Fauxmentum

Democratic leaders are trying to bluff their way to victory with the health care bill:

Democratic leaders scrambled Sunday to pull together enough support in the House for a make-or-break decision on health-care reform later this week, expressing optimism that a package will soon be signed into law by President Obama despite a lack of firm votes for passage.

The rosy predictions of success, combined with the difficult realities of mustering votes, underscore the gamble that the White House and congressional Democrats are poised to make in an attempt to push Obama's health-care plans across the finish line. The urgency of the effort illustrates growing agreement among Democratic leaders that passing the legislation is key to limiting damage to the party during this year's perilous midterm elections.

But House Minority Leader John A. Boehner (R-Ohio) pledged to do "everything we can to make it difficult for them, if not impossible, to pass the bill." He also joined other Republicans Sunday in warning that Democrats would pay for the legislation by losing even more seats than expected in November.

The most optimistic talk on Sunday came from the White House. Obama senior adviser David Axelrod predicted that Democrats "will have the votes to pass this," and press secretary Robert Gibbs declared that "this is the climactic week for health-care reform."

But Rep. James E. Clyburn (S.C.), the Democrats' chief head-counter in the House, cautioned that the party has not yet found the 216 votes needed to win approval of the health-care bill passed by the Senate in December.

"We don't have them as of this morning, but we've been working this thing all weekend," Clyburn said on NBC's "Meet the Press." "I'm also very confident that we'll get this done."

This is a transparent fauxmentum strategy.  The Dem leadership is looking at a small group of hard-core "No" votes, a large group of committed "Yes" votes (who will later feign surprise when the reconciliation effort falls apart in the Senate), and a swing group that does not want to vote on this at all because they don't want to lose their jobs, offend the leadership, or torpedo the Obama Administration.

The leadership plan is to pretend that any day now they will sound the whistle, announce that the train is leaving the station, and holler "All aboard that's getting aboard".  At the fateful moment of decision (they hope), enough of the swing bloc will opt for placating the leadership and promoting Team Obama, and the bill will pass.

Now, will they blow the whistle without the votes in hand?  I am sure they are bluffing, but I don't know what they will do if their bluff is called.  I Boldly Predict that this will be an interesting week.

Comments

[Jeff]

once they get close Nancy will call a vote and if it looks like a loser she will vote No herself so she can re-introduce it later ...

[Clarice]

Clyburn reportedly said 4 nos were voting yes..A call to one of those offices yielded a report that the congressman was still undecided.

The president invited naysayers Kucinich and Fudge to travel to Ohio with him on Air Force One today--does that sound like it's already wrapped up?Or is it fauxmentum?

[MarkO]

Why don't Republicans call a press conference today and say something like this?

"We want an up or down vote on this no later than tomorrow. The time for talking is over, including the President's endless lobbying. It is time to put up or shut up. There are serious isssue to be addressed in the country, jobs, endless spending, Iran's nuclear ambitions and more. We are wasting time with the endless campaign for something the public does not want."

[Tom Bowler]

The Wall Street Journal has a very timely article about some swing district polling results about to be released by Independent Women's Voice.

The survey consisted of 1,200 registered voters in 35 districts represented by members who could determine the outcome of the health-care debate. Twenty of those members voted for the House bill in November but now may be reconsidering. Fifteen voted against the bill but are under tremendous pressure to change their vote.

The survey shows astonishing intensity and sharp opposition to reform, far more than national polls reflect. For 82% of those surveyed, the heath-care bill is either the top or one of the top three issues for deciding whom to support for Congress next November. (That number goes to 88% among independent women.) Sixty percent want Congress to start from scratch on a bipartisan health-care reform proposal or stop working on it this year. Majorities say the legislation will make them and their loved ones (53%), the economy (54%) and the U.S. health-care system (55%) worse off—quite the trifecta.

That ought to give those swing district reps something to ponder. I especially like the part about the "astonishing intensity."

[Jim Ryan]

Fauxmentum

Nice, Tom. You are going to be robbed of that six ways to Sunday, you know.

[Appalled]

It'd be funny if Kucinich were the deciding "no" vote. He's the type would do the right thing by accident because the wrong thing was not wrong enough for him.

