Brown Is This Season's Black

Michael Cooper of the Times tells us that Democrats are stunned.

Carl Hulse tells us that the health care bill is fading to black.

Adam Nagourney describes "the White House" as "arguably humiliated" (what, now people in Massachusetts don't like its architecture?); presumably he does not want Times readers to spill their morning coffee upon learning of Obama's arguable humiliation.

Mr. Nagourney also sidles up to another abyss here:

Most ominously, independent voters — who embraced Mr. Obama’s presidential campaign and are an increasingly critical constituency — seemed to have fled to Mr. Brown in Massachusetts, as they did to Republicans in races for governor in Virginia and New Jersey last November. It is hard not to view that as a repudiation of the way Mr. Obama and Democratic Congressional leaders have run things.

It's hard not to view it as a repudiation, but I'm sure when the spin is ready the Times will present it.

STILL TO COME:  Obama has not experienced much adversity in his political life but I eagerly await a spate of stories explaining how he will apply the lessons he took from his 2000 defeat by Bobby Rush to the current situation.  I do like this quote from Mr. Rush himself:

“He was blinded by his ambition,” Mr. Rush said. “Obama has never suffered from a lack of believing that he can accomplish whatever it is he decides to try. Obama believes in Obama. And, frankly, that has its good side but it also has its negative side.”

Eerily prescient.

The lesson the Times took when they covered this in 2007 does not seem broadly applicable:

Not that the loss hurt Mr. Obama. Not long after getting “my rear end handed to me,” as he later put it, he ran successfully for the United States Senate — this time with no sitting Democrat to displace, with abundant planning and with a more experienced campaign staff, including David Axelrod, a Daley consultant who is the senior political adviser on Mr. Obama’s campaign for the Democratic presidential nomination.

Pick an easier district?  Maybe Obama could run for UN Secretary General.  Hire Axelrod?  Already done.

Comments

[peter]

And to think that soon we will have to pay to get access to the NYTimes site.

[Jack is Back!]

Best line of the Brown victory:

"First time in 10 years that David Gergen helped a republican win."

[Kilgore Was Here]

I love the smell of napalm in the morning.

[Porchlight]

Let us savor their tears as they have savored ours.

[JorgXMcKie]

To all those adjectives used routinely for Obama, shouldn't we now permanently add clueless?

[MoodyBlu]

All the talking heads hold the position that this was an election about "health care". Idiots!

It's the out of control spending.
It's a failure to drill here, drill now.
It's a failure to build 100 nuclear plants at a minimum.
It's TSA procedures that have patriotic Americans taking their damn shoes off in order to board an aircraft.
It's an education system that has totally collapsed in the last 30-40 years.
Did I mention the out of control spending?

I hope I don't come across as a whiner. I am truly scared for my kids, my country, and their futures.

Hey daddy, I'm a recently retired air traffic controller (28 years). I enjoy reading of your travels around the world. Stay safe.

[Janet]

Wow! A huge Thank You to Rocco, Jane, TC, Dave, and all the JOM contingent up in Massachusetts. Great effort! My family and our whole nation is so grateful. I was at church packing boxes for the troops so I missed the JOM blow-by-blow knock down of Marcia Coaksley!
Anyway, just a huge and loud Thank You to you all. Praise God!

PS - a bit of sanity from Virginia Sen. Jim Webb LUN

[Extraneus]

One down, nineteen to go.

[BumperStickerist]

and, per ace (of spades), Brown's celebratory balloons were released ** on time **.

Fear Our Efficacy, Democrats.

Fear ... Our ... Efficacy.

.

[Jane]

"arguably humiliated"

Arguably? My ass.

I feel like I can relax for the first time in a year.

And imagine this: Massachusetts ROCKS!

[Extraneus]

Hitler finds out about the election.

[fdcol63]

It's morning again in America!

Thank you, people of MA!

[Janet]

Just finished reading the other thread...boy did I miss a JOM party last night! This great turn of events reminds me of a post by Ann awhile back...
"As my wonderful grandmother told me "The World Turns" tune in tomorrow."

