Birthers Verus The Electoral College

Here is an interesting wrinkle from Arizona which may have a serious Constitutional impediment:

PHOENIX -- The Arizona House on Monday voted for a provision that would require President Barack Obama to show his birth certificate if he hopes to be on the state's ballot when he runs for reelection.

The House voted 31-22 to add the provision to a separate bill. The measure still faces a formal vote.

It would require U.S. presidential candidates who want to appear on the ballot in Arizona to submit documents proving they meet the constitutional requirements to be president.

Who asked them?  The US Constitution does not specify an enforcement mechanism for the "natural born" requirement, but it is clear that the good people of the great state of Arizona will not be voting for Barack Obama in the 2012 general election.  Instead, they will be voting for electors who will cast their votes as per the procedures of the Electoral College.

In Arizona, Presidential electors must themselves meet eligibility requirements, but they are aligned by party, not specific candidate:

A. The chairman of the state committee of a political party which is qualified for representation on an official party ballot at the primary election and accorded a column on the general election ballot shall appoint candidates for the office of presidential elector equal to the number of United States senators and representatives in Congress from this state and shall file for each candidate with the secretary of state, not less than ninety days or more than one hundred twenty days before the primary election, by 5:00 p.m. on the last day for filing:

1. A nomination paper giving the candidate's actual residence address or description of place of residence and post office address, naming the party of which the candidate desires to become a candidate, stating his candidacy for the office of presidential elector, stating the exact manner in which the candidate desires to have his name printed on the official ballot pursuant to section 16-311, subsection G, and stating the date of the general election at which he desires to become a candidate.

2. An affidavit including facts sufficient to show that the candidate resides in this state and will be qualified at the time of the election to hold the office of presidential elector.

B. The nomination paper and affidavit of qualification pursuant to subsection A of this section shall be printed in a form prescribed by the secretary of state.

They can't disqualify the whole Democratic Party, can they?

Well, maybe - give lawyers a place to rest their fulcrum and they will move the word.  Or sue it.

And they may be able to bar Obama from the state primary election although even that is not immediately obvious - it may be that even in the primary, voters choose slates of Arizonans committed to various Presidential candidates rather than the candidates themselves.

Tricky.  My belief is that it is the US Congress, under the 12th Amendment, that enforces the "natural born" requirement by accepting or rejecting the results of the Electoral College.  I am sure a state could not impose its own eligibility requirements beyond those of the Constitution, but I am hazy as to whether a state would have some right to independently verify Constitutional eligibility to assure that their electors' votes are not being "wasted".

As to the specific question of Obama's birth - geez, presumably they want the long form birth certificate that includes a hospital and an attending physician, not just the summary short form declaring Obama was born in Honolulu.  The obvious problem is that the more extensive documentation backing the short form (held by the Hawaii Dept. of Health, and which would be made available at Obama's request) may not *prove* anything. 

Far and away the most likely result is that we learn that official state records indicate Obama was born at "Kapiolani Maternity and Gynecological Hospital, now called Kapi'olani Medical Center for Women & Children".  For a lot of people, that would settle it; for some, it will simply be evidence that a particular form was generated back in 1961, not that an actual birth took place when and where the form states.

And the long shot is that the supporting documentation is simply affidavits from Obama's mother and maternal grandparents asserting that he was born in Hawaii at their home (maybe the car wouldn't start so she couldn't get to the hospital.)  Again, that might well be the truth, but it might not be the "proof" some people are looking for.

Next, I suppose people could search State Department records from 1961 to see whether there is a record of Stanley Dunham leaving the country and returning after Obama's reported birth.  If those records cannot be found, is that "proof" that Obama was born in the US, a suggestion of incomplete paperwork, or a hint that Rahm Emmanuel is now doing what needs to be done?  No, I am not sure where this ends...

However, if Arizona can persuade Team Obama to ask for and release the complete file and shut a few people up, I am all for it.  Maybe we can look forward to a respectful Times story detailing their search for "the truth".  OK, probably not.  Meanwhile, the most transparent Administration in history is either fueling partisan rancor for their own benefit or hiding something.

