I Believe It Is Carbon Emissions Control In Our Time

Obama manages to announce a climate deal at Copenhagen but the Times does not reward him with a sloppy kiss and a fawning headline.  The website has this:

Many Goals Remain Unmet in 5 Nations’ Climate Deal

The Saturday Dead Tree has more:

Nations Forge Pact On Climate; Goals Go Unmet
A "Breakthrough" Is Declared By Obama But Many Nations Remain Unhappy

Well, it beats "Copenhagen 2, Obama Nothing".

The follow-up action at the convention was inconclusive at best:

U.N. Climate Talks ‘Take Note’ of Accord Backed by U.S.
By ANDREW C. REVKIN and JOHN M. BRODER

COPENHAGEN — With the swift bang of a gavel on Saturday morning, a prolonged fight between nations small and large over an international pact to limit climate risks that was forged the night before by the United States and four partners came to a somewhat murky end.

The chair of the climate treaty talks declared that the parties would “take note” of the document, named the Copenhagen Accord, leaving open the question of whether this effort to curb greenhouse gases from the world’s major emitters would gain the full support of the 193 countries bound by the original, and largely failed, 1992 Framework Convention on Climate Change.

A recent Rasmussen poll showed that the US is about as skeptical about man-made global warming as they are about Obama's health care, so Obama is on the precipice of two pre-Christmas "successes".

PILING ON:  The WaPo reports on a Gallup poll showing broad opposition to paying down our "carbon debt" to the Third World:

Most, however, oppose a widely floated proposal in which the United States and other industrialized countries would contribute $10 billion a year to help developing countries pay for reducing the amount of greenhouse gases they release. Overall, 57 percent of those polled oppose this idea; 39 percent support it. Most Republicans (74 percent) and independents (58 percent) are against this proposal, while a small majority of Democrats (54 percent) are supportive.

Geez, what's with this "Show me the money" attitude?  Can't these other countries settle for bows and apologies?

TUVALU, WE HARDLY KNEW YE:  The closing day of the Copenhagen Debacle was hot, hot hot!  Godwin's law was invoked after a death camp comparison, a Venezuelan delegate put a McDonalds Ketchup pack to creative use, and the representative from Tuvalu denounced the accord:

Tuvalu's Ian Fry, whose country is one of the most at risk from global warming, said the agreement amounted to Biblical betrayal.

"It looks like we are being offered 30 pieces of silver to betray our people and our future," he said to applause in the chamber which sat through the night.

"Our future is not for sale. I regret to inform you that Tuvalu cannot accept this document."

OK, no peeking - Tuvalu is:

(a) an African island nation in the Indian ocean, near the Maldives;

(b) an independent South American island north of the Falklands;

(c) a picturesque South Pacific atoll near Fiji;

(d) an independent island that is geographically part of the Indonesian archipelago.

The correct answer is - Nobody cares!  But if you persist in wondering, it is a cluster of atolls in the South Pacific settled by Polynesians three thousand years ago, with a current population of about 11,000.  My goodness, I have been to high school football games with more people.  I have probably been in traffic jams with more people.  Due to its geography it is at extreme risk of becoming uninhabitable if oceans rise, so the world wonders - should we spend several hundred billion dollars a year so that this backwater can remain sparsely inhabited, or should we encourage them to, dare we say it, Move On?

There may be other reasons to think we ought to spend massive sums battling global warming (or not), but a cold cost/benefit analysis would point to "Toodle loo, Tuvalu".

DON'T CRY FOR ME, VENEZUELA: 

Much of the anger was directed towards Danish Prime Minister Lars Loekke Rasmussen, the conference's chairman, who was accused of overseeing a stitch-up.

Venezuela's representative Claudia Salerno Caldera said that Rasmussen was "going to endorse this coup d'etat against the United Nations".

"Those of us who wish to speak have to make a point of order by cutting our hands and drawing blood," she added, before opening a red-stained palm.

Nice flair for the dramatic.  But until we get DNA results, I say "ketchup".

