows that they will get what they want in conference.

THe Democrats will spend stimulus money like you have never seen in the ramp-up to Nov. 2010, the economy will be marginally better--enough to help them over the hump--and the MSM will be behind them. We will have more manufactured GOP scandals out of the media. We will have "Federal Oversight" of these elections, and you know what that means.
Heavens, look at how they reacted to politics in Honduras. This alone should tell you all you need know.

If they can engineer all the monstrosities in markets last year, they can engineer a brief easing of it next summer and fall.

People here need to stop thinking that a GOP win in 2010 in is a foredrawn conclusion. It is not. The Democrat know that all is not lost, they know in fact that they are winning.
Why don't conservatives know it?
This underestimation of the Democrats, and this overestimation of the intelligence and common sense of the American people has bedeviled conservatives since 2006.

Wake up, it will get much, much worse.

Ask yourself how you will feel if the brazenly and openly steal 2010 and get away with it. What will you think when they push through card check, cap and trade, gun control, gut our strategic forces, grant subsidies to the MSM, Sell our secrets to the highest bidding enemy and drive the country to the same fate as Argentina.

What then? Will we hear again in 2012 how the country will rise up against them, how this time they have overplayed their hand?

This sort of wishful thinking on the Right is becoming tiresome.

wake up.

[Sue]

A Ron Paulian?

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet]

Neo's got the right idea. The conference on this thing is where the action will be. It ain't over 'til it's over, or until the fat lady sings or...

Obama was at his unctuous worst a few minutes ago when on stage with his White House statement complete with Senatorial backdrop. What a putz.

[Neo]

The Reid bill without the "public option" is probably unpassable, so we could go back to the Baucus bill which nobody except a half dozen Senators liked.

The real problem now is ... what will they pass ?

They folks are now so desperate the they would try passing a "blank piece of paper" which they would fill in during conference.

[Old Lurker]

Jim, Pelosi is too smug. Either because you are right and she knows she wins in Conference, or else the fix is in that the House will accept the Senate bill and go home. As others have said, there is so much wrong with the rest of the bill, that the progs will be picking meat off our bones until they get the parts they really want put back in later.

And yes, Obama was at his worst this afternoon.

[Neo]

It height of cynicism would be to pass a "blank piece of paper" that they would have Obama fill in before signing.

Even then, Obama would screw the pooch.

[Lucia]

I can assure you R.B. that the "in the know" crowd are a lot smarter than I am, and smarter than you also. I am not the author of the article I referred to regarding Lieberman, but posted the reference as conjecture, not even sure I believe it myself. One thing I do know is that when someone reacts like you did in attacking me, it is usually a case of THE TRUTH HURTS. So maybe my failed IQ has less to do with your rage than your own emotional imaturity.

[clarice]

I'm writing a nice letter to that dear Senator Burris telling him he's a real profile in courage and to hang tight.
I'm also happy to announce that the Israels have agreed to move a key base to Nebraska if Nelson holds out. (Take that, Sotrmfront!)

[centralcal]

Lucia, piss off.

LMAO, Clarice.

[clarice]

Taranto:
"What explains the Democrats' seemingly reckless renewed push for ObamaCare after last month's election losses? One theory: They worry that if they fail to rally their left-wing base, they'll suffer even worse defeats next year. Lieberman's efforts may prevent them from accomplishing even that.

To be sure, it would be satisfying to see Lieberman take revenge against the party that abandoned him in 2006. But for the country, it's not worth it if the price is enactment of even a watered-down version of ObamaCare. So let's hope the progressives succeed in thwarting the last, best chance at wrecking American health care. "

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

Rev. Oral Roberts, 91, has died.

[Rick Ballard]

Hmmm... my Sylvan Bozon dosimeter strip just turned black. Time to activate the Narcisolator shields.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

wake up.

You know, you hardly ever get to hear a full-out John-Birch conspiracy-theory rant any more.

Nicely done, sir.

[anduril]

I don't think Lucia is so off base. Look at it this way...

Suppose I'm the Senator from Connecticut. Obviously, my big money constituency is insurance companies. But suppose I'm personally flexible on the issue of national health, whereas the issue that floats my boat is...a strong military for Poland! (As all you who follow my posting closely will know, I don't personally think Poland is in any particular danger from Russia, but for the sake of the example...)

