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April 07, 2010

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PD

(CNN) -- When it comes to the Tea Party movement, the stereotypes don't tell the whole story.

Stereotypes that of course CNN has played no role in supporting.

PD

And let's not forget that the whole "teabagging" smear originated on CNN.

Captain Hate

CNN must be taking their pathetic ratings status seriously. Unfortunately the reporter, as well intentioned as he/she may have been, is still reporting the John Lewis crock as accepted fact.

Cecil Turner

Here's what you often see in the coverage of Tea Party rallies . . .

A more self-aware person might twig to the possibility the coverage was the issue. [Naaah.]

. . . still reporting the John Lewis crock as accepted fact.

Which tells you all you need to know about the "journalistic integrity" of CNN and its minions.

Ken Li

"racist rhetoric spewed"

Did CNN finally find some evidence of this? I can't wait to see the video.

Clarice

This is like the drowning swimmer taking his rescuer down along with him, isn't it? The press duly megaphones the Dem lies about the tea party--the citizenry ignores the slanders and joins up with the party and the press is now flailing about for some purchase beneath its feet to keep its head above the waves.

Jane

I'm trying to figure out why the media is suddenly hedging their bets. It can't be just ratings or they would have jumped on the Tea Party bandwagon a year ago.

Have they soured on Obama? Do they see a revolution coming?

Porchlight

Jane,

The Obama people might have finally tumbled to the idea that this stuff is hurting Obama more than it's hurting the Tea Party. Thus they're doing it to save both themselves and him.

anduril

The characterization of this video is obviously skewed, since the video itself shows that the US helicopter pilots and gunners somehow thought they were involved in a legitimate military action, however it's disturbing to wonder how many similar incidents may have occurred--how many objects besides cameras have been mistaken for AK-47's and RPG's.

Wikileaks Releases Video of US Choppers Slaying Reporters, Civilians

This is a long video (17 minutes) and is slow moving at the start, but it ends up being very informative and easy to follow, thanks to the transcript. For me it raises a lot of questions.

bgates

It looks like the closing part of the quote is meant to be a list of eight unequivocally positive things:
-Patriotic signs
-professing a love for country
-mothers and fathers
-with their children
-African-Americans
-proudly participating
-senior citizens
-bopping to a hip-hop rapper

So it's interesting to see the six things presented as the opposite of that happy picture:
-offensive posters
-blasting President Obama and Democratic leaders -racist rhetoric spewed
-a largely white, male audience
-angry protesters
-rallying around the Constitution

A parade of horribles, each worse than the last.

Tom Bowler

From the article:

Case in point: During the health care debate last month, opponents shouted racial slurs at civil rights icon Georgia Rep. John Lewis and one person spit on Missouri Rep. Emanuel Cleaver. The incidents made national headlines, and they provided Tea Party opponents with fodder to question the movement.

If I'm not mistaken, the $100,000 challenge is still on the table for anybody to pick up if they will only bring the video with the racial slurs and the spit.

I'd say CNN continues to actively promote the stereotype.

Thomas Collins

See LUN for a summary by Clarice in Pajamas Media of (i) the constitutionality of the individual mandate in ObamaCare, (ii) whether a finding that the individual mandate is unconstitutional would necessitate all of ObamaCare being struck down, (iii) issues with respect to who would have standing to challenge ObamaCare and when a court would view a challenge to ObamaCare as ripe for decision, and (iv) political considerations regarding a court's willingness to strike down ObamaCare. This is quite a remarkable article by Clarice. It summarizes in two pages the best of literally thousands of pages that have been written by scholars throughout the years on constitutional law, the federal courts and the federal system, and the political science field of courts, judges and politics.

anduril

Here's an explanation of the video:

The video shows the camera feed from an Apache helicopter gun ship as it performs an air strike on a group of men milling around an empty Baghdad street.

The video also shows the helicopter fire on a van which arrived at the scene and was attempting to evacuate the only visible survivor of the first attack. The attack wounded two children who were inside the vehicle.

Among those killed were Reuters photographer Namir Noor-Eldeen, 22, and his driver, Saeed Chmagh, 40.

WikiLeaks’ Web site states that it goes "to great lengths to verify the authenticity of the information it receives," and has "analyzed the information about this incident from a variety of source material." The New York Times confirmed with a senior military official that the footage was authentic.

In a statement released after the incident, Reuters said that its photographer and his driver "had gone to the area after hearing of a military raid on a building around dawn that day, and were with a group of men at the time. It is believed two or three of these men may have been carrying weapons, although witnesses said none were assuming a hostile posture."

"There had been reports of clashes between U.S. forces and insurgents in the area but there was no fighting on the streets in which Namir was moving about with a group of men," said the statement.

Some analysts believe this incident raises important questions about the U.S. military’s rules of engagement.