Comments

[Jane]

We might as well ban polls. This administration couldn't care less what "the people" think.

We the administration, in order to form a more perfect union...

[clarice]

So the other nations who didn't sign on to this non-binding agreement in principle to try hard or whatever today refuse to do so as I understand it. Man that is "meaningful progress".

[pagar]

The world's largest fraud (global warming) lives on in its quest to destroy the free world.

[Donald]

Um, I guess the agreement was the the US to fork over $100,000,000,000.00 dollars.

Was that like for the hooker bill for the conference? Is it like an endowment for future hooker bills for this and ensuing UN conferences?

[Strawman Cometh]

Unlike warmening, the menhaden crisis is a legitimate concern.

[Melinda Romanoff]

Strawman-

I think we need to make a personal effort to eat as much tuna as we can, so those menhaden stocks can rebuild naturally.

I would venture to guess that removing that pesky "Dolphin free" label would help.

Excuse me, I have to go set some traps.

[Janet]

CO-AUTHOR OF A U.S. SENATE CLIMATE BILL, SENATOR JOHN KERRY

"This can be a catalyzing moment. It's a powerful signal to see President Obama, Premier Wen, Prime Minister Singh, and President Zuma agree on a meeting of the minds. These are the four horsemen of a climate change solution. LUN

Okay...so which guy is which horsemen?
white horse - conquering and to conquer
red horse - take peace from earth
black horse - scales
ashen horse - death
"Authority was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine, and with pestilence and by the wild beasts of the earth."
Revelation 6:1-8

[Cecil Turner]

Oh, this is priceless. No, wait, there is a price tag:

We agree that developed countries shall provide adequate, predictable and sustainable financial resources, technology and capacity-building to support the implementation of adaptation action in developing countries.

Well, that's great, but what does it have to do with reducing GHG emissions that are going to cook us all in our beds? Oh, that's right, we have "pledges" . . . like this one from the worlds greatest emitter:

To reduce carbon intensity 40-40% by 2020 on 2005 level.

Hey, check me if I'm wrong, Scotty (or Wong), but won't that result in an increase in GHG emissions? How's that going to save us? Or is that not the point? In response to the Sudanese Ambassador's claim that this was leading to a new Holocaust (a position on which he is generally assumed to be an expert), the British Environmental Minister provided this clarification:

“We have a choice before us, to accept this document and go forward and start the money flowing and start implementing the decisions under it,” said Environment Minister Ed Miliband. “Then we face the choice that Ambassador Lumumba offers us: it is a choice of disgusting comparisons to the Holocaust which should offend people from across this conference from whatever background they come. And frankly, if is a choice of wrecking this conference.”

Well, I'm just glad this isn't all some sort of income-leveling exercise, as many critics have claimed in the past.

[Old Lurker]

Ah Mel...your comments on the other thread re Elmo and Rugby Road hit awfully close to home. I was a two year old in an apt right there when Dad was in law school. Then again 20+ years later as a B-School student. Mrs. L partied there on her road trips from one of the women's colleges down the valley, but I assure you she wouldn't have anything to do with me in those days.

[clarice]

Maybe this would be a perfect time to revive the US Out of the UN campaign.

[Old Lurker]

Cecil, having done away with income, I believe they have moved on to wealth equalization. When that is accomplished, the only carbon we will need is to light the caves as we draw on the walls.

[Old Lurker]

Wither your guests, Clarice?

[clarice]

Delayed--new estimated time of departure 11:37 (2 hr delay)
Weather in Vt where the flight originates looks good though .

I am so depressed about the health bill and the fact that AGW and the UN still have any credibility at all..Bummer.

[Old Lurker]

Between squeezing the geezers and really sending the bill to our kids, as DoT observed last night, this health care disaster is a remarkable political calculation.

[narciso]

I think this illustration, covers the nature of this project, "Hail the Old Ones" in the LUN

[clarice]

I'm going to do my laps --maybe that will cure the nausea.