Comments

[Clarice]

Hiding something I think--but not the place of his birth..I think the name of the father or lack of one on the form.

[hit and run]

No fair bringing this up after DoT has left for Virginia for three days.

He loves loves loves talking about the birth certificate issue.

[Cecil Turner]

I am sure a state could not impose its own eligibility requirements beyond those of the Constitution, but I am hazy as to whether a state would have some right to independently verify Constitutional eligibility to assure that their electors' votes are not being "wasted".

I've long ago given up trying to predict how SCOTUS will resolve constitutional questions (especially after the completely incoherent belligerent rights rulings in Hamdan, Hamdi, et al). But a plain reading of Article II Section 1 seems to give enormous leeway to the state legislatures:

Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors . . . [emphasis added]

As to why we're rehashing this stupidity at this late date, I don't know what I find more irritating: the Obama camp's ridiculous reluctance to provide basic documentation; or the birthers' legal maneuverings to resettle a done deal.

And seriously folks, would any birther want to win this one? A quick gander at the succession list shows Biden, Pelosi, Byrd, Clinton, Geithner . . . with Gates down there at number 6 the first person who doesn't induce an immediate involuntary shudder at the thought (and I'm no big fan of his, either). Thanks . . . but no thanks. Time to leave this one alone.

[Clarice]

"A quick gander at the succession list"--that always does it for me, too, Cecil.

[Ignatz]

--No fair bringing this up after DoT has left for Virginia for three days.--

He said he'd be checking in via phone, H&R, so I expect some mangled curses shortly, as large fingers contact small buttons.

[Rich Berger]

He is BHO the II? Or should it be junior? And why doesn't he use II - gives him that regal quality he likes.

[Thomas Collins]

See LUN for the applicable constitutional provision (this version also includes the provision prior to the changes made by the 12th Amendment).

I agree with TM that the Congressional certification procedure is the final authority. However, I think what certain folks in Arizona are proposing is well within a state's power to regulate the manner of choosing electors.

I myself wish the whole birther issue would go away. If the issue redounds to anyone's benefit, in my opinion, it is Obama and the Dems who benefit from this issue being raised. My view on the birther matter notwithstanding, I believe it would be incredible overreach for a federal court to hold that the proposed procedure is invalid.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

I suspect Cecil's argument is fairly strong -- if Obama wants AZ electors, he has to file as a candidate. If he doesn't file, there's no D candidate. The AZ electors go to another candidate.

[MarkO]

My recollection of DoT's position is that all lawsuits on this issue are losers. That said, Obama's behavior here suggests there is something he does not want uncovered. Likely it would interfere with the personal narrative he has invented.

It stuns me that no one has been able to get this. Why is that? Are the bribes to stingy?

[Janet]

Well the Senate voted on John McCain's eligibility didn't they? He produced his birth certificate.
The whole "Obama package" is a production. Marketing, logo, never ending sound track,...
Ask questions about any part of his life and you are a "birther".
I appreciate any effort that tries to make sure constitutional requirements are followed.
I root for any group that is digging into Obama's background, and I wish them well.

[Rob Crawford]

As Cecil points out, the Constitution lets the states decide how the electors are chosen. Beyond that, I think it's critical that we start actually REQUIRING this kind of documentation, just to shut up the arguments.

[Rob Crawford]

Well the Senate voted on John McCain's eligibility didn't they? He produced his birth certificate.

Yeah, but he's not The Won, the Lightbringer, our Lord, Savior, and Master.

(Bleah. Now I need something to get that taste out of my mouth.)

[Thomas Collins]

Forgive me for going OT so early in the thread, but see LUN for an example of racism potentially inhibiting a person's career. Small chance that our elite will worry about racism in this context.

