Crime And Thought Punishment

Shikha Dalmia of Forbes and Reason contemplates a vast campaign of civil disobedience in defiance of the health care mandate:

Any strategy of nonviolent civil resistance has to first make a good faith effort to achieve its end through the available political and legal means. But there comes a time when changing the law requires acts of conscience.

For opponents of ObamaCare that time is Dec. 31, 2013. That's when the individual mandate will go into effect. If ObamaCare hasn't been repealed by Congress or nullified in court by then, its opponents would be justified in urging Americans to refuse to buy coverage or pay fines and dare authorities to come after them.

By some estimates, Uncle Sam will need to hire an additional 17,000 IRS agents or so just to enforce the coverage mandate. But even if a few million Americans simultaneously refuse to abide by it, they could easily overwhelm the system.

Well, it depends on the meaning of "overwhelm" - the legislation includes a pre-emptive retreat in the clause related to enforcement of the mandate.  This is from page 131 of the 906 page .pdf Senate bill:

‘‘(g) ADMINISTRATION AND PROCEDURE.—
‘‘(1) IN GENERAL.—The penalty provided by this section shall be paid upon notice and demand by the Secretary, and except as provided in paragraph (2), shall be assessed and collected in the same manner as an assessable penalty under subchapter B of chapter 68 [link to Tax Code].

‘‘(2) SPECIAL RULES.—Notwithstanding any other provision of law—

‘‘(A) WAIVER OF CRIMINAL PENALTIES.—In the case of any failure by a taxpayer to timely pay any penalty imposed by this section, such taxpayer shall not be subject to any criminal prosecution or penalty with respect to such failure.

‘‘(B) LIMITATIONS ON LIENS AND LEVIES.—The Secretary shall not—
‘(i) file notice of lien with respect to any property of a taxpayer by reason of any failure to pay the penalty imposed by this section, or ‘‘(ii) levy on any such property with respect to such failure.’’.

And from Subchapter B of Chapter 68 of the Tax Code we glean this:

Sec. 6671. Rules for application of assessable penalties

(a) Penalty assessed as tax

The penalties and liabilities provided by this subchapter shall be paid upon notice and demand by the Secretary, and shall be assessed and collected in the same manner as taxes.

Now, I am not smart enough to be a Democrat and I am surely not smart enough to be a Democratic Congressperson, but I am having a hard time reading Section 2, where criminal penalties and liens are waived, as a commitment to tough enforcement. [I am a day late on this - apparently, Dems are delighted that no actual enforcement can take place:

A September letter from a top tax official had said failure to pay the fines could ultimately lead to the most severe penalty under federal law for tax evasion, a $100,000 fine and five years in jail.

Now Democrats are touting protections they have added to limit the reach of the tax man. “The bill specifically prohibits the IRS from confiscating taxpayer assets, from using liens or levies, or imposing criminal penalties of any kind — including jail time — because of a lack of health care coverage,” Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s office said in a statement.]

Which is understandable - we know lots of Democrats, such as Tim Geithner, Tom Daschle and Charles Rangel, who are confused by the concept of taxes and won't be troubling themselves with this latest wrinkle in the tax code.  And no one really expects Eric Holder to be arresting a bunch of confused Dems who have more important things to do than comply with a new boatload of Federal paperwork requirements.  So it was nice of Congress to make a nod toward equal treatment and admit that they won't be coming hard after anyone else who ignores this law, either.

Presumably a new Congress could amend the enforcement provisions if non-compliance becomes a problem.  Of course, if non-compliance is a problem Congress might want to reflect on the disease, rather than the symptoms.

BONUS PUZZLE FOR THE ACCOUNTANTS AND TAX LAWYERS:  Imagine some poor chump owes $6,000 in regular Federal income taxes and a $750 penalty for non-compliance with the mandate.  He mails in a return with a check for $6,000 marked as "Full payment for taxes owed/No penalty".

Can the Feds deem his payment to be $750 for the mandate penalty and $5,250 for his taxes, leaving him short (and subject to liens) on $750 for his taxes?

Obviously, this would let them sidestep the "No Enforcement" clause cited above.  The result would be non-enforcement for people who don't owe other taxes; I will guess there are more Dems than Reps in that group.

THE OLDIES ARE STILL THE GOODIES:  Bill O'Reilly and Congressman Anthony Weiner reprise the immortal "Who's On First" routine.  The gist:

Weiner: The IRS does not collect the fine.

