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March 04, 2010

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anduril

This violence wasn't domestic, but Stratfor has a good discussion nevertheless: Using Intelligence from the al-Mabhouh Hit.

Jane

I wonder what they were fighting about.

Appalled

Atlanta has had more than its share of wierd stories this year. From zebras running lose on the downtown expressway, to the suicide attempt of the speaker of the house (and the subsequent sex schedule of the next speaker of the house -- he revealed that he slept with his first wife's mom while married to first wife). And don't get this transplanted show-a-phobic Yankee started on our once a week threat of snow....

What you may not know is that this shooting took place in an odd spot for something like this...North Avenue is quite a busy street in a busy part of town that's usually pretty safe, and these folks seem to have been near a subway station.

MayBee

its Web site says the group is pushing legislation to create a database of those convicted of sex crimes or domestic abuse.

Well, it sounds like her "group's" registration list now has a dual purpose.

bio mom

Other thread is too long so this is off topic for this thread. If the House votes to accept the Senate bill, then, we have Obamacare and all the reconciliation talk is just that-talk. A bill will have passed both houses and can then be signed by Obama. Mission accomplished for them. How can this be stopped. Don't fall for reconciliation as the stopgap. It is a side issue.

The Once

Damn, it's a good thing Michelle is fighting the Obesity Epidemic and not Domestic Violence! Sheesh! I need a smoke!

The irony amuses, though.  In this day and age, the violence done by women to men is terribly under-reported.

I, too, hate to distract from the important thing today, ObamaCareless, but the NRO has a wonderful article about the 'Green Job Fantasy' by which Senator Graham is selling out his party, his people and his country.

This madwoman of Atlanta? Yes, we know people are hypocritical, and we know people commit crimes of passion. There's little more to this story than that.
===================

daddy

TM,

I think the amazing thing about this story is that the AJC Reporters actually used the internet to look into her website and do a bit of background on the subject.

Where the heck did they learn how to do that?

And do you think there's any chance they could teach that skill to the WaPo or NYTimes folks?

narciso

The main problem here, is I don't see the Iranians that restrained, or this administration well, competent in the LUN

Sue

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=YmU1YThmODhmZGExY2NkY2Q5NmU2NmI4MjYzMTExYzA=>Speaking of one Paul Ryan doesn't see how we can undo anything that is passed.

There is evil abroad, folks; for how long even kim doesn't know.

Elsewhere, too, there is commentary about how this administration enlisted the Center for American Progress to do a hatchet job on the Spanish study which debunks the green job myth.
======================

MayBee

I saw that too, kim. I'd love that story to get more attention.

daddy

Just for OT,

Cecil arrives today. Just looked out the window and snow is falling on the Hillside, so though I hope it continues a while, I doubt it'll last by morning.

This week end is a continuation of our big ">http://www.furrondy.net/"> Fur Rondy Winter Festival. Cecil has missed the running of the rein deer (take that Pamplona) but there should still be some fun events and dog races on Saturday.

Cecil, if you're up later, my local cell number is 242-0881.

Hope to see you in Humpy's ballpark 5 PM.

Not!

Maybee, the EPA is going to go down in flames in the lawsuits about their endangerment finding. It's going to be like dynamiting fish in a barrel. Just yesterday Lisa Jackson told Congress that the science behind climate change is settled.
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Danube of Thought

BioMom's understanding is identical to mine. Here is a helpful piece from Slate on the whole subject, including an effort at counting the votes.

There is zero doubt that if the house passes the existing senate bill as is, there is nothing whatsoever preventing its becoming law.

However, there seems to be some discussion to the effect that the house can't get a majority unless the reconciliation package were "pre-passed," i.e. passed before the house votes on the senate bill. This is where Conrad's point arises: he says you can't do reconciliation of a bill that hasn't been passed by both houses.

I wonder if any of them have any sense of what duplicitous bastards they are.

A nice ironic conundrum there DoT. How much will the House trust Obama? Or, heh, The Rahm?
===============

pagar

The Link to the NRO Sen Graham sellout of his constituents and all Americans, as mentioned in the 10:09 post.

One Term President.