Ha! Never give up!

[Pofarmer]

I'm gonna pull this comment of GLASATER's from the last thread.

From the reading I've been doing, Zero is going to do "things" to further trash the economy.

Details?

[verner]

I know what can save Obama's failed presidency! Let's pull Newt out of the moth balls.

Oh, and by the way, have I told y'all lately how much I love you.

[Captain Hate]

I hope Gerald Amirault had a good evening knowing that he was instrumental in defeating the idiot who prolonged his absurd incarceration. I also hope that the renewed knowledge of his situation (I had no idea that he had to wear, much less bear the expense of, a tracking device; I honestly think the Soviets might have treated him more humanely) leads the people in Massachusetts to demand that his record be cleansed.

[Melinda Romanoff]

Fun night last night.

I read somewhere last night that Senator-elect Brown's support was strongest from those who felt defense was the most important issue, followed by terrorism (inc. NO trials in Manhattan).

I'll try and pull the link later.

Still fun though.

[Kilgore Was Here]

And so it begins...

"The Obama administration's choice to lead the Transportation Security Administration is withdrawing his nomination.

In a statement, Erroll Southers says he is withdrawing because his nomination has become a lightning rod for those with a political agenda." - ABC (LUN)

Thank you Scott Brown. I am giving Brown credit for every positive event that occurs from this point forward.

[centralcal]

OH happy day! What fun to surf around the web today and read the headlines.

As someone else commented - one down! But we have more to do.

[centralcal]

Great news, Kilgore!

[NK]

To the voters of the Commonwealth:

Bless you one and all "you magnificent bastards!"

[Neo]

Last night over at MSDNC, Maddow and Kos took this election outcome as a sign that Democrats must now pass HCR even if it means “reconciliation”

Let’s see … Republican running as 41th vote against HCR in “bluest” state wins .. it’s a sign the “blue” team must pass HCR by all means necessary. This level of political tone deafness is unbelievable. Talk about dense. Massachusetts voters weren't mad because there is no health care reform bill or Republican obstructionism.

Massachusetts already has a rough equivalent of ObamaCare with 98% coverage. They were mad because the party in power had lost it's mind and was on a spending spree that will damage our country for decades to come. Congress was writing checks that the taxpayers couldn't and now wouldn't pay. Let's hope Congress learns that every problem doesn't demand a solution from Washington, and just because you can doesn't mean you should.

Perhaps there are Democrats who want to complete their “lemmings” death march as they kamikaze their way into the history books. Let's hope it's less than 50% of the Congress.

[Steve]

We have to slash government spending. We need candidates to run honestly on that agenda. Brown did not do that. Tax cuts are not going to balance the budget. For the first few years at least, they will increase the deficit. The country cannot afford the deficit spending.

[Kilgore Was Here]

Who's this "we" you speak of Steve-o?

[Steve]

"...OH happy day! What fun to surf around the web today and read the headlines. ..."

Brown did not run on the agenda that is needed to fix the country. We have to live within our means. He wanted to get elected more than he wanted to tell people what has to be done.

[rse]

I watched the Today show this morning for the 1st time in a few years to see the reaction.

According to David Gregory, the voters were saying that they want government to work better for them.

Hello??

By the way is anyone else reading Jonah Goldberg's book Liberal Fascism?

[Steve]

"...Last night over at MSDNC, Maddow and Kos took this election outcome as a sign that Democrats must now pass HCR even if it means “reconciliation” ..."

so, they are idiots. Us running on an agenda of tax cuts and fighting the tribes in Afg and Pak is not much better. Where is our plan on HCR? Being allowed to buy HI across state lines is not a solution.

[Captain Hate]

Who sent you Steve?

[Jack is Back!]

I couldn't believe Frank Luntz's focus group last night regarding the election. Most voted for Obama and most thought he hadn't done enough, had not had enough time to do enough. And what was enough? Being more liberal, more government, more taxes, more civil rights for terrorists. So, since he had not did enough of that they voted for Brown? Doesn't make sense to me. Brown is against more tax, more HCR, more civil rights for terrorists. Can someone do a Harry Reid for me and reconcile this?

