Shadowboxing On Health Care Reform

The a new CBS/NYTimes poll is out that may have been commissioned by Nancy Pelosi and the DNC.

The focus of the poll is on the Tea Party.  However, questions 55-57 plumb public perceptions of health care reform.  Here we go:

55. As long as the federal government provides financial help to those who cannot afford health insurance, do you think the federal government should or should not require all Americans to have health insurance?

('Should' beats 'Should not' by 49-45 among the public a large)

56. Do you think it is a good idea or a bad idea to raise income taxes on households that make more than $250,000 a year in order to help provide health insurance for people who do not already have it?

('Good idea' prevails over 'bad idea' by 54-39)

57. Do you approve or disapprove of requiring health insurance companies to cover anyone who applies for health insurance regardless of whether or not they have an existing medical condition or a prior illness?

('Approve' is a winner by 81-15).

So now we know - just as Pelosi, Reid, Obama, and every Democrat with access to DNC talking points has been saying, parts of the new health bill are popular.

The Times does not risk making news

by including poll questions such as, "On balance, do you support the new bill or favor repeal?".  Nor does it risk vexing Dems with questions such as "When Obama says his health reform bill will reduce budget deficits, do you fall down laughing or just roll your eyes?".

And questions such as "If you work for a company with less than a hundred employees, do you seriously believe you will be able to keep your current coverage?" might be too complicated.

Instead, the Times tells us what we already knew - after laboring for a year, Democrats managed to produce a bill some parts of which have public appeal.  The most direct evidence as to the overall popularity of the package comes in the news that the public disapproves of Obama's handling of healthcare by 41-51 (Question 7).

We look forward to their poll on the popularity of vanilla-frosted dandelions, but I am already confident the vanilla frosting will poll well.

Comments

[Pinchy]

Do you support raising taxes on anyone who makes more than you and in return you will receive some imaginary benefits?

[hit and run]

No offense to vanilla frosting lovers, but I'd rather have http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/food/views/Sauteed-Dandelion-Greens-242014>the dandelions.

[bgates]

I think car rental companies should be required to lose money by subsidizing health insurance for the sick.

Also, the government should not stop raising taxes until poverty is eliminated.

[Danube of Thought]

Question 112: Do you believe the New York Times in its entirety should be made available online free for people earning less than $250,000 per year?

[BB Key]

First Lady goes to Mexico and proclaims it is safe to go to Mexico ....

Did the WH tell us she was going to Mexico .....

TM uncovers the motive to distract the press with the phantom soccer game....

[MarkO]

Who cares where she goes? She is more in charge of Bill than State.

[bgates]

Do you believe the New York Times in its entirety should be made available online free

There's a Constitutional right to a free press.

Also, I support a Constitutional amendment to make everything people want affordable. By increasing taxes.

[anduril]

: "Obama is the loyal son of a left-wing anthropologist mother who sought to expiate her white guilt by going to bed with Muslim Third World men." -Goldman-

Anduril'

You're not gonna earn any psychic shekels here when you go against the grain of the impoverished locals. Israel is sacrosanct, without sin, and God's chosen people.

Posted by: Stinks like most cheeses | April 14, 2010 at 08:48 PM

Psychic shekels, eh? Bizarro.

Goldman, truth be told, has always opposed the Neocon pipedream of spreading democracy in Muslim lands. He's totally wacked in his own way, of course, but sees at least a few things.

Here's a provocative excerpt from his Silent Right: How Jewish conservatives blew it on Iraq and Iran:

Unlike the neoconservatives, who persuaded themselves that the warring tribes of a country invented by British cartographers would embrace U.S.-style democracy and become strong enough to repel the political advances of their powerful neighbor, the so-called realists prepared to accommodate Iranian hegemony over what U.S. strategists had once hopefully called the Arabian Gulf. In 2004, Robert Gates, now the secretary of Defense, and former Carter national security adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski chaired a Council on Foreign Relations panel on the future of Iran. They concluded:

From the perspective of U.S. interests, one particular issue area appears particularly ripe for U.S.-Iranian engagement: the future of Iraq and Afghanistan. The United States has a direct and compelling interest in ensuring both countries’ security and the success of their post-conflict governments. Iran has demonstrated its ability and readiness to use its influence constructively in these two countries, but also its capacity for making trouble. The United States should work with Tehran to capitalize on Iran’s influence to advance the stability and consolidation of its neighbors.