There is a nice rap video, found through HotAir, about OTP.
==============

Captain Hate

Now Sander Levin is replacement for Chollie Rangel on Ways and Means

glasater

Obama administration colluded with 'windmill welfare queens' to rebut European 'green job'studies

Kim's other link--I think:)

anduril

This David Harsanyi article, implicitly, gets at the core issue in the Obamacare debate: are we authoritarians pulling the strings on mindless puppets, or do we stand for human dignity and responsibility for one's own life. Two steps forward, no steps back.

It's about time to make the analogy between this administration's lies about climate and their lies about Health Care.

I was about to try to link Walter Russell Mead's rant about the failure of the NYT and the MSM on ClimateGate, but in the comments I see it's been InstaLaunched. He's good.
===============

Old Lurker

Sue, thanks for the Paul Ryan link. I think he is correct, and that makes two "whistling past the graveyard" concepts giving Reps some comfort (which I think should not):

If the Senate Bill passes the House, then no real attempt to block the Fixit Bill will be mounted.

If this becomes law, it might galvanize the Midterms but will not result in repealing the worst of the damage.

pagar

" the violence done by women to men is terribly under-reported."

There is another form of violence that won't be seen in most MSM Reporting

"Saudi Arabia: Woman Gets 300 Lashes, 18 Months in Jail Because She Filed Harassment Complaint "Without Her Male Guardian" Present"

Bonus question: The number of American women's organizations quoted as being upset by this is?

Sue

FYI, Stark has passed the gavel to Levin.

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MGI5ZDYwMTIyZWUwMTliMjQ2ODdlYjNiMzQ0OGY1YWQ=>Musical chairman

Climate hysteria is over.  Now it's time for Obama to be over, the OTP.

Yep, glasater, it's Chris Horner's work, and I think Chaco mentioned it somewhere yesterday. Thanks also, Pagar. It's just stunning how much doubt and ridicule is seeping into the discussion of climate, and it's creeping into our mainstream press, finally.
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Danube of Thought

I can't see a repeal happening until January, 2013, by which time it may well be too late. But at least we'll only need 51 votes in the Senate.

Janet

Okay...it looks like we're all gonna have to become hyphenated Amish for our religion to be exempt from this fiasco. I am now an Evangelical-Amish.
Maybe some entrepreneur in Nebraska could also sell 1 inch square plots of land so we could all "live" in Nebraska and not have to fund Medicaid. Same for a 1 inch plot of land in Florida so we can get protection for our Medicare Advantage programs.

Clarice

I rather liked Stark for Rangel, frankly. It emphasized what a deep bench the Dems have.

Sue

DoT,

Paul Ryan is of the opinion that if it passes, it will be virtually impossible to repeal it. Andy McCarthy says the same thing. If it passes, it is forever.

Old Lurker

DoT what do you think about the rumor they will do the Fixit Bill in advance of adopting the Senate Bill?

I've lost track of where I've been today, but it's still early.

Meh, the OTP video is at Big Government.
================

Danube of Thought

OL, my understanding is that that's the procedure Kent Conrad says is an absolute non-starter because you can't reconcile a bill that hasn't been passed by both houses. And he's the chairman of the budget committee, so his position seems likely to prevail.

That doesn't mean that the senate and house can't agree in advance as to what the reconciliation will look like, down to the last detail, once the house passes the senate bill. But that still means that the house must trust that the senate will go through with what's been agreed to, and that the parliamentarian will put his stamp on it. (I do believe that at that point it does the GOP no good at all to interfere with reconciliation.)

Jim Ryan

it is forever.

BS. A year ago this country was "over" because the muddle and the miscreants elected Zero. Now look at what happened to Zero, Nancy, and Harry. Now look at the Tea Party. Look at the polls. Look at the awakening of a slumbering American.

The job now is nullify and repeal. One of those two will get done. There is no time to get all down in the mouth about any of this, especially when that means reverting to the same gloomy evaluation of the electorate that has recently been disproven. The electorate has gone from point A to point B. Now on to point C: repeal and nullify. And if that doesn't work because Zero vetoes, then onwards to D: a conservative president or a veto override. Don't give up!

