Our Crazies Versus Your Crazies

Sarah Palin proposes a birth certificate swap - Obama's for Trig's.

I mean, truly, if your past is fair game and your kids are fair game, certainly Obama’s past should be. I mean, we want to treat men and women equally, right?

Hey, you know, that’s a great point, in that weird conspiracy-theory freaky thing that people talk about that Trig isn’t my real son. And a lot of people say, “Well you need to produce his birth certificate! You need to prove that he’s your kid!” Which we have done. But yeah, so maybe we could reverse that and use the same [unintelligible]-type thinking on them.

One might wonder whether a national Dem of prominence comparable to hers is making noise about Trig, but she has a modest point about the size of the fever swamps.

MEANWHILE, OVER AT FACEBOOK...  Ms. Palin goes on to distance herself from her remarks:

Voters have every right to ask candidates for information if they so choose. I’ve pointed out that it was seemingly fair game during the 2008 election for many on the left to badger my doctor and lawyer for proof that Trig is in fact my child. Conspiracy-minded reporters and voters had a right to ask... which they have repeatedly. But at no point – not during the campaign, and not during recent interviews – have I asked the president to produce his birth certificate or suggested that he was not born in the United States.

- Sarah Palin

Whatever.  Just spell the name right.

Comments

[hrtshpdbox]

One might wonder whether a national Dem of prominence comparable to hers is making noise about Trig...

Should be easy to figure that one out, as the national Dems with prominence comparable to Palin's makes for a rather short list.

[sylvia]

I'm sure she is the mom, but I saw clips of her when she was supposed to be 7 or 8 months pregnant, and she did not look pregnant. That's prob where the conspiracy theories come from. I wonder if that happens a lot, where you can hardly tell. Maybe because she is a runner. But I agree the bc swap is a good idea.

Speaking of the bc, I notice Joy Behar has not hardly had any conservatives on her show for a while. I think she got a little bit of a come uppance before, when she thought by inviting the conservatives she would make them look foolish, but they were out-talking her on some isues like the bc, and appearing more informed than she was, and she didn't like it. So to keep her world view filtered, she cut back on the conservatives.

The reason I thought that would be interesting to watch on Behar is you hardly ever get to see libs being challenged in the media and I was interested to see how one would react. And she reacted by shutting it down.

[Joan of Argghh!]

I'd put my money on the idea that Sarah knows exactly how the game is played now. She's a hunter, adapter, quick study to new tactics and won't become passive prey again.

As her dad said of her early retirement, to paraphrase, she didn't retreat, she's reloading.

[narciso]

Sylvia, Joy is competing with a testpattern for audience, she had S.E. Cupp and Ann Coulter, on, and they tore her a new one. But that show should die the quiet death of the Jesse Ventura show.

You know where this Trig Trutherism came from, a dodgy character named Gryphen, sponsored by a false front foundation who
supported to change his story. She's a petite woman, with a whole lot of energy
and integrity. That is why they have tried to ruin her. I mean nothing about this administration is kosher, so to speak and they pretend that it is.

[boris]

Facebook Sarah:

Voters have every right to ask candidates for information if they so choose. I’ve pointed out that it was seemingly fair game during the 2008 election for many on the left to badger my doctor and lawyer for proof that Trig is in fact my child. Conspiracy-minded reporters and voters had a right to ask… which they have repeatedly. But at no point – not during the campaign, and not during recent interviews – have I asked the president to produce his birth certificate or suggested that he was not born in the United States.

[Jane]

Perhaps Sarah's biggest asset is how disarming she is.

Keep it up Sarah!

[narciso]

From the LUN, you can see the disingenous hack that is Dan Fagan, I sent him an email
around two weeks back, and the substance of it, seems to have made it into the Eureka
post.

[Extraneus]

An obvious way to attack Obama going into 2012 is to say that he sold us a bill of goods -- that he wasn't who he said he was.

Her bringing up his "past associations" again in the same statement as saying the bc question is "a fair question" indicates to me that it's strategic.

[fdcol63]

I'd like to see some DNA testing, not just a birth certificate.

Compare Obama's DNA with that of other known Obama family members in Kenya.

And also compare it with known family members of Frank Marshall Davis.

I don't think Obama is an Obama at all, and the narrative detailed in Dreams From My Father is a bunch of hooey penned by Bill Ayers.