But I just can't see Kucinich "killing healthcare reform for a genration".

[Jim Ryan]

Even funnier to watch the moonbats go apoplectic with twee rage at Kucinich and try to purge him.

[Appalled]

JR:

They are sure capable of that kind of apoplectic purge. See Nader, Ralph.

[steve sturm]

The whole premise that the Dems will be punished this fall if they don't pass Obamacare is ludicrous. Dems in safe districts (i.e., Pelosi, Hoyer?) sure aren't going to lose their seats, at least not to a Republican... maybe to an even more liberal Democrat primary challenger, but not likely. And Dems in purple districts stand to lose more if they vote for Obamacare than if they vote no. Heck, they're the ones who may lose even if Obamacare passes but without their vote.

[Dave (in MA)]

Maybe the swing bunch can take a page out of Zero's playbook and vote Present.

[Dave (in MA)]

OT: LMAO

[Clarice]

Tom, I blogged your post at AT..

[Clarice]

Tom Bowler, that is, though there's a nod to TM's fauxmentum

[Tom Bowler]

Why thank you, Clarice. I appreciate that very much.

[Clarice]

If Obama was hoping to impress Fudge and Kucinish on the trip to Ohio, it might not have worked out as he planned..from NRO:
"President Barack Obama, joined by Ohio governor Ted Strickland, came to Ohio today to continue his permanent campaign on health-care legislation. His campaign events during the 2008 presidential race attracted crowds of thousands of Ohioans; this time, President Obama managed a crowd of about 200 people. With his negative approval numbers in Ohio (44 percent approve, 52 percent disapprove), it isn’t much of surprise that few showed up to hear him once again talk about health care. On health care, Ohioans disapprove of the job President Obama is doing (34 percent approve, 58 percent disapprove)."

[Danube of Thought]

I've seen Kucinich as a yes all along.

It's beyond my comprehesion how gutless most of these bastards are. How in the name of God can any of them be "undecided" at this point? Do they feel they just don't know enough about what's in it?

Or are they waiting for the right judgeship or ambassadorship to be promised in return for losing their seats?

[BumperStickerist]

Today's "astonished intensity" will be tomorrow's "unexpected passion" will be next Monday's "Angry White Males Prevent Health Reform"

[Clarice]

DoT in the D.C. Bermuda Triangle aka Capitol Hill, the wind can whip up to hurricane force or die off precipitously and a lot of people wait to see where it is on the day of a vote.

[hit and run]

TM:
This is a transparent fauxmentum strategy.


They told me that if Obama were elected president, government would become more transparent. And they were right!

[Danube of Thought]

What the hell, why not set a record for off-topicness. This is the new pastime for a bunch of my buddies and me, and I'm telling you it's a hoot.

[jean]

Why is it angry white males get all the credit when Dems fail?As an angry white female I want some credit too

[Danube of Thought]

Appears this deem-and-pass ruse isn't particularly unusual. Wonder what Professor McConnell would say?

[sbw]

DoT, Bowls was popular all over in Australia when I was an exchange student there back in the 1960s.

[Clarice]

I bet he'd say

[Clarice]

Hmmm..

I bet he'd say "smoking ban on domestic airline flights, an employment verification system meant to screen out illegal immigrants and a ban on using statistical sampling for the 2000 Census" were comparatively so inconsequential no one challenged the procedure before.

[narciso]

Apples and oranges, DOT, this one 'jumps the shark'

[Danube of Thought]

Clarice--we're on pins and needles!

[Clarice]

Typepad ate my paper, doT. But I had a spare in my book bag.

[Danube of Thought]

"Apples and oranges..."

Only if it's never been challenged, which I assume to be the case. But even if it hasn't, I should think the fact of its frequent prior use might make a challenge more difficult on the basis of established congressional usage.

But still: if I were a Dem I'd be very reluctant to run the risk of using this procedure, when there seems so little benefit to doing so.

[hit and run]

DoT:
Or are they waiting for the right judgeship or ambassadorship to be promised in return for losing their seats?