[Janet]

...and I've pretty much come to the conclusion that if the MSM mocks, derides, belittles, & hates a group...then I am usually for that group. Tea Party, Palin fan, Christian, Pro-life, Conservative, Rush listener, hunter, military supporter,...even smokers! So Go birthers, Go! (as opposed to the "Grow rhubard, Grow!" crowd)

[ed]

This is a loser for the Dems - either Obummer produces a birth cert (phony or otherwise) and reasonable moderates are angry at him for wasting time, energy, millions and being deceitful for no apparent reason; or he doesn't, and he's done.

[peter]

It's a big head fake, folks. Every con artist, sorcerer and grifter knows the beauty of misdirection. Let's see his transcripts from college!

[squaredance]

Well the Birth Certificate no doubt lists him as a Muslim.
What is of more concern, however, is the complete stonewalling about his entire adult life: College transcripts, the record at the HLS etc.

It is absurd for a POTUS to have such a shady, hidden past. It shows us just how much contempt the Democrats have for America and her citizens.

[Janet]

well peter, if you ask to see his college transcripts you are also a birther. I don't know why, but it is so.

[Jane]

So now Arizona is a "birther state"? Who said this didn't have legs.

Altho I think it is a loser issue, I'd prefer Joe Biden to be president over Obama. He's just as incompetent, but I don't think he is quite as socialist.

[Captain Hate]

Small chance that our elite will worry about racism in this context.

The idiocy that goes into the NFL draft is a hodge-podge of spurious correlations that lead to hilariously wrong decisions like Ryan Leaf drafted highly and Tom Brady languishing until the 6th round; not to mention the league whiffing completely on Kurt Warner. The only "racism" claims that goofs like Roger Goodell care about are completely erroneously reported ones regarding Rush Limbaugh, whose foolishness in wanting to be part of such a group of "elite" idiots I've previously disparaged.

[Warren Bonesteel]

So, the right is still promoting the left's narrative for them, eh?

Guess where the term "Birther" originated? Gee. I wonder which party uses ad homs and has a reason to keep their political opposition divided?

Hint: Pro-Constitution, small government Americans are on YOUR side.

Idiots...

[Terry Gain]

Far and away the most likely result is that we learn that official state records indicate Obama was born at ...

In a free and democratic society (and in a republic) the birthplace of a President should be a certainty, not a matter of speculation, informed or otherwise. Not subjecting this President to reasonable scrutiny has been a huge mistake. He is not reasonably constrained.

[Terry Gain]

He's just as incompetent, but I don't think he is quite as socialist.

And not nearly as insufferable.

[Observation]

I think we will someday learn that The One's mother gave up his citizenship when she married an Indonesian and took The Little One to a foreign country. She had no affection for the U.S. it's clear, so her baby's citizenship wouldn't be a sticking point for her. Then The One may have gotten $ as a foreign student when he went to college. The One is hiding something. I doubt that it's illegitimacy because that would make a great talking point to win him more sympathizers and admirers -- it's probably ineligibility and the longer he hides it the more intense the hunt is going to be for the truth.

[peter]

Janet, I actually heard Michael Medved on the radio the other day tell a caller that Obama's college and law school transcripts have been released.
We know he did not take baseball for his phys ed requirement. See LUN for an old article at Politico which creates quite a bit of narrative from remarkably little source material.

[Terry Gain]

It's a big head fake, folks. Every con artist, sorcerer and grifter knows the beauty of misdirection. Let's see his transcripts from college!

Wow. Thanks for the heads up. I had assumed we could do both.

[Lonni]

I'm not so sure of the succession issue if Obama is outed. Wouldn't the whole election be considered null and void? That would take out Biden. Then, all of Obamas appointments, EOs, treaties etc. would be voided so that takes out Clinton. That leaves Pelosi but I think the outcry would be so horrendous that she would demur for her own sake. That leaves who? Who knows! None of this will be settled during Obamas term but he won't have a second one and I think he is already prepared for that. He's made statements concerning how "I’d rather be a really good one-term president than a mediocre two-term president,” No doubt he will see that work out for him.