In such a case, why wouldn't I bargain with Harry Reid to get the best possible deal for my insurance companies? Don't you think that's what Lieberman's been doing for months now? Why else does Reid feel betrayed--he thought he had Lieberman bought! But if I were the Senator, maybe after I'd got the best possible deal for the insurance companies, maybe I'd up the ante. Hey, Harry, if you really, really want my vote, how about we get Obama to authorize the sale of, oh, F-22's to Poland? If I really felt strongly about that, would I do it? Why not--isn't that the sort of thing all the other Senators are doing with regard to their own pet issues? Isn't that how sausage is made in the Senate?

As far as I can tell, the whole Lieberman-Israel-Obamacare meme is very much a lefty thing, not a Nazi thing. All the lefties are asking, what's up with Lieberman? Is he really philosophically opposed to national health, or is he bought and paid for by the evil insurance companies? And they all figure that he's not. Why not? Here's their reasoning.

If the US Senate is the world, then the strongest supporter of Israel in the world is probably Joe Lieberman. But Israel has socialized medicine, so what's Lieberman's problem with socialized medicine? If he's already been offered every conceivable deal to square his insurance companies, what's holding thing's up? What's his hot button issue, could that be it? Oh, Israel. Is he holding out for something that would benefit Israel?

I don't say the logic is airtight--in fact it's not. Being a strong supporter of Israel doesn't mean you have to be a strong supporter of Israel's choice in health care systems--he might well have philosophical objections to Obamacare (although there seems to be evidence to the contrary). However, that's the way the lefties are reasoning out there. Airtight it may not be, but in the realm of speculation it's not implausible and, contra Ballard = Stormfront = pathetic troll and central "piss off" cal, it doesn't make Lucia a Nazi to repeat what the Left is saying.

[Porchlight]

Sorry y'all, I can't keep up. I think Nelson said he is "not on the bill" earlier today, before Obama's statement. I know there are carrots and sticks being used to get his vote but I can't tell for sure yet if he's a yes.

[anduril]

Nelson did say that, before going to the WH. And he seemed to be saying that he wasn't budging.

Re Burris, I suspect there's a lot of bitterness there at the way Obama and the Senate have treated him.

Reid/Obama are having to fit some really odd shaped pieces into this jig saw puzzle, and maybe they don't all fit at this point.

[anduril]

Megan McArdle:

The Democrats desperately want to pass a health care bill through the Senate before Christmas, so that it can go through conference and be voted in early next year. The Senate is saying they can do this. Here's what I don't get: what about the CBO score?

Unless they actually just strip the bill back to the last version to get a full score, then they'll be voting blind. Maybe if that's what Lieberman asks for, you can tack on something Stupak-like and get to 60 with an essentially unchanged score (for all the heat of the debate, the amount of money involved is trivial).

But is that exactly what Lieberman and Nelson are asking for? We still don't know what's in this mythical deal. If there are any material changes, it will simply not be possible to push this thing through the Senate before Christmas, at least not if you want to know what it's going to cost. Essentially, the amount of time it takes to work through a cloture vote means that they need to call for cloture on Thursday. And while the CBO is a marvelously efficient organization, it does not actually whip through its work faster than a speeding bullet. Estimating the effect of any changes is simply going to take time.

Is the Senate willing to vote without a score? As someone recently remarked to me, "Kent Conrad doesn't go to the bathroom without a CBO score". Claire McCaskill has indicated she's unwilling to vote until she sees a good score. And I don't think they're the only ones. The CBO just wasted five days scoring The Deal that Wasn't.

If that's the case, I just don't see how you get to a cloture motion by Thursday. They're still debating amendments. And if I were a moderate Senator who doesn't really want to face voters having voted for this thing, I think the one thing I'd be asking for right now is some material changes from Baucus Lite, to slow it down and hope it dies of terminally bad poll numbers and progressive outrage in the New Year.

[Neo]

... and when this fails, they will blame Bush

[Neo]

Obama is convinced that they need a bill -- any bill -- or he looks incompetent.

They are afraid of him.

Feel the gestalt shifting.

[RichatUF]

Good grief.

[clarice]

Call me when they take Byrd out of the deep freeze again.

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet]

I heard he was hanging upside down in the meat locker at the Palm, Clarice.

[Neo]

anduril: by your reasoning then Burris is trying to get Left wing support for his re-election ? .. or is there something more I'm missing ?
Except for the Left Burris has nothing. .. or perhaps he is just jockeying for a post-Senate job with SEIU or some such.