[anduril]

Time is talking about The End of Audacity, and that may also mean the end of the Democrat Grand Strategy. I was struck by the very tame characterization of the AEI:

When Obama took office, conventional wisdom held that the American people, jarred by a financial crisis they were routinely told was "the worst since the Great Depression," would race into the protective arms of Washington. After all, the Federal Government had given us the New Deal in the worst of times and a patchwork of economic safety nets since. The idea is that we instinctively turn to its beneficent hand to ease the pain of hurricanes, floods, tornadoes--and recessions.

Yet in today's hard economic times, something startling began showing up in public-opinion polls: fewer people than in the past wanted Washington to step in.

...

"What people understand that policymakers in Washington don't is that there's a real belief out there that all government does is waste money," says Doug Schoen, the pollster who helped President Clinton move into the era of "Big Government is over" after the Democrats' 1994 midterm-election drubbing. "Taxes go up. Debt goes up. People think, 'All you're going to do is waste my money and put me in a dire situation.'" Karlyn Bowman, a public-opinion researcher at the conservative-leaning American Enterprise Institute, advances the counterintuitive notion that Americans may be happier with Big Government in good times than in bad.

Resentment may be another factor. While the New Deal is often remembered as a bailout for the little guy, the bailouts of Wall Street--launched by the Bush Administration and sustained by Obama--have been aimed at the affluent and have not merely made Americans skeptical of the explosion in spending but left them feeling shortchanged as well. Republican pollster Bill McInturff calls this "the notion that they're too big to fail and I'm too small to notice--that politicians have used the government to spend another trillion for the big banks and special interests but not me."

It's not hard to find a national consensus that government should lead on matters like national defense, natural disasters, food safety and support for the elderly and poor. But any bold reach beyond the basics becomes problematic when swing voters start to confront costly realities and the soaring sweep of campaign promises gets lost in programmatic details. Since last spring, there has been a sizable drop in the portion of voters who think Washington should guarantee health insurance, with Gallup now recording--for the first time since it began asking the question--more people saying it is not the government's responsibility (50%) than saying it is (47%).

We're now hearing talk from Democrats in Congress about the need for another new jobs program to ease our pain. With unemployment standing at an agonizing 10.2%, there is palpable fear among Democrats that they have little to show for nearly a year in office. But as the 2010 election season opens, they--and the President--would do well to entertain a different fear: looking as if they're doing too much.

[narciso]

Speaking of really crazy, is this decision from Ohio, the home of the mismatched ballots

[Dennis D]

Obama's status as a natural born citizen is " proven science" like global warming.

[narciso]

I wanted to throw something at the set, when they said they wanted to use the TARP funds for another stimulus, well why didn't they do it before, and what about the first
stimulus. I'm still vacilating whether they
are evil or stupid.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Y'know, fdcol63, my first reaction is "who cares?" Its not like Communism is an inheritable genetic defect; Davis' post-natal influence on Obama is way more important than his pre-natal influence.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Speaking of really crazy, is this decision from Ohio, the home of the mismatched ballots

What decision?

[Extraneus]

People might be more receptive to questions about his background and "past associations" now.

[Pofarmer]

So, was that Fagan letter before or after his piece saying he would be disagreeing on policies now?

[Pofarmer]

One might wonder whether a national Dem of prominence comparable to hers is making noise about Trig,

To be fair, didn't the New York Times and Newsweak run stories on that?

And,

It seems the title of the post is a little disingenuous.

[pagar]

Narciso, if you think that one is bad, take a look at the LUN.

"A dozen staffers - including Obama Ohio spokeswoman Olivia Alair and James Cadogan, who recently joined Team Obama - signed a form letter asking the Franklin County elections board to pull their names from the rolls."

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/politics/item_uyTXgiIq3xJxldt6ddGxRJ#ixzz0YjSsdcQM

"You will also see in her linkedin.com profile that she no longer has that position. In April of 2009 she became a Deputy Press Secretary for the Department of Transportation, a politically appointed position. And in just the last couple of weeks the Press Secretary of the DOT, Sasha Johnson, was appointed by the Obama administration to be the FAA head of communications and spokesperson thus leaving the Press Secretary job at the DOT open for Olivia to slide into."
LUN
Instead of jail for voter fraud, Democrats are rewarded with high paying government jobs.
American voters have only themselves to blame for our sorry mess with the Obama Administration.