[Steve]

"...Who's this "we" you speak of Steve-o? ..."

the "we" who want the country to prosper. Balance the budget. Stop extending unemployment benefits so that people will take the jobs that are out there at market rates of pay.

People have to be told there is no free lunch. Brown/Romney did not do that.

[fdcol63]

Left-wing nuts like Obama, Pelosi, Reid, Frank, Maddow, Kos, Matthews, Olbermann et al aren't tone deaf. They know the jig is up.

But they also know this is the only chance they'll EVER have to push through their agenda.

They also know that this window of opportunity will close in November.

They are going for broke ... damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead.

Because they think health care will be like Social Security. They think SS is popular because everyone wants to keep it solvent.

But people don't LIKE Social Security. They are DEPENDENT on it, because the Federal gov't has taken their money from them over the years and put it into SS instead of letting people invest that money in other retirement vehicles of their own choosing. People has no other option.

Americans simply don't want the same thing to happen with their health care.

[fdcol63]

People HAD no other option .... sorry for the misspelling.

[Jane]

Relax Steve, we will get there. Today is a day of celebration, a national holiday, the day when the seas rose and the polar bears propagated.

Tomorrow is soon enough.

[Steve]

"...But people don't LIKE Social Security. They are DEPENDENT on it, because the Federal gov't has taken their money from them over the years and put it into SS instead of letting people invest that money in other retirement vehicles of their own choosing. People has no other option. ..."

Good point. And considering the federal government is on a course towards bankruptcy, social security is not a good place to have your retirement money nowadays. Your retirement is much more secure if you are allowed to opt out of SS.

[Steve]

"...Who sent you Steve? ..."

I read Tom's blog just about every day. His comment section is a bit cumbersome to use however. I post at huffington post recently under the name freemarket25. It is fun debating the people over there.

[narciso]

I think Steve was from that focus group,
seriously, this was like a reverse Jeffords, or a little payback for the scam that netted Begich and Franken, their seats. Southers is the first casualty, the Jocelyn Elders of the administrative class.

One kind of has to look at this, as a no confidence vote in the policies of the likes of a Brennan, and Napolitano,

[fdcol63]

"It is fun debating the people over there."

So ... have any hair left? LOL

[bgates]

Being allowed to buy HI across state lines is not a solution.

Those 12 words do not embody a solution to the problem of how to cheaply provide long disease- and disability-free life to the 300 million people in this country, yet I think we should do it.

Severing the link between insurance and employment by providing (oh noes tax cut) the same deduction to individuals currently provided to business would be another good thing.

Capping malpractice awards would reduce defensive medicine, and have the side benefit of strangling the next John Edwards in his crib.

Some crazy folks have even suggested that we could reduced the unit cost of a high-demand service like doctor visits by increasing the supply of doctors.

Have you really never heard those ideas, Steve?

[Fresh Air]

The people are also annoyed that Zero claimed medical costs were bankrupting the country. So naturally, the solution is...more medical costs!!!

The dipshitedness of it all is just breathtaking. Maybe even Cleo, er...Steve can understand that.

[Steve]

"...Relax Steve, we will get there. Today is a day of celebration, a national holiday, the day when the seas rose and the polar bears propagated. ..."

that would be really nice. But I don't think we are anywhere close to fixing things in the country. I mean, the problems we face with the extreme deficit spending, the guaranteeing of home mortgages, competing against China, still a lot of immigration into the country from the 3rd world, .... my gosh, until we can win elections where we tell people there have to be radical cutbacks, we have not yet turned the corner.

[Fresh Air]

bgates--

I would take those three things and even exchange them for a modest increase in coverage of the uninsured through a subsidized national pool for catastrophic coverage. It isn't that hard if all you are trying to do is reform the system. It's when you are trying to smash healthcare into socialist pieces and feed them to favored constituencies that things get complicated.

[qrstuv]

It's really wrong to think of health care as a "system."

*Systems* are designed.

Health care is not a system.

Health care is part of the marketplace -- and it is badly crippled by people trying to design it.

