News You Need

Jenny Sanford, the First lady of South Carolina, is filing for divorce, presumably to pursue a relationship with Tiger Woods.

Comments

[centralcal]

LOL, Tom.

[JM Hanes]

Et tu, TM?

[Menlo Bob]

I'm having some problems with your logic. Wouldn't Jenny Sanford be distancing herself from a Woods type? Her association with Tiger might revolve around obtaining tips on gripping a sand wedge from Elin?

[Tom Maguire]

Et tu, TM?

I will not be pursuing a relationship with Tiger.

I'm having some problems with your logic. Wouldn't Jenny Sanford be distancing herself from a Woods type?

Sorry, no logic other than every woman in the news seems to have a thing with Tiger. She is obviously too educated and tony to be his type. Tiger seems to have as a life coach an eighteen year old who writes letters to Penthouse.

[rse]

Let's compare the despicable conduct of Tiger Woods that the media was willing to cover up for a long time with the despicable Sanford conduct.

Did anyone else notice that the Sanford story broke soon after his balking over taking ARRA funds because of the terms attached?

or the Baucus/US attorney story breaking when he was unhappy with the public option terms of the Senate bill?

Infidelity only seems to matter to the MSM if your political views are no longer useful or are a roadblock.

[daddy]

Any bets on how long before there's an 'ahem' Movie out about Tiger's Wood?

My guess is that it comes out prior to "The Tiger Wood's You Didn't Know" paperback, soon to be available in a Supermarket check-out aisle near you.

[matt]

"A Tiger in your Tank" will hit the XXX stores in 2 weeks....

[Jane]

Infidelity only seems to matter to the MSM if your political views are no longer useful or are a roadblock.

I blame Rahm.

Apparently Elin has given Tiger an ultimatum - golf or her.

[Thomas Collins]

OK. Jane is posting on Tiger, so I will stick my finger in the Tiger comment cage.

Rich celebrity uses his riches and celebrity status to bed babes. Wife beats him up and smashes the back window of his car. Celebrity may or may not try to patch things up with wife, and, as part of patching things up, may have to swear off all those trips. Certain of the babes feel used despite the fact that they knew they were porking a guy who was stepping out.

Could there be any more classic a dog bites man story?

[Ignatz]

--Apparently Elin has given Tiger an ultimatum - golf or her.--

Source, Jane?

[Thomas Collins]

Ignatz, see LUN for what may be Jane's source. Read through to the end of the article (the first part doesn't mention Tiger possibly quitting).

[Thomas Collins]

See LUN for Carrie Underwood's commentary on these matters.

[fdcol63]

" ... to pursue a relationship with Tiger Woods ..."

Only if she's blonde. LOL

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

Apparently Elin has given Tiger an ultimatum - golf or her.

Oh for cryin' out loud, divorce the man and take your millions, but don't deprive the rest of us of watching him play. Why is it that if a man or woman screws up in their personal life we think it okay to destroy them and their ability to earn a living or do what they do best.

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet]

fddcol:

So you think Tiger's babes are "really" blonde? Pulllleeeeze.

[JM Hanes]

The press giveth and the press taketh away. I just hope someone will shout fore if the unfortunate couple's accommodation includes a public apology from Tiger with Elin standing silently by. That's something I really don't want to see.

[Captain Hate]

"A Tiger in your Tank" will hit the XXX stores in 2 weeks

Tiger's Wood

[Jane]

Source, Jane?

TC had it right. And don't ask me to admit I read that.

[Ignatz]

--Apparently Elin has given Tiger an ultimatum - golf or her.--

--Oh for cryin' out loud, divorce the man and take your millions, but don't deprive the rest of us of watching him play.--

Yeah. Can't that bitch Elin get her priorities straight?
#1. Everybody gets to watch Tiger at Augusta.
#2. Millions of dollars.
#3, albeit a distant #3. A saved marriage to a man who reearns her trust and an intact family for her kids.

[Dave (in MA)]

"A Tiger in your Tank"

You're showing your age.

And mine.

[MoodyBlu]

See LUN for Carrie Underwood's commentary on these matters.

Carrie Underwood! Damn, just damn.

[JM Hanes]

Sara:

First, Elin should have thought about her kids before she made a public spectacle of herself on the front lawn.