Gates and Brzezinski also showed understanding for Iran’s drive to acquire nuclear weapons: “Given its history and its turbulent neighborhood, Iran’s nuclear ambitions do not reflect a wholly irrational set of strategic calculations.”

This is the context in which to understand recent remarks by Mullen and Petraeus—professional soldiers handed a miserable mission by civilian authorities inspired by delusional democracy-promoting public intellectuals. They understand as well as Gates and Brzezinski did in 2004 that, given the U.S. posture in Iraq and Afghanistan, a nuclear Iran is the American exit strategy. An attack on Iran’s nuclear installations would tear down the whole Potemkin village of supposed democratization and lead to “unforeseen consequences.” The civilian leadership does not want these consequences; the public intellectuals have not begun to consider them; and in any case these consequences would lead to American casualties and ruin prominent reputations. It might be better for the world to take out Iran’s nuclear capability now—most Americans and most Israelis have told pollsters they think so—but it would not necessarily be better for Mullen.

[nathan hale]

Given they had a nuclear program before the revolution, with the Bushehr reactor, that doesn't really click. Gates and Brezinski were almost wrong from the start, they fumbled the transition from the Shah, which led to Khomeini,played the Iraq card against Iran, relying on former Savak like Oveissi, brokered the deal with Saudi General Intell and the ISI for the Mujahadeen pipeline which favored Hekmatyar, Raisul Sayyaf, Mullah
Khalis (the father of the Taliban) what is
there great wisdom again

[Danube of Thought]

Having immediately spotted the post above this one as unmistakably the work product of Anduril, I scrolled--and scrolled, and scrolled--to the end as quickly as possible.

It is unimaginable to me that anyone here reads these lunacies of his, but I wonder if he thinks we do. A boorish, long-winded and inconsiderate fool. Stifle yourself, Anduril.

[Sue]

DoT,

That's what I do, SOB. Which is scroll on by for those who think I'm calling people names.

Okay. I want someone to ask these people who support insurance for pre-existing conditions if they think homeowner's insurance should be included. And car insurance. And while we are at it, life insurance. Why should I pay for years for life insurance when I only need when I die?

[nathan hale]

Btw, it turns out the CSU contract was stolen from a locked office, is this 'plumber course' they are teaching there

Also, it seems the brain slug eventually destroys all consciousness as Charles Fried
'concerned concervative' turned Obama voter, dismisses the premise of any lawsuit against
the health care leviathan

[Sue]

Or disability insurance. I don't need Aflac until I need it, right? What about long term care insurance? Shouldn't I be able to purchase a policy now that I need it for my mother in law? I didn't need it last year. She wasn't in the nursing home then. Come on. Why stop at health insurance? All insurance should be purchased only when you need it. I would be willing to pay the fine if that's needed. $750 or even $2500 is cheaper than what it is costing us to keep m-i-l in the nursing home.

[Danube of Thought]

Let's face it, Sue: in the field of healthcare, "insurance" has long since become detached from anything remotely related to what has historically been understood to be insurance.

[Sue]

As long as the federal government provides financial help to those who cannot afford health insurance, do you think the federal government should or should not require all Americans to have health insurance?

How do they always manage to poll those in the 47% that don't pay taxes? Where do these people think the federal government gets their money to provide financial help?

[anduril]

Having immediately spotted the post above this one as unmistakably the work product of Anduril, I scrolled--and scrolled, and scrolled--to the end as quickly as possible.

It is unimaginable to me that anyone here reads these lunacies of his, but I wonder if he thinks we do. A boorish, long-winded and inconsiderate fool. Stifle yourself, Anduril.

Posted by: Danube of Thought | April 14, 2010 at 10:29 PM

LOL!

[bgates]

Why should I pay for years for life insurance when I only need when I die?

That's exactly the kind of problem we need my Constitutional amendment for, Sue. I think it should read something like this:

"Be it here resolved, that stuff shouldn't cost so much that it's not affordable for everybody. Also, taxes should be higher."

I like your mechanism of paying for things only when they are needed. Like people pay a lot for cars, even though they sit idle for hours at a time. That's not fair. Imagine how much cheaper it would be if the car companies could only charge based on how much time we thought we would spend driving. There could be some kind of cost-per-mile or per-hour set by a National Price Czar. Or maybe the President could name State Price Czars, because federalism is important.

[Pofarmer]

Btw, it turns out the CSU contract was stolen from a locked office, is this 'plumber course' they are teaching there

Link? Link? Link?