[Rob Crawford]

So, the right is still promoting the left's narrative for them, eh?

So, Boner still thinks people give a rip about what passes for his thoughts, eh?

[bgates]

I wonder which party uses ad homs

Later that same post:

Idiots...

It's ok when we use it, Warren. I'm a birther, an academic transcripter, a languishing in the U of Ill archives fileser, a Trinity Church bulletiner, a New Party recordser, and a ghost writerer.

And I wouldn't mind having a few hours with Tony Rezko and/or the 1991 HLS class and a couple of gallons of sodium pentathol, either.

[Clarice]

Let me be your handmaiden in that experiment, bgates. (First Chaco and I are going to infiltrate the SEC cafeteria.)

[bgates]

I guess I should add that I'm sort of a "weak birther", in that I think Barry was born in Hawaii, to Stanley Ann Dunham and a black guy.

[matt]

there is an amazingly thin file of verifiable facts on Obama's personal history. from Hawaii to Occidental to Columbia to Harvard to the Annenberg Challenge, there has been a coverup of massive proportion.

So much of the suspicion could be erased with a simple disclosure of these facts. So why are they still covered up? Where there's smoke, there's almost certainly some fire. It simply doesn't pass the smell test.

[MarkO]

There is something creepy about the fact that there is almost no corroborating evidence for Obama's life story. It seems extremely odd for someone who has already written two autobiographies.

Those facts suggest the absence of information is deliberate and contrived. It's not just the birth certificate, although some see that as a home run.

Someone, somewhere could write a book on this, after investigation, and retire.

[Boatbuilder]

What? I have been repeatedly told by various and sundry informed sources (including just about the entire MSM and numerous clean toga club Republicans) that Obama produced "the birth certificate" and a photograph of a copy was reviewed by Factcheck.org and pronounced to be a photograph of a copy of something that the Hawaii Department of Health says is a summary of something else, so why are you asking and shut up.

Could I possibly be misinformed on this point?

(Note--I am on record as saying after the election that I think a challenge to Obama's legitimacy as President based on the birth certificate issue would be very bad for Republicans and bad for the country. I just don't like being told to ignore the obvious evidence that something is being wilfully concealed--or the argument that one must be a lunatic-racist-wingnut-etc.-to even think that a legitimate question has been raised).

[Boatbuilder]

Also for the record I thought the Supreme Court was wrong to allow the Paula Jones civil lawsuit to proceed against Billyboy while he was POTUS . . . Why don't they ask me for advice on these things?

[Mustang0302]

Clarice,

I thoroughly enjoyed your Aeroflot memoir! I thought I had some good stories about Iran Air in and out of Tehran and Isfahan during the Hajj around the tail end of the Shah's reign; heck, I had it good...Boeing aircraft, British crews, good looking women, good chow...some of those, uh, pilgrims, OTOH, made the trips interesting, to say the least!

Thanks again, sorry I didn't notice it sooner, I just ran across it earlier today!

[babyshower]

Congress really can't certify because they already did when he became a Congressman. He was a natural born American then. The Supreme court already looked at the issue when it was brought up that his dad was an informant and granted privileges back when he was born by CIA. It doesn't mater if he was born in the US because Congress and the Supremos already granted his privileges, regardless of whether he wants to be honest or not.

Hawaii also has a law that you are natural born if you immigrate there within like two years or something, so he's set there too.

O can only say he didn't know when he did and is that misleading America. He and his dad got many privileges and that is what he expects; those to be honored. Of course, someone had to be there to make all this happen. Someone maybe like Plame who wants to move up or run in politics. Her and Hillary get along fine now.

[Clarice]

Thanks, Mustang. One day we'll talk about the Ukraina hotel. Or live in Riga.HEH

[JeanD]

Other recent nominees received virtual media colonoscopies of their lives, yet this candidate was asked nothing, and provided no information whatsoever. He was "born" at the 2004 Democratic Convention, and the few details that we are supposed to rely upon all came from his self-inoculating autobiography. Who feels a need to write an autobiography at that age, and with no noteworthy accomplishments to recount?