O'Reilly:  So who collects the fine?

Weiner: That's right.

What's scary is that Weiner claims O'Reilly is making stuff up; Weiner himself is either misinformed or lying.

HMM:  Wage garnishment is also known as a wage levy, but I have the notion that it might well be different from a levy on property (such as a bank account), which means that a levy on wages would be allowed under ObamaCare.

Comments

[Steve C.]

Why wouldn't they?

[Jack is Back!]

I don't know about the "un-silenced majority" starting to act like Ganhdi or MLK or Cal students but it might have to happen. People talked about not filling out the census correctly or completely or subbing American for race but I'll bet its only a few hundred or a few thousand that actually do it. The rules for radicals are that - rules for left-wing anarchic radicals, not right-thinking folks that work hard, pay taxes, go to church and raise families.

But then even McConnell thinks that repeal or nullification is a long shot. So, perhaps civil disobedience is the way to go. Relying on the Supremes seems distant also. The Won is still singing the HCR tune instead of JOBS even after it passed in order to ensure his legacy is intact.

[Porchlight]

The problem with this particular form of civil disobedience is that they're already expecting millions not to comply with the individual mandates. They're also expecting small businesses to dump employee insurance and pay the fine.

Then when premiums rise because of pre-existing conditions, which aren't offset by enough healthy people and employers paying in, the insurance companies begin to go broke and there will be howls for the government to step in and "do something."

Result: single payer.

That's why the penalty for individuals and employers is so low compared to the inevitable high cost of guaranteed issue. The system becomes overwhelmed much more quickly.

[narciso]

Speaking of which, on a unrelated note, isn't this what we use to call 'obstruction of justice' in the LUN

[Ignatz]

Not only is it obstruction narciso it probably constitutes an illegal "straw purchase" which is a person purportedly buying a gun for himself when in fact it is for another. It's usually only prosecuted if the real purchaser was prohibited from buying one.

[Lord Whorfin says Obama sucks]

re:
Can the Feds deem his payment to be $750 for the mandate penalty and $5,250 for his taxes, leaving him short (and subject to liens) on $750 for his taxes?

Short answer- yes.
Long answer- hell yes!

This answer brought to you by by Planet Ten's best CPA

[Porchlight]

Looks like the reconciliation bill is going back to the House:

GOP Forces New House Vote on Fixes to Health Bill

WASHINGTON — With the Senate working through an all-night session on a package of changes to the Democrats’ sweeping health care legislation, Republicans early Thursday morning identified parliamentary problems with at least two provisions that will require the measure to be sent back to the House for yet another vote, once the Senate adopts it.

Estimated week's delay but bill is expected to pass the House w/o problems.

Wasn't there someting about how all the budget stuff had to be done by April 1?

[Captain Hate]

O/T I'm glad that Google has more nads in dealing with Chinese censorship than the quislings in the State Dept, and everywhere else in the Federal gvt for that matter. Granted it took discovering the ChiComs had hacked into their software and certain Google execs were strongly in favor of continuing the suppression of information flow, but hat's off at least to Sergey Brin for doing the right thing.

[MjM]

Tom, your bonus puzzle poses a very interesting question. But I don't believe a determination of the answer can be made, given the existing legislation. Even NY Rep. Weiner can't say.

See, Pelosi just worded her statement wrong. She meant to say, "We have to pass the bill now in order to add to it later on."

Here's how the enforcement will eventually be done: Garnishment.

[Old Lurker]

Porch is right. They don't care - don't even want - the new system to work. They want it to fail ASAP so they have to fix it with Single Payer, paid for with a VAT.

Count on it.

[BumperStickerist]

there are a couple of "fun" interpretations

Now that ObamaCare is the Law of the Land - and the goal of a healthy population well-served by its healthcare providers, et cetera -

-- will skepticism of the efficacy of vaccinations be considered a crime against the state? Will the anti-vax'ers be considered public health terrorists?

-- will programs like Michelle's "Urban Health Initiative" circa 2008 become standard practice throughout all urban areas? Is that a good thing?

-- who in the urban community will counter the misinformation given by local community leaders about US healthcare practices?

If .... say ... a Muslim Cleric is speaking against our healthcare system and citing bad statistics and mis -information, will that be tolerated as "free speech" or that cleric be punished as public health menace?

-- Will collecting information about gun ownership, parental drinking and health habits, and other family information be part of a ObamaCare requirement for reimbursing pediatricians? They don't have to collect that data - but if they don't, they won't get paid.