Point C also includes electing a Congress in November that slashes the budget. We've got seven good candidates running against Perriello down here in VA-5. One of them, McKelvey, has a large, heavy, blunt axe which he wants to use to cut the budget. He's not the only one.

Onward!

Old Lurker

From Powerline:

"...Cunningham begins his column with this thought extracted from the mind of a hypothetical Democrat: "Hey, passing health- care reform may cost us the House or even the Senate this fall -- but we'll get control back eventually, and the Republicans will never be able to repeal it."

Isn't that right? I have always thought that repeal would be impossible as a practical matter once the damned thing is enacted. Andrew McCarthy holds: "If Obamacare passes, Obamacare is forever." Repeal is theoretically possible, but it would defy the laws of political gravity.

I therefore think that it's an error to take consolation in the political damage that the final push for Obamacare will do to Democrats. The thing must be stopped. If stopping it improves the fortunes of Democrats, we must be willing to pay the price."

Thomas Collins

The McCarthy article mentioned by Sue is at LUN.

Whatever are the necessary ins and outs of the two bill/budget reconciliation/House-Senate reconciliation process, it is most likely the case that (i) the Dems have it figured out, (ii) the GOP will huff and puff but won't be able to stop this train wreck (and wouldn't if they could; see McCarthy's description of the failure to support Bunning in the LUN), (iii) the Dems will get enough votes to pass this monstrosity, (iv) it won't be repealed notwithstanding what happens this November, (v) that portion of the monied class that has an "in" with the governing class will do fine, (vi) the middle class entrepreneurs will get $crewed, and (vii) health care quality will decline over time, even for those who will have a "right" they didn't have before. And liberals, emboldended by their win, will be even more condescending than they are now.

Other than that, I am optimistic about how things are going.

Old Lurker

TC...Did I write that? Might have....

Jane

Look closely at that form. It clearly says she is "FOR" domestic violence.

If this becomes law, it might galvanize the Midterms but will not result in repealing the worst of the damage.

The states can opt out, ala Virginia. Of course I'm in Massachusetts.

As of now, she doesn't have the votes.

Thomas Collins

Old Lurker, I think you and I are united in the hope that when this all shakes out, we'll be eating crow served to us by our JOM friends on a platter!

Clarice

This is just madness--from The Hill"

White House press secretary Robert Gibbs said Thursday the White House hopes to see the House approve the healthcare bill by March 18, the first day of the NCAA college basketball tournament and just before President Barack Obama leaves the country on an international trip. Based on conversations the White House has had with Democratic leaders in the House and Senate, healthcare reform is on track to move through Congress before Obama leaves for the trip to Indonesia and Australia, Gibbs said. "We're leaving on March 18 and we believe that we're on schedule,"

At aT James Lewis calls this cram down the ultimate act of a loony narcissist. (Well, he says it in a fancier way )

Danube of Thought

Here's more from Cunningham at the NY Post, who has a more optimistic view than I do about the prospects for repeal.

Jane, I think the states' efforts to opt out will not succeed. Ditto challenges to the mandates.

Jim Ryan

Not in Virginia you don't:
...a resident of the Commonwealth shall not be required to obtain or maintain a policy of individual insurance coverage...

Walter

She seems to be for the orders more than the violence per se.

She never registered as a tax-exempt organization See IRS Pub 78 for a search of all organizations with domestic violence in their name.

Walter

She states on the registration form that she is representing an organization rather than self-employed, but there is no such organization registered in GA. See the GA Secretary of State.

Jane

Jane, I think the states' efforts to opt out will not succeed. Ditto challenges to the mandates.

Really? Why?

Oh and whoever of you is Progbuster. I love you.

You can see Glasater's latest at You Too here.

pagar

" the EPA is going to go down in flames in the lawsuits"

America is going to go broke in the Lawsuits

"Judge Rules Lawsuit Brought by Hurricane Katrina Victims Against Oil Companies For Causing "Global Warming" Can Move Forward"

Walter

She didn't register with the DC equivalent of the Secretary of State either.

Sue

pagar,

I read that earlier. And wondered if it might not be a blessing in disguise. They will have to prove their allegations under oath and leading climatologists (I can't believe I used that word) are backing off their claims.