[Jack is Back!]

daddy,

Your favorite nitwit pol, Ed Rendell, was on FNC this morning and beside his schmuking it up about the C-17 flight with the orphans, opined that Obama/Pelosi/Reid need to go full-throttle on HCR by making the Republicans filibuster it and then explain how they prevented the average American citizen from fully enjoying the benefits of socialized medicine.

I kid you not.

Oh, and welcome back to a new America!

[Steve]

"...Have you really never heard those ideas, Steve? ..."

sure I have. And they are good ideas. The problem is that just about everyone who makes less that $15 per hour can't afford market priced health care. That is a lot of people. I think there should be government run clinics throughout the country. As common as post offices. A person gets good, rationed care at the goverment facility. They pay on a sliding scale, what they can afford to pay.

[Sue]

Ed Rendell told F&F this morning that Obama and democrats need to do a better job of explaining their health care reform. That was the problem with it. We are too stupid to understand it and they are not educating us. I want to throw something at the tv when these assclowns take a decisive loss and make it everything but what it is. We understand it. We. Don't. Want. It.

[Janet]

"BOOM BOOM BOOM Mr. Brown is a wonder!
BOOM BOOM BOOM Mr. Brown makes thunder!
He makes lightning SPLATT SPLATT SPLATT!
And it’s very, very hard to make a noise like that."

Ha! From Gateway Pundit

[Jack is Back!]

One more thing.

NYSE opens in 4 minutes. If you really want to see what the Brown victory means, watch the opening bell on Fox Business Channel. This is should be good unless the traders are nervous that Obama is determined to "double-down".

Me, I have decided to take him up on that challenge and I am making a big move on insurance, pharma and medical tech.

[Fresh Air]

Stolen from Reason mag's comments:

Only Democrats, however, are stupid enough to run on a platform promising free lunches forever. They never seem to learn how short-lived their spectacular success must necessarily be, nor how reverberating is the awful crunch that follows.

This is why they remain the party of the young, the senile, and those new to democracy.

So is Steve (a) young (b) senile or (c) an immigrant from Canada?

[Steve]

"..."It is fun debating the people over there."
So ... have any hair left? LOL ... "

I have actually learned how to better debate a liberal. They don't like it when you say "democrat party" instead of "democratic". When debating immigration policy, highlight that you are concerned about the effect the increase in population will have on the environment. They can't counter that. They have no answer ( other than " you did not complain when Bush did it" ) to the charge that deficit spending is a bad thing. Stuff like that.

[clarice]

Mel,Internals showed the vote change was defense and the handling of terrorists:
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2010/01/brown_strategist_national_secu.html>Bown internals

[Pofarmer]

I would take those three things and even exchange them for a modest increase in coverage of the uninsured through a subsidized national pool for catastrophic coverage

If you do the things that bgates suggested, it would cheapen things up enough that you anyone with the slightest whiff of motivation could afford catastrophic coverage. Unfortunately, those suggestions don't give the govt a piece of the action, and may even make the problem areas better. Typically, govt isn't into fixing problems, they are into troweling over them with govt run "solutions."

[Sue]

Steve sounds like a Ron Paulian. Welcome Steve. You're going to find some of your ideas we will agree with, others not so much. Fight the good fight and see if you get any converts.

[Captain Hate]

I think there should be government run clinics throughout the country. As common as post offices.

LOLWUT? They'll be run about as well as post offices. Go troll somewhere else "Steve"; anybody that wrote what I italicized isn't about free markets.

[narciso]

I'm convinced that the original HMO bill, really was where we went wrong. up on until 1980, when I came to Florida, I hadn't heard
of such a thing, who didn't have a family doctor.

[Melinda Romanoff]

JiB-

Stocks are going to open lower due to the bid in the dollar.

Might change over the day, but it will be sector specific, indexes won't tell you much.

Just my 2.

[anduril]

More from Evan Bayh, who really seems to get it:

“Whenever you have just the furthest left elements of the Dem party attempting to impose their will on the rest of the country -- that’s not going to work too well.”