-- Given the changing tides of healthcare "science" -

salt is always bad - recent studies suggest not so much

alcohol is a bad - moderate intake is good

body/mass index is accurate - now, not so much

... to what extent will ObamaCare punish people for "bad science" and/or repay them for actions taken off of bad information.

I see this in the future:

ObamaCare Lied, People Die(te)d

-

[bgates]

Wasn't there someting about how all the budget stuff had to be done by April 1?

They can just deem March to have 45 days.

Porchlight's 9:02 is sadly convincing.

[Captain Hate]

One of the nation's largest labor unions, the Service Employees International Union (SEIU), is promoting a plan that will centralize all retirement plans for American workers, including private 401(k) plans, under one new "retirement system" for the United States.

I feel really good about having put money away for myself because I knew SS was not to be trusted, only to be told it doesn't matter because SS2 will take it.

[narciso]

btw, another ' unexpected drop in durable goods' orders, what was it, oija board, or
chicken entrails

[dishnetwork]

Now everyone should understand O's struggle. We must rise against this oppression, but that's how it was designed, like Kennedy.

Maybe we should rise against those who won't pay minimum wage, insurance, etc.

O is a waste, just a son of an informant and wants to hear everyone say he's Presidents again cause he's smart.

[bgates]

Here's a note from Memeorandum:

Texas Attorney General, who's one of a dozen suing to overturn health reform law, backed insurance mandate at home.

Leaving aside the specifics of that mandate - it applies only to children of divorced parents - they've only begun to uncover the hypocrisy.

For instance, I happen to know that the Texas AG opposes holding national elections for the Texas state legislature, yet he's in favor of allowing Texans to vote for those offices at home.

[Pagar]

"Here's how the enforcement will eventually be done: Garnishment."

Article. The original article was from the WSJ.

"A little–noticed law could soon result in smaller Social Security checks for hundreds of thousands of the elderly and disabled who owe the U.S. money from defaulted loans and other debts more than a decade old."

"Social Security benefits are off–limits to creditors, such as credit–card companies and banks. But the U.S. can collect debts to federal agencies by "offsetting," or withholding Social Security and disability payments".

They have been planning this one for a while.

[Ignatz]

--a plan that will centralize all retirement plans for American workers, including private 401(k) plans, under one new "retirement system" for the United States.--

If these morons think they can do to us what the Kirchners are doing to Argentina and what Chavez did to Venezuela without a revolution they're going to have a rude awakening.
If Barry and the Dems are still in power come Jan 2013 I think the Republicans should just step out of the way and let the present generation of Dems and progs try and close the deal on what they and the previous generation started in the sixties.
The faster they go the less chance of the boiling frog syndrome and the sooner we can remove from the body politic those who would subsume the body politic to the state.

[Ranger]

Imagine some poor chump owes $6,000 in regular Federal income taxes and a $750 penalty for non-compliance with the mandate. He mails in a return with a check for $6,000 marked as "Full payment for taxes owed/No penalty".

Can the Feds deem his payment to be $750 for the mandate penalty and $5,250 for his taxes, leaving him short (and subject to liens) on $750 for his taxes?

This is why tax revolts only work if they are total, not partial. If 20 million American's simply refused to pay any taxes in 2013, that might force the government to scrub the mandate. The Feds don't have the time, people, or enough courtrooms to force that many people to comply. Our tax system is based on voluntary compliance (as all the Dems' current cabinet members proves), using it to enforce law as unpopular as Obamacare, could completely wreck the system and now just how vulnerable it is.

[Jane]

If Barry and the Dems are still in power come Jan 2013

My guess is most of us will be on the island at that point. WE can only fight so long.

[Pagar]

"If these morons think they can do to us what the Kirchners are doing to Argentina and what Chavez did to Venezuela without a revolution they're going to have a rude awakening."

My guess is they think they are smarter than Castro and Chavez. Castro had to kill citizens in the streets to get his way, the Democrats have taken over 48% of the US already.

[Janet]

LUN Just your average Islamic law scholar?

UN.BE.LIEVABLE

[Jim Ryan]

Tom: Weiner himself is either misinformed or lying.

No he's not. I believe the bill does say that the World Health Organization will indeed collect the fine.

[Danube of Thought]

Can the Feds deem his payment to be $750 for the mandate penalty and $5,250 for his taxes, leaving him short (and subject to liens) on $750 for his taxes?