[anduril]

Two very worthwhile articles at Asia Times Online regarding China's views on Afghanistan. China, of course, like other countries in or abutting the Central Asian region, is concerned that the turmoil in Afghanistan and Pakistan will spill over into China's western area of Xinjiang (actually, it already has).

The first article, Beijing broods over its arc of anxiety sets out in stark terms China's preferred end game for Afghanistan--essentially what has been the status quo for the last two centuries:

Geopolitical logic (and China's interests) would dictate that the West disengage from Afghanistan and the Pashtun brief be placed in the eager if not particularly capable hands of Pakistan.

Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) would see to it that more tractable assets, such as the Haqqanis and Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, would battle the unruly Taliban to a bloody stalemate in Afghanistan's Pashtun regions, decouple the Pakistan Taliban from their Afghan patrons, and restore a semblance of stability to Pakistan's west

Meanwhile, as they have always done, the Afghan Tajiks, Hazaris and Uzbeks would turn to outside aid from some combination of Russia, China, Iran and the United States to contain the Pashtuns and forestall the spread of fundamentalist and al-Qaeda extremist contagion.

China has tried to shape the US debate over Afghanistan, repeatedly making the case for letting nature and anti-Western Pashtun militancy take their course and moving beyond counter-insurgency to reconciliation.

So, Pakistan would see to it that the Pashtuns remain divided and that the various factions are too busy fighting each other to cause or support trouble in Xinjiang. Most importantly, it seems, the US would be out of the region entirely.

The second article (linked in the first), China maps an end to the Afghan war,draws out the implications of China's approach a little further by examining a fairly high level opinion piece that appeared recently in the English Edition of the official China Daily: "Afghan peace needs a map." There can be little doubt that it represents official Chinese opinion.

The author of the linked article acknowledges that the Chinese make several important points, among them:

First, it bluntly calls on Washington to forthwith bring the US military operations in Afghanistan to an end. There are no caveats here while making this demand, no alibis. Simply put, the war has only resulted in aggravating the political and social turmoil in Afghanistan, causing great turbulence and violence and it has brought neither peace and stability as the George W Bush administration promised nor any "tangible benefits" to the US itself.

...

Third, what lies ahead if the US stops its military intervention in Afghanistan? The answer is that it opens the way to a political settlement. And how is it that a settlement can be worked out? The answer is that there is no alternative but to seek a political settlement via national reconciliation. Any reconciliation process must involve all the "key actors that can play an influential role in deciding the country's prospect", especially the Afghan government, the Taliban and the forces that are commonly called "warlords".

Such an approach is predicated on the belief that the Afghan war is also principally a fratricidal strife involving Afghan factions, much as there is currently the "US factor". In actuality, various contending forces are locked in a "chaotic battle" today, which involves the US-led coalition forces, "the Afghan government troops and domestic warlords", the Taliban and al-Qaeda forces. By implication, the battle lines have blurred.

Then, however, the author takes a critical look at what is left unsaid by the Chinese:

What the article doesn't say becomes equally important. One, it differentiates the Afghan problem from the so-called "AfPak" approach. The article doesn't make a single reference to Pakistan, either.

However, it must be assumed that the Chinese perspective disfavors a US military presence in the region as a whole and that includes Central Asia as well as Pakistan. Two, the article puts the primacy on an intra-Afghan search for settlement with the Taliban implicitly as a legitimate Afghan faction. Nowhere does the article even remotely suggest that the Taliban are propped up by Pakistan.

Equally, the article nowhere doubts that the so-called "warlords" can be overlooked as serious protagonists on the political chessboard. This is an endorsement of Karzai's pragmatic approach and a rejection of the opportunistic stance taken by the US and its Western partners to keep out Karzai's allies from the power structure.

Three, the article doesn't visualize the al-Qaeda as a big factor justifying the continuance of the war. Needless to say, the article rejects the contention by NATO that the Afghan war is integral to safeguarding the Western world from threat posed by international terrorism. Again, it is indifferent to the fate of the alliance's much-trumpeted first-ever "out-of-area" operation.

The geopolitics of the war have been completely left out in the article. This is consistent with the Chinese view that the Afghan people should be principally in charge of their destiny. Thus, the article gives the go-by altogether to the controversial thesis propounded by some experts regarding a regional solution to the war, with the US entering into "grand bargains" with the main regional countries such as Russia, China, Iran, India and Central Asian states.