[clarice]

Speaking of meat lockers, Nemesis is such a jolly lass, journos in Copenhagen where there is a heavy snofawll are freezing their butts off and complaining about it. Gore won't take questions again after his really brilliant performance yesterday on the ice cap..I'm sure someone will explain to them, freezing is really warming or weather isn't climate. Let's see how long those dopes keep buying this tripe.

[Ralph L]

It was the Hollies that PeterUK once played for, wasn't it?
They've made the Rock&Roll Hall of Fame, for what it's worth.
LUN

[clarice]

Yes, he did play for them. Who's shepherding the petition for PUK?

[Janet]

Here he is in his Senate office waiting to be called for the next vote...

[Janet]

Senator Robert "sheets" Byrd as Rush calls him!

[Melinda Romanoff]

Neo-

Working in an ACORN office is the ONLY way Burris will work for the citizens of Illinois.

Or take a County job. I'm thinking something at Stroger Hospital, that way he can roll up another pension.

Evrett Dirksen has better electoral chances.

[anduril]

Neo, Burris has already said he won't run for the Senate. I'm saying that Burris feels he's been run out of the Senate, and that Obama was part of that. So the idea of getting payback by thwarting Obama while taking the Lefty high ground may well be appealing to him. It's as good an explanation for his stand as any right now. And it's not new--he's been saying this all along.

Will he get anything out of this except personal satisfaction? Who knows? A lot of these politicians can be quite delusional when it comes to an assessment of their futures.

[Old Lurker]

"I don't think Lucia is so off base."

That's a line that makes me want to read more.

NOT

[Joey]

If this passes with no public option/Medicare buy in, it is great!!! With just subsidies all this will do is drive higher health care costs and taxes hurting the economy and lower quality health care while no public option will piss off the socialist lefties. This will guarantee big GOP victories in 2010 and huge victories in 2012.

Why so gloomy? Of course the public option may still make it back in.

[Ranger]

Burris has already announced he's not running. At this point it is all about his ego. He would be the prog. hero for eternity if he killed the bill without a public plan.

The problem here is how far the progressive caucus in the House can be pushed. They have declared "a robust public option" a hill they will die on. If they give it up now, they will never be trusted by the netroots again. On the other side, you have at least two Dems in the Senate that have said no way they can vote for a public option. One would think that includes the conference report as well.

It is the classic irrisistible force vs. the immovable object problem.

[Captain Hate]

Palin/Sanford 2012
What's not to love
LUN

[Ranger]

BTW, even without the public option, the campaign comercials against those who vote for this will be devistating:

500 billion in cuts to Medicare.

Lose your, lose your insurance, pay a fine.

Buy insurance or spend 5 years in jail.

They voted to take away your Medicare Advantage coverage.

The Republicans won't need a Contract With America, all they will need to do is promise to repeal Obamacare and they will get 60% of the 65+ vote and 60% of the independent vote.

[Danube of Thought]

"...this overestimation of the intelligence and common sense of the American people has bedeviled conservatives since 2006."

As of this morning, 46% of voters strongly disapprove of the Senate bill, while 19% strongly approve. That tells me that there's plenty of common sense and intelligence abroad in the land.

I decline even to speculate as to what any of these knaves, Lieberman included, will do come closure time.

Anybody know when the CBO score is expected?

[Captain Hate]

this overestimation of the intelligence and common sense of the American people has bedeviled conservatives since 2006.

This must be a Ronulan from the sheer arrogance content; I've never witnessed such a self-satisfied bunch continually proclaiming that Captain Ron was the only person who understood the Constitution. Insulting the electorate; that worked out well. Confusing political differences with levels of intelligence is a trap that should be avoided.

[Extraneus]

This sort of wishful thinking on the Right is becoming tiresome.

Good comment, squaredance. I agree that we're in danger of under-estimating them, and that the evidence shows that there aren't many lengths they'll not go to, especially now that they're cornered. But if they pass a health care bill, *any* health care bill, millions of people, including a lot of independents, will be incensed.

[anduril]

"I don't think Lucia is so off base."

That's a line that makes me want to read more.

NOT

Posted by: Old Lurker | December 15, 2009 at 06:51 PM

As if I give a shit...

[Rob Crawford]

You know, you hardly ever get to hear a full-out John-Birch conspiracy-theory rant any more.