"The video appears to depict a case of confirmation bias by the American helicopter pilots," wrote Christopher Albon, a security analyst who blogs about armed conflict and public health on ConflictHealth.com.

"Confirmation bias is the tendency of the human mind to unconsciously prefer information reinforcing existing beliefs. In this case, the fact the pilots were looking for armed insurgents made them predisposed to believe that any item carried by the persons were weapons," Albon continued.

The footage appears to contravene earlier reports by military officials on the day of the attack which stated that U.S. forces had been engaged by a group of insurgents with small-arms fire and rocket-propelled grenades during a raid, causing them to return fire and call in air support.

Janet

**WARNING** The MSM is NEVER the friend of conservatism! They might run one "nice" article out of thousands but never forget that they are enemies of small government, personal responsibility, strong defense, lower taxes, strong families,...

Clarice

Thank you TC


Here's an article by Noemie Emery that I think is right on
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columns/Obamacare-predictions-were-way-off-90075197.html>Some predictions gone wrong

Danube of Thought

The footage appears to contravene earlier reports by military officials on the day of the attack

Not to me it doesn't.

Jane

The Obama people might have finally tumbled to the idea that this stuff is hurting Obama more than it's hurting the Tea Party. Thus they're doing it to save both themselves and him.

Gee Porch, I was so sure you were busy!

I await with rapt anticipation CNN turning the tea parties into a plus for Obama.

Charlie (Colorado)

Rule One: Don't go around carrying long cylindrical objects during a firefight.

Rule Two: Wear your big bright "press" tabards.

Rule Three: when the air is full of Apaches, don't wander around with armed men.

Charlie (Colorado)

That's also, by the way, a demonstration of why it's a war crime for fighters not to have a distinguishing uniform or something: when every enemy looks like a civilian, every civilian look like and enemy.

Clarice

Rule Four: When the streets are empty in Baghdad it is not because Costco is having a giant sale .

PDinDetroit

Gawd, even amma-dinner-jacket gets it:

"Mr. Obama, you are a newcomer (to politics). Wait until your sweat dries and get some experience. Be careful not to read just any paper put in front of you or repeat any statement recommended"

LUN

peter

thanks, tom Collins, for linking that great article at Pajamas by Clarice. I have printed it out and will read it at lunch. I always thought that Jonathan Turley was pretty much mainstream/center/left (I could be wrong about that.) If he thinks the obamacare monstrosity is unconstitutional, I have a little bit of hope.

Ignatz

--Here's an explanation of the video:--

And here is a better one from the real world that paleo cons and lefties no longer seem to inhabit:

I believe this by Bill Roggio was already linked yesterday to counter the slanders being repeated here, but it needs posting again obviously.

Dave (in MA)

">http://www.frostburg.edu/computing/fsualert/alert.gif"> Mr. Maguire:Please get rid of the racist garbage spewed by some leftwit in the previous thread.

bandit

Thank you Charlie - that is why the so called civilized rules of war were created - to protect civilians

Captain Hate

I always thought that Jonathan Turley was pretty much mainstream/center/left (I could be wrong about that.) If he thinks the obamacare monstrosity is unconstitutional, I have a little bit of hope.

Clarice and I have discussed Turley here before. He struck me as a pretty smart guy with a good deal of integrity during Slick's Monica problems. Following that his party invitations must've dried up and he must've felt he had to do some penance to get back in the good graces of the nits that populated the oxymoronic smart Washington set. Hopefully he's regained his mind as Clarice's article seems to indicate.

Ronald Reagan

Mr. Maguire:Please get rid of the racist garbage spewed by some leftwit in the previous thread.

You guys are asking for proof of racism in the health care debate while denying that it exists. I'm just honoring your request and offering up a counterfactual.


Yes, Bill Ves, calling from (inaudible) I ain't gonna get no health insurance, tell that son of a bitch that, I ain't getting the damned health insurance. That goddamned nigger, don't tell me I gotta get some goddamned health insurance. I ain't paying no goddamned fine. Tell that nigger he can come put my ass in jail if he don't like it. Goddamn worthless nigger, and all them other niggers that voted for him. That nigger Obama and them white trash honkies that voted for that damned communist, socialist stuff. Dumb motherfuckers, Goddamn! I ain't getting the goddamned mandatory health insurance from some bitch motherfuckers! Goddamn bunch of nigger,white trash honkies, sone of a bitch communist who voted for this shit. I didn't go fight in no goddamned wart so I could be forced to do something I don'[t want to do. So fuck all y'all niggers. Fuck you John Lewis, you goddamned worthless, communist nigger.

MayBee

RR - You are enjoying that word as much as Bill Ves did.

Rob Crawford

Just delete anything 'cleo posts, regardless of the name he's posting under.

