Now It Is The IPCC That Is Melting Down

Last December we wondered about a Pajamas Media story telling us that the widely repeated IPCC claim that Himalayan glaciers might disappear by 2035 was based on a typo.  After trying to follow the trail of footnotes and citations we came away suspecting that a story in the New Scientist based on an interview with a Dr. Hasnain was the cause of the confusion.

And now the Times Online confirms that hypothesis:

A WARNING that climate change will melt most of the Himalayan glaciers by 2035 is likely to be retracted after a series of scientific blunders by the United Nations body that issued it.

Two years ago the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) issued a benchmark report that was claimed to incorporate the latest and most detailed research into the impact of global warming. A central claim was the world's glaciers were melting so fast that those in the Himalayas could vanish by 2035.

In the past few days the scientists behind the warning have admitted that it was based on a news story in the New Scientist, a popular science journal, published eight years before the IPCC's 2007 report.

It has also emerged that the New Scientist report was itself based on a short telephone interview with Syed Hasnain, a little-known Indian scientist then based at Jawaharlal Nehru University in Delhi.

Like scientists and the rest of us, they believed what they wanted to believe.

H/t to Glenn and Walter Russell Mead.

Comments

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Oh, it gets better. The New scientist is demanding an explanation from the IPCC for the quote that was, well, originally sourced to New Scientist.

[JorgXMcKie]

Cool. This means I probably win my bet with my Warmenist colleague over whether or not the Arctic ice will have disappeared by 2013.

[daddy]

Well the BBC is still sugarcoating AGW, but even they can't entirely cover it up. In a story today trying to deflect the criticism that the UK's MET (Meteorology Office) has been receiving for consistently lousy and inaccurate weather forecasts, we get this fun sentence:

"The Met Office has now admitted to BBC News that its annual global mean forecast predicted temperatures higher than actual temperatures for nine years out of the last 10."

But anybody could of done it cautions the BBC reporter. After all, "This "warming bias" is very small."

[chip]

The IPCC represents the consensus so the consensus believes there is a 90% probability that the Himalayan glaciers will disappear by 2035.

Except the 'consensus' turns out to be a decade-old quote from an obscure Indian scientist.

And to think we were a whisker away from handing over our economy to UN and EU kleptocrats based on this crap.

[clarice]

Let's start an Intrade type thing for weather predictions..Just saying.

[Janet]

I hear the Clintons have always had a special love of the Himalayas. Aides report that Bill always carries a chunk of ice in his pocket.

[Extraneus]

Cool. Step right up, folks. Get yer temperature calls and ice-mass puts at the St. Jane's Climate Options Exchange.

[anduril]

Steve Sailer notes that miracles really do occur sometimes: Tom Friedman writes a good column! You don't have to agree with everything to acknowledge the validity of his overall thrust.

[Soylent Red]

Aides report that Bill always carries a chunk of ice in his pocket.

Maybe he's just happy to see them.

[Fred Beloit]

Just read it, andu. There are two overall thrusts. Both of them are, well, crazy as can be. One, "Today, Al Qaeda threatens: ‘We will bankrupt you.’ ” And they will."

No they won't. Obama and his team of spendthrift lackeys in the Congress are the ones bankrupting us, as anybody with a brain can plainly see.
Two, his answer to world tensions is: tah ta ta taaaah...isolationism. We've been there done that. It doesn't work.

Steve the Sailor is all wet on this one.

[Melinda Romanoff]

Ex-

Just ask me for a quote.

And bring your checkbook.

[clarice]

I'm g;ad you guys haven't lst your entrepreneurial spirit .With PUK gone, I thought only Rick and I would be able to carry on.

[Extraneus]

I knew we could count on you, Melinda. Can you help me sell some ice futures and some hurricane and sea-level calls?

[Melinda Romanoff]

I don't ordinarily make a market in weather futures (which do trade at the CME, LUN ) but in your case, I'll make an exception.

Or, do you just want to write the check out now?

[Jack is Back!]

daddy,

Did you get the game in Paris?

[narciso]

Letting the Paks decide, we've seen this movie before, they chose the Taliban, which took power within 7 years, of our washing our hands of this. Chinese 'benevolence and a little of that Saudi and Pak money seeded the ETIM, which we encountered in Afghanistan

[Fresh Air]

Clarice--

To channel PUK you must write something pithy,lots of run-on sentences and British-sounding words like "whilst." Insult Gordon Brown and taunt Cleo. Also,be careful never to insert spaces after commas!