Given China's increasing influence and undoubted interest in this region and in US policy considerations, these article repay careful study.

[narciso]

Considering that there were some 200,000 mismatched ballots, and they won the state
by 30%, including bench residency registrations, one begins to doubt how genuine that result was. It does go to show
what a pusalinamous party we hae. Olbermann
went wild over Ohio's result in 2004, Conyers issued a report, they all blamed the Diebold machines, whereas in a comparable situation,crickets from our side.
And don't even get me started on what the situation was like in Florida, in part thanks to Charmin's Charlie.

[fdcol63]

" .. Davis' post-natal influence on Obama is way more important than his pre-natal influence. "

Charlie, I agree whole-heartedly with this. But the DNA thing would, IMHO, highlight the falsity of the narrative provided in the book, which was the major springboard for Obama's political career.

It motivated a major publisher to advance a 6-figure sum to a relatively unknown and inexperienced just-out-of-Harvard-Law-School grad to write his autobiography.

[Pofarmer]

Geez pagar, these are face palm stories. The fraud going on here by the dim's makes climategate look small.

[narciso]

How exactly did that work before, the ISI thought they could control the Taliban and
Aq from the rump of the Peshawar Seven but that didn't work out that way did it. Instead they created a chimera that ended up wreaking havoc in NY and Washington, and
killed one of their own Prime Ministers.

[anduril]

How soon we forget: Jihad returns to Fort Hood.

[anduril]

And what should that mean to the Chinese? The Paki PM didn't die until we got there. Up till then the ISI was happy with the Afghan/NW Frontier situation, and so, presumably, were the Chinese. I don't doubt the ISI would welcome a return to those halcyon days.

[anduril]

Via Steve Sailer we get the fun theory that Vladimir Putin is behind Email Theftgate: Sen. Boxer: "You call it 'Climategate'; I call it 'E-mail-theft-gate'"

[anduril]

A timely warning from Krugman re a double dip recession:

I’ve never been fully committed to the notion that we’re going to have a “double dip” — that the economy will slide back into recession. But it has been clear for a while that it’s a serious possibility, for two reasons. First, a large part of the growth we’ve had has been driven by the stimulus — but the stimulus has already had its maximum impact on the growth of GDP, will hit its maximum impact on the level of GDP in the middle of next year, and then will begin to fade out. Second, the rise in manufacturing production is to a large extent an inventory bounce — and this, too, will fade out in the quarters ahead.

[anduril]

Here's an interesting example of why AIPAC should be required to register under FARA, and of how agency relationships can work:

In the spring of 1984 the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) and American Israel Chamber of Commerce were in the midst of a pitched battle against American corporations, industry organizations, and worker’s groups. At stake was an Israel lobby bid to open up the vast US market to unrestricted Israeli exports, the first of a series of so-called "free trade" agreements (more accurately described as intergovernmental managed trade deals). 76 major US interest groups from Monsanto and Dow to the AFL-CIO fought a small group of 23 Israel lobby organizations, most with no obvious economic stakes, that pushed President Reagan to sign America’s first formal bilateral trade deal in the midst of economic calamity in Israel.

Covert lobbying assistance for this minority soon arrived in the hands of Israeli Minister of Economics Dan Halpern. According to a recently released, redacted FBI interview transcript (PDF, restored by the author) Halpern mysteriously obtained a 300-page classified US Trade Representative report prepared by the International Trade Commission and secretly delivered it to AIPAC during a 1984 coordinating meeting. Halpern later refused to divulge to the FBI how he obtained the secret report, stating it "would be impossible within the professional ethics of his diplomatic position" to identify the source. The report contained the most sensitive trade secrets and market data of the American industries fighting hardest against the trade deal. It is still considered so sensitive by the US Trade Representative that it remains classified to this day.

According to Dan Halpern’s 1986 FBI interview — which occurred only after he claimed diplomatic immunity from prosecution in coordination with the US State Department — the possession of the report by the Israeli government and AIPAC "caused no economic damage to any US business or interest…

So the situation is this:

1. An Israeli government official obtains a highly classified document--and turns it over to AIPAC. Why?

2. Presumably to assist AIPAC in its lobbying on behalf of Israel.

3. But clearly AIPAC's lobbying in this instance is being directed and assisted by the Israeli Government--to the extent of being provided highly classified USG documents, the fruits of espionage.