Under the laws regarding commercial paper, the wording on the check would be conclusive if the payee cashed it--but, as I recall, only if there were a bona fide dispute about the $750 debt. God knows how it would turn out in this scenario, but imagine the IRS trying to administer and litigate it.

I think Porchlight's analysis as spot-on concerning what is going to happen initially. But as for what happens when the government decides to do something in response to the howls, I'm not at all sure the result is single-payer: it depends on who's running the government at the time. One response could be to scrap this entire system, which will still be in its infancy, and institute sensible, market-based reforms.

In short, when the Democrats' Dream System is shown to be a flustercuck, I don't think there's going to be a huge demand for more Democratic fixes.

[Rob Crawford]

Captain Hate -- where'd that bit about the SEIU wanting to steal my retirement savings come from?

[narciso]

Well there's that aspect, he was also the proxy for the Rashid Ali coup in Iraq, but it's a hotel, we can't build on a hotel now

[Pofarmer]

eople talked about not filling out the census correctly or completely or subbing American for race but I'll bet its only a few hundred or a few thousand that actually do it.

Add one, it's more widespread than you think.

Also, I fearlessly predict another increase in "sporting goods" sales. I'm going to add to that category today.

[Rob Crawford]

Also, I fearlessly predict another increase in "sporting goods" sales. I'm going to add to that category today.

I told a reloader friend to hurry up with his primer order, because the next wave of sales is gonna make the 2008-2009 wave look puny.

I'm considering a new purchase for summer, as well.

[Pagar]

SEIU wants your retirement Money.

[mefolkes]

Off topic. I registered at NPR's discussion forum after I saw some very nasty comments about Sarah Palin and her new show on Discovery. I specifically responded to a moron's assertion that Palin had said that she could see Russia from her residence. In careful, non-vulgar words, I explained that Palin had said, referring to Big and Little Diomede Islands, that part of Russia could be seen from part of Alaska, and that what was "quoted" was really a line from Tina Fey on SNL. I did indulge myself in a snide finish, saying that the previous poster would be well advised to do careful research before posting again. Now I discover that the NPR forum moderator has deleted my comment because it was not conducive to civil discussion. Meanwhile, slanderous and vicious posts by ignorant leftists are left for all to see. GRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!

[Ranger]

SEIU wants your retirement Money.

These people really do want to see blood in the streets. Taking 401(k) so they can rescue the unions' bankrupt pension plans will cause a revolution. Combine that with pushing Amnesty though in this economic evironment and you have a merger of working class and middle class against the elite like we haven't seen since TR was president.

[Old Lurker]

Mel has the file on the 401(K) takeover talk. We've been talking about it here since last year when the House started having hearings on the idea. What started out as an idea from one whacky lady but now by the unions per the above. "Right...that could never happen here"...can no longer be dismissed with any certainty.

[Old Lurker]

Also CBO confirms today that SS goes negative this year, not five years hence as previously projected.

[mefolkes]

For those wanting to see the NPR forum I mentioned, just do a search there for Discovery Channel or Palin. I'm not sure how to do the LUN. Be sure to click on the button for all comments. There were fifty a moment ago. A fellow came on just after my post with a snide offer to change "Palin's" words to house instead of residence, completely missing the point that it was Tina Fey's words being misattributed to Palin.

[scott]

Looks like Senate republicans have forced the reconciliation bill back to the house.

As it stands, the obamacare law makes no sense. I think it would have to be repealed without the fixes and they're not law.... yet.

Keep hope alive. We'll see what actually passes into law.

[Danube of Thought]

It appears from this by Stephen Moore that a single chamber of the congress--viz., the house in 2011--can defund the newly created Obamacare agencies. Wouldn't that be fun?

[Ranger]

Meanwhile, slanderous and vicious posts by ignorant leftists are left for all to see. GRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!

Posted by: mefolkes | March 25, 2010 at 10:50 AM

Repost the comment without the last remarks and see if they let it fly. If not, make a copy of examples of posts other made which were very negative, then e-mail NPR with the negative lefty comments and your two comments and ask if only people from the left are welcome in the NPR community, or are people from the left the only ones who can be nasty. Like Alinsky says, make them live up to their own standards.

[Jane]

Pagar,

That is frightening.

