It Took Nearly Seven Years...

Paul Krugman finally answers a rhetorical question he posed in September of 2003. Way back then he was bashing Bush for Iraq (natch) and for going hat in hand to China to talk to them about their undervalued currency.  His Nobel Prize for international trade was still in the future, so on the gloomy prospects of a currency confrontation between China and the US the extent of his "analysis" was this:

But [President Bush, by way of Treasury Secretary Snow] got no satisfaction. A quick look at the situation reveals one reason why: the U.S. currently has very little leverage over China. Mr. Bush needs China's help to deal with North Korea — another crisis that was allowed to fester while the administration focused on Iraq. Furthermore, purchases of Treasury bills by China's central bank are one of the main ways the U.S. finances its trade deficit.

Nobody is quite sure what would happen if the Chinese suddenly switched to, say, euros — a two-point jump in mortgage rates? — but it's not an experiment anyone wants to try.

That was during the 2003 recession and recovery when the Fed was keeping the Fed Funds rate below 2%.

But the years have passed, as has the Bush Administration, and now Paul Krugman has joined the world in decrying the undervalued Chinese currency.  And he has answers on the economic front!

Tensions are rising over Chinese economic policy, and rightly so: China’s policy of keeping its currency, the renminbi, undervalued has become a significant drag on global economic recovery. Something must be done.

...

If Treasury does find Chinese currency manipulation, then what? Here, we have to get past a common misunderstanding: the view that the Chinese have us over a barrel, because we don’t dare provoke China into dumping its dollar assets.

What you have to ask is, What would happen if China tried to sell a large share of its U.S. assets? Would interest rates soar? Short-term U.S. interest rates wouldn’t change: they’re being kept near zero by the Fed, which won’t raise rates until the unemployment rate comes down. Long-term rates might rise slightly, but they’re mainly determined by market expectations of future short-term rates. Also, the Fed could offset any interest-rate impact of a Chinese pullback by expanding its own purchases of long-term bonds.

It’s true that if China dumped its U.S. assets the value of the dollar would fall against other major currencies, such as the euro. But that would be a good thing for the United States, since it would make our goods more competitive and reduce our trade deficit. On the other hand, it would be a bad thing for China, which would suffer large losses on its dollar holdings. In short, right now America has China over a barrel, not the other way around.

Hmm, some of those points were obvious even to me back in 2003.  As to debunking the "common misunderstanding" that China has us over a barrel, one wonders why that was less obvious back when Bush was raising the issue. One might also wonder whether Krugman was contributing to that misunderstanding with his "Nobody is quite sure what would happen if the Chinese suddenly switched to, say, euros" fog-burst.  And while we are wondering, we might ask when it was that Team Obama solved the North Korean problem that featured so prominently in Krugman's 2003 rhetorical sally.

So many questions.  No doubt some will be cleared up by a Krugman column in 2017.

MORE:  Dan Drezner decries Krugman's bellicose unilateralism and manages to limit his "I told you so-ism" to much less than seven years.

Comments

[Rick Ballard]

OL,

Stop rethinking - just deem the rule repealed and start pouring.

[Janet]

Why are you tellin me Clarice? **cough,cough** I have no interest in tobacco products. (where's that d#^n lighter?)
Yep, no smokers in this household.

[Porchlight]

Mmmmm...sidecars...good drink for this weekend, heh.

[Janet]

And anyway, how are you guys gonna pay for your schools without the smokers? Heck, we should be heroes in this country!

[Old Lurker]

Pops, Cat is closing it's NC backhoe plant, firing 1600, moving the production off shore.

So it begins.

[Rick Ballard]

Chris Dodd sics DoJ on Lehman. Dick Fuld, meet Ken Lay. I wonder where Lloyd and Jamie plan to 'get away from it all' this year? Somewhere without an extradition treaty would be my bet.

[Old Lurker]

Besides Janet. If you guys didn't smoke, you'd live longer and that would cost SS and Medicare more. Puff away, say the kids to oldsters. Man we tax you more and support you less. God bless smokers! (Plus the cig tax is the most regressive tax we have, except for lottery tickets, so I love em...)