4. Therefore, AIPAC should be required to register under FARA. Even though the espionage, to all appearances, was committed by the Israeli government rather than by AIPAC, the fruits of the espionage were willingly accepted by AIPAC from the Israeli Government for the purpose of assisting the Israeli Government in its attempts to obtain a favorable trade deal. A clearcut agency relationship, and should be registered as such.

[PD]

'm sure she is the mom, but I saw clips of her when she was supposed to be 7 or 8 months pregnant, and she did not look pregnant. That's prob where the conspiracy theories come from.

I think you're probably right, but only for people like us who observe from a distance. I understand that all the folks around Wasilla were perfectly aware that Sarah was the mother because by virtue of proximity they could observe the pregnancy to term.

If our worthless media had bothered to actually check with the eyewitnesses, they could have determined this easily. That probably wouldn't convince Sully, but I suspect nothing will.

[Roger Cotton]

There is no such thing as a "truther." There are concerned citizens who want the answer to a simple, yet monumentally important question.

There are also other people who question everything Obama does, yet who don't seem to care why he keeps his personal documents as state-secrets.

It is unseemly for Conservatives to call other Conservatives names. Especially for something as important as wanting to know who the heck Obama really is.

[Neo]

You start to wonder if Obama has hung out with Tiger Woods a bit too much ...

http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/0,1518,665182,00.html
http://ekstrabladet.dk/nyheder/samfund/article1264709.ece

Gropenhagen: Prostitutes Offer Free Climate Summit Sex, if they show identification

I wonder if Michelle knows about this ?

[narciso]

Right, Anduril after CAIR, ISNA, MPAC, and NIAC register, they are certainly more in furtherance of the goals of the Ummah, than
AIPAC with the diaspora. A quarter century ago, give a take, Emerson wrote the House of Saud, Posner, who's been reduced to covering Tiger's prenup, did a decent follow with his book, but that is the bigger threat.

[anduril]

after

CAIR, ISNA, MPAC, and NIAC register

narciso, I think we're making progress! But why "after"? Why not simultaneously? As I've often said, I'm a proponent of rigorous and impartial enforcement of FARA's requirements. This is hardly just a Jewish/Muslim issue, as you choose to frame it--for reasons that are entirely opaque to me. I would certainly wish to apply it to every organization of this sort, whether Chinese, Indian, South Korean, Polish or whatever. If an organization coordinates its activities with foreign powers (whether countries or non-state foreign organizations) to the extent that they can be said to be directed or controlled by those foreign powers, they should be required to register. FARA itself is quite explicit in laying out factors that lead to the need to register.

[anduril]

narciso, I've gotta run, but I'm pleased to have you on board with me on this issue. If you catch any flak--allegations that you've gone over to the dark side, for example--let me know and I'll gladly defend you.

[Patrick R. Sullivan]

But at no point – not during the campaign, and not during recent interviews – have I asked the president to produce his birth certificate or suggested that he was not born in the United States.

And, if you actually listen to the interview, you see she's telling the truth. When she was asked about Obama's birth certificate, she said she wouldn't make it an issue, but that others did. Pretty clever finesse, actually.

[Brian]

2 points.
1. Obama's birth certificate could determine if he is eligible to be president. Trig's birth has no baring on Palin's eligibilty.

If Obama was truely born in Hawaii, why was an apparently fake birth certificate posted on his Website during the campaign. Nobody can argue that the image presented was in any way acceptable, even if the original document it claims to represent was valid, the image quality was too poor and too compromised (photoshop CS3 in the file attributes for example)

[Janet]

I am a birther/crazie because I want to know about the background of our President.
I am a racist because I oppose illegal immigration.
I am a flat-earther because I don't believe in AGW.
I am a bigot because I oppose changing the definition of marriage.

The minute they call me a name, I know I am on the right side of an issue!

[Patrick R. Sullivan]

Let's take a more complete look at the interview. She's asked:

Would you make [Obama's] birth certificate an issue if you ran?

And, she answers, no.

I think the public, rightfully, is still making it an issue. I don’t have a problem with that. I don’t know if I would have to bother to make it an issue ’cause I think there are enough members of the electorate who still want answers.