[mefolkes]

Ranger, I'll be doing that very thing a bit later. I would recommend that others take a look at the forum. I sent Sarap2p, glasater and Clarice the page link if they care to properly post the link here. That isn't the first time I've run into biased moderators. Even at Discovery Channel, animal rightists were allowed to call participants in The Alaska Experiment and commenters who were hunters "murderers" and "environmental rapists", but our measured responses were often deleted.

[Danube of Thought]

Then there's this, in Article1, Section 9:

No capitation, or other direct, tax shall be laid, unless in proportion to the census or enumeration herein before directed to be taken.

As I understand it, direct taxes are those imposed on an individual, as distinct from on an event (e.g., a sales tax or inheritance tax). The income tax is excepted by the Sixteenth Amendment. How does the "fine" for not buying insurance get around this Article?

[Porchlight]

mefolkes,

How infuriating. I'm sorry that happened, but I applaud you for trying. I'd be interested to hear what happens if you follow Ranger's suggestion.

[Captain Hate]

Captain Hate -- where'd that bit about the SEIU wanting to steal my retirement savings come from?

Rob that was a copy/paste from the Headline Comments thread at AoS that had this tinyurl attached: http://tinyurl.com/yloron3

[bgates]

it was Tina Fey's words being misattributed to Palin

I get the feeling that there are a lot of Democrats who hate Reagan primarily for helping Patrick Swayze rob banks.

[narciso]

This is the forum, mentioned, in the LUN. The posters seem professionally dumb enough to
be Axelturfers

[peter]

Ezra Klein, the blogger whom Tom Maguire has ridiculed in the past, wants to know if Obamacare comports with Sharia- h/t Tiger Hawk.

Good question. I assume it does since Obama signed it.

[mefolkes]

Narciso, thanks a bunch. I've got a friend in Alaska who posted on Facebook that she was boycotting Discovery Channel because of "that crazy ho". I haven't a clue how a gal originally from good old Lubbock, Texas wound up that hateful toward unpretentious country girls. But my friend narrowly escaped death at the hands of her ex-husband and it is possible that he claimed to be a Republican. Nasty story, by the way. He beat her senseless, then put her into a modified king crab trap. When she hit the water, she revived and swam to shore. Fortunately he was an incompetent thug.

[Captain Hate]

LUN for Roger Simon's open letter to Steny Hoyer. I admire articulate beatdowns; if Steny reads it he'd better be wearing an adult diaper.

[sylvia]

I think they need to make it a $750 tax increase, and then rebate for people who attach health insurance receitps, like you would for home repairs or such. I think that is what they are going to do later, in a couple years, when the dust dies down. It's the only consti way. But right now, they don't want to say the words "tax increase".

[Ignatz]

--How does the "fine" for not buying insurance get around this Article?--

Presumably they would argue that the "event" would be buying or not buying insurance.
It does seem a little odd that a person can be taxed for not doing something.
Why can't we tax people for not having any income or levy the firearms excise tax on those people who refuse to buy guns?

[sylvia]

And by the way, if they go the tax increase way, they won't need more IRS agents.

[narciso]

Isn't it wonderful what you get with our tax dollars at work, mefolkes, this is what Mark Lloyd wants more of btw, as does this character in the LUN

[Captain Hate]

mefolkes, her ex sounds like a Kennedy to me.

[sylvia]

Well how do they do it in Mass now? Is is taxed or fined or what? That's probably what they are going to do nationally, as they seem to be copying it.

[Rick Ballard]

I'm trying to think of what type of threat could ever get me to tune to National Progressive Radicalism. It would have to involve a lot of immediate pain.

Also CBO confirms today that SS goes negative this year, not five years hence as previously projected.

OL,

What a shocker. It's as if their might have been an error in their base assumptions. Who could ever have guessed?

I'd really like to see the split between "caused by blown demographic projections" and "blown by decline in contributions due to Democrat Job Killers".

[bgates]

What a shocker.

Unexpected.

mefolkes, I added a comment to the NPR thread, and cited a few of the others for abuse (like the guy who said it was "unfortunate" that Palin would probably not "break her leg and die of exposure).

[Jane]

I'm trying to think of what type of threat could ever get me to tune to National Progressive Radicalism.

That's another thing that needs to be defunded.

[Captain Hate]

What a shocker. It's as if their might have been an error in their base assumptions. Who could ever have guessed?

Bush for one; for which he was roundly ridiculed by the usual dumbass suspects.

[mefolkes]

CH, yes, except that he couldn't afford an Oldsmobile and had to settle for a crab trap instead.