The media was satisfied with a "note from his doctor" and their own judgment that this was the most brilliant guy ever to grace us with his sacrifice in running for office. Legislative record, nil. Notes or journals about his legislative record, missing.

When someone apparently has no identifiable childhood/college friends or girlfriends, no school records, no observable three-dimensional existence, and wants to be the President, I guess I can understand the "birthers" and their concerns.

I also don't doubt that the media and the Administration love every opportunity to scream "paranoid" at anyone who expresses legitimate uneasiness at the information void they have created.

[Clarice]

**liFe in Riga**

[BB Key]

Girl Gap
I read a review of David Remick's The Bridge and the writer was astounded that someone could write that much about Honest Ob and not interview any of his girl friends

[nathan hale]

I honestly don't how someone could go through
that book and not get diabetes, it's so syrupy
the Surgeon Journal should have banned it.

[MarkO]

This all feels a little Tiger Woodsy. Will everything spill out once something does. No girlfriend?

[Mike G in Corvallis]

I still think the name he was given at birth was Barry Stanley Obama (or possibly Barry Stanley Dunham if his mother had already found out that her "husband" already had another wife in Kenya). Obama has built up a persona, and he doesn't want to lose his "authenticity."

And the transcripts? I suspect that Dreams from My Father hints at the reason: Bill Ayers was one of the people he hung out with at Columbia.

[Wayne]

I am coming to the conclusion that there is no such thing as a birther, unless just asking questions makes one a conspiracy nut.

[theQuestion]

On Jan. 21, 2009 Obama signed executive order #13489 in regards to the National Archives (NARA) that looking into his past would be illegal. Therefore no one can look at his real birth certificate, school records, medical records including the results of his Public Aids Test in May 2006, when he went to Kenya, which he received that August.
What would it benefit his African Grandmother to lie about his mother coming there for a visit and couldn't leave due to her pregnancy? Under Sharia law what would happen to her if she was caught in a lie (or being a false witness)?
What if Frank Marshall Davis is his real father as he has his mother's chin, but Frank's earlobes (not Barak seniors) and Hair Line (not Barak Seniors).
Isn't it funny he looks more like Nikolai Yehzov?

[Tom Maguire]

As Cecil points out, the Constitution lets the states decide how the electors are chosen.

For some reason that Constitutional clause didn't sway me when I read it before lunch. A few corn chips later I am a changed man, but what I think I was thinking is that electors are not legally bound to a particular candidate; consequently, if states can't bind electors to a candidate I am not sure they can bar an elector from a candidate.

Upon further reflection I recall that some states do bind their electors to vote as advertised, but every election we get stories urging the abolition of the Electoral College and reminding us of the perils of runaway electors.

Posner, in this book I may or may not be able to link (p. 237), wonders whether state laws binding electors are even constitutional. I wonder whether a state law effectively barring an elector from voting for a certain person would be upheld.

[Clarice]

Have any more of those corn chips? It's been a hectic afternoon around here and I'm hungry.

[theQuestion]

To Tom at 3.53pm, if we abolished the Electoral College, which is still the fairest way to run an honest election. It means that Hilary would have been the nominee instead of President B.O., so ask those who want to abolish it if B.O. stole the election from Hilary? If they believe that Bush stole it from Al Gore.

[Janet]

Thanks for the link Peter. I hadn't read that in awhile. The dark haired, green eyed (or green flecks in eyes) lady that Obama dated for a year isn't highlighted. ???

[peter]

The Columbia transcripts wouldn't show whom he hung out with, but it would show courses not completed which might correspond with radical Weather activity.

[Neo]

I'm seriously beginning to doubt the power of the National Enquirer if they can't get a copy of Obama original birth certificate.