Now, she should be thinking about Obama's fans, and just let him get back to golf course where he belongs.

What's wrong with this picture?

[Thomas Collins]

Jane, I'm always happy to admit I read gossip mags, visit gossip sites and follow sports. But on whether I glance at page 3 of The Sun, I take the Fifth! :-))

[Sue]

Carrie Underwood...Elin's role model? ::grin::

[bgates]

Tiger's Wood

Phrases golf announcers won't be able to use anymore:

Looks like he's got a wood
He's taking out the thunder stick
He got into some trouble with the back nine
As strong as he is as a front runner, Tiger's always had trouble coming from behind
A nice little up-and-down
We're still wondering when someone will come up from college who can really take him on
He's longer than just about everybody out here, but he could use more control
With that kind of length advantage, he almost doesn't need to mark his balls

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

JMH: Yes, when your children's future depends on their father being able to earn a living and do what he was born to do, you should think about those things. She was wronged. He is a scumbag for wronging her. But, what does that have to do with his ability to earn a living, fulfill legal contracts, etc?

You think I'm being cold about it. Well, maybe I am, but that is between the two of them and has nothing to do with any of us. And you can't seriously believe if he quits for her that it will bring them closer, can you? It isn't like he is running off to the golf course on a Sunday instead of taking her and the kids to the mall. It is his living. It is the reason she can get $100 mill and move on.

And I can certainly have sympathy for her, but I guess not enough to want to see the man destroyed.

The PGA and golf TV are predicting that without Tiger, viewership takes a 50% hit. There are other golfers on the tour whose own income is dependent on the commercial appeal of the sport. It isn't all about her, no matter how much sympathy she deserves.

According to polls, 60% of men and 40% of women are involved in extramarital affairs, should they all have their abilities to earn a living be destroyed, should they all have their lives ruined? Or should they take the practical route and move on? Yes it is hard, the emotional toll is steep, but it isn't life ending and no one has committed murder here.

[Ann]

bgates:

Your comments need to come with a warning to swallow first before reading.

(I am sure I tee'd that up for someone.) :)

[Captain Hate]

I really admire the contrast between Jenny Sanford and the Donk doormats of Muffer Stalin-Rodham and Elizabeth "will she ever die" MacBeth Edwards. Rather than blame her problems on some "right wing conspiracy" or whoever the harridan Liz holds culpable in her addled power-hungry mind, Jenny has recognized the true source of the problem in her marriage: A husband who doesn't love her. Get rid of the bum and move on!

[Thomas Collins]

No more irony updates on your blog, JMH? What gives?

I know, you're busy. So am I. But I didn't attract an irony fans following. You did. And your fans are restless for more, JMH. :-))

[JM Hanes]

Sara:

"You think I'm being cold about it."

No, I think your comments just scream double standard.

[glasater]

Tiger was always throwing little tantrums when things weren't going his way during a tournament. It has always been--let's tiptoe until Tiger gets his mojo back.
I don't see how he can possibly play any pro golf for quite some time.
There would be catcalls from the crowd and I don't think he could take that from the temperament he's displayed in the past.
And I'll bet some of the other players on the tour won't be too sorry if Tiger is out of it a long while.

[JM Hanes]

Thomas Collins:

I decided to make it a weekly Sunday affair -- and am hoping I can actually manage to git 'r done for two weeks running. I wouldn't want to disappoint my fan!

[Porchlight]

Muffer Stalin-Rodham

*snort*

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

Well, JMH, then you misread my comments. I'm not going to spend 2 paragraphs on Tiger's piggishness with every post. I assume that JOM readers are intelligent enough to know what is already a given.

[Thomas Collins]

You left out the "s" at the end of "fan", JMH. In any event, we'll be patient for the next installment.

[hit and run]

bgates:
Phrases golf announcers won't be able to use anymore:

Tiger's ball lipped out.
He really spanked that one.
He's pulling out a wood here,he's looking to hit this one hard.
That was a beautiful stroke.
No one swings the stick like Tiger.

And Tiger's new catchphrase:

"Driver? I hardly even know her. But,ok."

[Jane]

But on whether I glance at page 3 of The Sun, I take the Fifth! :-))

Is that the naked woman on Sunday?

