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January 30, 2010

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clarice

NYPost says the trial might well be in Gitmo by military tribunal *(I said this yesterday or maybe even the day before). The administration which was so critical of Gitmo and military tribunals under Bush is apparently citing Congressional refusal to pay the high cost of civil trials as its reason.
My guess..that's true, but it's also true that Holder's idiocies are costing them in the polls and they know it.
LUN

Cecil Turner

That link didn't work for me Clarice; here is another shot at it. I have a hard time believing the Administration will go through with it, mostly because of this:

Such a move would likely bring howls of protest from liberals already frustrated that President Obama has failed to meet his deadline for closing the prison at Guantanamo Bay.

It would also indicate that after years of attacking the Bush administration for its handling of the war on terror, Obama officials are embracing one of the most controversial aspects of it.

Politically, this is a loser, alienating the only solid support base the President has left. Though again, I hope I'm wrong.

peter

Oh, mighty TM, you are so funny! Gibbs is one of the Bee Gees! Hysterical. "I Started a Joke" was a hit when I hit puberty. Its whingey melody resonated with me as I went through hormonal changes.
You the man, Tom Maguire.

Jack is Back!

Let me see:

Olympics = denied

Virginia = denied

New Jersey = denied

Copenhagen agreement = denied

"the Kennedy seat" = denied

Coerced bi-partisanship = denied

TSA Director = denied

Health Care Reform (so far) = denied

Lower Manhattan trial site = denied

I's also be bored, lethargic and tired of this job. Where's the love?

Then on top of everything else, this guy Scott Brown and his American Idol daughter are calling me out for a game of b-ball. Its almost like the Rodney Dangerfield presidency.

Extraneus

Imagine the realization that all of your ideas are stupid?

That's gotta hurt.

clarice

Prosecution of Bybee and Yoo =Apparently denied.

Cap& Trade=pretty certain to lose
Global Warming=Hoax
Stimulus pkg=not a dent in ever growing unemployment

pagar

I don't think he has ideas. Just repeats what the puppet master tells him.

Rick Ballard

Perhaps a poll restricted to the unicorn and rainbow set (the only solid support base the President has left) could be commissioned?

1. Which of the President's broken promises do you find most disappointing in light of his party's control of Congress*:

A. Failure to withdraw troops from the ME.

B. Failure to close Guantanamo.

C. Failure to achieve health care reform.

D. Failure to halt Predator attacks upon innocent civilians.

E. Failure to stem losses in employment.

F. Failure to stem rising foreclosure rates.

G. Other failure ________________

* Response to this poll is mandatory. Failure to respond will result in waterboarding pursuant to DoJ guidelines.

clarice

Wouldn't work, Rick..His base base doesn't even know about most of those things.Those questions do pose a delicious possibility for a series of targeted push polls.

Melinda Romanoff

Good morning all-

If this works right, a Michael Lewis story on Goldman will be found here .

Melinda Romanoff

Hmmmm.

pagar

We need an all of the above choice.

Jack is Back!

Clarice,

Your reply to Rick about his base reminds me - we haven't heard from MoveOn.Org in a while. I thought they were his official apologists and propagandists? You'd think they would continue to provide a "blame Bush" cover, at least.

Melinda Romanoff

Here.< /a>

Melinda Romanoff

I'll go practice someplace else, sorry.

peter

Not to worry, Melinda. My New Year's resolution for the past three years has been to learn html. Easier to lose fifteen pounds. try the LUN

Melinda Romanoff

HERE!

Jane

this guy Scott Brown and his American Idol daughter are calling me out for a game of b-ball.

I think if Bambi gets beaten by a girl he will have a breakdown.

Actually maybe the stakes should be: Brown and Brown win, Bambi resigns.

Porchlight

Oh, mighty TM, you are so funny! Gibbs is one of the Bee Gees! Hysterical. "I Started a Joke" was a hit when I hit puberty.

Another timely Bee Gees hit: "Massachusetts."

pagar

Bambi resigns, we have Biden. That is why Biden was picked in the first place. Houston, we have a problem.

Porchlight

Palin on the terrorist trials - a jab at "never let a crisis go to waste" Rahm:

Stay Focused: Relocating Terrorist's Trial Doesn't Solve The Problem

Jane

I'd prefer Biden. He's stupid but not an ideologue.

Sue

Rick,

The party of "NO" is responsible for Obama's failures. I found that out this morning. ::sigh::

windansea

Guantanamo military trial an option for Khalid Sheikh Mohammed

Fox News

By Major Garrett

In the aftermath of the White House's decision to seek alternative sites for trials of the 9/11 plotters, including alleged mastermind Khalid Sheik Mohammed, a senior administration official said Friday it is possible the suspects could be tried under military charges at the Guantanamo Bay detention facility.