[Cecil Turner]

Cecil, having done away with income, I believe they have moved on to wealth equalization.

Good point. (Though the "income" part probably still applies to the Chinese efforts.)

[Cecil Turner]

I see from today's WaPo that the subsidies to developing countries aren't very popular:

Most, however, oppose a widely floated proposal in which the United States and other industrialized countries would contribute $10 billion a year to help developing countries pay for reducing the amount of greenhouse gases they release. Overall, 57 percent of those polled oppose this idea; 39 percent support it. Most Republicans (74 percent) and independents (58 percent) are against this proposal, while a small majority of Democrats (54 percent) are supportive.

Drilling down to their actual survey question I find that appears to be accurate:

It's been proposed that the United States and other developed countries contribute 10 billion dollars a year to help developing countries pay for reducing the amount of greenhouse gases they release. Is this something you support or oppose?

Which makes one wonder what the response would be if they learned the actual price tag was ten times that:

Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton has promised the United States will help raise $100 billion annually . . . [emphasis added]

I suspect it wouldn't make all that much difference, even though it should.

[Jim Ryan]

Did you miss the documentary on Henrik Svensmark: Cloud Mystery? It's an hour long, in six parts. Very interesting.

Svensmark's work purports to show that since cosmic rays floating in from all over the galaxy ionize molecules in the atmosphere and these ions cause water vapor to form droplets and therefore clouds, and since the solar magnetic cycles block sometimes more and sometimes less of these cosmic rays, the explanation for global warming and cooling ups and downs is in solar cycles. Longer-time-scale cycles (on the order of tens of millions of years or so) are explained by the earth's passing through the more ray-intense galactic arms of the Milky Way. Interesting data from geology, too.

The data presented in the documentary seems to be robustly confirming.

[James, Iowa]

Humans are likely sending enough greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere to influence earthly temperatures a bit, but the fact they have remained stable for a decade testifies to more powerful external forces controlling our climate.

The scientists of Climate gate have polluted the data so we have no reasonable way of knowing what is right and wrong. If the world is really so close to the edge let us spew out more So2 which counterbalances Co2.

This is nothing but financial and political extortion.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Was that like for the hooker bill for the conference?

Nah, the hookers were working for free.

[pagar]

"This is nothing but financial and political
extortion"
Welcome aboard, James, Iowa!

Here's the background on the AARP ripoff as outlined @Big government. Could AARP be running a worse scam than ACORN? Why can't these frauds be closed down?

"So, in short, the Obama Health Care Scheme puts hundreds of millions of dollars in AARP’s coffers by forcing seniors off of Medicare Advantage and into MediGap programs. You would think that this was enough of a payback to the AARP for their support. But Big Government now reveals another little prize that has been awarded to AARP in time for their recent official endorsement of the Senate Bill."

"The AARP Foundation will have received over $100, 000, 000 dollars in Federal grants by the end of this fiscal year."

[Jim Ryan]

"The AARP Foundation will have received over $100, 000, 000 dollars in Federal grants by the end of this fiscal year."

It's teh kleptocracy.

There's no such thing as fascism or leftism. There is only kleptocracy.

[Neo]

Hey, I'm here in PA-6 .. whatever they did in Copenhagen worked immediately.

[PD]

We might as well ban polls. This administration couldn't care less what "the people" think.

That can be a sign of principle. Bush didn't stick his finger to the wind to test the latest polling on security issues, and several of us here (including myself) admire him for it. He did what he thought was right, regardless of cost to himself.

In B+ Obama's case, however, no principle is involved except personal self-aggrandizement. He's doing what he thinks is right ... to elevate himself.

I want him driven from office in disgrace.

[pagar]

"He's doing what he thinks is right"

To bankrupt this nation. I don't believe he is doing it on his own. Someone is pulling his strings.

PD. Your entire post is good, but Your last sentence is 100% the key message.

[windansea]

Mr Mikey Mann has an editorial at the WAPO were he offers lame excuses for the emails.