Huh,I figured you would have gravitated toward Obama offering a congressman http://www.philly.com/inquirer/home_top_stories/20100219_Sestak_says_federal_job_was_offered_to_quit_race.html>Secretary of the Navy.

[Danube of Thought]

The problem with the case McConnell relies on (Clinton v. City of New York) is that it didn't address the question of what constitutes "passage" of a bill by the legislature.

The Court in that case struck down the use of the line-item veto because it violated the "presentment" clause of Article 1; i.e. once a bill has been passed by both houses, it is presented to the president and he must either sign it or veto it--he can't sign anything except that which was presented to him.

I don't think that case would even come close to being a controlling precedent here. The Court might very well defer to the legislature's ability to establish its own rules as to what constitutes passage of a bill.

[Danube of Thought]

Yeah, Hit, but I figured the One would reserve such an exalted position for a senator. But at this point he might offer Kucinich Secretary of State if that's what it takes to pass this garbage.

[Appalled]

DoT:

I think Dennis (the Menace) would settle for "Secretary of Peace".

[sofa]

"All laws repugnant to the Constitution are null and void"
-SCOTUS, 1803, Marbury vs Madison

"All governments repugnant to the Constitution are null and void"
-sofa, 2010

Recent CNN Poll: 32% of the population believes in ALIEN ABDUCTIONS.
Recent Rasmussen Poll: 21% believe the government currently is operating with the consent of the governed.

Only the most delusional still believe in our our government.

Recent Rasmussen Poll: 63% of "Independents" think the federal government has become so large and powerful that it poses an immediate threat to the rights and freedoms of ordinary citizens.

People see the federal government as an "Immediate threat". Wow.

There was a Coup, and eventually people noticed!

"If we refuse to participate in our own oppression, we will be fined. If we refuse to pay the fine, we will be arrested. If we refuse to submit to arrest we will be killed."
-Mike Vanderboegh
http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2010/03/there-can-be-no-reconciliation-on.html

“A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government.”
-Edward Abbey

“The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don’t do anything about it”
- Albert Einstein

"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free."
-Ronald Reagan

"A fatal misconception is the belief that evil can be reasoned with."
-Unattributed

You can evade reality, but you cannot evade the consequences of evading reality."
- Ayn Rand

"Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government...
...
And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."
-T. Jefferson, et al, Declaration of Indepedence

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were ever our countrymen."
— Samuel Adams

Torches and pitchforks indeed.

[Clarice]

Drier says the Dems are 10 v0tes away and losing votes--Dems are peeling away.
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ODhlMjg0MTM3MWMwZDg5MTdmZWFiNjQ5NzM3YjlhYTg=>Nomentum

[Clarice]

The Hill reports there are definitely 37 Dems voting no--this is already the maximum number the Dems can losed and have the bill pass..and there are 70 undecideds.
http://thehill.com/homenews/house/85693-whip-watch-the-hills-survey-of-house-dems-positions-on-healthcare->Magic number

[Thomas Collins]

In Clarice's Nomentum link it is stated that:

"Dreier's office gives three “flavors” such a rule could take. It could simply self-enact the Senate bill and send it to the president to sign. It could deem the Senate bill passed upon passage of the reconciliation measure in the House. Or, in the most unprecedented option, it could deem the Senate bill passed in the House only when the Senate passes the House reconciliation measure."

It looks as if the ranking GOPer on the Rules Committee is as in the dark as we are as to which Slaughter Flavor will rule. I think flavors one and two would both be constitutional and meet the budget reconciliation rule if Obama signed the Cornhusker Kickback Bill into law before the House Fixes go to the Senate. Flavor three would seem to present both Constitutional and budget reconciliation rule problems.

[Molon Labe]

Boy Wonder today at yet another health care rally:

"How many people are getting insurance through their jobs right now, raise your hands, a lot of those folk , your employer, it's estimated would see premiums fall by as much as 3000 percent so they could give you a raise!"

Who still thinks this guy is intelligent?

Video LUN if you don't believe it.

[sbw]

"losed" -- I love it! A combination of lose and lost -- A phrasing that fairly tingles with excitement.