Interesting you should note Rick and PUK, as those are probably the only two writers at JOM who I could consistently identify without reading their signature line. Though whenever a grizzly bear or erupting volcano was mentioned, one could be pretty sure it was Daddy.

[clarice]

I would never even attempt to channel him. Even on the darkest days he could make me laugh outloud with his sharp wit.

[Danube of Thought]

He was a marvel, and I'm amazed at how much I miss him. I wonder if his loved ones know how much he was cherished by a community of people who never met him.

[Danube of Thought]

Intrade has it 53.5 Brown, 46.5 Coakley.

[Danube of Thought]

NRO link to a WaPo symposium on "what if Coakley loses?" It's a bummer to see what wet blankets the GOP people are.

[Abad man]

Friedman and Sailor both ignor the fact that the biggest reason China leaves Taiwan alone is that like Europe the US stands ready to defend Taiwan. Friesman's thrust ignores both history and China's stated intent toward Taiwan. He displays a willfull ignorance rather like the IPCC which I doubt could qualify for a booth at a Junior High science fair, given the rigor of its scientific method.

[narciso]

Schnur admits he was the chief ofcommunication
for McCain, he previously was a big honcho, for Pete Wilson, genius distilled people

[clarice]

Wet blankets? Schnur is a total dope.

[hit and run]

DoT:
I wonder if his loved ones know how much he was cherished by a community of people who never met him.

Yes -- that's why we had Elliott represent us at the funeral.

By they way,Ann had been in email contact with one of his friends from the UK. Turns out he comes to NC every year to visit friends here. She put the two of us in touch,and we are planning on getting together this summer for drinks. I can't tell you how much I am looking forward to it.

[matt]

The fact is that slowly, China is Finlandizing Taiwan. The Taiwanese are so divided that they have basically given up on their own independence without a shot fired.

We approved some very significant arms deals several years ago, ships, planes, subs, etc. and the Taiwanese won't even sign the contracts.

The Chinese government has also been enmeshing Taiwan financially on the mainland. Taiwan is now the major investor in China. One fell swoop and all that.

China does not follow our rules and will do whatever is necessary to become the hegemon of the East. They own us now as well, but at the same time, we own them as in the old "when you owe the bank" joke. The question is, what next?

Unfortunately, the dolts in DC are once again clueless. The same with the dolts in Tokyo, Seoul, etc. At one point several years ago there a realization of the game being played, but since then it would seem leadership in the West has been diverted to the bumfhole of Af/Pak or taken stupid pills or both. It's a great big world out there are there is much more going on beyond our noses.

[hit and run]

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/barnes-massachusetts-senatorial-race-and-obamacare>According to Fred Barnes:

Appointed Senator Paul Kirk will lose his vote in the Senate after Tuesday’s election in Massachusetts of a new senator and cannot be the 60th vote for Democratic health care legislation, according to Republican attorneys.

Kirk has vowed to vote for the Democratic bill even if Republican Scott Brown is elected but not yet certified by state officials and officially seated in the Senate. Kirk’s vote is crucial because without the 60 votes necessary to stop a Republican filibuster, the bill will be defeated.

This would be a devastating loss for President Obama and congressional Democrats. The bill, dubbed ObamaCare, is the centerpiece of the president’s agenda. Brown has campaigned on becoming the 41st vote against ObamaCare.

But in the days after the election, it is Kirk’s status that matters, not Brown’s. Massachusetts law says that an appointed senator remains in office “until election and qualification of the person duly elected to fill the vacancy.” The vacancy occurred when Senator Edward Kennedy died in August. Kirk was picked as interim senator by Governor Deval Patrick.

Muwahahaahahaahaaha!!!!

[Pofarmer]

Turns out, the Japanese have been turning skeptical, too.

Akasofu countered with the statement, "CO2 emissions have been increasing, but the rise in air temperature stopped around 2001. Climate change is due in large part to naturally occurring oscillations". Akasofu says the earth's warming trend began prior to the industrial age, and believes much of the warming seen may simply be a natural recovery from the so-called Little Ice Age, that ended in the 17th century.