Ranger

RR- Why didn't you get so worked up about racism in the Democratic party when Jessie Jackson used the same word?

http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/fnc/breaking_what_else_jesse_jackson_said_on_that_fnc_tape_89392.asp>Barack...he's talking down to black people...telling n—s how to behave.

Between Jessie and Robert Byrd (the former KKK leader and current sentior Democrat in the Senate) I'd say the Democratic leadership has a much more pronounced level of racists at the party leadership level.

Rob Crawford

Cleo thinks HIS use of "that word" somehow reflects on US.

Cleo's grasp on reality is tenuous, at best.

Ronald Reagan

much more pronounced level of racists at the party leadership level.

But Palin's father, Chuck Heath, gave a different account to Conroy and Walshe. According to him, the presence of so many Asians and Pacific Islanders made her uncomfortable: "They were a minority type thing and it wasn't glamorous, so she came home." In any case, Palin reports that she much preferred her last stop, the University of Idaho

Ronald Reagan

Cleo's grasp on reality is tenuous, at best.

Speaking of reality, I'm not cleo.

But feel free to continue thinking so; I know how ossified conservatives can become in their thinking and incorporating new information in your model of reality can be tough for you guys.

Ranger

Cleo, please keep it up. Just keep reminding all those people who thought that voting for Obama to usher in a post partisan and post racial America were actually voting for the exact opposite. The Dems can't win on their ideas, so they resort to calling anyone who disagrees a racist. It doesn't sell coming from the party of racebaters like Jackson and Sharpton.

Rob Crawford

Speaking of reality, I'm not cleo.

Really? Hard to tell the hate-filled, racist, cowardly trolls apart.

Maybe you should use your real name?

Jane

Please ignore cleo. He will escalate and then fade away.

Charlie (Colorado)

Speaking of reality, I'm not cleo.

Look up "synechdoche".

daddy

Well you do see racist rhetoric and vitriol spewed at those Tea Party Rallies---by the CNN reporters themselves. Remember Psycho">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wWQmFf-k7o">Psycho CNN Reporter Susan Roesgen?

Just FYI, was just awoken by a good earthquake up here. Went on about 10-15 seconds. Decent shaking, but doubt any big damage, and ReDoubt is still active.

Of further good news, last night we had an Election for new Assembly Members. Begich's hand picked Mayoral successor, who acted as acting Mayor until new Conservative Mayor Sullivan trounced him, ">http://www.adn.com/2010/04/06/1214960/polls-close-in-city-election-count.html"> got soundly beaten for re-election to the assembly by a Conservative that Sullivan campaigned for. So though it wasn't a perfect election, and sadly turnout was low, the mini Mark Begich got trounced. Claiman was instrumental in helping Begich push through those Union Contracts that secretly blew the City Budget 30-100 million into the hole, and Claiman also was instrumental in stopping any real outside investigation of Begich's actions in doing that. So that is something to be heartened by today.

Good Morning!

bgates

Bill Ves, you should be ashamed of yourself for using that kind of language and for posting under the name of a thoroughly decent man like Ronald Reagan. I think you should call Congressman Lewis back, too, and insult him properly:
Yes, Bill Ves, calling from (inaudible) I ain't gonna get no health insurance, tell that son of a bitch that, I ain't getting the damned health insurance. That goddamned Congressman, don't tell me I gotta get some goddamned health insurance. I ain't paying no goddamned fine. Tell that Congressman he can come put my ass in jail if he don't like it. Goddamn worthless Congressman, and all them other Congressmen that voted for him. That President Obama and them Congressmen that voted for that damned communist, socialist stuff. Dumb motherfuckers, Goddamn! I ain't getting the goddamned mandatory health insurance from some bitch motherfuckers! Goddamn bunch of Congressmen,Congressmen, sone of a bitch communist who voted for this shit. I didn't go fight in no goddamned wart so I could be forced to do something I don'[t want to do. So fuck all y'all Congressmen. Fuck you John Lewis, you goddamned worthless, communist Congressman.

You see, Bill, there's no cause to bring race into the argument. The problem isn't that John Lewis is African American. The problem is that he's a goddamned worthless, communist Congressman.

Charlie (Colorado)

I don't know what Palin felt like in Hawai'i, but my Eskimo relations in Alaska think rather highly of Palin and how she dealt with Native issues as Governor.

Danube of Thought

GOP 47%, Dems 38% on the Raz congressional generic ballot today.

Biblical proportions.

Ronald Reagan

The Dems can't win on their ideas, so they resort to calling anyone who disagrees a racist.

Steele may hold that position; not me.

While none of you guys are racist, you go one step further and claim that there are no racists in your party.

Which is nonsense.

anduril

Having reviewed the video again and compared it to Bill Roggio's comments, I think Roggio is off base.

Roggio states:

What you see is the air weapons team engaging armed men.