Ignatz

--Paul Ryan is of the opinion that if it passes, it will be virtually impossible to repeal it.--

Yes, and the reason he gives is because they couldn't repeal it through reconciliation! I like and admire Ryan but this is precisely why the Repubs are so exasperating. They'd rather see their country sink than offend their opposition by playing the same damn game the Dems play.
It makes little difference in the long run I guess. The immutable laws of mathematics are going to repeal virtually all entitlements eventually.

I should ask Chris Mooney when he's going to write 'Calm World'.

Accumulated Cyclone Energy, the total energy in cyclones and hurricanes worldwide is at a thirty year low. That one graph ought to torpedo the lawsuit about global warming causing Katrina.
=======================

Clarice

It'll be before a Mississippi jury--probably the kind that awardser trillions of dollars to the families of lifetime smokers who calim the 12 foot highwarning on each pack was insufficient.

Danube of Thought

"Really? Why?"

I think the courts, and the Supreme Court, will hold that the new federal law pre-empts all state laws in this field.

Danube of Thought

Ryan seems to contemplate the possibility of repeal via reconciliation:

"Nonetheless, Ryan says he has been 'strategizing' with his legislative team to see how 'we could do a reconciliation package to peel this thing back,' but admits that such a measure would be 'very, very tough.'”

Jane

I think the courts, and the Supreme Court, will hold that the new federal law pre-empts all state laws in this field.

If that happens I am prepared to secede.

Ignatz

--'but admits that such a measure would be 'very, very tough.'--

Unfortunately DoT, that type of phrase is usually Republican code for 'we took a look at giving them a dose of their own medicine but in the end chickened out'.
Just ask Jim Bunning about all the support he got.

narciso

This Coffee Party thing, is just ground, in the LUN

matt

Obama's going to Indonesia and Australia? Why?

Nice beachs and to see the family? This man is the most shallow and pathetic empty suit I have ever seen.

The world is facing the most difficult of problems and he wants to sky off and make sure it doesn't interfere with his use of the nations satellite network so he can watch Ball State play Villanova on ESPN 8 while he smokes a bong.

I'm sure he'll lecture us on something before he leaves.

Thomas Collins

Jane, I agree with DOT on the constitutional issue. I think the current SCOTUS would have to change course on the last 70 or so years of cases to hold that ObamaCare exceeds Congressional authority under its powers to tax and regulate interstate commerce. I am not denigrating the arguments of those who have argued otherwise. I am simply speaking as a legal handicapper. I don't think that Scalia, Thomas, Kennedy, Alioto and Roberts can be counted on to be a Death Panel for ObamaCare. By the way, in the arguments on the Chicago gun law case, it appeared as if Scalia was willing to strike down the legislation under the Due Process Clause. Scalia is supposedly an original intenter; yet, it is pretty clear from the text and history of the Civil War Amendments that the Privileges and Immunities Clause is the appropriate provision under which to analyze the constitutionality of the Chicago gun law.

MikeS

'we could do a reconciliation package to peel this thing back,'

I don't know anything about this stuff. It seems to me that the question of what will be covered by the mandated insurance will be a budget buster. As such it may be vulnerable to reconciliation.

Clarice

Heritage says Nancy not only doesn't have the votes, but she's bleeding them and that there is not and will not be a reconciliation bill because an acceptable one will not meet the savings requirement to qualify as a reconciliation bill.
http://blog.heritage.org/2010/03/04/morning-bell-obamacares-kabuki-end-game/#more-27976

Mike Huggins

Boy, Atlantans should sure be grateful they have journalists like those at the AJC willing to do the "hard work" to dig in and get to the bottom of these stories. Tom's post is like watching an F-18 buzz a China gun boat.

Rob Crawford

Obama's going to Indonesia and Australia? Why?

Indonesia -- a pilgrimage to the statue of himself.

Australia -- because it's the only former British colony he hasn't pissed off?

Clarice

Read the heritage article,pls--there's a requirement for reconciliation no one hear has ever mentioned--it must be shown to save a specified number of dollars over 10 years to qualify.

Sue

Clarice,

That's assuming they care what the requirements on reconciliation are. I don't believe they do and that is why they are threatening us with Sheriff Biden if the parliamentarian says it can't be done.