Professor Itoh attacked the temperature record itself, saying "Data taken by the U.S. is inadequate. We only have satellite data of global temperatures from 1979 onwards". Itoh, who has previously called global warming "the worst scientific scandal in history", is also an expert reviewer for the IPCC.

Dr. Kasano believes that cosmic rays, which are modulated by cycles in the strength of the sun's magnetic fields, may potentially have large-scale impacts on the earth's climate.

The report includes the data in which the researchers base their arguments, and can be publicly viewed (in Japanese) on the Internet.

[Porchlight]

Oh how I hope Fred Barnes is right. I don't see how Kirk can legally vote after Tuesday, but who would be in charge of deciding such things under Massachusetts law? Martha Coakley, AG?

[Quakerescue]

Groupthink was invented by the CIA. What they hear in their heads I don't know, but if it's in their heads they already lost. Geospacial Intelligence agency was invented for climate change as a national security issue, so some Indian guy missed out on all the spying in the arctic. It's all national security now and food security didn't get a special spy agency and it's not fair.

I think the things are going to do car wrecks instead of plane crashes cause the earthquake was a big hit, but they just won't stop assuming bodies and making people do shit like jumping from buildings, so we're hoping for something like a plague(natural just like what they did to you).

Why isn't anyone saying sustainable and five year budgets with Haiti? O's mad, the Governor General is mad, OII is mad........so we have to find something better than this operation, no real cash there. Maybe we should just do some updating and downloading and the bad man will stop.

[Danube of Thought]

I'm not really persuaded by Barnes's argument. Anyhow, I'm quite sure it's a question of Massachusetts law, and if a court agrees to resolve any dispute, it will be a Massachusetts court. Good luck.

[hit and run]

Porchlight:
I don't see how Kirk can legally vote after Tuesday, but who would be in charge of deciding such things under Massachusetts law? Martha Coakley, AG?

How quickly can the legislature write a new law? I mean,they change the law at a whim in replacing Senators depending on which party the current governor belongs to -- what stops them from changing the law to let Kirk continue to vote?

[matt]

by the way, the Times reports that the BBC is considering getting their weather reports from sources other than the Met Office.

How very ironic.....

[Porchlight]

All righty then, tell Scott Brown and his supporters not to bother then. Hell, why doesn't Massachusetts legislature just write a law that no Republican can ever represent them in the Senate. Piece of cake.

[Pops]

Porchlight,

that's probably not far from what the Democrats would do.

Obama doesn't mind writing into law that you pay a 40% penalty tax for your healthcare insurance unless you are a member of an Obama approved union.

Why wouldn't the Democrats just write, you pay 40% more in taxes unless you are a member of the Democrat Party!

What's the difference?

[sbw]

Massachusetts can argue it's case, but the Senate decides who to seat and the Supreme Court lurks in the background, unwilling, but able to review.

[mockmook]

“until election and qualification of the person duly elected to fill the vacancy.”

The word "qualification" seems like a weasel word that can be interpreted any way a lawyer wants it to be.

I suspect the judicial and electoral Dems in MA would interpret it to mean "certification".

[Semanticleo]

I think I can repeat my comment from the last Groupthink discussion as it certainly applies to this discussion.

"

Filters work overtime in certain brain structures compatible with careers in engineering, bean-counting and Banking.
That group consistently displays a conservative predisposition, with nerve pathways carved in stone. The narrow band-width of reality explains a lot, but we don't need science to confirm it, do we?

In the Land of Myopia, the blind man is King."

Groups don't need large numbers to fall prey to delusional belief and wishful thinking. Keep your ostrich-like perspective. It's your strongest character trait.

[JM Hanes]

hit:

"But in the days after the election, it is Kirk’s status that matters, not Brown’s."

Cross posting from the Schilling thread:

It would be nice to think so, but as we've seen all too recently, disputes over certification and official admission to the Senate chambers can take plenty long enough. Kirk's status as the sitting Senator will continue till Brown is actually sworn in. The White House is burning the midnight oil to get healthcare in under that wire.

[JM Hanes]

"Groups don't need large numbers to fall prey to delusional belief and wishful thinking....."

..... sez the proof of that pudding.