[hit and run]

Sara:
Yes, when your children's future depends on their father being able to earn a living and do what he was born to do, you should think about those things

Really?

If Tiger doesn't continue playing golf it's curtains for his kids financially? They'd be out on the streets or something?

And what, is their identity is so wrapped up in their dad playing golf because that's "what he was born to do" that it would crush them psychologically?

Poppycock.

I think an Elin ultimatum that he give up golf is dumb -- but "Let Tiger Play Golf...For The Kids™" is well...........

[centralcal]

I dunno - has Tiger ever had a job, job? I mean he is a golfer - has been since he was a kid. Does he really know how to DO anything, but play golf?

I don't think golf is Tiger's, uh, problem. It is faithfuless, fidelity, love for another (others-he has kiddies) beyond himself.

Elin may lash out at golf and the golf world, but really her anger and her hurt were caused by the man - Tiger.

[Captain Hate]

Phrases golf announcers won't be able to use anymore:

He really let the shaft out on that one

[JM Hanes]

If you think I'm looking for diatribes on piggishness, then you've mistaken my meaning.

As far as I can see, you seem to think that Tiger's responsibilities consist of playing golf and raking in mega bucks. His wife is responsible for virtually everything else, including making sure that nothing gets in his way, which you apparently think she ought to do by taking his money and shutting the hell up -- she stands to get big money, after all, so she's got nothing to complain about.

[hit and run]

Sara:
You think I'm being cold about it. Well, maybe I am, but that is between the two of them and has nothing to do with any of us.

Let's keep our noses out of their business!!!!

Oh for cryin' out loud, divorce the man and take your millions, but don't deprive the rest of us of watching him play.

You stick your nose in,you keep your nose out,you stick your nose in and you shake it all about.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

JMH: I don't think it is Elin's responsibility. She obviously can do only one practical thing and that is take the money and get out. I see no purpose in feeling sorry for either of them for something that has only to do with them and not us.

What could Tiger possibly do at this point to make things right between them? Nada. Not a damn thing. So, get on with it. It isn't accomplishing anything on either Elin's or the kids' behalf to make jokes and castigate him in public. It probably makes it worse for her. So, from my point of view, I'm the one on her side. What would satisfy you and Hit and the rest, brand Tiger with a giant A on his forehead? How 'bout ban him forever from the game of golf? Or maybe we need tar and feathering and a lynching?

[anduril]

News you need: Ubuntu-ready Dell desktop looks like a nettop. Compact computing.

[centralcal]

Maybe, just maybe, Tiger is re-thinking his life per FNC Special Report and breaking news.

[Sue]

Apparently Tiger feels he needs to try and repair his marriage. He is taking an indefinite break from golf. Poor golfing world. Deprived of Tiger for an indefinite period of time. What on earth will they do?

[glasater]

Tiger is taking an indefinite leave from golf!!

[centralcal]

Tiger taking a break from professional golf. Let us hope he does because he loves his wife, loves his children, and needs some time for private reflection.

[daddy]

Can't wait for next years Ride-Her Cup.

[glasater]

......he loves his wife, loves his children, and needs some time for private reflection

Very nicely said centralcal....

[JM Hanes]

Sara:

"What would satisfy you and Hit and the rest, brand Tiger with a giant A on his forehead? How 'bout ban him forever from the game of golf? Or maybe we need tar and feathering and a lynching?"

Where on earth does that come from?

[Sue]

::face::

::palm::

You guys are terrible. Funny, but terrible.

[Captain Hate]

Where's bad been? I miss her comments on this thread.

[Jane]

Well I think Tiger's decision means that he wants to save his marriage and those are the terms she dictated. And I respect that. After all neither one of them have to go forward.

It also helps his image - at least to me, but I am obviously inclined to like him.

And I really really will miss him.

[Thomas Collins]

Jane, it's not only on Sunday, if I recall correctly.

[hit and run]

Sara:
So, from my point of view, I'm the one on her side. What would satisfy you and Hit and the rest

What would satisfy me?

Besides the pizza I just had with the kids?

Well.

With all due respect,I would be satisfied if the name Tiger was never mentioned again at JOM in the context of this whole affair.

That would be more satisfying than the pizza and the martinis.

But,alas,that's also a pipe dream.

