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December 15, 2009



We've seen them like this before

Tom Bowler

I will guess that the ashes of this bill will provide fertilizer for a modest, sensible centrist bill, which will emerge in 2011 for Obama's re-election push.

And that will leave the option open for future industry takeover attempts.

Barry Dauphin

What point is healthcare reform is humanity is driven to hanging on to the last iceberg with the last polar bear?


At some point government debt and deficits will override all talk of expensive new entitlements. If a few states go bankrupt and interest rates rise modestly then health care reform will fade away until prosperity returns.

Old Dad

It's a lame, not to mention stupid, attempt to give the Senate Dems a little cover.

Blue Dog: "You see, I voted for this abortion because The Messiah said it was man's last best chance."

Voters: "You're fired, and he's an idiot."


Once this turkey goes down, no politician whose seat is not completely rotten will go anywhere near "Health Care Reform" in any form for a long time--see, e. g. 1994; see also "Social Security Reform.


Hot Air says Nelson has been threatened with the closing of Nebraska’s Offutt Air Force Base, which will make 10,000 more unemployed and get rid of StratCom.

That's a hefty price.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

D.C. Council passes bill legalizing same-sex marriage


From what I can tell, the meeting is over and there is still no health care bill. Is it clearer to anyone else?

sammy small

If a few states go bankrupt

I believe that the CA Atty Gen investigated that possibility and found that the U.S. Constitution does not allow states to declare bankruptcy.

I imagine that CA will continue to spend and borrow until no one buys their bonds anymore. Then they will issuse "chits" instead of money, and soon thereafter will default completely on payroll and other debts.

CA is in an unrecoverable financial death sprial. Now its just about when and how bad the effects hit everyone.


The US Constitution doesn't permit states to go bankrupt? Which section is that in?


That is, I think the CA Atty Genl is blowing smoke up someone's anal aperture.

Anyway, I'd sure like to see which section of the Constitution that's in. Since it can't be in Articles II, III, V, VI, or VII, and it sure as heck isn't in IV, it must be in I and I just don't see it.


By what mechanism would a state declare bankruptcy? It's not an individual, a corporation, etc, etc.


Nelson has been threatened with the closing of Nebraska’s Offutt Air Force Base

If I were Nelson, I'd get the threat out to the public on Hot Air and then dare Obama to try.

Rick Ballard

The CA AG may have said (and certainly meant) the US Code pertaining to bankruptcy which makes no provision for the bankruptcy of a state. There might be a small Tenth Amendment problem if it did.


"which will make 10,000 more unemployed and get rid of StratCom."

Knowing who is in charge of our defenses, that may have been the goal all along.


Call his bluff, Nebraska..He's a paper pussy cat.


It doesn't matter if a State can technically declare bankruptcy. When it spends more than it takes in, it can only borrow the difference. At some point the lenders will dry up and the State will no longer be able to pay its bills. For all practical purposes it is bankrupt.

When teachers stop being paid and there is no longer gas in the tanks of government vehicles I think there will be no talk of expanded entitlements.


I'm kinda curious what happens with the bonds of the state that does go bankrupt.... ducking here...

Rick Ballard

If they don't clash they can be used as borders and trim for rooms papered in Russian Imperials or Argentine Sovereigns.


Looks like SEIU and AFL-CIO will oppose or at minimum not support the Reid Bill..Nutroots turning on Reid...call all the left wing Senators and urge them to stand firm against the bill says Allahpundit, and this time I agree with him. Let the Dem civil war begin.

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/12/16/collapse-afl-cio-seiu-hold-emergency-meetings-may-oppose-obamacare/> Fight on Oh Redmen


Five Senate Dems vote for Crapo Amendment to recommit the bill because it violates Obama's no new taxes pledge:
" five moderate Democratic senators -- Bayh, Cantwell, Klobuchar, Lincoln, and Ben Nelson -- did vote for it. In effect, they acknowledged that the bill will raise taxes on the middle class. If health care legislation is to pass, Democrats will need every vote of their sixty senators. If any of these five Senators they vote for the Senate's health care reform bill in the end, they will be doing so having agreed that the bill raises taxes and is in violation of the president's famous campaign pledge.

In any event, the five senators who broke ranks to support the Crapo amendment have irked the Senate Democratic leadership. "I urge my colleagues to recognize the Crapo motion to commit for what it really is, and what's that? It’s an attempt to kill health care reform. That’s all it's all about. Nothing more, nothing less," said Senator Max Baucus, D-Mont., the Senate Finance Committee chairman who had a leading role in crafting the health care bill.

Perhaps Baucus ought to consider what this tells us about the Senate's health care proposal. If you can't ensure that it complies with the President's pledge not to raise taxes without killing the bill and starting over -- maybe the bill does deserve to die."

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/Five-Dem-Senators-say-health-care-bill-violates-Obama-no-taxes-pledge-79429942.html>Let this be a harbinger


Thanks for the Examiner link, clarice, I think I was getting the threads mixed up. This is the amendment Stephanopoulos called "mischievous" when it was floated last month. Ridiculous. Still, I'm surprised that Klobuchar and Cantwell voted for it.

I do think it's worth it to call lefty Dems and tell them to vote no on the bill. My senators are already no votes but what the heck, I'll call some others.


But...but..... I thought Obama was going to unite us.......


Porch, I don't want to get overly optimistic..I do think a lot of people are playing very Byzantine games and holding their cards close to their chests, but I found the Examiner article heartening.


Clarice, glad you posted that, because my guess is that dem senators in states that lean conservative ( Va Ind Neb Mont Ark LA) are NOT going to fall on the sword for a crap bill just to save a one term loser's legacy--even if Joe Lieberman does end up voting for it. And I don't think that Joe would vote for it if he thought it would pass--not with Aetna in his state. Note to stupid democrats--evil insurance companies employ MILLIONS of American voters--dimwits.

Oh, and I just heard that that horrible Jane Hampster (I know that's not her name, but she looks like one...) at Fire Dog Lake used to date the marxist thug Andy Stern. Figures. Typical leftist scum.


I wouldn't put it past Obama to associate himself with the Crapo Five at some point with an "as I've always said" fiscal responsibility speech. Maintaining his deniability about any particular plan until a clear winner emerges exemplifies the self-centered opportunist Obama is. A majority of the public may not get him yet, but the senators now surely do.


I hope you're right, verner. It's not just that the insurance companies employ many people, but as well they are in lots of portfolios and as cathyf notes they do keep costs down.


Deb, Obama is a 47 year old egoist who has always had everything handed to him on a silver platter. He's never had a real job in his life. He was Emil Jones' yes man for ten years, and didn't do jack as a US senator. He doesn't know what the hell he's doing, and is in way way over his head.

And his popularity numbers are falling like a rock in spite of the fact that his fat butt wife is on the cover of every other woman's mag at the check out counter with some accompanying gushing puff piece telling America more fabulous stuff about the Obamas.

Of course all the old hands on the Hill know all of that. They have pollsters and focus groups. Why do you think all the blue dogs in the House are throwing in the towel ahead of the 2010 elections?

I'm starting to feel more optimistic. If things stay on this trajectory, he'll end up with numbers lower than Bush's nadir by next summer, the repubs will retake the Congress, and we'll have a return to Clinton's second term.


Clarice, if they really want to solve the health care crisis, they would turn Medicare over to the insurance companies. Unlike the federal government, they have an interest in eliminating waste and fraud.

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