Afterall, Enquiring minds want to know

[noislamocommie]

What is at stake if we IGNORE this issue is that we will set up a legal precedent whereby Americans could be ruled by foreigners or those through dual citizenship who are not USA-allegiant. That's what the founders wanted to avoid. My understanding is that this bill was written with reference to NATURAL bORN CITIZEN.Had this not been done it could have been disasterous.The framers put a LOCK if you will on this branch of govt. that cannot be legislated by pirates in Congress. yes they were very smart.
They were very specific in what is required and Obama is a big fat usurper. NATURAL bORN CITIZEN is above mere citizenship.You are born into it not deemed it by PIRACY CONGRESS.
ONE MUST HAVE TWO CITIZEN PARENTS ON US SOIL AT BIRTH .
Therefore AZ. needs the birth certificates of both parents as well as his and then call in the press and say sir you do not fit the definition. Your father was a foreigner and never American citizen therefore Sir you are not eligible because of the definition of NBC. Case closed.oh yeah...then the SCOTUS MUST RULE....They can no longer "evade" as Justice Thomas just described during a recent hearing.

[Frau Fragezeichen]

How strange to know so much about the parents and so little about the child.

(I have posted this before) During the election period, I found a Chicago magazine article online about BO who was leaving a "non-black" girlfriend, with whom he had been sharing an apartment in Chicago, to head for Harvard. Later, when I tried to find the same article, it was gone, and I tried several times to dredge it up. Poof! Who was the live-in and who removed the article?

[Thomas Collins]

TM, I think once the state chooses the electors, they are free under the Constitution to vote for whomever they want. I don't think states can bind electors (I realize many lawyers disagree with this view of the structure of the Electoral College). If runaway electors decide the race and Congress doesn't like it, Congress can refuse to certify the results.

[Thomas Collins]

Trader Joe's whole grain pretzel sticks dipped in peanut butter is another good mid-afternoon pick-me-up. As for corn chips, if I have corn chips, I want hot salsa for a dip, and I want the corn chips salty (don't tell Mayor Bloomberg).

[MarkO]

It's like the lost years of Jesus.

[MayBee]

I don't think this bill should be seen as having anything to do with Obama.

There are very few constitutional requirements to be President, and no Americans should be criticized for looking for a mechanism to verify those qualifications.

Furthermore, the press makes a big deal about pushing for tax records, health records, and donor lists. None of those are Constitutional requirements.
There is no reason asking for a birth certificate should be a bad thing, nor should it be impossible for the people to try to find a way to see it be required.

[Clarice]

If the states cannot require that the electors prove it, can they require that all named candidates provide the proof to the Secretary of State before attaching the name to the ballot? I think so. If it cannot be proven there where else can that constitutional restriction be enforced? Surely the courts won't do it in the first instance.

Someone upthread said the natural born restrictions applies to Congressmen--not so. It is uniquely applicable to presidents IIRC.

[MayBee]

they require that all named candidates provide the proof to the Secretary of State before attaching the name to the ballot?

That seems possible to me (IANAL). After all, an individual's name goes on the ballot- the electors are not on the ballot.

[MayBee]

It just irks me that something which is eminently reasonable has to be belittled on behalf of Obama.

[OldTimer]

I refuse to be labeled by the Won's deceitful definition of his political adversaries.

If I ask a question about BHO's early records, passport history and scholastic documentation, I'm a "Birther"

If I ask a question about his unconstitutional power grabs and unparalleled deficit spending and taxation policies: I'm a "Seditionist"

If I ask a question about his far-left, "czar" appointments and Muslim-favoring foreign policy, I'm a "Conspiracy Nut"

If I ask a question about White House hints of discontinuing 'Don't Ask; Don't Tell', I'm a Homophobe.

If I ask a question about illegal immigration amnesty or incremental Islamic infiltration, I'm a "Racist"

The only thing most of us want from this administration is observance of the Constitutional rule of law and truth and transparency regarding the people's business. We receive none of this from the regime. The Tea Party has risen in recognition of this dire reality and is standing up in patriotic defiance to the lawlessness and corruption in Washington, DC.