Then she is asked a different question (about its fairness):

Do you think it’s a fair question to be looking at?

Her answer:

I think it’s a fair question, just like I think past associations and past voting record — all of that is fair game. You know, I’ve got to tell you, too: I think our campaign, the McCain/Palin campaign didn’t do a good enough job in that area. We didn’t call out Obama and some of his associates on their records and what their beliefs were and perhaps what their future plans were. And I don’t think that that was fair to voters to not have done our jobs as candidates and as a campaign to bring to light a lot of the things that now we’re seeing made manifest in the administration.

And, this is where we came in, the interviewer asks:

I mean, truly, if your past is fair game and your kids are fair game, certainly Obama’s past should be. I mean, we want to treat men and women equally, right?

Iow, that wasn't a question about Obama's birth certificate at all. Nor was her answer:

Hey, you know, that’s a great point, in that weird conspiracy-theory freaky thing that people talk about that Trig isn’t my real son. And a lot of people say, “Well you need to produce his birth certificate! You need to prove that he’s your kid!” Which we have done. But yeah, so maybe we could reverse that and use the same [unintelligible]-type thinking on them.

I'd say our host misrepresented the exchange.

[Michael Johns]

Can we pause for a moment and reflect on whether it's really crazy to insist that this President, who promised to be the most transparent in American history, stop spending millions of dollars to conceal the basic documents (his Certificate of Live Birth, his Indonesia citizen status, his citizen status upon reentering the U.S., and his college and law school applications) that would establish definitively that he is a natural born citizen and thus Constitutionally eligible to hold the position to which he has been elected?

I would contend that it would be crazy not to insist on such disclosure.

Where things do get crazy is when we attempt to conclude what these documents might reveal. Because he has successfully fought to conceal them, we don't know. As Governor Palin suggested (and as I argue in my article below), we do not know and will not know until we as a movement become more united on the fact that Obama's extensive efforts to conceal these documents, not our timid calls that he be transparent with them, is what's really crazy (and damaging to the nation):

http://michaeljohnsonfreedomandprosperity.blogspot.com/2009/09/release-birth-documents.html

On a separate note, while I disagree with you on this issue, thanks for an otherwise exceptional blog. Your contributions are exceptional, constructive and greatly appreciated.

[Ignatz]

--NYT's Friedman on Climategate: Global Warming Action Necessary, No Matter Risk or Cost
Columnist likens anthropogenic global warming threat to smoking and suggests even if the risk is just '10 percent' it still merits action.--

So I guess every person who ever smoked should go out and get heart and double lung transplants just as a precaution?

[Neo]

The birth certificate issue ranks right up there with the story that nobody can remember Obama's time at Columbia.

[Rick Ballard]

Friedman better check his hole card. Pachauri (IPCC head) is checking his. That's BBC - IMO it looks like the key malefactors have realized that more negative information disclosing the fraud is coming.

Will anyone tip off Barry the Buffoon before he makes a more complete ass of himself?

[clarice]

Pachuri was poo poohing this just the other day. Rick on another thread i posted an Andrew Bolt piece in which from the emails he surmises Wigley was getting really unhappy with the scam and may have blown the whistle.

We are about at the stage where in Rather Gate no one could identify or find who was Lucy Ramirez..

A couple of more weeks I think until the final explosion.

As for O and Hopenhagen--you'd think he'd get a clue from the Gore cancellation.

[narciso]

Btw Rick Moran, has a full conniption fit, not about Climategate, or this shameful policy in Afghanistan, but the remarks linked above by our host

[clarice]

Rick--another thing, assuming that most of these investigations are intended at the outsert to be whitewashed, each cannot be so sure that the other sees it that way and has to fear that without good documentation and reasoning the investigative conclusions will be laughed at and the authors' reputations ruined.

[Rick Ballard]

Clarice,

Wigley was in it up to his nose and from early on. If he is the whistleblower it will be very entertaining to listen to his explanation of why "now" and not "then". The "investigations" are set up (AFAICT) to follow the script of the Albany whitewash of Wang. You're absolutely right about this being a type of Prisoner's Dilemma. We'll see how far "honor among thieves" goes wrt Climate Scientologists - Mann's reaction suggests it will be measurable only with a micrometer.

[Old Lurker]

"Will anyone tip off Barry the Buffoon before he makes a more complete ass of himself?"

Please don't...