Second, note how empty the streets are in the video. The only people visible on the streets are the armed men and the accompanying Reuters cameramen. This is a very good indicator that there was a battle going on in the vicinity. Civilians smartly clear the streets during a gunfight.

Third, several of the men are clearly armed with assault rifles; one appears to have an RPG.

To begin with, the US officer on the audio states that there are 15-20 men, but clearly claims to have seen only two of them who are said to be carrying weapons. But the focus of the US Army video is on the two cameramen. None of the men around the two cameramen appear to be armed. This seems to be a clear case of "confirmation bias"--the two shoulder slung cameras are mistaken for two assault rifles. Roggio appears to be going with the audio and paying no attention to the video. I was unable, after multiple viewings, to identify any shoulder weapon (assault rifle, "AK-47" as stated on the audio).

As for the alleged RPG, the group of men with the cameramen are making for a streetcorner. None are carrying an RPG, which would be clearly visible--much bulkier than an assault rifle. As the video angle changes we see one of the men peering cautiously around the corner, apparently kneeling. There seems to be some other object protruding a few inches past the corner of the building, which the officer immediately identifies as an RPG, but which was almost certainly the telephoto camera lens--because as the video angle comes back around so that we can see the group (who are all standing around the cameramen and have backed off from the corner) we can clearly see that there are cameras and no weapons. It seems to me that the cameraman had tried to get a careful shot around the corner, while the others stood back to avoid stray bullets. There is no RPG.

Roggio goes on:

Fifth, critics will undoubtedly be up in arms over the attack on that black van you see that moves in to evacuate the wounded; but it is not a marked ambulance, nor is such a vehicle on the "Protected Collateral Objects" listed in the Rules of Engagement. The van, which was coming to the aid of the fighters, was fair game, even if the men who exited the van weren't armed.

Here's a problem. Roggio asserts that the van was coming to the aid of "fighers," but the video shows that there were no fighters--only unarmed civilians and two cameramen. So the people in the van were coming to the aid of unarmed civilians. Roggio does admit that the men who exit the van to come to the aid of the unarmed but wounded man--who is vainly attempting to crawl to safety but is anchored to the spot by his wounds--were both unarmed. The gunner opens fire not just on the van but on the two unarmed men carrying the unarmed wounded man, who are front and center in the video when the gunner opens fire. They are the primary target, after which the focus of fire shifts to the van itself as the angle of fire moves around to the front of the van. Roggio, of course, has to say that the van was coming to the aid of the imaginary "fighters," since civilians coming to the aid of civilians aren't "fair game".

Watch the video for yourselves. You will not see the alleged weapons.

Danube of Thought

One might begin by inquiring just what it was about that group of men that two Reuters people found so newsworthy that they elected to accompany them.

Good shooting, boys!

bgates

I'll admit part of my objection to ObamaCare is race-based. I don't care about anybody's skin color, but I admit I put the interests of myself and my fellow human beings above whatever Henry Waxman is. Is that wrong?

Ronald Reagan

Look up "synechdoche".

Look up "Dread Pirate Roberts"

Danube of Thought

only unarmed civilians

Where's the evidence that they were "civilians?" Are you under the impression that the fighters who regularly engaged in armed combat against US forces were going about in uniform?

Danube of Thought

Jane, what's the deal on the MA governor's race? When is the election, and if no one gets 50% do the two top finishers have a runoff?

Soylent Red

Pssst...

Rushing toward firefights in unmarked vehicles full of Arabs may be hazardous to your health.

In other news...

Sun rises in east today.

Soylent Red

I'll admit part of my objection to ObamaCare is race-based.

I don't hate Obama because he's half-black.

I hate him because he's all-Red.

Rob Crawford

Where's the evidence that they were "civilians?"

DoT, why are you letting the troll change subjects?

anduril

Some disturbing comments by JOMers. The US Army personnel mistakenly thought they were engaging armed combatants. There is no indication from their recorded remarks that they would have opened fire if they realized they were mistaken. The JOMers, knowing that this was a mistake, justify the shooting of civilians as civilians with justifications such as: they shouldn't have been there anyway!

Rule One: Don't go around carrying long cylindrical objects during a firefight.

Rule Two: Wear your big bright "press" tabards.

Rule Three: when the air is full of Apaches, don't wander around with armed men.

Posted by: Charlie (Colorado) | April 07, 2010 at 11:22 AM
Charlie (Colorado)

That's also, by the way, a demonstration of why it's a war crime for fighters not to have a distinguishing uniform or something: when every enemy looks like a civilian, every civilian look like and enemy.

Posted by: Charlie (Colorado) | April 07, 2010 at 11:24 AM
Clarice

Rule Four: When the streets are empty in Baghdad it is not because Costco is having a giant sale .

One might begin by inquiring just what it was about that group of men that two Reuters people found so newsworthy that they elected to accompany them.