[Sue]

The game of Life should be a requirement in school.

You know what makes me even crazier? People coming in wanting to keep the "government" from getting "mama's" money. The government? It's not the government. It's the nursing home. To take care of mama. What you don't want to do is use mama's money to take care of mama. You want to use my money to take care of mama so you can keep mama's money.

Yes. I'm jaded.

[anduril]

I do like this pic:

I can't figure if he's trying to be funny or what.

[nathan hale]

It's an MSNBC piece that they hid, down in the memory well

[Clarice]

Met with Jane, Caro, Soylent, Janet and C.O. for dinner. Had lot of fun..

Girding our loins for the big do tomorrow.

Carry on.

I find the single finger SOB works bet..less stressful on the wrist..

[Sue]

bgates,

Works for me. Except for the internet. I don't think I could afford it if they charged me for usage. ::grin::

Night all! Happy end of tax season. Go Tea Partiers! Wish I could be with you tomorrow. I'm there in spirit!

[anduril]

That Drudge teaser turns out to have been not so accurate. But there's also a little quote from Condie Rice. First the paragraph that contributed to the Drudge teaser--but note that it's not a quote--then the Condie quote:

When Mr. Obama declared that resolving the long-running Middle East dispute was a “vital national security interest of the United States,” he was highlighting a change that has resulted from a lengthy debate among his top officials over how best to balance support for Israel against other American interests.

...

The glimmers of daylight between United States and Israeli interests began during President George W. Bush’s administration, when the United States became mired in wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Three years ago, Condoleezza Rice, then secretary of state, declared during a speech in Jerusalem that a peace deal between Israel and the Palestinians was a “strategic interest” of the United States. In comments that drew little notice at the time, she said, “The prolonged experience of deprivation and humiliation can radicalize even normal people.”

[Sue]

Who is C.O.? I'm blank...no nasty comments, I'm hanging around for the answer.

[Pagar]

Link to the Palin Contract Theft.
I commented this morning that the story they were telling made no sense.

[nathan hale]

THe article doesn't get any better after that, in fact the argument for a tilt toward
the Palestinians, and the Salafi makes very little sense

[matt]

great to hear you're all out there..regards to you all and good luck tomorrow. Will be at Santa Ana or Laguna Hills myself.

The whole Israel situation is going to blow up sooner rather than later. With Obama's comments, Hillary's and a complete lack of progress or even empathy, there is simply nothing further that will be accomplished for the time being.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, Hezbollah has just destabilized the situation with Syrian Scuds, the Iranians are laughing at the Israelis, and Obumbles has gotten exactly zero from China and Russia, Iran's most significant enablers.

The Israelis in the meantime are warning their citizens to evacuate from Sinai in the face of an obscure threat.

Tell me how this ends?

[Dstersuite]

Plame was a real good spy.

[nathan hale]

This isn't reassuring either, in the LUN

[RichatUF]

matt-

In tears. Didn't the Clinton Administration do just about everything that the Obama Administration is attempting? And got nothing.

The Iranians are going to have to get started with their wave of terrorism soon because the internal repression seems to have squelched the upraising.

In re: Kappes. I wonder if he may have had a hand in bringing on that Jordanian that blew himself up at the CIA outpost. I'm trying to remember when it was that the KGB began working to destabalize the CIA in Central and South America (it started a year or so into the Carter Administration) and wonder if the Iranians have something similiar planned for the US in the MENA and Europe.

Interesting times. At least we have Obamacare-can't let a crisis go to waste.

[DrJ]

Who is C.O.?

Old Lurker.

[nathan hale]

Well that was more the doing of the GID officer, who always are so knowing in the novels of Ignatius and Fesperman; turns out
they didn't have a clue, But from Susskind's tale of the tape, many of the supposed victories in the early part of the war on terror, like Ibn Shaik al Libi, came from liason services like the Libyan Mukharabate, so no real verifiable sources. Goss was proactive, no wonder Kappes and Sulick didn't want him around

[Ignatz]

--the internal repression seems to have squelched the upraising--

Rich,

Michael Ledeen seems to indicate all that has been squelched is the coverage of the uprising. Perhaps it has entered a more violent and less open phase?

[Jim Ryan]

Do you support raising taxes on anyone who makes more than you and in return you will receive some imaginary benefits?

Hmm...I'll take it!

[nathan hale]

It's what Alexander Tyler, Cicero and De Tocqueville have also said about how the public purse corrupts republics

[RichatUF]

Ignatz-

I hope he's right.