[Old Lurker]

C & R, that stuff the other day where TM traced the threat of Tibetan glaciers melting by 2035, which seems to have been a transposition of 2350 pretty simply sums up the entire story, if true. From a simple typo, not questioned by a single person in the retelling, a huge chain of dire predictions was drawn, all suggesting that no amount of spending or disruption is too much to try to stop it, and willing soldiers jumped to the line to make that happen. That story could be as iconic to the skeptics as that stupid polar bear is to the AGW alarmists.

[narciso]

We're way past that point, OL

[sbw]

MY sense of Friedman is that he knows about the danger of smoking because he has been smoking too much already.

[Pofarmer]

Btw Rick Moran, has a full conniption fit, not about Climategate, or this shameful policy in Afghanistan, but the remarks linked above by our host

Number one, is anybody really paying attention to this? Number two, in some polling, didn't a high percentage of respondents say that Obama should release his records? If you play it on the angle of openness and accountability(which Sarah has always pushed) I really don't see how this shows a)she's inept or crazy or whatever or b) that this is a losing issue in the first place. This should be a losing issue for the PRESIDEBT folks. Why bash Sarah?

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

Months before she was picked for VP, I saw her name mentioned on a few blogs. I didn't know anything about her so I checked out a bio piece and it said that she was the popular governor of Alaska between 5 and 6 months pregnant with her fifth child. So someone knew then that she was pregnant.

**************

Ann:

I have a headline for you.

Headline: 'Michelle Obama Wore Clothes to Light the Christmas Tree'

[Rob Crawford]

Headline: 'Michelle Obama Wore Clothes to Light the Christmas Tree'

Oh, thank God. The alternative is too frightening to contemplate.

[bgates]

Will anyone tip off Barry the Buffoon before he makes a more complete ass of himself?

What difference would that make? He wouldn't listen to anybody but the man in the mirror, who tells him he's pretty good at his job and he can play at this level.

[Neo]

Remember how the "deniers" are subsidized by "big oil" .. well Gerald R. Davis (Group Planning, Shell International Petroleum, London, UK) and Douglas D McKay of Shell International Limited, London show up on a few of the CRU e-mails ...

Thank all of you who have attended the SRES Lead Authors' meeting (17-19 September 1997) (0876171248).
Meeting at Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory in Berkeley, California to review the work progress of the four modeling groups (0884731847).
Request for firm number of attendees to IPCC SRES Meeting (0885318160).
Report of minutes of minutes of the SRES informal modelers' meeting (0887665729).
RE-schedule of the next IPCC-SRES Full Authors meeting will be held the week of 27 April 1998 (0888364876).
Info on upcoming IPCC SRES meeting (0888611422).
A solicitation for review of the influence of social and economic policies on future carbon emissions for the SRES (0889047457).
Sending you a copy of Ged Davis' IPCC-SRES Zero Order Draft on storylines and scenarios (0889554019).
Change of venue for Lead Authors meeting (0893188400).
Guidelines on how to present the IS99 storylines and scenarios (0894639050).
Info on upcoming next SRES Lead Authors meeting in Beijing, China (0904080701).
Request for RSVPs to next SRES Meeting (0904762907).
A solicitation of input for the Special Report on Emissions Scenarios (SRES) AR3 (0914013281).

In 0962818260, they mention a meeting to have Shell "... accept an invitation to act as a strategic partner and will contribute to a studentship fund ..."

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

The American Digest Stupidest Senator Ever Poll

That's Gerard's title, not mine. It is a companion poll to this piece. (Put you drink down before linking, the pic ...)

[PD]

openness and accountability(which Sarah has always pushed)

So has Obama.

The difference is that Sarah practices them. Obama, by contrast, uses this rhetoric as a shield to hide behind so that he can fool fools, while he practices obfuscation, fraud, and deceit.

[Frau Waffenlos]

Sara, if CA can dump Bubba Boxer, the oceans will recede and doves will descend from parted clouds. I hope the CA Republicans will not try to find Mr./Mrs./Ms. Perfect.

"Last night, Michelle Obama lit the Christmas tree at the White House wearing a new black coat, black slacks, and a waist belt."

Does FLOTUS have belts we don't know about, such as leg belts, finger belts or head belts? Keep an eye out, Ann. This winter may hold more surprises.

[clarice]

Heh, Frau.