Just ran into someone ranting about the "Papists and their devilish leader" over at Riehlworld. Must be something in the water, or a new Moby tactic.

[Porchlight]

As if I give a shit...

anduril: JOM readers :: Congress: citizens

[Extraneus]

I predict that, from now on, climate conferences will only be held in the summer.

From Drudge:

Forecast for Copenhagen: 'Heavy snowfall'...

Journalists complain about freezing temperatures in press lines...

[Jane]

Except for the Left Burris has nothing. .. or perhaps he is just jockeying for a post-Senate job with SEIU or some such.

Go over to Hillbuzz and see what they have to say about Burris - as I recall, he has been treated like shit since he got in the senate, by democrats - won't be re-elected and has nothing to lose by insisting on a public option.

Their post almost made me like him. Here you go.

[Porchlight]

OT,

Rasmussen: Crist 43, Rubio 43

Wow!

[peter]

OT, this LUN is an odd story

[Extraneus]

Imagine if Burris saves the country?

We'll have to lay a wreath on his edifice, while he's still alive.

[Rob Crawford]

OT, this LUN is an odd story

Nebraska has a fractal nature. Who knew?

[Old Lurker]

"As if I give a shit..."

Very nice.

Must be why you are so liked around here.

[Thomas Collins]

The Conference Committee on the health bill could be more interesting than the BCS Championship Game. Maybe they should sell tickets.

I know, I am going to eat crow if the health bill dies in the Senate. That would be fine with me.

[Frau Nervös]

Thanks for doing the Hillbuzz work on Burris, Jane. He has been tarred with an elite Hyde Park brush. Unlike Pres. Transparency, Roland was "down for the fight," so where are Al and Jesse when a brother needs them?

Clarice - won't the progressives have to *escort* Patrick Kennedy from his undisclosed rehab if there is a vote in the House?
And...how big is the pinko, er, left wing base? Would it really defeat its first elected president by sitting out an election cycle because of a "setback"?

[Captain Hate]

won't the progressives have to *escort* Patrick Kennedy from his undisclosed rehab if there is a vote in the House?

Poor Patches never gets to completely dry out.

[Frau Nervös]

Capt. - it would be sad if it weren't a Democrat elected by name only.

[Extraneus]

Algore thugs pull the cord from a guy's microphone, who had press credentials.

[anduril]

anduril: JOM readers

don't confuse a handful of posters with readers. if TM thought that {posters} = {readers} he'd shut this thing down.

Must be why you are so liked around here.

guess what? i have a life, and it doesn't revolve around being soooo liked around here.

[Rocco]

Yes, he did play for them. Who's shepherding the petition for PUK?

Clarice, when Hit emailed that Graham Nash had given him permission to use his name, I suggested he send the petition to the R&R Hall of Fame. My concern was that if the committee received a lot of petitions, all being the same, they may not read them all and miss the one with Graham Nash's name on it.

[boris]

"i have a life, and it doesn't revolve around being soooo liked around here"

The 2nd bit rings true anyway.

[anduril]

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Independent Sen. Joe Lieberman, a former Democrat who sits with Democratic caucus, said Tuesday that he would not rule out running for re-election in 2012 as a Republican.

Lieberman angered his colleagues in the Democratic caucus this week by threatening to torpedo health care legislation if it contains a government-run public health insurance or an expansion of Medicare.

Lieberman said he wasn't sure which party, if any, he would represent in his next election. "I like being an independent, so that's definitely a possibility," the Connecticut senator said.

I think at this point he likes yanking Dem chains--and who's to blame for that?

[hit and run]

I've lost touch with Graham for a bit (wanted to sweet-talk him into sending one himself on his own letterhead). This is a dropped ball on my part,the past month has been a little crazy.

Picking it back up.

Allen Clarke and Graham were in the Fourtones with PUK,but he didn't play in the Hollies.

[Flodigarry]

The Dems have been big on talking about all the [dubious] cases where folks have been bankrupted due to excessive health care costs or lack of coverage.

Just think of how the Dems favored criminal class will increase in numbers due to all the bankrupts/tax evading/insurance dodging scofflaws a health care insurance mandate will generate.

But will the Dems be able to count on their votes?

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Okay, I'm doing the Martha Zoller Show tomorrow at 0820 MT, Bill&Joel at 0830MT, taping Jim Pfaff fir next week; maybe Jayne Carroll Fri 1607.