So in lieu of such nonsense, what would be satisfying is if people saying their sick of the tabloidish coverage would stop tabloidedly covering the twists and turns here. I would be satisfied if we all could agree that ... well,you had it right ... what Tiger and Elin do is Tiger and Elin's business.

Even If That Means They Decide To Do Something You Disagree With.

FULL DISCLOSURE: I haven't read a single thing about Tiger and Elin than what I get here -- and I change the channel when ESPN begins any story about them. So I really have no idea what's going on,unless something is posted here.

And that's more than I want to know.

Silly,I know.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

Tiger's statement today:

I am deeply aware of the disappointment and hurt that my infidelity has caused to so many people, most of all my wife and children. I want to say again to everyone that I am profoundly sorry and that I ask forgiveness. It may not be possible to repair the damage I've done, but I want to do my best to try.

I would like to ask everyone, including my fans, the good people at my foundation, business partners, the PGA Tour, and my fellow competitors, for their understanding. What's most important now is that my family has the time, privacy, and safe haven we will need for personal healing.

After much soul searching, I have decided to take an indefinite break from professional golf. I need to focus my attention on being a better husband, father, and person.

Again, I ask for privacy for my family and I am especially grateful for all those who have offered compassion and concern during this difficult period.

[Captain Hate]

Tiger is taking an indefinite leave from golf!! Women and minorities impacted most!!

[Jane]

Okay to change the subject. I don't think health care is going to pass - that is 2 days in a row, and I think there will be serious pushback on cap and trade and I really really really don't want them to pass the debt ceiling even tho it is tied to the money for the troops. I want them to call their bet.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

Women and minorities impacted most!!

Tiger's Foundation:

Through various programs like the Tiger Woods Learning Center, Tiger's Action Plan and TWF Grants and Youth Clinics, children and teens have not only received encouragement and opportunity, but also strong values and tools needed to achieve their goals. Over the years, the Foundation has also raised and dispersed more than $30 million toward communities nationwide through grants, scholarships and the Tiger Woods Learning Center.

Fundraising efforts have grown immensely since the Foundation’s inception. Events such as the AT&T National, Chevron World Challenge presented by Bank of America, Tiger Jam presented by AT&T and the TWLC Block Party raise millions of dollars every year for TWF programs. Many corporations, foundations and individual donors have also played a crucial role in fostering the Foundation’s growth.

[centralcal]

Hit: Like you, I try to avoid the media reports (most specifically, the tabloid type media) about Tiger.

Jane; One thing I would (lovingly, because I respect you so) caution against is taking media reports "to the bank."

You wrote: "...and those are the terms she dictated." I don't know the source of that information or if it is accurate or trustworthy; see my comments to Hit.

I DO NOT trust the media. Whether about Palin, or W, or Republicans/Conservatives, or Global Warming. I am not really ready to trust them on reporting about Tiger.

I am going to (blindly???) hope that this has been a really traumatic and life altering experience for Tiger.

My prayers are for him, for Elin, and for his children.

[daddy]

Jane,

Sarah's doing a book signing on base here on Sunday.

If I get the chance I'll ask if she'd consider a book signing in Lisa Murkowski's Office to help motivate the troops to turnout on whatever day the Senate votes for this monster. Doubt I'll get the chance though.

[hit and run]

Daddy,I think your best bet is to whisper "narciso" when she's signing your book.

She would understand immediately and listen to anything you have to say.

[Jane]

I DO NOT trust the media.

Yup Centralcal, you are right. But it's okay with me to give Elin that - she's been thru enough. It's not like healthcare or something is dependent on it.

Daddy,

See if you can get her to come to the 4-15-09 Tea party - and you come with her. Hell you can fly the plane!

[Porchlight]

Jane,

What makes you think so, about health care? I am anxious for some good news on this front.

I also can't stop thinking about sushi since your post about the men in the restaurant.

[Thomas Collins]

I hope you're right about health care, Jane, and I'm wrong. Because I think it will go through with Showdown at Gucci Gulch horse trading that will produce a monstrosity of a bill (no real market incentives, rules that will destroy competition and keep a few insurers alive as regulated utilities, mandates for all sorts of nonsense as required coverages, resulting in those most vulnerable getting worse care than they now get at emergency rooms). But the Congresscreeps will continue to have a great plan! And Joe Lieberman will vote to close off debate.