I'll bet he's not the only Dem who recognizes the edge of a cliff when he sees one.

And Michael Goodwin spells it out a bit further:

The victory by little-known Republican Scott Brown marks the third time where a state Obama won in 2008 has turned thumbs down on him in the last three months. Starting with Virginia and New Jersey, each GOP victory has sharpened the sense that he wildly overreached in forcing the country to take a sharp left turn.

While it is true he inherited an economic mess and two wars, the electorate is concluding his policies have made things worse. That fully half the country views his first year as a failure marks a record decline in presidential score keeping.

Obama has only himself to blame. While the far-left barons of Congress played their predictable part, the president has played their eager accomplice.

Historians will judge whether he led or followed them. For now, it's sufficient to say they are in the soup together.

Yet still they show only defiance. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi vowed the health-care package would become law "one way or the other." With only about 35 percent of the public supporting it, she has picked a fight with an angry public. Does she not believe in democracy?

Most disheartening, the White House has boarded her ship of fools. Politico.com reports Obama will respond to the defeat with a "combative turn."

Apparently his hostility and contempt for dissent was his Mr. Nice Guy routine. The article quotes an aide saying the president has no doubts about his course and growing opposition "reinforces the conviction to fight hard."

This madness was echoed by White House flack Robert Gibbs, who chalked up the anger over the health bills to public ignorance of the benefits.

Bayh and the Bluedogs can read the papers and blogs just like anyone else, and they can read the message. Look for significant pushback from "moderate" Dems.

[Steve]

a devastating attack on Obama from Mort Zuckerman. ( saw the link on Instapundit )

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-01-19/hes-done-everything-wrong/?cid=bs:archive3

"...In the campaign, he said he would change politics as usual. He did change them. It’s now worse than it was. I’ve now seen the kind of buying off of politicians that I’ve never seen before. It’s politically corrupt and it’s starting at the top. It’s revolting. ..."

[Pofarmer]

I think there should be government run clinics throughout the country. As common as post offices. A person gets good, rationed care at the goverment facility. They pay on a sliding scale, what they can afford to pay.

Steve, don't be a fuckin' idiot. The Post Office is losing BILLIONS. If you want to open a bunch of govt run clinics, where will you get the Dr's?(Here's a hint, there aren't any." How about this, Graduate more Dr's, let THEM open the clinics and COMPETE with one another. That's the ONLY way to bring costs for those services down. Can you imagine what movie rentals would cost if you had a chain of govt run movie stores? Adding a layer of Federal Bureaucracy isn't going to make ANY part of what you propose cheaper, especially when there is an actual shortage of providers, proven by the marketplace.

[Jack is Back!]

Mel,

You're right. I mis-read the futures report on Bloomberg. Still I am in a buying mode.

[Steve]

"...I think there should be government run clinics throughout the country. As common as post offices.

LOLWUT? They'll be run about as well as post offices. Go troll somewhere else "Steve"; anybody that wrote what I italicized isn't about free markets. ..."

So let the inefficiency of the government run clinics be the democrat's problem. If we get the non paying out of the free market health care system, then costs for paying people could come down. You can make a good case that medicare and medicaid can be eliminated if there are govenment run clinics the poor can go to.

[Sue]

Isn't a Great Country When the Leader of the Free World . . .
. . . descends on your state to ridicule you and crush you (politically), and you get the last laugh? [Rich Lowry]

[Jim Ryan]

If you're making $12/hour you can afford catastrophic insurance. It's less than a car payment, by far. Add up your phone and TV bill. It's about that. My wife and kids have a policy. It's $107/mo.

[anduril]

US Post Office = The reason UPS and FedEx are thriving. Duh!

[Melinda Romanoff]

JiB-

"Buy the rumor, sell the fact." Today, we have a fact to trade (Brown).

The dollar's got the steering wheel for now.

clarice, thanks, that's exactly where I saw it.

[PaulV]

Did the Skip Gates episode give Brown the police union endorsement even though Mr. Croakley was a member

[Steve]

I see the Brown win as a big victory for Romney. I read that Romney's organization helped Brown a lot. I would not be surprised to learn that they actually recruited and trained Brown. I am still not sold on Romney because he avoids street fights, but I like that he is in the game for the long term.

