Powered by TypePad

« Why Is He Running? Just BeKaus | Main | Fauxmentum »

March 15, 2010

Comments

Rick Ballard

OL,

Stop rethinking - just deem the rule repealed and start pouring.

Janet

Why are you tellin me Clarice? **cough,cough** I have no interest in tobacco products. (where's that d#^n lighter?)
Yep, no smokers in this household.

Porchlight

Mmmmm...sidecars...good drink for this weekend, heh.

Janet

And anyway, how are you guys gonna pay for your schools without the smokers? Heck, we should be heroes in this country!

Old Lurker

Pops, Cat is closing it's NC backhoe plant, firing 1600, moving the production off shore.

So it begins.

Rick Ballard

Chris Dodd sics DoJ on Lehman. Dick Fuld, meet Ken Lay. I wonder where Lloyd and Jamie plan to 'get away from it all' this year? Somewhere without an extradition treaty would be my bet.

Old Lurker

Besides Janet. If you guys didn't smoke, you'd live longer and that would cost SS and Medicare more. Puff away, say the kids to oldsters. Man we tax you more and support you less. God bless smokers! (Plus the cig tax is the most regressive tax we have, except for lottery tickets, so I love em...)

sbw

... and Lehman sics DoJ on Chris Dodd?

Janet

"Yep son, in days of yor it was the smokers and lotto ticket buyers that kept our country goin." "God bless those fine people."

Janet

**yore** I think Yor was the god of "times past".

glasater

Sidecar

.....nasty drink:-)

Margaritas

mmm-mmm......

DrJ

I read the Bill takes on a 50% hike in insurance premiums for smokers.

That'll get all of us evil smokers to sign up for insurance and forgo the fine, now won't it? With no exclusion for pre-existing conditions, why should we sign up?

Clarice

Janet, I'm with you..but i got sivk of paying for govt profligacy and quit so they'd have to find another way to fund it.

Porchlight

Ellsworth a yes? I saw an update at HotAir but I'm not linking it b/c I'm tired of AllahEeyore's stupid "heart-ache" BS.

Can't remember how he was listed on the whip counts but I don't think he was a def. no.

Jim Ryan

Perriello says he'll vote Yes but only if the Senate promises to give him what he wants.

Translation: "Nancy's letting me vote No and I'm going to vote No. But I want to tell Charlottesville lefties next fall that my No was a Yes in spirit."

Clarice

ever heard f this blogger before but he counts 217 votes AGAINST the bill..
http://thehayride.com/2010/03/no-bill-no-cbo-numbers-bad-sign-for-obamacare/

MikeS

Right now it seems like Dems don't give a damn what the people want. I'm sure that will change when they are in charge of our health care.

When we need a new hip or some hyper-expensive pharmaceutical they will be much more accommodating than they are now.

Jim Ryan

Perriello has no chance in November if he votes Yes. But while a No gives him a fighting chance, the C-ville lefties won't turn out on election day for him if he votes No.

Clarice

Hayride says pay great attention to this..


Re: DeFazio [Kathryn Jean Lopez]
Statement from DeFazio's office:

I voted for the original bill for three principal reasons: it had a public option which would get people out from under the thumb of the insurance industry; it had national exchanges which would give people lower rates and better coverage; and, after decades of trying, we finally fixed the Medicare geographic disparities formula which discriminates against Oregon and 16 other states. The most current version of the health care bill includes none of these provisions and unless we fix the geographic disparities, I cannot vote for this bill. We negotiated this change for months and we finally got an agreement included in the House bill and expected it to be in the final bill, but it has been removed.

The formula has been unfair for 40 years and has only gotten worse in subsequent budget reconciliation bills. It is outdated and currently discriminates against Oregon and 16 other states that provide low cost, high quality care. Studies by MedPAC, the Institute of Medicine and the Dartmouth Institute for Health Policy have all found the current formula inequitable and recommended that it be fixed but, it has not happened. The language in the House bill would have mandated the formula change. It does not cost three times as much to do an appendectomy in Florida as it does in Oregon but currently Medicare spends three times as much annually per an enrollee in Miami as in Eugene. The most calls I get the in my district offices are from seniors who cannot get a doctor because reimbursement rates are so low. This change would improve access to care for millions of seniors across the country. Fixing the Medicare geographic disparities formula is only right and only fair. It is long past time for this to change.
03/19 03:52 PMShare
*****************************************
(De Fazio's complaints about the failure of the Senate bill to scratch the geographic disparities as the House bill did cannot be corrected at this point)

Porchlight

NRO reporting Cao "hopes to reconsider" his no vote over the weekend. I don't know if I believe this but I will be livid if a single Repub votes for this thing. Cao is a complete moron if he thinks Nancy can promise him a change in the abortion language.