The official stressed this is not the preferred option, but said using military commissions at Guantanamo for these high-visibility trials is "part of the range of options" the adminstration is "looking at in light of the fact some in Congress are planning to prevent the trials from occurring in New York City."

There is no timeline for deciding where to hold the trials of the five suspects charged in the 2001 attacks. Senior White House and Justice Department officials are reviewing a "wide panoply" of options and Guantanamo is merely "one of many," the official said....

clarice

See, an ordinary person of ordinary intelligence would have figured this out right away, but really nuanced Ivy League grads like Obama and Holder--no so fast..They have to get their pants pulled down in public to understand why the notion of a criminal court proceeding anywhere in the US is idiotic.

narciso

Iowahawk bringing down T Coddington Voorhees, as only he can, in the LUN

Cecil Turner

Yeah, like dumb ol' Sarah Palin, who figured it out pretty quickly.

clarice

Exactly,cecil. Or anyone of the real people you interact with every day..who either know the score or suffer the consequences of their fecklessness.

Cecil Turner

Concur. You know what else this is reminiscent of? Scalia's dissent in Hamdi (in which he proposed giving citizen combatants the right to habeas corpus)--brilliantly argued--which effectively sided him with the court's "meaningful opportunity to contest the factual basis for that detention" requirement. Only Thomas was pedestrian enough to uphold US war powers:

I do not think that the Federal Government’s war powers can be balanced away by this Court. Arguably, Congress could provide for additional procedural protections, but until it does, we have no right to insist upon them. But even if I were to agree with the general approach the plurality takes, I could not accept the particulars. The plurality utterly fails to account for the Government’s compelling interests and for our own institutional inability to weigh competing concerns correctly. I respectfully dissent. [emphasis added]
At least now Thomas is pulling four votes with the "common sense" approach. Doesn't look like he'll win any time soon, though, so the ball is back in Congress's court.

centralcal

Re: Obama talking to the GOP. I have only seen a few clips here and there, but did anyone else notice Obama doing the middle finger gesture to the temple, again?

Can't remember where I saw it, maybe Jake Tapper's ABC report (maybe not).

Anyhow - once a jerk, always a jerk.

narciso

I noticed that with some of the decisions at the appellate level, (notably Cotelly-Villar
and Urbina) who took pains to deliberately
ignore the relevant precedents, and relied
on cases like Councilmen, which concerned
on prosecuting enlisted navy personnel???

As Cecil pointed out, and Thiessen goes into greater detail, they deliberately ignored the reasoning of their own prior decisions, without any evidence that would dictate the change

Danube of Thought

The fundamental problem with trying these guys to a military commission in Gitmo is that is so simple, easy and efficient. Right away that puts it off limits for this bunch.

I'm wondering whether Holder and Rahm last the year.

clarice

ahem--per Voorhees (Iowahawk) Obama is "the big pianist" we've been waiting for.

Porchlight

Per Ras, looks like Obama got a solid bounce from the SOTU (he's up to -12), but only among Dems/strong supporters. GOP/independent support unchanged. And majorities were unconvinced by most of his claims in the speech.

Ed at HotAir has a good analysis: Post-SOTU poll shows disbelief among most voters on Obama claims

I'm encouraged that only the left seems to have found the SOTU and the Q&A to be positive and energizing. That's a shot in the arm for Obama, to be sure, but it means he hasn't changed any minds where it really counts.

narciso

So, it's curious that Pelosi was able to force
them to stop funding moderate candidates in Iraq, yet she couldn't do the same for waterboarding, in the LUN

Porchlight

p.s. Meant to add, it also means he isn't truly pivoting to the center, but doubling down to rev up the base. So he's not following the Clinton path, at least not yet.

clarice

porch--don't forget that right AFTER that speech we get hints that Bybee and Yoo are cleared and that KSM will probably be tried by a military tribunal in Gitmo and that he okayed more spending for nuclear weapons.


Wait till that news hits the base.

Danube of Thought

Where are the stories about Bybee and Yoo?

Danube of Thought

Never mind--found 'em.

narciso

This is all and all, a confused take on the populist moment, which loses out and more than he get right, in the LUN

bgates

“I think I can acknowledge the obvious,” an administration official said.

No wonder he stayed anonymous. This administration doesn't look kindly on people who do that.

This isn't strictly a BeeGees number, though the cameo is pretty good, and it was timelier a year ago, but - Yes He Can!