[sbw]

... and Lehman sics DoJ on Chris Dodd?

[Janet]

"Yep son, in days of yor it was the smokers and lotto ticket buyers that kept our country goin." "God bless those fine people."

[Janet]

**yore** I think Yor was the god of "times past".

[glasater]

Sidecar

.....nasty drink:-)

Margaritas

mmm-mmm......

[DrJ]

I read the Bill takes on a 50% hike in insurance premiums for smokers.

That'll get all of us evil smokers to sign up for insurance and forgo the fine, now won't it? With no exclusion for pre-existing conditions, why should we sign up?

[Clarice]

Janet, I'm with you..but i got sivk of paying for govt profligacy and quit so they'd have to find another way to fund it.

[Porchlight]

Ellsworth a yes? I saw an update at HotAir but I'm not linking it b/c I'm tired of AllahEeyore's stupid "heart-ache" BS.

Can't remember how he was listed on the whip counts but I don't think he was a def. no.

[Jim Ryan]

Perriello says he'll vote Yes but only if the Senate promises to give him what he wants.

Translation: "Nancy's letting me vote No and I'm going to vote No. But I want to tell Charlottesville lefties next fall that my No was a Yes in spirit."

[Clarice]

ever heard f this blogger before but he counts 217 votes AGAINST the bill..
http://thehayride.com/2010/03/no-bill-no-cbo-numbers-bad-sign-for-obamacare/

[MikeS]

Right now it seems like Dems don't give a damn what the people want. I'm sure that will change when they are in charge of our health care.

When we need a new hip or some hyper-expensive pharmaceutical they will be much more accommodating than they are now.

[Jim Ryan]

Perriello has no chance in November if he votes Yes. But while a No gives him a fighting chance, the C-ville lefties won't turn out on election day for him if he votes No.

[Clarice]

Hayride says pay great attention to this..

Re: DeFazio [Kathryn Jean Lopez]
Statement from DeFazio's office:

I voted for the original bill for three principal reasons: it had a public option which would get people out from under the thumb of the insurance industry; it had national exchanges which would give people lower rates and better coverage; and, after decades of trying, we finally fixed the Medicare geographic disparities formula which discriminates against Oregon and 16 other states. The most current version of the health care bill includes none of these provisions and unless we fix the geographic disparities, I cannot vote for this bill. We negotiated this change for months and we finally got an agreement included in the House bill and expected it to be in the final bill, but it has been removed.

The formula has been unfair for 40 years and has only gotten worse in subsequent budget reconciliation bills. It is outdated and currently discriminates against Oregon and 16 other states that provide low cost, high quality care. Studies by MedPAC, the Institute of Medicine and the Dartmouth Institute for Health Policy have all found the current formula inequitable and recommended that it be fixed but, it has not happened. The language in the House bill would have mandated the formula change. It does not cost three times as much to do an appendectomy in Florida as it does in Oregon but currently Medicare spends three times as much annually per an enrollee in Miami as in Eugene. The most calls I get the in my district offices are from seniors who cannot get a doctor because reimbursement rates are so low. This change would improve access to care for millions of seniors across the country. Fixing the Medicare geographic disparities formula is only right and only fair. It is long past time for this to change.
03/19 03:52 PMShare
*****************************************
(De Fazio's complaints about the failure of the Senate bill to scratch the geographic disparities as the House bill did cannot be corrected at this point)

[Porchlight]

NRO reporting Cao "hopes to reconsider" his no vote over the weekend. I don't know if I believe this but I will be livid if a single Repub votes for this thing. Cao is a complete moron if he thinks Nancy can promise him a change in the abortion language.

[Elliott]

Bold prediction: Anti-reactionary infiltrators of the next big Tea Party rally will carry signs reading "Djakarta is coming".

[Jim Ryan]

Obama lame duck by Monday morning?

[glenda]

I finally feel like "catching up" with the smartest people in America, and....bad, our wonderful bad...tears for her family, but there is new joy in heaven. With angels like Susie having our back, we will deem Obama and Pelosi to the trash bin of history!
Let's roll, people!