One of the posters at the NPR thread insisted that we were responsible for "a senator" being spat upon and another one called "a baby killer". The dunces don't even know the difference between a Representative and a Senator.

[Barbara]

I posted this on the wrong thread.......

Dare I say that I am not terribly concerned about these reports of people acting out in response to the tyrannical actions of our government this past weekend? What did they expect? Apparently, the progs and the msm thought that the public would be too stunned to react to this dismantling of yet another industry and the subsequent intrusion of government into their lives.

Frankly, I would be more concerned if people didn't express themselves - overtly - as the government continues to encroach on our liberty. So far, people have been mild mannered and respectful in expressing their outrage, but as the country continues to collapse due to the deliberate actions of the administration and the progressives in congress, the tenor of that response is bound to change.

Obviously, these politicians don't read history. To be sure, they don't take our history seriously. If there can be anything good that has come out of all this, it will be the reawakening of Americans to what is precious in this country, why our founders fought so hard for it and took such great pains to create our Constitution, and why our ancestors put their lives on the line to preserve it. It's our turn now.

[Neo]

SEC. 203. COMMISSIONED CORPS AND READY RESERVE CORPS.

(a) ESTABLISHMENT.—

(1) IN GENERAL.—There shall be in the Service a commissioned Regular Corps and a Ready Reserve Corps for service in time of national emergency.

(2) REQUIREMENT.—All commissioned officers shall be citizens of the United States and shall be appointed without regard to the civil-service laws and compensated without regard to the Classification Act of 1923, as amended.

Does this make it possible for a "national emergency" to turned into a "crony jobs" program with uncontrolled wages ?

[Danube of Thought]

Seems to me that if it is a tax at all, it has to be viewed as a capitation. Can't be an income tax, because it will be imposed on people who are not required to pay income tax or even to file a return. Article 1 Section 9 does not apply to the Massachusetts Legislature.

[mefolkes]

Bgates, yes, I can't fathom how that could be considered conducive to civil discourse, while mine was apparently incendiary. Thanks for pitching in.

[Danube of Thought]

And by the way, if they go the tax increase way, they won't need more IRS agents.

Of course they will. The need for the additional agents arises out of the anticipated increase in delinquents, regardless how the alleged indebtedness is characterized.

[sylvia]

"Can't be an income tax, because it will be imposed on people who are not required to pay income tax or even to file a return."

Yes interesting point. How many people do not pay taxes at all? I think that if they go the tax increase route, they are planning on giving up tax dodgers. It would be hard to pin them down anyway. So that's why not everyone will be covered.

[Danube of Thought]

That's probably what they are going to do nationally

Not unless they have a Democratic majority in the house and sixty Dems in the Senate. Those days are gone.

[mefolkes]

Brian, Narciso, did you notice that one of the leftist stooges at NPR used Dennis Miller's photo as his profile photo? Should we tell Dennis and watch the fur fly?

[sylvia]

"The need for the additional agents arises out of the anticipated increase in delinquents,"

85% have insurance through employers. A small percentage pay no taxes and are pretty much beyond IRS and health insurance reach. And might already get Medicare. So it will only be a small proportion that the IRS will have to go after.

[Patrick R. Sullivan]

Now I discover that the NPR forum moderator has deleted my comment because it was not conducive to civil discussion. Meanwhile, slanderous and vicious posts by ignorant leftists are left for all to see. GRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!

Welcome to Ann Coulter's world.

[Captain Hate]

Of course they will. The need for the additional agents arises out of the anticipated increase in delinquents, regardless how the alleged indebtedness is characterized.

The thought that was behind those words and the effort to type them is like investing in a 401K after finding out it's going to SEIU

[mefolkes]

Patrick, don't get me started. If I didn't have my Susan, I'd love to be in Ann Coulter's world, as close as was possible. She never looks lovelier than when the venom is dripping from her fangs. Absolutely magnificent.

[narciso]

Actually that was a poster riffing on old Joe, so don't sound the alarm yet. That Human Events column on the cancelled event in Ottawa
was a hoot

[Porchlight]

Simon's letter is okay. He "unequivocally condemns" the threats of violence against Democrats. He doesn't speak about the lack of evidence for some of these claims. And he doesn't mention that the left is guilty of far worse even in recent days (bomb threats against Jim Bunning for example).
I like Roger, heck, I ended up at JOM via Roger's place > Flares. But it's kind of weak sauce on the whole, except for the part where he compares the Dems to totalitarians, which I liked.