[cathyf]

Interesting you should note Rick and PUK, as those are probably the only two writers at JOM who I could consistently identify without reading their signature line. Though whenever a grizzly bear or erupting volcano was mentioned, one could be pretty sure it was Daddy.

I'm amused that Daddy's "voice" only shifts slightly when drunkblogging.

[Porchlight]

JMH,

I'm sure they will try. What if Lieberman refuses to vote yes under those circumstances, though?

[anduril]

1. Friedman is clearly not propounding a new isolationism--just more intelligent involvement: "We can be the wind at their backs, but we can’t be their sails. There is some hope for Iraq and Iran today because their moderates are fighting for themselves."

2. Friedman is perfectly well aware of the role the US has played in the China - Taiwan relationship and that the current situation is the result of a complex development: "China and Taiwan have reached a quiet rapprochement — on their own. No special envoys or shuttling secretaries of state. Yes, our Navy was a critical stabilizer. But they worked it out. They realized their own interdependence. The result: a new web of economic ties, direct flights and student exchanges." The fact is, any Chinese action against Taiwan would have had huge downsides even without US involvement.

3. Matt, I agree with most of what you say. The fact is, from Nixon on the US has been slowly coming to terms with and seeking to manage the re-emergence of China as at least a major regional power in a region that is very important to our interests as well as theirs. Unfortunately, Clinton and Dubya did poor jobs in this area.

[Danube of Thought]

I keep clinging to this Mr.-Smith-goes-to-Washington notion that at some point some Democrat Senator is going to stand up and say "wait a minute: this madness has gone way too far, and it has to stop right now."

Should Brown win, my pick for that role would be Joe Lieberman. And, fittingly enough, he is no longer a Democrat.

[Captain Hate]

Aides report that Bill always carries a chunk of ice in his pocket.

Is that something he chipped off just under the pantsuit?

[caro]

JMH,I am sure you will take pictures. Have a great time.

[clarice]

I think the notion that they'd let Kirk cast a deciding vote while they stalled the certification is a bridge too far from people who are already looking between the planks on the bridge they are on and see swirling, killer rapids below them.
If we were playin poker, I'd call them believing it to be a bluff.

[Rick Ballard]

Clarice,

Agreed. It's Russian Roulette using a M1911. Only true progressives are smart enough to play.

[PaulV]

Too dangerous for Ds to pass ReidPelosiCare after Brown wins. I expect that some of them are not that stupid. I could be wrong.

[sbw]

It's Russian Roulette using a M1911. Only true progressives are smart enough to play.

[Snicker!]

[Danube of Thought]

If forced to choose between a Chargers victory today and a Brown victory Tuesday, I'd opt for Brown and it's a no-brainer. Shows you how committed I am.

Please, God, don't make me choose.

[Boatbuilder]

Friedman: "We can be the wind at their backs, but we can't be their sails. There is some hope for Iraq and Iran Today because their moderates are fighting for themselves."

Geez, Anduril--how the hell did that come about? You don't suppose those evil and stupid Neocons, or America's absolutely heroic military, had anthing to do with it, do you?

Let's just walk away and see how things work out for democratic movements in the Mideast. And for us in the long term.

Dopes.

[anduril]

Hey--two miracles in one day! Maybe a third seeming miracle on Tuesday?

First Friedman writes a good article, then David Brooks: The Underlying Tragedy. This is about the real tragedy of Haiti, and Brooks speaks what are--in the liberal dominated public discourse of the US--some very "inconvenient truths." Here's a selection, plucked from their original context:

[Obama’s] going to have to acknowledge a few difficult truths.

The first of those truths is that we don’t know how to use aid to reduce poverty.

The second hard truth is that micro-aid is vital but insufficient.

Third, it is time to put the thorny issue of culture at the center of efforts to tackle global poverty. Why is Haiti so poor?

We’re all supposed to politely respect each other’s cultures. But some cultures are more progress-resistant than others, and a horrible tragedy was just exacerbated by one of them.

Fourth, it’s time to promote locally led paternalism.

It’s time to find self-confident local leaders who will create No Excuses countercultures in places like Haiti, surrounding people — maybe just in a neighborhood or a school — with middle-class assumptions, an achievement ethos and tough, measurable demands.

Go to the original for the full context and discussion. Obviously this relates pretty well to Friedman's thesis, but it also seems very relevant to much of our own domestic policy.