Sue

Drudge is linking to a radaronline article saying Justice Roberts is contemplating stepping down for personal reasons. Oh sweet heavens. If true, we are truly screwed.

Clarice

Read the next line at Drudge--IT IS NOT TRUE.

Thomas Collins

Hopefully that court source Drudge mentions is correct (the source says it is not happening).

Clarice

Sue, I trust Heritage's account. I do not believe this is going thru. I believe we are seeing the end kabuki fantasy of a seriously disturbed man who shucked and jived himself into a position he was unsuited for and had a fantastical dream of reshaping America which is now coming apart at the seams, taking down his party and its equally crazy Speaker with him.

Sue

Now Drudge has removed it.

Sue

No they haven't removed it, just moved it. Anyway, now it says it might not be true.

Motumba

Where's there's smoke.

A wise Latina will be the next Chief Justice.

The balance will shift left for decades.

narciso

Why would Radar get that tip, and not a legal or policy blog, they're another leftwing gossip rag founded by Tina Brown

Thomas Collins

Clarice, I'm going with Andy McCarthy over Heritage. There will be enormous pressure on House Dems to vote for this. I understand the points being raised concerning the technical aspects of budget reconciliation; however, I think the successful kabuki in this case will be hoking up a reconcilation measure that the CBO will sign off on.

centralcal

Several places are saying that reconciliation is just a ruse, a red herring.

i.e., Contentions Blog (Jen Rubin) LUN

Jack is Back!

In regards to nullifying, repealing or amending Obamacare once it passes, I don't think it matters. Once this Obamanation of legislation should pass (and I still think they don't have the votes) there will be a constitutional crisis unlike any we have ever seen. Remember we are 3 equal branches of government and I think there are significant extra-judicial issues in all these bills (i.e compelling purchase of insurance, criminality of refusing, etc.). Then again, should the house pass the Senate bill, it would have to do it without any changes, edits or additions to avoid conference. They would also have to trust the Senate to pass a reconciled bill that would include all the bells and whistles in the existing house bill but not in the Senate bill. Now we are talking clean up the mess in all the aisles. I just don't see this happening especially with the anger being generated. They are giving us two weeks to organize and optimize that anger toward them like they have never seen.

We don't make enough pitchforks for all the people who will want them. Ditto railroad ties, barrels of tar and crate of feathers.

Clarice

Be my guest, tc. Remember Andy assured us all Fitzgerald was no fanatic, but rather a fair prosecutor.

Thomas Collins

If recon is a ruse, as mentioned above, we still get a monstrosity if the House passes it.

Clarice

Aside from the timing and double cross possibilities, remember THERE STILL IS NO WRITTEN RECONCILIATION BILL. WHAT DOES THAT TELL A REASONABLE PERSON?

pagar

"I think the courts, and the Supreme Court, will hold that the new federal law pre-empts all state laws in this field."

My guess is that the Feds will claim no American citizen has standing to challenge an All knowing federal mandate. Haven't we been thru this before with the birth certificate stuff. There is no way Obama is going to let pesky little state laws overrule him, when he had to throw out the US Constitution to get it passed.

Clarice

Again, tc..what Heritage says (and I think they are right) is:
(1) Nancy does not have the votes and in fact is bleeding votes.
(2) There is no recon bill because to pass it needs to contain provisions which will make it ineligible for the recon procedure.

(3)In effect, Obama and Nancy are trying to pull off the bluff of bluffs.

Jane

Several places are saying that reconciliation is just a ruse, a red herring.

If you think of the entire history of this bill we have seen the exact same thing over and over: "the bill will be passed by Feb", "The bill we be passed by March", "the bill will be passed by Easter, summer vacation, Thanksgiving, Christmas, blah blah blah." "WE have the votes" , "We have the votes", "WE HAVE THE VOTES!"

I'm not one to underestimate Nancy Pelosi, but if she had the votes it would be a done deal. So today it is not passing.

Danube of Thought

"...it is pretty clear from the text and history of the Civil War Amendments that the Privileges and Immunities Clause is the appropriate provision under which to analyze the constitutionality of the Chicago gun law."