[Clarice]

NRO's Anderson:
"Early returns aren’t good for Obamacare supporters. The Hill currently lists only one of these 40 as leaning “yes” (Rep. Vic Snyder (D., Ark.)) and ten — five prior “yes” votes, five prior “no” votes — as leaning “no”: Reps. Michael Arcuri (D., N.Y.), Joe Donnelly (D., Ind.), Bark Stupak (D., Mich.), Marion Berry (D., Ark.), and Steve Driehaus (D., Ohio) among the prior “yes” votes; and Mike Ross (D., Ark.), John Adler (D., N.J.), John Barrow (D., Ga.), Larry Kissel (D., N.C.), and Michael McMahon (D., N.Y.) among the prior “no” votes.

Other Democrats are more likely to swing against Obamacare than for it. Beyond these 40, the Democrats are far more likely to lose additional members who voted “yes” last time than they are to convert additional members who previously voted “no.” Many other Democrats beyond our 40 still reside in highly contentious districts, and a couple even oppose Obamacare from the (even more extreme) left. The Hill currently lists four Democrats from outside of our 40, who voted “yes” last time, as currently leaning “no.” Conversely, of the 24 Democrats outside of our 40 who voted “no” last time, The Hill lists none as currently leaning “yes” and lists 22 as leaning “no.”

These 24 reps reside in solidly red districts. Of them, the one representing the least Republican-leaning district is Rep. Jason Altmire (D., Pa.), whose district has nevertheless supported Republican presidential candidates by an average of nine percentage points over the last three elections. Altmire also voted “yes” on Stupak, and he also represents a district where a whopping 60 percent of seniors are enrolled in Medicare Advantage — about three times the national average. Medicare Advantage benefits would be cut by $2,100 per enrollee per year under Obamacare (but, thanks to “Gator Aid,” not in South Florida). According to The Hill, Altmire is one of the two undecided members among these 24, along with Rep. Bart Gordon (D., Tenn.).

So, overall, how are President Obama and Speaker Pelosi doing? If members vote how The Hill projects they would as of now, the Democratic leadership would have a won-lost record of 1 and 10 so far among our 40 key members. They need to go 27 and 13 overall, so they would have to go 26 and 3 the rest of the way. But since four other members (from outside of our 40) who previously voted “yes” are also leaning “no,” the Democratic leadership would therefore have to go a perfect 29 and 0 among the rest of our 40 — and also convert one other member from The Hill’s “no” list back to “yes.”

Obamacare is on the ropes. Let’s keep contacting key Democratic members and deliver the knockout blow."

[Sue]

The Corner bunch are reporting that the bill has already been passed into the Rules Committee.

[centralcal]

"Obamacare is on the ropes."

Gawd, that is music to my ears!

[Clarice]

losed the lightening of their terrible swift sword.

or loosed..depending..LOL

[Clarice]

In Kaputt, Malaparte describes a horrible thing Tatars used to do to their prisoners. They'd tie each one to a corpse, arm to arm, leg to leg. mouth to mouth and in time the corpse would devour the captive. This is what Obama is doing to his party--tying it to the corpse of Obamacare.

[pagar]

" if I were a Dem I'd be very reluctant"
to be caught anywhere near a President who could only muster (a reported) 200 people for a healthcare rally on a fairly decent (weather wise) Monday in Ohio. Sarah Palin would have tens of thousands there, IMO.

[Jim Miller]

Good post, to which I added this tactical detail: A swing Democrat might be willing to give up his career if he was the 216th vote, but he probably wouldn't give up his career to be the 215th vote. And there must be more than one swing Democrat with that dilemma.

[Clarice]

From a local paper:

Rep. Chet Edwards, D-Waco, announced Monday afternoon that he will vote against the Senate’s version of health care insurance legislation when it comes up for a vote expected for late this week in the U.S. House.

Edwards voted against the House’s version of health care legislation in November, and some local Democrats and labor groups had expressed hope he would be more amenable to the less expensive and less expansive Senate version.

But Edwards made it clear in a conference call with reporters that his vote would not change. He also voted during a Monday afternoon committee meeting against a package of changes to the Senate bill that House Democrats are hoping to pass through a process called budget reconciliation. The reconciliation bill made it out of the House Budget Committee, however.