[Boatbuilder]

DOT. I have my money on both. And I despise the Chargers!

[anduril]

Boatbuilder, rather than respond myself I'll leave it to Friedman himself to do the explaining, since he seems to have foreseen exactly the ways in which people who didn't read his article would try to misrepresent his views:

Am I going isolationist? No, but visiting the greater China region always leaves me envious of the leaders of Hong Kong, Taiwan and China, who surely get to spend more of their time focusing on how to build their nations than my president, whose agenda can be derailed at any moment by a jihadist death cult using exploding underpants.

Could we just walk away? No, but we must change our emphasis. The “war on terrorists” has to begin by our challenging the people and leaders over there. If they’re not ready to take the lead, to speak out and fight the madness in their midst, for the future of their own societies, there is no way we can succeed. We’ll exhaust ourselves trying. We’d be better off just building a higher wall.

Conservatives should be the people open to new ideas and approaches, no matter what their source.

[Boatbuilder]

But what if those self-confident local leaders turn out to be vocal and confident Christians, or enjoy the Haitian equivalent of Moose-hunting, or don't think Obama is self-evidently brilliant? How will the people Brooksie expects to "find" these local heroes stand the smell?
Hmmm? "Middle-class assumptions, an achievement ethos and tough, measurable demands." Who does that sound like to you, and how would Brooksie ever recognize such a person?

[Danube of Thought]

I think Friedman is almost always quite silly, and today is no exception.

[Boatbuilder]

Sure,Andi--they should listen to the folks like you and Friedman who have undermined and criticized them at every possible turn.

Here's a new idea for you, Andi--maybe you and Friedman could shut up and try to learn something from the (neo)conservatives.

"Conservatives should be the people open to new ideas and approaches, no matter what their source." WTF?

[Porchlight]

That's funny re: the Chargers, DoT, I was thinking the same thing yesterday about my Vikings. I would trade in a heartbeat, no questions asked.

[clarice]

Didja hguys notice, the intel agencies are now walking back their idiotic 2007 NIE which claimed Iran was giving up its nuclear ambitions?

Insty has the details.

Trying to patch up the make believe report to make it conform with M16, Mossad and the German intel services instead of , say, Obama and his crack strategic advisors..

[Ann]

Found this at Doug Ross Journal:

:)

[Porchlight]

RedState: Driehaus Insists On Stupak Language

This is the OH rep (Ann, did you say he is your guy?) who voted for Obamacare in the House but who is polling 17 points behind his challenger according to a poll that came out yesterday.

[anduril]

"I think Friedman is almost always quite silly, and today is no exception."

There! That was easy!

[Tina]

FNC just reported (Carl Cameron) saying the hall for the Coakley campaign event with teh one is NOT full.

At the same time, there is this posted over at the Corner:
--------------------------
From a Friend at the Brown Rally in Worcester [Kathryn Jean Lopez]"It's an absolute mob scene. The police have closed off the streets. It's mind blowing. The hall is already full, and it holds 3,000 people. There may be another 1,000 people outside."

Having lived in MA for many years (many years ago) I'm very interested in the outcome of this race. Go Brown.

[Ann]

Porchlight: No, I have a terrific congressman, Pat Tiberi.

This is from the corner:

From a Friend at the Brown Rally in Worcester [Kathryn Jean Lopez]

"It's an absolute mob scene. The police have closed off the streets. It's mind blowing. The hall is already full, and it holds 3,000 people. There may be another 1,000 people outside."

and here is a pic: Mechanics Hall

[Ann]

Oops, sorry Tina. :)

Welcome to JOM!

[Ann]

Good Grief:

Democratic 'tolerance' rears its ugly head in Mass. Senate race

[clarice]

Jihad and the DoD (Andrew Bostom)
It's not only the IPCC that's melting down, it seems:
http://www.andrewbostom.org/blog/2010/01/17/jihad-and-the-department-of-dawah-er-defense/>Dept of Dumb

[centralcal]

LOL, Ann - I think those gals are a little bit worried about their candidate and Zero!

Isn't the crowd at Mechanic's Hall great! Go Brown!

[Rick Ballard]

Charlie Cook gives Brown the nod. Cook is theoretically bi-partisan but generally tilts Dem. A very savvy long time observer. The fat lady continues to do scales in the wings but she's turned up the volume a bit.