The commenters are HAMMERING him without mercy.

He should have stayed at Joe Romms Climate Progress where he was protected from inconvenient comments.

Go read and comment, it will make you feel better. :)

[J.]

I don't think the healthcare bill holds together the 60 votes.

The pressure has to be getting worse for red state Democrats on this.

Likely some who have committed on this like Casey, Dorgan, Conrad and Baucus are secretly hoping there is no vote as well.

[NopeItAin'tGettinWarmerYouFool]

NOPENHAGEN Muuuuaaahhhhhhaaaaaaa!!!!!

[clarice]

windansea, he sure is!!!

[Porchlight]

PD, absolutely agree with your last comment.

[Tully]

“Carbon extortion with honour!”

(”Oh, don’t take it so seriously. That piece of paper is of no further significance whatever.” –A. Schicklgruber)

[Neo]

It's really got to be discouraging for Obama to go to Copenhagen and seem not to be able to find anybody willing to take our China's money.

[Neo]

My two Senators, Casey and Specter, seem to be emulating the Palestinians ... worst negotiators ever.

[J.]

Senator Boxer seems happy about the negotiations w/ Nelson over taxpayer funded abortion.

Stupak is against the Nelson deal.

Right to Life orgs have come out against the Nelson deal.

I'm wondering what exactly Nelson got for his state goodies. I'm not seeing much.

Catholic Church may weigh in.

[J.]

Casey was spineless on this.

[fiona]

scheduled for January - immigration bill enabling new Democratic voters by the millions - do you wonder the D's are not worried about 2010?

[clarice]

fiona, I think this is the last great initiative we'll see out of the Dems and it will be repealed by a furious electorate. If amnesty is seriously pushed instead of pretend pushed for political reasons, the country will explode.

The Dems think by taxing years before the new healthcare provisions take effect they've pulled the wool over everyone's eyes--but I think a lot of deleterious effects will make themselves known immediately . And remember this is an administration that can't punch its way out of a paper bag..can you imagint e the early snafus?

[Rick Ballard]

Another very very good and very detailed piece at AT regarding actions by Jerks of the Inner Circle of Climate Scientology acting to suppress a paper. Douglas and Christy may have a cause for action on this one. This is the type of shenanigans in which the Team engaged (with the very active support of the NYT climate whore, Andy Revkin) for years.

ION - I don't believe I've ever seen a better exposition of the shear stupidity of AP reporting than this AP shill for gas.

But the fuel has to be plentiful and its price stable -- and that has not always been the case with natural gas. In the 1990s, factories that wanted to burn gas instead of coal had to install equipment that did both because the gas supply was uncertain and wild price swings were common. In some states, because of feared shortages, homebuilders were told new gas hookups were banned.

It's a different story today. Energy experts believe that the huge volume of supply now will ease price swings and supply worries.

Gas now trades on futures markets for about $5.50 per 1,000 cubic feet. While that's up from a recent low of $2.41 in September as the recession reduced demand and storage caverns filled to overflowing, it's less than half what it was in the summer of 2008 when oil prices surged close to $150 a barrel.

So, the idiot writing the piece describes a market range from $2.41 to $11 (it was actually higher) in 18 months just after declaring "It's a different story today."

I suspect that the "different" part probably involves healthy payoffs to high ranking Dems - such as Speaker Pelousi.

[Manuel Transmission]

Rick,

I have a friend in the oil patch bidness and he just told me that the newer (unconventional) efforts at retrieving gas need $6 to turn a profit. At $4 they will go bust. Shades of the '80s.

[megapotamus]

Fry doesn't sound like a Tuvaluvian name to me. Sounds French.

[Neo]

China also took note of the corruption endemic in Europe’s [cap-and-trade] system

It has long been considered that the US was the target of this massive redistribution of wealth, but for a moment, consider the case that over time the biggest "target" of this scheme turned out to be China ... and China wanted no part of it. The irony of communist China being against "wealth redistribution" is just so far out there.