On Cap & Trade (which should be described as establishing the State Religion of Climate Scientology), I don't think it will pass, but I am concerned that the EPA will eventually finalize those regs (hopefully I am wrong about the EPA).

Debt ceiling? It will pass.

Does Sturbridge Village have nice XMas decorations? I've never been there in the winter.

[Jane]

It’s A Climategate Christmas

This is hysterical

[Captain Hate]

I am not really ready to trust them on reporting about Tiger.

Why not? Have they been wrong about anything in Tiger's case? Hell I was stupid enough to think that Barkley and Jordan put him up to this.

[Rick Ballard]

"Does Sturbridge Village have nice XMas decorations?"

Prolly an ecosustainable creche featuring Mother Gaia nursing Baby Barry under the approving gaze of Three Wise Latinas.

[hit and run]

I think Tiger should sign a six seven figure book deal for an autobiography (agreeing with the publisher that it would be about his affairs),then whisk the family to Bali to complete it -- taking as much time as he needs -- and then returning with a book entitled "Dreams from Earl".

[Jane]

What makes you think so, about health care? I am anxious for some good news on this front.

The numbers on Harry Reid's plan are coming back worse than all the others, and the whole point was to "bend the cost curve" - not that they care about that of course - but they have to be hearing the uproar, however faintly - my goodness the roar is deafening at this point to everyone but them. Nancy Pelosi may be willing to lose 40 seats but the residents of those seats may have other ideas - altho I actually think it is too late.

The public does not trust this government and that's not going away whether there is healthcare or not.

Climategate came at the perfect time. Anyone paying attention knows that even scientists are willing to lie to line their pockets with cash. And Al Gore - gee another politician, is their leader.

Once the scoring comes out, Reid will have to go back to the drawing board, which will bring us into next year and too close for comfort to the 2010 election.

Anyway, that's how I feel today. I've been here before and shifted back about 10 times.

TC, I'll let you know in a week as I am going there for a CHristmas party with the Clydesdales - don't ask me why - or if there be room for them at the bar.

It's too damn cold around here.

[Porchlight]

Thanks, Jane. The latest polling did throw things in a new light, plus this fabled deal that nobody seems to think is real let alone any good. Let us hope and pray that the CBO report isn't just a glossover.

[Captain Hate]

Well I think Tiger's decision means that he wants to save his marriage and those are the terms she dictated.

Wrong; these are Tiger and his team's decisions on salvaging his image and it just happens to be what people think Elin would want. The public loves a redemption story and this is tailor made for them. Already people have probably changed from "what a douchenozzle" to "he really wants to make it work". I'll be amazed if he doesn't play the Masters.

[Jane]

Maybe Capn' except if it is a PR stunt it won't work, because their marriage won't work.

[Jane]

This is bad:

ACORN wins in federal court

A federal district judge in Brooklyn today ruled that attempts by Congress and the admnistration to cut off funding to ACORN raised a "fundamental issue of separation of powers" -- and blocked them from taking effect.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

I'll be the first to apologize if I'm wrong, but I think they are both fooling themselves if they think the marriage can recover. How could she ever trust him again and a marriage is doomed without trust. And sooner or later, he'll begin to resent her for making him give up what is his first love, golf. I've seen it too many times with military families, where you can substitute the service name for the word golf.

[Elliott]

Phrases golf announcers won't be able to use anymore

Picked up three consecutive birds.

[Rocco]

Jane

Small world...my oldest used to date a lovely young girl from Sturbridge. Hope I'm not divulging too much info but her dad's a State Trooper.

[Clarice]

Jane from your mouth to God's ears.

[narciso]

Someone mentioned my name, that's a ridiculous
argument, btw, the administration is not be
supportubg such a move, because well, do we even have to spell it out. The President is a log time associate of the organization.

BTW, she will be on the Tonight Show at some point tonigjhr, kind of a last minute thing

[Elliott]

I'll be amazed if he doesn't play the Masters.

So will I, CH. I'm guessing the leave is "indefinite" because he's not sure whether that, Bay Hill, or Doral will be his first event of the year.

[hit and run]

narciso,apparently when they fixed your computer,they gave you clarice's keyboard.