Elliott

Bold prediction: Anti-reactionary infiltrators of the next big Tea Party rally will carry signs reading "Djakarta is coming".

Jim Ryan

Obama lame duck by Monday morning?

glenda

I finally feel like "catching up" with the smartest people in America, and....bad, our wonderful bad...tears for her family, but there is new joy in heaven. With angels like Susie having our back, we will deem Obama and Pelosi to the trash bin of history!
Let's roll, people!

jimmyk

I will be livid if a single Repub votes for this thing.

Meaning that you will have a Cao?

Rick Ballard

"Meaning that you will have a Cao?"

Geez, do I file that before or after finding Jesus in the trunk, the Ottoman or the Afghan?

Clarice

Hayride is from La and says do not worry about Cao --he's just making noise.

He also says this:
Update 3-19, 5:08 PM: Firedoglake has a new count 200 YES to 209 NO, 207 YES to 212 NO with leaners included. It’s a good count, but we know from multiple reports that Space is leaning no, and Rahall is a flat-out no. That count also has Kaptur as a “leaning yes”, but she has said that the current abortion language is “unacceptable,” so that would take a lot of explaining. They have also ignored McNerney and Schrader, both whom I think are “undecided,” if not “leaning no.”

****From his mouth to God's ears as they say.

DrJ

The thing that interests me is that the MSM (no surprise) and the Fox all-stars last night both say this thing would pass. Even Krauthammer last night. I don't think they are keeping score, but are instead watching the politics.

We'll see shortly, I suppose.

JM Hanes

I have it on good authority that the sun is deemed over the yardarm until the House votes, at which time the Manhattan to Margaritaville exemption will kick in.

Sue

do I file that before or after finding Jesus in the trunk

Now tell me that wasn't funny. ::grin::

Sue

Shep is reporting they have the votes.

RichatUF

Good grief. I'm really starting to hate this Congress. Did anyone live blog or write up Obama's visit to Fairfax this morning?

Old Lurker

"Shep is reporting they have the votes."

Yes, and with that s**t eating smirk of his and his emphasis on "Health INSURANCE reform", followed by the rest of the prog line.

Oh how I wish Jeopardy came on 30 minutes earlier.

I do have a continuing question if anyone knows. I have heard emphatic claims that Obama can sign the Law as soon as Pelosi and the senate leader claim it passed and that will be done as soon as Sunday night. Rush said it that way among others. Others, notably the Allstars "act" like it will not become law until the Recon dance is done.

So what the heck is happening?

Old Lurker

"Starting" Rich? Where ya been?

Frau Mut

JeanD's letter is so good, it should go viral.
If it is in AT, I will send it to all I know, even my snooty young nephew in D.C. who defends *his* president and will "stand by him." I hope his president protects him when he and his young wife and little boys are sent to the country of Georgia later this year.

For all those who found no difference between the parties a/o candidates, I hope they are sweating like the rest of us who did what we could to prevent this. If the HCR does pass, it will take $$$ and effort to contest it in any and all ways. We need to remember that.

Mark Steyn has pointed out clearly that this plan oozes corruption. He said earlier this week that if we were getting Canadian socialized medicine it would be better than ObamaCarp which has special deals for special groups --govt. workers, union members, elected members of Congress and families. There will be no equality. The special people will not lose a crumb of their piece of pie to help others. As I see it, the rest of the country will lose plenty.

Ignatz

--Shep is reporting they have the votes.--

That frog eyed freak is as about as reliable a contra indicator as little Dicky Morris.

Sue

So what the heck is happening?

Liberty is dying.

Frau Mut

The public at large does not know of the inequality of this massive fraud. It never gets attention in the press or other media. Why? Americans usually demand equal treatment.