When the shoe's on the other foot, however, even Hillary Clinton gets it:

HC: "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration you’re not patriotic. We should stand up and say, “We are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration!”___ Hillary Clinton, April 28, 2003

[MayBee]

Bravo, OT.
Also, you must state you know him to be a Christian (Hillary got in trouble for only saying "as far as she knows" he's Christian)
AND you cannot use his middle name- only he can.

[MarkO]

He is a liar, however.

[Bill in AZ]

Now that Janet Incompetano is destroying the whole country at the federal level instead of just destroying Arizona, AZ has passed a number of laws that are making lib heads explode.

Concealed Carry without a permit (joining Alaska and Vermont)

Guns manufactured in state exempt from federal restrictions (joining Montana and some other state, forget which)

An illegal immigration law with some teeth in it (not signed yet) that will serve to push the illegals to CA, OR, and WA where they are happy to go bankrupt supporting them.

And now the "birther" law.

Maybe we'll secede before this session is over.

[rse]

Have we talked about how it is that Stanley manages to enroll and apparently attend UWash classes starting about 2 weeks after the date Bo lists for his birth?

I've always thought that missing Wash year in the narrative which apparently is demonstrably true was the great Cashill catch (after Ayers).

[Janet]

Good for Arizona, Bill. Now we need some states to say "Our citizens can eat whatever they d#%n well want, and light their homes with any light bulb they want. They are also free to drill oil wells on their property if they so choose."

[Porchlight]

I doubt that it's illegitimacy because that would make a great talking point to win him more sympathizers and admirers

Sorry if this was already discussed, but don't we know for a fact that he is illegitimate? I thought it was not disputed that his father was already married to another woman in Kenya when he "married" Stanley Ann in Hawaii.

In Dreams from My Father he says something about not wanting to look too deeply into the murky circumstances surrounding his birth. Yeah, pretty much.

[Janet]

LUN is an overview of Stanley Ann Dunham

[JM Hanes]

While the entire Republican establishment were falling all over themselves to disavow the birthers, they completely ignored the monumental question of who has the standing to challenge a presidential candidate's bona fides in a timely manner, and in what venue? No one, nowhere, it seems, since, as a practical & political matter, it's clearly too late to do so by the time the Electoral College convenes. If the Arizona measure offers legal clarification on this point, I'm for it.

Janet:

"Well the Senate voted on John McCain's eligibility didn't they?"

My inner conspiracy theorist always suspected that the whole McCain issue was drummed up as a pretext for pushing to declare Obama a natural born citizen, in a sort of turn-about is fair play maneuver intended to cut further inquiry off at the pass by Congressional fiat.

[Airedale]

I haven't read the bill but it wouldn't have to affect the electors at all. Just put in a simple requirement that in order to appear on the ballot in that state you have to prove to the satisfaction of the Secretary of State who has to certify eligibility before your name can appear on the state ballot. A party of course could put up a straw man since electors can vote for who they want unless otherwise limited by state law.

[Jane says obamasucks]

Porch,

How is the munchkin? I woke up thinking about you this morning - glad to see you here.

[jt007]

I don't understand Tom's argument. Despite the fact that electors elect the president and Congress has the authority to enforce the 12th Amendment, this bill merely states that a candidate cannot get on the ballot in Arizona unless he/she provides evidence of eligibility. I am not sure how the Constitution precludes a state from establishing such a requirement. It may not have much of an effect politically given that Obama is the sitting president and surely Democrats would know enough to write in his name on the ballot. However, I don't think that the legal issues cited by Tom could result in this law being unconstitutional.

Next, I suppose people could search State Department records from 1961 to see whether there is a record of Stanley Dunham leaving the country and returning after Obama's reported birth. If those records cannot be found, is that "proof" that Obama was born in the US, a suggestion of incomplete paperwork, or a hint that Rahm Emmanuel is now doing what needs to be done?