[Pofarmer]

Politico.com reports Obama will respond to the defeat with a "combative turn."

Apparently his hostility and contempt for dissent was his Mr. Nice Guy routine. The article quotes an aide saying the president has no doubts about his course and growing opposition "reinforces the conviction to fight hard."

This madness was echoed by White House flack Robert Gibbs, who chalked up the anger over the health bills to public ignorance of the benefits.

Stock up on popcorn. If Obama loses the moderates in the Dim party, then he might as well just plan lot's of trips on AF1, 'cause anything he wanted to get done is dead, dead, dead. The next problem, is getting rid of the brain dead dregs in Congress who supported it.

[narciso]

Goodwin, has gotten better since he switched from the Daily News to the Post, but he really
has to in all honesty, repudiate why he would have ever voted for Obama, it was as clear as the night is day, what he was about, if one was paying attention

[anduril]

But even Zuckerman doesn't quite get it: "He was determined somehow or other to adopt a whole new agenda."

"somehow or other" = the guy is a flaming Marxist ideologue true believer! Doing everything wrong was NOT the result of bad advice or poor political judgment--it was the result of fanatical adherence to far left ideology.

[Steve]

"... If you want to open a bunch of govt run clinics, where will you get the Dr's?(Here's a hint, there aren't any." How about this, Graduate more Dr's, ..."

Something I like about the feds running the clinics is they can limit malpractice awards when the young Drs who work at the clinics make mistakes.

[anduril]

I think he basically lost the moderates some time ago. What he's done over his first year--and this MA election is the final straw--is to provide moderates with the empirical evidence they need to develop backbones. Notice how the PUBLIC pushback started yesterday even before the returns were in. The quickness of that reaction is an indication that the sentiments had been building for some time.

[Cecil Turner]

They have no answer ( other than " you did not complain when Bush did it" ) to the charge that deficit spending is a bad thing.

Right. And spending another couple $trillion on health care "system" is no exception.

So let the inefficiency of the government run clinics be the democrat's problem.

Uh, did you miss the part about a couple $trillion? How can that be anything but "everybody's problem"?

[Steve]

"... If you're making $12/hour you can afford catastrophic insurance. It's less than a car payment, by far. Add up your phone and TV bill. It's about that. My wife and kids have a policy. It's $107/mo. ..."

When you pay cash for HC, at least up here in the NE, you get clobbered. I would make it so when the poor pay cash, they pay the same amount that medicare pays.

[narciso]

Right unaccountable bureaucrats dispensing medicine, 'what do we call that boys and girl'
death panels.

[Porchlight]

This is why they remain the party of the young, the senile, and those new to democracy.

I would add "or hostile to" democracy to that description.

[Pofarmer]

I am still not sold on Romney because he avoids street fights, but I like that he is in the game for the long term.

Romney needs to be in just the position that he's in right now. A Romney Presidency should scare the hell out of Conservatives.

[Pofarmer]

Something I like about the feds running the clinics is they can limit malpractice awards when the young Drs who work at the clinics make mistakes.

Why would a young Dr. work in some govt run clinic?

[Cecil Turner]

. . . they pay the same amount that medicare pays.

Pop quiz from econ 101 . . . when the government pays for services:

1. the price of those services increases; or
2. the price of those services decreases?

So our solution for excessive health care costs is to throw more federal dollars at services? Sure, that oughta work . . . right?

[Porchlight]

Why would a young Dr. work in some govt run clinic?

Exactly. Those clinics would draw doctors like public schools draw highly intelligent, talented people to teach.

Nobody is going to put that kind of time and effort into medical school so they can make $50K/year at a government clinic.

[Pofarmer]

When you pay cash for HC, at least up here in the NE, you get clobbered. I would make it so when the poor pay cash, they pay the same amount that medicare pays.

Typically, when you pay cash here, they shave at least 20% off the top.

[Jack is Back!]

Po,

Because the gov't run clinic will be the only place you can get any kind of medical care.