“I voted 'no' on the House health care reform bill and I will be a 'no-vote' on the Senate health care reform bill,” Edwards said. “At a time of massive federal deficits, I believe these bills could make those deficits worse.”

More specifically, Edwards said he was “especially disappointed” that a provision he wanted inserted in the bill that would have reduced the scale of the program if costs turned out higher than expected was not included.

“No one can predict with absolute certainty the new cost and cost savings of such a massive reform bill over 10 to 20 years,” Edwards said. “That is why I believed it was important to include a trigger to automatically reduce the cost of the bill if the projections turned out to be wrong, particularly since our nation is facing such serious federal deficits.”

[Extraneus]

Roger L. Simon:Is the Jewish love affair with the Democratic Party about to end?

Wouldn't that be a great thing, unlikely as it is.

[Clarice]

Both the ADL and AIPAC--which never criticize Dems--criticized Obama..It's getting there.

And they still haven't heard (I'm sure) of the Administration's efforts hin Obamacare and elsewhere to enshrine racial preferences in medical school, colleges and el-hi schools.

[Extraneus]

I have to agree that Obama is pretty dumb. His obvious objective is to remake the country according to a leftist wet dream, and take us down as many pegs as possible based on some weird grudge he's been harboring, so what's the point of alienating any group on foreign policy grounds, never mind one as important as Jews? Makes no sense at all.

Good thing for us that he's not smarter.

[narciso]

Of course, Joe Klein, is being Joe Klein, who else would volunteer. Meanwhile Mark Perry,
Hezbollah fan, is passing around this account
that the snub was due to not Biden's malapropism but Petraeua'a considered opinion

[Captain Hate]

On health care, Ohioans disapprove of the job President Obama is doing (34 percent approve, 58 percent disapprove).

While Mumbles Obaritone was dishing out crocks of sob stories about healthcare in Strongsville, Mrs Hate was getting her heart catheterized at the Cleveland Clinic (and getting a good bill of health; something I was somewhat sweating recently), one of the top facilities for doing that in the world. I have no confidence that she and the Amish family from Holmes county could count on that under Obarelosi death rationing.

[Extraneus]

Congratulations to the Hate family!

[Clarice]

Yes, indeed!

[PaulL]

Clarice,

The Hill says 37 Firm No, Leaning No, Likely No.

[Captain Hate]

Thanks, Ext; her father had a really bad ticker (she has outlived him many years over) as did her late sister so a good prognosis wasn't a foregone conclusion. Obviously I've been really sensitive to what Stanley Ann's petulant bastard has been shilling for lately.

[daddy]

More OT idiocy,

Alaska's current energy pipelines are running dry, and new nat gas/oil pipelines are being stymied with so many bureaucratic, legal and environmental study delays, that Alternative Energy modes are now on the State Legislative docket, all requesting ">http://www.adn.com/2010/03/14/1183482/legislators-hear-several-energy.html"> Taxpayer Funding.

Big wind farms are now proposed for local construction, along with "Three other proposed projects, all in early stages of development with no guarantees they will become operational, near the flanks of Mount Spurr, the active volcano 75 miles west of Anchorage."

Worst of the bunch suggestion is this: IMPORTING GAS TO ALASKA?

"One of the most outspoken members of that group has been Rep. Jay Ramras, a Republican from gas-starved Fairbanks who's running for lieutenant governor...he showered administration officials and their consultants with his displeasure, at several points accusing them of lacking integrity and of concocting an idea to import overseas gas to Alaska rather than develop and market the state's own reserves...the consultant who drew most of Ramras' ire, Kevin Harper of Kansas-based Black & Veatch Corp., said liquified natural gas might have to be imported to Southcentral Alaska to tide the region over until North Slope gas is available."

We are seriously out of our minds. This makes shipping coal to Newcastle look brilliant.

[Al Asad]

"Both the ADL and AIPAC -which never criticize Dems--criticized Obama..It's getting there.'

I guess they are worried Obama is serious about the peace process. Netanyahoo threw poo by announcing more settlements during veeps visit. "take that!!!"

As to desperate attempts to pass healthcare, it's the same scenario as when the Civil Rights Act was embroiled in Jim Crow's obstructionism.