I assume that Scalia is simply deferring to precedent. There's no doubt in my mind that, if one could go back and do it over, the P and I clause would be the more appropriate basis for incorporation (assuming that any basis was appropriate), but that bell can't be undone. The due process clause has been used in every instance of incorporation, so it seems to follow that if it was good for any of the other amendments it's good for the Second as well.

Danube of Thought

"My guess is that the Feds will claim no American citizen has standing..."

There is a much clearer case for standing to attack the healthcare nightmare, but I still think the attacks will fail because of the Commerce Clause and federal pre-emption.

MayBee

THERE STILL IS NO WRITTEN RECONCILIATION BILL. WHAT DOES THAT TELL A REASONABLE PERSON?

Bingo, Clarice.
And the one Obama is writing will make the bill more expensive and (supposedly,) more Republican. Who is going to promise to vote for that?

Clarice

Jsne, I'm with you. Let's challenge the two of them to a poker match.

Danube of Thought

"(2) There is no recon bill because to pass it needs to contain provisions which will make it ineligible for the recon procedure."

And if Conrad is correct, no such bill can be voted on until after the current senate bill is passed.

Appalled

Listened to the Democratic whip (Clyburn)on the radio this morning (XM's POTUS network.) He indicated the House will not be voting on the Senate bill -- it will be a different piece of legislation (though it still will not contain the Stupak abortion langauge.)

I agree that the action is in the House of Representatives, not the Senate, but to get the bill to pass the House, they may end up making reconciliation very difficult.

Pelosi is better at playing this game than either Obama or Reid, so this is going to be real interesting. I don't think she really has the votes. Her though (and Obama's) may be that, if he keeps persuing this, he mobilizes his base for the next election, minimizing Congressional losses, without losing independents that are lost already. Maybe it's not the worst strategy, though I am not aware of it ever working, or even being tried.

If they are trying a new bill, I don't see how this gets done in two weeks, like the WH press flack is demanding.

narciso

They're running out of nails for the Norwegian
Blue, they don't have the votes

pagar

I don't have the faintest idea where to look but I seem to remember that when there was discussion about the death panels that there were sentences that said --no appeals would be allowed. I'd be willing to bet that somewhere in the bill which hasn't been written yet, there are words that say no one can op out.

Jsne

Jsne, I'm with you. Let's challenge the two of them to a poker match.

Okay, but first let me change my name....

Stephanie

Opt out?

When do we start construction on the 57 Chevy floatboat to the Bahamas?

Danube of Thought

Thanks for the Heritage link,Clarice--that's the most encouraging thing I've read in a long time.

What, if any, is the drop-dead date for this thing? By that I mean a date by which, if it has not passed, it is absolutely impossible (because of budget timing, for example).

Jane

I think the drop dead date is in April.

MayBee

may be that, if he keeps persuing this, he mobilizes his base for the next election, minimizing Congressional losses

It depends who his base is. The netroots want public option, so they are upset he's unwilling to throw it in the mix if he's willing to do reconciliation.

Jane

OT: But Fox has a headline that says: MA lawmakers asked to ban circumcision.

What is this world (state) coming to?

Appalled

MayBee:

The argument from Rep. Clyburn this morning was, essentially, no worries aout the public option. Congress could always just "compromise" now and add that later.

(Boy, that's just the message I want to send to a Blue Dog.)

Clarice

DoT the drop dead date is the end of this Session. That date usually is around April1.

Porchlight

I think the drop dead date is in April.

But theoretically the House could still pass the Senate bill - without any reconciliation - after April, correct? Or does the drop-dead date apply regardless of whether reconciliation is attempted?

Pofarmer

There is no way Obama is going to let pesky little state laws overrule him, when he had to throw out the US Constitution to get it passed.

So, when does the secession talk start? If there were ever a reason, this would have to be it. Leave em to stew in their own juices.

Porchlight

And if Conrad is correct, no such bill can be voted on until after the current senate bill is passed.

Yes - my understanding of Conrad's position is that the House must pass the Senate bill first to meet procedure so that the Senate has something to "reconcile."

Maybe Clyburn is talking about a completely different/new bill, to be passed from scratch beginning with the House?

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