Steve doesn't get it. People want LESS government not MORE government.

[Steve]

"... So let the inefficiency of the government run clinics be the democrat's problem.

Uh, did you miss the part about a couple $trillion? How can that be anything but "everybody's problem"? ..."

um, having the goverment run your local health clinic has to be cheaper than giving every minimum wage worker $400 a month to pay for HI.

Also, local government clinics also solves the problem of pre existing condition coverage. You buy HI to cover your future illnesses, go to the goverment facility for your preexisting condition.

[anduril]

Good article by Steven Malanga, Health Reform and the Conspiracy Against Taxpayers, emphasizing the role of public sector unions in the Obama administration and in particular the HC push. Just two excerpts from a much longer article:

But the Obama administration has paid particular attention the politics of the public sector workforce. When California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger tried laying off government workers in the midst of the state's budget crisis, Obama officials at the behest of the Service Employees International Union informed the state that it would forfeit hundreds of millions of stimulus dollars if it reduced its workforce. Members of the Schwarzenegger administration were flabbergasted as officials from SEIU were allowed to participate in the conference call in which the Obama folks read the public-sector riot act to California.

...

Still, we can't blame all of this on the Obama administration. Indeed, the Bush years were quite good for public sector workers too. In fact, the last 50 years, ever since governments began allowing widespread organizing by public workers, have been one upward arc for government workers, so that today they surpass their private counterparts in pay, benefits and working conditions.

Do you understand what's being said here? Big Labor with a seat at the table with elected officials?

This is why the GOP needs a new national platform for the coming elections. Public sector unions--which are no more than a political scheme to divert taxpayer money to far left political causes--urgently need to be addressed. Poll after poll shows this is a winning issue if the GOP will pursue it. It is issues like this that the GOP needs to bring to the national debate.

[Cecil Turner]

um, having the goverment run your local health clinic has to be cheaper than giving every minimum wage worker $400 a month to pay for HI.

Great. How 'bout doing neither? That's a lot cheaper, isn't it?

[Pofarmer]

Also, local government clinics also solves the problem of pre existing condition coverage. You buy HI to cover your future illnesses, go to the goverment facility for your preexisting condition.

So now we're up from clinics to facilities? What width and breadth of conditions are these "facilities" going to attend to?

Hell, nothing has happened and we already got mission creep. Soon it'll be the full Monte.

um, having the goverment run your local health clinic has to be cheaper than giving every minimum wage worker $400 a month to pay for HI.

That's why we're not gonna do that either.

[Steve]

Pop quiz from econ 101 . . . when the government pays for services:

the price of those services increases; or
the price of those services decreases?

People paying cash for medical service at medicare reimbursement rates would not increase government payments. I am aware that more Drs. will not accept medicare if all the cash payers could pay that low rate, but medicare reimbursement policy, that is another debate.

[Extraneus]

Doing everything wrong was NOT the result of bad advice or poor political judgment--it was the result of fanatical adherence to far left ideology.

Amazing how many people don't get that.

[narciso]

Right, Po, the only discordant note, is that Romney is being given the credit, whereas it is plain to see that Rocco, Jane, Dave, and thousands, of others, known and unknown were
the driving force, "Tea Party Nation" and who is the representative of these forces?

[Pofarmer]

This is why the GOP needs a new national platform for the coming elections. Public sector unions--which are no more than a political scheme to divert taxpayer money to far left political causes--urgently need to be addressed. Poll after poll shows this is a winning issue if the GOP will pursue it. It is issues like this that the GOP needs to bring to the national debate.

Gonna take somebody with more balls than Mitt Romney.

Sarah Palin perhaps?

[Steve]

"... Steve doesn't get it. People want LESS government not MORE government. ..."

are you serious? Democrats win so many elections precisely because people want more handouts. They just don't want to pay for it!

[Pofarmer]

People paying cash for medical service at medicare reimbursement rates would not increase government payments. I am aware that more Drs. will not accept medicare if all the cash payers could pay that low rate, but medicare reimbursement policy, that is another debate.