Great Moves require courageous acts and will meet stiff opposition from regressives.

[Al Asad]

or should I say 'stiff-necked' opposition from regressives.

[Danube of Thought]

Hey, it's Al! Welcome back, buddy! Done any further research on how outsourcing made the transistor commercially viable? It's early in the year, but at this point that one seems to be the front-runner for a JOMitzer Prize.

[narciso]

Ah, Ramras, the gift that keeps on, something,
windmill farms near a volcano, he has the same
bullying style of that fellow who vludgeoned
our monitors on the Glenn Beck show last weak,
(I'm not insinuating anything else about him)

[Captain Hate]

As to desperate attempts to pass healthcare, it's the same scenario as when the Civil Rights Act was embroiled in Jim Crow's obstructionism.

LOL! Alex, give the Jew hating troll "Dumbass Historical Analogies" for a trillion.

[Danube of Thought]

"it's the same scenario as when the Civil Rights Act was embroiled in Jim Crow's obstructionism."

Well, yeah, except that it isn't. The act passed with bipartisan majority votes in normal procedure in both houses of congress. More than 60% of the members of each party in each chamber voted for the bill at every stage of the proceedings, including cloture in the senate.

I think they were able to do this through outsourcing--it was all about per-unit cost, don't you see.

[Danube of Thought]

Vote totals on the Civil Rights Act of 1964:

The original House version:

* Democratic Party: 152-96 (61%-39%)
* Republican Party: 138-34 (80%-20%)

Cloture in the Senate:

* Democratic Party: 44-23 (66%-34%)
* Republican Party: 27-6 (82%-18%)

The Senate version:

* Democratic Party: 46-21 (69%-31%)
* Republican Party: 27-6 (82%-18%)

The Senate version, voted on by the House:

* Democratic Party: 153-91 (63%-37%)
* Republican Party: 136-35 (80%-20%)

[centralcal]

I interrupt DoT slapping around Al Asad, just for a quick moment.

Remember that naked Al Gore NRO magazine cover? (ha - who could forget it!) Anyway there is a still photo of Sen. Inhofe using a really big blow up of the cover, placed on an easel, while discussing the global warming hoax on the Senate floor.

LUN - and laugh, laugh, laugh.

[EBJ]

"I guess they are worried Obama is serious about the peace process."

Yeah, just count the progress. Simple but effective:

Step 1: Hit reset button.
Step 2: ????????
Step 3: Peace for Everyone!

[matt]

coals to Newcastle, daddy?

surprisingly, a clear link in Shanghai.Hooray for the Interwebs gods!

[centralcal]

Oh, and there is a link at my LUN to a video of his presentation posted on Inhofe's web site.

C'mon Kim - you will have to get a great laugh outta this!

[daddy]

Amazing isn't it Narciso,

Between the options of:

(1) letting private companies continue to pay the State and Taxpayers for the privilege of getting the gazillion tons of natural gas out of the ground we sit on, or

(2) instead spending valuable Taxpayer funds to try to concoct untried energy schemes on the slopes of an active volcano that has exploded to 45,000 feet 3 times in the last 20 years,

we're seriously considering option 2.

[Danube of Thought]

I love Inhofe--he's relentless and merciless.

[Al Asad]

"Hey, it's Al! Welcome back, buddy! Done any further research on how outsourcing made the transistor commercially viable?"

Well, if yer really interested in edyoocating yerself, read Barry Commoner's 'The Politics of Energy'.

[Cowboy Steve]

Yeah DOT, get yerself' some edyooocationing.

[peter (Lenten Sunday dispensation)]

In Kaputt, Malaparte describes a horrible thing Tatars used to do to their prisoners. They'd tie each one to a corpse, arm to arm, leg to leg. mouth to mouth and in time the corpse would devour the captive. This is what Obama is doing to his party--tying it to the corpse of Obamacare.

Clarice, very colorful analogy... but I just crossed Malaparte off my "light vacation reading" list.

[centralcal]

Cowboy Steve and Al Asad both have the same little avatar thingy. ::and other little thingies, I am sure::

Funny how they both like to use "yer" - just like Dementedleo used to do.