[Elliott]

Phrases golf announcers won't be able to use anymore:

Captain Hate's submission gets my vote as the best. Golf announcers really do say that. I'm sure some of them won't be able to stop.

[narciso]

A policy point, Canada has maybe 30 million people, we have 300 million, how do they think importing even a sizable percentage of
drugs from Canada, will solve the problem.

[Captain Hate]

Jane, I think that their "marriage" is really over as we would understand one. They may have worked out some co-habitation arrangement for the childrens' sake but I'd be surprised if they ever sleep together again.

[narciso]

Tiger dug himself a 'Sandtrap the Size of the Sahara,' he screwed up on a massive scale, but this being said, what is the point. He doesn't make policy, he doesn't even suggest
policy. He's a scoundrel and a jerk, he'll get what's coming to him. it strikes me that the same media which hasn't retracted any of their lies about Sarah, who put Levi on full
rotation, to deliberately rubbish her, isn't
the best judge of what is true ot important

[hit and run]

Phrases golf announcers won't be able to use anymore:

Let's got to the super slo mo here on Tiger. See the rotation in his hips,the way he brings the shaft way past parallel...he is perfectly positioned to uncoil with power.

[Mustang0302]

Tiger Woods Sex Tape Parody. NSFW, but not explicit.

[Jane]

Tsk Tsk Hit!

[hit and run]

Jane,you wouldn't believe how much I am holding back!

And even if you did...imagine how much bgates is sitting on.

NSFW,indeed.

[Captain Hate]

it strikes me that the same media which hasn't retracted any of their lies about Sarah, who put Levi on full
rotation, to deliberately rubbish her, isn't
the best judge of what is true ot important

You've got an apple, orange and a rotten egg. The media has an obvious agenda against Palin and spared no effort to execute it, including dragging a lowlife like Levi out of a dumpster. On the other hand they treated Tiger pretty hands-off regarding his skeezer-fetish which has obviously gone on for quite a while. Which if fine; there was no need to know on any of our parts and, with newspapers being failing rapidly, who has the resources to play private eye on a freakin' golfer. If it wasn't for an incident with a car hitting a fire hydrant in strange circumstances in the middle of the night, we'd still know nothing of this. In the case of Tiger they've pretty much covered things that have been fallen in their laps. My guess is that most of them are Tiger fans.

[Captain Hate]

Which if fine == Which is fine

have been fallen == have fallen

I haven't been drinking. Honest.

[narciso]

I get it CH, much like the Patagonian trek uncovered the rock under which Sanford crawled
out from, and the massacre in Washington State, revealed the nadir of Huckabee's character. Not to mention John Ensign what a piece of work, they paid him to be quiet.

[Melinda Romanoff]

hit-

If you heard the stuff I get from the trading floor, you'd never be able to type again. There is a place with NO mercy, ever.

[Ignatz]

--A federal district judge in Brooklyn today ruled that attempts by Congress and the admnistration to cut off funding to ACORN raised a "fundamental issue of separation of powers" -- and blocked them from taking effect.--

So ACORN is now one of the branches of government?
I'd say Breitbart has his work cut out for him.

[Melinda Romanoff]

Oh, and by the way, Jenny Sanford spent some time at the LUN, where many of our friends and family remember her as one tough, no nonsense girl.

[hit and run]

narciso/daddy...

Just wondering if you've ever encountered the name Kurt Gibson in your adventures in Alaskan politics (oil and gas and pipeline stuff).

Daddy,you and I discussed him briefly this summer -- but I'm just wondering what the deal is now with him.

Because I kinda sorta am in a tangled web in which he is also ensnared.

I might even have some time with him over the holidays.

cf. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/09/AR2008100903429_pf.html>this WaPo article...

[hit and run]

Melinda:
If you heard the stuff I get from the trading floor, you'd never be able to type again.

The VIMH is intrigued by the views from the trading floor and would like to subscribe to its newsletter.

heh.

My mind is right there with them....and yes,I would never type half of what my mind comes up with....

[Melinda Romanoff]

Ig-

Just guessing, but I bet it was a "Bill Of Attainder" approach to the suit that got the ruling as such.

[Melinda Romanoff]

hit-

You would then learn, precisely, the term "phone artillery". in it's most perverse form.

But then you would need to be somewhere with a 30 line AT&T phone to get the "full" effect.