You've descended into gibberish.

[Cecil Turner]

Hell, nothing has happened and we already got mission creep. Soon it'll be the full Monte.

It'd have to be, anyway. Why would anyone pay for something the government is giving away for free? (Well, maybe the "Cadillac" plans would survive by giving better service, but most folks would eventually head on down to the government clinic, no?)

[Melinda Romanoff]

Obama's on right now. Her's the double down, and they're going to use the IRS to enforce it.

Yippee!

[Pofarmer]

Democrats win so many elections precisely because people want more handouts. They just don't want to pay for it!

So the Republicans win by giving the people the handouts they supposedly want? Congratulations, you are Olympia Snowe. Were you paying attention yesterday? Ever heard of them there tea party thingies?

[Cecil Turner]

People paying cash for medical service at medicare reimbursement rates would not increase government payments.

Typical liberal who can't see past the first time their much vaunted "program" makes a purchase. Try to look just a bit farther down the road. Simple question: tie payments to the government rate and they go up or down? (Hint: "down" is wrong.)

[Steve]

"... um, having the goverment run your local health clinic has to be cheaper than giving every minimum wage worker $400 a month to pay for HI.

That's why we're not gonna do that either.

..."

you living in the past, man! ( joking ) Every year we get a few more million immigrants into the country. None of the people who have arrived in the country in the last 30 years was standing behind Brown last night when he gave his victory speech. We free market, self reliant, patriotic, traditional americans are far outnumbered. There are a lot of us, but there are a ton of them. They want free health insurance. I say it is cheaper to give them free health care.

[Pofarmer]

Her's the double down, and they're going to use the IRS to enforce it.

Ah, inspire a tax revolt, as well. They really ARE that stupid.

[Captain Hate]

Right, Po, the only discordant note, is that Romney is being given the credit, whereas it is plain to see that Rocco, Jane, Dave, and thousands, of others, known and unknown were the driving force, "Tea Party Nation" and who is the representative of these forces?

This was an argument at AoS last week: In order to channel the passions of a movement you need an organization. Mitt's people had the knowhow to put these passions to good use. I think that's why they're being singled out.

[anduril]

John Carney at Clusterstock re John Judis' lefty take at TNR:

Basically, it boils down to this: two groups of voters think he's in the pocket of wealthy special interests. The elderly and the white working class saw his health care plan as taking away their benefits while subsidizing insurance companies, hospitals and big pharma. It was, in short, the mirror image of the bailouts of the financial sector and the auto companies.

From the New Republic:

Obama’s health care plan has provoked a combination of rightwing and leftwing populism. The middle class and senior citizens see it as a program that taxes and takes benefits away from them in order to help those without insurance--the out groups--and to enrich the insurance companies themselves. They didn’t invent this perception out of thin air: It derived in part from the plan to tax “Cadillac” health care plans (which are sometimes held by unionized middle class workers), penalize workers who don’t buy insurance, and cut future Medicare spending, while providing new subscribers and profits for the insurance companies. Undoubtedly, the prior perception of Obama’s financial policies reinforced these suspicions about his health care plan, which is now as unpopular as the bank bailout.

This is a serious problem for the Democrats in November. Judis again:

The senior citizen vote overlaps to some extent with the white working class vote, but it has a special importance because these voters come out disproportionately in midterm elections. If the Democrats continue to lose the senior vote, as Coakley appears to have done in Massachusetts yesterday, they will get clobbered in November 2010. We’re not talking two or three senate seats, but as many as eight, and not 20 or 25 House seats, but maybe between 30 and 40. To avoid a calamity on that level, Democrats will have to answer a difficult question: Why have these two groups distanced themselves in the last year, and particularly in the last few months, from Obama and the party?

[Steve]

"... Why would anyone pay for something the government is giving away for free? (Well, maybe the "Cadillac" plans would survive by giving better service, but most folks would eventually head on down to the government clinic, no?) ..."

a government run clinic/hospital does not have to be free. In NJ at least, when you apply for charity care you have to disclose your income and assets. People should pay for their care at the government facility what they can afford to pay.