[Mike Huggins]

Well, this new Michael Ledeen posting doesn't presage a warm and restful sleep tonight, and we're not talkin' the Robert Frost "what will trouble this sleep of mine" kind of thing either. Is this what it was like in August 1939 knowing the world was about to burn and not being able to do anything about it?

[w]

Do you approve or disapprove of requiring health insurance companies to cover anyone who applies for health insurance regardless of whether or not they have an existing medical condition or a prior illness even if it causes your insurance to double in cost or your insurance company to go bankrupt?

[glasater]

Terrible OT....but...

Oh Dear!

Overdue Payments Soaring In China Especially For Industries Benefiting from Stimulus

There's more at China Daily at the bottom of the article.

[rse]

The NYT alert last night proclaimed its poll showed that Tea Party anger is rooted in issues of class.

Tea Partiers are mad because the feds are doing more for the poor than the middle class or rich.

Hello?!!

They're mad because the feds are intervening in EVERYTHING. Stop, not give me my share too.

Leave it to the NYT to make it an issue about greed over wanting more of the largesse.

[peter]

Having immediately spotted the post above this one as unmistakably the work product of Anduril, I scrolled--and scrolled, and scrolled--to the end as quickly as possible.

Me too!

[Neo]

“The success in bailing out the system on the previous occasion led to a superbubble, except that in 2008 we used the same methods,” he [George Soros] told a meeting hosted by The Economist at the City of London’s modern and impressive Haberdashers’ Hall.

“Unless we learn the lessons, that markets are inherently unstable and that stability needs to the objective of public policy, we are facing a yet larger bubble.

“We have added to the leverage by replacing private credit with sovereign credit and increasing national debt by a significant amount.”

Funny this is pretty much the same message that the Tea Partiers have been sending.

[sylvia]

Why shouldn't the Dems have a poll because the health insurance lobby has been putting out tainted twisted polls forever? And you admit if parts of the bill are popular, what parts are unpopular? Doesn't seem to be much is actually unpopular, as I haven't heard many specifics on that, just a lot of vague conplaints about a whole lot of nothing.

Some of the vagueries are things such as the bills going up, when no one (none of the critics) has put together a credible listing of how much the bill will go up, and when the CBO is saying it will go down for the majority. So that's why it is a lot of propaganda from the right.

If the right were really concerned about the cost, someone would put together a study and give us facts, and tell us the specific cost, but they haven't done it because they know it will hurt their propaganda cause.

[BobDenver]

Must . . . resist . . . temptation . . . to . . . respond.

[nathan hale]

The AP slug, yesterday, that the government says that Iran won't have a 'usable' bomb for two or three years, whatever that means. Well that's totally different sarc

[Jane]

Well guys I continue to see that there is really nothing better than putting face to name of a JOMer. We had a wonderful time last night once Cara and I found the place. Clarice was a spectacular host as you would expect, and I got to meet Soylent and OL - and see Janet again.

Oh and we talked about all of you- well not sylvia but the rest.

It was as always, like coming home. Maybe even better than meeting Scott Brown - and that was like Christmas. Happy Tax Day everyone!

[Melinda Romanoff]

Jane-

Jealous I can't be there. Kudos on the interview lock on Sen. Brown.

Back to the "files"....

[centralcal]

Cool Jane. I am so jealous! Tell C.O. I said hello. During the emailing back and forth over the sudden, unexpected loss of PeterUK, I guessed at what C. O. was an abbreviation of. Gave him quite the chuckle and he quickly let me know I was mistaken. I just new we had a "famous" name posting here. Well, he is still rather famous among us, even if he isn't the fella I thought he might be. lol.

[centralcal]

oops - new = knew.

[rse]

LUN is a story on how Obamacare eliminates the public charge doctrine so that amnesty will make immigrants immediately eligible for health care benefits.

They buried it deep but the Dems need immigration "reform" to get 10.8 million new voters looking to them for healthcare.

[Old Lurker]

Boy, did Soy and I have our hands full with those three JOM babes last night...and at a nice little tavern in Georgetown at that. Of course coming straight from their meeting with Scott Brown, Jane and Caro probably felt like they were slumming with Soy and me. Any JOM guy should accept any opportunity to meet any of our JOM ladies. Seriously.

I second what Jane said. It is true that by the time we meet face to face, it is like meeting people you have known forever. Previous admonitions about the dangers of internet meetings can be relaxed for JOMers.