[jimmyk]

I will be livid if a single Repub votes for this thing.

Meaning that you will have a Cao?

[Rick Ballard]

"Meaning that you will have a Cao?"

Geez, do I file that before or after finding Jesus in the trunk, the Ottoman or the Afghan?

[Clarice]

Hayride is from La and says do not worry about Cao --he's just making noise.

He also says this:
Update 3-19, 5:08 PM: Firedoglake has a new count 200 YES to 209 NO, 207 YES to 212 NO with leaners included. It’s a good count, but we know from multiple reports that Space is leaning no, and Rahall is a flat-out no. That count also has Kaptur as a “leaning yes”, but she has said that the current abortion language is “unacceptable,” so that would take a lot of explaining. They have also ignored McNerney and Schrader, both whom I think are “undecided,” if not “leaning no.”

****From his mouth to God's ears as they say.

[DrJ]

The thing that interests me is that the MSM (no surprise) and the Fox all-stars last night both say this thing would pass. Even Krauthammer last night. I don't think they are keeping score, but are instead watching the politics.

We'll see shortly, I suppose.

[JM Hanes]

I have it on good authority that the sun is deemed over the yardarm until the House votes, at which time the Manhattan to Margaritaville exemption will kick in.

[Sue]

do I file that before or after finding Jesus in the trunk

Now tell me that wasn't funny. ::grin::

[Sue]

Shep is reporting they have the votes.

[RichatUF]

Good grief. I'm really starting to hate this Congress. Did anyone live blog or write up Obama's visit to Fairfax this morning?

[Old Lurker]

"Shep is reporting they have the votes."

Yes, and with that s**t eating smirk of his and his emphasis on "Health INSURANCE reform", followed by the rest of the prog line.

Oh how I wish Jeopardy came on 30 minutes earlier.

I do have a continuing question if anyone knows. I have heard emphatic claims that Obama can sign the Law as soon as Pelosi and the senate leader claim it passed and that will be done as soon as Sunday night. Rush said it that way among others. Others, notably the Allstars "act" like it will not become law until the Recon dance is done.

So what the heck is happening?

[Old Lurker]

"Starting" Rich? Where ya been?

[Frau Mut]

JeanD's letter is so good, it should go viral.
If it is in AT, I will send it to all I know, even my snooty young nephew in D.C. who defends *his* president and will "stand by him." I hope his president protects him when he and his young wife and little boys are sent to the country of Georgia later this year.

For all those who found no difference between the parties a/o candidates, I hope they are sweating like the rest of us who did what we could to prevent this. If the HCR does pass, it will take $$$ and effort to contest it in any and all ways. We need to remember that.

Mark Steyn has pointed out clearly that this plan oozes corruption. He said earlier this week that if we were getting Canadian socialized medicine it would be better than ObamaCarp which has special deals for special groups --govt. workers, union members, elected members of Congress and families. There will be no equality. The special people will not lose a crumb of their piece of pie to help others. As I see it, the rest of the country will lose plenty.

[Ignatz]

--Shep is reporting they have the votes.--

That frog eyed freak is as about as reliable a contra indicator as little Dicky Morris.

[Sue]

So what the heck is happening?

Liberty is dying.

[Frau Mut]

The public at large does not know of the inequality of this massive fraud. It never gets attention in the press or other media. Why? Americans usually demand equal treatment.

[Jane]

My radio station did a remote this afternoon with the boston talent coming out here and broadcasting from a local inn.

I was invited to join in. We had an incredible discussion about health care, where in I got to convince the liberal we needed to start over. The real fun part is that it was in front of an audience and they got so animated that it was amazing. One person said it was all she could do to not throw a shoe.

What a blast that gig is. It sounds like I missed a bunch of good news. I was pretty demoralized when I left earlier. So are we more optimistic tonite?

[Ignatz]

--So what the heck is happening?--

My understanding is if Pelosi and Reid certify and send to Barry the stand alone Sentate bill that is the only thing he can sign immediately. Then the question of does "deemed" constitute passage arises, which will probably go nowhere. Then they mess around with the reconcilation sideshow and may or may not modify the thing.
Can't see them trying any other route after what the Senate parliamentarian told them.