[Danube of Thought]

VDH nails it, as usual:

"This week’s talking point is the sudden danger of new right-wing violence, and the inflammatory push-back against health care. I’m sorry, but all this concern is a day late and a dollar short. The subtext is really one of class — right-wing radio talk-show hosts, Glenn Beck idiots, and crass tea-party yokels are foaming at the mouth and dangerous to progressives. In contrast, write a book in which you muse about killing George Bush, and its Knopf imprint proves it is merely sophisticated literary speculation; do a docudrama about killing George Bush, and it will win a Toronto film prize for its artistic value rather than shock from the liberal community about over-the-top discourse."

[Danube of Thought]

How many people do not pay taxes at all?

Over 40%, and approaching 50%. The productive one-half of this country is carrying both halves.

There is a smaller perecentage that not only do not pay, but who aren't required to file at all, but it is not insignificant.

[Patrick R. Sullivan]

Anyone who clicked to watch O'Reilly and Anthony Weiner think Weiner is the kind of guy who'd be impressed by 'nonviolent civil resistance'?

I'd say Thomas Jefferson better understood the problem when assessing the benefits of Shay's Rebellion in 1787:

...what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

It is its natural manure."

[Danube of Thought]

So it will only be a small proportion that the IRS will have to go after.

Then tell us why they provide for 16,000 additional agents.

The percentage who get insurance from their employers (which I do not understand to be 85%) is about to decrease substantially, as the congress well knows and anticipates.

[Old Lurker]

True that almost 50% pay no income taxes. The 50% that do are very heavily weighted to the top 20% and top 10%, so the cuve is pretty ugly IMHO. It is clearly one reason we are so divided.

[Neo]

Repeal the “Big F**n Deal”

[Rick Ballard]

"But it's kind of weak sauce on the whole"

It's entirely consonant with the malleable principles (or complete lack thereof) of the writer. The time for "playing nice" has passed and the creation of the Obama Thug Corps by this bill indicates that he's on the Castro/Chavez/Mugabe road.

I want to see the enrollment oath for the Obama Thug Corps. If it does not clearly include protection and defense of the Constitution then it would be very wise to seriously consider all means of resistance to the scum enrolled.

[mefolkes]

Back in '72, at the McGovern rally at the mall on the main campus of the University of Minnesota, Vin Weber and I and all the officers of the U of M College Republicans, and several general members, counter-picketed. All of us were assaulted by the "peace protestors" in one form or another. I was spat upon, punched and kicked. I would love to see the leftists produce absolute proof of these charges they're making about tea partier/Republican violence.

[Rob Crawford]

I want to see the enrollment oath for the Obama Thug Corps.

"I swear allegiance to the Won, whoever the Party should name Him. To beat and to scream, to frame and to blame, as needed to Control the People."

[Patrick R. Sullivan]

Even more remarkable than the O'Reilly-Weiner clip is this defense of censorship by Susan G. Cole, in which she argues that Canada is more open to clashes of ideas than are its universities.

[Rob Crawford]

mefolkes -- the leftists will tell you that NO ONE spat on you. That no one spat on any returning Vietnam vets, either. You can produce affidavits to that effect, you can produce police reports, you could find the DNA of the spitter, heck YOU CAN FIND ADMISSIONS OF GUILT FROM THE PEOPLE WHO DID THE SPITTING.

The left does not operate on the basis of truth. They operate on the basis of Pravda -- what is useful to them is true, what is not is a lie.

[Pagar]

"If .... say ... a Muslim Cleric is speaking against our healthcare system "

Why would they speak out against it?

Article

"muslims-exempt-from-obamacare-because-it-violates-sharia-law."

"Apparently, this exemption will apply similarly to believers in Islam, which considers health insurance - and, for that matter, any form of risk insurance - to be haraam (forbidden)."

[Jane]

Hey DOT - have you got a link to that VDH piece. I'd like to read the whole thing. I looked at NRO but I didn't find it.

[Rob Crawford]

Jane, I have the VDH piece LUN.

[Danube of Thought]

Here are the percentages of the 2007 federal income tax paid by various percentiles of earners:

Top 1% 40%
Top 5% 60%
Top 10% 71%
Top 25% 82%
Top 50% 97%

And that was 2007--it has not got any less "progressive" since then.