Even better if the meeting is in DC, Mother Clarice assumes it is her personal responsibility to pick up the tab for all of us. Do you think TM gives her a generous expense account?

What a wonderful group!

PS, yes Sue, DrJ was right about my actual name. It's a southern thing...we use initials because it is easier to remember our names, and for our parents to keep us straight.

OL

[nathan hale]

Here is the clueless statement by General Cartwright I mentioned earlier, he's the one who says ballistic missiles are 'old hat' so we don't need missile defense either

[Pops]

""" As long as the federal government provides financial help to those who cannot afford health insurance, do you think the federal government should or should not require all Americans to have health insurance?""

This question gives a false premise. It should state...as long as the federal government , through loans from china....or from confiscating your money, ..or from borrowing from your chidren and grandchildren. The government has NO money it cannot do what the question states, it can only transfer funds, not 'provide' money.

[Jane]

My Meeting with Scott Brown:

BTW - I am changing the host at You Too so it will be a heck of a lot easier to comment and post ver soon.

[Janet]

What a great time last night! I am so out of my league, but all the JOMers are wonderful. Thank you so much Clarice.

I've been busy making one more sign this morning...h/t Clarice...
"I Pray No Washington Post Writer Tries To Knock My Teeth Out"
LOL!!

[BobDenver]

Has anyone yet commented on Argentina seizing private pension assets?

[RJ]

As always Clarice: you're the hostess with the mostest. Thanks again for dinner.

And it was terrific meeting all of you other bitter clinging racist haters, and putting a face with a name. Now I'll be able to recognize you when they send us all off to the re-education camps.

[Neo]

Poll Finds Tea Party Backers Wealthier and More Educated

Define their definition of “Backers” … people who support the effort more than others.
Well Duh.
Since when has any effort, name one, been “Backed” or supported by the poor or poorer using this definition.

It’s sort of like waking up one day and realizing that people with money .. donate.

... and newspapermen tend to write more news stories.

[Ranger]

This story may seem off topic, but it is related, trust me. http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=YWIzYjFlZGRmNmUwYmQxZTA5NDMwY2MwZGM3YmIxMTU=>Mark Steyn has a post up at the corner about a 61 year old man who was taken to court for owning an "offinsive weapon," said weapon being a Swiss Army pocket knife.

His real crime appears to have been not driving drunk when the police suspected he was, and being indignant to the police when they stopped him for driving drunk when he wasn't.

You see, since they banned handguns in the UK, knife attacks have gone up dramaticly. The government's response was to outlaw carrying knives too. Of course when the law was proposed, and people complaind that lots of people carry knives for very legitimate reasons, those in power assured everyone that old people carry a knife to cut fruit would never be haulded into court. "Common sense" would prevent that kind of abuse of the law. But, of course, all bets are off if you piss off the wrong cop and the wrong prosecutor.

It leads one to wonder how all the new power given to government under this new HCR regime will be used against us in the future.

[Sue]

Mike H,

Maybe they are expecting a return strike?

[Janet]

That is exactly the problem Ranger...the "well they wouldn't do THAT" reasoning is a lie. They WILL do THAT and more.
It is the same with the whole push to redefine marriage. Once redefined, it can become anything.

[MayBee]

Oh, how fun it would have been to be with you all last night. Maybe Jane brought a little cardboard cutout of me to sit at the table?

[MayBee]

Hopefully, she didn't bring one of my nude portraits to the restaurant.

[Clarice]

She did bring one nude but didn't say who it was. Why not post yours, MayBee, so I can see if it was the same one?

[MayBee]

Ha ha ha ha ha!

[Old Lurker]

"Hopefully, she didn't bring one of my nude portraits to the restaurant."

Perhaps. I wish you had moved your hands a little to the left.

[MayBee]

Jane and Caro- I am so thrilled for you about Scott Brown. So exciting!!

[Manuel Transmission]

Good luck all you awesome JOMers in DC. Mrs. M/T is really pissed that I am still in the Inner Mongolian outback instead of flying her back to join the gang.

OL is correct that hanging out with the JOM ladies is really somethin' to be savored.

Remember: Czars Czuk!

[Boatbuilder]

57 questions? Who the hell has the time or patience to answer a 57-question poll? (One for every state).

I know who. Hence the predictable results.

[Mike Huggins]

"Mike H, Maybe they are expecting a return strike?"

Sue, I was wondering that, too.