Jane

My radio station did a remote this afternoon with the boston talent coming out here and broadcasting from a local inn.

I was invited to join in. We had an incredible discussion about health care, where in I got to convince the liberal we needed to start over. The real fun part is that it was in front of an audience and they got so animated that it was amazing. One person said it was all she could do to not throw a shoe.

What a blast that gig is. It sounds like I missed a bunch of good news. I was pretty demoralized when I left earlier. So are we more optimistic tonite?

Ignatz

--So what the heck is happening?--

My understanding is if Pelosi and Reid certify and send to Barry the stand alone Sentate bill that is the only thing he can sign immediately. Then the question of does "deemed" constitute passage arises, which will probably go nowhere. Then they mess around with the reconcilation sideshow and may or may not modify the thing.
Can't see them trying any other route after what the Senate parliamentarian told them.

RichatUF

OL-

I haven't been paying enough attention. They all suck.

Old Lurker

That's how I read it too, Iggy. Come Monday we have new masters.

RichatUF

Jane-

So are we more optimistic tonite?

I'm in a more foul mood than usual.

Sue

Commenter at Hot Air says Stupak is saying there is no agreement. No link.

MaryAnne

Stupak met with Pelosi and a proposal has emerged that Stupak said "needs massaging" and he hopes to have an agreement to announce tomorrow at 11:00 am. Capuano (from my state of MA) is supposedly upset with the proposal. I also read that both houses would have to agree to the language on the proposal which makes no sense to me. Stupak has been so strong but he's trying too hard to find a way to vote "yes". Pelosi must need the votes (Cantor could be correct when he said they were 7 down) or Pelosi just wants some "yes" votes so that she can free endangered dems to vote "no".

peter

OL, if the Senate bill passes, the skinny socialist will sign it into law immediately, then tell the public it needs some slight tweaking, which they will dick around with ad infinitum. I pray that a giant blizzard hits DC tomorrow.

RichatUF

This is getting to be worse than Kremlinologists studying the latest pictures from the most recent military parade. I'm thinking that astrology might be more useful than the news over the next 2 days.

e leaves

It's all about federal jobs. How many does this legislation have and what is the potential in ten years when everyone forgets. Dems already cut those and it's not fair cause they aren't doing it for federal jobs and we'll know that in ten years after two 'sustainable' budgets.

There is no more money anywhere else, look at Canada.

Rick Ballard

Rich,

Given that the tax increases kick in immediately, landlords should be preparing their 10% ObamaTax Rent Surcharge notices this weekend so that they can be mailed on Monday. Along with a few hundred thousand pink slips.

RichatUF

if the Senate bill passes, the skinny socialist will sign it into law immediately, then tell the public it needs some slight tweaking

A bit like Clinton promising to reform, welfare reform, after it passed.

Sue

http://blog.heritage.org/2010/03/18/the-house-health-fix-even-higher-job-killing-employment-taxes/>This is wild

Businesses that already offer insurance can be affected by the reconciliation bill. Even if the employer does provide health insurance, if any employees qualify for, and accept, a premium subsidy on the basis of their family size and family income, the employer will have to pay a penalty of $3,000 per year for each qualifying employee. Even more businesses are in danger of this penalty since the reconciliation bill ups the subsidy amount, meaning that more workers could take it. This penalty depends not on how much that employer pays, but on the employees total family income from all jobs held by all family members. This means employers would have to know the income of each employee’s other family members to know whether they need to pay the tax. The bill requires that the IRS provide this family information to the employer.
Frau Mut

Pity the poor Americans who were born elsewhere and came here to escape or avoid what is possibly coming at us, or who had lived through totalitarian times. My husband is one such person. My whole life I have heard it said "that could never happen in the U.S." and I have known, whatever the political nightmare was, it could indeed unfold here. Bill Ayers and Hillary! both said at different times in their lives that the country would only be changed from within. Jim Ryan should not have to go to jail because he refuses to bow to the progressives' vision of the New Improved United States.
Well, what are we going to do about it?

Pofarmer

Did anyone live blog or write up Obama's visit to Fairfax this morning?.