I don't think will happen. Call me a conspiracy theorist but does anyone remember the security breach of State Department passport records in 2008. Obama, apparently along with Hillary and McCain, had his passport records accessed and the media blamed it on the corrupt Bush Administration. However, it turned out that the illegal access was committed by an outside contractor to the State Department. The guy who owned that contractor is now an Obama political appointee in the White House. I read an article where a retired CIA guy said that accessing all three records was likely an attempt to scrub the access to Obama's file which was the real target. Whatever there was prior to the breach isn't there anymore. The information that would explain his trip to Pakistan in the early 80's has been erased. I know that sounds conspiratorial but, after all, Sandy Berger went into the National Archives and destroyed intelligence records to prevent scrutiny from the 9/11 commission. The media didn't even cover it and the DOJ bureaucrats gave him a slap on the wrist. It is very possible that Obama's State Department records were doctored. Democrats don't have the slightest compunction about violating the law and they know that they will never be taken to task for it.

[bgates]

surely Democrats would know enough to write in his name on the ballot

Would they know enough to spell it correctly? It's not unknown for ballots to be tossed on technicalities.

[Clarice]

One of the guys working for that contractor when the breach occurred was mysteriously shot dead in downtown DC and the crime remains unsolved. (Maestro--theme from the Twilight Zone, please.)

[Porchlight]

Doing great, Jane, thanks. He is easy as can be - sleeps a lot and is chill and/or snuggly the rest of the time. We are really fortunate.

And in seemingly unrelated news, the peach tree outside our house is laden with dozens of little green fruit, after not bearing more than four peaches in the past seven years. A good omen!

[theQuestion]

Someone wrote about A state might secede. If that happens President B.O. might have some precedence and do the same thing that President James Buchanan did with Utah with Governor Brigham Young and replace him with a handpicked non-mormon Alfred Cumming. In another sense at Abraham Lincoln did understand about "States Rights". But Buchanan was a Democrat and Lincoln was a Republican and we know that Republicans have to adhere to a different standard than a Democrat.
Also, If no one new President James Buchanan was our first Gay President. His companion was William Rufus King to whom he was Vice President under Franklin Pierce. Former President Andy Jackson use to refer to them as "Miss Nancy" and "Aunt Fancy". Buchanan's adopted neice, Harriet Lane, became known as the very first "First Lady". For further reading, see the letter Buchanan wrote to a Mrs. Roosevelt in May 1844.

[Strawman Cometh]

Since you asked, it would not be so simple a matter to push this aside by putting me as a candidate. Look. So, as the candidate, you can give up your birth certificate or run a campaign for a proxy on the ballot and tell your supporters to vote for me. Even (some of) the blue koole-aide drinkers will pause to consider before taking another swallow. And he would not get my electors in any case. This really could force the issue.

And as for his girlfriends, not that there's anything wrong with that.

[cboldt]

See ARS 16-242

A. A person seeking nomination as a candidate for the office of president of the United States shall sign and cause to be filed with the secretary of state a nomination paper ...

D. Within seventy-two hours after the close of filing the secretary of state shall certify to the officer in charge of elections the names of the candidates who are qualified for the presidential preference election ballot.

Now, somehow the AZ Secretary of State has to make a determination as to qualifications. Ouija Board?

[Clarice]

cboldt, is this unique to Arizona? Somewhere in the back of my mind there are similar rules elsewhere.

[cboldt]

That statute is AZ, I didn't check any others. I checked AZ because the AZ Secretary of State said that it was improper for the State to "set" parameters for qualification. I perused the AZ statutes, and found that the AZ Sec. of State is obliged to certify the names as being qualified for the presidential preference election ballot.

Some states obviously don't have any mechanism for blocking names, as unqualified candidate names have appeared on ballots. Not a deal in the legal scheme of things, as the people vote for electors, and it's up to Congress to ultimately determine qualifications of the person obtaining a majority of electoral votes.