Good shooting, boys!

Posted by: Danube of Thought | April 07, 2010 at 12:49 PM

Corrections:

1. The cameras weren't long cylindrical objects, they were short stumpy objects.

2. The cameramen were clearly not in the company of armed men--watch the video. They were all unarmed.

3. When the enemy masquerades as civilians, it does not become OK to shoot civilians. When people are unarmed and dressed in civilian clothing, they are presumed to be civilians.

4. When the only people visible on a street are unarmed civilians they are not fair game just because the streets are otherwise empty.

5. There is nothing suspicious about cameramen being in the company of unarmed men, and it's not OK to shoot them.

Danube of Thought

Roggio, of course, has to say that the van was coming to the aid of the imaginary "fighters,"

Why does he "have to" say that unless he believes it to be true?

boris

The Elfin Blade from Lord of the Rings should get together with Dread Pirate Roberts from Princess Bride and start their own blog.

Dave (in MA)

DoT, the MA gubernatorial election is the same day that the Donks lose control of Congress. Primary day is 9/14. Charlie Baker (R) is outspending his opponents by a fair margin. Howie Carr-probably the best friend that Christy Mihos (R) has in the media-mentioned yesterday that he wasn't even able to get Mihos to call him back. I figure he probably won't even be around for the primary. I'm not sure what to make of this Ras poll.

Soylent Red

**sigh**

Time to edit trollblocker script again...

Danube of Thought

Here's a WSJ article re the MA governor's race; the election is in November. No indication of what happens in a three-way.

Soylent Red

And just like that JOM smells better...

anduril

More disturbing JOMer comments:

Where's the evidence that they were "civilians?" Are you under the impression that the fighters who regularly engaged in armed combat against US forces were going about in uniform?

Posted by: Danube of Thought | April 07, 2010 at 12:58 PM

Rushing toward firefights in unmarked vehicles full of Arabs may be hazardous to your health.

In other news...

Sun rises in east today.

Posted by: Soylent Red | April 07, 2010 at 01:03 PM

1. Civilians aren't required to present evidence that they are civilians. The fact that they are unarmed and are in civilian attire is evidence enough and entitles anyone to an initial presumption of civilian status. The US Army does NOT train its combatants to shoot anyone who fails to present "evidence" of civilian status. Rather, they look for evidence that persons encountered are OTHER THAN civilian.

2. Being an Arab is not evidence that one is an enemy combatant--especially not in a major Arab inhabited metropolitan center. Nor does the fact that American armed forces have opened fire on unarmed civilians somehow magically transform a peaceful gathering into a firefight.

The irrationality, closemindedness and outright callousness on display here is very disturbing. More disturbing, perhaps, than the video.

Danube of Thought

There is nothing suspicious about cameramen being in the company of unarmed men, and it's not OK to shoot them.

Depends on the time and place. And it sure as hell is OK to shoot them. Good riddance. Too bad about the reporters, but they knew the risks they were taking.

Danube of Thought

When the only people visible on a street are unarmed civilians they are not fair game just because the streets are otherwise empty.

They're combatants, and they are indeed fair game. You don't like it, that's tough.

MaryW

Soylent Red

Try killfile instead. You can immediately kill a troll and if you want to see the offending comment you can choose to read it. I use Trollblocker for all those I never want to see again and killfile for immediate disinfection.

Rob Crawford

DoT:

1) Ignore it. It's a troll.

2) You're letting him get away declaring them "unarmed". They weren't -- they were visibly armed in the helicopter footage.

3) Ignore it. It's a troll.

Danube of Thought

The irrationality, closemindedness and outright callousness on display here is very disturbing. More disturbing, perhaps, than the video.

I take great joy in disturbing you--you're an asshole.

Clarice

Consider as though you walked thru a police barrier during a shoot out. The police are doing their jobs,their adrenaline is pumping, you are interfering with clear knowledge you are putting yourself in harm's way and and interfering with their mission.

If the cops got pissed and deliberately shot you knowing you were not an evildoer that would be one thing..but under the circumstances they have no way of knowing and their conduct does not constitute "murder".

And now for Jane a little sherbet:


Viagra for Sex Offenders
in Healthcare Law
Human Events, by Connie Hair
A Congressional Research Service analysis says that the new healthcare law would allow for sex offenders to receive taxpayer-funded erectile-dysfunction drugs like Viagra. The report from the non-partisan agency vindicated Sen. Tom Coburn (R-Okla.) who had been a leader in the fight against passage of the government takeover of healthcare. (Snip) One of Coburn’s amendments that was defeated by the Democratic-controlled Senate would have prevented sex offenders from receiving taxpayer funded drugs like Viagra.

boris

Screen shots at Jawa show what credibly appear to be weapons.