[Danube of Thought]

Of course it was easy, Anduril.

As the Duke said, "life's tough, but it's a lot tougher if you're stupid."

[Danube of Thought]

Charlie Cook just declared Brown a slight favorite.

[What's Next, Gravity?]

Check out NewtonGate at carbonfixated.com
=====================================

[Tina]

Obama getting heckled in speech at Oakley campaign? Being covered on all cable nets. Has Brown's rally today gotten any coverage?

[centralcal]

Oh, dear - looks like some Brown supporters infiltrated Dear Leader's big event.

Woo Hoo!

[Sue]

Isn't this supposed to be a Martha Coakley rally? Why then is Obama saying "that's why I"? He just can't stop himself, can he?

[Porchlight]

No, he really can't. Campaigning for other people is not his thing, is it?

[Captain Hate]

Porch I don't think doing anything for other people is his thing.

[Ann]

Obama has lost his COOL!

Does Brown own a GM truck or a Ford truck?

[Sue]

Obama doesn't have his teleprompter, does he?

[Sue]

He does have the teleprompter. I just saw it. So why was he so choppy and stuttery?

[centralcal]

Yep - TOTUS was there, but still he fumble bummed his way through his halleuiah moments.

[Porchlight]

Kathryn Lopez at NRO says he referenced Brown driving a truck 5 times. Is that supposed to be code for "teabagger" or something? What a snob.

[Ann]

That was pathetic. Especially the truck jokes.
What a bunch of snobs.

[Ann]

I'd rather ride in a truck with Scott Brown than an Oldsmobile with Ted Kennedcy.

LOL TheFlacracker tweet

[Soupy S]

"Does Brown own a GM truck or a Ford truck?"

GMC pick up with 200k miles on it. It was in an ad of his called "Hey, Dad"

LUN

[Sue]

That representative from Florida, I can never remember her name, Debbie something, with curly hair...she was stuttering like Obama when she was asked why Coakley went from 30 points up to a dead heat. Then she repeated the rape lie. Finished with a flouish though, saying it was a lie that Coakley said 1) Schilling was a Yankee fan, 2) no terrorists in Afghanistan and 3) wants people to pay more taxes. Even though all of those are quotes from Coakley, it is lie she said them. Great job, curly haired Florida rep.

[Dave (in MA)]

That representative from Florida, I can never remember her name, Debbie something,

Debbie Wasserman-?">http://www.jadn.com/~bob/audio/i/schultz.gif">?

I know nothing.

[Ann]

Soupy S:

Thanks! Wait til Obama hears he was making fun of a truck he owns. Ha ha ha

[Sue]

LOL. Maybe now I will remember the last part of her hyphenated name. Schultz!

[Soupy S]

In the LUN is an entertaining Youtube clip of someone interviewing those in line at the Obama/Coakley rally today.

[Pofarmer]

What I wanna know, Kim, is where those guys got their bogus temperature graphs and carbonfixated?

[Neo]

I have to keep reminding myself that this is MA .. not PA, MN, OH or some other battleground state. This is MA .. the state that when for McGovern went Nixon crushed him in 49 other states.

I wouldn’t want to be a Democrat now .. even in a “safe” seat.

[Janet]

Your video link Soupy S at 5:03 is really good. Very telling too. A line of young people wanting to see Obama. Not there to see Coakley, or vote for her.

[Ann]

Excellent, Soupy S. That was delightful to watch.

Jane and Rocco:

You must watch this when you get back: Obama in Boston for Coakley

Thanks again, Soupy S. Welcome and please stick around.

[Sue]

Was it just me or were most of those people (in the video Soupy linked) from NY?

[hit and run]

Love love love the Soupy S video!!!

[Fresh Air]

Vive le difference!

Brown supporters:

Choakley supporters:

[hit and run]

You know,if it were purely personal,I would hate the SSP,but since it might actually help in the Scott Brown effort,I'm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgxT6T1iXLQ>linking my video again.

If you've already seen it,don't bother clicking,nothing's changed (unless you haven't rated it or commented).

If you haven't seen it,the lives of all mankind depend on you clicking it,including all children and puppies.

Help save the puppies.

[Jane]

Okay I'm back from the rally - and I never found Rocco - cause it was busy! Overflow was at the Crown Plaza.