Ignatz

--Per Ras, looks like Obama got a solid bounce from the SOTU (he's up to -12)--

Perhaps the perception the economy is improving also contributed, with the GDP number?

narciso

An interesting take on what China and Russia are doing while we are not focused, in the LUN

Porchlight

Wait till that news hits the base.

True, that probably didn't have much of an impact in the Friday sample since the news came out so late.

Ignatz, GDP could have been a factor but I don't think Ras mentioned it - he seemed to be concentrating on the SOTU in his analysis.

Captain Hate

"I Started a Joke" was a hit when I hit puberty. Its whingey melody resonated with me as I went through hormonal changes.

I hope that means you're putting your affinity for it in the very distant past.

Danube of Thought

It's nice that Susan Collins said what she did about the crotchbomber fiasco, but every time I hear her speak I wonder if she isn't slightly retarded.

windansea

Pelosi sings "Ain't no mountain high enough"

"We will go through the gate. If the gate is closed, we will go over the fence. If the fence is too high, we will pole vault in. If that doesn't work, we will parachute in," Pelosi said. "But we are going to get health care reform passed for the American people."

Topsecretk9

Hey Clarice

Do you think this commenter Mary over at Empty's place could be Mary McCarthy...LUN and then scroll down for a another lengthy one.

Also, hilarious Jason Leopold is apparently a commenter at Empty's that she engages.

Jane

I agree DoT - what is wrong with her speech?

centralcal

I have wondered for years about Collin's speech pattern (impediment?). You would think that if she did have some sort of speech impediment, that it would have been sympathetically publicized at some point, so as to not make her appear "retarded."

But, I don't know of any such explanation ever being given. Reporters, commentators just seem to pretend she is speaking normally.

Rick Ballard

"...I wonder if she isn't slightly retarded."

I haven't seen anything which indicates that she has improved to that point.

clarice

I have no idea, tops. moreover, I haven't a clue about what Mary's talking as it seems to ramble on and on...except she seems to be attacking Margolis, who is widely respected and eperienced. She seems upset that a non-partisan atty who did know what he was doing and who has an impeccable reputation for smarts and probity was tasked for this decision.

Are those people so nuts they honestly believed Bybee and Yoo would somehow be punished for their opinions, opinions which spared us IMO and in the opinion of most people who do not regard national suicide as a serious option.

narciso

Yes, they are certifiable, "Bush Hitler, Halliburton, Blackwater," that is the extent
of their knowledge. Thiessen goes into a fair
amount, dismantling the pretensions of Mayer,
Danner, Ratner, et al, He could have added
Carol Rosenberg, our own local ray of sunshine

bio mom

47/47 in gallup

macphisto

the BeeGees remix i'm anticipating is "New York Election Disaster 2010."

Frau Tierfreund

...but did anyone else notice Obama doing the middle finger gesture to the temple, again?
Pres.Cool hates that, but his overlords force him do it to remind him of their control.

If the trial is moved to a military court, it will be cosmic justice for BHO. A NY town, however, has offered to "host" the trial.

Danube of Thought

"47/47 in gallup"

I think that's from a week ago.

clarice

Congress would have to approve funs for transferring KSM here and at least $200 million to cover the security costs of the trial, the trial 2/3 of Americans believe should not occur in uS civilian courts.
Not going to happen.

bio mom

Nope Danube. It's from today.Approval down 1 and disapproval up 2.

clarice

**funDs**

bgates

Clarice, I think during the era of funemployment, we should try to make people happy about government funs too.

clarice

*thwack*
You try typing with a crazy cat hanging from your right arm because she wants you to toss her Da Bird toy around for another hour or two..Go on, try it!

bgates

Clarice, I may not like cats much, but I'd never toss one Da Bird.

What do you think I am, President?

clarice

Funny you should say that, bgates..Well, the light in here is a bit dim..

Extraneus

"We will go through the gate. If the gate is closed, we will go over the fence. If the fence is too high, we will pole vault in. If that doesn't work, we will parachute in," Pelosi said. "But we are going to get health care reform passed for the American people."

Pretty interesting metaphor there, windandsea.

"One way or another, we will get inside."

Katherine

Extraneus,
"Imagine the realization that all of your ideas are stupid?"

Imagine the realization that reality is not a post-modernist construct, altered at will?

Though I don't think they are ready to acknowledge either yet.

Extraneus

I'd always had the impression that post-modernism was a b.s. concept, but never had the urge to look up what the term was supposed to mean.

Thanks, Katherine.