Also "confirmation bias" is more like people who see confirmation of global warming everywhere they look. What you seem to be refering to is the role expectation plays in perception.

anduril


Roggio, of course, has to say that the van was coming to the aid of the imaginary "fighters,"

Why does he "have to" say that unless he believes it to be true?

Posted by: Danube of Thought | April 07, 2010 at 01:08 PM

It's clear that Roggio comes to this issue determined to deny that anything untoward happened. With regard to the van, if the unmarked van were rushing to the aid of unarmed civilians, it would not be fair game. It was only under the (false) assumption that the unmarked van was being used to give support to enemy combatants that it became fair game.

Again, watch the video. It is quite clear that the men were unarmed--no AK-47's or RPG's, just cameras. This was "confirmation bias," a mistake. It nevertheless raises troubling questions about how we conduct warfare. Roggio's ability to believe something that is untrue, even when the facts are presented to him on video, is also troubling.

Frau Harmlos

I thought Ronnie (Skip) had retired from public life and failed careers to enjoy the coffee and climate of the Seattle area. He always was a disgrace to his parents even if they didn't show it. Now he visits harmless blog sites to skew statistics of racists words for MediaMatters.

Clarice

boris--Have i told you lately that i love you?

boris

Ditto Clarice.

Soylent Red

Yes, Bill Ves, calling from (inaudible) I ain't gonna get no health insurance, tell that son of a bitch that, I ain't getting the damned health insurance. That goddamned nigger, don't tell me I gotta get some goddamned health insurance. I ain't paying no goddamned fine. Tell that nigger he can come put my ass in jail if he don't like it. Goddamn worthless nigger, and all them other niggers that voted for him. That nigger Obama and them white trash honkies that voted for that damned communist, socialist stuff. Dumb motherfuckers, Goddamn! I ain't getting the goddamned mandatory health insurance from some bitch motherfuckers! Goddamn bunch of nigger,white trash honkies, sone of a bitch communist who voted for this shit. I didn't go fight in no goddamned wart so I could be forced to do something I don'[t want to do. So fuck all y'all niggers. Fuck you John Lewis, you goddamned worthless, communist nigger.

Clarice

What is the last post purportedly posted by Soylent but actually a quote of RR's post doing here?

Clarice

Since my pistolas aren't enough to clear out the saloon, I'm going to get my cannon.

Jane

Jane, what's the deal on the MA governor's race? When is the election, and if no one gets 50% do the two top finishers have a runoff?

Baker should win, but we have Cahill, the democrat treasurer who is running as an independent splitting the vote - as you can see in Dave's RAS poll.

Patrick is out on his charm offensive with Axelrod and Plouffe phoning in help. Tim Murray, Patrick's LT Gov is truly the biggest asshole I've ever met in politics.

If Cahill doesn't drop out, it is jump ball. I'm going to a Baker fundraiser tonite. If he talks about it, I'll report back.

Jane

Clarice,

I'd advise a nuke - except they are no longer allowed.

Charlie (Colorado)

Bob Owens has something up at PJM with more to come.

MayBee

I told you he loves loves loves saying it. Loves saying it, typing it, putting it in nice bold letters so he can find it on the page easily.
Most people don't want anything to do with that word, but it is like the song of the Sirens to RR.

Dave (in MA)

What a pathetic leftwit turd.

Dave (in MA)

Jane, Cadillac '06 was Beta for Jughead '08. Ax is probably still planning on the same sort of roll-out for the '12 campaign.

Rob Crawford

What is the last post purportedly posted by Soylent but actually a quote of RR's post doing here?

It's cleo. Either in particular (and playing the stupid "I have a different name so it's not me" game) or in general, as Charlie pointed out.

What a pity the cowards haven't the balls to post that kind of crap with their real names behind it.

Clarice

Here's a fun take just for this thread.
http://iowntheworld.com/blog/?p=21015

boris

Charlie ... spell check fail ...

Political language is designed to make likes sounds truthful

Should be "lies" ?

anduril

boris, I reviewed the material at Jawa.

The video clip ("created by Ryno"--who's he?): it appears to me to show a man in a group who is carrying an RPG. Unfortunately, JAWA doesn't state at what point in the helicopter video that sequence appears. I can't remember seeing it. OTOH, the video that I saw is the 17 minute version, not the 38 minute version. I'll be very mad if that was edited out.

The RPG that was found, here's what the report says:

We remained above the engagement site while Bushmaster sent ground forces to the site. Bushmaster arrived and reported 11 x AIF KIA and found RPGs and RPG rounds at the site. We also witnessed a loaded RPG lying 2-3 blocks south of the engagement site.

The video doesn't show multiple RPG's, nor does it show RPG's being fired. That is absolutely clear. There is only one RPG alleged to have been seen, and that only moments before the helicopter opened fire. There is one RPG shown in the uncorrelated video excerpt. The loaded RPG was found 2-3 blocks from the site, so that was clearly not brought to the site by the 11 KIA's.