One reason every tax cut is described as a "tax cut for the rich" is that if you want to leave more money in the private sector, there is no way to do it other than reducing taxes on "the rich." And of course the Bush tax cuts provided the most benefits for "the poor." Many people at the lowest end suddenly had no tax liability at all; those next up the ladder saw significant reductions.

It is alarming that the nation has let it come to this.

[Rob Crawford]

Unless you mean this VDH piece, also LUN:

Will the president react by picking his next fights more carefully, avoiding the sort of shady legislative dealings and us-vs.-them rhetoric that helped ram this bill through?

Or will the methods used to pass Obamacare, which many polls deemed unpopular leading up to this weekend’s vote, become the model formula for a new damn-the-torpedoes, full-speed-ahead progressive agenda?

[bgates]

VDH nails it

Partly. He loses it at the end, when he advises leftists to say,
“Please, let us avoid extremism and do not fall into the same trap as Baker, Chait, Keillor, Gore, Moore, or Range when they either expressed open hatred toward their president, or speculated about the assassination of their president, or compared their president to a fascist. We must disown such extremism, past and present."

I don't think it's necessarily "extremist" to express hatred of a President. I thought it was incorrect in the case of Bush because he wasn't doing much hateful (and even in the case of disastrous plans like amnesty I thought his heart was in the right place, his head was just up his ass), yet my feelings about Obama make Olbermann's feelings about Bush look like Paul's feelings about Christ.

As far as speculation about assassination, I think of Just War doctrine:
# the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;
# all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;
# there must be serious prospects of success;
# the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated

and I find that I am satisfied only that the first condition has been met. Furthermore I find it hard to imagine circumstances under which assassination would lead to a restoration of the Constitutional republic. I'm more sympathetic to the notion of violence in defense of self and property, but we're not even there yet.

Where he really loses me is the assertion that it's just as wrong to call Obama a fascist as it was to call Bush one. Obama's not a Nazi, true; I don't think he wants to send Republicans to death camps, and it's ironically difficult to imagine a Nazi who disliked Germans as much as Obama dislikes Americans. He is a totalitarian, though, and an enemy of liberty, and Bush just wasn't.

[narciso]

They've brought Tony Coelho, out of mothballs, to argue for healthcare

[Sue]

Muslims are exempt?

[mefolkes]

I love Victor Davis Hanson. I'm Norwegian, but I'll accept that magnificent Swedish farm boy. A day isn't complete without a dose of VD(H).

[Rob Crawford]

Partly. He loses it at the end, when he advises leftists to say...

Yes, he gives them a statement they'll cheerfully state, then just as cheerfully ignore. They demand an end to acrimony, then call us tea-bagging racist homophobic mouth-breathing illiterates.

(And when called on it, they respond "but YOU ARE!!!!")

[PDinDetroit]

Speaking of "Sporting Goods", my local Gun Shop (Double Action) has been so busy for the past couple months they considered opening a larger store in a previous SAMS Club Location. Many people are spending their tax refunds on firearms and ammo.

[Pagar]

"Muslims are exempt?"

Article

"Health insurance is haraam like other types of commercial insurance, because it is based on ambiguity, gambling and riba (usury). This is what is stated in fatwas by the senior scholars. See the answer to question no. 39474 and 4210."

Going with the original and the above link I'd guess they are.

[centralcal will not comply]

Looks like Cantor's office was shot at Monday night. Uh oh . . . there goes the media and the Liberal narrative.

[Porchlight]

Is VDH Swedish, mefolkes? Excellent. I am an "on" myself by birth - a reference any Minnesotan should get. :)

[mefolkes]

Yes, he hasn't said much about his maternal heritage, but it is Swedish on his paternal side. Norwegians and Swedes have traditionally had their disputes, but there are some Swedes I'm very pleased with and some Norwegians who disgust me.

[mefolkes]

How is the blessed event countdown? Keeping the blood pressure under control, even with all this political stress? I don't mind if you call me Mark in here. I'll refrain from using your name or nickname, Porchlight.

[Porchlight]

mefolkes,

Ah, Swedes vs. Norwegians, always a fun conversation starter in your neck of the woods. :)

Let's see, I think it's about 2 weeks to due date. I'm not counting anymore - just hoping for as much extra time as possible to get things in order. Plus I enjoy this stage of the game. It's all good and I'll be glad to have a distraction from this health care mess after so many months of near-obsession. Thanks for asking! I look forward to updating y'all with the good news.