[RichatUF]

OL-

I haven't been paying enough attention. They all suck.

[Old Lurker]

That's how I read it too, Iggy. Come Monday we have new masters.

[RichatUF]

Jane-

So are we more optimistic tonite?

I'm in a more foul mood than usual.

[Sue]

Commenter at Hot Air says Stupak is saying there is no agreement. No link.

[MaryAnne]

Stupak met with Pelosi and a proposal has emerged that Stupak said "needs massaging" and he hopes to have an agreement to announce tomorrow at 11:00 am. Capuano (from my state of MA) is supposedly upset with the proposal. I also read that both houses would have to agree to the language on the proposal which makes no sense to me. Stupak has been so strong but he's trying too hard to find a way to vote "yes". Pelosi must need the votes (Cantor could be correct when he said they were 7 down) or Pelosi just wants some "yes" votes so that she can free endangered dems to vote "no".

[peter]

OL, if the Senate bill passes, the skinny socialist will sign it into law immediately, then tell the public it needs some slight tweaking, which they will dick around with ad infinitum. I pray that a giant blizzard hits DC tomorrow.

[RichatUF]

This is getting to be worse than Kremlinologists studying the latest pictures from the most recent military parade. I'm thinking that astrology might be more useful than the news over the next 2 days.

[e leaves]

It's all about federal jobs. How many does this legislation have and what is the potential in ten years when everyone forgets. Dems already cut those and it's not fair cause they aren't doing it for federal jobs and we'll know that in ten years after two 'sustainable' budgets.

There is no more money anywhere else, look at Canada.

[Rick Ballard]

Rich,

Given that the tax increases kick in immediately, landlords should be preparing their 10% ObamaTax Rent Surcharge notices this weekend so that they can be mailed on Monday. Along with a few hundred thousand pink slips.

[RichatUF]

if the Senate bill passes, the skinny socialist will sign it into law immediately, then tell the public it needs some slight tweaking

A bit like Clinton promising to reform, welfare reform, after it passed.

[Sue]

http://blog.heritage.org/2010/03/18/the-house-health-fix-even-higher-job-killing-employment-taxes/>This is wild

Businesses that already offer insurance can be affected by the reconciliation bill. Even if the employer does provide health insurance, if any employees qualify for, and accept, a premium subsidy on the basis of their family size and family income, the employer will have to pay a penalty of $3,000 per year for each qualifying employee. Even more businesses are in danger of this penalty since the reconciliation bill ups the subsidy amount, meaning that more workers could take it. This penalty depends not on how much that employer pays, but on the employees total family income from all jobs held by all family members. This means employers would have to know the income of each employee’s other family members to know whether they need to pay the tax. The bill requires that the IRS provide this family information to the employer.

[Frau Mut]

Pity the poor Americans who were born elsewhere and came here to escape or avoid what is possibly coming at us, or who had lived through totalitarian times. My husband is one such person. My whole life I have heard it said "that could never happen in the U.S." and I have known, whatever the political nightmare was, it could indeed unfold here. Bill Ayers and Hillary! both said at different times in their lives that the country would only be changed from within. Jim Ryan should not have to go to jail because he refuses to bow to the progressives' vision of the New Improved United States.
Well, what are we going to do about it?

[Pofarmer]

Did anyone live blog or write up Obama's visit to Fairfax this morning?.

Heard a clip, typical, "Some say it costs too much, I say we CAN'T afford not to do this." Hopey Changey bullshit.

[Sue]

I wish they would quit showing Obama. I am so sick of him. Sick. Sick. Sick. Funny, I may need Obamacare because of Obama.

[Pofarmer]

Sarah Palin is going to speak in Independence MO on May 1. Tickets go on sale Monday. I'm gonna try to get me some, might just take some friends along, too.

[Pofarmer]

I now deem I gotta go finish feeding cattle. Been digging up a broken water line in the yard all day. Fun, FUN!!!!!!!