Heard a clip, typical, "Some say it costs too much, I say we CAN'T afford not to do this." Hopey Changey bullshit.

Sue

I wish they would quit showing Obama. I am so sick of him. Sick. Sick. Sick. Funny, I may need Obamacare because of Obama.

Pofarmer

Sarah Palin is going to speak in Independence MO on May 1. Tickets go on sale Monday. I'm gonna try to get me some, might just take some friends along, too.

Pofarmer

I now deem I gotta go finish feeding cattle. Been digging up a broken water line in the yard all day. Fun, FUN!!!!!!!

Sue

Stupak is dealing with Pelosi. He'll cave.

Frau Mut

Well, it's after 5:00p.m. in the west and I've just made a toast that I will raise to Bad and let her spirit know that I will continue to say "it sucks" as long as suckage exists in our country. Cheney, I'm sure, is proud to have been claimed by one of our nation's finest.

Sue

Stupak just told me the convo with Pelosi was about an abortion-related “proposal that’s out there,” that he wants to “see it in writing” before he signs off on it

Stupak told me Dem leaders “don’t have the votes, or they wouldn’t be talking to me.” He holds a presser on Sat at 11am and “hopes” he’ll have an agreement to announce. Leaving the Capitol, he told me “there’s a proposal out there but nothing yet and we want to see it in writing and massage it,” which is what he told the Speaker during the 10 min pow wow

Rep. Becerra confirms that there are “animated discussions” going on over the abortion language with both sides.

http://twitter.com/mollyhooper>Molly Hooper tweet

Jim Ryan

Last January the gods turned up the light under the frog's pot from low to high. Now that the frog is thinking about jumping out of the pot, the gods are prodding him with a sharp stick in the form of this bill. This may all be for the better.

Jim Ryan

Stupak will release a statement that will sound like "...faught hard...not everything we wanted...did the best we could for the unborn...but American families need health care...nothing's ever perfect...."

Frau Mut

Sue, there is no way to communicate with Stupak or anyone else. They are literally cut off since the phones are tied up. I've tried the D.C. and local offices all day, and everything is busy.

RichatUF

Rick-

Wouldn't that need some other moniker: the media puffed up "funployment", maybe the passed on tax increases can be "lollie pops" or "Obama investments".

This comment probably sounds funnier in my mind than in how it reads.

Frau Mut

How do you get through, Sue?

Sue

Stupak is going to do what Stupak is going to do. He is going to cave, with language sounding muck like Jim posted above. No phone calls will sway him if he believes he can say abortions will be funded under the senate bill, the bill they are voting on, and turns around and says anything else at this point.

Jane

Boy if Stupak caves I will be shocked. He has been such a lone voice and have been hung out to dry. I can't believe after that he would say - no problem.

Sue

Frau,

My bad, I should have made that clear it was a tweet from Molly Hooper. I haven't talked to Stupak. He is not going to listen to someone from Texas.

Clarice

Sue, that's what my husband said--but then the fine was only $750 per employee--Now it's up to $3K. Walter took a different view and said it was only per employee who took the option, not every employee on the payroll. All I know is that once people have a law to work with my sharpened pike business will be even more lucrative.

Rick Ballard

Rich,

"Mandatory 10% ObamaCare Contribution" sounds about right. I'm still working through the ancillary impacts, should this pass. More "self help", for sure. More contract workers, more temp workers, more under the table cash work, higher rents, a much quicker payback on automation and robotics, more OT in order to avoid new hires and a strong increase in the probability that unemployment will not decline until Obama's crushing defeat in '12.

Other suggestions?

Clarice

From the Foundry--Here's the job killing news:

Punishing Businesses That Hire Low-Income Workers
Businesses that already offer insurance can be affected by the reconciliation bill. Even if the employer does provide health insurance, if any employees qualify for, and accept, a premium subsidy on the basis of their family size and family income, the employer will have to pay a penalty of $3,000 per year for each qualifying employee. Even more businesses are in danger of this penalty since the reconciliation bill ups the subsidy amount, meaning that more workers could take it. This penalty depends not on how much that employer pays, but on the employees total family income from all jobs held by all family members. This means employers would have to know the income of each employee’s other family members to know whether they need to pay the tax. The bill requires that the IRS provide this family information to the employer.