Whoof.

[Rocco]

No rush Hit, we have a year to get their attention. It might be a good idea to flood them with petitions after they receive one with Graham's name on it, (whether he sends one himself, or you use his name) and then perhaps a couple each month as a reminder.

[Captain Hate]

Frau, there was a documentary on PBS a number of years ago that covered Patches first Congressional election in RI and made it clear what a complete moron he was and unqualified for any elected office. I was shocked that it was on PBS (and I'm sure whoever did it has been frozen out of subsequent gigs) but have to give credit for that one.

[Old Lurker]

"guess what? i have a life, and it doesn't revolve around being soooo liked around here."

Glad to hear that. What confuses me is that you spend so much time here, you obviously see that we like each other, quirks and all, so why do you go out of your way to offend so many? Seems odd. And counterproductive at the same time.

[clarice]

Chaco, I feel I will go around saying I knew that Martin guy when.........

[Old Lurker]

Ain't it the truth, Clarice? Where are you traveling?

[clarice]

Hit--You are right about the Hollies. Just let me know when or if you need me to send in a version of the petition, please.

[Fritz]

Glad to see Obama has improved his security...

Unwitting tourists attend White House breakfast - Shake Hands with President

[clarice]

I'm in Longboat Key Fla,OL

[Charlie (Colorado)]

I'm in Longboat Key Fla

Wave to my outlaws, they have a place on Siesta Key. Or had, anyway.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Chaco, I feel I will go around saying I knew that Martin guy when.........

me too.

[Old Lurker]

Stay there 183 days and you will save a bunch of DC tax.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

BTW, more on the Pachauri financial connections in Copenhagen.

[clarice]

Chaco, all of us fighting this stupidity --certainly you--deserve a high five. Even Gore who is also screaming the earth is about to boil over and give him more money now recognizes that Copenhagen is a bust and Surber credits climategate for shutting this down:
http://blogs.dailymail.com/donsurber/archives/5977

IOwn the World asks why is insulation so sexy that Obama wants cauling for cah when at the same time he claims the world is heating up? Smartasses everywhere.

[clarice]

**caulKing for caSh***

[Frau Nervös]

Unwitting Georgia couple at WH breakfast. - I bet the grits weren't worth a tinker's darn.

Capt.- I've always felt so sorry for Joan Kennedy. She didn't know what was in store for her. Jackie O. knew how to roll with the punches. You are right; the person who made the Patches PBS program has had to change his/her name.

[clarice]

OL, I may do that in the future but not for a while.

[RichatUF]

Humm curious Charlie, I looked up the 990 and it appears they have written 2 grants to TERI-India for 54k, collected 125k in 07 and 68K in 08 and the only paid employees are Dr. Pachauri ($45,791 for 52 hrs of work last year) and Dr. Srivastava ($43,379 for 52 hours of work last year). Here is a link if someone wants to give it to EU Referendum.

Pretty tough to credit they didn't engage in lobbying activities when their mission statement is in part: "CONTINUE TO SENSITIZE, THROUGH POLICY ANALYSIS AND TARGETED OUTREACH, THE DECISION-MAKERS AND GLOBAL INFLUENCERS IN NORTH AMERICA US AND CANADIAN GOVERNMENTS, WORLD BANK, UN AGENCIES, FOUNDATIONS, THE CORPORATE SECTOR) ON ISSUES OF IMPORTANCE/CONCERN TO DEVELOPING
COUNTRIES THROUGH VARIOUS MEDIA."

[Old Lurker]

Me too, C.

[Frau Nervös]

Obama and caulking - after looking at the caulking gun up close and personal, I think Pres. Transparency has been talking to his Safe Schools Czar. Even Mae West would not make a comment.

Hit - you have been so generous with your time and energy in helping us with PUK's death. Thank you again.

[clarice]

HEH, Frau!
I was thinking today that hearing of Hit's new position is for me the best holiday present of all.

[RichatUF]

Interesting board too: not sure if it is the same person, but a former Hillary Clinton staffer maybe listed as a director.

Possibly found a lawyer and former employee of GE Capital too.

[Dave (in MA)]

">http://seemybutton.com/ebay/obama-doobie.jpg">
I guess I misunderstood the title of this thread.

[ROA]

One time Pachauri flew from New York to Delhi and back over the weekend to practice cricket. He then made a second trip to play the game. Very environmentally sensitive.