The still shot looks pretty clearly to show the cameras, shoulder slung. I will agree that the other object could be an AK-47 carried by one hand by a separate individual, although it's very unclear.

Thomas Collins

I don't think there is a runoff in Mass. So Deval could, say, win a 35-33-31 victory (I'm giving the Greens and others 1 percent).

Meanwhile, on the PC front, Duke is in the news again. See LUN (via Dr. Helen via Instapundit).

Clarice

tc--That is an hilarious post by Dr Helen..I just blogged it. (I am a supporter of FIRE and if anyone finds a few shekels laying about they could use your help.)

Cecil Turner

The footage appears to contravene earlier reports by military officials on the day of the attack which stated that U.S. forces had been engaged by a group of insurgents with small-arms fire and rocket-propelled grenades during a raid, causing them to return fire and call in air support.

It does? Why, then, does the video start in mid-sentence (i.e., "this location and there's more that keep walking by and one of them has a weapon")? Could it be the "location" refers to the force that had been engaged? Who is that masked man on the other end of the radio, anyway?

In any event, the video clearly shows at least two individuals with weapons, one with what looks to be an AK-47, another with something longer (either an RPG or something similar). They do appear to misidentify the cameraman as an RPG shooter, but IMHO that's the breaks of embedding with insurgents. This memorial to the slain journalist makes it clear he was most likely doing precisely that.

According to him, the presence of so many Asians and Pacific Islanders made her uncomfortable:

And that's proof she's racist? Ever been to Hawaii? You like beef, Haole boy?

Clarice

First request for injunctive relief against Obamacare filed today

he Thomas More Law Center has filed a motion for a preliminary injunction on the enforcement of the individual mandate provision of the newly enacted health care reform act, the Ann Arbor-based law firm announced Tuesday.

It was filed in a federal district court. The government has 21 days to respond. The basis for the lawsuit and the motion is that Congress exceeded its authority under the Constitution by mandating that private citizens purchase health care coverage or face a penalty, according to the press release.

"If Congress can use the Commerce Clause to force people to purchase insurance based on the mere fact that they exist or face federal penalties, then there is no limit to the power of Congress," said Richard Thompson, president and chief Counsel for TMLC
http://www.michigancapitolconfidential.com/12470

Cecil Turner

Unfortunately, JAWA doesn't state at what point in the helicopter video that sequence appears. I can't remember seeing it. OTOH, the video that I saw is the 17 minute version, not the 38 minute version.

Watch it again, this time paying attention to the boys on top of the screen at ~3:45 into the vid. That's the two I was referring to above (and after looking at the Ryno version, I'd say it's clear the longer weapon is an RPG).

Jane

WOw - I'm clearly omniscient.

MA doesn't have a run off I don't think. Winner take all and all that.

Clarice

More states fighting Obamacare!

MIAMI, April 7 (Reuters) - Five more U.S. states are joining a Florida-led group of states in a lawsuit challenging President Barack Obama's overhaul of the U.S. healthcare system, Florida's attorney general said on Wednesday. The joint lawsuit led by Florida and now grouping 18 states was filed on March 23 by mostly Republican attorney generals. It claims the sweeping reform of the $2.5 trillion U.S.healthcare system, pushed through by Democrats in the U.S. Congress after months of bitter partisan fighting, violates state-government rights in the U.S. Constitution and will force massive new spending on hard-pressed state governments.

Soylent Red

"[F]or the eight years I was president," Reagan wrote in his memoirs, "I never let my dream of a nuclear-free world fade from my mind."

Cecil Turner

Screen shots at Jawa show what credibly appear to be weapons.

Thanks Boris. I'd pretty much had the same interpretation from watching the video, but that makes it a lot more distinct.

What I hadn't seen (and would heartily recommend) is the link on the same page ("Case Closed") with supporting info and the investigation. (And they nailed the particulars, right down to the aircrew misidentifying the camera as an RPG.) Bottom line: righteous shoot.

anduril

OK, another review of the video and I think I can see what happened. If you go to the 3-4 minute range you'll see everything relevant.

As the video begins (it may be just before the 3 minute mark) you here the audio and they're talking about "all those people" and that "one of them has a weapon." Moments later the speaker estimates "20 of them," one of whom has a weapon.

As the video closes in you see the two cameramen walking down the middle of the street. Now look to the left and you'll see a small group of maybe 2-4 guys hanging around the side of the street. Just after the cameramen go past them the ID of weapons is called out. The image resolves into two guys with assault rifles dangling down. They seem separate from the many others passing by. The gunmen were in position when the cameramen came by and they stayed back.