[Sue]

Stupak is dealing with Pelosi. He'll cave.

[Frau Mut]

Well, it's after 5:00p.m. in the west and I've just made a toast that I will raise to Bad and let her spirit know that I will continue to say "it sucks" as long as suckage exists in our country. Cheney, I'm sure, is proud to have been claimed by one of our nation's finest.

[Sue]

Stupak just told me the convo with Pelosi was about an abortion-related “proposal that’s out there,” that he wants to “see it in writing” before he signs off on it

Stupak told me Dem leaders “don’t have the votes, or they wouldn’t be talking to me.” He holds a presser on Sat at 11am and “hopes” he’ll have an agreement to announce. Leaving the Capitol, he told me “there’s a proposal out there but nothing yet and we want to see it in writing and massage it,” which is what he told the Speaker during the 10 min pow wow

Rep. Becerra confirms that there are “animated discussions” going on over the abortion language with both sides.

http://twitter.com/mollyhooper>Molly Hooper tweet

[Jim Ryan]

Last January the gods turned up the light under the frog's pot from low to high. Now that the frog is thinking about jumping out of the pot, the gods are prodding him with a sharp stick in the form of this bill. This may all be for the better.

[Jim Ryan]

Stupak will release a statement that will sound like "...faught hard...not everything we wanted...did the best we could for the unborn...but American families need health care...nothing's ever perfect...."

[Frau Mut]

Sue, there is no way to communicate with Stupak or anyone else. They are literally cut off since the phones are tied up. I've tried the D.C. and local offices all day, and everything is busy.

[RichatUF]

Rick-

Wouldn't that need some other moniker: the media puffed up "funployment", maybe the passed on tax increases can be "lollie pops" or "Obama investments".

This comment probably sounds funnier in my mind than in how it reads.

[Frau Mut]

How do you get through, Sue?

[Sue]

Stupak is going to do what Stupak is going to do. He is going to cave, with language sounding muck like Jim posted above. No phone calls will sway him if he believes he can say abortions will be funded under the senate bill, the bill they are voting on, and turns around and says anything else at this point.

[Jane]

Boy if Stupak caves I will be shocked. He has been such a lone voice and have been hung out to dry. I can't believe after that he would say - no problem.

[Sue]

Frau,

My bad, I should have made that clear it was a tweet from Molly Hooper. I haven't talked to Stupak. He is not going to listen to someone from Texas.

[Clarice]

Sue, that's what my husband said--but then the fine was only $750 per employee--Now it's up to $3K. Walter took a different view and said it was only per employee who took the option, not every employee on the payroll. All I know is that once people have a law to work with my sharpened pike business will be even more lucrative.

[Rick Ballard]

Rich,

"Mandatory 10% ObamaCare Contribution" sounds about right. I'm still working through the ancillary impacts, should this pass. More "self help", for sure. More contract workers, more temp workers, more under the table cash work, higher rents, a much quicker payback on automation and robotics, more OT in order to avoid new hires and a strong increase in the probability that unemployment will not decline until Obama's crushing defeat in '12.

Other suggestions?

[Clarice]

From the Foundry--Here's the job killing news:

Punishing Businesses That Hire Low-Income Workers
Businesses that already offer insurance can be affected by the reconciliation bill. Even if the employer does provide health insurance, if any employees qualify for, and accept, a premium subsidy on the basis of their family size and family income, the employer will have to pay a penalty of $3,000 per year for each qualifying employee. Even more businesses are in danger of this penalty since the reconciliation bill ups the subsidy amount, meaning that more workers could take it. This penalty depends not on how much that employer pays, but on the employees total family income from all jobs held by all family members. This means employers would have to know the income of each employee’s other family members to know whether they need to pay the tax. The bill requires that the IRS provide this family information to the employer.

Because qualifications for that taxpayer subsidy depend on the worker’s family size and family income, a worker with more dependents would be more likely to qualify, and one with a working spouse or other family members would be less likely to qualify.

Employers faced with the choice of hiring—for the same job at the same pay—say, a single parent of three, and a parent of two with a working spouse (or a teenager with working parent(s)), the employer could face a $3,000 annual penalty for hiring the single parent—and is therefore likely to deny that person the job.