[bad]

... and a waist belt.

Hey!!! That's something new.

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet]

Make sure you don't spell it a waste belt, bad. Our trolls might be offended.

[bad]

LOL, Jim.

[pouncer]

Hey, I think it's fair to keep asking John Kerry to sign a release opening his service records- and to show us his DD-214.

I think it's fair to keep asking John McCain about those MIAs in Vietnam in 1975.

I think it's fair to ask about all kinds of stuff.

Not vital. But fair. Just 'cause a politicians is out of the limelight...

[BR]

The single most important point, to me, in Obama's suppression of providing a U.S. birth certificate, is the amount of money being spent to hide it. He's not simply ignoring the demands; he's actively preventing disclosure.

Perhaps there is no U.S. birth certificate.

Only a COLB, Certificate of Live Birth, which Hawaii issues even for babies born outside of Hawaii. That would really throw his legitimacy as POTUS altogether and immediately.

[BR]

Climategate - Financial Hoax of the Century

Rick, I love your phrase, "illusion of scarcity" !!

Tks for the link to Pachauri's, head of IPCC, turnabout. That's wonderful!

The UK Energy and Climate Change Secy Ed Miliband: "...that this [Climategate emails] somehow casts doubt on Copenhagen or the scientific evidence; frankly, I think that is nonsense and I think we need to resist listening to those siren voices."

Sirens - the new noise pollution. Perhaps he and IPCC can work on outlawing those nuisance car key beeper noises.

[BR]

Climategate's Ship Sunk by a Siren

[Pofarmer]

I didn't realize that Carbon trading was already this big.
http://joannenova.com.au/2009/12/sub-prime-carbon-is-coming-2/

Sub-prime carbon is coming
Behind the scenes, large financial houses are moving in stealthily. In 2008, carbon trading worldwide reached $126 billion and is projected to grow to become a $2-$10 trillion dollar market, or “The largest commodity traded world wide”. The largest. That’s bigger than oil, coal, gas, or iron.

This “free market” is not free, and is not based on a commodity, but on unverifiable, unauditable permits for actions that depend on “motivations”. They are issued to companies to build clean factories they would otherwise not have built (who can tell?). The top two auditors in Europe have both been suspended in the last 12 months. Carbon permits have no value other than by government decree. It’s another fiat currency to be exploited by financial institutions.

Bankers benefit — you pay

The potential for fraud and corruption is limited only by what the voting public will put up with (and what they are aware of). Once this legislation is in place it will be impossible to unwind without major compensation claims. Big bankers win either way.

It sucks wealth from those who produce real goods.

[sylvia]

One thing I was wondering about is what is the total amount of CO2 put out by all insects animals humans and I suppose even fish. And what is that amount compared to the CO2 put out by cars and applicances.

Think about it, every time an animal breathes out, that's CO2 put into the atmosphere. Imagine how much CO2 humans alone put out every year. After all, you only use your car for maybe an hour a day. You breathe all day. It would be an interesting comparison.

[sylvia]

Well one question answered - insects do breathe and expel carbon dioxide. LUN.

Okay, imagine how much CO2 is expelled by the total mass of insects and earth worms and bacteria on this planet. How can anything that humans put out with their ac and cars even compare?

Also, if we could take the CO2 produced from combustion and make it a solid, and bury it in the earth, that would be a neat invention.

[sylvia]

"Scientists at the Mauna Loa observatory in Hawaii say that CO2 levels in the atmosphere now stand at 387 parts per million (ppm), up almost 40% since the industrial revolution and the highest for at least the last 650,000 years. "

Okay, the CO2 has gone up 40% and so far, no real noticeable difference. So we can assume from that we can go up another 40% maybe another 80%, with no problems.

And by the way, I am skeptical the CO2 has gone up 40%. Our cars and ac burn that much more than all the life on the planet? That would be another figure that needs to be checked out.

[pagar]

Pofarmer, have you seen Melinda's post on the Afghan thread that was put up a few minutes ago, it says the Chicago ripoff fraud market is not doing so well. My opinion at this point is that every one of us need to be spreading the word on climategate fraud to everyone we can reach. The more people who hear about it the more people seem to understand. Climategate is the largest pure fraud the world has ever seen.

The LUN I have is not the post Melinda put up, it is an interesting article pointing out just how involved many of the so called scientists are in this fraud.