As the cameramen and the group with them go forward toward the corner and the focus shifts to them (because they're approaching line of sight with a Humvee down the street) the voice says, "that's a weapon, too." I believe he's talking about the cameras, on which they're now focusing. At about that point the voice claims 5-6 guys with weapons and requests permission to engage, which is granted. However, they're not in position to engage yet.

As the helicopter shifts to get in position they're still relaying what they see. What happens is that one of the cameramen kneels at the corner of the building and takes a photo down the street to his left--the recovered camera's last photo is of just that shot--just as the helicopter point of view shifts to facing the cameraman's front. It's at this point that the voice says: "Is that an RPG?" What he's seeing is the camera poking around the corner--it's very clearly a camera when you know what you're looking at, although you can understand the mistake. The transcript erroneously reports this as "He's got an RPG" but it's actually a question if you listen, which is picked up by another voice: "OK we've got an RPG."

The helicopter keeps circling for position but now the target is not the original group of gunmen, (who may have followed the cameramen at a distance--look for the shirt patterns). Now the focus is on the group with the cameramen, who are believed to have an RPG--an immediate threat to the Humvee down the street. As that group becomes visible, the helicopter opens fire as the men stand clustered around the cameramen. There is no RPG visible, but they're already convinced that they're witnessing an ambush being set up and don't have time to wait. They're totally keyed up on saving the Humvee (which they can see from up above, but is not visible on the video).

OK.

Obviously this illustrates how things get exaggerated and misreported. I identified two weapons, but because of the cameras the weapon count shot up to 5-6, including an RPG. It also illustrates the risk that the cameramen were taking.

Two things that still bother me. It's not clear how the helicopter gunners would have reacted if the weapons count hadn't erroneously escalated. Much more importantly, as the ground troops raced to the scene, it is disturbing to see the helicopter gun down three very clearly unarmed men, one of them unable to walk.

I still don't see the RPG that is visible in the Ryno-edited clip.

narciso the harpoon

i think only a plasma rifle in the forty watt range, will do the proper thing, nuke causes too much collateral damage. So, anduril, you're going to take the side of the dhimmi press, which is indistinguishable
from Al Jazeera. I trust Roggio and Yon, three times over any other comparable source

Conroy and Walshe apocryphal anecdote, is not to be trusted in so far as their little piece of agitprop, Sarah from Alaska, imports as many long debunked insinuation
as the printing press could bear, including
her refusing to campaign with pro choicers
(Snowe and Specter would be surprised at that) and the 'catatonic' impressions relayed by Wallace and Co. The cardinal rule if the statement, impression seems
out of character like that Maverick flap
chances are, it's not true

anduril
Watch it again, this time paying attention to the boys on top of the screen at ~3:45 into the vid. That's the two I was referring to above (and after looking at the Ryno version, I'd say it's clear the longer weapon is an RPG).

Posted by: Cecil Turner | April 07, 2010 at 02:23 PM

OK, Cecil, got it. Those are the two guys I thought each had assault rifles, but I agree--from that angle it's clear to me that one of them has an RPG. The helicopter guys missed that, and mistook the camera for an RPG instead.

And if you follow their movements (the two armed guys, one of them has a darker patterned shirt) I believe they go to join the corner group. It looks like the photogs may have taken a "before" picture and that the guy with the RPG is coming up to take a shot at the Humvee. The rest are probably spectators out for some fun. Case closed.

Captain Hate

Meanwhile, on the PC front, Duke is in the news again. See LUN (via Dr. Helen via Instapundit).

For all the people that cheered against Duke Monday night, be aware that them winning the championship chafed the Gang of 88 as much as when the North Carolina Attorney General absolved the lacrosse players of any wrongdoing. I took a stroll over to Durham in Wonderland and saw that the fired lacrosse coach won an out of court settlement for some gratuitous badmouthing of him by Brodhead's toadies which I'm sure contained a monetary award. That Brodhead has stayed in place throughout all his demonstrated mismanagement is a tribute to the bureaucratic stasis and lethargy in colleges and universities; I'm wondering when the Board of Trustees is going to push back from draining the endowment funds to cover the asses of those idiots and when it becomes a violation of their fiduciary responsibility. The alumni have to be getting severely peeved.

Charlie (Colorado)

I take great joy in disturbing you--you're an asshole.

+1

Charlie (Colorado)

The alumni have to be getting severely peeved.

+1 (from an alum)

Charlie (Colorado)

Boris, good catch, I just fixed it.

Jack is Back!

Anduril,

You obviously want to believe what WikiLeaks wants you to believe but they have now indicated that they didn't show all the video and were aware of the RPG and the AK-47 all a long. By the way, since you are such an expert in interpreting photo and video footage what was your MOS? It has to be 1N1X1 in order for you to be so confident. If not, then leave it to the pro's at Air and Defense Intelligence's Imagery Analysis who have already concluded that this was a justifiable combat action.

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Wilson/Plame