Because qualifications for that taxpayer subsidy depend on the worker’s family size and family income, a worker with more dependents would be more likely to qualify, and one with a working spouse or other family members would be less likely to qualify.

Employers faced with the choice of hiring—for the same job at the same pay—say, a single parent of three, and a parent of two with a working spouse (or a teenager with working parent(s)), the employer could face a $3,000 annual penalty for hiring the single parent—and is therefore likely to deny that person the job.

Likewise, if one company lays off an employee with a working spouse, that could generate a $3,000 tax penalty for the other spouse’s employer—unless the other employer lays off the other spouse as well.

If the employer hires two people in different family situations for the same job at the same pay, they could have vastly different health insurance options based on what their other family members are making. The one with another working family member would have to take a plan from one of their employers and pay up to 40 percent of the cost or face tax penalties; the one with no other working family members could choose either the employer’s plan or any plan in the exchange – in the latter case, with a subsidy paid for by the other workers’ taxes."

http://blog.heritage.org/2010/03/18/the-house-health-fix-even-higher-job-killing-employment-taxes/>Dump the poor

Frau Mut

Robin of Berkley at AT: "As a lifelong liberal, I always assumed that pro-life meant the government controlling women's bodies. But I finally understand the concept. Pro-life means viewing every life as sacred, as a gift from God...and understanding that human beings have no business playing the Messiah."
"Dr. Death" Ezekiel Emanuel needs to read this.
LUN

Janet

I wish they would quit showing Obama. I am so sick of him. Sick. Sick. Sick. Funny, I may need Obamacare because of Obama.
LOL Sue!!
Can you imagine in your own family saying, "It cost too much, I say we can't afford NOT to get this."?
Please, no one tell my daughter that line.

Old Lurker

Yes, C, last weekend that fine was $750 and is now $3,000. Last weekend the new tax on rents etc and gains was 2.9% and now 3.9%. Another week like this and we are all broke. Wonder what else is changing?

Sue

Janet,

We are truly living in Alice's Wonderland.

glasater

Sue--I'm equally as sick of seeing Zero's mug on TV as you are.

Elliott--there very well could be blood "poured" everywhere if this monstrosity of a bill/rule is passed.

Old Lurker

"Other suggestions?"

The increase in OT for current employees will move them unfairly into the winner's circle, while so so many others are denied access to jobs. That will, in the beginning, justify a surtax on OT income so that money can be transferred to the unfortunates. When that fails, then it will only be fair to limit all jobs to 35 hours per week and mandate six week vacations.

The rules are all there if you can translate from French.

Clarice

More details on what's happening with Stupak:
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NjQ5ZDU1NzA5NzI0MWVmZjM3ZDlhODI3MWY4ZjVhOTk=>Abortion hang up seems real

Jim Ryan

OL, the frog will die trying to get out of the pot before he accepts that.

More than half of Americans are by nature incapable of accepting tyranny. Millions will not cooperate with the health care plan. The Dems' encroachment will not go any further.

The only question is how this plays out. It doesn't move to tyranny because the people won't submit and law enforcement won't comply with the administration's orders. I don't know what happens but it won't be tyranny.

Jim Ryan

Stupak wants to force me to buy the insurance he has selected for me. He can stuff his insurance where the sun doesn't shine. He is a would-be tyrant.

Janet

What a wonderful miracle if it ends up being the unborn children that derail this thing. God working through the weakest!

Sue

You know what will happen to keep the number of employees under 50? New companies will be formed where one company has 25 employees and the other one has 25 employees. Easily done. In Texas, anyway. Lawyers and CPAs everywhere should be dancing in the streets as they work overtime to "hide" the numbers.

Ignatz

Well I've tried and failed twice to link a HotAir article concerning Judge McConnell's contention Slaughter is unconstitutional; so this time no linky.
He expands on his WSJ article from earlier. Trust me it's there. Go have a look.

Ignatz

The key he claims is not that 'deem and pass' is unconstitutional but that deem, pass and split is. Pretty compelling.

Ann

Ignatz: I'll try for you:

Former federal judge: Yes, the Slaughter strategy is unconstitutional

Ignatz

Here's the WSJ link to McConnell.