Postmodernism was originally a reaction to modernism. Largely influenced by the Western European disillusionment induced by World War II, postmodernism refers to a cultural, intellectual, or artistic state lacking a clear central hierarchy or organizing principle and embodying extreme complexity, contradiction, ambiguity, diversity, interconnectedness or interreferentiality,[4] in a way that is often indistinguishable from a parody of itself. It has given rise to charges of fraudulence.
Kinda reads like b.s.
narciso

Don't have the LUN just yet, but apparently Sarah Pac raised 1.4 million dollars for the last half of the year

Rick Ballard

Extraneous,

Pomo is for people who support the repeal of Ohm's Law so that power may flow more freely to the masses and want Congress to pass a bill making pi = 3 in order to make geometry more accessible to the disadvantaged.

BS doesn't even scratch the surface.

narciso

It does recall that Bea Arthur line in the Roman section of History of the World, did
you 'philosophize' bs, or plan to bs, this
week

daddy

Did I miss this and did you guys know this?

The Times of India has a new story out saying ">http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/us/Barack-Obama-seeks-USD-200m-to-help-cities-host-9/11-trials/articleshow/5518947.cms"> Barack Obama seeks USD 200m to help cities host 9/11 trials.

That didn't pop out at me up above.

"The Obama administration is proposing a USD 200 million fund to help pay for security costs in cities hosting the trials of accused
terrorists such as September 11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.

A congressional aide familiar with the plan says the money will be included in the president's budget being released Monday. The aide spoke on condition of anonymity because the spending blueprint hasn't been announced."

Sorry if you guys already knew that and I just missed it.

boris

Postmodernism provides adherants with protection against cognitive dissonance and the perksy constraints associated with the premise of a single reality we all inhabit.

No need for discredited notions like common ground or holding intentions responsible for their predictible consequences.

It does confer some rhetorical advantages for exploiting a certain amount of Cargo-Cult tendencies in society. It can also exploit an opposite idea where some people are convinced their perception is spot on reality. An unnecessary disadvantage worth discarding when dealing with postmodernism.

boris

* pesky constraints *

Danube of Thought

Thanks, bio mom. Great news.

Even greater than watching the once-proud Blue Devils absorb a savage drubbing on national TV.

sbw

If you think PoMo is something, spend some time on PoCo. Whatever I say is legitimate because I say it, and you can't possibly understand.

Ignatz

--Even greater than watching the once-proud Blue Devils absorb a savage drubbing on national TV.--

Duke can go to hell!

That was your suggested "Carthage must be destroyed" motto, correct daddy?

Captain Hate

That was your suggested "Carthage must be destroyed" motto, correct daddy?

Why yes, that is correct. Btw daddy, have you noted the team currently atop the ACC? Here's a hint: I'd hate to pay the head coach's dry cleaning bills.

daddy

errr, uhhh, lot of weather we've been having here Captain Hate.

Frau Tierfreund

Reading this thread is like a flashback to Laugh-In. I'm waiting for Goldie Hawn in bikini or Ruth Buzzy in hairnet to post.

Postmodernism is a load of pure (Democrat) Bandini. Not convinced? Visit the Postmodernism Generator. LUN

daddy

Frau,

You thinks its nuts over here, wait'll you get to the next thread.

narciso

That's the truth, daddy, although I think the word Somprini fits better. I am reminded that Scott Shane was one of those reporters who put the torture meme in motion.

Also in your neck of the woods, the PPP poll indicates that skunks are running away from Begich he is so unpopular, 35% in the first
year. Or about as wanted as Zoidberg after he
ate the flag

daddy

skunks are running away from Begich he is so unpopular

That's great to hear Narciso.

See the ADN story I just linked to on the Jersey Girl thread about his tentative corruption investigation. It's like a scene from Futurama in the Neutral Zone. As to the investigation the FBI seems to have no strong feelings one way or the other, or, as the Neutral Zone Ambassador told us "My gut feeling tells me 'maybe'".

Extraneus

Good one on the postmodern generator, Frau. I thought it was serious at first.

clarice

O got a big bounce from the SOTU..Ras puts him at -7 today.

JM Hanes

I figured he would get the bounce, Clarice. Democrats probably loved hearing him go after Republicans & the Supremes, Independents probably loved the call for bipartisanship, and outside of political junkies, most folks probably don't know just how much of the "substance" in his address was pure bullshit. The SOTU attracted a bigger audience than he's been getting, so I suspect a lot of the people who tuned in may not follow politics all that closely. The pattern of his disapproval numbers didn't change, but it's also probably worth remembering his latent popularity, which has never really tracked the cynicism on the policy front.

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