Likewise, if one company lays off an employee with a working spouse, that could generate a $3,000 tax penalty for the other spouse’s employer—unless the other employer lays off the other spouse as well.

If the employer hires two people in different family situations for the same job at the same pay, they could have vastly different health insurance options based on what their other family members are making. The one with another working family member would have to take a plan from one of their employers and pay up to 40 percent of the cost or face tax penalties; the one with no other working family members could choose either the employer’s plan or any plan in the exchange – in the latter case, with a subsidy paid for by the other workers’ taxes."

http://blog.heritage.org/2010/03/18/the-house-health-fix-even-higher-job-killing-employment-taxes/>Dump the poor

[Frau Mut]

Robin of Berkley at AT: "As a lifelong liberal, I always assumed that pro-life meant the government controlling women's bodies. But I finally understand the concept. Pro-life means viewing every life as sacred, as a gift from God...and understanding that human beings have no business playing the Messiah."
"Dr. Death" Ezekiel Emanuel needs to read this.
LUN

[Janet]

I wish they would quit showing Obama. I am so sick of him. Sick. Sick. Sick. Funny, I may need Obamacare because of Obama.
LOL Sue!!
Can you imagine in your own family saying, "It cost too much, I say we can't afford NOT to get this."?
Please, no one tell my daughter that line.

[Old Lurker]

Yes, C, last weekend that fine was $750 and is now $3,000. Last weekend the new tax on rents etc and gains was 2.9% and now 3.9%. Another week like this and we are all broke. Wonder what else is changing?

[Sue]

Janet,

We are truly living in Alice's Wonderland.

[glasater]

Sue--I'm equally as sick of seeing Zero's mug on TV as you are.

Elliott--there very well could be blood "poured" everywhere if this monstrosity of a bill/rule is passed.

[Old Lurker]

"Other suggestions?"

The increase in OT for current employees will move them unfairly into the winner's circle, while so so many others are denied access to jobs. That will, in the beginning, justify a surtax on OT income so that money can be transferred to the unfortunates. When that fails, then it will only be fair to limit all jobs to 35 hours per week and mandate six week vacations.

The rules are all there if you can translate from French.

[Clarice]

More details on what's happening with Stupak:
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NjQ5ZDU1NzA5NzI0MWVmZjM3ZDlhODI3MWY4ZjVhOTk=>Abortion hang up seems real

[Jim Ryan]

OL, the frog will die trying to get out of the pot before he accepts that.

More than half of Americans are by nature incapable of accepting tyranny. Millions will not cooperate with the health care plan. The Dems' encroachment will not go any further.

The only question is how this plays out. It doesn't move to tyranny because the people won't submit and law enforcement won't comply with the administration's orders. I don't know what happens but it won't be tyranny.

[Jim Ryan]

Stupak wants to force me to buy the insurance he has selected for me. He can stuff his insurance where the sun doesn't shine. He is a would-be tyrant.

[Janet]

What a wonderful miracle if it ends up being the unborn children that derail this thing. God working through the weakest!

[Sue]

You know what will happen to keep the number of employees under 50? New companies will be formed where one company has 25 employees and the other one has 25 employees. Easily done. In Texas, anyway. Lawyers and CPAs everywhere should be dancing in the streets as they work overtime to "hide" the numbers.

[Ignatz]

Well I've tried and failed twice to link a HotAir article concerning Judge McConnell's contention Slaughter is unconstitutional; so this time no linky.
He expands on his WSJ article from earlier. Trust me it's there. Go have a look.

[Ignatz]

The key he claims is not that 'deem and pass' is unconstitutional but that deem, pass and split is. Pretty compelling.

[Ann]

Ignatz: I'll try for you:

Former federal judge: Yes, the Slaughter strategy is unconstitutional

[Ignatz]

Here's the WSJ link to McConnell.

After all this no doubt somebody already linked it earlier.

[Ignatz]

Thank you Ann.
Frickin typepad.