After all this no doubt somebody already linked it earlier.

Ignatz

Thank you Ann.
Frickin typepad.

Barbara

"What a wonderful miracle if it ends up being the unborn children that derail this thing. God working through the weakest!"

Janet, Great comment! That would be wonderful indeed.

hit and run

My Congressman just robo-called me to tell me he is fighting for me in Washington this week.

Go Howard Coble Go!

And he was using his outside voice. If I'm not mistaken,there was a vein popping out in his forehead when he was recording the message.

hit and run

Yes,I am that mean.

RichatUF

OL-

Don't give them anymore ideas?

Rick-

Pretty good list. I'd think that an increase in rents would feed into the cpi numbers and send an inflation impulse requiring a few interest rate increases. The medical equipment and devices tax would probably choke off those exports (too expensive for other countries to import for their health services {curious since Obama yammered on about doubling US exports in 5 years}).

Obama's Fairfax remarks for anyone interested.


hit and run

Oh,great. The order of a couple of posts is now in question. The mean post should not come before one that may be stuck in typepad hell.

If it gets posted,you'll understand. If not,then understand,it was mean.

hit and run

Let's try again...but this time in all caps and more exclamation marks...

NEW THREAD!!!!!!

glasater

From Reuters:

Immediate Healthcare Benefits?

My question mark.

hit and run

Made you look.

narciso

We were talking on the other thread, how measures like this, would in part make automation much more feasible, Of course SkyNet was raised, but one can add the replicants of Blade Runner, and the Chandlereque milieu of Caprica, needless to say it doesn't end well

Old Lurker

You're dreaming, Jim. More than 50% are on the receiving end of the straw already. Nearly 50% pay no income taxes at all. The great majority of the taxes are paid by only 20%, with most of those paid by 10%. Most soon to be legals come from south of the border from cultures steeped in the many being supported by the few. (Rodney Stark) Most even college educated young people have an incomplete and slanted sense of history and philosophy, if any at all. The WWII generation is about gone and my generation of boomers is the worst thing ever done to this country.

Until I witnessed the travesty unfolding before us, I was grumpy but optimistic. Now I'm just grumpy. And to Sue's observation above, I watched Obama at George Mason today and all I saw was a grainy black and white of Hitler messmerizing the masses in the 30's, with Pelosi, Reid et al playing the parts of the SS enforcers.

And I know that some of my friends here are not fans of Rand and Atlas Shrugged, but it is difficult to experience this train wreck today and not feel like we living in that novel.

Clarice

Stupak will be on with Greta tonight at 10. He said this afternoon Pelosi still did not have the votes.

JeanD

Hit, there is a difference between mean and right. You always seem to land on the side of right. It's not your fault that we enjoy your rightness.

Jim Ryan: my local 50,000 watt station played audio of your clip this a.m., and I heard it again this afternoon on Howie Carr's show. You rock, and I will happily share space with you in the "not going to comply zone."

Thanks to all who liked my letter! I won't post it anywhere, but if you want to chip and ship it, feel free. The only place I am sending it is to my waffling Stupak bloc rep, mostly because I think he is the only person I might sway at this point.

If I quit fighting, they win.

I don't intend to quit.


narciso

The "Dog Eat Dog" bill, the intrigues of Wesley Mouch and Cuffy Meigs, vs the efforts of Hank Rearden and Dagny Taggart, yes it all feels 'like deja vu all over again" as Yogi Berra would say.

Ironic, how 7 years ago, the US sought out to liberate a nation, yet now it seems well the
reverse is being inflicted upon us,

Ignatz

Here's a link to a post at Volokh by Johnathon Adler relating to McConnell's arguments.
Cboldt and MJW show up ably in comments.

Jim Ryan

But OL, law enforcement and the military will not cooperate. The national guard will not be made available. Half of the people who don't pay taxes still get it. They didn't choose not to pay taxes. They instinctively know it isn't right. They know tyranny is abominable and they can't be bought.

I still think over half of this country knows the taste of freedom and won't sacrifice it. You're only describing the 40% who are leftists and dolts.

Even if it's only 25% who still love liberty, law enforcement and the military will not point their guns at them.

The comments to this entry are closed.

Wilson/Plame