Okay - time to turn on the troll zapper.

[Cowboy Steve]

Way off base c-cal.

[Captain Hate]

CC, I think Cowboy Steve is a legit poster.

[Cowboy Steve]

Scroll up the thread, c-cal, you have the same avatar as the person who posted just before you, annd I believe you are not the same people.

[BobDenver]

Clarice, when you say the corpse would "devour" the captive, what does that mean, exactly? I have this vision of the bacteria and other critters feeding on the corpse turning their attention to the living flesh in a totally unnatural way.

[Danube of Thought]

I recognize Cowboy Steve as a guy who's been around here quite a bit.

"During the late 1950s, [Barry] Commoner became a well-known protester against nuclear testing. He went on to write several books about the negative ecological effects of above-ground nuclear testing. In 1970 he received the International Humanist Award from the International Humanist and Ethical Union. His 1971 book, The Closing Circle, suggested a left-wing, eco-socialist response to the limits to growth thesis, postulating that capitalist technologies were chiefly responsible for environmental degradation, as opposed to population pressures. In 1980, he founded the Citizens Party to serve as a vehicle for his ecological message, and his candidacy for President on the Citizens Party ticket won 233,052 votes (0.27% of the total)."

[centralcal]

Apologies, Cowboy Steve!

I take back my "little thingy" remark - lol.

[Extraneus]

How about these demands from Madame Clinton:

1. Investigate the process that led to the announcement of the Ramat Shlomo construction plans in the middle of Biden's visit. The Americans seek an official response from Israel on whether this was a bureaucratic mistake or a deliberate act carried out for political reasons. Already on Saturday night, Netanyahu announced the convening of a committee to look into the issue.

2. Reverse the decision by the Jerusalem District Planning and Building Committee to approve construction of 1,600 new housing units in Ramat Shlomo.

3. Make a substantial gesture toward the Palestinians enabling the renewal of peace talks. The Americans suggested that hundreds of Palestinian prisoners be released, that the Israel Defense Forces withdraw from additional areas of the West Bank and transfer them to Palestinian control, that the siege of the Gaza Strip be eased and further roadblocks in the West Bank be removed.

4. Issue an official declaration that the talks with the Palestinians, even indirect talks, will deal with all the conflict's core issues - borders, refugees, Jerusalem, security arrangements, water and settlements.

He's right. How could any self-respecting Israeli gov't accede to these?

[Cowboy Steve]

Thanks C-Cal.

I knew that didn't apply to me anyways.

[Extraneus]

Hey narciso, do we know what these great insights were?

Mr. Obama arrived at the law school in 1991 thanks to Michael W. McConnell, a conservative scholar who is now a federal appellate judge. As president of The Harvard Law Review, Mr. Obama had impressed Mr. McConnell with editing suggestions on an article; on little more than that, the law school gave him a fellowship, which amounted to an office and a computer, which he used to write his memoir, “Dreams From My Father.”

[daddy]

Matt,

There's a million joints in Shanghai as we all know, so don't go out of your way or feel any obligation etc...but, if however, you are doing nothing on St Patty's Day and have no commitments or anything of consequence, and you need an evening to kill, may I suggest ">http://maps.google.com/maps/place?hl=en&source=hp&oq=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=the+blarney+stone+shanghai&fb=1&gl=us&hq=the+blarney+stone&hnear=shanghai&cid=4407254335836838900"> The Blarney Stone.

Nothing to write home about, and always looks closed from the outside until you open the front door, but about 8 PM not too loud live acoustic Irish music commences with fat, jolly, good natured Paul belching out good old Irish tunes and his sidekick, "Harry Potter", doing great rhythm/leads on an acoustic. A very nice local joint it is, food is quite good Pub food, and the tall Irish owner Dave is a good man as well. Decent Guinness. The waitress girls DO NOT carry themselves with the poise and confidence of seasoned athletes, but they are nice and friendly and cheerful.

Just up the street is a great Thai Joint, and within 2 blocks is the US Embassy and 4 or 5 other watering holes. A nice safe casual area for tennis shoes, jeans, sweatshirt etc. A new sports bar, The Camel, opened 2 weeks back, just a block or so away, and would probably have on the NCAA's if anybody's playing.