[Barbara]

"What a wonderful miracle if it ends up being the unborn children that derail this thing. God working through the weakest!"

Janet, Great comment! That would be wonderful indeed.

[hit and run]

My Congressman just robo-called me to tell me he is fighting for me in Washington this week.

Go Howard Coble Go!

And he was using his outside voice. If I'm not mistaken,there was a vein popping out in his forehead when he was recording the message.

[hit and run]

Yes,I am that mean.

[RichatUF]

OL-

Don't give them anymore ideas?

Rick-

Pretty good list. I'd think that an increase in rents would feed into the cpi numbers and send an inflation impulse requiring a few interest rate increases. The medical equipment and devices tax would probably choke off those exports (too expensive for other countries to import for their health services {curious since Obama yammered on about doubling US exports in 5 years}).

Obama's Fairfax remarks for anyone interested.

[hit and run]

Oh,great. The order of a couple of posts is now in question. The mean post should not come before one that may be stuck in typepad hell.

If it gets posted,you'll understand. If not,then understand,it was mean.

[hit and run]

Let's try again...but this time in all caps and more exclamation marks...

NEW THREAD!!!!!!

[glasater]

From Reuters:

Immediate Healthcare Benefits?

My question mark.

[hit and run]

Made you look.

[narciso]

We were talking on the other thread, how measures like this, would in part make automation much more feasible, Of course SkyNet was raised, but one can add the replicants of Blade Runner, and the Chandlereque milieu of Caprica, needless to say it doesn't end well

[Old Lurker]

You're dreaming, Jim. More than 50% are on the receiving end of the straw already. Nearly 50% pay no income taxes at all. The great majority of the taxes are paid by only 20%, with most of those paid by 10%. Most soon to be legals come from south of the border from cultures steeped in the many being supported by the few. (Rodney Stark) Most even college educated young people have an incomplete and slanted sense of history and philosophy, if any at all. The WWII generation is about gone and my generation of boomers is the worst thing ever done to this country.

Until I witnessed the travesty unfolding before us, I was grumpy but optimistic. Now I'm just grumpy. And to Sue's observation above, I watched Obama at George Mason today and all I saw was a grainy black and white of Hitler messmerizing the masses in the 30's, with Pelosi, Reid et al playing the parts of the SS enforcers.

And I know that some of my friends here are not fans of Rand and Atlas Shrugged, but it is difficult to experience this train wreck today and not feel like we living in that novel.

[Clarice]

Stupak will be on with Greta tonight at 10. He said this afternoon Pelosi still did not have the votes.

[JeanD]

Hit, there is a difference between mean and right. You always seem to land on the side of right. It's not your fault that we enjoy your rightness.

Jim Ryan: my local 50,000 watt station played audio of your clip this a.m., and I heard it again this afternoon on Howie Carr's show. You rock, and I will happily share space with you in the "not going to comply zone."

Thanks to all who liked my letter! I won't post it anywhere, but if you want to chip and ship it, feel free. The only place I am sending it is to my waffling Stupak bloc rep, mostly because I think he is the only person I might sway at this point.

If I quit fighting, they win.

I don't intend to quit.

[narciso]

The "Dog Eat Dog" bill, the intrigues of Wesley Mouch and Cuffy Meigs, vs the efforts of Hank Rearden and Dagny Taggart, yes it all feels 'like deja vu all over again" as Yogi Berra would say.

Ironic, how 7 years ago, the US sought out to liberate a nation, yet now it seems well the
reverse is being inflicted upon us,

[Ignatz]

Here's a link to a post at Volokh by Johnathon Adler relating to McConnell's arguments.
Cboldt and MJW show up ably in comments.

[Jim Ryan]

But OL, law enforcement and the military will not cooperate. The national guard will not be made available. Half of the people who don't pay taxes still get it. They didn't choose not to pay taxes. They instinctively know it isn't right. They know tyranny is abominable and they can't be bought.

I still think over half of this country knows the taste of freedom and won't sacrifice it. You're only describing the 40% who are leftists and dolts.

Even if it's only 25% who still love liberty, law enforcement and the military will not point their guns at them.