O'Malley's (the enemy Irish Pub) is 2 blocks away in a much nicer old renovated mansion setting, and worth a walk through just to see if anythings going on.

Humpy's 5 pm, 22nd.

[Al Asad]

Wiki; Civil Rights Act of 1964
(where y'all got yer superficial fact-fix)

"Johnson, who wanted the bill passed as soon as possible, ensured that the bill would be quickly considered by the Senate. Normally, the bill would have been referred to the Senate Judiciary Committee, chaired by Senator James O. Eastland, Democrat from Mississippi. Under Eastland's care, it seemed impossible that the bill would reach the Senate floor. Senate Majority Leader Mike Mansfield took a novel approach to prevent the bill from being relegated to Judiciary Committee limbo. Having initially waived a second reading of the bill, which would have led to it being immediately referred to Judiciary, Mansfield gave the bill a second reading on February 26, 1964, and then proposed, in the absence of precedent for instances when a second reading did not immediately follow the first, that the bill bypass the Judiciary Committee and immediately be sent to the Senate floor for debate. Although this parliamentary move led to a filibuster, the senators eventually let it pass, preferring to concentrate their resistance on passage of the bill itself.'

Filibuster? What's that? It sounds familiar. Navigating the obstructions to progress has an apparent application in
modern politics.

Once circumvented, NOBODY, except the intransigent, could refuse to vote for it.

See?

[narciso]

She's basically destroying all prospects of a political future, as if signing on to this crew didn't guarantee that.

[Extraneus]

Heh.

[Al Asad]

"During the late 1950s, [Barry] Commoner became a well-known protester against nuclear testing."

And another supercilious fact-checker stops his research at the first entry.

[Extraneus]

That was for Cowboy Steve, but only because I hadn't seen daddy's DO NOT.

[Al Asad]

"How could any self-respecting Israeli gov't accede to these?"

Uh. How about $3 Billion in military welfare?

[narciso]

I don't have the foggiest, maybe Bernadine Doehrn gave him a clue, Ayers not being a lawyer

[BobDenver]

Question: Does this escalation of tensions with Israel increase or decrease the likelihood of an imminent Israeli attack on Iran? They have to be close to attacking, don't they? This report and the leaking of the Centcom assessment give the feeling that the administration is washing its hands of Israel, does it not? If so, is Israel helped or hurt if they launch an attack that may be popular with the U.S. public?

[Extraneus]

Not sure about that, narciso. She's certainly waiting for the perfect moment to stab him in the back, and that's got to be her resurrection plan. As long as he doesn't get her first, she can always use the loyalty excuse, which they'll buy once they know for sure that he's a lost cause.

She's probably stabbing his voodoo doll right now.

[Porchlight]

Congratulations Cap'n and Mrs. Hate. That's fantastic news!

[centralcal]

Due to Porchlight's congrats, I had to scroll up and see what I had missed about Captain Hate.

What wonderful news. What a great relief to get that news! I am very happy for both of you.

[Clarice]

Bob:"Clarice, when you say the corpse would "devour" the captive, what does that mean, exactly? I have this vision of the bacteria and other critters feeding on the corpse turning their attention to the living flesh in a totally unnatural way."

I can't say this is my specialty but I believe as the corpse deteriorated the less deteriorated, perhaps still living captive, would sink into the decaying flesh.

[pagar]

"She's basically destroying all prospects of a political future,"

That is for sure. I suspect her last demands have insured that every American ally understands that what ever happens, they can never ever trust her, on anything.

[Danube of Thought]

I sent Prof. McConnell an e-mail about prior uses of deem-passed. Here's his response:

"I am not an expert on congressional procedure, but my understanding is that prior use of self-executing rules, as described in the CRS report, is for purpose of amending bills without a separate vote or debate on the amendment -- but where the entire bill would then be voted up or down by the House. The Slaughter proposal would deem a bill to have passed with no vote on that bill at all."

[Melinda Romanoff]

clarice-

Ignore that last missive from me.

System choke point occurred.

All clear now. And post eaten.

[Clarice]

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